Souls and afterlife seem to be real

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:38 am

salomed wrote: The Scole experiments Video


"We're going to look at the Scole Experiment, a large, well-organized series of seances conducted by members of the Society for Psychical Research in the late 1990's in Scole, a small village in England. Reported phenomena included ghostly lights flitting about the room, images appearing on film inside secure containers, reports of touches from unseen hands, levitation of the table, and disembodied voices.'

Well with deep and meaningful evidence like this, scientists must be very nervous (not). :lol:

"Unfortunately, the Scole Experiment was tainted by profound investigative failings. In short, the investigators imposed little or no controls or restrictions upon the mediums, and at the same time, agreed to all of the restrictions imposed by the mediums. The mediums were in control of the seances, not the investigators."
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4179

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby salomed » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:15 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote: The Scole experiments Video


"We're going to look at the Scole Experiment, a large, well-organized series of seances conducted by members of the Society for Psychical Research in the late 1990's in Scole, a small village in England. Reported phenomena included ghostly lights flitting about the room, images appearing on film inside secure containers, reports of touches from unseen hands, levitation of the table, and disembodied voices.'

Well with deep and meaningful evidence like this, scientists must be very nervous (not). :lol:

"Unfortunately, the Scole Experiment was tainted by profound investigative failings. In short, the investigators imposed little or no controls or restrictions upon the mediums, and at the same time, agreed to all of the restrictions imposed by the mediums. The mediums were in control of the seances, not the investigators."
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4179


Debunk the video, rather than regurgitate.

Of course you won't, you will just derail and defame.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:58 pm

salomed wrote:Take a case like this:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/681034- ... n-of-body/

Assuming for a moment that the facts are accurately described, would that not make you question the possibility of an afterlife?

If one assumes any given set of facts as "true" then ..... its true. In the instant case, I'd conclude we have a mystery or an anomoly and I'd be comfortable in the ambiguity of leaving the case as an isolated incident. If its not replicable, its not of much use. And if you can't use it, it might as well not exist.

My next question would be: "What else does the kiddie know?" One trick ponies are side shows as stated above.

And finally...in counterpose.... what if the facts are not accurately described, which is the case in every instance that I am aware of. So much so, that another new report of such occurrences aren't worth looking at. I'll leave that to others and for the body of evidence to build up.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby salomed » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:40 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
salomed wrote:Take a case like this:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/681034- ... n-of-body/

Assuming for a moment that the facts are accurately described, would that not make you question the possibility of an afterlife?

If one assumes any given set of facts as "true" then ..... its true. In the instant case, I'd conclude we have a mystery or an anomoly and I'd be comfortable in the ambiguity of leaving the case as an isolated incident. If its not replicable, its not of much use. And if you can't use it, it might as well not exist.

My next question would be: "What else does the kiddie know?" One trick ponies are side shows as stated above.

And finally...in counterpose.... what if the facts are not accurately described, which is the case in every instance that I am aware of. So much so, that another new report of such occurrences aren't worth looking at. I'll leave that to others and for the body of evidence to build up.


We must doubt until we can no longer doubt. Doubt and certainty are the only two possible epistemic positions. Ironically, this principle of pure skepticism is seldom held to on this forum.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Poodle » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:12 pm

salomed wrote:We must doubt until we can no longer doubt. Doubt and certainty are the only two possible epistemic positions. Ironically, this principle of pure skepticism is seldom held to on this forum.

If you believe that, Salomed, then you should be attacking the OP with all of your might, given the thread title he/she chose, rather than taking another pathetic swipe at this forum. If all you are going to do in the future is snipe, tell me and I'll stick you on ignore. On the other hand, if you have something worthwhile to say, why not just say it. It isn't our fault that you embarrassed yourself so badly in your last foray on here.

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:53 pm

salomed wrote: We must doubt until we can no longer doubt. Doubt and certainty are the only two possible epistemic positions. Ironically, this principle of pure skepticism is seldom held to on this forum.

