Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

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Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:15 pm

Do ndes show reincarnation?

https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67 ... no1-17.pdf

http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Su ... -21-31.pdf

http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Su ... 93-102.pdf

So do they really show an increase in reincarnation beliefs? Or are these studies flawed?

Method of subjects taking is definately a bit flawed for the Sutherland studies but I'm curious what others think cuz obviously I'm not the smartest in this. Is there a correlation between nde and people getting psychic from it? (Or is it just then going into spiritual practices and being deluded from it?

It's not a simple random sample. The one NDE person I know remains a strong Christian.

And they got it from a sample from the people who saw the writings. The other sample is 20 people, and out of the 14 not all of them super believed in it.

My main things are that, NDE seem to be really really varying. But the idea that people who experience nde become more psychic is strange. It could be interpretation of their experience instead of real spontaneous memory. Also nde may lead to their brains being messed up

Or interpretations of events like dreams

(For example, back when I was more stressed for the nde bs I thought that my dreams were spirit guides or something when I googled it. It was a result of clouded/false memory building stuff. In reality I realized I dreamt about Albert Einstein Or something lol. Also why are all past lives always like, not dying of old age or something?)
Last edited by Anthony on Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Are nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:47 pm

Apply your BS detector.
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Re: Are nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:24 pm

some nders have met souls preparing to reincarnate ...they have also seen kids playing matchmaker to get their future parents together..doesn't always work....some obers have seen their past lives...some died young, some in old age, some murdered...varies...
Last edited by gorgeous on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:33 pm

...and some are having quite colorful "experiences" without the help of any outside chemical "enhancement" - it's usually built in. Why don't you take your lithium, child.
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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:05 am

Anthony wrote:Do ndes show reincarnation?
///snipped for brevity///
or something?)

All of that is nonsense.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:19 am

you wish
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:23 am

Anthony wrote:Do ndes show reincarnation?
No

Scientist have already set out, twenty years ago, a hypothesis for why people think they are having a NDE. This hypothesis was tested and the result proved the hypothesis. The same experiment was then repeated numerous times with the same results.

We already know that NDEs and OBEs are a normal psychological phenomena.

Near-Death Experiences Explained by Science
https://www.livescience.com/16019-death ... ained.html

Write down a hypothesis for reincarnation
I want you to try write down a scientific hypothesis for reincarnation. You will quickly find that this is impossible as reincarnation does not make any sense. Reincarnation is a fictional narrative device from literature. It was never meant to make sense as a fact.
:D

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:26 am

Anthony wrote:The one NDE person I know remains a strong Christian.
So the person who belives in one form of bull-shit, also believes in another form of bull-shit.

What do you think that signifies, about that person?
:lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:34 am

ce---------Carl Sagan---------“There are claims in the parapsychology field which, in my opinion, deserve serious study,” with [one] being “that young children sometimes report details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation.” (source) (1)
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:39 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Anthony wrote:The one NDE person I know remains a strong Christian.
So the person who belives in one form of bull-shit, also believes in another form of bull-shit.

What do you think that signifies, about that person?
:lol:


Err, I meant this in a different way. Like, I get the brain explanations of nde and I do believe them in general, im just curious of post psychic claims and reincarnation beliefs post nde

Like for me I'm honest, I am a Christian yet I believe in evolution and science and I don't think not believing in our beliefs condemns someone to hell cuz that'd be a bit unfair obv. Also I'm not gonna argue for it because I know that I would get destroyed lol, I admit a lot of it is for comfort, I'd rather not discuss that tho.

Like why is it that these people believe in reincarnation more post nde? Like from what I read it comes mostly from either "perceived psychic visions" post nde, which is the thing I'm interested in. Is their brain just messed up after Nde?

