Jenny Cockell

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Jenny Cockell

Postby Whitedude » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:38 pm

Jenny Cockell is a proponent of reincarnation claiming that she has memories of being Mary Sutton, the mother of several children in a village north of Dublin. She has written four books on reincarnation.

Joe Nickell debunked her claims in the skeptical inquirer:

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

Joe Nickell has written that Cockell's alleged past life memories and reincarnation claims break down under critical analysis "Unknown were Mary’s surname, either maiden or married, or the names of her husband or children. Similarly, the village’s name and even its location were a mystery. Cockell was ignorant of dates as well, including Mary’s birth date or even the year of her birth. And so on and on."


Bolded because this point is important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

However, the spiritualist and reincarnation believer Robert McLuhan disputes Nickell's research.

http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormal ... kell-.html

According to McLuhan:

A common tactic is to argue that past-life memories are imagined and the matches spurious (this is the basis of Joe Nickell’s critique of Cockell). It’s said that if you search hard enough – as she did – you’re bound to turn up an exact match sooner or later. But this takes no account of the rich texture of some of the memories, as is often the case in many instances of children’s memories, and is also true here. For instance with regard to Mary Sutton, Cockell had a strong memory of standing on a wooden jetty looking out across the water and shivering in a threadbare shawl. It was an isolated fragment, and although it was persistent she had no means of understanding the circumstances. When she finally met one of Mary’s sons he explained that he had occasional employment on an island that had to be accessed by boat, and in the evenings his mother had often waited on the jetty for him to return.


But McLuhan ignores Nickell's bolded point above and does not even mention it. So I ask if Cockell really was the reincarnation of Mary Sutton then how comes Cockell couldn't even get Mary’s birth date correct? Or the names of her children? Etc?

Any thoughts?
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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:41 pm

Whitedude wrote:Jenny Cockell is a proponent of reincarnation claiming that she has memories of being Mary Sutton, the mother of several children in a village north of Dublin. She has written four books on reincarnation.

Joe Nickell debunked her claims in the skeptical inquirer:

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

Joe Nickell has written that Cockell's alleged past life memories and reincarnation claims break down under critical analysis "Unknown were Mary’s surname, either maiden or married, or the names of her husband or children. Similarly, the village’s name and even its location were a mystery. Cockell was ignorant of dates as well, including Mary’s birth date or even the year of her birth. And so on and on."


Bolded because this point is important.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

However, the spiritualist and reincarnation believer Robert McLuhan disputes Nickell's research.

http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormal ... kell-.html

According to McLuhan:

A common tactic is to argue that past-life memories are imagined and the matches spurious (this is the basis of Joe Nickell’s critique of Cockell). It’s said that if you search hard enough – as she did – you’re bound to turn up an exact match sooner or later. But this takes no account of the rich texture of some of the memories, as is often the case in many instances of children’s memories, and is also true here. For instance with regard to Mary Sutton, Cockell had a strong memory of standing on a wooden jetty looking out across the water and shivering in a threadbare shawl. It was an isolated fragment, and although it was persistent she had no means of understanding the circumstances. When she finally met one of Mary’s sons he explained that he had occasional employment on an island that had to be accessed by boat, and in the evenings his mother had often waited on the jetty for him to return.


But McLuhan ignores Nickell's bolded point above and does not even mention it. So I ask if Cockell really was the reincarnation of Mary Sutton then how comes Cockell couldn't even get Mary’s birth date correct? Or the names of her children? Etc?

Any thoughts?

What I bolded in McLuhan's text seems to be just another one of those things so common, one can find that in almost any story or song about women/mothers living near a coast and waiting for their fishermen husbands, or sons, out at sea...
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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby octopus1 » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:28 pm

"Your name is Adam. Bertie. Charlie. Della Street. Evangeline..."
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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby Gord » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:06 am

Whitedude wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

...her past life memories under hypnosis....

Oy vey, case closed already. :roll:
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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby 51manorroad » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:39 pm

Cockell DID name and locate Malahide in childhood despite Joe Nickell's curious and completely wrong assumption; the name and location of the village were never a mystery. Independent researchers including one from the BBC confirmed with witnesses that Cockell had spoken about Malahide as a child and pinpointed the exact position of the house there since childhood.
As to Mary's birth and death these were indicated as rough years and were broadly correct.
In skepticism it is vital to start with correct facts. Nickell did not.

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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby 51manorroad » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:48 pm

Gord wrote:
Whitedude wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

...her past life memories under hypnosis....

Oy vey, case closed already. :roll:
It wasn't a hypnosis case; it was from childhood, including the location.

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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby Gord » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:22 am

51manorroad wrote:
Gord wrote:
Whitedude wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

...her past life memories under hypnosis....

Oy vey, case closed already. :roll:

It wasn't a hypnosis case; it was from childhood, including the location.

