People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

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People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:24 am

I have a question on things like mediums and spiritualists and those people (I saw the other thread but the post got deleted)

How do we respond with those people who truly seem to believe they have these supernatural powers and stuff?

Like just a few examples

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z78UotFS ... e=youtu.be
Video of person who thinks she can communicate with the dead. Is it just the ideometer effect?

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/r ... rces.1961/
Someone who clearly believes mediation leads to some sort of super powers

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2013/07/psyc ... t.html?m=1
Someone who clearly believes that meditation leads to some sort of spiritual powers

http://www.lulu.com/shop/jurgen-ziewe/m ... 61853.html
https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-here-s ... nt-of-view
Obviously they seem to actually believe this

At least to me, it seems like these people truly believe they have these powers. How could they think so? Especially those spiritualist churches

There's also one particular medium I saw, sandy wiltshere. It's strange when it comes to her. She's almost completely absent when I look her up online, but nearly every single article I read about her seems positive

http://www.tjzmommy.com/my-visit-with-a ... m-my-zack/
http://www.georgetown-online.com/phpbb3 ... =23&t=4912
https://www.google.co.id/amp/s/amp.redd ... umpsychic/

My main problem here. I literally can't find ANYTHING on her. She made a book, but since she hardly publicized herself I don't see why she would publicize herself on forums or anything. I realize that there is definately the possibility of cold readings, but I don't see how there would be no reviews against her otherwise

Also, the big thing for me, is that there are hardly any reviews on her except for those few, yet people always talk about how she's ridiculously booked every month? Normally when I look up mediums I can find out they are frauds or have fraudulent connections literally a few searches in

Yet with someone like this I can't find anything. It might be a lack of popularity but it doesent make sense how someone that "booked" can be so absent online.

I'm legitimately getting stressed out over this to be honest. Like I don't like new age ideas and I'm definately against the idea of legit mediums and new age and stuff because it would cause a huge change in life if those stuff are true. But there seems to be this idea that the real good mediums are the ones that aren't "super famous" and stuff. So when I come across someone like this, with legit no info other than a few people who seem to say she is legit, obviously I get stressed a bit. Could someone help me out? Am I missing something here? It's hard to believe that the forum testimonys are lies, so what other explanation is there? The reddit testimony might be a lie for sure tho. I looked through post history and -99 karma isn't a good sign.

And these people say they wont take the james randi challange because the "spirits" aren't interested, or they aren't interested.

I do notice that many psychics/mediums who think they are legitimate don't do well in a laboratory testing setting usually.

But how can someone who is apparently that hooked be literally so hard to find online? If one medium is proved true does it prove all new age beliefs true as well (I certainly hope not)

And how do psychic medium classes continue, if people don't succeed in them? Do they just think they succeed and it does a lot of stuff to their brain or something
Last edited by Anthony on Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:07 am

Added

The only thing I can think of is unconcious cold readings.

My thing is if one person can truely talk to the dead does that make entire new age belief system true or something? I'd think schitzophrenia or just unconcious cold readings might be the answer but I'm not sure if the testimonies make sense then. Out of the three only the reddit one I think could be a downright lie.

There's also a book called mythomas, by Roberta grimes. She claims it's a well studied diary of Martha Skelton. In her personal forums she claims it's a channeled reading. Is it an accurate book? Reviews seem to say well researched, but obviously if it really was channeled it would have to be perfect. It pretty sure she's just crazy

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:34 am

Anthony wrote: I'm legitimately getting stressed out over this to be honest.
Lets work through this systematically.

Firstly, a con-artist medium who uses a variety of tricks to take money off gullible people, always will claim they are legitimate and "the real thing". That's the whole point of being a confidence trickster. You don't have to worry about those people. Stage magicians do the same tricks but admit they are tricksters.

Secondly, the people who are sincere and actually claim they have paranormal skills generally do so for simply psychological reasons. They remember "hits" when it comes to their predictions but forget all the "misses." If you to film a complete fortune telling session you would be amazed how many misses these people have. The second psychological reason is the need to be "someone special". If you have no skills, no education and no redeeming characteristics then it is easy to claim paranormal skills that no one can actually measure.

