Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

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Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:04 am

Why are there so many near death experiences where people see Jesus, and no NDEs with Muhammad? I challenge anyone to find a serious one where the experiencer reports Muhammad. Here are some examples, and these prove Christianity to be correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVi1GAHrILI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbNVrtLwq4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_3H9O4LSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC0V5BkaP-Y

it also proves hell exists. If they were fake, why is it that whenever someone sees hell and calls out to Jesus that a white light appears and rescues them? Some also called out to Muhammad or other deities and got nothing. Doesn't this prove Jesus and hell?

Especially this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_3H9O4LSo

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:08 am

Kamil wrote:Why are there so many near death experiences where people see Jesus, and no NDEs with Muhammad?
That's a really really silly question. Where do Arabic speaking people post their NDE experiences in Arabic? Are you reading them in English or Arabic? :lol:

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:13 am

Kamil wrote:Here are some examples,
You cannot post a You tube link alone. You are obliged to set out the specific claim made in the you tube video and quote the evidence presented in the you tube video, with the relevant time code.

Many "woo" spammers come here, and simply post You tube" videos that they have never watched themselves and don't contain any evidence. Additionally no skeptic forum member watches you tube videos with out an accompanying post explaining what is in the video.

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:10 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:Why are there so many near death experiences where people see Jesus, and no NDEs with Muhammad?
That's a really really silly question. Where do Arabic speaking people post their NDE experiences in Arabic? Are you reading them in English or Arabic? :lol:

I actually did search in Arabic, google in Saudi Arabia and I used Farsi in google translate for google iran and i couldnt find Muhammad NDEs

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:23 am

Kamil wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:Why are there so many near death experiences where people see Jesus, and no NDEs with Muhammad?
That's a really really silly question. Where do Arabic speaking people post their NDE experiences in Arabic? Are you reading them in English or Arabic? :lol:

I actually did search in Arabic, google in Saudi Arabia and I used Farsi in google translate for google iran and i couldnt find Muhammad NDEs


Show us the Arabic words you used for your Google search? :lol:

Soooooo........there is no heaven in the Koran?

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:33 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:Why are there so many near death experiences where people see Jesus, and no NDEs with Muhammad?
That's a really really silly question. Where do Arabic speaking people post their NDE experiences in Arabic? Are you reading them in English or Arabic? :lol:

I actually did search in Arabic, google in Saudi Arabia and I used Farsi in google translate for google iran and i couldnt find Muhammad NDEs


Show us the Arabic words you used for your Google search? :lol:

Soooooo........there is no heaven in the Koran?

بالقرب من تجربة الموت محمد

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Poodle » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:33 am

Kamil wrote:... and these prove Christianity to be correct.

I think you may be having problems with the concept of 'proof'.

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:Why are there so many near death experiences where people see Jesus, and no NDEs with Muhammad?
That's a really really silly question. Where do Arabic speaking people post their NDE experiences in Arabic? Are you reading them in English or Arabic? :lol:

I actually did search in Arabic, google in Saudi Arabia and I used Farsi in google translate for google iran and i couldnt find Muhammad NDEs


Show us the Arabic words you used for your Google search? :lol:

Soooooo........there is no heaven in the Koran?


Matthew let me ask you this, if you found out there was not one recorded NDE ever, even in the Arabic speaking world where a person saw Muhammad, but there were many people in the west who saw Jesus, would you then believe Christianity is true?

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:39 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:Here are some examples,
You cannot post a You tube link alone. You are obliged to set out the specific claim made in the you tube video and quote the evidence presented in the you tube video, with the relevant time code.

Many "woo" spammers come here, and simply post You tube" videos that they have never watched themselves and don't contain any evidence. Additionally no skeptic forum member watches you tube videos with out an accompanying post explaining what is in the video.

one of the videos is about Howard Storm, an atheist who saw hell, and was rescued by Jesus, same with the last one, an atheist who saw hell, went to hell, called to Jesus, was rescued. Then one of them has 5 non Christians who met Jesus in an NDE

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:40 am

Kamil wrote:بالقرب من تجربة الموت محمد


Translation : "Near the death experience of Mohammed"

How sad for you. Allah is god in Islam. Are you saying no one, ever had a vision of Allah before dying? :lol:

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Gord » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:42 am

Kamil wrote:Matthew let me ask you this, if you found out there was not one recorded NDE ever, even in the Arabic speaking world where a person saw Muhammad, but there were many people in the west who saw Jesus, would you then believe Christianity is true?