It was while under hypnosis in 1988 that she "recovered" these alleged memories from childhood.
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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby 51manorroad » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:55 pm

Gord wrote:
51manorroad wrote:
Gord wrote:
Whitedude wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

...her past life memories under hypnosis....

Oy vey, case closed already. :roll:

It wasn't a hypnosis case; it was from childhood, including the location.

It was while under hypnosis in 1988 that she "recovered" these alleged memories from childhood.

Re-read the sources. It was just before the age of four she first spoke about these memories and talked to many people whilst a child, as verified by independent researchers including one form the BBC. The hypnosis experiment was to try to remember more but in the end she went back to relying on the memories she had from childhood as the hypnosis added very little.

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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:14 pm

And you trust those sources completely?
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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby Phoenix76 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:16 am

No Gawd, I don't trust any of it. And I don't believe any of it. Don't know why I read these type posts but maybe I get a laugh out of them.

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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby Poodle » Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:42 am

51manorroad wrote:... Re-read the sources ...

I would - but I haven't seen any reliable sources yet. Do you have any?

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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:14 pm

51manorroad wrote:
Gord wrote:
51manorroad wrote:
Gord wrote:
Whitedude wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

...her past life memories under hypnosis....

Oy vey, case closed already. :roll:

It wasn't a hypnosis case; it was from childhood, including the location.

It was while under hypnosis in 1988 that she "recovered" these alleged memories from childhood.

Re-read the sources. It was just before the age of four she first spoke about these memories and talked to many people whilst a child, as verified by independent researchers including one form the BBC. The hypnosis experiment was to try to remember more but in the end she went back to relying on the memories she had from childhood as the hypnosis added very little.

You realize that hypnosis is mostly guided, right? The questioners set the tone and tell the subject what they expect to hear.
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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby 51manorroad » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:44 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
51manorroad wrote:
Gord wrote:
51manorroad wrote:
Gord wrote:
Whitedude wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

...her past life memories under hypnosis....

Oy vey, case closed already. :roll:

It wasn't a hypnosis case; it was from childhood, including the location.

It was while under hypnosis in 1988 that she "recovered" these alleged memories from childhood.

Re-read the sources. It was just before the age of four she first spoke about these memories and talked to many people whilst a child, as verified by independent researchers including one form the BBC. The hypnosis experiment was to try to remember more but in the end she went back to relying on the memories she had from childhood as the hypnosis added very little.

You realize that hypnosis is mostly guided, right? The questioners set the tone and tell the subject what they expect to hear.

That's probably why Cockell didn't lay much store in hypnosis herself, but relied on the memories of Mary and Malahide she had spoken about, to just about anyone who would listen, from the age of three into adulthood. Which is why this is regarded as a childhood memory case. The hypnosis is something of a 'red herring'. It is important in any skeptical response to use the facts. In this case disregarding the bulk of the case and concentrating only on the hypnosis doesn't help in an honest response. We should ignore the hypnosis at least as much as Cockell did and think about this as a childhood case that continued into adulthood.

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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby 51manorroad » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:48 pm

Poodle wrote:
51manorroad wrote:... Re-read the sources ...

I would - but I haven't seen any reliable sources yet. Do you have any?

Unfortunately Nickell isn't a reliable source, you could try reading the book.

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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:11 pm

51manorroad wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
51manorroad wrote:
Gord wrote:
51manorroad wrote:
Gord wrote:
Whitedude wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

...her past life memories under hypnosis....

Oy vey, case closed already. :roll:

It wasn't a hypnosis case; it was from childhood, including the location.

It was while under hypnosis in 1988 that she "recovered" these alleged memories from childhood.

Re-read the sources. It was just before the age of four she first spoke about these memories and talked to many people whilst a child, as verified by independent researchers including one form the BBC. The hypnosis experiment was to try to remember more but in the end she went back to relying on the memories she had from childhood as the hypnosis added very little.

You realize that hypnosis is mostly guided, right? The questioners set the tone and tell the subject what they expect to hear.

That's probably why Cockell didn't lay much store in hypnosis herself, but relied on the memories of Mary and Malahide she had spoken about, to just about anyone who would listen, from the age of three into adulthood. Which is why this is regarded as a childhood memory case. The hypnosis is something of a 'red herring'. It is important in any skeptical response to use the facts. In this case disregarding the bulk of the case and concentrating only on the hypnosis doesn't help in an honest response. We should ignore the hypnosis at least as much as Cockell did and think about this as a childhood case that continued into adulthood.

Don't see any reason to even look at the case.
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Re: Jenny Cockell

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:19 pm

Reliable Sources. ha, ha. I've never seen one. If you are real lazy, bored, or brain damaged, you can start to get an interest in the subject given the claims made about what is remembered. But.........the first 3-4 such incidents that I looked into were all based on phonied up manufactured past memories...........the role of hypnosis for instance.

Now........one can only read these stories for the interest in how stupid people can be............... or want to be. The desire for the comfort of childhood beliefs.
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