The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

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Whitedude
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The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Whitedude » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:23 pm

I will be debunking their list one by one:

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

Before I do, anyone got any thoughts?
I am not longer posting on this forum. Too busy in real life with other interests.

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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:39 pm

This could be fun. I will also look into this. I already found some skeptical information about the first case:

1956 The Rebirth of Bridey Murphy [ID#36] -Hear Here- 270 Bernstein


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

This one was looked on by skeptics. However it will be fun. We could both do this and then compare what we found.

Here is the info about this case:

The experts who examined the case of Virginia Tighe came to the conclusion that the best way to arrive at the truth was to check back not to Ireland but to her own childhood and her relationship with her parents. Morey Bernstein's book stated that Virginia Tighe (whom he called Ruth Simmons in the book) was brought up by a Norwegian uncle and his German-Scottish-Irish wife. However, it did not state that her actual parents were both part Irish and that she had lived with them until the age of three. It also did not mention that an Irish immigrant named Bridie Murphy Corkell (1892–1957)[2] lived across the street from Tighe's childhood home in Chicago, Illinois. Scientists are satisfied that everything Virginia Tighe said can be explained as a memory of her long-forgotten childhood.[3] The psychologist Andrew Neher wrote that as a child Tighe was a close friend to a neighbor whose life was very similar to Bridey Murphy's. Neher wrote cryptomnesia accounted for the information.[4]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridey_Murphy

I am also skeptical because Bernstein used this:

In 1952, Colorado businessman and amateur hypnotist Morey Bernstein put housewife Virginia Tighe of Pueblo, Colorado, in a trance that sparked off startling revelations about Tighe's alleged past life as a 19th-century Irishwoman and her rebirth in the United States 59 years later. Bernstein used a technique called hypnotic regression, during which the subject is gradually taken back to childhood. He then attempted to take Virginia one step further, before birth, and was astonished to find he was listening to Bridey Murphy.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridey_Murphy

Hypnotic regression is not a good way to deal with this kind of stuff. Even Ian Stevenson who I do not like agreed that hypnotic regression brings no evidence of survival.

It was also looked upon here:

http://www.skepdic.com/bridey.html

Or here:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/rea ... h-hypnosis

I will also however post my own looks on every case. Besides to get biased on them from other material. I will look on every of those cases. Some of them are really fun and really funny. Some of them are very easy do debunk.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Monster » Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:07 pm

Whitedude wrote:I will be debunking their list one by one:

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

Before I do, anyone got any thoughts?

Who is your audience? If it's paranormal believers, then they won't accept anything you say.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:31 pm

Monster wrote:
Whitedude wrote:I will be debunking their list one by one:

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

Before I do, anyone got any thoughts?

Who is your audience? If it's paranormal believers, then they won't accept anything you say.


Some are more easy to give way than others. Plus its fun to see what might have happened in the cases either way.

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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:29 pm

Part 1: The source:

The AECES page is run by these people:

Advisory Board
Robert Almeder, Ph.D.

Julie Beischel, Ph.D

Rev. Karen Herrick, Ph.D.

R. Craig Hogan, Ph.D.

Jane Katra, Ph.D.

Vernon Neppe, M.D., Ph.D.

John Turner, M.D.

Victor Zammit, LL.B., Ph.D.

Volunteer Staff

President
Miles Edward Allen

Vice-President
William Stoney, M.S.

Historian
Michael E. Tymn

Secretary/Treasurer
Donna J. Allen

Advocacy Group
Liaison
Stephen H. Hall


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Katra.shtml

Luckily the all have their bios on their page. So I will just take a look at them:

Robert F. Almeder, Ph.D.:

Almeder completed his Ph,D. on "The Metaphysical and Logical Realism of Charles Peirce" at the University of Pennsylvania in 1969. Almeder received the Outstanding Educator of America Award and then the Georgia State University Alumni Distinguished Professor Award for teaching in 1984 and 1995. Almeder was the recipient of a Fulbright Scholarship in 1992 and then again in 2005. Georgia State University instituted a student award in honour of Almeder upon his retirement in 2005, the Robert F. Almeder Prize, awarded to the student who writes the best paper at the annual Georgia State Student Philosophy Symposium.

Almeder has authored and co-authored more than a dozen books including: Beyond Death: The Evidence for Life After Death and Death and Personal Survival. He has been the editor of The American Philosophical Quarterly since 1998 and he has been co-editing the annual book series Biomedical Ethics Reviews since 1983. He has also served or is still serving on the editorial boards


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Almeder.shtml

Here we see he is a believer according to his books he wrote. Nothing special.

Julie Beischel, Ph.D:

Dr. Beischel was the first recipient of the William James Post-doctoral Fellowship in Mediumship and Survival Research at the University of Arizona where she served as Co-Director of the VERITAS Research Program until that program closed at the end of 2007.

In January 2008, Dr. Beischel moved the research, the participants, and the screening and training of prospective research mediums to the Windbridge Institute, which she co-founded. Her research interests center on the survival-of- consciousness hypothesis and include proof-focused studies of mediums' communication with discarnates and process-focused studies of mediums' experiences of that communication. Beischel's academic training in several interdisciplinary scientific fields allows her to design and apply traditional research methods to investigating these more unconventional topics of study.

Beischel is currently a member of the Society for Scientific Exploration and the Parapsychological Association, she serves on the scientific advisory boards of the Rhine Research Center and the Forever Family Foundation, and is an Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) Luminary. She has published peer-reviewed articles in journals including Journal of Scientific Exploration, Transpersonal Psychology Review, Journal of Parapsychology, Australian Journal of Parapsychology, and Explore: the Journal of Science and Healing.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Beischel.shtml

Another strong believer and parapsychology researcher. Nothing more to say besides that she publishes in all kinds of woo magazines.

Rev. Karen Herrick, Ph.D.:

She has worked with thousands of individuals and families, which has aided these clients in their growth, development and maturation. This is a spiritual experience of an "ordinary kind." By blending those efforts with the use of Jungian Psychology, during the 2000s, she explored spiritual and near-death experiences by obtaining a Ph.D. in Philosophy with a concentration in Psychology and a specialization in Spiritual Psychology. She has been very interested in the statistic that two-thirds of widow's experience having their husbands appear to them after their death.

In October of 2006, her book You're Not Finished Yet was published by Cloonfad Press. This book ends with two chapters discussing developing spiritual language by naming different spiritual experiences, understanding them and our purpose in life and in death. She continues to share her clinical experience in her office in Red Bank, NJ and by lecturing throughout the US. For more information please visit http://www.karenherrick.com. She authors a column on Spiritual Psychology for NJHolisticMagazine.com. She is also an active member of the Academy of Spirituality and Paranormal Studies, Inc. (ASPSI).


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Herrick.shtml

R. Craig Hogan, Ph.D.:

R. Craig Hogan, Ph.D., is the author of Your Eternal Self . In addition, he co-authored Induced After-Death Communication: A New Therapy for Healing Grief and Trauma with Dr. Allan Botkin (Hampton Roads 2005), co-authored the Personal Styles Inventory, wrote two books on business writing, co-authored a book training supervisors in schools to more effectively work with teachers, and developed several Web sites devoted to spiritual understanding, including adcguides.com, and greaterreality.com.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Hogan.shtml

Jane Katra, Ph.D.:

Dr. Jane Katra has practiced as a natural spiritual healer for 34 years. Katra is the coauthor, with physicist Russell Targ, of the books Miracles of Mind: Exploring Nonlocal Consciousness and Spiritual Healing, and The Heart of the Mind. Her work has been featured in the book Reinventing Medicine by Larry Dossey, and in Science of Mind, Natural Health, Alternative Therapies, New Dimensions, Spirituality and Health, and Noetic Sciences Review.

Dr. Katra transmits an evolutionary experience of naturally radiating energy, and teaches classes in Esoteric Wisdom, Psychic & Spiritual Development, Remote Viewing, Forgiveness as Transformation, Facing Death & Meeting Soul, Awakened Activism; Patanjali, Ramana Maharshi & Becoming Who We Are. Dr. Katra is active in healing research, is featured as part of The Science & Consciousness Visionary DVD Club, and has presented at Omega, Esalen, The Institute of Noetic Sciences, The Monroe Institute, The International Conference on Science & Consciousness, the Rhine Research Center where she is on the advisory board, and to medical schools and spiritual organizations internationally.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Katra.shtml

Vernon Neppe, M.D., Ph.D.:

He was educated in South Africa where he obtained both his primary Medical and Ph.D. degrees, and at Cornell University. (His additional credentials include: FRSSAf, BN&NP, DFAPA, MMed, DPM, FFPsych, FCPsych and FRCPC-10.)
Dr. Neppe founded the Pacific Neuropsychiatric Institute (PNI) in Seattle, Washington, USA, in 1992. His highly acclaimed book on brain medications and social and medical issues Cry the Beloved Mind: A Voyage of Hope provides understanding of depression; psychosis; seizures and brain firing; the way drugs work; and how supplements interact . He is also the world's leading authority on déjà vu including The Psychology of Déjà Vu, and a subsequent trilogy of books. He has written a medical forensic book for attorneys and another on psychopharmacology . He is also a playwright.
Dr. Neppe is currently working on the N-dimensional vortical paradigmatic shift which involves a major contribution to physics, biology and philosophy. He has pioneered several areas of brain research which have impacted on millions, defined new medical conditions and has developed new terminology including the literary genre of sciction. He is also an internationally renowned consciousness researcher, phenomenologist and expert on both very high intelligence and exceptional human abilities. He is also working on secure internet communications particularly HIPAA compliance.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Neppe.shtml

John L. Turner, M.D.:

John L. Turner, M.D. is a neurosurgeon who lives and practices (now part-time) in Hilo, Hawaii. He is the author of Medicine, Miracles, and Manifestations: A Doctor's Journey Through the Worlds of Divine Intervention, Near-Death Experiences, and Universal Energy.
While pursuing a Ph.D. in physics at Ohio State University, Turner read the book, The Sleeping Prophet, the life story of Edgar Cayce. His interests then changed to spirituality and healing, prompting him to pursue a career in medicine. He earned his M.D. at the Ohio State College of Medicine and completed his internship in general surgery and first year of neurosurgical residence at Ohio State. He completed his remaining three years of neurosurgical training at The Cleveland Clinic Foundation.
Dr. Turner started his medical practice in Hawaii in 1980. He began adding energy medicine to his practice around 1995 after spending 10 days in Japan studying Jorei, a channeling of a spiritual energy as taught by the late Mokichi Okada. Although the blending of Western and Eastern medicine may have raised some eyebrows among his more orthodox colleagues, Turner believes that in time they will "see the light." He says that many physicians have contacted him to find out how they can incorporate non-traditional forms of healing into their practices.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Turner.shtml

Victor Zammit, LL.B., Ph.D.:

Although initially suspicious of the New Age Movement for what appeared to be its blatant commercial exploitation of people's basic instinctual tendency for spiritual development, after many years as an open-minded skeptic, Zammit had a number of repeated psychic/mediumistic experiences which set him questioning, reading, and researching. Adopting a scientific criterion, he was able to select that information which could withstand and pass the many rigid tests of repeatability and objectivity. Currently, he does afterlife investigations virtually seven days a week.
Zammit wrote A Lawyer Presents the Case For The Afterlife (ISBN: 0-9580115-0-8), which has been translated into Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch and now is in the process of being translated into German and French. The same book has been translated into Russian and is now being sold in Russian bookshops. It is available free of charge on his website http://www.victorzammit.com.
For the last 10 years, Zammit has sent out a weekly Friday Afterlife Report to subscribers in more than seventy countries. Since 2002, Victor has had a regular half-page column in the newspaper Psychic World and is its Australian representative. (Psychic World Publishing Co. Ltd. P.O. Box 14, Greenford, Middlesex, UB6 OUF. England.) An article by journalist Francis Wilkins about Zammit's empirical afterlife research appeared in the ultra-conservative lawyers' journal Lawyers' Weekly on 27 April 2001.
Since 2001, Victor Zammit has sponsored a one-million-dollar challenge to anyone in the world who can rebut the existing evidence for the afterlife. Up 'til now, no scientist, no physicist, no biologist, no psychologist, no empiricist, no skeptical debunker - no one has been able to show where, when, how, or why the evidence is invalid.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-Board_Zammit.shtml

As for his million dollar challenge its a fluke and a lie on top of that:

Victor Zammit - a lawyer and woo promoter for near-death experiences. Zammit has a strange parallel with creationist lawyer Phillip Johnson, as he approaches evidence purely from a "legal" perspective. He writes his material from the standpoint of presenting it to a sympathetic judge and claims that the legal admissibility rules are the pinnacle of standards of evidence. He also blatantly copies James Randi by trying to offer a "million dollar prize" to any skeptic who can refute his claimed evidence. In order to get your million dollars you must convince a committee of believers that you have refuted the evidence "beyond any doubt".[4] With such a marvelous loophole Zammit, of course, will never be called on to pay and the whole thing reeks of grandstanding and misinformation.


Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/SCEPCOP

The fool even writes it here:

17. The applicant agrees that the level of proof required to rebut the evidence will be the Cartesian test, "beyond any doubt". This means that there has to be absolutely no doubt at all in the minds of the Committee that the 'evidence' has been rebutted.


Taken from: http://www.victorzammit.com/skeptics/challenge.html

Beyond any doubt. Is he mad? He also cannot prove beyond any doubt that there is a afterlife. This is a giant loop hole. It again shows that its just belief you cannot convince a believer he will believe even when all psychics would be caught or even when we create conscious robots. He will say that when we can create consciousness then god made us..

Miles Edward Allen:

Allen is the author of The Survival Files: The Most Convincing Evidence Yet Compiled for the Survival of Your Soul, and several other books on diverse topics.* He is also the sitekeeper for TheSurvivalFiles.com.
He has been an avid student of psychic and spiritual phenomena since reading Harold Sherman's How To Make ESP Work For You, while in college. (Being a secular-materialist at the time, he bought the book with every intention of making fun of it, but became convinced that the subject was worth closer examination.) He is a member of the Society for Psychical Research (SPR) and serves on the Board of Advisors of the Academy of Spirituality and Paranormal Studies (ASPSI).


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio-ExecDir.shtml

William Stoney:

It all started with reading Rhine and believing he was on to something important about our mind's abilities. In the early 50s I accidently saw "There is a Psychic World" by Horace Westwood, a Unitarian Minister then in Canada, about the development of his teenage daughter from initial success with a ouija board into a full fledged voice medium. In 1970, after a series of synchronistic events, I found myself talking to Horace's son, also a Unitarian minister, who had been a pre-teen while his sister was doing her mediumistic activities. The son testified that he saw it all, reading books held in another room, playing with concert skill on the piano without having lessons, walking a table across the floor with one hand touching its top, and of course the séances, controlled by an American Indian, during which many recently deceased soldiers (this all occurred in 1918 - 1919) came through. I had to ask myself: Is it possible that these events were all made up, that two Unitarian ministers were both either stupid or congenital liars? I could not, and still cannot, accept either of those as possibilities, and thus have had to accept that talking to the departed is a reality and that there is another level of existence. My continued reading has considerably reinforced that conclusion


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio_Research-Liaison.shtml

Michael E. Tymn:

Writing assignments have taken him to such diverse places as Bangkok, Panama, Glastonbury (England), Jerusalem, Hollywood, St. Paul, and Tombstone. He currently serves as editor of The Searchlight, a quarterly publication of the Academy of Spirituality and Paranormal Studies and as the Academy's vice president. His metaphysical and paranormal articles have appeared in FATE, Mysteries, Atlantis Rising, Vital Signs, Venture Inward, Nexus, Psychic News, Psychic Times, Christian Parapsychologist, Two Worlds, Dark Lore, Alternatives, Alternate Perceptions, The Honolulu Advertiser, The Honolulu Star-Bulletin, and The Honolulu Star-Advertiser. His 2008 book, The Articulate Dead was published by Galde Press and is available at Amazon.com
Having devoted much time to the study of psychical research over the past two decades, Mike has found strong evidence for the survival of consciousness and a more intelligent afterlife than that provided by orthodox religion. He says he is impelled to bring this evidence to the attention of others, especially those in despair.
A former nationally ranked distance runner, Mike is also the author of Running on Third Wind, a book which explores the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of running as a sport and fitness endeavor. A native of Alameda, California, Mike now lives in Kailua, Hawaii with his wife Gina.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio_Media-Rel-mgrr.shtml

Stephen H. Hall:

Hall currently pursues his interests in a variety of border sciences. He first became interested in paranormal research after hearing a presentation by Dr. David E. Jones, professor of anthropology at UCF, who wrote a book titled Visions of Time: experiments in psychic archeology. He became interested in the study of the survival of consciousness after attending a conference on the subject hosted by Dr. Gary E. Schwartz at the University of Arizona in 2002.

Hall is an active member in the following organizations:
• Academy of Spirituality and Paranormal Studies, Inc. (ASPSI)
• International Remote Viewing Association (IRVA)
• Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE)
• Windbridge Institute for Applied Research in Human Potential
• The Institute for Noetic Sciences
• Rhine Research Center
• Forever Family Foundation


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Bios/Bio_Advcy-Liaison.shtml

Conclusion:

What to say. A army of believers no skeptic among them. Oh boy and all of them are in the same organizations over and over again. Do I ask for much to have normal people study this who are not believers and are skeptical of this? I am starting to feel a deja vu every time I enter these sites with believers its the same people over and over. They are like a religion cult.

I will start to look on the stories later on.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:26 pm

Shen, Zammit basically just says that witness testimony is correct. That's how he looks at it as a "lawyer".

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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:08 am

TheUltimateBlitz1 wrote:Shen, Zammit basically just says that witness testimony is correct. That's how he looks at it as a "lawyer".


However he is wrong:

Eyewitness Misidentification

Eyewitness misidentification is the single greatest cause of wrongful convictions nationwide, playing a role in nearly 75% of convictions overturned through DNA testing.


Taken from: http://www.innocenceproject.org/underst ... cation.php

http://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2012/04/1 ... cribe-blog

http://doubtfulnews.com/2013/11/san-ant ... -crumbled/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_memory

Witnesses are not reliable and only evidence that tis needed. Zammit is a known woo proponent and is a hard believer. He also appeared on Skeptiko:

http://www.skeptiko.com/215-victor-zamm ... xperience/

He is known for hating skeptics.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:12 am

Part 2: Keeping them in the Family

This is the first case for me because the first one is covered by skeptics. I already posted that:

1963 Keeping Them In the Family [ID#77] 278 Stevenson


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

1. Problem: The woman and husband lost their children which destroyed them and later on became believers of this even written in the text:

It goes without saying that Florence Pollock and her husband, John, were horrified at the children’s demise. Florence, according to Dr. Ian Stevenson, “found the loss too fraught with suffering to think about.” John on the other hand, ”liked to think about the dead girls, although not necessarily to dwell on how they had died. He believed not only that the girls had survived death, but that they remained close to the family. On the very afternoon of their deaths, he had a vision of them in heaven.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: Its made by Ian Stevenson a known believer:

It goes without saying that Florence Pollock and her husband, John, were horrified at the children’s demise. Florence, according to Dr. Ian Stevenson, “found the loss too fraught with suffering to think about.” John on the other hand, ”liked to think about the dead girls, although not necessarily to dwell on how they had died. He believed not only that the girls had survived death, but that they remained close to the family. On the very afternoon of their deaths, he had a vision of them in heaven.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

Info here:
http://www.skepdic.com/stevenson.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson

3. Problem: The family was composed of ex-believers but the husband was a believer in reincarnation. Another problem he had visions this shows he was a strong believer:

Although he never could explain whether it was visions or some other psychic means, eight months later, when Florence became pregnant once more, John felt strongly that Joanna and Jacqueline were going to be born again, this time as twins. John was ex-Catholic who believed in reincarnation. His wife, also an ex-Catholic did not.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

4. Problem: Cherry Picking:

Between the ages of 3, when they first began talking coherently, and 6, the twins said several things supporting their father’s belief that Joanna and Jacqueline had returned.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

The problem is here that its cherry picking. They said several things but it’s a long time from 3 to 6 years. Why only several things? Why not all things which they said would confirm reincarnation? It’s hard to tell what the children said during this time and what they did not said. The parents could have just cherry picked the instances where it hit with the fathers believes. It’s hard to tell because if they are reincarnations then they should know all from the start and when they started to talk then all what they said should be the same as their previous personalities and not just several things.

5. Problem: The children were in both cities so they could have just observed the place and claim their stories:

When the twins were just a few months old, the Pollock family moved from the town of Hexham to Whitley Bay. When they were about 4 years old, the family visited Hexham for the first time since they had moved away.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

6. Problem: Vague statement as a hint of reincarnation:

When they were about 4 years old, the family visited Hexham for the first time since they had moved away. As they were approaching a park where Joanna and Jacqueline used to play, the twins announced that they wanted to go and play on the swings, yet the parents had not mentioned any swings and the park was over a hill and not yet in sight.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

From the text a rational person can tell that the girls know what the swings were. They just said a vague statement and the parents interpreted this as a sign of reincarnation. This is very vague and pathetic.

7. Problem: Another vague statement:

A little later, as they passed their old home, the both said, “We used to live there.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

Yeah another vague statement. The parents could told them this and just did not remember. Also if they are reincarnation why did the girls did not say their previous personalities names or something more stronger as evidence?

7. Problem: Another vague stuff with lunch because they said it only one day and were not complaining about it most of the time:

At Hexham, Joanna and Jacqueline had sometimes eaten their lunch at school. In Whitley Bay, the twins always came home for lunch. One day, when they were grumbling about what their mother was serving, she told them that they could always eat at school. They responded that they had done that before. “Where?” Florence asked. “At Hexham” they answered. But the twins had neither attended school at Hexham nor eaten lunch at school in Whitley Bay.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Pages: 1-2

Yeah no children can imagine eating lunch at school when he sees others children doing it? Another problem they could just make up the story they were in Hexham when they were 4 years old:

When the twins were just a few months old, the Pollock family moved from the town of Hexham to Whitley Bay. When they were about 4 years old, the family visited Hexham for the first time since they had moved away.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

Another thing is that we are not told what the parents were talking about and what the girls could have overheard from their parents. This again shows a weak case.

8. Problem: This shows that the parents could have talked more then it seems and also we are not given the description of the home:

There was one instance of recall that did not conform to the norm of forgetfulness by age 8. When she was 23, Gillian was reminiscing with her father about playing in a sandpit with her brothers in a garden by a large house. Her very detailed description perfectly matched a home and garden from which the Pollocks had moved back when Joanna was 4 years old, 8 years before Gillian was born.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

This shows that the parents were talking about it long after. The child could have received a lot of information from his parents.

9. Problem: This shows that a model is impossible for reincarnation because in this case the child remembered according to Stevenson something which she already has to forget:

There was one instance of recall that did not conform to the norm of forgetfulness by age 8. When she was 23, Gillian was reminiscing with her father about playing in a sandpit with her brothers in a garden by a large house. Her very detailed description perfectly matched a home and garden from which the Pollocks had moved back when Joanna was 4 years old, 8 years before Gillian was born.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

Here we see that Stevenson claimed that children forget about it in few years:

In several countries of Asia, as well as in other parts of the world, children can be found who at the age of two to four years start to speak of past events which they or persons around them believe to arise from memories of a previous life. Usually these alleged memories fade away after a few years and seem in most cases to disappear in the early years of primary school (Cook et al., 1983; Stevenson, 1987).


Taken from: http://www.godwin-home-page.net/Short-P ... ebirth.htm

But this one was talking about it when she was 23 years old.

10. Problem: Another problem is that this is again cherry picking. There is no way to create a model out of this or some logical way:

There was one instance of recall that did not conform to the norm of forgetfulness by age 8. When she was 23, Gillian was reminiscing with her father about playing in a sandpit with her brothers in a garden by a large house. Her very detailed description perfectly matched a home and garden from which the Pollocks had moved back when Joanna was 4 years old, 8 years before Gillian was born.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

Here we see that Stevenson claimed that children forget about it in few years:

In several countries of Asia, as well as in other parts of the world, children can be found who at the age of two to four years start to speak of past events which they or persons around them believe to arise from memories of a previous life. Usually these alleged memories fade away after a few years and seem in most cases to disappear in the early years of primary school (Cook et al., 1983; Stevenson, 1987).


Taken from: http://www.godwin-home-page.net/Short-P ... ebirth.htm

But this one was talking about it when she was 23 years old.

11. Problem: Wow the child recognized a typical woman clothing which children normally do. Children draw mothers with a long dress and father in jeans or pants and this is hint of reincarnation?:

Once when John was doing some house painting, Jennifer asked, “Why are you wearing mummy’s coat?” This “coat” was an old smock John had donned to protect his clothing from paint spatters. Florence used to wear it when she delivered milk, a job she stopped doing before the twins were born. Not only did Jennifer recognized it as her mothers, but she expressed annoyance when Gillian could not recall it. During the times when Florence was wearing the smock, Jacqueline would have been often around her mother, whereas Joanna would not have.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

The problem with the coat was that her mother could have had a similar coat like that one. Its again pathetic. Also children are keen observers she could have observed that with no problem or just said a random phrase and the family members gave it a meaning.

12. Problem: Yeah Santa Claus brought the toys and therefore it’s a hit:

Joanna’s and Jacqueline’s toys had been packed away in the attic after their death. The twins did not see the toys until they were 4 years old and their parents unpacked the box. Immediately, and without prompting, Gillian said that a doll that had been Joanna’s was hers, and Jennifer claimed a very different doll, one which had been Jacqueline’s. Jennifer correctly recalled the names – Mary and Suzanne – previously given to the dolls. They both then announced that their dolls had come from Santa Claus – which was true.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

13. Problem: Twins can have different tasted. They are not clones of each other so this is also pathetic:

Joanna’s and Jacqueline’s toys had been packed away in the attic after their death. The twins did not see the toys until they were 4 years old and their parents unpacked the box. Immediately, and without prompting, Gillian said that a doll that had been Joanna’s was hers, and Jennifer claimed a very different doll, one which had been Jacqueline’s. Jennifer correctly recalled the names – Mary and Suzanne – previously given to the dolls. They both then announced that their dolls had come from Santa Claus – which was true.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

Example here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... -a-choice/

Here also:

Breaking News: Jason Collins (NBA player) announces he's gay. His identical twin brother, Jarron, announces he's straight.


Taken from: http://www.nooneisborngay.com/

Explanation:

Identical Twins Not As Identical As Believed:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 121214.htm

14. Problem: Why did only Jennifer recalled correctly the names of the dolls and not Jacqueline also?:

Joanna’s and Jacqueline’s toys had been packed away in the attic after their death. The twins did not see the toys until they were 4 years old and their parents unpacked the box. Immediately, and without prompting, Gillian said that a doll that had been Joanna’s was hers, and Jennifer claimed a very different doll, one which had been Jacqueline’s. Jennifer correctly recalled the names – Mary and Suzanne – previously given to the dolls. They both then announced that their dolls had come from Santa Claus – which was true.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

15. Problem: They have chosen dolls. They are girls. Girls like to play with dolls:

Joanna’s and Jacqueline’s toys had been packed away in the attic after their death. The twins did not see the toys until they were 4 years old and their parents unpacked the box. Immediately, and without prompting, Gillian said that a doll that had been Joanna’s was hers, and Jennifer claimed a very different doll, one which had been Jacqueline’s. Jennifer correctly recalled the names – Mary and Suzanne – previously given to the dolls. They both then announced that their dolls had come from Santa Claus – which was true.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

I would be more interested what other toys were in the box besides the dolls.

16. Problem: Vague statement about the recognition of the way the girls died:

On considerably less joly note, althrough the twins never talked with their parents about the deaths of their sisters – and their parents certainly never mentioned the subject to them – their mother recalled that several times she overheard them discussing the event among themselves. What Ian Wilson refers to as “the most macabre incident of all, “ was witnessed by Florence when she was once peeked into the twins playroom and “found Gillian cradling Jennifers head in her hands and saying: “The blood is coming out of your eyes. That’s where the car hit our.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

The car hit them in the eyes?? The girls according to the pdf died this way which means they should have a more complicated death then then the blood coming from their eyes:

They were walking with a friend when a woman ran the children down her car.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

17. Problem: Its all anecdotal stories as we can see here because only Florence recalled something from memory:

On considerably less joly note, althrough the twins never talked with their parents about the deaths of their sisters – and their parents certainly never mentioned the subject to them – their mother recalled that several times she overheard them discussing the event among themselves. What Ian Wilson refers to as “the most macabre incident of all, “ was witnessed by Florence when she was once peeked into the twins playroom and “found Gillian cradling Jennifers head in her hands and saying: “The blood is coming out of your eyes. That’s where the car hit our.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 2

Found the original book. There are even more problems with the case:

http://books.google.sk/books?id=FGPrTir ... on&f=false

18. Problem: The girls made 6 statements and 5 recognitions which is too little because they were talking about their “past” lives from the age of 3-7 years and we get only 11 things? That is too little:

When the twins became able to speak, they made between the ages of 3 and 7 – a small number of statements about the lives of Joanna and Jacqueline. Gillian remembered the life of Joanna and Jennifer that of Jacqueline. Their parents also credited them with recognizing several places and objects known to the deceased girls but not familiar to the twins. In my detailed report of the case I listed 6 statements and 5 recognitions with which their parents credited them.


http://books.google.sk/books?id=FGPrTir ... on&f=false

19. Problem: No more details in the way of death of the children according to Stevenson:

Florence Pollock also overheard the twins talking to each other about the accident in which Joanna and Jacqueline had died; but they did not mentioned any unusual details occurring in their talk to each other.


Taken from: http://books.google.sk/books?id=FGPrTir ... on&f=false

20.Problem: Why did the twins had no scars from their death? When in other cases the children had these. The only thing which is mentioned is this:

Jennifer had two birthmarks, whereas Gillian had none. A birthmark on Jennifers forehead, near the root of her nose, corresponded to the scar of an injury that Jacqueline incurred when she felt on a bucket at the age of 3, Jennifer also had a hyperpigmented nevus on her left waist. It corresponded to a nevus Jacqueline had had at the same site. No other member of the family had a nevus at this place.


Taken from: http://books.google.sk/books?id=FGPrTir ... on&f=false

Here we can see that other children had scars from the injury that caused their death:

A correspondence between birthmark and wound was judged satisfactory if the birthmark and wound were both within an area of 10 square centimeters at the same anatomical location; in fact, many of the birthmarks and wounds were much closer to the same location than this. A medical document, usually a postmortem report, was obtained in 49 cases. The correspondence between wound and birthmark was judged satisfactory or better by the mentioned criterion in 43 (88%) of these cases and not satisfactory in 6 cases. Several different explanations seem to be required to account for the discrepant cases, and I discuss these elsewhere (Stevenson. forthcoming). Figure 1 shows a birthmark (an urea of hypopigmentation) on an Indian child who said he remembered the life of a man who had been killed with a shotgun fired at close range. Figure 2 shows the location of the wounds recorded by the pathologist. (The circles were drawn by an Indian physician who studied the postmortem report with me.)

The high proportion (88%) of concordance between wounds and birthmarks in the cases for which we obtained postmortem reports (or other confirming documents) increases confidence in the accuracy of informants' memories concerning the wounds on the deceased person in those more numerous cases for which we could obtain no medical document. Not all errors of informants memories would have resulted in attributing a correspondence between birth marks and wounds that did nor exist; in four cases (possibly five) reliance on an informant's memory would have resulted in missing a correspondence to which a medical document attested.


Taken from: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/r ... 1.html#a04

This is a major problem. This shows cherry picking because sometimes the wound is the wound that caused the death of the person or some other injury. This leaves it open for many hits and cherry picking.

21. Problem: Its all anecdotal and we have only the stories of the parents as a witness:

When the twins became able to speak, they made between the ages of 3 and 7 – a small number of statements about the lives of Joanna and Jacqueline. Gillian remembered the life of Joanna and Jennifer that of Jacqueline. Their parents also credited them with recognizing several places and objects known to the deceased girls but not familiar to the twins. In my detailed report of the case I listed 6 statements and 5 recognitions with which their parents credited them.


Taken from: http://books.google.sk/books?id=FGPrTir ... on&f=false

22. Problem: Time when Stevenson came there so a lot of infromation he has its from the parents itself where the father is a believer in reincarnation:

Stevenson also followed this family from 1964 until 1985, following up and keeping tabs on the twins.


Taken from: http://claimsofreincarnation.blogspot.s ... llock.html

The girls were born in 1958:

Gillian and Jennifer Pollock were born in Hexham, Northumberland, England on October 4, 1958.


Taken from: http://books.google.sk/books?id=FGPrTir ... on&f=false


23. Problem: Skeptic report also took a look at them:

Gillian and Jennifer Pollock

Two twin girls (aged six and eleven) are tragically killed. The father was a strong believer in reincarnation, and was sure they would be reborn to his wife as twins. Twins are born, and between the ages of 2 and 4 they start making statements about their dead siblings.

As the father believed the twins were reincarnations of their dead sisters, it is likely that he talked about it in front of the baby girls. It’s also likely that friends and family talked about the tragic death of the previous two girls. It’s hardly surprising that the girls are reported to have talked about their “previous lives”. The parents could also be reading too much into the twins’ statements, or could be lying. We’ll never know.


Taken from: http://www.skepticreport.com/sr/?p=482

24. Problem: The pdf contradicts itself here according to a blog:

Although he never could explain whether it was visions or some other psychic means, eight months later, when Florence became pregnant once more, John felt strongly that Joanna and Jacqueline were going to be born again, this time as twins. John was ex-Catholic who believed in reincarnation. His wife, also an ex-Catholic did not.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Family.pdf
Page: 1

They were not ex-Catholic:

I find this case to be intriguing because it is a case of identical twins who have different markings (such as birthmarks) which is something I have not heard of previously. As well, I find it to make Stevenson more credible since this was a case found outside of a country that typically believes in reincarnation and this was an English family who were Christian.


Taken from: http://claimsofreincarnation.blogspot.s ... llock.html

Conclusion: Parents most of the times view their children as something special. They even view them as gods sometimes or something like that. The problem here is that the whole family is troubled. They lost their children before thanks to a killer. The father could not take the grief and could become psychotic. He claimed he had visions of his children in heaven and strange stuff like that. So no surprise he felt for it. He also was a strong believer in reincarnation because of the loss. The wife could be also but does not want to claim it. Another big problem is that we have no way to check this we have only the statements of the parents. Stevenson who is a believer was not without his bias. So we have nothing more then just a nice little story. This is the problem of the whole case. For me this whole case is NOT proof of reincarnation or NOT even a hint.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:31 am

Part 3: The Prince and the Servant Girl

1976 The Prince and the Servant Girl [ID#58] 261 Iverson


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

This was already looked upon by skeptics:

http://www.skepdic.com/bloxham.html
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swi ... tapes.html

Also here:

Jane Evans, the Welsh housewife, too claimed under hypnosis to have lived six previous lives and again gave a great deal of historically accurate detail in support. In her life as a medieval maid to Jacques Coeur, a wealthy merchant in 15th century France, she was able to fully describe the exteriors and interiors of Coeur’s magnificent house and even the details of the carvings over a fireplace. This on the face of it would seem like proof, however, it should be borne in mind that Coeur’s famous house is one of the most photographed in all of France. Evan’s account of her life in the merchant’s house provides the most significant lie to her story. She said that Coeur was not married when in fact he was married and had five children, something a maid in that household would be unlikely to overlook!