Like I mentioned that because it's someone whose beliefs weren't changed like many say post nde. Like he sample in 2 studies r heavily biased, but the one on why they believe in reincarnation post nde is the one I'm focusing on, mostly psychic visions/claims post nde being a large reason

Like the claims of "psychic ability" post nde and those visions r what I'm asking about. Has his ever been studied before?

Also can someone show me how georgeous's claim just now can be broken apart? Just to kinda see how it works lol. (Breaking claims/evidence apart I mean)
Last edited by Anthony on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:40 am

gorgeous wrote:ce---------Carl Sagan---------“There are claims in the parapsychology field which, in my opinion, deserve serious study,” with [one] being “that young children sometimes report details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation.” (source) (1)
And when this skeptic review happened, Ian Stephenson's claims were totally debunked. Stephenson claimed birth marks on young children was evidence they reincarnated from people who suffered violent trauma. However 18 million people died of violent trauma in WWI and there was no increase in birthmarks. That ended that. :lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:43 am

Anthony wrote: Like the claims of "psychic ability" post nde and those visions r what I'm asking about. Has his ever been studied before?
Well Matt MVS7 , you are going around in circles again.

You ask "why do con artist mediums pretend to be mediums?" We have already explained this to you three times. They do it to make money..

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:43 am

you can't break truth ...ever...yes....money -evil....it's why mary has no income of course...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:45 am

gorgeous wrote:you wish

Never. Wishing is a waste of time, silly.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:46 am

gorgeous wrote:you can't break truth ...ever...yes....money -evil....it's why mary has no income of course...

We just debunked your claim, yet again. Bad luck Gorgeous. :lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:48 am

yessss....debunkers are always right...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:51 am

gorgeous wrote:yessss....debunkers are always right...
That's right! :D

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:33 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Anthony wrote: Like the claims of "psychic ability" post nde and those visions r what I'm asking about. Has his ever been studied before?
Well Matt MVS7 , you are going around in circles again.

You ask "why do con artist mediums pretend to be mediums?" We have already explained this to you three times. They do it to make money..


sorry if I'm being annoying lol. I'm not going in this as a wooist person trying to proof woo right don't worry. I genuinely want this stuff debunked more.

http://www.newdualism.org/nde-papers/Su ... 93-102.pdf

Like I think we are talking about 2 different things. I get it, of course con artists mediums would lie about it for money.

But there are clearly those who believe they have these abilities. The Brain is strong so yeah there are neurological explanations for these

But a lot of testimonies/studies indicate people seem to believe THEY get psychic abilities after nde, at least compared to before. Many of these people probably aren't advertising since they aren't named in these studies. (In the study above I mean)

And in the study for why they believe in reincarnatio, it said there were 3 reasons

Looked up spiritual beliefs 6/14
Nde had something to do with it 3/14
"Psychic abilities/experiences awakened because of the nde) 5/14
Second half of page 11 and first half of page 12
i don't think them being con artists would make sense since they aren't named at all in this study

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:34 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
gorgeous wrote:you can't break truth ...ever...yes....money -evil....it's why mary has no income of course...

We just debunked your claim, yet again. Bad luck Gorgeous. :lol:


Random question

Has gorgeous ever been caught lying about a personal experience (like when questioned it had so many holes that it was an obvious lie)

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:07 am

Anthony wrote: I genuinely want this stuff debunked more......
No one is stopping you. Debunk away.

However, we only deal with the 100s of claims brought to us. We don't go looking for nonsense, as that would be a complete waste of time. More than half the world is religious.

I have now asked you three times to set out the exact claim you are debunking and told you, not to simply supply You Tube links. I am now suspicious you are not watching the videos yourself.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:08 am

Anthony wrote:Has gorgeous ever been caught lying about a personal experience (like when questioned it had so many holes that it was an obvious lie)
Yes, He has.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:15 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Anthony wrote: I genuinely want this stuff debunked more......
No one is stopping you. Debunk away.

However, we only deal with the 100s of claims brought to us. We don't go looking for nonsense, as that would be a complete waste of time. More than half the world is religious.