Thirdly, a good skeptic doesn't worry about any paranormal claims unless those claims are brought to skeptics to be examined. More than half the people on the planet are religious and believe in religious rubbish. Do you ring them up to tell them they are wrong? That would be a waste of time. It is better to let those people come to us on the forum and present their evidence. That way we know they really will make an attempt to prove their claim.

Finally, there are other real scientific questions that need exploration and it would be better to direct your stress to something that is real rather than the dark ages claims of idiots who think they can predict the future or read minds.
:D

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:41 am

If any person has real powers, he or she will be able to do things a professional stage magician cannot.
Up to this point in time, that has not happened. Uri Geller is the classic case. He claimed special powers, and demonstrated them. Lots of people thought he had psychic abilities. But stage magician were able to do the same thing, and told everyone how it was done, by trickery.

The Bell sisters were con artists who claimed to be able to speak to the dead. One of their first tricks was a knocking sound. They would ask the supposedly dead person to indicate his or her presence with a few knocks. Since the Bell sister was alone in the room, apart from the muggins paying her, and her hands were visible on the table, it seemed that the knocks must be from a spirit. But what they did was click their big toes (like clicking fingers) inside specially made shoes. Once you know how the con artist does it, it seems very simple. But when you do not know, it seems like magic.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:47 am

So we are assuming the sandy medium is a con artist then?

I don't know... it's just i have a hard time picturing someone who stays out of the limelight and started because of their daughters death to be a con artist. And it seems those who "knew" her say stuff like "oh she's so sweet" although it may be fabricated

I agree with the confirmation bias/cold reading thing. But based on the testimonies would you say it's a realistic answer to this? I'm not sure personally but I'm not as well versed in this as others are obviously
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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:58 am

One question is like to ask is how many/how much have mediums and those types been scientifically tested anyway?

Part of me thinks that they are so, well, out there science doesent other to test them. At least the non paracrap institutes. Like how many that are seen as "credible" like the girl here/weren't famous/considered to just be supernatural and know stuff beyond cold readings and stuff

I'm really, really stressed out about this lol it's weird. I don't necessarily disbelieve in spirits and stuff, but the idea of mediums just definately, like the whole new age idea is a bit kooky for sure. It seems to ridiculously stupid (astral travel. Lol) but it's just people claim the real psychics are the "obscure" ones, not the ones who volunteer to be tested. Although tbf if they volunteer they are probably believers that they are legit and the results speak for themselves
Last edited by Anthony on Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:59 am

No one doing something a stage magician can do is "realistic ."

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Anthony wrote:How do we respond with those people who truly seem to believe they have these supernatural powers and stuff?
The same way you'd respond to anyone else evincing delusions. How would you respond to someone who claimed she could fly?

Anthony wrote:At least to me, it seems like these people truly believe they have these powers. How could they think so? Especially those spiritualist churches
The ability of human beings to rationalize unreal ideas and simultaneously discard proven facts is amazing, isn't it? How many still believe that orbs in photos are spirits long after they've been proven to be light reflecting off particulate matter in the air?

Anthony wrote:Also, the big thing for me, is that there are hardly any reviews on her except for those few, yet people always talk about how she's ridiculously booked every month?
Er...people lie? Not everything is on the Internet?

Anthony wrote:I'm legitimately getting stressed out over this to be honest. Like I don't like new age ideas and I'm definately against the idea of legit mediums and new age and stuff because it would cause a huge change in life if those stuff are true. But there seems to be this idea that the real good mediums are the ones that aren't "super famous" and stuff. So when I come across someone like this, with legit no info other than a few people who seem to say she is legit, obviously I get stressed a bit. Could someone help me out? Am I missing something here?
I don't understand your stress. If no factual evidence supports the veracity of mediums, why worry?

Anthony wrote:It's hard to believe that the forum testimonys are lies, so what other explanation is there? The reddit testimony might be a lie for sure tho. I looked through post history and -99 karma isn't a good sign.
Why is it hard to believe that testimonials are lies? Look at it another way: Why is it hard to believe that the people who wrote those testimonials are just gullible, and believed what they wanted to believe, instead of objectively reporting what happened?

Anthony wrote:And these people say they wont take the james randi challange because the "spirits" aren't interested, or they aren't interested.
There's your proof that they're fake. Refusal to demonstrate their "powers" in a scientific setting.