Of course not, he's not an idiot. What people see when they hallucinate is effected by their cultural expectations. If no one in medieval England ever hallucinated a Chinese dragon, does that mean Chinese dragons are real? Obviously it does not.
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:43 am

Kamil wrote:..... if you found out there was not one recorded NDE ever, even in the Arabic speaking world where a person saw Muhammad, but there were many people in the west who saw Jesus, would you then believe Christianity is true?
No. Anecdotes are not evidence and NDEs & OBEs are already explained by science through experimentation as a normal psychological phenomena more than twenty years ago.

Do you believe Christians really see Jesus or God before croaking?
:D

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:44 am

Gord wrote:
Kamil wrote:Matthew let me ask you this, if you found out there was not one recorded NDE ever, even in the Arabic speaking world where a person saw Muhammad, but there were many people in the west who saw Jesus, would you then believe Christianity is true?

Of course not, he's not an idiot. What people see when they hallucinate is effected by their cultural expectations. If no one in medieval England ever hallucinated a Chinese dragon, does that mean Chinese dragons are real? Obviously it does not.

But if Muslims dream about Muhammad, why can't they see him in NDEs?

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:53 am

Kamil wrote: But if Muslims dream about Muhammad, Allah, why can't they see him in NDEs?


Tell me about dying people who had visions of Allah in the Koran.

Isn't it amazing that your search didn't come up with one hit.
:lol:

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby fablerede » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:00 am

Kamil wrote:Why are there so many near death experiences where people see Jesus, and no NDEs with Muhammad? I challenge anyone to find a serious one where the experiencer reports Muhammad. Here are some examples, and these prove Christianity to be correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVi1GAHrILI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbNVrtLwq4g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_3H9O4LSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC0V5BkaP-Y

it also proves hell exists. If they were fake, why is it that whenever someone sees hell and calls out to Jesus that a white light appears and rescues them? Some also called out to Muhammad or other deities and got nothing. Doesn't this prove Jesus and hell?

Especially this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_3H9O4LSo


they could be making up a story as a claim to fame -.-

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:05 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote: But if Muslims dream about Muhammad, Allah, why can't they see him in NDEs?


Tell me about dying people who had visions of Allah in the Koran.

Isn't it amazing that your search didn't come up with one hit.
:lol:


ok, find me one NDE where one meets Muhammad.

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:09 am

Kamil wrote: ok, find me one NDE where one meets Muhammad Allah.
You want me to find stories of dying people who see Allah in visions? :lol:

Will you quit the forum if I do that? :lol:

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Gord » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:35 am

Kamil wrote:
Gord wrote:
Kamil wrote:Matthew let me ask you this, if you found out there was not one recorded NDE ever, even in the Arabic speaking world where a person saw Muhammad, but there were many people in the west who saw Jesus, would you then believe Christianity is true?

Of course not, he's not an idiot. What people see when they hallucinate is effected by their cultural expectations. If no one in medieval England ever hallucinated a Chinese dragon, does that mean Chinese dragons are real? Obviously it does not.

But if Muslims dream about Muhammad, why can't they see him in NDEs?

Because they don't expect to.

Unlike trees, which do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHKjq_btiL4
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:40 am

Kamil wrote: But if Muslims dream about Muhammad, why can't they see him in NDEs?

It is amazing that you pretend to know arabic but seem totally unaware that it is haraam for Muslims to have any images of or mention visions of Mohammed.

Can you explain how you didn't know that?
:lol:

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:54 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote: But if Muslims dream about Muhammad, why can't they see him in NDEs?

It is amazing that you pretend to know arabic but seem totally unaware that it is haraam for Muslims to have any images of or mention visions of Mohammed.

Can you explain how you didn't know that?
:lol:

I don't know Arabic. I use Google translate. You asked me to show you what I used in Arabic and i showed you. Why do Muslims on forums then talk about having dreamt about Muhammad. If they can admit that, why couldn't they admit it in an NDE?

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:39 pm

Gord wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gord wrote:
Kamil wrote:Matthew let me ask you this, if you found out there was not one recorded NDE ever, even in the Arabic speaking world where a person saw Muhammad, but there were many people in the west who saw Jesus, would you then believe Christianity is true?