How could Jane Evans be so familiar with so much detail had she not lived the life herself? The answer is suggested in a novel based on Coeur's life titled, The Moneyman, by Thomas B. Costain (1948). While the book goes into great detail about Coeur’s life it is significant in so far as it omits any mention of his wife.


Taken from: http://ed5015.tripod.com/SupernatReincarnationEdw62.htm

So I will not look into this story. It has been already commented on.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby TheUltimateBlitz1 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:56 pm

Skeptico is a joke. They're basically against woo believers that look for physical evidence. Nearly all of their podcasts are about cases being "true" because of eyewitness testimony.

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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:37 pm

Part 4:

1977 ∗ The Spirits Seller's Spirit [ID#76]


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

I also found the story here:

http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

Also here:

http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

1. Problem: He comes from Sri Lanka a places where people believe in reincarnation:

Folks in the southeastern USA would make it from corn and call it “white lightning” but on the island nation of Sri Lanka, they make it from the sap of coconut trees and call it “arrack.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

It’s even written here:

B. Selvin Fernando, who would be known by his nickname, Sammy, was born on January 3, 1919 in Gorankana, Sri Lanka. Gorankana is 10 miles or 17 kilometers south of Colombo, the capital city of Sri Lanka. Gorankana Sammy was another name Selvin was known by.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

Sri Lanka:

Sri Lanka's population practices a variety of religions. As of the 2011 census 70.2% of Sri Lankans are Theravada Buddhists, 12.6% are Hindus, 9.7% are Muslims and 7.4% Christians (6.1% Roman Catholic and 1.3% other Christian).[1] Sri Lanka was ranked the 3rd most religious country in the world by a 2008 Gallup poll, with 99% of Sri Lankans saying religion is an important part of their daily life.[2]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Sri_Lanka

They believe in reincarnation:

Theravada Buddhism generally asserts that rebirth is immediate while the Tibetan schools hold to the notion of a bardo (intermediate state) that can last up to forty-nine days.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebirth_(Buddhism)

2. Problem: The funeral of Sammy was well attended even according to the pdf. This means that the families could have some form know each other or some information leakage could have taken place:

Sammy’s funeral was exceptionally well attended, not so much by his many distraught customers, but become he was known as a generous man who gave freely to those in need. Sammy’s death by lorry (a term for truck that the Sinhalese {Sri Lankans} picked up from the British) happened in January of 1969, in the town of Gorakana. Seven months later and about 5 ½ miles away, in Mt. Lavinia – a suburb of Sri Lankas capital – the family of Ulysses and Nadine Jay welcomed a new addition whom they named Lucas.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

3. Problem: The distance between the towns is only 5 ½ miles that is not too away from each other and therefore there can be some information leakage:

Sammy’s funeral was exceptionally well attended, not so much by his many distraught customers, but become he was known as a generous man who gave freely to those in need. Sammy’s death by lorry (a term for truck that the Sinhalese {Sri Lankans} picked up from the British) happened in January of 1969, in the town of Gorakana. Seven months later and about 5 ½ miles away, in Mt. Lavinia – a suburb of Sri Lankas capital – the family of Ulysses and Nadine Jay welcomed a new addition whom they named Lucas.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

Because 1 mile is:

1 mile = 1.609344 kilometers


Taken from: http://www.calculateme.com/Length/Miles ... meters.htm

4. Problem: Vague statement of reincarnation because the child feared trucks. Wow what child would not fear a truck:

And only 8 months after that, Nadine noticed something she though was most strange. At a time when Lucas was being obstinate about taking his milk, in the midst of a conversation she happened to say the word “lorry,” whereupon the babe immediately began to suckle. It didn’t take the mother long to discover that her new child’s cooperation could be almost magically obtained by simply uttering that normally innocuous word. Cleary, but mysteriously, baby Lucas was really afraid of trucks.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

5. Problem: We do not have the complete conversation:

And only 8 months after that, Nadine noticed something she though was most strange. At a time when Lucas was being obstinate about taking his milk, in the midst of a conversation she happened to say the word “lorry,” whereupon the babe immediately began to suckle. It didn’t take the mother long to discover that her new child’s cooperation could be almost magically obtained by simply uttering that normally innocuous word. Cleary, but mysteriously, baby Lucas was really afraid of trucks.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

Also I am quite interested what else the mother said besides lorry during their conversation. She could have said that a lorry would take him away if he would not drink his milk and so on. The problem here is that we do not have the complete conversation and she could have said something during that conversation which brought fear into the child. The child then could have connected the lorry word with that of being taken away. Here in Slovakia children fear the word spoon/ladle used for cooking. This is because they received punishment with it. The mother could have easily say that if he will not drink he will be taken away by a lorry and the child got fear from it. This is the same when someone to a child says I will go for the wooden ladle/spoon and the child knows that he will get punishment and fears the ladle/spoon.

6. Problem: The name of his past live is also the name of the village where he wanted to go:

At that time, the Jays had no thoughts of reincarnation; but some 10 months later, Lucas started talking about his previous life. His name, he said was “Gorakana Sammy.” He clamored to be given cigarettes and arrack and to be taken to Gorakana.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

This sounds to me as a typical childish language connecting two words into one and giving them a meaning.

7. Problem: Sammy is not so uncommon name:

At that time, the Jays had no thoughts of reincarnation; but some 10 months later, Lucas started talking about his previous life. His name, he said was “Gorakana Sammy.” He clamored to be given cigarettes and arrack and to be taken to Gorakana.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

8. Problem: A witness here who also verified it was a Buddhist monk. I smell a bias:

So far, the tale of Lucas and Sammy may be seen typical of child-recall cases, but it has two features that make it quite special. One is that the number of confirmed facts and recognitions is exceptionally large (see the table below) as is the number of people interviewed by the research team (more then 35). The other special feature is that 16 of Lucas statements were written down by an unimpeachable witness prior to any contact with the Fernandos. The witness was a Buddhist monk who resided at a temple near Mt. Lavina. He not only recorded the statements but he followed up by going to Gorakana and verifying each of them, again before anyone who knew the Fernando family had become aware of Lucas claims.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

9. Problem: This whole case is again handled by Ian Stevenson. So again a bias and nothing new:

This is one of the thousands of cases carefully investigated by Dr. Ian Stevenson and company from the University of Virginia.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

Info here:
http://www.skepdic.com/stevenson.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson

10. Problem: A lot of the statements which were verified were from a Buddhist monk. The number of correct statements made by the child and verified by the monk are 8. You can check it here:

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
On Page: 2

11. Problem: The last item is not a hit but the pdf makes a excuse here:

The discrepancy in his last item is suggestive of an NDE, in which Sammy”s spirit exited his body and observed it lying on the road and then departed for other realms, leaving his physical body to struggle on for a few more hours.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 3

I admit that they listed the last verification as not all was correct but they then jump to this conclusion which is wrong to make excuses. Also on another web-page they claim this about the death of Sammy:

All of Sujith’s statements proved to be correct for Sammy Fernando, with the only exception being when he said that he had died immediately when the truck hit him. Sammy Fernando died one to two hours after being admitted to a hospital following the accident.


Taken from: http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

I will now look onto the web-page claims because they are some inconsistent things in the pdf.:

12. Problem: Inconsistence about the miles of distance between the cities:

This we have in the pdf:

Sammy’s funeral was exceptionally well attended, not so much by his many distraught customers, but become he was known as a generous man who gave freely to those in need. Sammy’s death by lorry (a term for truck that the Sinhalese {Sri Lankans} picked up from the British) happened in January of 1969, in the town of Gorakana. Seven months later and about 5 ½ miles away, in Mt. Lavinia – a suburb of Sri Lankas capital – the family of Ulysses and Nadine Jay welcomed a new addition whom they named Lucas.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... Seller.pdf
Page: 1

This we have on the web-page:

Sujith Lakmal Jayaratne was born on August 8, 1969, a little over six months after Sammy died. His parents lived in Mount Lavinia, which is 3 miles or 5 kilometers south of Colombo. Gorankana, the village where Sammy lived, is another 7 miles or 12 kilometers further south from Mount Lavinia. (10)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

In the pdf we have 5 ½ and on the web-page its 10 miles. However the boundaries are not so far again. It is only 17 km from each other even when we take the web-page information.

12. Problem: Here is a problem the family believed in reincarnation prior because they asked the child what he did in his past life:

Before acquiring much of a vocabulary, Sujith tried to express memories of a prior incarnation. He would use gestures and sounds to try to communicate. When he was asked what he did in the prior lifetime, he made sounds that imitated a steam locomotive engine.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

13. Problem: This is normal. The child said before that he believed he worked with locomotive engines before he could talk:

When his speech became more developed, he said that he had worked in the engines of trains and that he was fired from his railroad job. Ian Stevenson was impressed that Sujith recalled being terminated from the railroad, which occurred when Sammy was 25 years of age, which meant that almost 55 years had transpired when Sujith reported this event. (11)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

Here we see the example:

Before acquiring much of a vocabulary, Sujith tried to express memories of a prior incarnation. He would use gestures and sounds to try to communicate. When he was asked what he did in the prior lifetime, he made sounds that imitated a steam locomotive engine.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

13. Problem: The child said he was only fired from the railroad. This is a vague statement because the child said nothing more. He did not said who his boss was or any other more deeper information:

When his speech became more developed, he said that he had worked in the engines of trains and that he was fired from his railroad job. Ian Stevenson was impressed that Sujith recalled being terminated from the railroad, which occurred when Sammy was 25 years of age, which meant that almost 55 years had transpired when Sujith reported this event. (11)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

14. Problem: He talks strange a person who is reincarnated with a knowledge of a adult should have talked like a adult:

As a child, Sujith said that his name was Sammy and that he was from Gorakana. He said he was called “Gorakana Sammy.” Sujith frequently referred his father, who he said was named Jamis and who had a bad right eye. He had a tendency to speak in the present tense. For example, Sujith said, “Jamis is at Gorakana,” whereas in reality, Jamis had died in September 1970. He repeatedly asked to be taken to Gorakana. He made the statement, “This is not my home and I wish to be taken to Gorakana.” (13)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

15. Problem: Wow the child claims he went to school and wow that is so shocking because he could observe that:

Sujith said that he went to school at Kable Iskole, which means the “dilapidated school,” and that his teacher was named Francis. Sammy did indeed go to this run down elementary school and his teacher was indeed named Francis. (15)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

16. Problem: I doubt that there is only one teacher at that school. If there are more teachers that means he would be correct even when there are 10 teachers and two has the name Francis. This is vague:

Sujith said that he went to school at Kable Iskole, which means the “dilapidated school,” and that his teacher was named Francis. Sammy did indeed go to this run down elementary school and his teacher was indeed named Francis. (15)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

17. Problem: Why did he only said the name Francis and not also the second name? This would be more convincing if he would tell the whole name:

Sujith said that he went to school at Kable Iskole, which means the “dilapidated school,” and that his teacher was named Francis. Sammy did indeed go to this run down elementary school and his teacher was indeed named Francis. (15)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

18. Problem: Again why the child said only the first name and not the second one also because there can be many Miltons who are limping in that village:

Also, before he learned to talk, he tried to express that someone had fallen and became lame by imitating a person limping and using a cane. Later, when Sujith was able to converse, he told his mother that the person who fell and limped as a result was his brother in the prior lifetime, whose name was Milton, which was accurate regarding Milton Fernando. (12)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

19. Problem: Few of the things the child could calmly observe like that people give money to monks, and that there are two monks in a temple and just claimed that it happened in his past life:

Sujith said that he used to go Kale Pansala, translated as the “Forest Temple,” that two monks lived there and that he used to give money to this temple. He said one of the monks was named Amitha. Sammy did contribute to this temple, which was only 100 meters from his childhood home, and Sammy knew the monk Amitha.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

20. Problem: The child already believed that he is a reincarnation and his family believed it also so when he had a dream about being run over by a car he put this information together with his reincarnation belief:

From an early age, Sujith had a marked fear or phobia of trucks. The family didn’t understand why he had this fear. Then one night, Sujith woke up from sleep and he ran around the house waking up everyone in his family. He then informed them:

“Do you know that I was run over by a lorry and that is how I died?”

Since the English colonized Sri Lanka, the British term for truck is used by Sri Lankans, which is “lorry.” After waking up everyone to announce the cause of his death in his prior incarnation, Sujith went back to sleep.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

21. Problem: The neighbor drunk arrack so he could just seen that and wanted to try it. This could be his inspiration for the behavior also:

Since no one in his family drank alcohol, they were shocked when Sujith, as a child, asked for arrack. Subsequently, Sujith asked for arrack frequently. When he realized that his family would not comply with his requests, he would go to his neighbors to ask for arrack. One of them finally complied, but stopped giving arrack to the child when Sujith’s grandmother objected and chastised the neighbor.

At times, when he was given a soda to drink, Sujith would pretend that the beverage would make him drunk. He would weave around as if he was intoxicated and fall on the floor and say “bila,” which means, “having drunk.”

He would also assume Sammy’s drinking posture, in that he would sit in a chair with his legs drawn up. After taking a sip of the soda, he would make a sound with his throat that arrack drinkers make. He would then wipe his mouth, as if he was removing traces of an irritating, strong alcoholic drink from his lips, again, a behavior typical of arrack drinkers.

At other times, Sujith would just fall to the ground and say, “I am drunk,” even without the soda. (18)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

22. Problem: He was just playing a game as a child that is normal. Many children like to play that they are drunk when they see a drunk person and I think he could have seen this by his neighbor:

Since no one in his family drank alcohol, they were shocked when Sujith, as a child, asked for arrack. Subsequently, Sujith asked for arrack frequently. When he realized that his family would not comply with his requests, he would go to his neighbors to ask for arrack. One of them finally complied, but stopped giving arrack to the child when Sujith’s grandmother objected and chastised the neighbor.

At times, when he was given a soda to drink, Sujith would pretend that the beverage would make him drunk. He would weave around as if he was intoxicated and fall on the floor and say “bila,” which means, “having drunk.”

He would also assume Sammy’s drinking posture, in that he would sit in a chair with his legs drawn up. After taking a sip of the soda, he would make a sound with his throat that arrack drinkers make. He would then wipe his mouth, as if he was removing traces of an irritating, strong alcoholic drink from his lips, again, a behavior typical of arrack drinkers.

At other times, Sujith would just fall to the ground and say, “I am drunk,” even without the soda. (18)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

23. Problem: The family began to believe the child:

The family came to believe that Sujith had a past incarnation in Gorakana, but they didn’t know anyone in that village to approach. The family had a relative, Wattarappola Nadaratana, who was a monk. When he heard about Sujith’s remarks alluding to a past lifetime, he documented these statements and decided to investigate.

Wattarappola went to Gorakana to make inquiries. There he met Kusuma Dabare, Sammy’s favorite niece, on March 13, 1972, and he told her about Sujith’s statements. At first, she did not know what to make of the situation, but she went home and consulted with her family about Sujith’s past life memories. (24)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

23. Problem: The second problem is that they had a Buddhist monk in the family and there could the child learn some of the things how it works in temples:

The family came to believe that Sujith had a past incarnation in Gorakana, but they didn’t know anyone in that village to approach. The family had a relative, Wattarappola Nadaratana, who was a monk. When he heard about Sujith’s remarks alluding to a past lifetime, he documented these statements and decided to investigate.

Wattarappola went to Gorakana to make inquiries. There he met Kusuma Dabare, Sammy’s favorite niece, on March 13, 1972, and he told her about Sujith’s statements. At first, she did not know what to make of the situation, but she went home and consulted with her family about Sujith’s past life memories. (24)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

24. Problem: Why does the child behave like a child and not as a reincarnation? He is frightened as a child:

Kusuma traveled to Mt. Lavinia two days later, on March 15, 1972, and sought out Wattarappola, who said it was premature to meet Sujith. Instead, he said he would return to Gorakana and meet with Sammy’s family. He did so and confirmed that Sujith’s statements were accurate regarding the lifetime of Sammy Fernando.

News spread through the Fernando family and Kusuma and 10 others from Gorakana arrived at Sujith’s home on March 30, 1972. The sight of such a large party frightened Sujith. He held onto his mother and said nothing.

She returned the next day with only 4 others. Sujith recognized her and called Kusuma by name. Sujith also recognized one of the other visitors, Sammy’s nephew, and called him by his name, Kithsiri. (25)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

25. Problem: There was a large crowd he could overheard some information when the crowd was talking to each other:

On another occasion, a distant relative of Sammy Fernando named Princie came to Sujith’s home and stood in front of the house. Though a large crowd was present along with her, Sujith recognized her and said, “Come in. Come in.” He correctly said, “You are Princie.” (26)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

26. Problem: She came not alone so the child could overheard something and even the news spread so its information leakage:

Kusuma traveled to Mt. Lavinia two days later, on March 15, 1972, and sought out Wattarappola, who said it was premature to meet Sujith. Instead, he said he would return to Gorakana and meet with Sammy’s family. He did so and confirmed that Sujith’s statements were accurate regarding the lifetime of Sammy Fernando.

News spread through the Fernando family and Kusuma and 10 others from Gorakana arrived at Sujith’s home on March 30, 1972. The sight of such a large party frightened Sujith. He held onto his mother and said nothing.

She returned the next day with only 4 others. Sujith recognized her and called Kusuma by name. Sujith also recognized one of the other visitors, Sammy’s nephew, and called him by his name, Kithsiri. (25)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

27. Problem: Why did the child not speak for 20 minutes and was silent?

Maggie, Sammy’s widow, came to visit Sujith in Mount Lavinia. Wattarappola, who was convinced that Sujith’s family did not know who she was at the time of their first meeting, documented the scene. His narrative of events follows:

“On April 3, 1972, Maggilin Alwis called on the child's house accompanied by a couple of other ladies of the same age group. For about 20 minutes, the child did not speak. Thereafter he suddenly called out ‘Maggie’ to one lady and said: ‘Maggie is going down the road.’

We enquired from the lady whether she was named correctly. She said her late husband always called her Maggie, and that when he came home drunk and picked a quarrel with her, she always walked down the road.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

28. Problem: This is a typical childish behavior and not a behavior of an reincarnated adult:

Maggie, Sammy’s widow, came to visit Sujith in Mount Lavinia. Wattarappola, who was convinced that Sujith’s family did not know who she was at the time of their first meeting, documented the scene. His narrative of events follows:

“On April 3, 1972, Maggilin Alwis called on the child's house accompanied by a couple of other ladies of the same age group. For about 20 minutes, the child did not speak. Thereafter he suddenly called out ‘Maggie’ to one lady and said: ‘Maggie is going down the road.’

We enquired from the lady whether she was named correctly. She said her late husband always called her Maggie, and that when he came home drunk and picked a quarrel with her, she always walked down the road.

After this the child ran inside the house. During his absence I got all the visitors into a room unseen by the child and I myself remained on the veranda. The child came out after a few minutes and very excitedly started calling out:

‘Where is Maggilin? Where is Maggilin? Went to Gorakana. Went to Gorakana.’

He started running about in the house and dashed into the room where the ladies were.

‘I love you Maggie, I love you Maggie,’ he said to Maggilin.

The lady started crying and embraced the child lovingly. The child said:

‘Look what you did to me. Look what you did to me.’

We inquired of her what this meant. She explained that on the day Sammy Fernando met his death, he came home roaring drunk and started to quarrel with her. She fled down the road and he started chasing her and was knocked down by a lorry.

Later when the party, along with Maggalin, were leaving [to return] Gorakana, the child became restive and wanted to go along with them.” (27)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

29. Problem: He only addressed him like a friend. Its hard to tell because many things in Sri Lanka are open for interpretation because the child could only come to him and say Hi and it would look like he addressed him like a old friend to people:

When another of Sammy’s drinking companions, Wimalasdasa de Alwis, came to visit him, little Sujith addressed the middle-aged man like a familiar old friend, and asked him for arrack. (28)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

30. Problem: This is a typical behavior of a spoiled brat:

Ian Stevenson witnessed Sujith kick one of the neighbors with “great zeal and persistence,” and he also saw Sujith hit another individual, who was minding his own business, with a fist. Stevenson also saw Sujith spit on his grandmother.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

31. Problem: Again the family interpreted this. So we have only the interpretation of the family because they got the impression:

Another parallel occurred in relation to Maggie. In July 1973, when Sujith was almost 4 years old, he announced that he was going to go to Maggie's house and not return. He said he would sleep at Maggie's house, and the family got the impression that his intention was not just to sleep.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

I found another web-page where the case is. The page is this one:

http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

This page shows more information.

32. Problem: Not everything was written down:

Sujith had also told his mother and grandmother a number of other things about the previous life that no one wrote down until after the previous personality had been identified.


Taken from: http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

33. Problem: Everything was confirmed by a Buddhist monk a believer which shows bias:

His great-uncle, a monk at a nearby temple, heard some of them and mentioned Sujith to a younger monk at the temple. The story interested this monk, so he talked with Sujith, who was a little more than two-and-a-half years old at the time, about his memories, and then wrote up notes of the conversations before he attempted to verify any of the statements.


Taken from: http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

34. Problem: Not everything the boy said was correct:

All of Sujith’s statements proved to be correct for Sammy Fernando, with the only exception being when he said that he had died immediately when the truck hit him. Sammy Fernando died one to two hours after being admitted to a hospital following the accident.


Taken from: http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

35. Problem: Stevenson came there after the fact. So all we have is the word of the families:

Dr. Stevenson interviewed witnesses a year after Sammy Fernando had first been identified as the previous personality.


Taken from: http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

36. Problem: There are people in the village where Sujith was and they knew about Sammy:

Dr. Stevenson discovered that though Sujith’s and Sammy’s families had not known each other before the case developed, two people in Sujith’s neighborhood had connections to Sammy Fernando. Sujith’s family knew one of them, a former drinking buddy of Sammy, slightly, and the other one, Sammy’s younger sister, not at all.


Taken from: http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

37. Problem: The child knew a neighbor from who he asked alcohol and this neighbor could also knew about Sammy:

Since no one in his family drank alcohol, they were shocked when Sujith, as a child, asked for arrack. Subsequently, Sujith asked for arrack frequently. When he realized that his family would not comply with his requests, he would go to his neighbors to ask for arrack. One of them finally complied, but stopped giving arrack to the child when Sujith’s grandmother objected and chastised the neighbor.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

Here we see the neighbor:

Dr. Stevenson discovered that though Sujith’s and Sammy’s families had not known each other before the case developed, two people in Sujith’s neighborhood had connections to Sammy Fernando. Sujith’s family knew one of them, a former drinking buddy of Sammy, slightly, and the other one, Sammy’s younger sister, not at all.


Taken from: http://kuriakon00.tripod.com/reincarnat ... tory4.html

38. Problem: Ian Stevenson was very quickly impressed and a lot of times:

Ian Stevenson was impressed that Sujith recalled being terminated from the railroad, which occurred when Sammy was 25 years of age, which meant that almost 55 years had transpired when Sujith reported this event. (11)

Ian Stevenson was especially impressed at Sujith’s knowledge of the term Gorakawatte, as it was an old term for the area that had not been used for several decades. In the years before Sujith’s birth, a new name, Ampityawatte, was used for the neighborhood. (14)

Ian Stevenson was also impressed that Sujith knew the term Kale Pansala.

Again, Ian Stevenson was impressed how far back in Sammy’s lifetime Sujith could access memories. (16)


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=rei ... ter-semkiw

Conclusion of part 4: This case is pathetic. There is a lot of information leakage and there are some problems with it because some of the information is mangled as distance of the villages. Another problem is that it was confirmed by believers and everything is after the fact. Stevenson came after a year when the families were already certain that they are dealing with a reincarnated case. It’s also all anecdotal. So I would not trust it because the child behaves like a child and not like a reincarnated adult in some instances. For me this whole case is NOT proof of reincarnation or NOT even a hint.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

Whitedude
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Whitedude » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:41 pm

Good research Shen. There's actually 40 on the list 20 alleged spirit cases and 20 reincarnation. I will only cover the spirit-cases.

One very easy one to debunk is the Raymond photograph. Raymond was the son of Oliver Lodge.

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... aymond.pdf

The author Miles Edward Allen writes:

Lodge must be ranked among the most trustworthy men who ever lived.


But no he wasn't. We know Oliver Lodge was credulous when it came to spiritualism:

The Spiritualist beliefs and publications of Lodge sold well to the public but were not accepted by the scientific community.[23] In 1913 the biologist Ray Lankester criticised the Spiritualist views of Lodge as unscientific and misleading the public.[24] Joseph McCabe wrote a skeptical book on the Spiritualist beliefs of Lodge entitled The Religion of Sir Oliver Lodge (1914).[25]

Edward Clodd criticized Lodge as being an incompetent researcher to detect fraud and claimed his spiritualist beliefs were based on magical thinking and primitive superstition.[26] Charles Arthur Mercier a specialist in insanity wrote in his book Spiritualism and Sir Oliver Lodge (1917) that Lodge had been duped into believing mediumship by trickery and his Spiritualist views were based on assumptions and not scientific evidence.[27]

According to the magician John Booth the stage mentalist David Devant managed to fool a number of people into believing he had genuine psychic ability who did not realize that his feats were magic tricks. At St. George's Hall, London he performed a fake "clairvoyant" act where he would read a message sealed inside an envelope. Oliver Lodge who was present in the audience was duped by the trick and claimed that Devant had used psychic powers. In 1936 Devant in his book Secrets of My Magic revealed the trick method he had used.[28]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Lodge

Lodge was not reliable. As for the photograph itself the medium could have easily obtained it, she had plenty of time outside of the séances. Walter Mann commented on this in 1919.

There is not the slightest doubt in the present writer's mind that Mrs. Leonard had seen the photo in question. Let us go over the dates again. Captain Boast sent the negatives to England, where they arrived on October 15, 1915. A large number of copies appear to have been printed-there were twenty-one officers and their friends to supply. On November 28 Mrs. Cheves had six in her possession, with a key to the names, and wrote offering Lady Lodge a copy, which was not sent until December, 7 after an interval of nine days. On November 28, then it was common knowledge in Sir Oliver's household that the photo existed. On December 3, five days later, Mrs. Leonard describes the photo at a sitting with Sir Oliver. Five days gave ample time for her to obtain a copy of the photo; and the unfortunate delay of Mrs. Cheves in not sending her copy until the 7th gave just the chance needed to work the miracle.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_Osborne_Leonard

The medium also failed to name a single soldier from the photograph, if you look at the photograph there's 21 soldiers. Surely if Raymond was really communicating through the medium he would of identified his soldier friends? Yet not a single name was given. This is not evidence for spirit communication and it's absolutely stupid that spiritualists claim such a thing.
I am not longer posting on this forum. Too busy in real life with other interests.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:36 pm

Part 5: The Number of the Beast

1978 The Numbers of the Beast [ID#21] 268 Netherton


http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf can be found here:

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf

1. Problem: The whole story is from Dr. Netherton a known believer:

During a training demonstration in Brazil, Dr. Netherton regressed a young woman suffering from agoraphobia. (the fear of being in open places). Starting when she was 16 years of age, her fears had steadily grown until she was very uncomfortable when not near he home and she trusted only her immediate family. {See case #20, “Death In The Garment District“ for information on Dr. Netherton}


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the information that he is a known believer:

Dr. Morris Netherton’s first experience with past life therapy began in the early 1960’s, when his family physician unconventionally recommended he see a psychotherapist for his ulcers and dermatitis. During his therapy, he became sleepy and expressed his inability to stay awake for the session. His therapist said, “Let’s keep going and see what happens.” She kept talking while Netherton fell into a trance. He was fully aware of his surroundings and her voice, but his unconscious mind took him to a past-life where he was a prisoner in Mexico around the mid-nineteenth century. His therapist was alarmed and had misgivings about continuing the session, but he insisted that they keep at it.

On his way back home, his dermatitis disappeared, which was reinforced by unjust tethering to a post in the blazing sun. The dermatitis was a re-manifestation of his painful sun blisters from a past-life. During the second visit, he experienced the life in prison again. The guards were kicking him in the gut exactly where he had an ulcer. He led the therapist to his past-life death, where he died from diphtheria. A day after his therapy session, he was pain-free. It was at that pivotal moment Morris Netherton committed to learning how to enabling others to release themselves from suffering too.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

2. Problem: Its interesting that he developed his technique himself also. Oh boy another self-born healer:

Since Dr. Morris Netherton didn’t have a mentor or school to teach him this new technique and discovery, there was no structure or discipline involved. His subjects were recalling past-lives, prenatal, birth, surgeries, and other forgotten traumatic experiences. This was the genesis of the Netherton Method of Past Life Therapy and one of the vanguards of the alternative medicine movement of the 1960s. Because his techniques incorporated spirit, conception, mind, body, and soul, it didn’t fit the scientific model, which led to many skeptics. Alternative approaches today are still persecuted by licensing laws, insurance companies, and doctrinal research. However, since he first developed his theories and techniques new studies have come out that have garnered more acceptance of past life regression therapies in the world of traditional psychology.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

3. Problem: Dr. Netherton is against psychics. Wow the believers will not like him but still cite him. Wow:

Psychics are becoming more popular and are claiming to do past life regressions. They may tell clients what their past-lives were without allowing them to discover, process, and integrate the past-life for themselves. This is only a reading and interpretation from a psychic, and is not a proper past life regression, or Past Life Therapy. The Netherton-Paul Method of Past Life Therapy (Past Life Therapy Center® De-Hypnosis Method) is only facilitated as a therapeutic process and not intended for recreation.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

4. Problem: He is a believer in reincarnation:

In Western cultures, reincarnation is in its infancy. The philosophical concept of reincarnation, however, is ancient. The belief is most commonly associated with Eastern religions. Among the ancient Greeks, Pythagoras led an influential religious order supporting the doctrine of reincarnation. The Kabala, a collection of Jewish mystical lore, also acknowledges the idea of past lives. Early Christians debated the notion for several centuries. Many supported the doctrine of the third-century teacher Origen, who attempted to blend the Christian and Greek philosophies into a coherent whole. Reincarnation was an integral part of his teaching. Origen believed in the “pre-existence of souls” and wrote in the 4th century: “Each soul comes into this world reinforced by victories or enfeebled by the defeats of its previous lives.” In A.D. 533, however, a council of the church, meeting in Constantinople, pronounced Origen’s teaching anathema to Christian belief. His books were burned and he was shunned. Although Christianity rejected the belief in reincarnation, it re-emerged in the sixteenth century. Traces of it can be found throughout Renaissance thought, and in the writings of major romantic poets like Blake and Shelley, and even the novelist Balzac. By the eighteenth century it was no longer threatening, but absurd to many, that we could live more than once. In the West today, the belief has drastically changed, but is still misunderstood. Eastern Philosophy is slowly saturating the West and creating more conscious awareness about past-lives.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

5. Problem: He is pro-karma:

Do I have to believe in karma?

What actually is karma and how does it effect reincarnation? In Buddhism, it is believed that karma is the natural law of cause and effect. Karma is the driving force behind reincarnation, which is also called, “rebirth.” Karma is often misunderstood in the West as fate or predestination. It is best thought of in Buddhism; an infallible law of cause and effect that governs the universe. Everything we do is accumulated in this life, then taken through the death experience and then reborn again. Karma does not decay like external things, or even become inoperative. It cannot be destroyed “by time, fire, or water.” Its power will never disappear, until it is ripened. We are told that nature, using a river, took ten millions years to dig the Grand Canyon. Can we expect a man’s soul to be perfected in sixty to seventy-five years? Buddha said: “Do not overlook negative actions merely because they are small; however small a spark may be, it can burn down a haystack as big as a mountain.”

Karma, “The Secret”, and Past Life Therapy : What is karma? How can Past Life Therapy utilizing de-hypnosis resolve karma?


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

6. Problem: This is total garbage. Nothing in the brain works like a tape recorder because memories are mangled and the brain can be fooled:

The unconscious mind operates like a tape recorder. Indiscriminately, it records and stores any and every event that takes place. Your conscious mind may refuse to acknowledge or remember the more painful and terrifying events in your life, but the unconscious mind never shuts down. Picture a tape recorder that is continuously in record mode. It’s stored with information that provides the conscious mind with emotions that will shape our perceptions and reality and how we come to feel and express ourselves. This is the basis for one’s entire personality, regardless if one is conscious of it. When the unconscious mind is tapped (we push the playback button on the tape recorder), recall is discovered.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

7. Problem: He quotes Stanislav Groff. Not this woo master again:

Czechoslovakian psychiatrist Stanislav Groff tells how one man under medication was able to describe his fetal body very accurately – how large his head was in comparison to his legs and arms – what it felt like to be in a warm amniotic fluid, and to be attached to his placenta. Then, while describing his heart sounds and those of his mothers, he suddenly broke off midway and announced he could hear muffled noises outside the womb – the laughter and yelling of human voices and the tinny blast of carnival trumpets. Just as suddenly and inexplicably, the man declared he was about to be delivered. Intrigued by the vividness and detail of this memory, Grof contacted the patient’s mother, who not only confirmed the details of her son’s story, but also added that the excitement of a carnival had precipitated his birth.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

Info on Grof:

V roce 2001 mu Český klub skeptiků Sisyfos udělil bronzový Bludný balvan za „přetavení šamanských praktik hyperventilace do tak zvaného holotropního dýchání, skrze něž lze způsobit v mozku chemickou bouři a navodit tak přiotrávenému mimořádné pocity a zážitky“.[5] V roce 2007 mu byl udělen ještě i diamantový bludný balvan s odůvodněním: „Navozování a zkoumání stavů holotropního vědomí, které láme pouta časoprostoru a dokáže tudíž kdykoli a kamkoli vlézt.“ Stanislav Grof se tak stal jedinou osobou v kategorii jednotlivců, která získala bludný balvan více než jedenkrát.[6][9] Grof přitom byl dále kritizován za to, že považuje za reálné jevy ohýbání lžic mentální silou, telepatii, či zázračné extrakční operace filipínských léčitelů.[5]


Taken from: http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Grof#Kritika

I will translate but not the whole text. I am tired of this fool:

Stanislav Grof received criticism and a skeptic “award” more then once from the Sisyfos skeptic club in Czech republic. Grof believes in telekinesis that metal spoons can be bounded like Uri Geller and Grof believes in the existence of telepathy or special healing by Philippines healers.