Anthony wrote:But how can someone who is apparently that hooked be literally so hard to find online?
By refusing to establish an online presence.

Anthony wrote:If one medium is proved true does it prove all new age beliefs true as well (I certainly hope not)
Of course not. But testimonials don't prove anything.

Anthony wrote:And how do psychic medium classes continue, if people don't succeed in them? Do they just think they succeed and it does a lot of stuff to their brain or something
Because people are desperate to believe their egos will continue after their bodies die, so they believe in an after life and, therefore, believe mediums who say they can communicate with the dead.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:22 pm

As for the medium girl, I think she may be a fraud now

Mainly based off of this

How can someone who supposedly is so famous and has such a huge waitinglist be so damn hard to find online? Most of the stuff I heard seems to honestly be re searchable. Beyond that, her book is like 10 dollars, and tbh I just feel a true genuine person would blog it or do it for free, although that might be reaching.

But someone who supposedly has to be booked nearly 9 months in advance takes nearly 9 months of googling to find at all, definately sounds a bit suspicious.

Does anyone have data in mediums being tested in a laboratory setting? Like aside from randi I mean.

I'm also curious at how to respond to the skeptiko meditation claims. How can someone believe that stuff

(I might be asking the same thing over and over again but it's really important to me that this new age stuff isn't true. Like I know it sounds stupid but I legit have like had ridiculously bad panic attacks/anxiety because of it and lost like 6kg this week because of it)

I remember it was made off of a fraud, and right now he people who genuinely believe it seem to be victims of confirmation bias or just lying, not measuring misses vs hits.

Anyone have data on mediums being tested, where the mediums are like, either believed to really be supernatural beyond cold reading (and not fraudulent. What I mean is someone whose believed to be a medium due to testimonial evidence hints and confirmation bias and stuff). Basically testing the not famous ones I guess? And how tested are they

I switch between the "oh crap they might be real" and the "wait but look at the actual evidence though"

Like my personal opinion before this was I thought ghosts might be real, and some people might be able to perceive them, and maybe things like demonic possession are real to an extent. However, the idea some people can touch or communicate with spirits, or like be clairvoyant and tell the future seems to be BS. Some might just be more perceptive. I even thought astral travel and that crap was real a week ago but then I realized it was just a dream and stuff. It's funny I used to be a skeptic about everything lol and now I'm a gullible idiot.

One thing I find strange is, it seems like psychic abilities according to them are almost like a gene (although many believe it's like a muscle and all can get it) yet natural selection hasn't made it so widespread

Also I think the majority of reincarnation stories are BS and stuff. There are just a few like the guy who learned about Petra that kind of get me confused. Just coincidence or crappy journalism? You'd think if it's a real phenomenon cases like that would be more widespread though.

Does anyone have like, ex spiritualist church/mediumship classes/ current skeptic testimonies?

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:28 pm

Anthony wrote:Does anyone have data in mediums being tested in a laboratory setting?
I just did a Google search specifying "paranormal phenomena tested scientifically," and this article was the first return. The woman claimed to be a medium, and agreed to every condition of the test. Ten volunteers were chosen from the same race, gender, and age group. Their identities were shrouded with enveloping costumes. Each sat in a room with her back facing the medium, and read the same short passage of text (the medium claimed hearing a voice from the client was necessary). Then the medium provided a written reading for the volunteer. This process was repeated for each volunteer. At the end, the volunteers each read all ten readings and were instructed to choose the one the medium had written for them. Score? Science 10 - Medium 0...not a single volunteer chose her own reading.

Some principles for dismissing paranormal phenomena in the absence of scientific testing:
1. Is there an absence of evidence proving the phenomena to be real?
2. Is there observable evidence that should not exist if the phenomena were real?
3. Regarding anecdotes and testimonials: Is it more likely that the phenomena occurred or is it more likely that the person reporting it is deluded, mistaken, or lying?
4. If a phenomenon is real, then why do its proponents reject the scientific testing of its validity?
5. What are likely motives for creating a hoax with a phenomenon at its center?
6. What are likely motives for believing in such phenomena?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:36 pm

LunaNik wrote:
Anthony wrote:Does anyone have data in mediums being tested in a laboratory setting?
I just did a Google search specifying "paranormal phenomena tested scientifically," and this article was the first return. The woman claimed to be a medium, and agreed to every condition of the test. Ten volunteers were chosen from the same race, gender, and age group. Their identities were shrouded with enveloping costumes. Each sat in a room with her back facing the medium, and read the same short passage of text (the medium claimed hearing a voice from the client was necessary). Then the medium provided a written reading for the volunteer. This process was repeated for each volunteer. At the end, the volunteers each read all ten readings and were instructed to choose the one the medium had written for them. Score? Science 10 - Medium 0...not a single volunteer chose her own reading.