Of course not, he's not an idiot. What people see when they hallucinate is effected by their cultural expectations. If no one in medieval England ever hallucinated a Chinese dragon, does that mean Chinese dragons are real? Obviously it does not.

But if Muslims dream about Muhammad, why can't they see him in NDEs?

Because they don't expect to.

Unlike trees, which do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHKjq_btiL4

Some of my relatives are snake handlers. Two of them have died in the past ten years from not believing hard enough.

And none of them has ever had an NDE that featured Mooohamed.
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:51 pm

Kamil wrote:Why are there so many near death experiences where people see Jesus, and no NDEs with Muhammad? I challenge anyone to find a serious one where the experiencer reports Muhammad. Here are some examples, and these prove Christianity to be correct.

I read one woman's NDE, and she said that Jesus appeared to her "in the traditional way he is portrayed"...light brown hair and blue eyes. Clearly, her NDE was a culturally-based hallucination, since if Jesus existed, he would have been a Bronze Age Semite, not a pale-skinned Medieval European.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:14 pm

AFAIK, no one has seen a rerun of 'I Love Lucy' as an NDE, yet 'I Love Lucy' reruns certainly exist.
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:24 pm

Kamil wrote:...experiences where people see Jesus...and these prove Christianity to be correct....it also proves hell exists.
Do you understand that sensory experiences, when they are misperceived by the brain due to trauma, illness, or dysfunction, do not "prove" anything? Let's run through some examples:

1. Migraine Auras. I've had migraines since puberty. Auras vary and can involve any of the five senses. Mine have included the loss of peripheral vision, flashing lights, sparklers, moving shadows, hallucinations, and the complete loss of vision.

The most realistic hallucination happened at a friend's apartment in Boston. He was having a party, and I went down the stairs into the narrow alley behind the row of houses. In the tall grass near the building were tiny people dressed in purple. A few minutes later, they faded from view and someone hit me in the head with a sledgehammer. I ended up in the Beth Israel ER, the migraine pain was so severe.

Is my sensory experience proof that tiny people who wear purple live in the alleyways behind the Beacon Street row houses? Of course not. It's only proof that migraines disrupt the normal functioning of the CNS.

2. Hypnagogic Hallucinations. I experienced these too, caused by sleep deprivation resulting from alpha wave intrusion into delta sleep. Or do you think I was really visited by a bunch of human, humanoid, and non-human creatures, all of whom suddenly decided to stop visiting once my sleep disorder was treated?

3. Hallucinogenic Drugs. Ketamine is frequently used in trauma medicine. It has both sedative and pain relieving qualities without lowering the patient's blood pressure, heart rate, and respiration. It's also a hallucinogenic, and has been proven to cause the OBE-type of hallucinations reported by patients who describe NDEs.

4. Hypoxia and Anoxia. Reduced oxygen and a lack of oxygen to the brain both produce hallucinations. This was proven in a study of pilots who experienced G-LOC. The pilots' hallucinations had the same characteristics as NDEs, even though none was in a near-death situation.

There may be multiple causes of NDE hallucinations, not just one. But they are not visits to an afterlife. And none of what you present is even remotely proof of that.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:24 pm

LunaNik wrote:
Kamil wrote:...experiences where people see Jesus...and these prove Christianity to be correct....it also proves hell exists.
Do you understand that sensory experiences, when they are misperceived by the brain due to trauma, illness, or dysfunction, do not "prove" anything? Let's run through some examples:

1. Migraine Auras. I've had migraines since puberty. Auras vary and can involve any of the five senses. Mine have included the loss of peripheral vision, flashing lights, sparklers, moving shadows, hallucinations, and the complete loss of vision.

The most realistic hallucination happened at a friend's apartment in Boston. He was having a party, and I went down the stairs into the narrow alley behind the row of houses. In the tall grass near the building were tiny people dressed in purple. A few minutes later, they faded from view and someone hit me in the head with a sledgehammer. I ended up in the Beth Israel ER, the migraine pain was so severe.

Is my sensory experience proof that tiny people who wear purple live in the alleyways behind the Beacon Street row houses? Of course not. It's only proof that migraines disrupt the normal functioning of the CNS.