Comfort with ambiguity or not knowing or lack of certainty certainly helps avoid having someone else's BS shoved down your throat. Certainly a part if not the core of epistemology.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby salomed » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:59 pm

Poodle wrote:
salomed wrote:We must doubt until we can no longer doubt. Doubt and certainty are the only two possible epistemic positions. Ironically, this principle of pure skepticism is seldom held to on this forum.


If you believe that, Salomed, then you should be attacking the OP with all of your might


That would be assuming that I was right, which I am not entitled to do. I will leave that to the dogmatists... on which note:

tell me and I'll stick you on ignore.


Please ignore me! You never add anything to my time here, I clearly don't to yours. You never answer questions and are one of the biggest misrepresenters and derailers here. So yes, absolutly, ignore me and may we never speak again.

It isn't our fault that you embarrassed yourself so badly in your last foray on here.


I know I wont get a reply from you because you are going to ignore me life you said you would. But for the record, that thread was stopped by the forum owner.

Also, for the record, I am absolutely convinced that ntentioned mathematical constants have been secretly encoded into the cover of the Sonnets.

No amount of calling me a liar or an idiot etc would change that.

All that would change my view on te presence of the constants is to show that someone has hoaxed the cover, hoaxed in a remarkable way that would have required decades of planning. I would need evidence of that, not just the possibility. That is how sure I am.

Also, note, I am much more certain of this now than before I posted the video. I let the dogs loose on it, as it were, and all I got were barks and whelps, no refutations or even disconfirmations. So to me, that is even more confirmation.

Also in playing the DA on it I learnt much more about the artefact and turned my question "Are these encoded..." into an answer, "Yes, absolutly, they are. "

Now I am interested in how and why, but I won't come here for that.

Please retain your dignity and never speak to me again, as you asked.

Goodbye.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby salomed » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:02 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
salomed wrote: We must doubt until we can no longer doubt. Doubt and certainty are the only two possible epistemic positions. Ironically, this principle of pure skepticism is seldom held to on this forum.

Comfort with ambiguity or not knowing or lack of certainty certainly helps avoid having someone else's BS shoved down your throat.


Absolutly! It's more than fine to say I do not know.
Certainly a part if not the core of epistemology.


Yes, so why can you not follow this core principle and doubt your assumptions?

You do not know that there is not an afterlife, and yet you seem to claim you do know there is no afterlife, no god, etc.

Do you see my point?:)
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Poodle » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:03 pm

[Stage direction] ... Salomed, arms akimbo, turns and flounces from the room.

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:08 pm

Kamil wrote:Yeah but Shen, buddy, have you even read Dr. Long's book. All you have is something someone on good atheist said. Dr. Long's book uses so many peer reviewed sources to show that oxygen loss cannot be the answer. He has over 20 sources, and his book goes in detail arguing how it cannot be hallucinations. Hallucinations make no sense, NDEs do. All you have is GM worlee who is an idiot. So many ppl have debunked his crap it is unreal. Then you skeptics have Blackmore, who interviewed Tsakiris, and admitted she hadn't studied NDEs in 15 years, she lost the argument. How can a brain with zero measurable activity, still with oxygen and not on drugs create an NDE???


1. I read Dr. Longs book he has only anecdotes nothing more. This does not prove anything at all.
2. He has over 20 sources and? Even Nazi Germany books about racism and eugenics were full of peer-review from Nazis and it does not make it true. The problem is that Dr. Long makes bad conclusions.
3. Hallucinations and dreams can make sense not true. Again also I pointed you to a NDE where a worm was from Dr. Longs page which was clearly a hallucination and you ignore it.
4. Where did I quote Worlee in my response to you?? Nowhere do not make false statements.
5. No one has debunked that NDE are not hallucinations or dreams - you have no shred of evidence for it. Its just your believe and nothing more.
6. Tsakiris is a woo believer and the hardest kind along with Skeptiko he is not interested in the truth he is interested in his believes and I know I was a member of his forum in the past and have been watching not only his forum but also his podcast he wants only to believe and he wants his reality to be true where everything from telepathy to souls are true:

Criticism

Magician and skeptic Mark Edward has written:
Mr. Tsakiris is not just a believer, he’s clearly a con artist out to sell himself as an “expert in the field.” He’s not an expert at all. I doubt if he’s really even a believer if you get right down to it. He is playing what he thinks is a shrewd game of playing both sides against the middle and creating a win/win situation for himself. There’s no science at Skeptiko.[18]
In response to Tsakiris’s book Why Science Is Wrong, researcher Benjamin Radford who investigated what Tsakiris offered to him as the "best case for psychic detectives" (and which appears in the book as chapter 8) wrote an in-depth blog addressing the claims. The complex case, originally profiled on a 2006 episode of a TV show, involved a psychic named Nancy Weber who claimed that 30 years earlier she helped catch serial killer James Koedatich by giving police officers Jim Moore and Bill Hughes biographical details about the killer long before he was caught—details that Weber and Tsakiris claim turned out to be amazingly accurate. Tsakiris wrote that "the police detectives repeatedly corroborated psychic detective Nancy Weber’s amazing account... Amazingly, Radford still denies this fact" (p. 90).
Radford notes that "No one, including Tsakiris, Weber, Moore, or Hughes, offered any evidence whatsoever supporting their claims" and that "this ‘amazing’ case rests entirely on the contradictory memories of three people from a third of a century ago, yet Tsakiris boldly offers it as an example of Why Science Is Wrong. Furthermore in contrast to Tsakiris’s claim that "the police detectives repeatedly corroborated psychic detective Nancy Weber’s amazing account," a close review of their statements reveals “that they contradicted virtually every specific claim Weber made about what she told them.” In chapter 6 of his 2010 book Scientific Paranormal Investigation: How to Solve Unexplained Mysteries, Radford lists six examples of specific information Weber claims to have given police and quotes one or both of the officers as either refuting or being unable to confirm virtually all of Weber’s claims. In fact "Sgt. Hughes admitted that no information she gave led to his arrest…the case was solved by good police work."
Radford discovered using a New Jersey phone book from 1982 that if Weber had indeed given the detectives all the evidence she claimed she had at the time, the police could have discovered the killer with a 15-minute search through the phone book, yet the police were unable to find the killer until he called them to his home. Radford’s research also revealed that Weber falsely claimed to have psychically known unpublished details about the murder of Koedatich victim Aimee Hoffman (whose name Tsakiris repeatedly misspells as "Amy Hoffman") when in fact those details had been reported on the front page of the local newspaper. Radford attributes the case to a series of memory errors, confirmation bias, and mystery mongering.[19]


Source: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Alex_Tsakiris

7. Not true the brain is not dead, read this study:

Brain activity may continue for more than 10 minutes after the body appears to have died, according to a new study.

Canadian doctors in an intensive care unit appear to have observed a person's brain continuing to work even after they were declared clinically dead.

In the case, doctors confirmed their patient was dead through a range of the normal observations, including the absence of a pulse and unreactive pupils. But tests showed that the patients’ brain appeared to keep working – experiencing the same kind of brain waves that are seen during deep sleep.


Source:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/what-happens-die-brain-activity-life-heart-beating-death-after-eeg-study-research-a7620131.html

There are more studies like this with mice.

Conclusion: I have no time for this from your reply I get that you will believe no matter what. So I will not reply to you any more because its useless. Kamil you ignored what I wrote you did not even read it so this is all from me. You have no proof besides repeating that with Dr. Long book which is nothing more the anecdotes and the NDE world has shifted more from that. Even Dr. Sam Parnia failed so if you do not have any real evidence then we will let this be and you will not convince no one here with repeating the same thing over and over again. People here want real evidence not stories or made up stories to sell a book.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:16 pm

death: The permanent end of all life functions in an organism or part of an organism /// pulse is just one aspect. Brains attached to non pulsing bodies may "work" but they aren't composing musicals.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:15 pm

salomed wrote:You do not know that there is not an afterlife, and yet you seem to claim you do know there is no afterlife, no god, etc.