Some principles for dismissing paranormal phenomena in the absence of scientific testing:
1. Is there an absence of evidence proving the phenomena to be real?
2. Is there observable evidence that should not exist if the phenomena were real?
3. Regarding anecdotes and testimonials: Is it more likely that the phenomena occurred or is it more likely that the person reporting it is deluded, mistaken, or lying?
4. If a phenomenon is real, then why do its proponents reject the scientific testing of its validity?
5. What are likely motives for creating a hoax with a phenomenon at its center?
6. What are likely motives for believing in such phenomena?


That's definately interesting. I know it sounds stupid that I'm stressed out about this stuff but I'm not exagerrating when I say it's literally ridiculously bad anxiety attacks. (And it's completely from all the new age crap lol. When I thought it was BS they completely left so proving it to be probably not right is something I quite want to do)

Studies that prove it to be true seem to be fairly biased or not legit. I feel it's a subject that people just kind of laugh off so it's not tested a lot, legit tests seem to never prove it to be real though. I'm more interested in mediums vs psychics in this though.

Also it's kind of hard to test it obviously aside from just controls and stuff. Like i think seeing the writings would be interesting, like were they overgeneralizations, or specific names and stuff?

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:08 pm

Anthony wrote:That's definately interesting. I know it sounds stupid that I'm stressed out about this stuff but I'm not exagerrating when I say it's literally ridiculously bad anxiety attacks. (And it's completely from all the new age crap lol. When I thought it was BS they completely left so proving it to be probably not right is something I quite want to do)
It doesn't sound stupid. Anxiety is nothing to scoff at, and it's worth getting at the root of it before it has an affect on your health.

Anthony wrote:Studies that prove it to be true seem to be fairly biased or not legit. I feel it's a subject that people just kind of laugh off so it's not tested a lot, legit tests seem to never prove it to be real though. I'm more interested in mediums vs psychics in this though.
I agree that the "studies" that claim this stuff is true are always biased in some way.

Anthony wrote:Also it's kind of hard to test it obviously aside from just controls and stuff. Like i think seeing the writings would be interesting, like were they overgeneralizations, or specific names and stuff?
There were some caveats as to what the medium could include in her readings, caveats to which she agreed.
For example, Mrs Putt agreed not to include in her readings anything that might give an indication of the position of the reading in the series (e.g. "Feeling more confident with this one" would indicate that this could not possibly be the reading for the first volunteer). She also agreed not to make any reference to events that she might overhear outside the testing area (e.g. had there been the sound of children playing during one reading and reference was made to "happy children" in the reading itself).
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:19 pm

it is not supernatural powers...it is natural ability that all humans have , some are more highly developed and born with a greater talent...all people are psychic...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:26 pm

Anthony wrote:Also I think the majority of reincarnation stories are BS and stuff. There are just a few like the guy who learned about Petra that kind of get me confused.

Welcome back, Davis27. :wave:
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:27 pm

Here is an account of several tests of psychics. The conclusion was that psychics tend to make double the descriptive predictions, but aren't any more accurate than non-psychics at prediction.