2. Hypnagogic Hallucinations. I experienced these too, caused by sleep deprivation resulting from alpha wave intrusion into delta sleep. Or do you think I was really visited by a bunch of human, humanoid, and non-human creatures, all of whom suddenly decided to stop visiting once my sleep disorder was treated?

3. Hallucinogenic Drugs. Ketamine is frequently used in trauma medicine. It has both sedative and pain relieving qualities without lowering the patient's blood pressure, heart rate, and respiration. It's also a hallucinogenic, and has been proven to cause the OBE-type of hallucinations reported by patients who describe NDEs.

4. Hypoxia and Anoxia. Reduced oxygen and a lack of oxygen to the brain both produce hallucinations. This was proven in a study of pilots who experienced G-LOC. The pilots' hallucinations had the same characteristics as NDEs, even though none was in a near-death situation.

There may be multiple causes of NDE hallucinations, not just one. But they are not visits to an afterlife. And none of what you present is even remotely proof of that.


Look at my previous post, I have sources which show that hypoxia, and oxygen loss do not cause NDEs, that's been debunked moons ago

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:08 am

Kamil wrote: I don't know Arabic. I use Google translate. You asked me to show you what I used in Arabic and i showed you.
You used this expression to look for Muslim NDEs.

"Near the death experience of Mohammed"

You would have received 2,000,000 hits concerning Medina, ( Where Mohammed died) as this is a fundamental event in the Koran. You claimed to have had no hits, so we know you are lying. Did you read every hit you did get?

Kamil wrote:Why do Muslims on forums then talk about having dreamt about Muhammad. If they can admit that, why couldn't they admit it in an NDE?
NDE is an English expression for a vision while dying. You didn't search for that did you?

How did Mohammed receive the five pillars of Islam from his vision of Allah in Mecca?

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:16 am

Kamil wrote: Look at my previous post, I have sources which show that hypoxia, and oxygen loss do not cause NDEs, that's been debunked moons ago
No you did not. You posted four you tubes in this thread and you were unable to state what any evidence from those you tube videos were.

You previously tried to claim Jeffrey Long's book which we debunked and you agreed was not evidence.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28275&p=583524#p583549

Meanwhile we informed you of normal scientific experiments, spanning 20 years that shows that people thinking they were having a NDE's are simply experiencing a normal psychological phenomena


Near-Death Experiences Explained by Science
https://www.livescience.com/16019-death ... ained.html

Why do you lie so much?

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:51 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote: Look at my previous post, I have sources which show that hypoxia, and oxygen loss do not cause NDEs, that's been debunked moons ago
No you did not. You posted four you tubes in this thread and you were unable to state what any evidence from those you tube videos were.

You previously tried to claim Jeffrey Long's book which we debunked and you agreed was not evidence.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28275&p=583524#p583549

Meanwhile we informed you of normal scientific experiments, spanning 20 years that shows that people thinking they were having a NDE's are simply experiencing a normal psychological phenomena


Near-Death Experiences Explained by Science
https://www.livescience.com/16019-death ... ained.html

Why do you lie so much?

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:51 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote: Look at my previous post, I have sources which show that hypoxia, and oxygen loss do not cause NDEs, that's been debunked moons ago
No you did not. You posted four you tubes in this thread and you were unable to state what any evidence from those you tube videos were.

You previously tried to claim Jeffrey Long's book which we debunked and you agreed was not evidence.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28275&p=583524#p583549

Meanwhile we informed you of normal scientific experiments, spanning 20 years that shows that people thinking they were having a NDE's are simply experiencing a normal psychological phenomena


Near-Death Experiences Explained by Science
https://www.livescience.com/16019-death ... ained.html

Why do you lie so much?

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:59 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote: Look at my previous post, I have sources which show that hypoxia, and oxygen loss do not cause NDEs, that's been debunked moons ago
No you did not. You posted four you tubes in this thread and you were unable to state what any evidence from those you tube videos were.

You previously tried to claim Jeffrey Long's book which we debunked and you agreed was not evidence.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28275&p=583524#p583549


Meanwhile we informed you of normal scientific experiments, spanning 20 years that shows that people thinking they were having a NDE's are simply experiencing a normal psychological phenomena


Near-Death Experiences Explained by Science
https://www.livescience.com/16019-death ... ained.html

Why do you lie so much?