8. Problem: He quotes Wilhelm Reich another person who became a woo believer:

Wilhelm Reich (1887-1957) once-famed psychoanalyst, associate and follower of Sigmund Freud, initiated breath work with his patients. Through vigorous breathing exercise and muscle contractions, his patients were able to release deep emotions while re-experiencing their birth.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

Wilhelm Reich is a woo proponent:

Orgone energy is an alleged type of "primordial cosmic energy" discovered by Dr. Wilhelm Reich (1897-1957) in the late 1930s. Reich was an Austrian immigrant to the U.S. who had been trained as a medical doctor, psychiatrist, and Freudian psychoanalyst.

Reich claimed that orgone energy is omnipresent and accounts for such things as the color of the sky, gravity, galaxies, the failure of most political revolutions, and a good orgasm. In living beings, orgone is called bio-energy or Life Energy. Reich believed that orgone energy is "demonstrable visually, thermically, electroscopically and by means of Geiger-Mueller counters."* However, only true believers in orgone energy (i.e., orgonomists practicing the science of orgonomy) have been able to find success with the demonstrations.


Taken from: http://www.skepdic.com/orgone.html

9. Problem: Stanislav Grof is quoted more times who is a woo proponent:

Stanislav Grof used LSD for his studies, and found that his subjects were able to feel the struggle in the womb before birth. He now uses intensive breathing practices rather than LSD and still finds prenatal imagery fully accessible to consciousness. Dr. Morris Netherton used a similar approach that directs awareness of the primal feelings.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

Also here:

When Stanislav Grof was facilitating LSD psychotherapy in the 60s, his clients experienced the violence of birth along with symbolic images that now may be conceived as past-lives and past-life deaths. In these sessions, the struggle of the newborn trying to survive appeared to be synonymous to a person trying not to die. The deaths of the past-lives are usually similar to one’s present birth. The unresolved issues from past-lives are inexplicably re-stimulated by all external influences outside the fetus. For example, the fetus will pick up and record the energy, feelings, and vibrations that are around him. If there is chaos in his new home, this could re-stimulate a past-life where he is a wounded and dying soldier in the war trying to get home. He leaves one battlefield with confusion around home, love, and values, and is reborn into a home with the same circumstances to work out spiritually, emotionally, physically, and psychologically. His past-life death may come from a blow to the head. In his present life, having the pressure of forceps on his head during his delivery re-stimulates that past-life blow, causing him to have migraines.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

Here we can see that Grof is a woo proponent:

V roce 2001 mu Český klub skeptiků Sisyfos udělil bronzový Bludný balvan za „přetavení šamanských praktik hyperventilace do tak zvaného holotropního dýchání, skrze něž lze způsobit v mozku chemickou bouři a navodit tak přiotrávenému mimořádné pocity a zážitky“.[5] V roce 2007 mu byl udělen ještě i diamantový bludný balvan s odůvodněním: „Navozování a zkoumání stavů holotropního vědomí, které láme pouta časoprostoru a dokáže tudíž kdykoli a kamkoli vlézt.“ Stanislav Grof se tak stal jedinou osobou v kategorii jednotlivců, která získala bludný balvan více než jedenkrát.[6][9] Grof přitom byl dále kritizován za to, že považuje za reálné jevy ohýbání lžic mentální silou, telepatii, či zázračné extrakční operace filipínských léčitelů.[5]


Taken from: http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Grof#Kritika

I will translate but not the whole text. I am tired of this fool:

Stanislav Grof received criticism and a skeptic “award” more then once from the Sisyfos skeptic club in Czech republic. Grof believes in telekinesis that metal spoons can be bounded like Uri Geller and Grof believes in the existence of telepathy or special healing by Philippines healers.

10. Problem: Netherton is a believer in karma and souls:

Not all births are violent or chaotic, but the people who experience a peaceful birth rarely end up in my office. By portraying these case studies, I hope mothers are relieved from any guilt they have in regards to their child’s birth and outcome. Mothers and fathers are not the only ones that are making this choice. Every infant comes into the world with his or her own unfinished karmic dramas. A soul will be drawn to certain mothers and fathers to give it the best possible opportunities to resolve its karmic business. Netherton states that soul or psychic tape is by no means blank, either in utero or at birth. Processing one’s birth and previous past-lives, is a gift of understanding the sacred contract that was made at the time of one’s conception with one’s parents.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

11. Problem: More woo and showing that Netherton is a believer:

For 45 years, I have processed over forty thousand sessions in which people lifted the boundaries of their minds and changed their lives. Many sought therapy to heal physical and emotional pain and did, indeed, free themselves of addictions, phobias, and physical problems. Many others, however, expanded their lives by exploring the far boundaries of their soul’s evolution. They discovered earlier existences in which events and situations continue to create the structure of their lives today. They learned that spiritual evolution determines who they are from cell to soul. The exploration of this evolutionary process is what I call Past Life Therapy.

I am filled with wonder as I watch clients identify, relive and release unresolved issues from experiences across the vast expanses of time. In a process which brings the unconscious conscious, the mind is allowed to resolve the events that have unknowingly motivated and influenced the current life experience. Through exploration and integration of these events, today’s living becomes free of past influences and gains the ability to make choices—and to respond instead of react.

One of my basic goals in developing this process of the mind’s integration and healing was to create change in the current life at both the finite and infinite levels. Expanding the infinite or spiritual mind must not hinder the ability to live successfully in the work-a-day finite world. An integrated life will achieve the ability to overcome struggle and confusion. It will also create an opportunity for personal and financial fulfillment.

The integration of mind, body and soul motivates each session. The mind is drawn to situations that contain the unconscious perception that we will not survive. The fears of survival are eliminated when unconscious experiences, which contain pain, trauma and confusion, are resolved and questions answered. In the process of discovery, the mind first asks the questions, and then provides the answers. The mind is the ultimate source of survival. You have the answer to every question in your life.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/St ... usion.html

11. Problem: More of his beliefs:

The first years of my work revealed these patterns in the individual and the ways in which the individual was determined and controlled by them. My first book, Past Lives Therapy (Wm. Morrow, 1978) presented this process of unconscious discovery in a basic structure. The latter years of my practice have shown these patterns to exist in families, towns, states, countries, and finally, the world. Strangers In The Land Of Confusion reveals the larger patterns of spiritual evolution stemming from the on-going cycle of death and rebirth.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/St ... usion.html

12. He believes in God also:

Another question I am often asked is why did I choose this field of work and why have I maintained such a single-focus of attention for so long? Why have I never digressed to other areas of alternative treatment for mental and spiritual growth? The answer to both is simple: I have always found the answers to my own life’s questions within the study and practice of this process, and it has always proven to be an effective healing process.

There are five basic beliefs which have become clear to me from years of work and self-exploration. They speak to basic truths of the human spirit as I now believe them to be.

Belief Number One: We each follow a unique infinite path.

The first is simply recognition of the unique infinite being that lives in each of us. In The Development of Personality, Carl Jung offers this description of our evolvement to the infinite. “….about the midday of life, our miraculous human nature enforces the transition that leads from the first half of life to the second. A metamorphosis from a state in which man is only a tool of instinctive nature, to another in which he is no longer a tool, but himself: a transformation of nature into culture, or instinct into spirit.”

When applied to reincarnation, the above expands to describe Darwin’s Theory of man’s evolution from primitive to modern beings. Each physical experience is another step in our evolutionary process towards completion as an infinite being. Our earliest physical lives were guided by the instinct for survival when we responded almost entirely to the demands of flight or fight and the urges to feed ourselves and to reproduce. For eons of time, our pathways on Earth have led us away from these primitive beginnings toward a more enlightened way of living with ourselves and others. This may be hard to realize in view of the Earth’s history of violence and destruction, but these eras were part of the ongoing process of evolution set in motion during the earliest days of life on this planet.

Belief Number Two: Conception is a point of transition from the past to the present.

The second belief accepts conception and pregnancy as the time during which the mind’s unconscious script is formulated. This brings forward the unresolved issues and dynamics from past lives, which will formulate the developing fetus’s unconscious patterns for survival. While the developing fetal body is kept alive by its mother, the spirit is also adapting to accommodate the physical form which will be viable at the time of birth. At birth, the conscious mind accepts the preexisting unconscious scripts as the authority from which beliefs and behavior patterns will be formulated. As the conscious mind continues to be motivated by unconscious patterns, the process of spiritual evolution is ongoing for both positive and negative past-life experiences. The situation which caused death in a previous life is, once again, in place to be resolved and healed in your current life.

Belief Number Three: Birth begins the conscious process of survival.

The third belief centers on birth as the first complete experience of moving forward in life and, as such, it concretizes both negative and positive survival patterns to be utilized throughout the coming years. Your experience during birth will determine the patterns which will motivate your life decisions, relationships and achievements. In The Soul’s Code, In Search of Character and Calling, James Hillman writes that “you and I and every single person are born with a defining image.” While he does not hypothesize past-experiences to be the source of this image, he clearly recognizes that a newborn baby brings innate intelligence, abilities, and experiences which will grow and flourish through the coming years.

Belief Number Four: What we experience in the past determines who we are now.

The fourth belief is in response to yet another question I am asked frequently during lectures: “Even if past lives do exist, what does that mean to my life today? That was then and this is now.’ To answer this, I once again use the nine months of pregnancy as an example. During each month of pregnancy, the fetus physically develops what the preceding month makes possible. Each stage of its growth and development uses the prior stage as a foundation upon which to build until viability is reached.

It is much the same with the soul’s evolutionary process as each lifetime builds and expands upon the experiences of those preceding it. This current life experience is a reflection of a stage of growth and development your soul has achieved thus far. Past lives, therefore, are important because they constitute the basis of our identity (and they hold the key to resolving what needs to be completed to move towards the next stage in one’s development).

Belief Number Five: God exists to make possible all things.

Our soul’s journey which takes us through confusion, fear, anger, and sadness to a state of completion, with its joy and happiness, is possible if we recognize that God exists as a benign, nurturing, nourishing, supporting environment. Within this environment everything in the universe is made available to us in order to complete our evolutionary journey. To quote T.S. Elliot’s words: “The end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time."


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/St ... usion.html

13. Problem: This is all holistic/alternative therapy:

In compliance with federal and state laws, Past Life Therapy is considered alternative/holistic therapy. PLTC cannot provide medical advice or medical services and does not claim to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure diseases. Past Life Therapy Center Los Angeles provides a uniquely thorough form of past life regression, hypnotherapy and hypnosis for enabling clients to overcome an array of health, personal and professional challenges.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/St ... usion.html

14. Problem: Now to the story. The numbers into the arms were not burn down. They were tattooed when they arrived at the camp:

While regressed, she recalled a life that ended in a Nazi concentration camp. According to her story, when she arrived at the camp, a guard burned an identification number into her arm.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

Here we can see that they were tattooed and not burned into flesh:

As the number of prisoners brought to the expanding Auschwitz complex rose, so did the death rate. But if a corpse were separated from its uniform, identification was rendered all but impossible. With often hundreds of prisoners dying per day, other methods of identification were needed. In Birkenau, the method used to tattoo the Soviet prisoners of war was implemented for emaciated prisoners whose deaths were imminent; the tattoos were later made with pen and ink on the upper left forearm. By 1942, Jews had become the predominant group represented at Auschwitz. They were tattooed based on numbers in the regular series until 1944; their numbers were preceded by a triangle, most likely to identify them as Jews.

By spring of 1943 most of the prisoners were being tattooed, even those who had been registered previously. There were, however, notable exceptions. Ethnic Germans, reeducation prisoners, police prisoners, and inmates selected for immediate extermination were not tattooed.

While it cannot be determined with absolute certainty, it seems that tattooing was implemented mainly for ease of identification whether in the case of death or escape; the practice continued until the last days of Auschwitz.


Taken from: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... toos1.html

15. Problem: This sounds like a total woo drama. With the only witness is Netherton and his colleague who also said that it was burned into flesh. This is not true:

As she told of this, she suddenly began screaming and clutching at her arm. Netherton noticed red welts appearing on the woman’s arm. These began to resolve themselves into numbers. An elderly psychologist sitting nearby jumped up and rolled up his sleeve to show similar numbers that had been burned into his arm at just such a camp. The man was so excited that it took a while for Dr. Netherton to calm him down so that the session could continue.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

16. Problem: All the information the woman said she could make up:

While regressed, she recalled a life that ended in a Nazi concentration camp. According to her story, when she arrived at the camp, a guard burned an identification number into her arm. As she told of this, she suddenly began screaming and clutching at her arm. Netherton noticed red welts appearing on the woman’s arm. These began to resolve themselves into numbers. An elderly psychologist sitting nearby jumped up and rolled up his sleeve to show similar numbers that had been burned into his arm at just such a camp. The man was so excited that it took a while for Dr. Netherton to calm him down so that the session could continue.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

This whole tale happened in the year 1978 when everything about the Nazi Concentration camp process was known:

1978 The Numbers of the Beast [ID#21] 268 Netherton


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

17. Problem: The girl could have made it up also with the help of Netherton and his colleague who were present there:

While regressed, she recalled a life that ended in a Nazi concentration camp. According to her story, when she arrived at the camp, a guard burned an identification number into her arm. As she told of this, she suddenly began screaming and clutching at her arm. Netherton noticed red welts appearing on the woman’s arm. These began to resolve themselves into numbers. An elderly psychologist sitting nearby jumped up and rolled up his sleeve to show similar numbers that had been burned into his arm at just such a camp. The man was so excited that it took a while for Dr. Netherton to calm him down so that the session could continue.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

19. Problem: The numbers faded away and we have no evidence besides their words because no photo is in the pdf file:

During the session the recalled personality gave numerous facts identifying herself, her family, and the camp. She said that she died after suffering through several months of exposure to the harsh elements there. The numbers of the subject’s arm faded away when the session ended. But, an assistant at the demonstration had taken a photograph of the numbers and an inquiry was made by sending only that identification number to the Holocaust Museum in Israel. The report send back by the museum described a young girl whose name, birth date, parent’s name, village of birth, and date of death perfectly matched the facts given by the subject.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

20. Problem: The statement of death is very vague because this was a very typical death in concentration camps:

During the session the recalled personality gave numerous facts identifying herself, her family, and the camp. She said that she died after suffering through several months of exposure to the harsh elements there.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

21. Problem: The number could have been read somewhere and all could have been made into a show. The pdf gives no picture of the number, no confirming letter from the museum or a request. We should only believe what its written there no facts are given even the name of the girl, family and other things:

During the session the recalled personality gave numerous facts identifying herself, her family, and the camp. She said that she died after suffering through several months of exposure to the harsh elements there. The numbers of the subject’s arm faded away when the session ended. But, an assistant at the demonstration had taken a photograph of the numbers and an inquiry was made by sending only that identification number to the Holocaust Museum in Israel. The report send back by the museum described a young girl whose name, birth date, parent’s name, village of birth, and date of death perfectly matched the facts given by the subject.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

22. Problem: We are not even given the first name of the person who was regressed:

During a training demonstration in Brazil, Dr. Netherton regressed a young woman suffering from agoraphobia. (the fear of being in open places). Starting when she was 16 years of age, her fears had steadily grown until she was very uncomfortable when not near he home and she trusted only her immediate family. {See case #20, “Death In The Garment District“ for information on Dr. Netherton}


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

23. Problem: All we have is according to Dr. Netherton and nothing more:

According to Dr. Netherton the experience” changed the young’s lady feelings, and she began returning to her normal life.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

24. Problem: Skeptics have already looked on Past-life regression therapy:

past life regression

Past life regression (PLR) is the alleged journeying into one's past lives while hypnotized. While it is true that many patients recall past lives, it is highly probable that their memories are false memories. The memories are from experiences in this life, pure products of the imagination, intentional or unintentional suggestions from the hypnotist, or confabulations.

Some New Age therapists do PLR therapy under the guise of personal growth; others under the guise of healing. As a tool for New Age explorers, there may be little harm in encouraging people to remember what are probably false memories about their living in earlier centuries or for encouraging them to go forward in time and glimpse into the future. But as a method of healing, it must be apparent even to the most superficial of therapists that there are great dangers in encouraging patients to create delusions. Some false memories may be harmless, but others can be devastating. They can increase a person's suffering, as well as destroy loving relationships with family members. The care with which hypnosis should be used seems obvious.

Some therapists think hypnosis opens a window to the unconscious mind where memories of past lives are stored. How memories of past lives get into the unconscious mind of a person is not known, but advocates loosely adhere to a doctrine of reincarnation, even though such a doctrine does not require a belief in the unconscious mind as a reservoir of memories of past lives.

PLR therapists claim that past life regression is essential to healing and helping their patients. Some therapists claim that past life therapy can help even those who don't believe in past lives. The practice is given undeserved credibility because of the credentials of some of its leading advocates, e.g., Brian L. Weiss, M.D., who is a graduate of Columbia University and Yale Medical School and Chairman Emeritus of Psychiatry at the Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami. There are no medical internships in PLR therapy, nor does being a medical doctor grant one special authority in metaphysics, the occult or the supernatural.

reincarnation and PLR

Psychologist Robert Baker demonstrated that belief in reincarnation is the greatest predictor of whether a subject would have a past-life memory while under past life regression hypnotherapy. Furthermore, Baker demonstrated that the subject's expectations significantly affect the past-life regressive session. He divided a group of 60 students into three groups. He told the first group that they were about to experience an exciting new therapy that could help them uncover their past lives. Eighty-five per cent in this group were successful in "remembering" a past life. He told the second group that they were to learn about a therapy which may or may not work to engender past-life memories. In this group, the success rate was 60%. He told the third group that the therapy was crazy and that normal people generally do not experience a past life. Only 10% of this group had a past-life "memory."

There are at least two attractive features of past life regression. Since therapists charge by the hour, the need to explore centuries instead of years will greatly extend the length of time a patient will need to be "treated," thereby increasing the cost of therapy. Secondly, the therapist and patient can usually speculate wildly without much fear of being contradicted by the facts. However, this can backfire if anyone bothers to investigate the matter, as in the case of Bridey Murphy, the case that started this craze in 1952.


Taken from: http://www.skepdic.com/pastlife.html

25. Problem: Stevenson a known believer in reincarnation was skeptical of past life regression:

On the positive side, however, I agree with him that past life regressive therapy, which uses hypnosis, is rife with methodological problems, not the least of which is the problem with suggestion contaminating any evidence that might be uncovered for a past life. Hence, past life regression cannot provide good evidence for reincarnation.


Taken from: http://www.skepdic.com/stevenson.html

Dr. Netherton uses hypnosis:

In compliance with federal and state laws, Past Life Therapy is considered alternative/holistic therapy. PLTC cannot provide medical advice or medical services and does not claim to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure diseases. Past Life Therapy Center Los Angeles provides a uniquely thorough form of past life regression, hypnotherapy and hypnosis for enabling clients to overcome an array of health, personal and professional challenges.


Taken from:
http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/St ... usion.html

Its also here:

The Netherton-Paul Method, or Past Life Therapy Center® De-Hypnosis Method (developed by Dr. Thomas Paul and Dr. Morris Netherton), encompasses similar techniques and theories of psychotherapy and hypnotherapy; however, the boundaries are lifted from the unconscious mind, enabling the client to resolve present-life issues rooted in unresolved past experiences (UPE).


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

26. Problem: Wow this is total woo comparing mediums to hypnosis as of both are genuine:

What most people do not understand is that being hypnotized is like being in a trance. It is a special state of the mind in which the body is relaxed and the mind is able to pay attention to inner experience without criticism or judgment. You may have experienced these light trance-like states of mind by a long drive, meditation, watching a movie, or just daydreaming. You pay little or no attention to your surroundings and relax the analytical mind. But at the same time you can be more aware of your emotions. In medium trances, it could be described as an out-of-body experience. You are still aware of your surroundings, but it’s more like dreaming. In deeper trances, people are less aware of their bodies. This type of trance is used to produce hypnotic analgesia and anesthesia for people who are allergic to pain killers.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

27. Problem: Here they even claim that hypnosis is good to open someone to suggestibility and to stop being logical and analytical:

Hypnosis is just a tool to create better suggestibility or bypass the left hemisphere of the brain, which functions as the linear, logical, analytical side. The right hemisphere is of the brain is where one’s autobiographical data is. It encompasses self-awareness, intense and primal emotions, and an integrated sense of the body. Tapping into this part of the brain creates catharsis, change, and movement. Hypnosis helps alleviate any resistance that may occur in the analytical brain during processing. The job of the analytical brain is to scrutinize, discern, and create other filters and defense mechanisms in order to survive. However, one needs to learn how to turn it off, so it can allow the healing properties of therapy to take positive and lasting effect on one’s unconscious mind. Once the new blueprint is recorded, it naturally blends with the conscious mind for processing and integration.


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html


Conclusion of part 5: I have found 27 problems which show why do I not buy this story. There is too little information and the source is no source at all. There are known problems with past live therapy which show that people are induced with fake memories that do not exist. Another problem is that this whole story can be made up. There were countless people who died in Concentration Camps who could have similar fate or even similar sounding names. The person could have been known and the story happened in the year 1978 where a lot of facts about Concentration camps were known. So I do not take this “story” as a proof of anything because there are not even names mentioned and not even the previous personality. This is again NO proof of reincarnation or NOT even a hint of it. This is a pathetic anecdote.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:42 pm

Part 6: Death In The Garment District

Here we have another new case:

1978 Death In The Garment District [ID#20] 268 Netherton


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf of the story can be found here:

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf

1. Problem: Its from Dr. Morris Netherton who is a known believer which was highlighted in part 5:

Dr. Morris Netherton began specializing in what he terms “Past Lives Therapy” around 1970. He does not call what he does “hypnosis” as he relies on word associations rather than the more common types of trance induction, but his methods seem to work well for accessing traumas in past and pre-natal lives.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: Miss Rita lived from 1903-1933 so and he published his book in 1970 and even the patient claimed this in 1970.

Dr. Morris Netherton began specializing in what he terms “Past Lives Therapy” around 1970. He does not call what he does “hypnosis” as he relies on word associations rather than the more common types of trance induction, but his methods seem to work well for accessing traumas in past and pre-natal lives. In 1978 he published a collection of his cases that includes several with exceptional verification; one of these is the story of Rita McCullum. During regression, a patient related numerous trials and tribulations of a personality named Rita, who was born in 1903. We shall limit our coverage of Rita’s tale to the period beginning in the late 1920’s in midtown Manhattan. She and her husband, Keith McCullum, had finally brought their fledgling clothing company to the brink of success. In the winter of 1928, the over-work involved in this accomplishment resulted in Keith contracting pneumonia and dying. Only one year later, Rita’s son died of polio. That October, 1929 the stock market crashed and the Great Depression began. Despite her heroic struggles over the next few years, Rita ended up broke and alone and suicidal. On the 11th of June 1933, a destitute and despondent Rita McCullum went into the cutting room of her defunct factory, looped a rope over the bars that were used to hold garments, and hung herself. Such is the tale that was told by a regressed patient in Dr. Netherton’s office in the mid-1970’s.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

3. Problem: All the know facts could have been somewhere to look up because Rita had a company and could have been known:

In 1978 he published a collection of his cases that includes several with exceptional verification; one of these is the story of Rita McCullum. During regression, a patient related numerous trials and tribulations of a personality named Rita, who was born in 1903. We shall limit our coverage of Rita’s tale to the period beginning in the late 1920’s in midtown Manhattan. She and her husband, Keith McCullum, had finally brought their fledgling clothing company to the brink of success.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

4. Problem: The only person who confirmed this is again only Dr. Netherton and in the pdf is no copy of the record given as a picture:

Such is the tale that was told by a regressed patient in Dr. Netherton’s office in the mid-1970’s. And such is the tale confirmed by a notarized death certificate that Netherton later obtained from the New York City Hall of Records. The certificate states that one Rita McCullum, age 30(and thus born in 1903) committed suicide by hanging on 11 June 1933 at an address in the heart of the garment district in Manhattan.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

5. Problem: The pdf also limits itself to some details:

We shall limit our coverage of Rita’s tale to the period beginning in the late 1920’s in midtown Manhattan.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

6. Problem: From the certificate we only know only two things when she was born and how she died the rest can be made up:

On the 11th of June 1933, a destitute and despondent Rita McCullum went into the cutting room of her defunct factory, looped a rope over the bars that were used to hold garments, and hung herself. Such is the tale that was told by a regressed patient in Dr. Netherton’s office in the mid-1970’s. And such is the tale confirmed by a notarized death certificate that Netherton later obtained from the New York City Hall of Records. The certificate states that one Rita McCullum, age 30(and thus born in 1903) committed suicide by hanging on 11 June 1933 at an address in the heart of the garment district in Manhattan.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

7. Problem: This story is whole even with names at least of the previous personality but the story before in part 5 is no name mentioned in it:

Dr. Morris Netherton began specializing in what he terms “Past Lives Therapy” around 1970. He does not call what he does “hypnosis” as he relies on word associations rather than the more common types of trance induction, but his methods seem to work well for accessing traumas in past and pre-natal lives. In 1978 he published a collection of his cases that includes several with exceptional verification; one of these is the story of Rita McCullum. During regression, a patient related numerous trials and tribulations of a personality named Rita, who was born in 1903. We shall limit our coverage of Rita’s tale to the period beginning in the late 1920’s in midtown Manhattan. She and her husband, Keith McCullum, had finally brought their fledgling clothing company to the brink of success. In the winter of 1928, the over-work involved in this accomplishment resulted in Keith contracting pneumonia and dying. Only one year later, Rita’s son died of polio. That October, 1929 the stock market crashed and the Great Depression began. Despite her heroic struggles over the next few years, Rita ended up broke and alone and suicidal. On the 11th of June 1933, a destitute and despondent Rita McCullum went into the cutting room of her defunct factory, looped a rope over the bars that were used to hold garments, and hung herself. Such is the tale that was told by a regressed patient in Dr. Netherton’s office in the mid-1970’s. And such is the tale confirmed by a notarized death certificate that Netherton later obtained from the New York City Hall of Records. The certificate states that one Rita McCullum, age 30(and thus born in 1903) committed suicide by hanging on 11 June 1933 at an address in the heart of the garment district in Manhattan.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

The story from part 5:

During a training demonstration in Brazil, Dr. Netherton regressed a young woman suffering from agoraphobia. (the fear of being in open places). Starting when she was 16 years of age, her fears had steadily grown until she was very uncomfortable when not near he home and she trusted only her immediate family. {See case #20, “Death In The Garment District“ for information on Dr. Netherton}. While regressed, she recalled a life that ended in a Nazi concentration camp. According to her story, when she arrived at the camp, a guard burned an identification number into her arm. As she told of this, she suddenly began screaming and clutching at her arm. Netherton noticed red welts appearing on the woman’s arm. These began to resolve themselves into numbers. An elderly psychologist sitting nearby jumped up and rolled up his sleeve to show similar numbers that had been burned into his arm at just such a camp. The man was so excited that it took a while for Dr. Netherton to calm him down so that the session could continue. During the session the recalled personality gave numerous facts identifying herself, her family, and the camp. She said that she died after suffering through several months of exposure to the harsh elements there. The numbers of the subject’s arm faded away when the session ended. But, an assistant at the demonstration had taken a photograph of the numbers and an inquiry was made by sending only that identification number to the Holocaust Museum in Israel. The report send back by the museum described a young girl whose name, birth date, parent’s name, village of birth, and date of death perfectly matched the facts given by the subject. According to Dr. Netherton, the experience” changed the young lady’s feelings, and she began returning to her normal life.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... -beast.pdf
Page: 1

8. Problem: Dr. Netherton makes a living out of his therapies:

Dr. Morris Netherton began specializing in what he terms “Past Lives Therapy” around 1970. He does not call what he does “hypnosis” as he relies on word associations rather than the more common types of trance induction, but his methods seem to work well for accessing traumas in past and pre-natal lives.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

Like we can see here:

In compliance with federal and state laws, Past Life Therapy is considered alternative/holistic therapy. PLTC cannot provide medical advice or medical services and does not claim to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure diseases. Past Life Therapy Center Los Angeles provides a uniquely thorough form of past life regression, hypnotherapy and hypnosis for enabling clients to overcome an array of health, personal and professional challenges.


Taken from:
http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/St ... usion.html

Its also here:

The Netherton-Paul Method, or Past Life Therapy Center® De-Hypnosis Method (developed by Dr. Thomas Paul and Dr. Morris Netherton), encompasses similar techniques and theories of psychotherapy and hypnotherapy; however, the boundaries are lifted from the unconscious mind, enabling the client to resolve present-life issues rooted in unresolved past experiences (UPE).


Taken from: http://www.pastlifetherapycenter.com/Th ... ethod.html

9. Problem: Its all anecdotal. It’s a story even with the certificate because the person who came there could have made this up:

Such is the tale that was told by a regressed patient in Dr. Netherton’s office in the mid-1970’s.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

10. Problem: The pdf states that there is one Rita that means there could have been more Rita’s with that name:

And such is the tale confirmed by a notarized death certificate that Netherton later obtained from the New York City Hall of Records. The certificate states that one Rita McCullum, age 30(and thus born in 1903) committed suicide by hanging on 11 June 1933 at an address in the heart of the garment district in Manhattan.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

11. Problem: She died in the garment district there is no information that she owned a company:

And such is the tale confirmed by a notarized death certificate that Netherton later obtained from the New York City Hall of Records. The certificate states that one Rita McCullum, age 30(and thus born in 1903) committed suicide by hanging on 11 June 1933 at an address in the heart of the garment district in Manhattan.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... arment.pdf
Page: 1

12. Problem: He verified only the death of that woman which is strange because he had a proof of reincarnation at his hands but no just one detail is enough:

The date of death was indeed June 11, 1903, and the patient had reported. There has been no attempt to verify anything, about this particular woman except her death, but the agreement of that detail along with the story patient narrated seems quite remarkable to me.


Taken from: http://books.google.sk/books?id=7hegAgA ... on&f=false

Conclusion of part 6: The problem here is that its from the same person and the only evidence we have are again from the same person. The whole story is anecdotal there is no certificate in the pdf. Another problem is that even when there was a certificate we do not have tapes of the sessions and we do not know how gullible the patient was and what role did the doctor play in creating this fantasy during hypnosis like I wrote in part 5. Also if the doctor was able to access the certificate it could be that the patient or the doctor made up the story thanks to this information. We would also need to check the patient’s background if he does not know about Rita McCullum before or if he did not read about it or if he does not work in the New York City Hall of Records. There are other problems also that the certificate states only some facts which however are nothing so shocking because it was the Great Depression and a lot of people committed suicide when they lost their jobs or their firms. It even happens today when someone goes bankrupt then he commits suicide or when he looses a job. It’s hard to tell what was made up by the doctor or the patient and what is true. Another problem is that the woman was known she had a company and even her death could have been in the media or newspapers in that era and the patient could have read that because the patient came there in the years 1970s this is 37 years after the event at least. There is also another problem there is little information available in the pdf. So for me this case is NOT proof of reincarnation or it is NOT even a hint of reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

More on Past life regression:

Past life regression is a technique that uses hypnosis to recover what practitioners believe are memories of past lives or incarnations, though others regard them as fantasies or delusions or a type of confabulation. Past life regression is typically undertaken either in pursuit of a spiritual experience, or in a psychotherapeutic setting. Most advocates loosely adhere to beliefs about reincarnation,[1] though religious traditions that incorporate reincarnation generally do not include the idea of repressed memories of past lives.[2]

The technique used during past life regression involves the subject answering a series of questions while hypnotized to reveal identity and events of alleged past lives, a method similar to that used in recovered memory therapy and one that similarly misrepresents memory as a faithful recording of previous events rather than a constructed set of recollections. The use of hypnosis and suggestive questions makes the subject particularly likely to hold distorted or false memories.[3] The source of the memories is more likely cryptomnesia and confabulations that combine experiences, knowledge, imagination and suggestion or guidance from the hypnotist than recall of a previous existence. Once created, the memories are indistinguishable from memories based on events that occurred during the subject's life.[1][2] Memories reported during past life regression have been investigated, and revealed historical inaccuracies that are easily explained through a basic knowledge of history, elements of popular culture or books that discuss historical events. Experiments with subjects undergoing past life regression indicate that a belief in reincarnation and suggestions by the hypnotist are the two most important factors regarding the contents of memories reported.[1][4][5]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression

Here also:

A 1976 study found that 40% of hypnotizable subjects described new identities and used different names when given a suggestion to regress past their birth.[4] In the 1990s a series of experiments undertaken by Nicholas Spanos examined the nature of past life memories. Descriptions of alleged past lives were found to be extremely elaborate, with vivid, detailed descriptions. Subjects who reported memories of past lives exhibited high hypnotizability, and patients demonstrated that the expectations conveyed by the experimenter were most important in determining the characteristics of the reported memories. The degree to which the memories were considered credible by the experimental subjects was correlated most significantly to the subjects' beliefs about reincarnation and their expectation to remember a past life rather than hypnotizability. Spanos' research leads him to the conclusion that past lives are not memories, but actually social constructions based on patients acting "as if" they were someone else, but with significant flaws that would not be expected of actual memories. To create these memories, Spanos' subjects drew upon the expectations established by authority figures and information outside of the experiment such as television, novels, life experiences and their own desires.[4]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:51 am

Part 7: Coming Back Down Under

Here is the new case:

1981 Coming Back Down Under [ID#78] 276 Ramster


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf can be found here:

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf

1. Problem: He is a hard believer:

These hypnotic sessions were part of a series of experiments by hypnotist Peter Ramster designed to explore the possibility of gaining solid evidence for reincarnation.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: He was looking for evidence this changes it a lot. People show that they want their beliefs to be true and therefore he was looking for evidence for his belief (researcher bias). This is not science this is confirming belief therefore researcher bias:

These hypnotic sessions were part of a series of experiments by hypnotist Peter Ramster designed to explore the possibility of gaining solid evidence for reincarnation.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 1


3. Problem: He is a very hard believer. Info that Peter Ramster is a very hard believer:

Peter Ramster is a retired clinical psychologist. He is also a film maker and author. He began
practice in the early 1970s in Sydney Australia. He specialized in hypnosis and analytical
hypnotic procedures for the purpose of treating psychological problems and found that people
would sometimes spontaneously recall past lives while working on their problems. It led him to
dedicate much of his life to ascertaining the validity or otherwise of such recall. The evidence
uncovered for its validity was extraordinary and led him to realise the memories were real. This
led him to further exploration about the unseen world beyond death and the purpose and
meaning of life. By the 1980s he had uncovered substantial evidence for the reality of
reincarnation and had an unexpected dream telling him that God was beside him on his path of
life. At that time he was not a believer in God. In addition to his psychological work and
research, his life began to include predictive dreams and messages in dreams that guided his
life and his understanding of life. It led him on his own personal spiritual journey that led him
to an understanding of God and to the spiritual purpose of life on earth. His work has been
written of in other’s books as well as his own, and shown in films and television programs
around the world. In the later part of his life Peter Ramster began a non-profit organisation
called Aramai Global, dedicated to the dissemination of knowledge linked to his research and
the research of some others. It was the beginning of his final destination as indicated to him
through dreams. These volumes outline the research and findings of Peter Ramster as well as
his own personal extraordinary journey of life.