This article discusses techniques used by psychics to convince people their predictions are real. They make use of vague statements, false modesty, cooperative techniques, and other such distractions. And here's an example of how such trickery works in practice...and how this psychic's failed predictions were ignored in favor of the successful predictions that were so overly general that anyone could have made them.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:37 pm

dog put down that morning comes through https://youtu.be/Jjgj2chXjA0
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:41 pm

Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:42 pm

Overheating?
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:07 pm

I understand he gorgeous girl is kind of a blubbering idiot but can someone describe to me what's wrong with the second link of her arguement? Just an arguement against testemonies in general and that one specifically

Also on my post just now, not asking for sympathy cuz my problem is tbh just a minor one in the grand scheme of things, but it's just kind of like why I deleted the posts. I am sorry for doing it and I'm not gonna act like I'm never gonna leave the forum I'll too ably do it when I get over my problem, so sorry about that. I might just change my password to the email on this account so I can never log in again at the same time i do wanna kill all connections at a time to put this part of my life behind me so idk. Sorry about it lol but I'll try to be good while I'm here for the few weeks

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:10 pm

gorgeous wrote:dog put down that morning comes through https://youtu.be/Jjgj2chXjA0



Let me do this reading for john Edward, who has already been exposed as a fraud

"Woof, woof woof woof"

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:11 pm

you must be a skeptic with the name calling...typical...the dead dog came through...animals come through...it happens ..you will learn...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:12 pm

not a fraud...scared he and others may change your belief system?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:22 pm

http://m.beforeitsnews.com/christian-ne ... ttedPage=1

Anyone familiar with the Nathan wheeler NDE? I'm curious, cuz I'm not sure where he stands on stuff. He talks about some reincarnation stuff and how he thinks he is evidence for it, yet disproves it himself?

Experiences are too varied to say anything for me

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:25 pm

There is an interesting trick, carried out by stage magician doing a telepathy trick. They ask the audience to imagine a number between 1 and 100.
They then say the number is 36. A surprising number of the audience will raise their hands when asked if their number is 36. It is a psychological trick. For some reason a disproportionate number of people will ALWAYS pick 36 as their number, and so it looks like mind reading.

The swindlers known as mediums use similar tricks. For example, the celebration thing will generally get one person, because celebrations are so common. Ditto the brain disease. Most of us know someone who had, or died of a brain disorder. There are a number of questions which, directed at an audience, will nearly always get a positive response. On the rare occasions that does not happen, the con artist simply glosses over the failure and pulls out the next question which will normally get a response.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:35 pm

gorgeous wrote:you must be a skeptic with the name calling...typical...the dead dog came through...animals come through...it happens ..you will learn...


I'm universalist-ish pro LGBT Christian who goes to church who believes in ghosts to an extent

But you are telling me that dreams are astral projection because they are real. I had a dream I thought was real, I died in it. I woke up and I didn't die. Gasp.

Also, if spirits can visit us in our dreams, why doesent a deceased loved one visit us in our dream over and over again to prove it wasn't a dream instead of going to a medium. Or why don't they wanna do the James randi challange to prove themselves. They don't wanna prove themselves? Charity too then.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:37 pm

death often only means change...as death is not the end ever......the dead do visit in dreams, I've also met future co workers in dreams of my future..
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:00 am

gorgeous wrote:you must be a skeptic
Scroll to the top of the page. This is a skeptics' forum. Are you lost?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:02 am

Anthony wrote:So we are assuming the sandy medium is a con artist then?
Yes. Set out the exact paranormal claim being made, the paranormal activities and controls and then we will walk you through this one.

Anthony wrote:One question is like to ask is how many/how much have mediums and those types been scientifically tested anyway?
Any medium is most welcome to contact CSISCOP or any other skeptic organisation to be tested and take away large amounts of money. However they never do that for obvious reasons. In reality many of these people are simply convicted in courts for "forging and utterances" and that's why they keep a low profile,

Does your country's trade practices law require these people to disclose "This is for entertainment purposes only".


Anthony wrote:I'm really, really stressed out about this
Why? Did the fake shark in "Jaws" scare you? Did the fake alien in "ET" scare you? So why do a handful of "stage magicians", taking money from idiots scare you?

Anthony wrote:How can someone who supposedly is so famous and has such a huge waitinglist be so damn hard to find online?
Con artists don't generally advertise. They niche advertise specifically to gullible people with lots of money.

I see that you are a sock puppet of someone who has already posted here. Why did you do that?

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:11 am

Anthony wrote:I understand he gorgeous girl is kind of a blubbering idiot
We keep Gorgeous as a "scarecrow". Gorgeous is so obviously stupid that he scares off other "wooists" who are too embarrassed to be associated with him.