I'm not lying. I'm not looking for an experience Muhammad had, I'm looking for NDErs who see Muhammad in their experiences. I have found NDEs of people meeting Jesus and actually talking to him, I am yet to find one of a person seeing Muhammad or having a conversation with him. Even if it does exist, it doesn't seem to be published online. Many of these Christian YouTube channels use this and say the fact that Islamic people don't see Muhammad, but Christians sometimes have reported seeing Jesus proves Jesus is the real Son of God. Also the site you give for your proof NDEs are not real doesn't prove anything. Most of those theories don't even seem to hold any water. If 20 people have NDEs and 10 have oxygen deprivation, that could point to lack of oxygen being the cause of the NDE. However, if 10 also have regular levels of oxygen, it probably means oxygen loss is not the answer. Take that and the fact that the brain shows no activity when measured, and the fact that only about 1 in 1000 people have some sort of anesthesia awareness when they are out. How then, do almost 10 percent of cardiac arrest patients report seeing so clearly, and being able to almost verify what happens? Awaking during anesthesia is almost always unpleasant and doesn't make sense like an NDE according to Jeff Long. It just doesn't make sense that it's only a brain at work.

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:16 am

Kamil wrote:I'm not lying. I'm not looking for an experience Muhammad had,
Why would Mohammed have an NDE dream about Mohammad?

You were meant to be looking for a Muslim person having any sort of NDE and seeing Allah or Mohammad or any other Islamic saint, to prove your claim only Christian people have NDEs about Jesus and therefore Jesus is real.


Kamil wrote:Christians sometimes have reported seeing Jesus makes Jesus is the real Son of God.

Now that is absolutely hilarious. :D

So the dying little matchstick girl (Hans Christian Anderson) having visions of her mother, means her mother is "God"?


We are going to have heaps of fun with Hindus.
hindu vision.jpg
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:56 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:I'm not lying. I'm not looking for an experience Muhammad had,
Why would Mohammed have an NDE dream about Mohammad?

You were meant to be looking for a Muslim person having any sort of NDE and seeing Allah or Mohammad or any other Islamic saint, to prove your claim only Christian people have NDEs about Jesus and therefore Jesus is real.


Kamil wrote:Christians sometimes have reported seeing Jesus makes Jesus is the real Son of God.

Now that is absolutely hilarious. :D

So the dying little matchstick girl (Hans Christian Anderson) having visions of her mother, means her mother is "God"?


We are going to have heaps of fun with Hindus.hindu vision.jpg
you still haven't answered my other arugument

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:58 am

Kamil wrote:.... you still haven't answered my other arugument
What other argument? You agreed with me that Jeffrey Long had no evidence. :lol:

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Kamil » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:40 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:.... you still haven't answered my other arugument
What other argument? You agreed with me that Jeffrey Long had no evidence. :lol:

The oxygen theory is fake dude

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:48 am

Kamil wrote: The oxygen theory is fake dude
No Kamil. We have already been through that. You agreed Jeffrey Long's book was nonsense and you ran away when we presented the actual scientific experiments performed by scientists. You then made another hilarious claim that brain dead people could have NDEs but could not find one example to support your claim.

Summing Up.
You are an extremely religious Christian who made the incredibly stupid religious claim that only the Christian God is real because you only knew of Christians having NDEs and seeing Jesus.
:lol:
hindu vision.jpg

You simply didn't know about Hindus, Muslims and so on. :lol:

I suggest you relocate to a Christian forum as you are currently posting on a science based atheist forum..
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:37 pm

Kamil wrote:Look at my previous post, I have sources which show that hypoxia, and oxygen loss do not cause NDEs, that's been debunked moons ago

I didn't say they caused NDEs; I said, The pilots' hallucinations had the same characteristics as NDEs, even though none was in a near-death situation.

Individuals also have psychologic alterations in association with the G-LOC episodes, including embarrassment, euphoria, dissociation, anxiety, fear, antagonism, inability to concentrate, and a "give-up" or submission attitude. [sic] A sense of floating is one of the most frequently reported symptoms associated with G-LOC experiences. It is commonly associated with autoscopy, automatic movement, paralysis, a sense of dissociation, and being pleasurable enough to result in the individual not wanting to be disturbed. Overall, the majority of individuals consider the G-LOC experience not only pleasurable, but euphoric. Much less frequently, on the other hand, an occasional individual does find the experience to be disagreeable and frustrating.