Taken from: http://aramaiglobal.org/files/The-Code- ... -Vol-2.pdf
Page: 4

4. Problem: Even Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker raised doubts about it:

Peter RamsterEdit

Peter Ramster, a psychotherapist, has used trance and hypnosis that induced a number of patients to make claims about past lives. Four of these patients, housewives who had never left Australia and who, under trance, had come up with all sorts of details, and names of people and places, were taken to Western European countries where they said they had been living in the 18th and 19th century. Prior to their arrival, in 1983, Ramster and local historians searched archives, looking for and finding the names given in Australia. Similarly, villages and hamlets mentioned under hypnosis were found on old maps. Some of these settlements no longer existed, yet some names given turned out to be correct.

The most suggestive case of all, according to Ramster, is Gwen McDonald who said she was Rose Duncan in Somerset, England, at the end of the 18th century. She described various details in England that appeared correct when they were then researched, such as the location of stepping stones. Ramster writes: "Short of some other explanation to the contrary, I have personally come to believe in the truth of both life after death and reincarnation." (Ramster, 1990). The investigation of the McDonald case was witnessed throughout by Dr. Basil Cottle of Bristol University.

Ramster's research has almost completely been ignored by the scientific community, and scientists such as Ian Stevenson and Jim Tucker have some concerns about past life regression. [9]


Taken from: http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Reincarnation_research

5. Problem: He is using hypnosis which can create false memories:

These hypnotic sessions were part of a series of experiments by hypnotist Peter Ramster designed to explore the possibility of gaining solid evidence for reincarnation.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the info:

Past life regression is a technique that uses hypnosis to recover what practitioners believe are memories of past lives or incarnations, though others regard them as fantasies or delusions or a type of confabulation. Past life regression is typically undertaken either in pursuit of a spiritual experience, or in a psychotherapeutic setting. Most advocates loosely adhere to beliefs about reincarnation,[1] though religious traditions that incorporate reincarnation generally do not include the idea of repressed memories of past lives.[2]

The technique used during past life regression involves the subject answering a series of questions while hypnotized to reveal identity and events of alleged past lives, a method similar to that used in recovered memory therapy and one that similarly misrepresents memory as a faithful recording of previous events rather than a constructed set of recollections. The use of hypnosis and suggestive questions makes the subject particularly likely to hold distorted or false memories.[3] The source of the memories is more likely cryptomnesia and confabulations that combine experiences, knowledge, imagination and suggestion or guidance from the hypnotist than recall of a previous existence. Once created, the memories are indistinguishable from memories based on events that occurred during the subject's life.[1][2] Memories reported during past life regression have been investigated, and revealed historical inaccuracies that are easily explained through a basic knowledge of history, elements of popular culture or books that discuss historical events. Experiments with subjects undergoing past life regression indicate that a belief in reincarnation and suggestions by the hypnotist are the two most important factors regarding the contents of memories reported.[1][4][5]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression

Here also:

A 1976 study found that 40% of hypnotizable subjects described new identities and used different names when given a suggestion to regress past their birth.[4] In the 1990s a series of experiments undertaken by Nicholas Spanos examined the nature of past life memories. Descriptions of alleged past lives were found to be extremely elaborate, with vivid, detailed descriptions. Subjects who reported memories of past lives exhibited high hypnotizability, and patients demonstrated that the expectations conveyed by the experimenter were most important in determining the characteristics of the reported memories. The degree to which the memories were considered credible by the experimental subjects was correlated most significantly to the subjects' beliefs about reincarnation and their expectation to remember a past life rather than hypnotizability. Spanos' research leads him to the conclusion that past lives are not memories, but actually social constructions based on patients acting "as if" they were someone else, but with significant flaws that would not be expected of actual memories. To create these memories, Spanos' subjects drew upon the expectations established by authority figures and information outside of the experiment such as television, novels, life experiences and their own desires.[4]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression

Also here:

past life regression

Past life regression (PLR) is the alleged journeying into one's past lives while hypnotized. While it is true that many patients recall past lives, it is highly probable that their memories are false memories. The memories are from experiences in this life, pure products of the imagination, intentional or unintentional suggestions from the hypnotist, or confabulations.

Some New Age therapists do PLR therapy under the guise of personal growth; others under the guise of healing. As a tool for New Age explorers, there may be little harm in encouraging people to remember what are probably false memories about their living in earlier centuries or for encouraging them to go forward in time and glimpse into the future. But as a method of healing, it must be apparent even to the most superficial of therapists that there are great dangers in encouraging patients to create delusions. Some false memories may be harmless, but others can be devastating. They can increase a person's suffering, as well as destroy loving relationships with family members. The care with which hypnosis should be used seems obvious.

Some therapists think hypnosis opens a window to the unconscious mind where memories of past lives are stored. How memories of past lives get into the unconscious mind of a person is not known, but advocates loosely adhere to a doctrine of reincarnation, even though such a doctrine does not require a belief in the unconscious mind as a reservoir of memories of past lives.

PLR therapists claim that past life regression is essential to healing and helping their patients. Some therapists claim that past life therapy can help even those who don't believe in past lives. The practice is given undeserved credibility because of the credentials of some of its leading advocates, e.g., Brian L. Weiss, M.D., who is a graduate of Columbia University and Yale Medical School and Chairman Emeritus of Psychiatry at the Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami. There are no medical internships in PLR therapy, nor does being a medical doctor grant one special authority in metaphysics, the occult or the supernatural.

reincarnation and PLR

Psychologist Robert Baker demonstrated that belief in reincarnation is the greatest predictor of whether a subject would have a past-life memory while under past life regression hypnotherapy. Furthermore, Baker demonstrated that the subject's expectations significantly affect the past-life regressive session. He divided a group of 60 students into three groups. He told the first group that they were about to experience an exciting new therapy that could help them uncover their past lives. Eighty-five per cent in this group were successful in "remembering" a past life. He told the second group that they were to learn about a therapy which may or may not work to engender past-life memories. In this group, the success rate was 60%. He told the third group that the therapy was crazy and that normal people generally do not experience a past life. Only 10% of this group had a past-life "memory."

There are at least two attractive features of past life regression. Since therapists charge by the hour, the need to explore centuries instead of years will greatly extend the length of time a patient will need to be "treated," thereby increasing the cost of therapy. Secondly, the therapist and patient can usually speculate wildly without much fear of being contradicted by the facts. However, this can backfire if anyone bothers to investigate the matter, as in the case of Bridey Murphy, the case that started this craze in 1952.


Taken from: http://www.skepdic.com/pastlife.html

6. Problem: Why the heck is everyone important. Why everyone was someone in the past:

She also recalled being an important person in civic affairs, being involved with the town council. Her/his name was Dr. James Burns.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 1

7. Problem: She went to the place that she was in her “past life”. Wow this is so double blind:

Once I had an understanding of everything she recalled, Helen was taken to Scotland, to Blairgowrie.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 1

Let’s not forget she claimed this under hypnosis:

While under hypnosis is Sydney, Australia, Helen Pickering recalled a past life as a male doctor in Scotland during the early 19th century. She recalled having studied at the University of Aberdeen and practicing medicine in the small Scottish town of Blairgowrie.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 1

8. Problem: University of Aberdeen is a very well known and a old institution:

The University of Aberdeen is a public research-focused university in the city of Aberdeen, Scotland. It is an ancient university founded in 1495 when William Elphinstone, Bishop of Aberdeen, petitioned Pope Alexander VI on behalf of James IV, King of Scots to create King's College.[3] This makes it Scotland's third-oldest university (after the University of St. Andrews and the University of Glasgow) and fifth-oldest in the English-speaking world. The university as it is today was formed in 1860 by a merger between King's College (which had always referred to itself as the University of Aberdeen) and Marischal College, a second university founded in 1593 in Aberdeen city centre as a Protestant alternative to King's College. Today, the University of Aberdeen is one of two universities in Aberdeen (the other is The Robert Gordon University).

The university's iconic buildings act as symbols of the City of Aberdeen, particularly Marischal College in the city centre and the spire of King's College in Old Aberdeen. There are two campuses; the main King's College campus is at Old Aberdeen approximately two miles north of the city centre, around the original site of King's College, although most campus buildings were constructed in the 20th century during a period of expansion. The university's Foresterhill campus is located next to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary and houses the School of Medicine and Dentistry and School of Medical Sciences.

The University has approximately 13,500 students from undergraduate to doctoral level, including many international students. There are also large numbers of Masters and PhD students. In addition, the university's Centre for Lifelong Learning acts as an extension college, offering higher education courses to the local community even for those without the usual qualifications for admission to degree-level study. A full range of disciplines are offered and in 2012 the university offered over 650 undergraduate degree programmes.

Five Nobel Prize winners are associated with the University.[4] Other academics and graduates of the University include many distinguished figures, including: physicist James Clerk Maxwell; Thomas Reid, the founder of the Scottish School of Common Sense and an important figure in the Scottish Enlightenment; philosopher Robert Adamson; educationalist and philosopher Alexander Bain; and theologian William Robinson Clark.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Aberdeen

9. Problem: The University is well known and thanks to some history books she could easily create this scenario. The case happened in 1981:

1981 Coming Back Down Under [ID#78] 276 Ramster


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

10. Problem: Blairgowrie in Scotland is very well known:

While under hypnosis is Sydney, Australia, Helen Pickering recalled a past life as a male doctor in Scotland during the early 19th century. She recalled having studied at the University of Aberdeen and practicing medicine in the small Scottish town of Blairgowrie.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 1

We can see it here and its not a small town:

Blairgowrie and Rattray (/blɛərˈɡaʊri ənd ˈrætreɪ/) is a twin burgh in Perth and Kinross, Scotland. Amongst locals, the town is colloquially known simply as "Blair". Blairgowrie is the larger of the two former burghs which were united by an Act of Parliament in 1928 and lies on the south-west side of the River Ericht while Rattray is on the north-east side. Rattray claims to be the older and certainly Old Rattray, the area round Rattray Kirk, dates back to the 12th century. New Rattray, the area along the Boat Brae and Balmoral Road dates from 1777 when the River was spanned by the Brig o' Blair. The town lies on the north side of Strathmore at the foot of the Grampian Mountains. The west boundary is formed by the Knockie, a round grassy hill which is a popular walk and Craighall Gorge on the Ericht. Blairgowrie and Rattray developed over the centuries at the crossroads of several important historic routes with links from the town to Perth, Coupar Angus, Alyth and Braemar. The roads to Coupar Angus and Braemar form part of General Wade's military road from Perth to Fort George. The town's main feature and centrepiece is the Wellmeadow, a grassy triangle in the middle of town which hosts regular markets and outdoor entertainment.

Following the restoration of city status on Perth in 2012,[3] Blairgowrie and Rattray has become the largest town in Perthshire.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blairgowrie_and_Rattray

10. Problem: Blairgowrie is very old and known:

While under hypnosis is Sydney, Australia, Helen Pickering recalled a past life as a male doctor in Scotland during the early 19th century. She recalled having studied at the University of Aberdeen and practicing medicine in the small Scottish town of Blairgowrie.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 1

Here we can see that its quite old:

The area around Blairgowrie has been occupied continuously since the Neolithic, as evidenced from the Cleaven Dyke, a cursus monument 2 miles SSW of the town,[9] as well as a Neolithic long mortuary enclosure 4 miles WSW at Inchtuthil.[10] Several stone circles of this age can also be found in the area, notably the circle bisected by the road at Leys of Marlee, 1 mile to the west of Blairgowrie.[11]

Numerous Neolithic and Bronze Age artifacts have been found in the immediate area, including a number of flint arrowheads, spearheads, knives and scrapers found at Carsie, half a mile to the south of Blairgowrie, and which are now displayed at Perth Museum,[12] and bronze axes,[13] and a bronze sword now in Kelvingrove Museum, Glasgow.[14]

The remains of a Roman legionary fort can be found 4 miles WSW of Blairgowrie at Inchtuthil, dating from the decade 80-90. Unencumbered by subsequent development, this is considered to be one of the most important archaeological sites in Britain.[15]

Pictish sculptured stones at Meigle Museum

Pictish remains are in abundance in this part of Scotland and one of the largest collections of Pictish sculptured stones is housed 5 miles to the East of the town at the Meigle Sculptured Stone Museum. The size of the collection, all of which were found in Meigle, suggests this was an ecclesiastical centre of some importance in the 8th to 10th centuries.[16]
Modern History[edit]

From around 1600 to the turn of the 19th century, Blairgowrie had a fairly stable population, recorded at 425 inhabitants at in the first Statistical Account in 1792. in the second Statistical Account of 1853? notes a disproportionate increase due to an influx of families attracted by the expanding textiles industry[17] Gaelic was declining but still partially spoken in the upper part of the parish at that time, with all speaking English.

Blairgowrie was made a barony in favour of George Drummond of Blair in 1634 by a royal charter of Charles I, and became a free burgh in 1809. In 1724 the military road from Coupar Angus to Fort George which passes through the town on the line of the A923 and A93 was completed.

The town expanded hugely in the 19th century thanks to the employment provided by the many textile mills which were built along the River Ericht, all now closed. By 1870 there were 12 mills along the river employing nearly 2000 men and women and the population had increased from 400 in the 1700s to 4000. Some of the disused mill buildings can be seen from the riverside walk west from the bridge and from Haugh Road to the east . Keithbank Mill has been converted to apartments.

Soft fruit growing, mainly raspberries and strawberries developed in the 20th century and became a very important part of the town's economy with Smedleys opening a cannery in Haugh Road, Adamsons a jam factory in Croft Lane and huge quantities of table berries and pulp being despatched to markets and jam factories throughout Britain. Berry pickers were brought in by bus from Perth and Dundee, and large encampments were set up on farms for pickers from further afield, mainly from the Glasgow area, who made this their annual holiday. They were joined by the travelling community who congregated here for the berry season. One of the best examples was the Tin City at Essendy, which housed workers in a complex of tin huts with its own chapel, post office, shop, kitchens, etc.

The coming of the railway revolutionised the textile and soft fruit trade, but the last train ran in the 1960s, and the extensive railway yards are now the site of the Tesco supermarket and Welton Road industrial estate.

Blairgowrie had a busy livestock market at the bottom of the Boat Brae but this closed in the 1960s and is now the site of the Ashgrove Court sheltered housing complex.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blairgowri ... ay#History

11. Problem: The claims that Pickering made could easily be found in history books or even some TV documentaries:

The most evidential parts of this case are Pickering’s knowledge of:
- Burns occupation as a medical doctor
- His involvement in civic affairs
- His role as a justice of the peace
- The prior location of a seaman’s mission building
- The position of a staircase in a medical school building that had since been torn down.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 3

12. Problem: Even the pdf writes in a manner that there can be documents that could contain these information:

Any explanation other then reincarnation would require Pickering to possess unheard of skills at clairvoyantly examining numerous old documents residing in a foreign land. And even that probably could not explain her knowledge of the mission’s prior location.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 3

13. Problem: The pdf even here is written in a manner that reincarnation is the only cause which is bogus. There can be other sources of her knowledge. She could have a friend in that area or a historian friend, she could saw it on TV but does not remember it or heard it on a radio show or was there before. There are many more possibilities:

Any explanation other then reincarnation would require Pickering to possess unheard of skills at clairvoyantly examining numerous old documents residing in a foreign land. And even that probably could not explain her knowledge of the mission’s prior location.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 3

14. Problem: There is already some criticism:

Although several people have placed synopses of this case on the Internet, I have only come across one serious attempt at criticism. Unfortunately, this one is written in a language I do not read and the Google translation often leaves the meaning of phrases unclear.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 3

15. Problem: The whole paper is written in a believer tone and this is pathetic:

Although several people have placed synopses of this case on the Internet, I have only come across one serious attempt at criticism. Unfortunately, this one is written in a language I do not read and the Google translation often leaves the meaning of phrases unclear. The language barrier works both ways, causing it seems, the critic to misunderstand parts of Ramsters film. (His critique shows no sign that he ever read the written report.) In short, the criticism amounts very little, other then a distraction from the real evidence of this strong case.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 3

Its pathetic because the author agrees that he could not translate everything because he does not know the language but then concludes that the criticism is weak. Wow so now he understands that language?

16. Problem: There is a dutch skeptic who already took a look at Ramster claims and even a believer agreed with him that not everything which Ramster said or made is correct:

Hi liberty,

I've always been fascinated by Peter Ramster's work.

Unfortunately, not too long ago, a large part of the claims in his television documentary seems to have been rather succesfully debunked by the notorious Dutch skeptic Rob Nanninga (http://www.skepsis.nl/ramster-video.html)in 2008. One of his main findings is that the French chateau supposedly recalled by Cynthia Henderson did not even exist during her claimed previous life. It was built in the 19th Century, to be more precise in 1870, for an English lord.

I can't say I'm a great fan of Nanninga's mostly closed-minded and destructive work as a debunker, but in this case I must admit he really seems to have done a thorough job.

Concerning the case of Gwen M(a)cDonald, he concludes that it is a lot less impressive than one would think. By the way, his criticism is less devastating than in the Cynthia Henderson case.

This doesn't mean all of Peter Ramster's regressions consist of nothing but nonsense, but we should be really cautious about them.

Titus Rivas


Taken from: http://www.childpastlives.org/vBulletin ... 17721.html

Next I have found a blog that tried to debunk the skeptics work on this case. Here is the link:

http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

17. Problem: Helen Pickering had recalled several past lives why did he only investigated this one? I smell here a problem and a very big problem. This could be bias because this sounded like the most reasonable one:

''Helen was a lady who under hypnosis recalled a number of lives, but the one I decided to research was a past life recalled in Scotland in the nineteenth century.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

18. Problem: The person in the blog is also a strong believer but points out several problems in which even he agrees:

Peter Ramster took Helen Pickering to Blairgowrie in Scotland and blindfolded her along the way on location making it vital that she had no clues as to where she was going or which area she was in. Along the way her statements were verified and she revealed information which she possibly couldn't have known in any other way. Without a doubt the documentary was quite amazing to watch and I couldn't really think of how anyone could put it down to a mere confabulation. Anyway I searched for any sceptical views on the case and I came across one by a man named 'Rob Nanninga' he looks at each case and has seemed to make quite an effort 'debunking' each one. Whereas with some of the subject's cases he has picked on vital flaws which could potentially cause them to fall down, for example he apparently discovered that Cynthia Henderson whom recalled the life as a French woman led them to an old castle which turned out to be a fake castle made for an English lord in the 1800's - Still this may be a mistake on his part and even if this is the case that doesn't mean that this disparages every case.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

19. Problem: The believer here makes the same claim like the believer in the pdf:

Rob Nanninga wrote the article in Dutch, which makes me wonder if he either watched the documentary dubbed in a language which he was familiar with and not English or if his English isn't very good. Nonetheless I am going to look at all the arguments he has constructed against the case and see why for the most part they don't hold any importance.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

The pdf:

Although several people have placed synopses of this case on the Internet, I have only come across one serious attempt at criticism. Unfortunately, this one is written in a language I do not read and the Google translation often leaves the meaning of phrases unclear. The language barrier works both ways, causing it seems, the critic to misunderstand parts of Ramsters film. (His critique shows no sign that he ever read the written report.) In short, the criticism amounts very little, other then a distraction from the real evidence of this strong case.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 3

Jeez the believers are like a parrot claiming the same old stuff over and over.

20. Problem: The town of Blairgowrie is also in Australia. She could easily get some information out of there and the rest she could have looked up in history books because she became fascinated with the town:

Rob Nanninga claims that 'Helen Pickering does not have to remember Blairgowrie from a previous life, because it's a well known holiday resort in the South of Melbourne. It was named after the Scottish town after World War 2.'

This could easily allude one into thinking that she acquired the name after the Australian village. After all there are only seemingly three places named Blairgowrie in the world, the Scottish one of course being the original and the one in Australia and South Africa both named after the original.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

21. Problem: Blairgowrie in Australia is named after the city of Scotland:

Blairgowrie is a seaside village approximately 87 km from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Its local government area is the Shire of Mornington Peninsula.

History[edit]

Blairgowrie was named after the Burgh of Blairgowrie, the second largest town in Perth and Kinross, Scotland. A post office was not opened until 1 November 1947.[2]

Rhys Isaac, Pulitze-prize-winning author, died in Blairgowrie on 6 October 2010.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blairgowrie,_Victoria

22. Problem: The University is very well known:

Even though Helen Pickering was living in Sydney at the time of her regression one could say that she could have lived in Melbourne as a young child and gone on the occasional holiday to Blairgowrie as Australia being a huge country only those in Melbourne really know about it. But the only problem here is that Helen isn't talking about the Blairgowrie of Australia - She is talking in the form of a man and speaking in a distinctly well spoken Scottish accent she is also connecting this by mentioning where she attended university which was in another City, Aberdeen and mentioning in detail the description of the town and it's layout and where certain buildings once stood.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

As we can see here:

The University of Aberdeen is a public research-focused university in the city of Aberdeen, Scotland. It is an ancient university founded in 1495 when William Elphinstone, Bishop of Aberdeen, petitioned Pope Alexander VI on behalf of James IV, King of Scots to create King's College.[3] This makes it Scotland's third-oldest university (after the University of St. Andrews and the University of Glasgow) and fifth-oldest in the English-speaking world. The university as it is today was formed in 1860 by a merger between King's College (which had always referred to itself as the University of Aberdeen) and Marischal College, a second university founded in 1593 in Aberdeen city centre as a Protestant alternative to King's College. Today, the University of Aberdeen is one of two universities in Aberdeen (the other is The Robert Gordon University).

The university's iconic buildings act as symbols of the City of Aberdeen, particularly Marischal College in the city centre and the spire of King's College in Old Aberdeen. There are two campuses; the main King's College campus is at Old Aberdeen approximately two miles north of the city centre, around the original site of King's College, although most campus buildings were constructed in the 20th century during a period of expansion. The university's Foresterhill campus is located next to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary and houses the School of Medicine and Dentistry and School of Medical Sciences.

The University has approximately 13,500 students from undergraduate to doctoral level, including many international students. There are also large numbers of Masters and PhD students. In addition, the university's Centre for Lifelong Learning acts as an extension college, offering higher education courses to the local community even for those without the usual qualifications for admission to degree-level study. A full range of disciplines are offered and in 2012 the university offered over 650 undergraduate degree programmes.

Five Nobel Prize winners are associated with the University.[4] Other academics and graduates of the University include many distinguished figures, including: physicist James Clerk Maxwell; Thomas Reid, the founder of the Scottish School of Common Sense and an important figure in the Scottish Enlightenment; philosopher Robert Adamson; educationalist and philosopher Alexander Bain; and theologian William Robinson Clark.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Aberdeen

23. Problem: Even the believer acknowledges that there are possible that Helen visited the town in Australia:

Chances are a young Helen could have gone to Blairgowrie in Australia as I said before, and she may have obtained the information that this was named after a Scottish town after World War 2 - But the only problem with this argument is that even if she had known this somewhere stored sub consciously in her mind the fact remains is that the descriptions she gave were precisely that of the town of Blairgowrie in Scotland and not that of the Small Seaside Town in Melbourne, Australia.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

25. Problem: Everything was filmed as it was. That is not also true to some degree. We do not know if Peter Ramster did not change the film and if he is honest with us also:

But this isn't the case. Helen Pickering's descriptions weren't remotely like that of the seaside town of Blairgowrie in Melbourne, but on the contrary were accurate descriptions of the town of Blairgowrie in Scotland - A town she had never visited and certainly had no connection with. Helen was blindfolded on the way there as it shows in the documentary and it Peter Ramster's words - ''Helen was taken to Scotland, to Blairgowrie. Everything was filmed as it happened. She was blindfolded on the way there so she could gain no clues as to where she was. She was taken to a point just outside the town where the blindfold was taken off. At first she was confused. In Australia she had spoken of a grassy square in the middle of town around which the road ran on both sides.''


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

26. Problem: This is too hard for me to swallow. She did not know where they are taking her? Is she stupid? What if they wanted to rape her or sell her for organs? She must have been informed about it from the beginning because if not she could have been taken to prostitution like it happens and I think everyone would normally ask where she is being taken to:

In the documentary it shows Helen arriving in a car in Blairgowrie, and coming out of the car blindfolded as shown above. As the narrator states that - ''When we drove into Blairgowrie, Helen had no idea where we had taken her, we hadn't discussed it, and we blindfolded her well away from the edge of the town without her seeing a sign post.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

27. Problem: The description under hypnosis is very vague and even pathetic:

In Australia under hypnosis she had spoken of a grassy square in the middle of town around which the road ran both sides.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

We can see it even here according to her own words:

In Helen's words under hypnosis she described the following:

''The street runs up to the square. There's a grassy area in the middle of the square and the road runs around both sides.''


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

There are many towns with a description like this.

28. Problem: Was this proved by someone else then by Peter Ramster and is there some documentation that it was like this?:

As is shown in the documentary this is an accurate description of the town centre. After this Peter asked Helen where he thought a pub she mentioned was, she lead the way but the pub she had mentioned had been long gone. She then lead Peter Ramster to where her old surgery was but was bemused at the change and gave the description of how it had once looked according to her memory. Then the narrator states - ''According to the old records the surgery and near by buildings had either been remodelled or pulled down many years ago. There was new shop fronts, new buildings, and an entire new road.''

This states there was a surgery where Helen said there was one, or a surgery near by which got knocked down and no surviving shops from then existed. This is understandable as James Burns had last lived 110 years ago and rarely does the layout of an area stay intact after such prolonged periods of time. Rob Nanninga doesn't mention this at all - Either he deemed it as unnecessary and thought it held no importance, or perhaps he forgot.


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

29. Problem: James Burns is not so unknown in the city:

Rob Nanninga claims that 'The TV Documentary shows an old document from the municipal archives of Blairgowrie, showing that a certain James Burns was active there in the 19th Century. It does not say that he worked as a doctor, but the voice over assures us that it's fine.'

In the documentary the narrator states that they try looking for old reminders of James Burns in the old minute books and records which are now housed below ground in a county library. It turns out that James Burns is indeed mentioned although the camera in the documentary unfortunately only focuses on the main writing for a few seconds and only a graphologist would be able to make out what is says due to the blurry quality:


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

30. Problem: The documentary has flaws and even the rebuttal of these flaws is quite weak:

Rob Nanninga claims that 'The TV Documentary shows an old document from the municipal archives of Blairgowrie, showing that a certain James Burns was active there in the 19th Century. It does not say that he worked as a doctor, but the voice over assures us that it's fine.'

In the documentary the narrator states that they try looking for old reminders of James Burns in the old minute books and records which are now housed below ground in a county library. It turns out that James Burns is indeed mentioned although the camera in the documentary unfortunately only focuses on the main writing for a few seconds and only a graphologist would be able to make out what is says due to the blurry quality:


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

31. Problem: Doctors in small towns had always a big position so its no wonder the doctor had this known position. Its even in history books and there are other people like this:

The most evidential parts of this case are Pickering’s knowledge of:
- Burns occupation as a medical doctor
- His involvement in civic affairs
- His role as a justice of the peace
- The prior location of a seaman’s mission building
- The position of a staircase in a medical school building that had since been torn down.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_76-10 ... nUnder.pdf
Page: 3

Example of other people like this:

Aris Allen was born in San Antonio, Texas, on December 27, 1910. He attended public schools in San Antonio and Washington, D.C., and graduated from Dunbar High School in Washington. He attended Howard University and Howard University Medical School earning an M.D. in 1944. Allen was president of his class at Howard University in Washington, D.C.[2] Allen married Faye E. Watson in 1947 the couple had two children. Allen served as a pilot in United States Army Specialized Training Program in 1942 and was an Air Force flight surgeon from 1953 to 1955.
Medicine[edit]

Allen started his medical career as a medical resident at Freedman's Hospital, Washington, D.C., 1944 and 1945 then went into private practice in Annapolis. He received the Maryland Medical Association award for outstanding achievements in medicine and civic affairs in 1967. He was also the Medical affairs advisor to the Health Care Financing Administration in Maryland from 1981 to 1989, a member of the Board of Medical Examiners of Maryland and Director of the Health Standards and Quality Board of the Health Care Financing Administration. He was a board member of the Maryland Academy of Family Physicians and President of the medical staff of Anne Arundel Medical Center.
Education[edit]

Allen devoted much of his time to the education of youth in Maryland. He was the first African American to be appointed to the Anne Arundel County Board of Education, was a member of the board of the Anne Arundel Community College, and vice chair for the board of regents at Morgan State University.[3]
Civic involvement[edit]

Allen served on the boards of the YMCA, the Salvation Army, the Community Chest of Anne Arundel County, the Red Cross, the Annapolis Chamber of Commerce and the Annapolis chapter of the American Cancer Society; he was a life member of the NAACP and a member of the Board of stewards for his church, Mount Moriah A. M. E.
In the legislature[edit]

Allen first served in the House of Delegates representing Anne Arundel County from 1967 to 1974 and then from 1990 to1991. During his tenure in the House he was Minority whip from 1967 to 1974 and a member of the Constitutional and Administrative Law Committee, 1967–74. In the Maryland Senate he served on the Finance Committee from 1979 to 1981.
1990 Race for Maryland House of Delegates – District 30[4]
Voters to choose three:Name Votes Percent Outcome
John Astle, Dem. 18,009 23% Won
Aris T. Allen, Rep. 16,951 22% Won
Michael E. Busch, Dem. 16,104 18% Won
Edith Segree, Dem. 14,341 18% Lost
Phillip D. Bissett, Rep. 13,321 17% Lost

Republican activist[edit]

Chair, Maryland state Republican Party. Chair of the Maryland delegates to the Republican National Convention, 1972. NAACP county conference award, 1976. Chair, Republican State Central Committee, 1977–79. Rotary International Paul Harris Fellowship, 1978. Candidate for lieutenant governor of Maryland, 1978. Convention secretary, Republican National Convention, 1980.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aris_T._Allen

Or another:

John Lamphire M.D. (1614–1688) was an English academic, who became a physician after being ejected from his college fellowship. He was later Camden Professor of Ancient History, and principal of Hart Hall, Oxford.

He was son of George Lamphire, apothecary, and was born in Winchester. He was admitted scholar of Winchester College in 1627. He matriculated from New College, Oxford in 1634, aged 20; was elected fellow there in 1636; proceeded B. A. in 1638, and M.A. in 1641-2. He is apparently the John Lanfire who was appointed prebendary of Bath and Wells in 1641.

In 1648 he was ejected from his fellowship by the parliamentary visitors, but during the Commonwealth practised physic with some success at Oxford. Anthony à Wood in his 'Autobiography' says he belonged to a set of royalists "who esteemed themselves virtuosi or wits". He was Wood's physician, and tried to cure his deafness.

Lamphire was restored to his fellowship in 1660, and on 16 August was elected Camden professor of history. On 30 October 1660 he was created M.D. On 8 Sept. 1662 he succeeded Christopher Rogers (deprived) as principal of New Inn Hall, and on 30 May 1668 was translated to the headship of Hart Hall. He was also a justice of the peace for the city and county of Oxford, and seems to have taken some part in civic affairs, particularly in the paving of St. Clement's and the draining of the town moat. He died on 30 March 1688. aged 76, and was buried on 2 April in the chapel of Hart Hall (now Hertford College), near the west door. Walker calls him "a good, generous, and fatherly man, of a public spirit, and free from the modish hypocrisy of the age he lived in".


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lamphire

Its normal even in Slovakia we had Jan Adam Rayman:

Z Holandska se Rayman vrátil zpátky do svého rodiště, přičemž odmítl nabídky na lékařskou praxi z Polska. V roku 1713 byl jmenován městským lékařem, což bylo pro 23 let starého mladíka vyjádřením velké důvěry. Jedním z hlavních důvodů proč se rozhodl vrátit do Prešova byla smrt jeho otčíma Jana Samuela Willicha, který se okamžitě po příchodu zařadil mezi významné občany Prešova. V roce 1709 byl přijat do stočlenné městské rady.


Taken from: http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ján_Adam_Rayman

Translation by google translate:

From Holland Rayman went back to his birthplace, and rejected the offer to practice medicine in Poland. In 1713 he was appointed as the town doctor, which was for 23-year-old young man expressing great confidence. One of the main reasons why he decided to return to Prešov was the death of his stepfather John Samuel Willicha that immediately after the arrival ranked among the prominent citizens of Prešov. In 1709 he was admitted to the hundred-member city council.

32. Problem: Helen Pickering left according to this blog to America and it brings little doubt that she never left Australia:

If anyone is unfamiliar with the case of Peter Ramster's (Peter Ramster is a Psychologist and Hypnotherapist from Australia) - reincarnation experiment where he regressed four regular Australian housewives all of whom apparently had never left Australia (Although I had read somewhere that Helen Pickering had visited America once before) then I highly recommend watching the documentary online which has eleven parts uploaded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HayY1yyXnn0


Taken from: http://parkersage.blogspot.sk/2013/07/t ... ation.html

Conclusion of part 7: So I have found 32 problems some of them be repeating itself but after reading the pdf and other information about this case it leaves me very doubtful of the whole business. The problem is that this case happened 1981 and she is a housewife we do not know what she could have learned and what she read. Also the information was received thanks to hypnosis and we do not know what Peter Ramster told her or inserted into her mind during the hypnotic sessions like creating false memories. There is also already a skeptic analysis of this case and the believers were not able to rebut this by claiming that the author wrote it in Dutch. For the sake of the argument he wrote it in Dutch because it was for a Dutch magazine and he is more skilled in Dutch and can only understand English on a hearing level but not write in it. However if it was how it was even the Dutch skeptic showed several flaws in the story itself which makes the whole story more doubtful even for me without reading the Dutch skeptic work it leaves me with doubt and therefore I am having the same feelings like with every other case of claimed reincarnation. I would believe in reincarnation if there is solid evidence but this is not solid evidence. So for me this case is NOT proof of reincarnation or it is NOT even a hint of reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences in the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:08 pm

Part 8: The Apprentice Murderer

Here is the new case:

1982 The Apprentice Murderer [ID#22] 269 Goldberg


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf can be found here:

http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf

1. Problem: He is again using hypnosis:

Dr. Bruce Goldberg has regressed literally thousand of patients in his 30-year career in hypnotherapy.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

This is bad like written above. Even some reincarnation researchers like Ian Stevenson does not agree with this and even skeptics pointed out the flaws of this procedure like I wrote above.