I have now asked you three times to set out the exact claim you are debunking and told you, not to simply supply You Tube links. I am now suspicious you are not watching the videos yourself.



It's not a YouTube link it's a link to a study saying nde leads to psychic abilities, which lead to an increase in reincarnation and stuff. It's not a video it's a paper, I thought I said what I was claiming before? Like I quoted the study and stuff and the thing I wanted to debunk. Sorry if I wasn't clear

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:22 am

Matt MVS7 wrote: It's not a YouTube link it's a link to a study saying nde leads to psychic abilities,
Set out the hypothesis and the evidence, from this 1989 paper.

Then review and set out the more recent scientific hypotheses for why people think they had an NDE.

Which has the supporting evidence?
:lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:46 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matt MVS7 wrote: It's not a YouTube link it's a link to a study saying nde leads to psychic abilities,
Set out the hypothesis and the evidence, from this 1989 paper.

Then review and set out the more recent scientific hypotheses for why people think they had an NDE.

Which has the supporting evidence?
:lol:


I realize I'm annoying you and I'm sorry for that.

Also my original account was the Davis account, idk the matt one.

Alright so basically I guess the hypothesis is

"After nde, many people seem to get psychic abilities, which eventually lead to reincarnation belief"

The evidence

Well I guess the people she surveyed said so?

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:49 am

Anthony wrote: Well I guess the people she surveyed said so?
No. Did you check the figures?
Write them down for all of us Matt MSV7.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:57 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Anthony wrote: Well I guess the people she surveyed said so?
No. Did you check the figures?
Write them down for all of us Matt MSV7.


First party one claims 78% of people believed in reincarnation vs 41% before the nde

The people she surveyed, 5/14 who believes in nde claimed that they had psychic abilities post nde.

Tell me who matt ms5v is and tell me how I can prove to you I'm not him. My old account was Davis, the one where I asked to delete my posts

Email accounts were deremkorgan and derekmorgan928.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:59 am

Perhaps it's best that you begin with researching the individual and the history on which such claims are based before you start wondering about wondrous claims of gained superpowers through NDEs etc.

Take for example Anita Moorjani, who never was diagnosed (except by herself) with the illness she claims brought about her purported distress with accompanying nifty story to sell tell.

Or Eben Alexander, whose brain's condition was not at the stage(s) he claims.
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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:15 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Perhaps it's best that you begin with researching the individual and the history on which such claims are based before you start wondering about wondrous claims of gained superpowers through NDEs etc.

Take for example Anita Moorjani, who never was diagnosed (except by herself) with the illness she claims brought about her purported distress with accompanying nifty story to sell tell.

Or Eben Alexander, whose brain's condition was not at the stage(s) he claims.


I'm not disputing the idea that nde's are base do off of the brain.

It's just these people have no real reason to lie, while the others had things like fame. Names weren't published in this study

Many claim to have a gained psychic ability post NDE. I feel it's too widespread to see it as simply lying so what other explanations are there?

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:36 am

Omniverse AKA Matt MSV7 wrote: It's just these people have no real reason to lie,
Neither do Christians who go to church each week. That doesn't mean there is a "god" does it? :lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:09 am

Anthony AKA Omniverse AKA Matt MSV7 has sent me a second PM. It's very funny.

Anthony AKA Omniverse AKA Matt MSV7 wrote: Pleaseeee. I'm a student, 16 years old, who lives in indonesia in america for summer vacation. I'm begging you. With all my heart please. Just please do this quickly for me. Please.
Matthew Ellard wrote:No
Anthony AKA Omniverse AKA Matt MSV7 wrote:I respect your decision, but why are you being such a dick about it?


Indonesian 16 year olds do not use the expression "Dick". I lived in Indonesia. :lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:12 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Anthony AKA Omniverse AKA Matt MSV7 has sent me a second PM. It's very funny.