Do you see my point?:)
With respect, I believe your statement requires clarification. I don't recall ever reading a post that definitively stated, "There is no afterlife," or "There is no god." However, I have seen a plethora of posts, including my own, which have definitively stated, "There is no factual evidence of an afterlife," and "There is no proof of the existence of gods." There's a quite large difference between the two.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:34 pm

"Unfortunately, the Scole Experiment was tainted by profound investigative failings. In short, the investigators imposed little or no controls or restrictions upon the mediums, and at the same time, agreed to all of the restrictions imposed by the mediums. The mediums were in control of the seances, not the investigators."
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4179

salomed wrote: Debunk the video, rather than regurgitate.
Listen you complete idiot, firstly, you are regurgitating this 25 year old video! :lol:

Secondly, you are unable to state one piece of "Evidence of the afterlife" from the video yourself, clearly indicating you can't can't find any evidence in the video.
:lol:

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:45 pm

salomed wrote:. But for the record, that thread was stopped by the forum owner.
No Salomed. Pyrrho closed down your promotion of the book on Magical codes in Shakespeare's Sonnets, when you were caught forging evidence twice in a row and then caught lying about that evidence.

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=27941&hilit=shakespeare&start=40#p567379

You are not a skeptic. You come here for the same reason as Gorgeous, to "spam woo" because you can't cope with science.

salomed wrote:Goodbye.
...and good riddance :D

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:00 am

salomed wrote:What sort of evidence would convince you the afterlife is real?
This is the oldest "woo" trick in the book and details Salomed's absolute lack of scientific knowledge.

The Scientific Method / Establish Hypothesis First
In science, you only start seeking evidence, one you have established and set out a working hypothesis. The evidence you collect, either supports or falsifies that working hypothesis. If there is no working hypothesis you are simply collecting a mixed bag of data that has no purpose.


There is no hypothesis for "The Afterlife"
The "Afterlife" is a narrative theme from traditional fiction. It is never described in any systematic way with any explanation as to how it works. No one in the entire history of humankind has ever set out a working hypothesis for the afterlife other than say "God or Gods did it"


Salomed's Hypothesis for the Afterlife
Salomed will now prove me wrong by setting out his working hypothesis for how the afterlife works. (This will be extremely funny)
:lol:

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:10 am

Shen1986 wrote:People here want real evidence not stories or made up stories to sell a book.
Hi Shen. We all hope you are well and doing good work. It's good to see you still come visit the forum, post a couple of good solid facts and keep adding to the forum's skeptical research data. :D

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:25 am

salomed wrote:Take a case like this:

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/681034-3-year-old-remembers-past-life-identifies-murderer-and-location-of-body/

Assuming for a moment that the facts are accurately described, would that not make you question the possibility of an afterlife?

It does me!:)

This article is worse than an anecdote; it's hearsay:
In his book, “Children Who Have Lived Before: Reincarnation Today,” German therapist Trutz Hardo tells this boy’s story, along with other stories of children who seem to remember their past lives with verified accuracy. The boy’s story was witnessed by Dr. Eli Lasch, who is best known for developing the medical system in Gaza as part of an Israeli government operation in the 1960s. Dr. Lasch, who died in 2009, had recounted these astounding events to Hardo.
Hardo is alleging that Lasch told him this story. Lasch isn't alive to confirm or deny it, so there's no way of knowing whether it's a true retelling, a distorted retelling, or complete BS from beginning to end. Since no one in this hearsay anecdote is named, there's no way to check the facts independently of Lasch either. There's no valid reason for assuming, even for a moment, that any part of this story is factual.

There's even less reason when you look into Trutz Hardo, alleged in this article to be a "German therapist." Hardo has no degrees in psychiatry or psychology; he studied the German language and German literature at university. He was "trained" by New Age hypnotist Dick Sutphen. Hardo claims he can not only regress people to their previous lives, but also progress them into their future lives.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Phoenix76 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:13 am

Just watched a short video by Tim Freke, a philosopher, which publicizes his latest book, Soul Story. He claims that the "soul" is actually our psyche. Guess that is one way to look at it, if you must accept the soul's existence. Interesting concept though.