2. Problem: Dr. Bruce Goldberg is a known believer:

Dr. Bruce Goldberg has regressed literally thousand of patients in his 30-year career in hypnotherapy.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

Here we see he is a believer:

Bruce Goldberg
Top
Home > Library > Religion & Spirituality > Occultism & Parapsychology Encyclopedia
(1948-)

Bruce Edward Goldberg, a dentist who developed a practice in hypnotherapy, was born on November 18, 1948, in New York City. He attended Southern Connecticut State College, where he graduated magna cum laude in 1970 with a B.A. in chemistry and biology. He completed his dentistry degree in 1974 at the University of Maryland. Before opening a practice he did a year of work in hypnotherapy with the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis. In 1976 he opened both a dentistry and hypnotherapy practice in Baltimore which he continued through the 1980s. As he concentrated more and more on his hypnosis work, he attended Loyola College and earned his master's degree in counseling and psychology. After moving to Los Angeles, California, in 1989, he abandoned his dentistry career and has since been a full-time hypnotherapist.

His work with hypnotherapy had two aspects, the assisting of his patients with their personal problems, and the exploration of some of the phenomena of hypnosis that emerge in the reports of previous incarnations. Such reports have been quite common in the past generation. However, from his training in psychology, he made a systematic study of the material he evoked from his clients. Along with regressing patients into the past, he also progressed them into the future. Though the subject of progressive hypnosis had been broached in previous publications, his 1982 book, Past Lives, Future Lives, was the first book-length study of the phenomena. The book was a popular success, was translated into a number of languages, and established Goldberg as one of the leading psychologists studying reincarnation.

In 1990 Goldberg became the president of the Los Angeles Academy of Clinical Hypnosis. He is also a life member of the Association for Past Life Research and Therapy. Through the 1990s, he has authored a string of books exploring a variety of issues in hypnosis therapy and reincarnation, including a set of small books issued by Llewellyn Publications in 1998 and 1999.


Taken from: http://www.answers.com/topic/bruce-goldberg

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/bruce-gold ... z2skfpeze5

3. Problem: Dr. Bruce Goldberg is making a living out of this:

Bruce Edward Goldberg, a dentist who developed a practice in hypnotherapy, was born on November 18, 1948, in New York City. He attended Southern Connecticut State College, where he graduated magna cum laude in 1970 with a B.A. in chemistry and biology. He completed his dentistry degree in 1974 at the University of Maryland. Before opening a practice he did a year of work in hypnotherapy with the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis. In 1976 he opened both a dentistry and hypnotherapy practice in Baltimore which he continued through the 1980s. As he concentrated more and more on his hypnosis work, he attended Loyola College and earned his master's degree in counseling and psychology. After moving to Los Angeles, California, in 1989, he abandoned his dentistry career and has since been a full-time hypnotherapist.


Taken from: http://www.answers.com/topic/bruce-goldberg

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/bruce-gold ... z2skfpeze5

4. Dr. Bruce Goldberg is a known New Age believer/ New Age metaphysical activist and he even writes it on his own web-page:

Welcome to the Site of Dr. Bruce Goldberg - the Hypnotherapist

Welcome to what I believe will be a very memorable trip of your life to my website. I'm a dentist and a hypnotherapist. I specialize in past life regression (and Future Life progression) hypnotherapy, and have retired from dentistry to devote full-time to my rapidly expanding international hypnotherapy practice. With the magic of hypnotherapy, almost anything is possible!

I have been on many radio and television talk shows, I am a media consultant, a New Age metaphysical activist and spokesperson. I have written many interesting books, and have produced dozens of self-hypnosis tapes about this exciting field of hypnotherapy. Feel free to surf my site. Your imagination is the only limit of your experience as you explore the magic of hypnotherapy.


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/

5. Problem: The skeptics know about him:

Dr Goldberg helps us with "past-life regression"

http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/index.html

Welcome to the Site of Dr. Bruce Goldberg -- the Hypnotherapist

Welcome to what I believe will be a very memorable trip of your life to my website. I'm a dentist and a hypnotherapist. I specialized in past life regression (and Future Life progression) hypnotherapy, and have retired from dentistry to devote full-time to my rapidly expanding international hypnotherapy practice. With the magic of hypnotherapy, almost anything is possible!

I have been on many radio and television talk shows, I am a media consultant, a New Age metaphysical activist and spokesperson. I have written many interesting books, and have produced dozens of self-hypnosis tapes about this exciting field of hypnotherapy. Feel free to surf my site. Your imagination is the only limit of your experience as you explore the magic of a hypnotherapist.

Come and experience the magic of a healing hypnotherapist, give Dr. Bruce Goldberg a call today - - - 818-713-8190.


Taken from: http://www.ntskeptics.org/news/news2002-12-13.htm

6. Problem: Dr. Bruce Goldberg is a total woo master. He claims he can time travel just to promote his book:

"Am I A Time Traveler?" Those of you who listened to my interview with Art on Coast to Coast AM on May 19/20 heard me discuss rumors being spread throughout the internet concerning whether or not I am a time traveler (chrononaut from the future). I stated several times on the air that I will neither confirm nor deny that rumor. Here are additional clues a to whether or not my origin is from the future.

If I am a time traveler, I most definitely would be from the 35th century when teleportation is developed as a means of time travel. Teleportation as a local means of transportation is established by the 25th century, as I discussed in my book Past Lives- Future Lives.

The 35th century is truly a golden age. More advance will be made technologically and spiritually in that century than in any other in history! The average age is between 500 and 900 years old due to an energy charging device called the alphasyncolarium that stimulates our adrenal glands and gonads to increase its production of the hormone DHEA. DHEA is a sex hormone that functions as a major component of our immune system and is described in detail in my book Look Younger, Live Longer.

During the Coast to Coast AM interview I briefly described Art's past life in Atlantis at about 50,000 B.C. in which he was a geophysicist/quantum physicist named Drako. Drako developed mathematical models for time travel that were, in fact, accurate. He was married to Meirah (Ramona in her past life) and accurately predicted the first of three cataclysms for Atlantis.

The media (Atlantis had both radio and television) would not allow Drako (Art) to warn the population of this catastrophe. A medical TV reporter named Forat did grant Drako air time and many thousands of people were saved, including Meirah and Forat. Drako was killed, however. Forat was one of my former lives, so the devastating earthquake and flood did not end my past life, nor that of many others.

Drako and Meirah belonged to a religion that worshiped cats. The other main theology consisted of bull worshipers. You can now see many ties to Art's current life. This information was obtained by me using one of my Access the Akashic Records tapes. The script is presented in my book Astral Voyages, or it could be known to me by reviewing 35th century archives.


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/TravelerGoldberg.htm

Here is he selling his book where he claims is the answer. What a weak trick:

The answer to the question am I a time traveler? I can only say that a true chrononaut takes an oath never to reveal that fact, unless it is an emergency to do so. To do so would be a breach of what is known as timeline international security laws that exist in the future. Chrononauts always seek to stimulate the intellectual, emotional and spiritual growth. The answer to the question am I a time traveler can best be determined by you. There are many clues in my books - Time Travelers From Our Future and Astral Voyages and additional hints will be developed during future interviews with Art. Stayed tuned and may the space-time continuum be with us.


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/TravelerGoldberg.htm

7. Problem: He believes in Atlantis wow and what a pathetic excuse that they could not inform about the catastrophe:

During the Coast to Coast AM interview I briefly described Art's past life in Atlantis at about 50,000 B.C. in which he was a geophysicist/quantum physicist named Drako. Drako developed mathematical models for time travel that were, in fact, accurate. He was married to Meirah (Ramona in her past life) and accurately predicted the first of three cataclysms for Atlantis.

The media (Atlantis had both radio and television) would not allow Drako (Art) to warn the population of this catastrophe. A medical TV reporter named Forat did grant Drako air time and many thousands of people were saved, including Meirah and Forat. Drako was killed, however. Forat was one of my former lives, so the devastating earthquake and flood did not end my past life, nor that of many others.


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/TravelerGoldberg.htm

8. Problem: Dr. Bruce Goldberg received some harsh criticism from a believing Christian what I found here:

Dr. Bruce Goldberg holds advanced degrees in dentistry and Counseling Psychology and conducts a thriving international hypnotherapy practice in Los Angeles that specializes in reincarnation, time travel and consiousness raising.

What is “consciousness[-] raising”? Making someone “more aware”? And he specializes in making people more aware of what? Himself? That’s like me boasting that I specializing in “talk making” – who cares and why is that significant? Yes, and his books:

Dr. Goldberg Breaks his Silence on a Pending Question!

Is Dr. Bruce Goldberg a Time Traveler?

“Am I A Time Traveler?” Those of you who listened to my interview with Art on Coast to Coast AM on May 19/20 heard me discuss rumors being spread throughout the internet concerning whether or not I am a time traveler (chrononaut from the future). I stated several times on the air that I will neither confirm nor deny that rumor. Here are additional clues a to whether or not my origin is from the future.

If I am a time traveler, I most definitely would be from the 35th century when teleportation is developed as a means of time travel. Teleportation as a local means of transportation is established by the 25th century, as I discussed in my book Past Lives- Future Lives.

The 35th century is truly a golden age. More advance[s] will be made technologically and spiritually in that century than in any other in history! The average age is between 500 and 900 years old due to an energy charging device called the alphasyncolarium that stimulates our adrenal glands and gonads to increase its production of the hormone DHEA. DHEA is a sex hormone that functions as a major component of our immune system and is described in detail in my book Look Younger, Live Longer.

During the Coast to Coast AM interview I briefly described Art’s past life in Atlantis at about 50,000 B.C. in which he was a geophysicist/quantum physicist named Drako. Drako developed mathematical models for time travel that were, in fact, accurate. He was married to Meirah (Ramona in her past life) and accurately predicted the first of three cataclysms for Atlantis. …

Drako and Meirah belonged to a religion that worshiped cats… You can now see many ties to Art’s current life. This information was obtained by me using one of my Access the Akashic Records tapes. The script is presented in my book Astral Voyages, or it could be known to me by reviewing 35th century archives.

The answer to the question am I a time traveler? I can only say that a true chrononaut takes an oath never to reveal that fact, unless it is an emergency to do so. To do so would be a breach of what is known as timeline international security laws that exist in the future. Chrononauts always seek to stimulate the intellectual, emotional and spiritual growth. The answer to the question am I a time traveler can best be determined by you. There are many clues in my books – Time Travelers From Our Future and Astral Voyages and additional hints will be developed during future interviews with Art. Stayed tuned and may the space-time continuum be with us.

So, George, a supposed Catholic (as Wikipedia and other sources claim) recommends that this Wicca-leaning person, who is too prideful to admit that she gets possessed by demons, get help from either a mentally ill person or huxter – why?

The rest of the Coast to Coast AM biography on “Dr.” Goldberg ays,

In 1987 he was inducted into the International Hypnosis Hall of Fame. Dr. Goldberg has written 18 books and over two dozen scientific articles on his work. He has appeared on several national television programs and has conducted over 35,000 past life regressions and future life progressions on over 14,000 patients since 1974. His first book, Past Lives, Future Lives, was the very first book ever written on taking patients into future lives. His second book, The Search For Grace, was made into a CBS movie. His newer books which include, Past Lives, Future Lives Revealed, Ascension and Spirit Guide Contact Through Hypnosis, teach how to time travel, meet time travelers, leave our body and grow spiritually.


Taken from: http://eternian.wordpress.com/tag/dr-br ... conartist/

8. Problem: He is a very hard believer:

Reincarnation Documented Live on Network Radio

by Dr. Bruce Goldberg

On Friday, March 24, 2000 I had the pleasure of being interviewed by Peter Weissbach, who was subhosting for Art Bell's "Coast To Coast AM" Network Radio Show.

Prior to the show I discussed my Akashic Record scan technique and how it revealed Art's past life in Atlantis approximately 50,000 B.C as a geophysicist/quantum physicist named Drako (See a separate particular on this website). This was also reported in the July 1999 issue of Art's Newsletter After Dark on page 11. I am a contributing writer to After Dark and regularly submit articles.

Peter requested I repeat this technique and uncover one of his past lives. I agreed and used my Access the Akashic Records self-hypnosis tape at approximately 7:00 p.m. on March 24. It was very difficult to ascertain the data, but here is a summary of what I reported:
Peter was a member of the British House of Commons named Frederick Rash (Rashe or Rasch). These three spellings of his last names flashed before my eyes.
The years 1904, 1905 and 1906 also appeared.
Peter, as Frederick, was around 50 years old and very ill with a flu. He couldn't go to the House of Commons and was very angry at missing these sessions. He obsessed with being there, but was unable to leave his residence.
Strangely enough when he finally did return to work, two of his colleagues commented on seeing him on the day he was ill and noticing him seated in the wrong chair. When they separately inquired as to his health (he appeared rather pale), Rasch didn't acknowledge their presence.

My assumption was that Rasch sent his astral body to the House of Commons due to his obsessive thoughts about missing these sessions. I discuss this phenomenon of bilocation in my book Astral Voyages (Llewellyn).


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/Reincarnation.htm

9. Problem: He has even workshops with full of woo:

See Workshop Descriptions Below
Dr. Bruce Goldberg's Magazine

Visit the Hypnotherapist

One of the most exciting and spiritually uplifting techniques is an out-of-body experience. This form of astral voyaging is always preceded by a white light protection on my tapes so no paralysis or amnesia effects, so common with other techniques, will be experienced. This is better than an E ride at Disneyland. My books, Astral Travel Voyages and Peaceful Transition detail these techniques. Also my Conscious Dying training program and Astral Voyaging cassette album contains six tapes each on guiding you safely out-of-the body and back. You may travel to the astral, causal, mental, etheric or soul plane during this OBE. The Astral Travel workbook tells you how to recognize which dimension you are on. For instance, if you see blue highways you know you are on the mental plane. The soil on the mental plane is blue, and this soil is used in the construction of their roads, hence the blue highways.

The Time Traveler Training Program is a six cassette or CD album that contains tapes to guide you to the fifth dimension and communicate with time travelers, extraterrestrials or spiritual guides.
Workshop Description
Slowing Down The Aging Process with Best-Selling author Dr. Bruce Goldberg
Custom Design Your Own Destiny
Psychic Self Defense
Out of Body Experiences: Learning How to Travel Inter-dimensionally
Soul Healing - Heal Yourself by Raising Your Consciousness
Time Travelers UFO Abductors From Our Future


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/newl.htm

10. Problem: He has his own woo magazine:

The Hypnotherapist Magazine

the Official Journal of

Dr. Bruce Goldberg

Takes you into another dimension


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/Hypnotherapist.htm

11.Problem: He has his own woo tapes and books:

Directory of Dr. Goldberg's Hypnotic Tapes and Books
Welcome to Dr. Bruce Goldberg's Tape and Book Directory
CDs Now Available New: Alpha Sync Tapes

Tapes 1: A comprehensive directory of all Tapes and Books produced by Dr. Bruce Goldberg

Tapes 2: Time Travelers and Spiritual Growth Tape Series by Dr. Bruce Goldberg

Tapes 3: Ideal Relationship, Customed Destiny, Personal Empowerment and Sexual Fulfillment by Dr. Goldberg

Tapes 4: Astral Voyaging, Music Cassettes, Ascension Training and Dream Therapy Tapes by Dr. Bruce Goldberg

Tapes 5: Karmic Capitalism, Conscious Dying, and Hypnotic Times Travel Tapes by Dr. Goldberg

ALL ALBUMS ARE $75 FOR CDs AND $65 FOR CASSETTES.


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/TapeDirectory.htm

12. Problem: Dr. Goldbergs uniqueness. Oh boy this is a real woo one.

Dr. Goldberg’s Uniqueness

Dr. Goldberg developed the field of progression hypnotherapy, along with the superconscious mind tap-a healing technique through hypnosis.

He is the world’s foremost authority on futuristic time travelers. His books, Time Travelers From Our Future and Egypt: An Extraterrestrial And Time Traveler Experiment, are the only books written on true accounts of these futuristic time travelers.

His book, The Search For Grace, is based on the actual case history of a woman who solves her murder from a previous life in order to avoid the same fate in her current life. This case has been fully documented and stands out today as one of the most documented cases of reincarnation.

In Dr. Goldberg’s own words: "For several years I was a practicing dentist using hypnosis on my dental patients, while maintaining a separate and full-time practice using hypnosis to regress patients into their past and future lives. As my reputation spread, I gave up my dental practice and became the country’s only full-time hypnotherapist specializing in past life regression and future life progression(a field I developed)."


Taken from: http://www.drbrucegoldberg.com/hist.htm


14. Problem: Now to the story in the pdf. The problem here is that again we have a story from the middle ages to be precise in 1132 and the person who was regressed is from this era. All the information the person could have learned through normal means like books, TV or radio:

The first case concerns a patient, a retain clerk; who complained of always being dominated and manipulated by co-workers, customers, and even relatives. Several age-regressions were tried, revealing a childhood of being pushed around by most everyone, but no clear initiating incident. Then past-life regression were attempted and, after four rather unproductive sessions, the man began to speak as a fellow named Thayer, living in Bavaria in the year 1132.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

15. Problem: No name of the patient is given. No facts are given either if this was checked by some history books or not. All we have is the name Thayer, Bavaria and 1132 with a weak story:

The first case concerns a patient, a retain clerk; who complained of always being dominated and manipulated by co-workers, customers, and even relatives. Several age-regressions were tried, revealing a childhood of being pushed around by most everyone, but no clear initiating incident. Then past-life regression were attempted and, after four rather unproductive sessions, the man began to speak as a fellow named Thayer, living in Bavaria in the year 1132.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

16. Problem: The name Thayer sounds more French in a German land:

The first case concerns a patient, a retain clerk; who complained of always being dominated and manipulated by co-workers, customers, and even relatives. Several age-regressions were tried, revealing a childhood of being pushed around by most everyone, but no clear initiating incident. Then past-life regression were attempted and, after four rather unproductive sessions, the man began to speak as a fellow named Thayer, living in Bavaria in the year 1132.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

Here we can see it:

Thayer Name Meaning

Variant of French Taillier, derived from Old French taillere, an oblique case of tailleur ‘tailor’ (see Taylor).

Source: Dictionary of American Family Names ©2013, Oxford University Press


Taken from: http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=thayer

17. Problem: Thayer is a known name:

Surname[edit]
Abbott Handerson Thayer (1849–1921), American artist
Adin Thayer (1816–1890), New York politician
Alexander Wheelock Thayer (1817–1897), author of The life of Ludwig van Beethoven, a standard biography, and other music biographies
Albert R. Thayer (1878–1965), painter and etcher
Amos Madden Thayer (1841–1905), United States federal judge
Andrew J. Thayer (1818–1873), attorney and legislator
Betty Thayer (born 1958), businesswoman
Bronson Thayer, executive
Brynn Thayer (born 1949), American actress
Charles W. Thayer (1910–1969), US military officer, diplomat and author (fiction and non fiction)
Dale Thayer (born 1980), baseball pitcher
David Thayer (born 1949), birth name of Teddy Harvia, cartoonist
Deborah Jinza Thayer, choreographer
Donnette Thayer, vocalist and guitarist
Douglas Thayer (born 1929), American writer


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thayer

Given name[edit]
Thayer David (1927-1978), film and TV actor


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thayer

Places[edit]
United States
Thayer, Illinois
Thayer, Indiana
Thayer, Iowa
Thayer, Kansas
Thayer, Missouri
Thayer, Nebraska
Thayer, West Virginia
Thayer County, Nebraska
Thayer Street, Providence, Rhode Island
Thayer Township, Thurston County, Nebraska
Mount Thayer, a mountain in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California

Education[edit]
Thayer Academy in Braintree, Massachusetts
Thayer Hall, a Harvard University dormitory
Thayer School of Engineering, Dartmouth College
Thayer Learning Center, Kidder, Missouri

Other[edit]
Thayer's Gull
Thayer Valve, a valve for trombones


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thayer

Also here:

3,252,595 Historical Documents and Family Trees with Thayer on Ancestry.com

1,492,515 Birth, Marriage, and Deaths

173,783 Military Records

121,646 Immigration Records


Taken from: http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=thayer

18. Problem: After four sessions he was able to crack this person? What? This smells to me like manipulation:

The first case concerns a patient, a retain clerk; who complained of always being dominated and manipulated by co-workers, customers, and even relatives. Several age-regressions were tried, revealing a childhood of being pushed around by most everyone, but no clear initiating incident. Then past-life regression were attempted and, after four rather unproductive sessions, the man began to speak as a fellow named Thayer, living in Bavaria in the year 1132.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

19. Problem: This whole story smells to me like a typical Hollywood movie style:

The first case concerns a patient, a retain clerk; who complained of always being dominated and manipulated by co-workers, customers, and even relatives. Several age-regressions were tried, revealing a childhood of being pushed around by most everyone, but no clear initiating incident. Then past-life regression were attempted and, after four rather unproductive sessions, the man began to speak as a fellow named Thayer, living in Bavaria in the year 1132. In the opening scene of this regression, Thayer was eating supper under the table. He explained this bizarre situation by saying that he was apprenticed to a goldsmith named Gustave who often beat him, sodomized him, and kept him chained to the table whenever the shop was closed. And, when the shop was open for business, Gustave would humiliate Thayer in front of the customers, especially when Clotilde, a nice girl from a wealthy family, came in to purchase something. Move forward to a significant moment in his life, Thayer told a dreadful tale of getting into a fight with his master, being stabbed in the stomach with a metal-working tool, and looking down on his own dead body. Mainly as a result of reliving these ancient events, Dr. Goldberg’s patient rapidly gained self-esteem and confidence and went on to pull his life together. (It is an accepted principle of hypnotherapy that getting such past-life incidents into the awareness of the current mind results in eliminating or greatly reducing the debilitating effects. Why this should be true is unclear.)


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

20. Problem: Okay from the whole story I get the impression that the doctor just told him that he was pushed around even in his past life and therefore now he is healed. Wow the person was pushed in his present and even past life. Wow this is so stupid. The doctor just told him the same stuff over but in a middle age setting. The doctor has not even a imagination:

The first case concerns a patient, a retain clerk; who complained of always being dominated and manipulated by co-workers, customers, and even relatives. Several age-regressions were tried, revealing a childhood of being pushed around by most everyone, but no clear initiating incident. Then past-life regression were attempted and, after four rather unproductive sessions, the man began to speak as a fellow named Thayer, living in Bavaria in the year 1132. In the opening scene of this regression, Thayer was eating supper under the table. He explained this bizarre situation by saying that he was apprenticed to a goldsmith named Gustave who often beat him, sodomized him, and kept him chained to the table whenever the shop was closed. And, when the shop was open for business, Gustave would humiliate Thayer in front of the customers, especially when Clotilde, a nice girl from a wealthy family, came in to purchase something. Move forward to a significant moment in his life, Thayer told a dreadful tale of getting into a fight with his master, being stabbed in the stomach with a metal-working tool, and looking down on his own dead body. Mainly as a result of reliving these ancient events, Dr. Goldberg’s patient rapidly gained self-esteem and confidence and went on to pull his life together. (It is an accepted principle of hypnotherapy that getting such past-life incidents into the awareness of the current mind results in eliminating or greatly reducing the debilitating effects. Why this should be true is unclear.)


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

21. Problem: This is also interesting and I think they do not have a model or theory how this works or even a explanation:

(It is an accepted principle of hypnotherapy that getting such past-life incidents into the awareness of the current mind results in eliminating or greatly reducing the debilitating effects. Why this should be true is unclear.)


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

22. Problem: The clerk was pushed around all his life no wonder he was behaving that way. No need to summon past lives here. We already know that the brain changes according to the environment of the person he is living in. Psychopaths are raising psychopaths that is a normal and scientifically found out thing thanks to neuroplasticity:

The first case concerns a patient, a retain clerk; who complained of always being dominated and manipulated by co-workers, customers, and even relatives. Several age-regressions were tried, revealing a childhood of being pushed around by most everyone, but no clear initiating incident.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

Examples of that I wrote above:

Nurturing may protect kids from brain changes linked to poverty
Date:
October 28, 2013
Source:
Washington University in St. Louis
Summary:
Researchers have identified changes in the brains of children growing up in poverty. Those changes can lead to lifelong problems like depression, learning difficulties and limitations in the ability to cope with stress. But the study showed that the extent of those changes was influenced strongly by whether parents were attentive and nurturing.


Taken from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 162042.htm

Another here:

Growing up poor, stressed impacts brain function as adult
Date:
October 21, 2013
Source:
University of Illinois at Chicago
Summary:
Poverty, coupled with stress, has long-lasting effects on brain function, according to a new study. Researchers found that test subjects who had lower family incomes at age 9 exhibited, as adults, greater activity in the amygdala, an area in the brain known for its role in fear and other negative emotions. These individuals showed less activity in areas of the prefrontal cortex, an area in the brain thought to regulate negative emotion.


Taken from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 211450.htm

Or here:

Some stress is normal, but chronic strain may be linked to brain changes, scientists find.


Taken from: http://www.livescience.com/20820-stress ... -kids.html

Another explanation could be genes. He inherited some personality traits like this. No need to summon ghosts or reincarnation.

23. Problem: Here we have another story and in this the other patient is Gustave. Wow the doctor just pushed the other character into the other patient. I think when a woman would come to him she would be Clotilde next time:

About 18 months later, Goldberg was working with another patient, an attorney, whose major complaint was that he felt overwhelmed by urges to manipulate and dominate people. It seems his guilty conscious was causing insomnia and eating disorders. As with the above case, normal hypnotic suggestion and age regressions met with only limited success. As you have probably already surmised, past-life regression revealed that this man had been a master goldsmith named Gustave in early 12th-century Bavaria. He complained about his incompetent apprentice and, when asked for the fellow’s name, said it was Thayer. “At this point,” Goldberg reports, “my skin began to crawl. However, my obligation was to my current patient, and it was important to continue this regression as if nothing unusual had happened.” Without any coaching from Goldberg, Gustave proceeded to say that he enjoyed beating his apprentice, that a certain girl named Clotilde was a distraction to the boy, and many other facts that exactly complemented the story that “Thayer” had told while reclining on the same couch over a year earlier. The culmination, too, was identical in all pertinent particulars: Gustave told of his apprentice resisting attempts to chain him to the table, getting into a fight, and then killing the boy by stabbing him in the stomach.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

24. Problem: The person was suffering from insomnia. I had insomnia and I was hungry as hell after I did not eat. Its normal because thanks to insomnia you do not sleep and you do not have energy to recharge so you eat a lot to fuel yourself up because you feel tired:

About 18 months later, Goldberg was working with another patient, an attorney, whose major complaint was that he felt overwhelmed by urges to manipulate and dominate people. It seems his guilty conscious was causing insomnia and eating disorders.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

25. Problem: Again we do not have the name of the attorney and nothing:

About 18 months later, Goldberg was working with another patient, an attorney, whose major complaint was that he felt overwhelmed by urges to manipulate and dominate people. It seems his guilty conscious was causing insomnia and eating disorders. As with the above case, normal hypnotic suggestion and age regressions met with only limited success. As you have probably already surmised, past-life regression revealed that this man had been a master goldsmith named Gustave in early 12th-century Bavaria. He complained about his incompetent apprentice and, when asked for the fellow’s name, said it was Thayer. “At this point,” Goldberg reports, “my skin began to crawl. However, my obligation was to my current patient, and it was important to continue this regression as if nothing unusual had happened.” Without any coaching from Goldberg, Gustave proceeded to say that he enjoyed beating his apprentice, that a certain girl named Clotilde was a distraction to the boy, and many other facts that exactly complemented the story that “Thayer” had told while reclining on the same couch over a year earlier. The culmination, too, was identical in all pertinent particulars: Gustave told of his apprentice resisting attempts to chain him to the table, getting into a fight, and then killing the boy by stabbing him in the stomach.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1


27. The problem here is that all these stories are old and we have only the word of Dr. Goldberg and no other information to check this:

About 18 months later, Goldberg was working with another patient, an attorney, whose major complaint was that he felt overwhelmed by urges to manipulate and dominate people. It seems his guilty conscious was causing insomnia and eating disorders. As with the above case, normal hypnotic suggestion and age regressions met with only limited success. As you have probably already surmised, past-life regression revealed that this man had been a master goldsmith named Gustave in early 12th-century Bavaria. He complained about his incompetent apprentice and, when asked for the fellow’s name, said it was Thayer. “At this point,” Goldberg reports, “my skin began to crawl. However, my obligation was to my current patient, and it was important to continue this regression as if nothing unusual had happened.” Without any coaching from Goldberg, Gustave proceeded to say that he enjoyed beating his apprentice, that a certain girl named Clotilde was a distraction to the boy, and many other facts that exactly complemented the story that “Thayer” had told while reclining on the same couch over a year earlier. The culmination, too, was identical in all pertinent particulars: Gustave told of his apprentice resisting attempts to chain him to the table, getting into a fight, and then killing the boy by stabbing him in the stomach.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... rderer.pdf
Page: 1

28. Problem: All of these cases happened in 1982 so these people or even the doctor could have learned this from normal books and it takes no genius to create these kind of stories:

1982 The Apprentice Murderer [ID#22] 269 Goldberg


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

29. Problem: Gustave is again French:

The name has entered other languages as well. In French it is Gustave


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_(name)

30. Problem: Bavaria is German and not French but there were Franks living there so its open to debate if this is right or wrong:

Bayre, Austro-Bavarian: Freistoot Boarn, Main-Franconian: Freischdood Bayan) is a state of Germany, located in the southeast. With an area of 70,548 square kilometres (27,200 sq mi), it is the largest state by area, forming almost 20% of the total land area of Germany. Bavaria is Germany's second most populous state (after North Rhine-Westphalia), with 12.5 million inhabitants. Bavaria's capital and largest city is Munich, the third largest city in Germany.

The oldest uninterruptedly existing state of Europe, it was established as a duchy in the mid first millennium. In the 17th century, the Duke of Bavaria became a Prince-elector of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. The Kingdom of Bavaria existed from 1806 to 1918, and Bavaria has since been a free state (republic). Modern Bavaria also includes parts of the historical regions of Franconia, Upper Palatinate and Swabia.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria

31. Problem: Bavaria is very well known:

The oldest uninterruptedly existing state of Europe, it was established as a duchy in the mid first millennium. In the 17th century, the Duke of Bavaria became a Prince-elector of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation. The Kingdom of Bavaria existed from 1806 to 1918, and Bavaria has since been a free state (republic). Modern Bavaria also includes parts of the historical regions of Franconia, Upper Palatinate and Swabia.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria

Conclusion of part 8: The problem here is that the stories give little information and that everything a person could have read somewhere on TV or radio about Bavaria. There are little details present to make some case out of it. Also I do not trust Goldberg he is making a living out of this woo stuff and this whole story smells strange. Its true that Franks were living in Bavaria and could have had these names but this can be found very easy in every history book about Bavaria or documentary. Another problem is that Bavaria and even the names are very well known and it does not take a genius to create such a story. It sounds like a typical Hollywood movie script or story which almost everyone could make up. Another problem is that his first patient suffered that he was bullied so Goldberg only created for him a similar scenario but in the past and for the attorney he used the same tactic but made out of him the evil Gustave. I think this is what happened. Goldberg was just feeding them strange stories to feel them good. So for me this case is NOT proof of reincarnation or it is NOT even a hint of reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences in the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:31 pm

Part 9: The Strangers Were Lovers

Here is the new case:

1990 ∗ The Strangers Were Lovers [ID#60] 281 U.M.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf

Here is also the info: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

Now lets look on the problems of this story and why do I not believe in it:

1. Problem: Its again only hypnosis and this shows a lot of errors. I wrote about this above:

As far as I can tell, this case is unique in reincarnation literature. Most cases involve one hypnotherapist and one subject who recalls one or more past lives. Sometimes the is solid evidence to precisely confirm the recalled events; often the evidence is merely supportive or suggestive. The evidential basis for a very few cases comes from the agreement of two or more subjects recalling participation in the same past-life event while being separately regressed by the same hypnotherapist. The case discussed here goes a step beyond the others in that it involves two different subjects recalling the same lives while being regressed by two different therapists in sessions that were both many miles and several years apart.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: Evidence is based on a agreement? Wow:

As far as I can tell, this case is unique in reincarnation literature. Most cases involve one hypnotherapist and one subject who recalls one or more past lives. Sometimes the is solid evidence to precisely confirm the recalled events; often the evidence is merely supportive or suggestive. The evidential basis for a very few cases comes from the agreement of two or more subjects recalling participation in the same past-life event while being separately regressed by the same hypnotherapist.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

3. Problem: This is nothing odd because both of them could believe that they were on Titanic or in a Gulag and read about it:

As far as I can tell, this case is unique in reincarnation literature. Most cases involve one hypnotherapist and one subject who recalls one or more past lives. Sometimes the is solid evidence to precisely confirm the recalled events; often the evidence is merely supportive or suggestive. The evidential basis for a very few cases comes from the agreement of two or more subjects recalling participation in the same past-life event while being separately regressed by the same hypnotherapist. The case discussed here goes a step beyond the others in that it involves two different subjects recalling the same lives while being regressed by two different therapists in sessions that were both many miles and several years apart.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

4. Problem: It would be more interesting to see if there are people who claim they were some famous person. I mean that two people claim they are reincarnation of Lenin, Jesus or Caesar and do live elsewhere and do not know each other:

As far as I can tell, this case is unique in reincarnation literature. Most cases involve one hypnotherapist and one subject who recalls one or more past lives. Sometimes the is solid evidence to precisely confirm the recalled events; often the evidence is merely supportive or suggestive. The evidential basis for a very few cases comes from the agreement of two or more subjects recalling participation in the same past-life event while being separately regressed by the same hypnotherapist. The case discussed here goes a step beyond the others in that it involves two different subjects recalling the same lives while being regressed by two different therapists in sessions that were both many miles and several years apart.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

It does happen just let’s take us for example Jesus:

John Nichols Thom (1799–1838), a Cornish tax rebel who claimed to be the "saviour of the world" and the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and his body temple of the Holy Ghost[citation needed] in 1834. He was killed by British soldiers at the Battle of Bossenden Wood, on May 31, 1838 in Kent, England.[2]

Ernest Norman (1904–1971), an American electrical engineer who co-founded the Unarius Academy of Science in 1954, was allegedly Jesus in a past life and his earthly incarnation was as an archangel named Raphiel.[10] He claimed to be the reincarnation of other notable figures including Confucius, Mona Lisa, Benjamin Franklin, Socrates, Queen Elizabeth I, and Tsar Peter I the Great.[11]

Jim Jones (1931–1978), founder of Peoples Temple, which started off as an offshoot of a mainstream protestant sect before becoming a personality cult as time went on. He claimed to be the reincarnation of Jesus, Akhenaten, Buddha, Vladimir Lenin, and Father Divine in the 1970s.[15] Organized a mass murder suicide at Jonestown, Guyana on November 18, 1978.[16] He shot himself after the murders were done.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... o_be_Jesus

5. Problem: They could have learned the information about this case from TV, radio, books or newspapers because they were recalling a lifetime from 1900s and in America, Ohio:

Entirely unknown to one another, a woman in Georgia in 1984 and a man in Florida in 1989 recalled associated lifetimes in Ohio in the early 1900s. During a unique joint session, their love affair and tragic deaths were recounted by both, to the amazement of several witnesses. There could be many similar occurrences, but most will never be known due to the privacy typically observed by therapist and patients.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

6. Problem: There is another problem we do not know everything and we can only believe the patients thanks to this:

There could be many similar occurrences, but most will never be known due to the privacy typically observed by therapist and patients.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

6. Problem: This is a major problem. Turnock saw and heard everything in TV before and then claimed his past life even when he claims he felt bad and? It does not change the fact that he heard and saw everything before:

The exceptional nature of this case only came to light because Jack Turnock happened to be watching a rerun of Unsolved Mysteries in which a woman named Georgia Rudolph was recalling a past life. Her name in the life, she remembered was Sandra Jean Jenkins and she had a boyfriend named Tommy Hicks. As he watched the show Turnock says 4, he began to have strange feelings. When the name Hicks was mentioned, he reports, “Even through I knew what she was going to say, it still felt like I was punched in the solar plexus.” Turnock now a university professor, had undergone hypnotic regression at his wife’s request because she was considering giving a session to her mother as a birthday present. During his session with C with Dr. Bruce Crystal in Jacksonville, Florida C Turnock found himself re-living scenes from the life of a boy in Ohio around the turn of the last century, a boy named Tom Hicks.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

7. Problem: His wife is a believer:

Turnock now a university professor, had undergone hypnotic regression at his wife’s request because she was considering giving a session to her mother as a birthday present.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1


8. Problem: She had only dreams which were bizarre and real like. This is no proof of reincarnation. She could have some form of psychosis therefore she had these nightmares. I know this from experience when I had strong stress I had also strong and vivid dreams like this and I could even feel water that was going to kill me or things like that:

Since early childhood, Georgia Rudolph had been haunted by unexplained memories and recurring dreams in which she seemed to be a young girl – some of the times the girl was about 8 years of age, other times about 18 – living an upper-middle-class life around the turn of the century. She could picture the girl vividly and used to spend hours with her crayons trying to capture her face. The memories were often so realistic that she could fell the icy cold air as she seemed to ride in an open carriage, could smell the horses and the leather of their harnesses, could hear their hoofs striking the pavement.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

9. Problem: The description is also very vague. No name is given from the dreams:

Since early childhood, Georgia Rudolph had been haunted by unexplained memories and recurring dreams in which she seemed to be a young girl – some of the times the girl was about 8 years of age, other times about 18 – living an upper-middle-class life around the turn of the century. She could picture the girl vividly and used to spend hours with her crayons trying to capture her face. The memories were often so realistic that she could fell the icy cold air as she seemed to ride in an open carriage, could smell the horses and the leather of their harnesses, could hear their hoofs striking the pavement.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

10. Problem: All information about Turnock’s involvement is from him:

4 Details of Turnock’s involvement are taken largely from a written statement he submitted to the author on 17 February 2010.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 1

11. Problem: This could be the source of her nightmares that she was adopted plus she read about horses and things from the past.