Many of these psychologic alterations persist for several hours following the G-LOC episode, with the individuals indicating that they feel normal only following a subsequent period of sleep. This is particularly true for the feelings of detachment, dissociation, and the inability to concentrate. Although not a common occurrence, out-of-body experiences (OBEs) are reported in association with G-LOC episodes. These OBEs have been associated with longer G-LOC episodes and multiple, closely-spaced G-LOC episodes, as many as five within a 15-minute period. This may indicate that OBEs are more likely to occur with increasingly severe ischemic insults to the nervous system. One associated OBE, for example, occurred following multiple G-LOC episodes. The individual walking down a hallway immediately after a centrifuge exposure became aware not only that he was walking down the hallway, but also that
he was above and behind himself, watching his own body walking. The duality persisted for approximately three minutes before the experience ended with what was described as a reintegration process with his body.


It is clear that dreamlets are much more likely to occur and be memorable as the severity of the ischemic insult increases; there is a strong correlation between memorable dreamlets during G-LOC and the magnitude of the ischemia. The longer the absolute incapacitation period, the more likely it is that a dreamlet will be reported.

The dreamlets are vivid and frequently include family members and close friends. They commonly have beautiful settings and their content includes prior memories and thoughts of significance to the individual. We might describe the dreamlets as being very memorable, when they are remembered; they have a significant impact on individuals who experience them, and remain crystal clear for years after they occur. There is a very strong urge in most individuals to try to understand and explain what they experienced.

The major characteristics of G-LOC experiences that are shared in common with NDEs include tunnel vision and bright lights, floating sensations, automatic movement, autoscopy, out-of-body experiences, not wanting to be disturbed, paralysis, vivid dreamlets of beautiful places, pleasurable sensations, psychological alterations of euphoria and dissociation, inclusion of friends and family, inclusion of prior memories and thoughts, the experience being very memorable (when it can be remembered), confabulation, and a strong urge to understand the experience.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:51 pm

Kamil wrote:If 20 people have NDEs and 10 have oxygen deprivation, that could point to lack of oxygen being the cause of the NDE. However, if 10 also have regular levels of oxygen, it probably means oxygen loss is not the answer.
Oxygen loss is one answer. NDEs are caused by nervous system dysfunction, which can be prompted by any number of things, including anoxia, trauma, shock, hallucinogens, etc.

Kamil wrote:Take that and the fact that the brain shows no activity when measured.
EEGs do not measure deep brain activity, such as in the hippocampus and amygdala; they only measure surface cortical activity. An EEG can be completely flat while activity is spiking in the hippocampus and amygdala, and both brain regions can initiate complex hallucinations without involving the cerebral cortex. (Note: Lack of pupillary reaction is not indicative of a lack of activity in every region of the brain.)
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:16 am

LunaNik wrote:
Kamil wrote:Look at my previous post, I have sources which show that hypoxia, and oxygen loss do not cause NDEs, that's been debunked moons ago

I didn't say they caused NDEs; I said, The pilots' hallucinations had the same characteristics as NDEs, even though none was in a near-death situation.

I went looking for more information on this, but I couldn't find it.

Now, it's been stated that the symptoms of G-LOC include "rythmic jerking of the limbs, compromised memory of events just prior to the onset of unconsciousness, tingling of extremities" that are not observed during NDEs. But does this mean all cases of hypoxia include those extra symptoms? For example, when people die on the operating table, do their bodies tend to go into "rhythmic jerking of the limbs"? And don't all people undergoing surgery experience "compromised memory of events just prior to the onset of unconsciousness"? And why would anyone under anaesthesia experience "tingling of the extremities" when they aren't supposed to be able to feel anything at all?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Aztexan » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:35 am

I once had an NDE where I experienced the great Mohammed
I felt light, almost as if I was floating. Much like a butterfly. Then I felt a stinging sensation, almost as if being stung by a bee. My hands flailed wildly but could not hit anything and then I felt blind and could not see.That's when I knew.
{!#%@} trump!

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Re: Skeptics, proof Jesus is the truth, comments?

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:45 am

Mohammed Ali to the flight attendant: "Superman don't need no seatbelt."
The flight attendant to Mohammed Ali: "Superman don't need no plane."
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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