Still, at this point in time I cannot accept the soul per se, and I certainly do not accept the afterlife. To accept both of these premises, I would also have to accept some form of a god or other deity. But until someone can show me some sort of rational evidence of such things, then I must remain a disbeliever.

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Anthony » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:48 am

I see skeptiko

I turn around


And run

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby salomed » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:09 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote: Debunk the video, rather than regurgitate.


[color=#000080]Listen you complete idiot, firstly, you are regurgitating this 25 year old video! :lol:


Yes, for 20+ years it remains a mystery to myself. I think it is good evidence for the afterlife, assuming it is not a hoax. Do you agree? That if it is not a hoax it is a good body of evidence? Or if you would prefer, pick a singular bit of evidence from the film, such as the film negatives.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby salomed » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:09 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote: Debunk the video, rather than regurgitate.


[color=#000080]Listen you complete idiot, firstly, you are regurgitating this 25 year old video! :lol:


Yes, for 20+ years it remains a mystery to myself. I think it is good evidence for the afterlife, assuming it is not a hoax. Do you agree? That if it is not a hoax it is a good body of evidence? Or if you would prefer, pick a singular bit of evidence from the film, such as the film negatives.[/quote]
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby salomed » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:09 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote: Debunk the video, rather than regurgitate.



Listen you complete idiot, firstly, you are regurgitating this 25 year old video! :lol:


Yes, for 20+ years it remains a mystery to myself. I think it is good evidence for the afterlife, assuming it is not a hoax. Do you agree? That if it is not a hoax it is a good body of evidence? Or if you would prefer, pick a singular bit of evidence from the film, such as the film negatives.
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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby TJrandom » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:24 pm

Said twice, or even thrice... doesn`t make it true... ;)

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:03 pm

Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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How woosters fake evidence

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:11 pm

salomed wrote:Yes, for 20+ years it remains a mystery to myself. I think it is good evidence for the afterlife, assuming it is not a hoax.
No

1) The video is 25 years old and has already been thoroughly debunked, including the hoaxes.

2) You can't find and set out one "experiment" in the video that proves the afterlife, because no such experiment exists in the video. You haven't actually watched it.
:lol:

Salomed to set out his afterlife hypothesis
You ran away from this question. Set out your working hypothesis for the afterlife and then show us how the "evidence" from the Scole video supports your hypothesis.
:lol:

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:27 pm

gorgeous wrote:Eban Alexanders proof of heaven video
This was too easy to debunk as Esquire Magazine had already done an expose on Eban Alexander.
http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/in ... e-prophet/
http://iands.org/ndes/more-info/ndes-in ... facts.html

The opening paragraph sets the tone as Eban Alexander had already been sued numerous times for altering medical records. The article then systematically lists direct lies Eban Alexander made in his book on "Proof of heaven"

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:31 pm

hardly
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:40 pm

gorgeous wrote:hardly
No Gorgeous. The debunk is clear. What makes you a total idiot is that you haven't read either his original "woo" book or the Esquire debunk article. :lol:

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:40 pm

salomed wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote: The Scole experiments Video


"We're going to look at the Scole Experiment, a large, well-organized series of seances conducted by members of the Society for Psychical Research in the late 1990's in Scole, a small village in England. Reported phenomena included ghostly lights flitting about the room, images appearing on film inside secure containers, reports of touches from unseen hands, levitation of the table, and disembodied voices.'

Well with deep and meaningful evidence like this, scientists must be very nervous (not). :lol:

"Unfortunately, the Scole Experiment was tainted by profound investigative failings. In short, the investigators imposed little or no controls or restrictions upon the mediums, and at the same time, agreed to all of the restrictions imposed by the mediums. The mediums were in control of the seances, not the investigators."
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4179


Debunk the video, rather than regurgitate.

Of course you won't, you will just derail and defame.

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Gord » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:19 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Do you paw through {!#%@} looking for the pearls the swine have swallowed?