As she knew that she had been adopted at the age of 5, Rudolph at first assumed that these images must be associated with her earliest childhood.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

12. Problem: She was a believer and did knew about reincarnation even when she did not believe in it according to her words:

At the time, Rudolph did not believe in reincarnation. In fact, she says that the idea frightened her because it “went against everything that I have ever been taught as far as religion goes.”5


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

13. Problem: She was treated by some Dr. Douglas Smith:

At the age of 33, determined to uncover the cause of her dreams and memories that had troubled her so long, Rudolph consulted Dr. Douglas Smith, a clinical psychologist who was the deputy director of a mental health center in Macon, Georgia.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

I have found that in Macon, Georgia are some strange doctors but I could not find Dr. Douglas Smith which is mentioned in the text. So I have my doubts even about this thing. In the text down is mentioned some Dr. Robert Douglas Smith but I extremely doubt it’s the same Dr. Douglas Smith mentioned in the case of Unsolved Mysteries of Georgia Rudolph. I am only posting this to show that psychologists have also their errors and can be biased because they are also humans like us all:

Former psychologist admits to sexual abuse

By Steve Bills

The Macon Telegraph

A former Macon psychologist pleaded guilty Tuesday to criminal charges of having sex with a patient, a woman who was suffering from a multiple personality disorder.

Robert Douglas Smith, 62, received a three-year sentence on the felony charge, but he received probation under the terms of a plea agreement.

Bibb County Superior Court Judge Walker P. Johnson, however, ordered a post-sentence investigation. Johnson indicated that he might invoke sex-offender probation rules on Smith.

Georgia law provides 20 such conditions, although the judge may choose which ones to impose. An offender can be required to register with the sheriff of the county where he lives, for instance, or to live up to a year in a "diversion center," a kind of halfway house.

Johnson will impose the final terms of the probation sometime in the new year.

Smith, a slight man with flowing white hair and a short white beard, spoke briefly at the hearing. He apologized to the victim, who also was in the courtroom, and he acknowledged, "My behavior was inexcusable. It was wrong for me to do. I feel a deep sense of shame and guilt over the emotional pain I have caused her and those around her."

Then he added, "I think there is some good I can do. I had 20 good years helping people in this community, and I ruined it all through my mistake."

The victim also spoke, reading from a prepared statement describing the "utter anguish, torment and suffering I endured as a result of his vile transgressions."

The woman had gone to Smith to seek treatment for a multiple personality condition and anorexia nervosa, an eating disorder. Under the pretext of treating her condition through therapy, Smith fondled her sexually, caused her to turn away from her family and eventually seduced her, having intercourse with her repeatedly over the course of several months while she was his patient, said Graham Thorpe, the prosecutor in the case.

She relapsed into anorexia and was at the point of suicide before another psychologist intervened, Thorpe said.

"There is such an imbalance of power between therapist and patient that there can be no such thing as consent," Thorpe told the judge. "She placed her trust in this man, and he abused her. He damaged her rather than helping."

Defense attorney O. Hale Almand acknowledged the injury to the victim, but he said Smith also has suffered, surrendering his license to practice as a psychologist, losing his career and undergoing a divorce.

"More importantly than that, he lost his professional reputation," Almand said. "There's no way he'll ever gain that back. He is now a pariah in the psychological-psychotherapy community."

Indeed, Donald Meck was incredulous on hearing that Smith had received a sentence of probation. Meck, a Warner Robins psychologist who serves on the State Board of Examiners of Psychologists, said, "I can't believe he got off. The evidence we looked at, at the board, was awfully strong, and it is amazing to me that he is going to walk the street."


Taken from: http://www.ect.org/shame/sex2.html

14. Problem: Dr. Smith thanks to this sentence shows that he is open to reincarnation:

Smith wasn’t expecting a past-life recall either. He states that, when he began to treat Rudolph, “reincarnation was probably the last thing in my mind about what had happened to her.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

15. Problem: So she never specifically identified the town but deduced it. Wow:

Although she never specifically identified the town, the name “Marietta” kept surfacing and she deduced that Marietta, Ohio was the location of the recalled events.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

16. Problem: Marietta, Ohio is a very known town that she could easily read about:

Although she never specifically identified the town, the name “Marietta” kept surfacing and she deduced that Marietta, Ohio was the location of the recalled events.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

Here is the info on Marietta:

Marietta is a city in and the county seat of Washington County, Ohio, United States.[6] During 1788, pioneers to the Ohio Country established Marietta as the first permanent settlement of the new United States in the Territory Northwest of the River Ohio. Marietta is located in southeastern Ohio at the mouth of the Muskingum River at its confluence with the Ohio River. The population was 14,085 at the 2010 census.

It is the second-largest city in the Parkersburg-Marietta-Vienna, West Virginia-Ohio (part) Metropolitan Statistical Area. The private, nonsectarian liberal arts Marietta College is located here. It was a station on the Underground Railroad before the Civil War.

This is the site of the prehistoric Marietta Earthworks, a Hopewell complex more than 1500 years old, whose Great Mound and other major monuments were preserved by the earliest United States settlers in parks such as the Mound Cemetery.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marietta,_Ohio

17. Problem: Marietta is not only in Ohio as a place and has a couple of other uses:

Although she never specifically identified the town, the name “Marietta” kept surfacing and she deduced that Marietta, Ohio was the location of the recalled events.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

Info here about other uses:

Places[edit]

In the United States:
Marietta, Jacksonville, Florida, a neighborhood
Marietta, Georgia
Marietta, Illinois
Marietta, Indiana
Marietta, Minnesota
Marietta, Mississippi
Marietta, Nevada, ghost town
Marietta, New York
Marietta, North Carolina
Marietta, Ohio
Marietta, Oklahoma, city in Love County
Marietta, Adair County, Oklahoma, census-designated place
Marietta, Pennsylvania
Marietta, South Carolina
Marietta, Texas
Marietta, Wisconsin
Marietta-Alderwood, Washington
Marietta Township (disambiguation)
Marietta (Glenn Dale, Maryland), a historic home

People[edit]
Marietta Alboni (1823–1894), renowned Italian contralto opera singer
Marietta Blau (1894–1970), Austrian physicist
Marietta Chrousala (born 1983), Greek fashion model and television presenter
Marietta de Patras (died 1503), Greek mistress of King John II of Cyprus and the mother of his illegitimate son King James II of Cyprus
Marietta de Pourbaix-Lundin (born 1951), Swedish politician of the Moderate Party
Marietta DePrima (born 1964), American TV actress
Marietta Farrell (born 1951), Irish politician
Marietta Gazzaniga (1824–1884), Italian operatic soprano
Marietta Giannakou (born 1951), Greek politician
Marietta Gillman (born c. 1955), American slalom canoer
Marietta Holley (1836–1926), American humorist who used satire to comment on U.S. society
Marietta Johnson (1864–1938), educational reformer
Marietta Karamanli (born 1964), member of the National Assembly of France
Marietta LeBreton (1936–2009), historian of Louisiana
Marietta Marich (born c. 1938), American actress, singer, writer, stage director and television host
Marietta Martin (1902–1944), French writer, journalist and French Resistance worker
Marietta Piccolomini (1834–1899), Italian soprano
Marietta Roberts (born 1943), former politician in Ontario, Canada
Marietta Robusti (1560–1590), female Venetian painter of the Renaissance period
Marietta Sacchi, an Italian operatic soprano
Marietta Shaginyan (1888–1982), Soviet writer and public activist
Marietta Stow (19th-century–1902), American suffragist
Marietta Peabody Tree (1917–1991), American socialite and political supporter
Marietta Žigalová (born 1968), former professional Slovak female fitness competitor
Marietta Waters (born c. 1960), also known as Marietta, American singer active in the 1980s with some work in 2003
Marietta Marcolini (1780–19th-century), Italian operatic contralto
Ships[edit]
USS Marietta, several ships in the Navy
SS Marietta, a number of ships with this or similar names
Marietta-class monitor, a pair of ironclad river monitors laid down in the summer of 1862 for the United States Navy during the American Civil War
Other uses[edit]
Battle of Marietta, a series of military operations in Cobb County, Georgia, between Union and Confederate forces during the American Civil War
Marietta biscuit, the name in Ireland for the Marie biscuit
Marietta Canty House, a Queen Anne style house located in Hartford, Connecticut
Marietta City Schools (disambiguation)
Marietta College, a co-educational private college in Marietta, Ohio
Marietta Confederate Cemetery, the largest Confederate cemetery South of Richmond
Marietta High School (disambiguation)
Marietta Historic District (disambiguation)
Marietta Ice Center, the oldest ice skating rink in metro Atlanta, Georgia
Marietta National Cemetery, a United States National Cemetery located in the city of Marietta, Georgia
Marietta Parkway, a ring road in Marietta, Georgia
Marietta Register, a weekly newspaper published in Marietta, Ohio
Marietta Seven, defendants on a murder charge who were subsequently exonerated
Marietta Square, park and city center in Marietta, Georgia
Marietta Storm, a World Basketball Association franchise based in Marietta, Georgia


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marietta

18. Problem: Its made for a TV series about unexplained stuff no wonder no one is skeptical here. It can be also a whole hoax:

When the sessions were concluded, Dr. Smith testified: “Georgia seems to me a very down-to-earth person… I think she’s a very stable individual…She is not faking or pretending.” As a further testament to her character, the producers of the television segment stated, “What’s definite about Georgia’s story is that, meeting her and spending the time we spent with her while we were doing this story, you know she wasn’t making this up.”6


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

19. Problem: Again its for a TV series and this all can be a hoax and edited to be looked like a paranormal event:

5 All quotes in this article that lack source data come from the television series Unsolved Mysteries, season 2, episode 21, first airing on 14 February 1990.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

20. Problem: The memories are not so significant and some of them are very vague:

Rudolph’s memories of special significance included:
Many scenes on a stern-wheel riverboat, and a feeling that it belonged to her family.
Her fiancé named Tommy Hicks by whom she was pregnant.
Tommy’s parents were named Tom and Jennie Hicks.
Walking from a church through a graveyard to a specific tombstone. She could not read the name on the stone, but she saw that it was near the statue of an angel with one arm upraised.
A large white house that felt like home.
The death of Hicks just prior to their wedding when his boat hit a sandbar in a storm and he was swept from the deck.
Her grief at his death and her shame over her pregnancy leading her to suicide by drowning.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

21. Problem: She had a feeling that the river boat belongs to her family and that is a hit?:

Rudolph’s memories of special significance included: Many scenes on a stern-wheel riverboat, and a feeling that it belonged to her family.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

22. Problem: She could deduce the name of his father because the son was named Tommy:

Her fiancé named Tommy Hicks by whom she was pregnant.
Tommy’s parents were named Tom and Jennie Hicks.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

23. Problem: We do not know what was on the tombstone in the dream:

Walking from a church through a graveyard to a specific tombstone. She could not read the name on the stone, but she saw that it was near the statue of an angel with one arm upraised.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

24. Problem: Again she felt like this. Wow I should start to bet my life on feelings more(sarcasm):

A large white house that felt like home.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

25. Problem: This sounds like a typical Hollywood cliché:

The death of Hicks just prior to their wedding when his boat hit a sandbar in a storm and he was swept from the deck.
Her grief at his death and her shame over her pregnancy leading her to suicide by drowning.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

26. Problem: The stern-wheel riverboat is very well known in Marietta Ohio:

Rudolph’s memories of special significance included:
Many scenes on a stern-wheel riverboat, and a feeling that it belonged to her family.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

There is even a Marietta Ohio Sternwheel Festival that Georgia could have read about:

The Ohio River Sternwheel Festival was the brainchild of Harry Robinson and Captains Gene Fitch and Bob Limle. The first Ohio River Sternwheel Festival took place the weekend after Labor Day 1976. This festival was held to encourage tourism to the Marietta area as well as preserve the riverboat heritage for which our area is well known.

Over the years, this festival has grown tremendously, attracting an estimated 100,000 people to the Marietta area during the weekend. In addition to the 30-35 authentic sternwheel boats that line the river bank, we offer a full weekend of free, quality, family oriented entertainment and the best fireworks anywhere. Some of the other events that take place during the weekend include: Children's Activities; Coronation of Queen Genevieve, with scholarships awarded; Little Miss and Little Mr. Sternwheel Pageant; Sunday Sunrise Service; Rollin' Oldies Car Show, and a Photo Contest.


Taken from: http://www.ohioriversternwheelfestival.org/who_we_are

27. Problem: This shows that Dr. Smith is with the producers of the film and was in for the money:

The apparent link between his own past-life recollections and those of Georgia Rudolph stunned and perplexed Turnock. ”I didn’t know what to do with the information,” he says, so he “decided to deal with it by not dealing with it.” And so, six months passed until one day he happened to turn on his television only to be confronted by yet another re-run of the disturbing Unsolved Mysteries segment. Once again, Turnock was both fascinated and agitated by the show. This time, his wife decided to do something about this disruption to her household, so she wrote a letter to Dr. Smith describing the situation. Smith contacted the shows producers who ultimately decided that Turnock was for real and that a follow-up show should be made in which Rudolph and Turnock would be videotaped during a joint hypnosis session.The filming (or rather, the attempted filming) was done in Smiths office in Macon, Georgia. Turnock was not allowed to meet Rudolph until after he was regressed.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 3

28. Problem: Its from Unsolved Mysteries a woo program:

The apparent link between his own past-life recollections and those of Georgia Rudolph stunned and perplexed Turnock. ”I didn’t know what to do with the information,” he says, so he “decided to deal with it by not dealing with it.” And so, six months passed until one day he happened to turn on his television only to be confronted by yet another re-run of the disturbing Unsolved Mysteries segment. Once again, Turnock was both fascinated and agitated by the show. This time, his wife decided to do something about this disruption to her household, so she wrote a letter to Dr. Smith describing the situation. Smith contacted the shows producers who ultimately decided that Turnock was for real and that a follow-up show should be made in which Rudolph and Turnock would be videotaped during a joint hypnosis session.The filming (or rather, the attempted filming) was done in Smiths office in Macon, Georgia. Turnock was not allowed to meet Rudolph until after he was regressed.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 3

Here is the info:

Unsolved Mysteries is an American television show that shockingly presents unsolved mysteries. While mostly focusing on solving crimes or reuniting people, it was also known for presenting paranormal stories in a respectable way that made them seem plausible.

The show began as a series of specials in 1987 on the NBC network, then as a series from 1988 to 1997. It moved to CBS from 1997 to 1999, then to the cable channel Lifetime (2001-2002), then Spike (2008-2010), and back to Lifetime (2010-present).


Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Unsolved_Mysteries

29. Problem: Turnock saw the Unsolved Mysteries segment more times:

The apparent link between his own past-life recollections and those of Georgia Rudolph stunned and perplexed Turnock. ”I didn’t know what to do with the information,” he says, so he “decided to deal with it by not dealing with it.” And so, six months passed until one day he happened to turn on his television only to be confronted by yet another re-run of the disturbing Unsolved Mysteries segment. Once again, Turnock was both fascinated and agitated by the show.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 3

30. Problem: This one is the kicker. They did not film it. Wow. What a pathetic excuse. So we are again here to believe in their word:

In the afternoon, Dr. Smith hypnotized both Rudolph and Turnock together. Turnock describes the experience as being the weirdest part of all. “We both went under fairly easily and we began talking to each other as Tom and Sandra Jean. It was the most surreal experience of my life. It was as if another person had taken over my body and I was watching it happen. Tom told Sandra Jean how he was sorry he left her that way. She forgave him. They/we held hands, reiterated our love and said goodbye. It was incredibly emotional. I was so drained I couldn’t move for half an hour. Jim Lindsey, the Unsolved Mysteries director was literally dancing around, saying it was the best sequence they ever filmed.” Trouble was, they did not actually film the session. Although the equipment was turned on, the cables were connected, and the scene was showing on the monitor, the videotape recorded nothing but static. How and why this bewildering failure occurred is perhaps the biggest unsolved mystery of all.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 3

31. Problem: This is nothing special. I was blown out by a Nightwish live concert for 2 days because it was so emotionally great and I was not under hypnosis. This stuff happens and no magic needed. The atmosphere can do magical things:

In the afternoon, Dr. Smith hypnotized both Rudolph and Turnock together. Turnock describes the experience as being the weirdest part of all. “We both went under fairly easily and we began talking to each other as Tom and Sandra Jean. It was the most surreal experience of my life. It was as if another person had taken over my body and I was watching it happen. Tom told Sandra Jean how he was sorry he left her that way. She forgave him. They/we held hands, reiterated our love and said goodbye. It was incredibly emotional. I was so drained I couldn’t move for half an hour.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 3

32. Problem: No written document of Sandra Jean Jenkins was found. The name could have been made up:

No written record of a Sandra Jean Jenkins has been found in Marietta or Newport, Ohio, but there is a record of a Tom and Jennie Hicks (could well have been Tommy’s parents) buying a farm in Newport in 1906.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Pages: 3-4

33. Problem: No true information about Tom and Jennie Hicks besides buying a farm in Newport was found:

No written record of a Sandra Jean Jenkins has been found in Marietta or Newport, Ohio, but there is a record of a Tom and Jennie Hicks (could well have been Tommy’s parents) buying a farm in Newport in 1906.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Pages: 3-4

34. Problem: This is somehow stupid. I think that even suicide would be listed:

No written record of a Sandra Jean Jenkins has been found in Marietta or Newport, Ohio, but there is a record of a Tom and Jennie Hicks (could well have been Tommy’s parents) buying a farm in Newport in 1906. Rudolph thinks that no records were kept of Jenkins because the girl committed suicide.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Pages: 3-4

35. Problem: This is a pathetic excuses and perhaps its all a lie? Why the believers cannot think about it that its just a show with no real evidence?:

No written record of a Sandra Jean Jenkins has been found in Marietta or Newport, Ohio, but there is a record of a Tom and Jennie Hicks (could well have been Tommy’s parents) buying a farm in Newport in 1906. Rudolph thinks that no records were kept of Jenkins because the girl committed suicide. Perhaps that is correct, or perhaps the records were accidentally destroyed, or perhaps they will be uncovered yet. It is also conceivable that the name “Sandra Jean Jenkins” is some sort of spiritual pseudonym intended to protect the reputation of the Greene family. Whatever the case, the evidentiality of the case must rest on something other then public records.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Pages: 3-4

36. Problem: The page 4 offers only strong bias against skeptics and a pathetic rebuttal which shows that the person writing this did not check the facts as that there are more Marietta towns in America and other details which stink also fighting for a TV program which claims to be genuine is rather pathetic. It’s a TV program made to sell and not to tell the truth. Check it for yourself because I am tired of re-writing the whole pdf.:

Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 4

I will now look into the web-page:

http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

37. Problem: Too vague statements for reincarnation:

“There’s a lot of sensation. I feel the cold. I feel the night. I smell the horses. I smell the leather. I can feel the girl. But it feels like myself climbing on this carriage and going down the road, and I can hear the sound of the horses’ hooves.”


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

38. Problem: Its normal the memories became more frequent when she was drawing the picture all the time and was possessed by it:

“As I child, I don’t think there was a month that went by that I didn’t have either memories or dreams. I used to draw a picture of this girl. I’ve also drawn a picture of a house since I was five. And the house would go with the girl. And if I didn’t get her right, I would erase her or tear it up and start all over again. I knew exactly how this girl was supposed to look.”

As Georgia grew older, the incidents became more frequent.


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

39. Problem: I doubt she never seen a paddle-wheel steamer and all we have are her own words and nothing more:

But all of her visions seemed to come from the early 1900s. There were no cars or planes. But there were repeated images of paddle-wheel steamers, which Georgia said she had never seen in her own lifetime:

“It’s not like a childhood memory. It feels different. It’s like taking a picture from my mind, projecting it on a screen and just replaying it over and over.”


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

40. Problem: Again very vague statements. I have also dreams about the 2nd World War and Nazis but its because I am now playing Wolfenstein and I have read a lot about the 2nd World War so its no surprise for me. Also my dreams the Nazis are not always behaving like in a game sometimes they are in different scenarios that are not in the game or in what I read:

A river played a large part in Georgia’s dreams. So did a young man dressed in a brown suit and wearing a derby hat. Sometimes he was alone. Sometimes he was with the girl, and always there were the images of a horse-drawn carriage on a cold winter night.


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

41. Problem: The doctor made a error he asked her who she is and she responded according to her imagination:

Dr. Smith began regressive hypnosis with Georgia in 1984. This type of therapy allows the patient to go back in time but still remember everything. For our story, Georgia agreed to, once again, undergo hypnosis:

“During the first session of hypnosis, he asked me a question and referred to me as ‘Georgia.’ I remember very vividly saying, ‘I don’t know who you’re talking to.’ And he said, ‘Well, if this isn’t Georgia, then who is it? And I remember saying, ‘My name is Sandra Jean Jenkins.’”


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

41. Problem: The doctor is not a skeptic. He is quite easily impressed:

During the hypnosis session, Georgia also revealed that Sandra was born in 1895, and had a boyfriend. She said she had brown hair and brown eyes. Dr. Smith was amazed by Georgia’s memories:

“Georgia seems to me to be a very down to earth person. And it surprised me when she came out with the amount of emotion and effect and details that she did under hypnosis.”


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

42. Problem: Georgia began to believe in her false memories because she even began to believe in it:

Georgia came to believe that the face she had drawn so many times had a name: Sandra Jean Jenkins.


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

43. Problem: Multiple sessions this could cause that she is adding new information and making new false memories which happened here:

Georgia came to believe that the face she had drawn so many times had a name: Sandra Jean Jenkins. This was the girl in her memories and her dreams. In further sessions, Georgia filled in the details of her visions. She could now clearly see Sandra Jean on a paddle wheel steamer. One of the men on the boat was the young man in the derby hat. His name was Tommy Hicks. He and Sandra Jean were sweethearts. The sessions also revealed that the two of them were about to be married, which shocked Georgia:


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

44. Problem: The doctor himself was quickly fooled or was a believer from the beginning:

Dr. Smith believed the memories were real experiences for Georgia:

“She is very sincere in her belief that she actually subjectively experienced all of the things that she has experienced in that past life that she described. She’s not faking or pretending.”


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

45. Problem: Georgia arranged the meeting so she could have know the person:

But were the visions that haunted Georgia Rudolph for more than thirty years really proof of reincarnation? Under hypnosis, she was repeatedly drawn to the town of Marietta, Ohio. So in 1985, she decided to visit, hoping to see if there was any truth to her dreams. Georgia arranged to meet with a reporter named Ted Bauer, a life-long resident of Marietta who had worked for the local newspaper for 32 years.


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

46. Problem: She described it ALMOST perfectly and not perfectly:

At one point during their visit, Georgia stopped in front of an insurance company and began describing the interior of an ice cream parlor. The ice cream parlor had closed in 1937, eleven years before Georgia was even born. Ted was amazed:

“She described the interior almost perfectly. I checked this with the son of the man who had run it for years. In a way it seems crazy, but what do you do? She was accurate about her descriptions. I was just baffled by her.”


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

47. Problem: There can be many cemeteries like this in the world and the description is rather vague:

Throughout Georgia’s life, one dream had always stood out as more haunting than all the others. In it, she saw Sandra Jean as a young girl alone on the steps of a church. According to Georgia:

“In the dream, I know she has to walk exactly two blocks and she’s standing in front of a cemetery. And there’s a path that goes off to the right and it curves and twists in different directions. And then the path eventually straightens out. And when she gets to the point where it straightens out, she’s on the side of hill, looking down on a grave, which I know to be her grandmother’s grave. But I’m never able to get the name off the headstone because it’s that point that I wake up.”


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

48. Problem: There is no identification of Sandra or if she even existed:

Georgia also located the Greene family’s nearest living relatives, who gave her evidence that Sandra Jean Jenkins actually existed:

“They brought out a picture taken in 1908. It’s a family reunion picture. And the girl that I call Sandra that I have drawn my entire life is standing in that picture. There was a statement made by a member of the family, ‘I don’t know this girl’s name, but I know she drowned out back of the house.’”

In the family photograph, the girl from Georgia’s dreams seems to be standing slightly apart from those around her. The photograph includes a roster of names. Every single person is identified, except the girl Georgia recognized as Sandra Jean.


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

49. Problem: Doctor Smith does not believe it either and doubts it in the end:

Although Georgia’s findings are amazingly accurate to her memories, her clinical psychologist, Dr. Douglas Smith, still has doubts:

“Almost every culture at one time or another has had a belief in reincarnation. Sometimes I think, in fact, that it’s a metaphor for man’s anger over the brevity of life. In terms of whether reincarnation is a real fact or not, as a scientist, I don’t know. I want proof. I’m a doubter. But as a human being, I would love to have it be the truth.”


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

50. Problem: Even Georgia is conflicted about it:

But Georgia Rudolph:

“I believe that reincarnation is real, but I’m not sure what reincarnation is. I know there’s something to it. I have had an experience that a lot of people don’t get to have. My logic often times will tell me now this isn’t real. But my heart tells me, yes it is.


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

51. Problem: Georgia was in that town before and the TV series were done later on:

Here she is visiting the town in 1985:
But were the visions that haunted Georgia Rudolph for more than thirty years really proof of reincarnation? Under hypnosis, she was repeatedly drawn to the town of Marietta, Ohio. So in 1985, she decided to visit, hoping to see if there was any truth to her dreams. Georgia arranged to meet with a reporter named Ted Bauer, a life-long resident of Marietta who had worked for the local newspaper for 32 years.


Taken from: http://www.unsolved.com/ajaxfiles/psy_g ... udolph.htm

The TV part was done in 1990 because it was first time aired in 1990 so it could have been done in 1989. So still there are 4 years to give. So we have only a story:

5 All quotes in this article that lack source data come from the television series Unsolved Mysteries, season 2, episode 21, first airing on 14 February 1990.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... lovers.pdf
Page: 2

Conclusion of part 9: This was a long case. In the end what to say I have found 50 problems and this was done in a quick look. The whole case seems to me quite exaggerated because all was done under hypnosis which shows problems. Another thing is it was made for a TV show. The real actual problem that is unsolved for me in this case is Dr. Douglas Smith. I think he done some things for money and fame for the TV show but also he is doubtful in the end. So I do not know where to put him. In the end I however think that this case is pretty weak. There are several flaws and I mean huge flaws. In the end I have nothing more to say. This case is NO proof of reincarnation. It is NOT even a hint of reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

Note2: I made a grammar mistake here:

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences in the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

I wanted to tell this not that one. Sorry English is not my first language:

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

If you don’t believe me check it for yourself therefore I post the link there under the text.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:56 pm

Part 10: A Submariner Resurfaces

Here is the new case:

1991 ∗ A Submariner Resurfaces [ID#59] 284 Brown


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf

Here is also the info: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

So lets look on the problems here:

1. Problem: Again hypnotherapy which showed its problems which was discussed above in this thread:

Bruce Kelly, of Glendora, California, was just such a soul in November 1987, when he showed up at the office of hypnotherapist Rick Brown.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: This person suffers from a lot of mental problems so I think he is quite gullible to a paranormal explanation. Also I think that the chest and stomach pain was thanks to the stress he had. I also had these when during strong stress and I witnessed these in patients also who were in strong stress:

Kelly disclosed that, whenever he was on an airplane, he was overwhelmed with terror the moment the cabin doors were latched. He could think of no reason for his fear. Nor could he explain why he was so very, very afraid of water. He could only shower if his back was to the spray and he was simply unable to force himself to climb into a bathtub. On a few occasions when he had been immersed in water he had become dizzy, nauseous, and suffered from trembling and cramps. On top of all that, he was regularly troubled by stabbing pains in the stomach and chest that no doctor had been able to explain.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

Its even here and it has a name its called Psychogenic pain:

Psychogenic pain, also called psychalgia,[1] is physical pain that is caused, increased, or prolonged by mental, emotional, or behavioral factors.[2][3][4]

Headache, back pain, or stomach pain are some of the most common types of psychogenic pain.[2] It may occur, rarely, in persons with a mental disorder, but more commonly it accompanies or is induced by social rejection, broken heart, grief, love sickness, or other such emotional events.

Sufferers are often stigmatized, because both medical professionals and the general public tend to think that pain from psychological source is not "real". However, specialists consider that it is no less actual or hurtful than pain from other sources.[citation needed]

The International Association for the Study of Pain defines pain as "an unpleasant sensory and emotional experience associated with actual or potential tissue damage, or described in terms of such damage" (emphasis added). In the note accompanying that definition, the following can be found about pain that happens for psychological reasons:[5]

Many people report pain in the absence of tissue damage or any likely pathophysiological cause; usually this happens for psychological reasons. There is usually no way to distinguish their experience from that due to tissue damage if we take the subjective report. If they regard their experience as pain and if they report it in the same ways as pain caused by tissue damage, it should be accepted as pain.

Medicine refers also to psychogenic pain or psychalgia as a form of chronic pain under the name of persistent somatoform pain disorder[6] or functional pain syndrome.[7] Causes may be linked to stress, unexpressed emotional conflicts, psychosocial problems, or various mental disorders. Some specialists believe that psychogenic chronic pain exists as a protective distraction to keep dangerous repressed emotions such as anger or rage unconscious.[8]

It remains controversial, however, that chronic pain might arise purely from emotional causes.[9] Treatment may include psychotherapy, antidepressants, analgesics, and other remedies that are used for chronic pain in general.[10]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychogenic_pain

3. Problem: Rick Brown the hypnotherapists was a believer in past-life regression and even here he believed that a past-life was responsible for the problems:

Rick Brown was a Certified Hypnotherapist who had successfully treated many patients complaining of inexplicable maladies. Although only about one percent of his patients experienced past-life recall while regressed, he felt that Kelly could well be reacting to events that had occurred in a previous lifetime.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

4. Problem: Shark, SS-174 is a known sub:

Brown hypnotized Kelly and asked him ”to recall the time and place where he was first affected by the terror.” The entranced Kelly responded, “I’m in a submarine…I’m dying.”2 His name, he said was James Edward Johnston. Then he told a fearsome story of death by drowning in a small, lightless, metal chamber, on the 11th of February, 1942. He said his submarine, the Shark, SS-174, was submerged near Celebes Island when it was attacked by depth-charges for the second time in two days. This time, he was not on duty because he had been confined to his bunk with two broken ribs suffered during the first attack. This time, the Japanese were more accurate, and Johnston was caught in a rush seawater as he tried to reach his station. He and all the crew were dead before the submarine had settled on the ocean floor.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the info:

USS Shark (SS-174) was a Porpoise-class submarine, the fifth ship of the United States Navy to be named for the shark. Her keel was laid down by the Electric Boat Company in Groton, Connecticut, on 24 October 1933. She was launched on 21 May 1935 (sponsored by Miss Ruth Ellen Lonergan, 12-year-old daughter of United States Senator Augustine Lonergan of Connecticut), and commissioned on 25 January 1936, Lieutenant C.J. Carter in command.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Shark_(SS-174)

5. Problem: The submarine probably sunk:

Brown hypnotized Kelly and asked him ”to recall the time and place where he was first affected by the terror.” The entranced Kelly responded, “I’m in a submarine…I’m dying.”2 His name, he said was James Edward Johnston. Then he told a fearsome story of death by drowning in a small, lightless, metal chamber, on the 11th of February, 1942. He said his submarine, the Shark, SS-174, was submerged near Celebes Island when it was attacked by depth-charges for the second time in two days. This time, he was not on duty because he had been confined to his bunk with two broken ribs suffered during the first attack. This time, the Japanese were more accurate, and Johnston was caught in a rush seawater as he tried to reach his station. He and all the crew were dead before the submarine had settled on the ocean floor.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the info:

Fate: Probably sunk by Japanese destroyer Yamakaze east of Manado, 11 February 1942[2]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Shark_(SS-174)

6. Problem: It is probably it was sunk by depth charge:

Brown hypnotized Kelly and asked him ”to recall the time and place where he was first affected by the terror.” The entranced Kelly responded, “I’m in a submarine…I’m dying.”2 His name, he said was James Edward Johnston. Then he told a fearsome story of death by drowning in a small, lightless, metal chamber, on the 11th of February, 1942. He said his submarine, the Shark, SS-174, was submerged near Celebes Island when it was attacked by depth-charges for the second time in two days. This time, he was not on duty because he had been confined to his bunk with two broken ribs suffered during the first attack. This time, the Japanese were more accurate, and Johnston was caught in a rush seawater as he tried to reach his station. He and all the crew were dead before the submarine had settled on the ocean floor.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the info:

Thus indications point to the probability that SHARK was lost through enemy depth charge attack; however, the specific attack responsible for the loss cannot be determined. The one on February 11 off Menado is thought most likely, since SHARK had been ordered to northern Celebes.