Anthony AKA Omniverse AKA Matt MSV7 wrote: Pleaseeee. I'm a student, 16 years old, who lives in indonesia in america for summer vacation. I'm begging you. With all my heart please. Just please do this quickly for me. Please.
Matthew Ellard wrote:No
Anthony AKA Omniverse AKA Matt MSV7 wrote:I respect your decision, but why are you being such a dick about it?


Indonesian 16 year olds do not use the expression "Dick". I lived in Indonesia. :lol:


Or maybe I go to an internationl(well intercultural) school?

I'm not gonna tell my identity so I'm prolly gonna be consideeed lying but I'll just say a bunch of stuff about where I live

3 main malls there I go to. PTC (supermall), lenmarc, Galaxy.

PTC is the main mall of the city, was the crappy one but after hey expanded it became the one everyone went to. Has a nice trampoline place called amped, but it's dirty as hell now. Food is nice, has shangrila place which is kinda nice

Lenmarc sucks but its the mall that has the drinking place and kareoke. Drinking age is completely legal. Supposed to have a purchasing age but no one cares. It's Ramadan now so they're selling alcohol in teacups even tho people could just smell it. 2 private rooms.

Galaxy, idk it's on the other side of town

Option = main billiards/pool place. It's a bar too, no one goes there.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:19 am

Anthony wrote: Or maybe I go to an internationl(well intercultural) school?
Which one?

Tell us more about Barong. How many Indonesians believe Barong will come save the day?

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Poodle » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:41 am

Anthony wrote: My old account was Davis, the one where I asked to delete my posts

Damn! I KNEW I should have kept that copy.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:46 am

Poodle wrote:
Anthony wrote: My old account was Davis, the one where I asked to delete my posts

Damn! I KNEW I should have kept that copy.
I kept a copy and it is Matt MSV7 AKA Omniverse once again.

He's doing his standard "Skeptics don't research NDEs and therefore Skeptics are not allowed to say NDEs are not real"

It's the same thread as the last six times.
:lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:50 am

Anthony AKA MATT MSV7 AKA Omniverse wrote: I'm a student, 16 years old, who lives in indonesia

Anthony AKA MATT MSV7 AKA Omniverse wrote:Lenmarc sucks but its the mall that has the drinking place and kareoke. Drinking age is completely legal.

The legal age for alcohol consumption is 21 in those few parts of Muslim Indonesia that any alcohol is allowed. :lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:01 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Poodle wrote:
Anthony wrote: My old account was Davis, the one where I asked to delete my posts

Damn! I KNEW I should have kept that copy.
I kept a copy and it is Matt MSV7 AKA Omniverse once again.

He's doing his standard "Skeptics don't research NDEs and therefore Skeptics are not allowed to say NDEs are not real"

It's the same thread as the last six times.
:lol:



Evidence is more compelling that NDEs are from the brain.

Research done into NDE's show this as well. I don't think research is limited but he research shown shows it's from the brain

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:09 am

.
Last edited by Anthony on Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:11 am

Anthony AKA Matt MSV7 AKA Omniverse wrote:Evidence is more compelling that NDEs are from the brain.
Correct.

You have my permission to stop posting here, and then grow up and stop being afraid of non existent paranormal NDEs.
:lol:

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:40 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Anthony AKA Matt MSV7 AKA Omniverse wrote:Evidence is more compelling that NDEs are from the brain.
Correct.

You have my permission to stop posting here, and then grow up and stop being afraid of non existent paranormal NDEs.
:lol:


Count how many times I posted an NDE testimonial here.

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Re: Studies: nde linked to reincarnation/psychic phenomena

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:48 am

Anthony AHA Matt MSV7 AKA Omniverse wrote:Count how many times I posted an NDE testimonial here.

Who cares?

You go tell the nice people at the David Icke Forum and see what they say about the testimonials
:lol:

https://forum.davidicke.com/


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