It seems plausible.
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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby salomed » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:35 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote:Yes, for 20+ years it remains a mystery to myself. I think it is good evidence for the afterlife, assuming it is not a hoax.
No

1) The video is 25 years old and has already been thoroughly debunked, including the hoaxes.

2) You can't find and set out one "experiment" in the video that proves the afterlife, because no such experiment exists in the video. You haven't actually watched it.
:lol:


I do not belive it has been thoroughly debunked. Could you please point me to some of this debunking, other than the skeptoid article I posted originally, and which as I said, didn't debunk it. Questioning is not debunking. Skepticism works both ways.


Code: Select all

[color=#000080][b][u]Salomed to set out his afterlife hypothesis[/u][/b]
You ran away from this question.   Set out your working hypothesis for the afterlife and then show us how the "evidence" from the Scole video supports your hypothesis.  [/color] :lol:


No, I have no hypothesis. Nor have I claimed to. I am interested in evidence of the mysterious. I am too stupid to dare to come up with a hypothesis about the true nature of reality, and so are you... and him... and her... and them.
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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:09 pm

salomed wrote:I do not belive it has been thoroughly debunked.
No images appeared on the films locked in the boxes provided by the researchers. Images did appear on the films "locked" inside the boxes provided by the mediums. Upon examination, it was discovered that the mediums' boxes were quite easy to open...even in the dark.

How is this not evidence of a hoax to you? When controlled conditions were present, the mediums were unable to produce results. Only when the mediums were able to physically interfere with the "experiment" did the "spirit phenomena" occur.

Why would you require more evidence than this obvious proof?
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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby salomed » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:18 pm

LunaNik wrote:
salomed wrote:I do not belive it has been thoroughly debunked.
No images appeared on the films locked in the boxes provided by the researchers. Images did appear on the films "locked" inside the boxes provided by the mediums. Upon examination, it was discovered that the mediums' boxes were quite easy to open...even in the dark.

How is this not evidence of a hoax to you? When controlled conditions were present, the mediums were unable to produce results. Only when the mediums were able to physically interfere with the "experiment" did the "spirit phenomena" occur.

Why would you require more evidence than this obvious proof?


It isn't a refutation. It is a possible mechanism of hoaxing, I agree, and have done all along.

I think it is an amazing documentary and the best collated evidence I know of an afterlife, whatever that may mean.
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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:46 pm

salomed wrote:
LunaNik wrote:
salomed wrote:I do not belive it has been thoroughly debunked.
No images appeared on the films locked in the boxes provided by the researchers. Images did appear on the films "locked" inside the boxes provided by the mediums. Upon examination, it was discovered that the mediums' boxes were quite easy to open...even in the dark.

How is this not evidence of a hoax to you? When controlled conditions were present, the mediums were unable to produce results. Only when the mediums were able to physically interfere with the "experiment" did the "spirit phenomena" occur.

Why would you require more evidence than this obvious proof?


It isn't a refutation. It is a possible mechanism of hoaxing, I agree, and have done all along.

I think it is an amazing documentary and the best collated evidence I know of an afterlife, whatever that may mean.

Can you explain the reasons you consider it to be evidence?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby Poodle » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:51 pm

LunaNik wrote:Can you explain the reasons you consider it to be evidence?


I was going to ask that, then I remembered I'm under instruction from Salomed never to speak in words to Salomed ever again. So I didn't. I'm glad you asked, though.

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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:53 am

No evidence in 25 year old video on Mediums
salomed wrote:I do not belive it has been thoroughly debunked.
You idiot, You were unable to find one piece of evidence in the video you posted and didn't watch yourself. There is nothing to debunk. If you think there is evidence in that 25 year old video, state exactly what it is. :lol:


Matthew Ellard wrote:Salomed to set out his afterlife hypothesis
You ran away from this question. Set out your working hypothesis for the afterlife and then show us how the "evidence" from the Scole video supports your hypothesis.
:lol:
salomed wrote:No, I have no hypothesis. Nor have I claimed to.
So how in hell can you claim you ask people to nominate evidence supporting a hypothesis for the afterlife, when you don't even have a hypothesis?