Taken from: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/SS-174_Shark.pdf
Page: 4

7. Problem: He claims his past life in 1942 but the man is from 1987:

Brown hypnotized Kelly and asked him ”to recall the time and place where he was first affected by the terror.” The entranced Kelly responded, “I’m in a submarine…I’m dying.”2 His name, he said was James Edward Johnston. Then he told a fearsome story of death by drowning in a small, lightless, metal chamber, on the 11th of February, 1942. He said his submarine, the Shark, SS-174, was submerged near Celebes Island when it was attacked by depth-charges for the second time in two days. This time, he was not on duty because he had been confined to his bunk with two broken ribs suffered during the first attack. This time, the Japanese were more accurate, and Johnston was caught in a rush seawater as he tried to reach his station. He and all the crew were dead before the submarine had settled on the ocean floor.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

He came to Brown in 1987:

Bruce Kelly, of Glendora, California, was just such a soul in November 1987, when he showed up at the office of hypnotherapist Rick Brown.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

8. Problem: The whole list can be easily found who served there on Shark, SS-174 because we all have this to this day:

Brown hypnotized Kelly and asked him ”to recall the time and place where he was first affected by the terror.” The entranced Kelly responded, “I’m in a submarine…I’m dying.”2 His name, he said was James Edward Johnston. Then he told a fearsome story of death by drowning in a small, lightless, metal chamber, on the 11th of February, 1942. He said his submarine, the Shark, SS-174, was submerged near Celebes Island when it was attacked by depth-charges for the second time in two days. This time, he was not on duty because he had been confined to his bunk with two broken ribs suffered during the first attack. This time, the Japanese were more accurate, and Johnston was caught in a rush seawater as he tried to reach his station. He and all the crew were dead before the submarine had settled on the ocean floor.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the list:

Sailors Lost On USS SHARK I (SS 174) 2-11-1942
Bellard, Theodore
Allen MM1
Blanchard, Walter Raleigh
CTM Bolton, John Alden RM1 Brannan, Thomas Leo S1
Byus, Grady "G", Jr.
MM1 Cassidy, Earl LTJG Cooley, John Paul MM2 Crawford, Billy Brant F3
Croft, Albert Edward
EM1
Dawson, William Thomas
EM2 Denby, Edwin, Jr. LTJG Dillen, Roscoe F., Jr.
LTJG
Ejaype, Paulino OS1 Estes, Roland Ashby EM1 Evans, Ferdinand Alois
MM2
Evans, Truman Floyd
TM1
Fabra, Agapito OS3 Farrell, Fred Howell TM1 Fruit, Albert David MM1 Gilman, Merrill Ray
MMA
Giminez, Pedro SC1 Glass, Lawrence Carlton S1 Iverson, James Andrew F1 Jeffreys, Romie Lloyd
CMM
Johnston, James
Edward F2 Jones, Clifford Earl TM1 Lester, Jesse Augustus
PHM2
Lidgerding, William
Charles RM2

TM2 Lund, Arnold Raymond MM1 Markin, Loran Robert F2 MC Elroy, Rex Edgar
EM2
MC Kinney, Kenneth
Ernest EM2 Miller, Robert Francis F2 Moran, Arthur Patrick CMM Morris, Fred Joseph SM1
Myer, Warren Hasting
MM2 Pechacek, Ermin Josep SM2 Perkins, Avery Evande S1 Pettit, Robert Lee CMMA
Philabert, Frank
Florestine ENS
Pilgram, Edward Walte
CEMA Polidori, Bennie John EM1 Sandmann, Karl Lother
Y2
Shmitt, Henry Louis
MM2 Shane, Louis, Jr. LCDR Smith, John Howell CEM Smith, Thayne Charles
TM2
Spilman, Thomas
Punchard RM3 Stephens, Robert Houston S1 Striegler, Herman Fredrick
EM1
Thew, Richard Ridley
FC1
Tubre, Henry Oran S2 Turoczy, John Alfred SC1 Warren, Roland Henry MM2 White, James Kenneth
GM1
Worsham, John Murry
TM3 Yanks, Charles Robert SM2 Zeorlin, Harold TM2


Taken from: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/SS-174_Shark.pdf
Pages: 4-5

9. Problem: This is pathetic. His pain was not caused by rib injuries but by psychosomatic illness made by stress:

These specific details and more were revealed during Kelly’s first past-life regression. Not only were all of them confirmed by extensive research, 3 the session was successfully therapeutic – his fears of closed spaces and water faded away and he no longer experienced the pains in his torso(apparently caused by his past-life rib injuries).


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

Its even here and it has a name its called Psychogenic pain:

Psychogenic pain, also called psychalgia,[1] is physical pain that is caused, increased, or prolonged by mental, emotional, or behavioral factors.[2][3][4]

Headache, back pain, or stomach pain are some of the most common types of psychogenic pain.[2] It may occur, rarely, in persons with a mental disorder, but more commonly it accompanies or is induced by social rejection, broken heart, grief, love sickness, or other such emotional events.

Sufferers are often stigmatized, because both medical professionals and the general public tend to think that pain from psychological source is not "real". However, specialists consider that it is no less actual or hurtful than pain from other sources.[citation needed]

The International Association for the Study of Pain defines pain as "an unpleasant sensory and emotional experience associated with actual or potential tissue damage, or described in terms of such damage" (emphasis added). In the note accompanying that definition, the following can be found about pain that happens for psychological reasons:[5]

Many people report pain in the absence of tissue damage or any likely pathophysiological cause; usually this happens for psychological reasons. There is usually no way to distinguish their experience from that due to tissue damage if we take the subjective report. If they regard their experience as pain and if they report it in the same ways as pain caused by tissue damage, it should be accepted as pain.

Medicine refers also to psychogenic pain or psychalgia as a form of chronic pain under the name of persistent somatoform pain disorder[6] or functional pain syndrome.[7] Causes may be linked to stress, unexpressed emotional conflicts, psychosocial problems, or various mental disorders. Some specialists believe that psychogenic chronic pain exists as a protective distraction to keep dangerous repressed emotions such as anger or rage unconscious.[8]

It remains controversial, however, that chronic pain might arise purely from emotional causes.[9] Treatment may include psychotherapy, antidepressants, analgesics, and other remedies that are used for chronic pain in general.[10]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychogenic_pain

No need to jump on ghosts and reincarnation stories.

10. Problem: I would like to see the extensive research and what was proven because I even found Johnston and there is also only that he probably died that way:

These specific details and more were revealed during Kelly’s first past-life regression. Not only were all of them confirmed by extensive research, 3 the session was successfully therapeutic – his fears of closed spaces and water faded away and he no longer experienced the pains in his torso(apparently caused by his past-life rib injuries).


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the info:

James Edward Johnston

Rank/Rate Fireman, Second Class
Service Number 272 36 38
Birth Date February 1, 1921
From Jacksonville, Alabama
Decorations Purple Heart
Submarine USS Shark (SS-174)
Loss Date February 11, 1942
Location East of Menado, Celebes
Circumstances Probably sunk by depth charge attack


Taken from: http://www.oneternalpatrol.com/johnston-j-e.htm

11. Problem: He was cured but wanted to continue? Wow. Also another thing he was a Christian but knew about reincarnation and the doctor seems interested in it. I smell a bias and something fishy here:

Although the goal of the hypnotherapy had been reached, the therapist was intrigued by the case and wanted to see what else might surface. Although he was a born-again Christian at the time, and could not accept the idea of reincarnation, the subject was likewise curious and agreed to further sessions.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

12. Problem: Again that stupid show? Wow do everyone believe what is in the TV without some critical thinking? :

Rick Brown made three trips to Alabama researching the case; on the third, he was accompanied by Bruce Kelly. This trip was filmed, and was shown, in part, on a segment of Unsolved Mysteries.5


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 2

13. Problem: It all was researched by Rick Brown who even went there so we have only the word of this person and his patient:

Rick Brown made three trips to Alabama researching the case; on the third, he was accompanied by Bruce Kelly. This trip was filmed, and was shown, in part, on a segment of Unsolved Mysteries.5


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 2

14. Problem: Other details were presented later on:

The three full names of crewmen, the ships name and number, and the date and location of the sinking were all recalled during the first regression session, before anyone had the chance to look up anything. The scores of facts and intimate details brought to light in later sessions and confirmed by independent investigators negate all feasibility of conspiracy or misrepresentation.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 2

15. Problem: It was published in a woo journal which no longer exists because the organization itself was closed:

This is one of the strongest reincarnation cases I know of. It was featured, as I understand, on "Unsolved Mysteries," and the author published an article about it, a condensed presentation of the book, in "The Journal of Regression Therapy," but the case has all but slipped into obscurity and the book is nearly impossible to find.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

Here is the Journal:

Journal of Regression Therapy

The Journal of Regression Therapy is published by the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies, Inc. (IARRT), a non-profit organization founded in 1980 as The Association for Past Life Research and Therapies (APRT). APRT published the first Journal of Regression Therapy in 1986. Produced by the professional organization of therapists using regression, researchers into the field of regressive therapies, and students and interested laymen, IARRT's Journal is the standard in the field.

The Journal is a professional publication and is the standard in the field. Its function is to serve as an open forum for the sharing and discussion of information, ideas, and theories, and for the publication of research. All materials presented herein represent the views and opinions of the individual authors and are not necessarily those of the Editors, Editorial Board and/or IARRT. Publication of an article herein does not represent an endorsement of its contents by them, collectively or individually.


Taken from: http://www.iarrt.org/journal.html

The whole organization ceased to exist in the end. I think this shows that its all woo:

IARRT stands for International Association for Regression Research & Therapies, Inc. Founded as APRT - Association for Past Life Research and Therapies - IARRT was a non-profit organization dedicated to increasing the acceptance and use of professional and responsible past-life regression through education, association and research. It was an international organization of professional, student, and supporting members across the United States, Canada and other countries world wide.

Past Life Regression Therapy is considered one of the most powerful tools available for transformation in the fields of integrative medicine, psychology and self awareness.

The effectiveness of past life recall created a demand for therapists skilled in regression techniques. In 1980, a group of more than 50 past life therapists convened to create the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies (later renamed the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies, Inc.). The association has become an internationally recognized organization with members holding conferences throughout the world.

IARRT closed its doors and ceased active operations in January, 2014.


Taken from: http://www.iarrt.org/about.html

16. Problem: The book was self-published. Hmm this shows even more problems:

This is one of the strongest reincarnation cases I know of. It was featured, as I understand, on "Unsolved Mysteries," and the author published an article about it, a condensed presentation of the book, in "The Journal of Regression Therapy," but the case has all but slipped into obscurity and the book is nearly impossible to find. It was self-published by hypnotherapist Rick Brown, who, according to my information, has since passed on.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

17. Problem: The author Rick Brown is a believer in reincarnation, karma etc.:

Finally, I must mention that the author, Rick Brown, took the opportunity when presenting this case to also educate the reader with his views on hypnosis, reincarnation, and karma.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

18. Problem: Even a believer in the story has some problems with it when reviewing the book:

Finally, I must mention that the author, Rick Brown, took the opportunity when presenting this case to also educate the reader with his views on hypnosis, reincarnation, and karma. I do not entirely agree with these presentations. I am not convinced that hypnosis is entirely without potential risks, nor that it is a completely natural and normal state, nor that all hypnosis is self-hypnosis, nor that it cannot be used to influence people in ways they should not be influenced. It is a therapeutic tool, and like all tools, it is subject to misuse. I have heard and read of cases where there were unwanted side-effects from poorly-administered hypnotic regression, including "bleed-through" from less-than-desirable emotions and traits of the previous personality into the present-day personality. It occurred in Bruce Kelly's case--while visiting the submarine he reverted to James Johnston's personality, even though he was not at that time under hypnosis, and for several hours afterwards he expressed more of Johnston's sarcasm and aggressiveness. In another case I know of first-hand, bleed-through feelings of severe depression lasted for several months, because an unskilled hypnotherapist panicked and brought the subject out of trance prematurely. I have also read that while it is true that the hypnotist cannot make the subject do something against their ethics and moral standards, it is nonetheless possible to gradually influence someone in a certain direction over time via suggestion; and I have heard a first-hand account, from a very credible source, of a post-hypnotic suggestion remaining buried in a man's subconscious, only to emerge on cue some ten or twenty years later. None of these types of concerns are addressed in the author's chapter on hypnosis.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

19. Problem: Another problem is that what is reincarnation because every religion has its own take on it like he reviewer claims about the Theosophy approach:

In addition, some portion of the presentation on reincarnation and karma does not entirely fit with my understanding of these subjects. For example, there is a theory, promulgated by Theosophy, I believe, that says that the reason we can't remember our past lives is because the physical personality dissolves at death and belongs only to that particular physical incarnation. According to my understanding, this is incorrect. The personality is found to be unchanged at death, except inasmuch as we naturally change when we are exposed over time to new circumstances and environments (some of this may be semantics). The reason we can't usually remember our past lives is because of a specific memory barrier or amnesia we take on when we incarnate; and because our awareness is now conforming to and utilizing a different physical brain. If the past-life personality "dissolved" at death, it could never be retrieved, as it often is, lock-stock-and-barrel, while in regression. Besides, most of one's current-life physical personality isn't even from this body. It's an amalgam of many previous personalities, stitched together from the most-relevant past lives that are brought forward for expression and resolution in this life (doesn't your significant other have an adventurous side and a cautious side, or a social side and an independent side?--all these are transplanted from previous incarnations, which is to say, we never really die--we've just been a lot of people). Similarly, the presentation of Eastern mysticism in the book is relatively advanced, but could be a bit more accurate. The term "Higher Self" is used loosely, for example, to mean any part of the person that is not the physical personality, where in actuality it is not quite that simple. The subtle body, which moves into physical bodies and out of them, is not the same as the Atman, which is the true Higher Self. The Atman is more like the movie-goer who sits in the chair and is the one experiencing the entire movie, including the parts of the movie where the subtle body takes on a new physical body or leaves one.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

20. Problem: Here is another problem with the chronology and also that Brown continued to research but Kelly didn’t:

I have to qualify that statement because, while it is stated in a general way that Bruce Kelly stopped researching his own case after verifying the first few facts, and thereafter only Rick Brown did the researching and did not share what he found, the research results are not laid out in a systematic way chronologically. So we don't have a precise chronology of when such-and-such a fact emerged under hypnosis, and when such-and-such a fact was verified historically by the author.


Taken from: Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

21. Problem: He was not always correct:

As I write this, I cannot think of a single fact that Bruce Kelly recalled that was proven to be incorrect historically, except that under hypnosis, Bruce Kelly was insistent that the cook's name was "Benny," which did not fit with the records, because, Rick Brown said, there was only one "Benny" aboard and he wasn't listed as a cook.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

22. Problem: We cannot 100 percent know that Johnston had a injury the day before:

Of course there is no proof of the injury; but it is known from the historical records that there was a depth-charge attack a few days before the attack that finally sunk the submarine. Reliving the injury sustained by the first attack cured Bruce Kelly of a long-time phantom pain in his chest, which went back to that past-life injury.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

23. Problem: Its not a science book even the reviewer who is a believer admits that:

I have to qualify that statement because, while it is stated in a general way that Bruce Kelly stopped researching his own case after verifying the first few facts, and thereafter only Rick Brown did the researching and did not share what he found, the research results are not laid out in a systematic way chronologically. So we don't have a precise chronology of when such-and-such a fact emerged under hypnosis, and when such-and-such a fact was verified historically by the author. For this reason it may not have been pure science, but many of the results nonetheless stand as strong evidence, because you can still piece enough of this chronology together from the narrative to yield a very strong case.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/brown.html

Here are some of the questions and answers to Bruce Kelly who replied about this:

The following are questions put to Bruce Kelly, subject of the book "James the Submarine Man" by Rick Brown, via e-mail, in January of 2007. These were Bruce's preliminary answers to the questions; I sent some followup questions, and he was to complete the answers to them, print it out, sign and have it notarized, and mail it to me.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

It can be found here: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

I found some nice information there:

23. Problem: Things were given in the first sessions that means it can be the 2nd session or the 3 one. Also it was confirmed by Bruce Kelly who went into the library to look it up:

I understand that it was in the second hypnotic session with Rick Brown that the Johnston life was discovered, and that soon after this session, you looked up information on the submarine in the library, finding the name, number, and crew roster including the commander. From the book, I see that in this second session, before you could have known this information by normal means, you got the name "James Johnston," the name and number of the submarine, "Shark SS-174", and the name of a crew-member in the compartment with you. That name isn't given in the description of that second session; however, the name "Robert Miller" is given in the description of a session that occurred about a month later (after you had already seen the roster in the library). Did you get the full name "Robert Miller" in that second session, before you had been to the library and had seen the roster?

As I recall, all names of ships, places and people were given during the first couple of sessions. Rick was concerned that natural curiosity might lead me to attempt to find information and asked that I not. In all honesty I wasn't that interested in the beginning and had no desire to locate information confirming or not confirming what I had seen and felt under hypnosis.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

24. Problem: Not everything is in the book:

Are there any other details that you got during that second session, including any not recorded in the book?

There could be other details that came out during all the sessions that Rick did not put in the book. Rick did audio tape all of the sessions. I would suspect that his son, Ray, might have those tapes.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

25. Problem: He had some prior knowledge and does not remember everything how it was:

I am especially interested in your having come up with the names "Tule Lake" and "Klamath Falls" under hypnosis. To your knowledge, had you ever seen any reference to these two places before the session in which they came up?

I probably had knowledge of Klamath Falls. I don't recall mentioning Klamath Falls. I do remember Tule Lake.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

26. Problem: His recollection has faults and this brings more questions to the story:

Another important element to this case is your knowing, under hypnosis, the exact location of the submarine when it was depth-charged. Before the session in which you named nearby Celebes Island, can you recall ever having seen a reference to Celebes Island, or had you ever seen a map or a picture of it? The book mentions that you drew a picture of Celebes Island "after the session". Was it immediately after, as soon as you came out of hypnosis, as part of that session with Rick Brown? If not, did you see a picture of Celebes Island before you drew the picture?

I don't believe I had ever heard of, or seen a map of Celebes Islands. I remember thinking it was the wrong name under hypnosis only because the name sounded strange to me. I don't think I ever voiced that to Rick. My memory is that I drew the picture either during or right after a session. I did not see a picture of it before I drew the picture.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

27. Problem: Again not everything is in the book:

Were any historical details about James' girlfriend Molly and her father ever verified? If so, please share whatever you feel comfortable sharing, and please indicate if you had any normal way of knowing that information before you described it under hypnosis.

I do believe Rick did verify information on both Molly and her father. Due to a close personal relationship that developed out of this episode I asked that Rick please leave much of that information out of the book. It didn't really play a part in the telling of the story.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

28. Problem: This is strange and they were even in a museum. Also another problem is that all is based on feelings:

Prior to visiting the museum submarine Pampanito in San Francisco, did you have any knowledge of the layout or workings of WWII submarines?

I believe by the time we visited the Pampanito I did have some knowledge based on the sessions and any material Rick might have received on the Shark. I do remember when first seeing the Pampanito feeling very sick. Rick seeing this, used hypnosis to relieve the anxiety I was feeling.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

29. Problem: Rick Brown the hypnotherapist was in the Air Force. This shows some information can be derived from there for this story:

There is a question in my mind as I read the book, of how much research results Rick shared with you during the period that the sessions were being conducted. On page 95, Rick says "Since I wasn't trying to use my findings to prove anything, I was open and honest with Bruce about all of the data I had gathered". However, in several places Rick indicates that he withheld research information to give you a chance to come up with it on your own, as with details about the inner workings of submarines. Please clarify, as specifically as possible, what research Rick shared with you, at what points in the process.

During the times of the initial sessions, when most of the information came out, there was little information for Rick to share with me. It sometimes took months for Rick to get information from the Navy Department. What information Rick might have shared early on I would guess was more from knowledge he might have had. As I recall Rick was in the Air Force, so he would have had knowledge regarding protocols, ranks, etc. The entire information from the initial sessions would have come from my memories under hypnosis:


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

30. Problem: Bruce Kelly was a believer and had a déjà vu as a kid which he interpreted as reincarnation later on:

Rick Brown mentions, in the book on page 60, that you had a deja vu experience as a child on Long Beach Boulevard in Long Beach, California. Please describe this incident in some detail, and also describe any other deja vu experiences you remember having as a child. If any of these were historically verfied, please include that information.

The experience in Long Beach was when I was very young (6-8 years old). I was in the car with my parents and I remember telling them I had been there before. Of course they responded, no dear you are mistaken. But to this day I remember feeling I knew this area. I, like many people, have had many times of feeling I've been here before or I've done this before. Through these sessions Rick and I discovered I am very sensitive to people, feelings, etc. More common for me is the feeling that some cosmic tumbler just fell into place and I have already seen this moment. This kind of fits into part of my believe system that we write the outline before entering this existence but still have the freedom to fill in the chapters.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

31. Problem: The doctors lifestyle leaves me skeptical because he could have done this for the money because when he truly believed in this he would live differently:

Please describe your impression of Rick Brown's personal and professional integrity (since this is usually a prime skeptical argument--when they can't debunk a case by any other means, they charge fraud).

Rick always demonstrated professional integrity with me. I observed him many times with groups and he always demonstrated a high level of professionalism. Personally, Rick was different. He was a large man, with a devilish twinkle in his eyes and a large appetite for the pleasures of this world (wine, women and food). I believe Rick believed these as the food of the gods. Some could question his lifestyle but Rick was neither a fraud professionally or personally. A quality I really liked about him.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

32. Problem: Bruce Kelly is a believer and not everything has changed. He cannot still swim:

How has this experience affected your life and your outlook on life?

Well I still don't know how to swim but at 54 I don't see the need. I am a Corporate Director and have flown hundreds of times over the last couple of years. I'm usually asleep by take-off. I hate the airport experience but flying does not bother me at all. Given a choice between an hour flight and a four-hour drive I always take the flight. I wish I could tell you this whole experience has made life and the spiritual journey easier but nothing is further from the truth. I should enjoy life more and have more fun. But I still easily get caught up in the moment-to-moment dramas of life and take it way more seriously than I should. Trying to make it all fit spiritually is difficult as well. I believe in a Divine Presence. Whether that's an almighty God or a God-like power that exists in all of us I don't know. I like to think the spirit lives on and I will see all my loved ones again and maybe we will keep doing this until we get it right.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

33. Problem: He was under hypnosis even during making that TV series:

Did you have any personal contact with James' family, and if so, did any confirmations or verifications come out of those encounters that you feel comfortable sharing?

My contact with the family and childhood friends of James came during the filming of Unsolved Mysteries. I think they got more out of it than I did because by then the sessions were long over and I had moved on. Unsolved Mysteries felt it better to recreate the scenes of me under hypnosis, etc. by using both Rick and me instead of actors. It was an interesting process to watch. They were in essence making a mini-movie. I think during the visit to Alabama because it was a TV Production I was more aware of hitting my marks than having feelings regarding the childhood hometown of James. The house he grew up in with his mother did bring back many feelings. Most of them sad.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kellyquestions.html

Here is how the sessions were conducted: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

34. Problem: The hypnotists is feeding information. We can see it here where he is asking where the submarine is:

Rick: Where are you?

Bruce: Manila.

Rick: Is there a submarine base in Manila?

Bruce: I suppose there is, that's where the operations headquarters are. [Cavite, in Manila Bay, was the headquarters of the Sixteenth Naval District. Manila Bay was the home of the Asiatic Fleet. Several submarine squadrons were permanently stationed there.]


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

35. Problem: Again feeding information as we can see that they graduated together as the hypnotist is asking:

Rick: Do you have a particular friend? A crew member, someone you spend your time with?

Bruce: I don't see anyone really close. There is another person that works with me in the escape changer. He had the same training that I did. He was with me through training.

Rick: Let his name come to you.

Bruce: Robert Miller. [Robert Francis Miller, Fireman Second Class, is listed as a crew member on Shark. Miller was born in Evansville, Indiana, May 24, 1918. Miller was 22 years old on the date of his death.]

Rick: Did you and Robert Miller come together from school?

Bruce: I think we graduated together. [In order for a man to be assigned to regular duty on a submarine in 1941, he had to have received training in the use of the Momsen Lung, an underwater breathing device used to escape from a disabled submarine. Both men were probably trained and certified to use Momsen Lungs in Pearl Harbor. They probably graduated together.]


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

36. Problem: He said Robert Miller which is a common name and not the whole name Robert Francis Miller:

Rick: Let his name come to you.

Bruce: Robert Miller. [Robert Francis Miller, Fireman Second Class, is listed as a crew member on Shark. Miller was born in Evansville, Indiana, May 24, 1918. Miller was 22 years old on the date of his death.]


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Here is just a small list of known people with the name Robert Miller. It is a very known name:

Sports[edit]
Bob Miller (1890s pitcher) (1868–1931), baseball pitcher in 1890–91
Bob Miller (1953–62 pitcher) (born 1935), baseball pitcher from 1953 to 1962
Bob Miller (1949–58 pitcher) (born 1926), pitcher for the Philadelphia Phillies from 1949 to 1958
Bob Miller (1957–74 pitcher) (Bob L. Miller, 1939–1993), right-handed pitcher from 1957 to 1974
Bob Miller (American football) (1929–2006), football tackle for the Detroit Lions
Bob Miller (ice hockey) (born 1956), NHL hockey player
Bob Miller (sports announcer) (born 1938), announcer for the Los Angeles Kings hockey team
Bob L. Miller (footballer) (born 1923), Australian rules footballer
Rob Miller (rugby union) (born 1989), rugby union player
Robert Miller (American football) (born 1953), former professional American football player
Rob Miller (footballer) (born 1980), English footballer
Government[edit]
Robert Miller (MP died 1624), MP for Bridport and Poole
Bob Miller (Nevada governor) (born 1945), governor of Nevada
Bob Miller (Australian politician) (born 1941), former Victorian state MP
Rob Miller (South Carolina politician) (born 1974), candidate for United States Congress
Robert A. Miller (born 1939), former Chief Justice of the South Dakota Supreme Court
Robert A. Miller (Oregon politician) (1854–1941), American politician in Oregon
Robert Byron Miller (1825–1902), English-born lawyer and politician in colonial Tasmania
Robert H. Miller (jurist) (1919–2009), former Chief Justice of the Kansas Supreme Court
Robert Hopkins Miller (born 1927), American diplomat
Robert Lowell Miller Jr. (born 1950), U.S. federal judge
Robert L. Miller (1927–2011), mayor of Campbellsville, Kentucky
Robert Thomas Miller (died 1962), mayor of Austin, Texas
Other[edit]
Robert Miller (art dealer) (1939–2011), American gallerist
Robert Miller (businessman) (born 1946), Canadian businessman who founded Future Electronics
Robert Talbott Miller (1910–1999), American who allegedly spied for the Soviet Union
Robert C. Miller (1920–1998), American meteorologist and USAF officer, pioneered tornado forecasting
Robert Ellis Miller (born 1932), American film director
Robert H. Miller (born 1947), American surgeon
Robert M. Miller (born 1927), equine behaviorist and veterinarian
Robert Warren Miller (born 1933), entrepreneur and developer of duty-free shopping
Ben Lexcen (Robert Miller, 1936–1988), Australian yacht designer
Robert James Miller (1983–2008), United States Army Special Forces soldier and Medal of Honor recipient
Robert Rush Miller (1916–2003), American ichthyologist
Robert Miller (bishop) (1866–1931), Church of Ireland bishop
Robert Edmond Miller (born 1947), Jamaican diplomat
Steve Miller (business) (Robert Steven Miller, Jr.), American chief executive
Robert Miller (pianist) (1930–1981), American pianist and attorney


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Miller

37. Problem: Again feeding information and there is another problem that he named not all of them.

Rick: Are you accompanied by other ships or other submarines in your operations?

Bruce: Yeah, sometimes.

Rick: What are the ships that accompany you?

Bruce: I think there is Porpoise, maybe Spearfish, not all submarines have names. I get numbers, I think we may have been sent there with other submarines that are like 37 and 38. [Submarines 37 and 38 were Asiatic Fleet Boats on station in Manila Bay with Porpoise and Spearfish].


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

38. Problem: It is not so strong also because he is not sure and he names things that are on a sea this takes only logic to deduce this Spearfish is in the sea and Porpoise also. He just states animals of the sea which in coincidence hit:

Rick: Are you accompanied by other ships or other submarines in your operations?

Bruce: Yeah, sometimes.

Rick: What are the ships that accompany you?

Bruce: I think there is Porpoise, maybe Spearfish, not all submarines have names. I get numbers, I think we may have been sent there with other submarines that are like 37 and 38. [Submarines 37 and 38 were Asiatic Fleet Boats on station in Manila Bay with Porpoise and Spearfish].


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Example of Porpoise:

Porpoises (/ˈpɔrpəs/; also called mereswine) are small cetaceans of the family Phocoenidae; they are related to whales and dolphins. They are distinct from dolphins, although the word "porpoise" has been used to refer to any small dolphin, especially by sailors and fishermen. The most obvious visible difference between the two groups is that porpoises have shorter beaks and flattened, spade-shaped teeth distinct from the conical teeth of dolphins.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porpoise

39. Problem: He said only shark a known creature living in the sea. Also it is known that people name their submarines according to animals of the sea so he only needed to say this and it was a hit:

Rick: Does your submarine have a number?

Bruce: Not that we are referred to as, we're just referred to as Shark.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

40. Problem: This is a typical reaction to Pearl Harbor which was in all movies in that era:

Rick: We are going forward in time now until after you are aware that Pearl Harbor has been attacked and after war has been declared. Is that OK with you?

Bruce: Yes. [A time focusing process].

Rick: What do you feel?

Rick: We are mad. We are so mad, that the Japanese would do this to us. We are also a little afraid because we know we are in danger.

Rick: Is there a feeling of closeness in the crew?

Bruce: More than there was before. Yes, now we realize that we have to depend on the other person for our life.

Rick: So now there is a unity?

Bruce: Yes, more than before.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

41. Problem: Again Miller:

Rick: Do you have a close friend, a close person you can share your thoughts with?

Bruce: No. Not really. I work with Robert Miller, but he is not a friend. [James has been described by a boyhood friend as a happy but lonely child. Bruce consistently reports James' loneliness].


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

42. Problem: Again feeding information because Rick said it’s the morning of the loss of the Shark:

Rick: What is the date?

Bruce: I believe it's February eleventh. [1942]

Rick: Okay, let's continue on with the morning of the eleventh. This is the morning of the loss of the Shark. Is that correct?

Bruce: Yes.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

43. Problem: In later regression it was confined? Wow one regression this and one is happening something else?:

Rick: What is that duty?

Bruce: It involves the compartment, the escape hatches. It's a compartment by the torpedo room. [One of the roles of a past-life regressionist is to be a psycho-detective. The subject perceives many more sights, sounds and feelings than the regressionist is aware of and the subject may not report those perceptions. The subject is not intentionally withholding the information, but is focused on other things. The regressionist must recognize a clue or a significant bit of information as it comes from the subject. That is not easy to do and often times is not possible. In this case, I completely missed the clue about "just relaxing". In later regressions, it was determined that James was confined to his bunk with rib injuries received in a depth charge attack on February 8, 1942].


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

44. Problem: Robert Miller again:

Rick: Do you have another man you work with?

Bruce: Yes, Robert Miller.

Rick: Is he standing watch now?

Bruce: Yes.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

45. Problem: He said only that they have submerged the later info is added by the author where it seems he wants to believe:

Rick: Why is the submarine submerged now?

Bruce: Because it's daytime hours and our mission is reconnaissance and Japanese ships have been reported in the area. [Shark was on her second and last war patrol. On February 7, 1942, Lt. Commander Shane reported the presence of a Japanese cargo ship. On February 8, Shark was told by radio from Surabaya to proceed to Makassar via the Northern coast of Celebes].


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

46. Problem: Feeding information again because he can say yes or no it’s a 50/50 chance:

Rick: Morning or evening?

Bruce: Morning.

Rick: Is it a single destroyer?

Bruce: I don't think so. I think there are more, but I'm not sure.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

47. Problem: Again feeding information and the questions are leading where the hypnotherapist wants:

Rick: What is the nature of the attack?

Bruce: It's a depth charge, and it happens in a hurry. I haven't gotten to my post yet. I have just gotten out of the crew quarters and we're hit. I am in a long hallway and trying to get to my post and we are hit. Pretty severely, the ship is really shaking and rolling and momentarily goes black.

Rick: Are you uncomfortable? [My question was to Bruce who was showing discomfort and anxiety. James answered.]

Bruce: I am scared. I was knocked off of my feet by the impact and I am trying to scramble to my feet in the dark and find my way. I guess to find my way to my post. I am scared and confused. I guess that's where I want to go.

Rick: Do the lights come back on?

Bruce: Yes, momentarily. I have gotten to my feet and I am just getting to a hatch and I'm going through the hatch when we are hit again and the lights go out again. This one was a lot more severe. This one is a direct hit. No doubt that this is a direct hit and I am knocked off my feet again.

Rick: Must have been a very severe hit.

Bruce: There's water in the compartment. The ship is flooding. It's flooding fast. The last hit definitely ripped a big hole in it. I get the impression it was close to where I was, maybe back close to the midsection, behind the conning tower. That's where it took the hit.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

48. Problem: Feeding information:

Rick: And so water is rushing in very fast?

Bruce: Very fast.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

49. Problem: Again feeding information because he is asking if someone is there:

Rick: Is there anyone nearby?

Bruce: Walter Pilgram.

Bruce: He is older than I am.

Rick: Considerably older?

Bruce: Maybe mid-thirties. He's someone I haven't been close to on the ship. Just know of him. I know him by name. [Pilgram was born December 21, 1909. He was 31 years old on the date of his death.]


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

50. Problem: Walter Pilgram has died when he was 33 and he did not say his full name:

Rick: Is there anyone nearby?

Bruce: Walter Pilgram.

Bruce: He is older than I am.

Rick: Considerably older?