Anthony wrote: I might just change my password to the email on this account so I can never log in again at the same time i do wanna kill all connections at a time to put this part of my life behind me so idk. Sorry about it lol but I'll try to be good while I'm here for the few weeks
I have a better idea. I want you to find the most convincing medium you can find and post a full breakdown of that person's evidence for their claim. We can then work through that person together.

However, do not simply post You tube links and say "What do you think?". If you do that we know you haven't watched the video yourself and thus can't set out any specific claims made in the video. That's what Gorgeous and Salomed do as they haven't got a clue and just want attention
:D

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:14 am

gorgeous wrote:not a fraud...scared he and others may change your belief system?
Skeptics don't have a belief system you blubbering idiot. That's what skepticism means. :lol:

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:18 am

you do have a belief system mary...don't get your panties in a twist....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Anthony » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:26 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Anthony wrote:So we are assuming the sandy medium is a con artist then?
Yes. Set out the exact paranormal claim being made, the paranormal activities and controls and then we will walk you through this one.

Anthony wrote:One question is like to ask is how many/how much have mediums and those types been scientifically tested anyway?
Any medium is most welcome to contact CSISCOP or any other skeptic organisation to be tested and take away large amounts of money. However they never do that for obvious reasons. In reality many of these people are simply convicted in courts for "forging and utterances" and that's why they keep a low profile,

Does your country's trade practices law require these people to disclose "This is for entertainment purposes only".


Anthony wrote:I'm really, really stressed out about this
Why? Did the fake shark in "Jaws" scare you? Did the fake alien in "ET" scare you? So why do a handful of "stage magicians", taking money from idiots scare you?

Anthony wrote:How can someone who supposedly is so famous and has such a huge waitinglist be so damn hard to find online?
Con artists don't generally advertise. They niche advertise specifically to gullible people with lots of money.

I see that you are a sock puppet of someone who has already posted here. Why did you do that?


Im the same person but don't worry I'm not one of those people who come in with an agenda of proving this stuff right. The reason I personally think she is a con artist as well now based off of the fact that someone with a months long waiting list is so invisible online. It's just that's he claimed it was because her daughter died. She made book Kurd. Probably time to research for Jose months

Also the reddit post is questionable, the girl has bad karma/credibility points I think but I'm not sure

I'm sorry for coming on after deleting my old Davis account. like iirc I said why I did that, doesent excuse it I know

As for he con artist thing I think that IS what shows it's a con/fake. The lack on online presence despite being "months waiting list" how the hell did months of people find her?

The convincing ones are he obscure reddit testimonies where no one knows anything about said psychic so that says something. I'm curious about the history of legit testing and mediums (non famous ones who believe their stuff and stuff)
Last edited by Anthony on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:26 am

Accidental double post.
Last edited by Lance Kennedy on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:27 am

On belief systems.

I do disagree with Matthew on this. As a skeptic, I have a belief system, and it is all based on credible evidence. Part of my belief system is the conviction that humans mostly are not very rational, and it is up to the few who can think, like Matthew and myself, to critically examine evidence, and try to present the truth to those who otherwise, like gorgeous, swallow superstition hook, line and sinker.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:27 am

I smell a Peter Pettigrew in this thread.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:30 am

truth is from me...you will learn...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:33 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:I do disagree with Matthew on this. As a skeptic, I have a belief system, and it is all based on credible evidence.


Shouldn't our skeptic world view be classified as a probability assignment system? We see the hypothesis and then the supporting evidence. We then review the alternative hypotheses and their evidence. We then conclude, Hypothesis "X" is more probably true than Hypothesis "Y", or "Z"

I don't think it matters, but can that process be called a belief system? Isn't it more a systematic process?
:?:

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:35 am

gorgeous wrote:truth is from me...you will learn...
Gorgeous believes the remote viewer, Joseph McMoneagle, from the Stargate project, who "remote viewed" that humans evolved from otters. ( I'm not kidding). :lol:

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:44 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Anthony wrote:I understand he gorgeous girl is kind of a blubbering idiot
We keep Gorgeous as a "scarecrow". Gorgeous is so obviously stupid that he scares off other "wooists" who are too embarrassed to be associated with him.

I now have a use for this: :strawman:
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: People who believe their powers, skepticism, etc

Postby gorgeous » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:47 am

lunatic will learn...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.


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