You have no idea what the scientific method is. Is that correct?
:lol:

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Re: Souls and afterlife seem to be real

Postby Poodle » Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:09 am

It's well worth repeating the conclusion of Brian Dunning's comments ...

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4179

"A scientific investigation of a strange phenomenon assumes the null hypothesis unless the phenomenon can be proven to exist. But the authors of the Scole Report, with complete credulity, did the exact opposite: Their stated position is that the lack of disproof means their seances were real supernatural events. But a primary feature of good research is the elimination of other possible explanations, at which the Scole investigators made no competent effort. Many of the investigators expressed that they were not very convinced by what they witnessed, and it is to the credit of the Scole Report authors that they fairly reported this. But this raises the question: Why then write such a lengthy and credulous report, making such obvious conclusions that these phenomena were real? The lesson to take away from the Scole Experiment is a simple one. Although we all have preconceived notions, we have to put them aside and follow the evidence when we investigate".

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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby salomed » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:50 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:No evidence in 25 year old video on Mediums
salomed wrote:I do not belive it has been thoroughly debunked.
You idiot, You were unable to find one piece of evidence in the video you posted and didn't watch yourself. There is nothing to debunk. If you think there is evidence in that 25 year old video, state exactly what it is. :lol:


Matthew Ellard wrote:Salomed to set out his afterlife hypothesis
You ran away from this question. Set out your working hypothesis for the afterlife and then show us how the "evidence" from the Scole video supports your hypothesis.
:lol:
salomed wrote:No, I have no hypothesis. Nor have I claimed to.
So how in hell can you claim you ask people to nominate evidence supporting a hypothesis for the afterlife, when you don't even have a hypothesis?

You have no idea what the scientific method is. Is that correct?
:lol:


I've watched it numerous times and was reading Popper when you were still sucking popsicles. All you do is bellow and bully and get your bots to find things to quote. I won't ask you to ignore me as I find you fascinating and amusing.
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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby salomed » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:55 pm

LunaNik wrote:
salomed wrote:
LunaNik wrote:
salomed wrote:I do not belive it has been thoroughly debunked.
No images appeared on the films locked in the boxes provided by the researchers. Images did appear on the films "locked" inside the boxes provided by the mediums. Upon examination, it was discovered that the mediums' boxes were quite easy to open...even in the dark.

How is this not evidence of a hoax to you? When controlled conditions were present, the mediums were unable to produce results. Only when the mediums were able to physically interfere with the "experiment" did the "spirit phenomena" occur.

Why would you require more evidence than this obvious proof?


It isn't a refutation. It is a possible mechanism of hoaxing, I agree, and have done all along.

I think it is an amazing documentary and the best collated evidence I know of an afterlife, whatever that may mean.

Can you explain the reasons you consider it to be evidence?


Sure. Someone seeing a ghost is evidence of an afterlife. It is information that confirms a hypothesis.

It is terrible evidence. But it is evidence.

The Scoles information is much better quality evidence. The best collected evidence I know of. The portages. The photo, video and audio evidence. It is remarkable.

I don't know if it is fake or not. Others here claim to know it is fake. I do not know how they can claim this.
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Re: How woosters fake evidence

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:20 pm

salomed wrote:
LunaNik wrote:Can you explain the reasons you consider it to be evidence?


Sure. Someone seeing a ghost is evidence of an afterlife. It is information that confirms a hypothesis.

It is terrible evidence. But it is evidence.

The Scoles information is much better quality evidence. The best collected evidence I know of. The portages. The photo, video and audio evidence. It is remarkable.

I don't know if it is fake or not. Others here claim to know it is fake. I do not know how they can claim this.

So, by your rules of evidence, when I saw this lovely creature* bending over my bed...
Image
...that was "evidence" of an alternate dimension where 7-foot-tall insectile creatures are the dominant species?
*This image comes closest to what the creature looked like.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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