Bruce: Maybe mid-thirties. He's someone I haven't been close to on the ship. Just know of him. I know him by name. [Pilgram was born December 21, 1909. He was 31 years old on the date of his death.]


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Here is the info on Walter Pilgram and even there they cannot make the full name of it:

Walter Edward Pilgram
Rank/Rate Chief Electrician's Mate
Service Number 380 65 71
Birth Date December 21, 1909
From Los Angeles, California
Decorations Purple Heart
Submarine USS Shark (SS-174)
Loss Date February 11, 1942
Location East of Menado, Celebes
Circumstances Probably sunk by depth charge attack
Remarks Walter was born in Newport, Kentucky.
Some sources list his middle name as Everett.


Taken from: http://www.oneternalpatrol.com/pilgram-w-e.htm

51. Problem: The name Pilgram is known and very ancient:

Rick: Is there anyone nearby?

Bruce: Walter Pilgram.

Bruce: He is older than I am.

Rick: Considerably older?

Bruce: Maybe mid-thirties. He's someone I haven't been close to on the ship. Just know of him. I know him by name. [Pilgram was born December 21, 1909. He was 31 years old on the date of his death.]


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Here is a example:

Anton Pilgram (also Anton Pilchramb) (around 1460, Brno (?) – 1516, Vienna) was a late medieval Austrian (German) architect and sculptor active in the area of today's Czech Republic, Austria and western Germany. Pilgram is known as the sculptor of the portal of Old City Hall in Brno and craftsman of the pulpit in St. Stephen's Cathedral, Vienna. He spent a major part of his life in Brno, Moravia.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Pilgram

Or here:

Janez Jurij Pilgram was a politician of the 18th century in Slovenia, when the country was under the Holy Roman Empire. He became mayor of Ljubljana in 1772.[1] He was succeeded by Janez Nepomuk Mikolitsch in 1774.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janez_Jurij_Pilgram
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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:57 pm

52. Problem: Again this is not clear. Why when someone is reincarnated does not know things precisely?:

Rick: What does he do on the ship?

Bruce: A mechanic or an engineer. [Walter Pilgram was a Chief Electrician's Mate].


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

53. Problem: Rick again shows he is a believer:

Rick: I'm going to count from five to one. When I reach the number one, your spirit will have rejoined your body and the time will be early in the morning of February 11th. Long before the attack, long before any problems. A time when you were very relaxed and calm and very much at ease. Five, back to being in the body, being a part of the body, the spirit and the body are together. Four. Going back to the time and the place and to the morning when you were in your quarters, relaxing. There, you are ... [I terminated the hypnotic trance and brought Bruce into full physical and mental awareness.]


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

54. Problem: In the end we have no real proof:

Extensive research indicates that Bruce Kelly's memories of James Edward Johnston's life and death are accurate. Still, there is no proof, only converging lines of evidence suggesting Bruce Kelly is the reincarnation of James.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

55. Problem: Self-help books? Wow Rick is a almost like a New Age seller:

Rick Brown is a graduate of the Hypnotism Training Institute of Los Angeles and a Certified Hypnotherapist in full-time private practice in Glendora, California since 1987. He specializes in Stress Management and Stop Smoking seminars, as well as in the development of self-help audio cassettes. His background also includes a career in engineering and he holds many U.S. and foreign patents.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

56. Problem: This Hypnotism Training Institute of Los Angeles leaves me skeptical:

Rick Brown is a graduate of the Hypnotism Training Institute of Los Angeles and a Certified Hypnotherapist in full-time private practice in Glendora, California since 1987. He specializes in Stress Management and Stop Smoking seminars, as well as in the development of self-help audio cassettes. His background also includes a career in engineering and he holds many U.S. and foreign patents.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

I found this info about it:

Gil Boyne (October 28, 1924 - May 5, 2010) was an American pioneer in modern hypnotherapy who focused on training thousands of "lay" hypnotherapists primarily in Glendale, CA as well as throughout the world. He championed the accessibility of hypnotherapy and consistently fought against legislative efforts worldwide to restrict hypnosis to the purely medical professions, which had largely ignored the therapeutic value of hypnosis until Boyne, Milton Erickson, and Dave Elman. Boyne was mentored by Ormond McGill, with whom he collaborated for the 1977 book "Professional Stage Hypnotism". Over the course of more than 55 years he trained thousands of hypnotherapists globally with his Transforming Therapy™ methods, many of whom themselves wrote many books and created their own hypnotherapy training centers including Randal Churchill (Hypnotherapy Training Institute) and Charles Tebbetts.


Early Life and Career[edit]

Boyne was born in Philadelphia, PA, USA in 1924 to a deeply religious Irish American family. His early schooling was religiously focused which impacted his spiritual beliefs throughout his life.[2]

He served in the Navy in the Pacific theatre during World War II, after which he was assigned to a therapeutic program based on psychoanalysis. The program was largely ineffective, and his frustration with the approach, his spiritual and religious upbringing, and experience as a stage hypnotist led him to develop the transformative approach using hypnosis. Contemporary influences included Dave Elman, Milton Erickson, Fritz Perls' Gestalt Therapy and Carl Rogers' "unconditional positive regard".
Hypnotism Training Institute[edit]

Gil founded and was the director of the Hypnotism Training Institute in Glendale, CA. In 1976, it became the first licensed Hypnotherapy training center in the United States offering up to 250 hours of training, including a diploma-offering curriculum in professional hypnotherapy.[3]

Transforming Therapy™[edit]

With his background and experiences and with influences by his contemporaries mentioned above, Boyne developed the first program designed to train hypnotherapists in a regression-based approach. The resulting program, Transforming Therapy™, was used for decades to train over 12,000 and possibly as many as 15,000 hypnotherapists globally.[2][4][5] The Transforming Therapy™ method incorporated aspects of Regression Therapy and Gestalt Therapy as well as focusing on the self-healing power of the subconscious mind. It uses a compassionate spiritual approach that simplifies theory in the actual therapy and hones in on allowing the inner mind to construct its own solutions creatively.[6] The approach is generally considered to be rapidly effective[3].

Boyne continued to train hypnotherapists for over 55 years,[1] continuing to evolve many novel techniques in the field and imparting them to his students.

Boyne founded Westwood Publishing, one of the first publishers to focus on hypnotherapy-focused publications.[7]

Boyne also founded the American Council of Hypnotist Examiners in 1980.[8]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Boyne

Gil Boyne was there a director:

Professional Positions[edit]
Director, Hypnotism Training Institute of Los Angeles
Founder and CEO, Westwood Publishing Company
Founder and Director, Hypnotherapy Counseling Center


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Boyne

57. Problem: It was in The Journal of Regression Therapy:

Reproduced from The Journal of Regression Therapy, Vol. V, No. 1, December, 1991, the journal of the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies. Copyright IARRT, permission to reprint requested. If IARRT or the author has any objections, please e-mail the webmaster of this website.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

They closed their doors:

IARRT stands for International Association for Regression Research & Therapies, Inc. Founded as APRT - Association for Past Life Research and Therapies - IARRT was a non-profit organization dedicated to increasing the acceptance and use of professional and responsible past-life regression through education, association and research. It was an international organization of professional, student, and supporting members across the United States, Canada and other countries world wide.

Past Life Regression Therapy is considered one of the most powerful tools available for transformation in the fields of integrative medicine, psychology and self awareness.

The effectiveness of past life recall created a demand for therapists skilled in regression techniques. In 1980, a group of more than 50 past life therapists convened to create the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies (later renamed the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies, Inc.). The association has become an internationally recognized organization with members holding conferences throughout the world.

IARRT closed its doors and ceased active operations in January, 2014.


Taken from: http://www.iarrt.org/about.html

58. Problem: There is some chance of fraud:

This article was published in 1991, and thus the sessions took place somewhat earlier, before the internet was in common usage. It is technically possible that the subject, having a prior interest in metaphysics (hence the reason for the initial contact with the therapist, to ask questions about metaphysics), wanted to perpetrate a hoax. He could conceivably have researched all this information beforehand, and pretended to divulge it under hypnosis. While this can't be discounted as a possibility, it seems very unlikely.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

59. Problem: The only evidence we have is from those two people like the diary of Kelly and Brown:

6/20/06: I am now reading the full version of the account in book form. In the book, author/therapist Rick Brown reproduces Bruce Kelly's diary verbatim, including his decision to be hypnotized and his meeting with the therapist. It is clear from this account that there is no fraud on the part of Mr. Kelly (interestingly, he was a "born again" Christian when he began his search).


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Edit: Found two more problems:

Problem: Its interesting that in the pdf he said the full name but he can not said the full name of others:

Brown hypnotized Kelly and asked him ”to recall the time and place where he was first affected by the terror.” The entranced Kelly responded, “I’m in a submarine…I’m dying.”2 His name, he said was James Edward Johnston.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rfaces.pdf
Page: 1

Like we see here:

Rick: Let his name come to you.

Bruce: Robert Miller. [Robert Francis Miller, Fireman Second Class, is listed as a crew member on Shark. Miller was born in Evansville, Indiana, May 24, 1918. Miller was 22 years old on the date of his death.]


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Or here:

Rick: Is there anyone nearby?

Bruce: Walter Pilgram.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Problem: Rick Brown told him about reincarnation even in the first beginnings and told him that could answer his metaphysical questions thanks to reincarnation. This sounds more like a bias and that they both were believers in the beginning:

Those who would challenge the validity of PLT (past life therapy) often point to the lack of information which can be empirically validated. Their cry is, "Give us data! Give us names, dates, places!" For this reason, this contribution, in which a careful and methodical follow-up was conducted to validate the data obtained during the regression, is an important study. We would be interested in hearing from other PLT practitioners who have done similar studies and validations.

On February 11, 1942, the U.S. Submarine Shark, on which James Edward Johnston was a crew member, was depth charged and sunk by the Japanese Destroyer Amatsukaze. All hands including James drowned. The spirit that occupied the body of James appears to have reincarnated again on January 19, 1953 in the body of Bruce Kelly.

In hypnosis, Kelly has a clear and vivid recall of a past life as James. Past life regressionists rarely have the opportunity to research data presented by a client, but James Johnston lived so recently that many of the memories recalled by Bruce Kelly have been authenticated.

Documents from the Civilian Conservation Corps, the United States Navy, and civilian records such as birth certificate and high school attendance records verify the life of James. In addition, several of James' friends and relatives are still alive and have substantiated information recalled by Bruce Kelly while in hypnosis.

I am a Certified Hypnotherapist, experienced in past life regression. Bruce phoned me initially to ask if I would answer some metaphysical questions. We discussed reincarnation and what effect it might have in his current life. I told him that regression into past lives is easy to accomplish and that anyone can do it.

Our first meeting was on November 17, 1987, at the Covina Counseling Center in Glendora, California. During that session, I went through the normal preliminaries, explaining to him what hypnosis is, how it works, and why people are able to use hypnosis for past life regressions.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Its here in black:

I am a Certified Hypnotherapist, experienced in past life regression. Bruce phoned me initially to ask if I would answer some metaphysical questions. We discussed reincarnation and what effect it might have in his current life. I told him that regression into past lives is easy to accomplish and that anyone can do it.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/james.html

Conclusion of part 10: This case was promising but after seeing more information about it. It shows that it does not hold water. There are inconsistent things and the dialogues are beginning of feeding information. The people who were identified leaves room for interpretation because he said not the whole names and the names he mentioned are very common. All was published in a strange journal and in a self-published book. All we have is a story which could have been looked up. The submarine was very well known. Also if reincarnation is taking place why do those who claim are reincarnated lead us to some hidden treasure or something like that. Why their answers are vague and give no real proof. There are too many problems with this case to be considered a proof of reincarnation however I must admit that this case was interesting and it left me doubtful if there is not something to reincarnation but after looking into more depth it became crystal clear that there is no such thing. The answers are weak and the hypnotherapist is feeding information to the subject. So I am not going further into this. I showed the errors in this case and problems. For me this case does NOT proof reincarnation and even does NOT hint reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

Note2: I made a grammar mistake here:

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences in the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

I wanted to tell this not that one. Sorry English is not my first language:

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

If you don’t believe me check it for yourself therefore I post the link there under the text.
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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:33 pm

Part 11: Family Lost and Found

Here is the new case:

1993 Family Lost and Found [ID#61] 270 Cockell


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf

1. Problem: This whole tale smells like Hollywood with some reincarnation and on top:

Tis and oft-told tale, both sad and inspiring: a woman driven by guilt and worry strives to locate the family she was forced to abandon years before. There’s a most uncommon twist to the tale Jenny Cockell tells, however for when she finally finds her lost children, they are all several decades older then their mother. From a very young, age Jenny Cockell (pronounced ki-Kell) was plagued by unexplained dreams and visions in which she was a woman named Mary.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: Jenny Cockell is a New Age writer:

Jenny Cockell (born in 1953) is an English author who in the mid-1990s came to fame for her book about reincarnation called Across Time and Death: A Mother's Search for her Past Life Children (ISBN 0-671-88986-9). In the book, Cockell discusses her "past life memories" of life as Mary Sutton in early-20th century Ireland. The book chronicles Cockell's research into Sutton's life and Cockell's subsequent "reunion" with Sutton's children, some whom accept Cockell as the reincarnation of their mother.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

Here is that she is a New Age writer:

Categories: Living people
New Age writers
Reincarnation
1953 births
English writer stubs


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

3. Problem: She is a hard believer:

Jenny Cockell (born in 1953) is an English author who in the mid-1990s came to fame for her book about reincarnation called Across Time and Death: A Mother's Search for her Past Life Children (ISBN 0-671-88986-9). In the book, Cockell discusses her "past life memories" of life as Mary Sutton in early-20th century Ireland. The book chronicles Cockell's research into Sutton's life and Cockell's subsequent "reunion" with Sutton's children, some whom accept Cockell as the reincarnation of their mother.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

More info:

Cockell is also the author of Past Lives, Future Lives (ISBN 0-684-83216-X), in which she discussed her visions of what she believes will be her future lives, among these a girl, Nadja in Nepal around


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

4. Problem: She is making a living out of it because it was adapted into a movie. I bet this is the reason she wrote it because if her beliefs are true then she would not desire money for it because there is karma you know and good deeds:

Jenny Cockell (born in 1953) is an English author who in the mid-1990s came to fame for her book about reincarnation called Across Time and Death: A Mother's Search for her Past Life Children (ISBN 0-671-88986-9). In the book, Cockell discusses her "past life memories" of life as Mary Sutton in early-20th century Ireland. The book chronicles Cockell's research into Sutton's life and Cockell's subsequent "reunion" with Sutton's children, some whom accept Cockell as the reincarnation of their mother.

In 2000, CBS aired Yesterday's Children, which was a made-for-TV movie adaptation of Cockell's book, with Jane Seymour in the title role. For the TV movie, however, Jenny Cockell was referred to as "Jenny Cole," and the story was slightly rewritten with Jenny Cole being an American as opposed to British citizen.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

5. Problem: She is a writer here are her publications:

Publications[edit]
Yesterday’s Children: The Extraordinary Search for my Past Life Family, Piatkus, 1993
Across Time and Death: A Mother's Search for Her Past Life Children, Piatkus, 1994
Past Lives, Future Lives: One Woman's Extraordinary Experiences of Other Lifetimes, Piatkus, 1996
Journeys Through Time: Uncovering My Past Lives, Piatkus, 2008


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell

6. Problem: I sincerely doubt she dreamed every night about such things. This whole sounds like a romantic tale more and more:

She seemed to be reliving Mary’s life or, more often re-dying Mary’s death. Night after night, Jenny’s dream dreams were filled with the panic of a 30-something woman lying in a hospital bed, racked with pain yet suffering even more from the thought of dying and forsaking her children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

7. Problem: She had even visions during the day. Wow she should have seen some psychiatrist:

During the day, Cockell’s visions were of more pleasant times with the woman’s numerous children – she could envision at at least seven of them, but she felt that there may have been more.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

8. Problem: She felt there is more? Wow why again is everyone working with their guts and not head. Why people are you so foolish if people were using more their brains and not guts we would not have the financial crisis as we now do or less people would get divorced:

During the day, Cockell’s visions were of more pleasant times with the woman’s numerous children – she could envision at at least seven of them, but she felt that there may have been more.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

9. Problem: She somehow knew it was in Ireland. Wow another gut feeling and she again had visions which were like memories to her. Wow I am speechless. This sounds like a fairy tale made by a child:

In addition to Mary’s children and her final hours, the young Cockell had visions(which seemed like memories to her) of a home and village that, although she had never traveled outside England, she somehow knew were located in Ireland.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

10. Problem: So yeah it’s a child fantasy because she began to do this when she was a child and envisioned herself as a reincarnation and again felt there are two brothers:

As a child, she often drew maps of this village and described her home as a two-room cottage, sitting first on the left of a country lane and turned sideways to it. She envisioned where the cottages windows were and what pictures hung on the interior walls. She felt that Mary had two older brothers who had gone away from the area. Altogether, Jenny Cockell had memories involving scores of minutia about a place far away and a life that ended some 21 years before she was born.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

11. Problem: She at school found the town in a map. So again she could just make it up because she did not have visions or memories of the town but found it in a map as a child:

At school, Cockell studied a map of Ireland and felt drawn to the town of Malahide about 10 miles north of Dublin. She longed to travel there and confirm her visions, but it was not until she was 33 years of age and a married mother with two children of her own that she managed get the money, the time, and the confidence to make the trip. Once she discovered that her inner-knowledge of the town did actually match quite well with current reality, Cockell was emboldened to begin a determined quest to locate and contact Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

12. Problem: She traveled there when she was 33 years old. She could have learned all this knowledge before and then go there:

At school, Cockell studied a map of Ireland and felt drawn to the town of Malahide about 10 miles north of Dublin. She longed to travel there and confirm her visions, but it was not until she was 33 years of age and a married mother with two children of her own that she managed get the money, the time, and the confidence to make the trip. Once she discovered that her inner-knowledge of the town did actually match quite well with current reality, Cockell was emboldened to begin a determined quest to locate and contact Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

13. Problem: Malahide is a know city. Why does everyone choose a known city who claims is reincarnated?:

At school, Cockell studied a map of Ireland and felt drawn to the town of Malahide about 10 miles north of Dublin. She longed to travel there and confirm her visions, but it was not until she was 33 years of age and a married mother with two children of her own that she managed get the money, the time, and the confidence to make the trip. Once she discovered that her inner-knowledge of the town did actually match quite well with current reality, Cockell was emboldened to begin a determined quest to locate and contact Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the info:

Malahide (Irish: Mullach Íde) is a coastal suburban town near Dublin city it is administered by Fingal County Council commonly described as County Dublin, Ireland. There are extensive residential areas to the south, west and northwest of the village.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malahide

More info:

History[edit][show]
Historical population


While there are some remnants of prehistoric activity, Malahide is known to have become a persistent settlement from the coming of the Vikings, who landed in 795, and used Malahide Estuary (along with Baldoyle) as a convenient base. With the arrival of the Anglo-Normans, the last Danish King of Dublin retired to the area in 1171. From the 1180s, the history of the area is tied to that of the Talbot family of Malahide Castle, who were granted extensive lands in the area and over the centuries following developed their estate, and the small harbour settlement.


There is an ancient covered well, St. Sylvester's, on the old main street (Old Street, previously Chapel Street), which used to have a "pattern" to Our Lady each August 15.

In 1475 Thomas Talbot, head of the Talbot family of Malahide Castle, was granted the title Admiral of the port of Malahide by King Edward IV, with power to hold admiralty courts and levy customs duties on all merchandise coming into the port. The office was to be hereditary.[5]

By the early 19th century, the village had a population of over 1000, and a number of local industries, including salt harvesting, while the harbour continued in commercial operation, with landings of coal and construction materials. By 1831, the population had reached 1223. The area grew in popularity in Georgian times as a seaside resort for wealthy Dublin city dwellers. This is still evident today from the fine collection of Georgian houses in the town and along the seafront, and Malahide is still a popular spot for day-trippers, especially in the summer months.

In the 1960s, developers began to build housing estates around the village core of Malahide, launching the first, Ard na Mara in 1964. Further estates followed, to the northwest, south and west, but the village core remained intact, with the addition of a "marina apartment complex" development adjacent to the village green.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malahide#History

14. Problem: She looked everywhere to find the family. So its also plausible she could have been looking for information about the city itself:

She scoured libraries, spoke with priests, wrote letters to historical societies and orphanages, placed newspaper ads, underwent hypnosis, and even made calls to names found in Irelands phone books. Her search went into high gear when she located a man who had lived in Malahide as a youth. He had gone to school, he said with some children whose mothers name was Mary and who had lived with a large number of siblings in a two-room cottage that sat sideways, first on the left from the start of Swords lane.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

15. Problem: She could not recall the surname but this is strange in one case above(the submarine soldier reincarnation case) the person was able to recall the surname:

The family’s last name, he said, was Sutton. This surname, which Cockell had never been able to recall, was the key that enabled her to locate, contact, meet, and ultimately befriend five of Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

15. Problem: She first claimed there were at least seven children and now she found only 5? The problem is we do not know the precise number:

During the day, Cockell’s visions were of more pleasant times with the woman’s numerous children – she could envision at at least seven of them, but she felt that there may have been more.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the number of children:

The family’s last name, he said, was Sutton. This surname, which Cockell had never been able to recall, was the key that enabled her to locate, contact, meet, and ultimately befriend five of Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 1

16. Problem: I smell the reason for this and the cooperation of others. She did not only sell her story to make a book and a movie. She also appeared in many shows:

Also, she has appeared, either along or with Mary’s 60- and 70-something children, on several televised programs including, in the U.S., 20/20 with Barbara Walters, Donahue, Sightings and the The Unexplained.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 2

17. Problem: The criticism of Joe Nickells work is pathetic:

Just to take one example, an article in the Skeptical Inquirer says, in part: She turned then to actual research, publishing an ad in a Mensa magazine, sending out numerous form letters, acquiring maps, and so on. Eventually she turned up a village (Malahide), a road (Swords Road), and finally a woman named Mary Sutton who roughly fit the target…. Unfortunately, Cockell’s intriguing and no doubt sincere saga does not withstand critical analysis. First, consider the overwhelming lack of factual information provided by the dreams and hypnosis. Unknown were Mary’s surname, either maiden or married, or the names of her husband or children. Similarly, the village’s name and even its location were a mystery.”

Apparently, this critic had not taken the trouble to actually read the book he is denigrating, for it clearly states that Cockell, while she was still a young girl, had selected the town of Malahide using a map of Ireland in her school atlas. A map that was far too small of scale to allow any matching with the sketches she had made. So, the village was not ”turned up” as part of her adult research and neither its name nor its location “were a mystery”. Furthermore, while its true that every name could not be recalled, this critic manages to avoid mentioning the many “unknowable” details that Cockell did know about the children and the events in the family’s life. The eldest boy was in his seventies when he stated on record that she knew things about his childhood that even his brothers and sisters did not know.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 2

1. The skeptic/ critic did make the time to read the book as we can see here:

Therein, as a self-described “withdrawn and nervous child,” she relates how she frequently woke sobbing with her “memories of Mary’s death” and her expressed “fear for the children I was leaving behind” (p. 1). In addition to her childhood dreams, she would frequently echo Mary’s domestic work during her play: making “bread” by mixing grass seeds in water, sweeping with a broom, and acting out other chores (p. 14). “I was also constantly tidying and clearing out my room and toys,” she writes, “something that I enjoyed almost more than playing with them” (p. 5). At this time, she did not know Mary’s last name and was unaware of countless other details about her origins and life. Somewhat artistically inclined, Jenny frequently sketched maps of Mary’s Irish village, although there were admitted variations in the supposed landmarks (p. 5).


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

Or here:

Among the reasons for Jenny’s withdrawal was the unhappy atmosphere of her home, there being, as she described it, “an impossible tension” between her parents (p. 14). “I usually played alone,” she writes, “and the only company I regularly enjoyed was that of my two imaginary male friends” (p. 15). Although she had a high IQ (which would later earn her membership in Mensa, the “genius” society), she reports that she was thought a slow learner due to her “dreamlike state of mind” that carried even into the classroom (p. 15).


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

Or here:

Although she describes her supposed memories as “dreams” and refers to her “private trance world” in which she was “oblivious to external activity,” the memories were vivid and seemingly real. As is often the case, this was especially so under hypnosis. In 1988 — by then married and the mother of two young children — Cockell was hypnotized for the first time. Under hypnosis, she seemingly became Mary. “I cried as she cried,” she states; “I knew her pain as my own” (p. 33).


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

Or here. Nickell is even using it in his sources:

References
Baker, Robert A. 1992. Hidden Memories: Voices and Visions from Within. Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books.
Cockell, Jenny. 1993. Across Time and Death: A Mother’s Search for Her Past Life Children. New York: Simon and Schuster.
Wilson, Sheryl C., and Theodore X. Barber. 1983. “The fantasy-prone personality” in Imagery, Current Theory, Research and Application, ed. Anees A. Sheikh, New York: Wiley, pp. 340-390.


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

2. Problem: This claim is dubious and even a rational person will laugh at it. She chosen the town in a atlas book in school because she loved the name as a child and incorporated it into her beliefs:

Apparently, this critic had not taken the trouble to actually read the book he is denigrating, for it clearly states that Cockell, while she was still a young girl, had selected the town of Malahide using a map of Ireland in her school atlas. A map that was far too small of scale to allow any matching with the sketches she had made.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 2

According to the skeptic/critic she had a bad childhood and therefore created this fantasy:

Among the reasons for Jenny’s withdrawal was the unhappy atmosphere of her home, there being, as she described it, “an impossible tension” between her parents (p. 14). “I usually played alone,” she writes, “and the only company I regularly enjoyed was that of my two imaginary male friends” (p. 15). Although she had a high IQ (which would later earn her membership in Mensa, the “genius” society), she reports that she was thought a slow learner due to her “dreamlike state of mind” that carried even into the classroom (p. 15).


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

3. Problem: He stated at record but where on a TV show which wanted to sell?:

The eldest boy was in his seventies when he stated on record that she knew things about his childhood that even his brothers and sisters did not know.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf
Page: 2

4. Problem: The author of the pdf does not debunk everything. He does not contradict other stuff what Nickell wrote here:

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

Like this one:

Although she describes her supposed memories as “dreams” and refers to her “private trance world” in which she was “oblivious to external activity,” the memories were vivid and seemingly real. As is often the case, this was especially so under hypnosis. In 1988 — by then married and the mother of two young children — Cockell was hypnotized for the first time. Under hypnosis, she seemingly became Mary. “I cried as she cried,” she states; “I knew her pain as my own” (p. 33). Tears rolled uncontrollably down her cheeks. Although under hypnosis she seemed to exist partly in the past and partly the present, she says: “Yet I was Mary, and the past had become very real. I could smell the grass on the slopes outside a large farmhouse, and I breathed in the fresh spring air” (p. 36). Again, “As the questions were being asked and answered in this strange, mechanical way, I seemed to be free to wander through the places I saw — tangible, vivid places. I felt the wind in my hair; I could touch and smell the air as though I were there” (p. 37).

Under hypnosis she also explored what she believed were her “psychic abilities.” In addition to her past-life memories, she was already convinced she had the power of psychometry (object reading) and dream premonitions (pp. 13, 28). The hypnotic sessions also took her on an out-of-body experience as part of a dubious test of clairvoyance. (Also, in an earlier session, as “Mary,” she had died, then went out of body to see the surroundings of her “now vacant body” [pp. 40, 55].)


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

Now lets continue with my criticism on this case:

18. Problem: I found this very interesting in the book itself. This shows that there can be memories from childhood at play as Nickell wrote and I think the same even before reading his stuff:

When Mary died, I felt that there was one younger child and that there were seven or eight of them in all, but I was not confident about the details. I seem, for some reason, to have remembered one blonde child particularly, for my favorite childhood doll had slightly curly, sandy blonde hair. She had an ingenious mechanism which enabled her eyes to change colour, but I always kept them at blue. Essentially a baby doll, she has remained in my possession, dressed in baby clothes, to this day.


Taken form: http://www.amazon.com/Across-Time-And-D ... 0671889869
Page: 3

18. Problem: The only person who reviewed the book is Dr. Brian L. Weiss the author of Many lives, Many Masters and Through Time into healing

It can be seen here:

Taken form: http://www.amazon.com/Across-Time-And-D ... 0671889869
Page: Last Page

Brain L. Weiss is another hard believer in reincarnation:

Brian Leslie Weiss (born November 6, 1944) is an American psychiatrist. His research includes reincarnation, past life regression, future-life progression, and survival of the human soul after death.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Weiss

More info:

Past life regression and future life progression[edit]

According to Weiss, in 1980 one of his patients, "Catherine", began discussing past-life experiences under hypnosis. Weiss did not believe in reincarnation at the time but, after confirming elements of Catherine's stories through public records, came to be convinced of the survival of an element of the human personality after death.[5] Weiss claims he has regressed more than 4,000 patients since 1980.

Weiss advocates hypnotic regression as therapy, claiming that many phobias and ailments are rooted in past-life experiences whose acknowledgment by the patient can have a curative effect. Weiss also writes about messages received from the Ascended masters he claims to have communicated with through his subjects. Critics[who?], however, have pointed out historical inaccuracies[which?] and anachronisms[which?] in Weiss's accounts of hypnotic regression to past eras, and also question how his subjects are able to speak of a past life having been in the "BC era" when that system of dating did not exist then.[citation needed] Weiss has explained such apparent discrepancies as the work of what he terms the superconscious mind, a state of hyperconscious awareness.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Weiss

More info on Weiss:

Weiss lives with his wife Carole in Miami, Florida, where he writes and conducts public seminars and workshops on the subject of reincarnation.[1] His daughter Amy E. Weiss is the co-author of his 2012 book Miracles Happen: The Transformational Healing Power of Past-Life Memories.[11]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Weiss

Books from Weiss:

Many Lives, Many Masters: The True Story of a Prominent Psychiatrist, His Young Patient, and the Past-Life Therapy That Changed Both Their Lives (1988). ISBN 0-671-65786-0
Through Time into Healing: Discovering the Power of Regression Therapy to Erase Trauma and Transform Mind, Body and Relationships (1993). ISBN 0-7499-1835-7.
Only Love Is Real: A Story of Soulmates Reunited (1997) ISBN 0-7499-1620-6.
Messages From the Masters: Tapping into the Power of Love (2001). ISBN 0-7499-2167-6
Mirrors of Time: Using Regression for Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Healing (2002). ISBN 1-5617-0929-8.
Same Soul, Many Bodies: Discover the Healing Power of Future Lives through Progression Therapy (2005). ISBN 0-7499-2


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Weiss

Here is the criticism of Weiss:

http://weshagen.wordpress.com/2010/05/2 ... ian-weiss/

Here is the whole criticism from Joe Nickell on this case:

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/

Conclusion of part 11: What to say. It was already debunked. I just took down the criticism made of Joe Nickells work and showed more reasons why I think this is not valid. This whole story sounds to me like a typical child fantasy made by a small child who later on decided to sell a book about it and become famous because the child grew up and realized it would sell because there are so many TV series and movies like this but she added a twist into it in the form of reincarnation. For me this is a closed case because the book came out in the 1990 and her past live was in the early-20th century. So she could have found everything about it. For me this case does NOT prove reincarnation. This case does NOT even hint reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:02 pm

Part 12: A Town Reborn

Here is the new case:

1993 A Town Reborn [ID#23] 275 Rieder


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf

So let’s look on the problems here:

1. Problem: How does the author know for certain that souls travel and in pack and that these souls have laid out future lives?:

Those who teach reincarnation often speak of souls traveling in packs. Your spouse today might have been your best friend in some yesterday, your current neighbor could be a teacher in a past life, and so on. These configurations are intentional, having been carefully planned by the souls involved during their time between lives.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: Its again only hypnotic regression and there are many problems with this:

A subject undergoing hypnotic regression may say that so-and-so in their current life is the reincarnation of some principal person in their past life, but such claims almost always lack supportive testimony. This is because friends and relatives typically are not invited to observe the sessions.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf
Page: 1

3. Problem: Its from Marge Rieder. She is a know believer:

There are exceptions to every rule, however, and one such uncommon observance led to what is probably the best corroborated collection of past lives ever revealed. Marge Rieder, Ph.D., practices hypnotherapy in the town of Lake Elsinore, California.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the info on Marge Rieder belief system. She also beliefs in psychic powers:

Marge Rieder is a hypnotherapist who also researches past-life memories with what could best be described as detective methods. Dr. Rieder is not convinced that the whole explanation for past-life memories lies in reincarnation. Her research shows that genetics may have something to do with it (though clearly not in all cases), and also that psychic ability seems to play a part. When she hypnotizes people to remember a past life, they not only know about how something was in the past, they also mysteriously know how it is now, even though they have no normal way to know this information.

Dr. Rieder believes that everyone has past-life memories, and that they have a lot to do with the things (and people) we like and dislike, our feelings, what we do, and our overall personalities.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kidspage/rieder.html

4. Problem: The methods of Dr. Rieder are very vague and not scientific at all:

Dr. Rieder's "Millboro" study began when one of her patients remembered the name of a man, "John Ashford". The next time the patient was hypnotized, Dr. Rieder asked her, "Who is John Ashford?" The woman answered immediately, "He's my husband."

Dr. Rieder knew that her husband in this life wasn't named John Ashford, and from this small beginning came a study involving a group of more than 20 people who had detailed memories, while under hypnosis, of living in the town of Millboro, Virginia, USA during the Civil War (most of these people currently lived in California, a long way from Virginia, and had never heard of or visited Millboro).

Dr. Rieder did something very unusual with these people--she hypnotized them together. Once in a deep hypnotic trance, they began relating to each other as though they were their former personalities--joking, laughing, gossiping, and even arguing--feeling toward each other the way they felt before, remembering private events and details.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kidspage/rieder.html

5. Problem: Not everything was right in the experiment and the people not said everything right because there were some vague areas:

Once, Dr. Rieder took two of the main people back to Millboro, put them in a hypnotic trance, and allowed a local historian, the deputy sheriff, to question them about the town as it was during the Civil War. Dr. Rieder says he told her afterwards that there were a few vague areas, but mostly what they said was amazingly accurate.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kidspage/rieder.html

6. Problem: This shows some vagueness to the whole story because the person under hypnosis showed that it can be either Mr. Jeffries or Mr. Warren:

During the session with the historian, he asked the two people who were under hypnosis, "Who owned the general store?" One of the subjects answered, "It was either Mr. Jeffries, or Mr. Warren."


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kidspage/rieder.html

7. Problem: Dr. Rieder has released three books about this and she makes a living out of it:

Books by Marge Rieder:
Mission to Millboro
Return to Millboro
Millboro and More

Marge Rieder, Ph.D., has worked in the field of experimental hypnosis for over thirty years. She has lectured throughout southern California on Past-Life Regression and conducted classes on Visual Imagery and Self-Hypnosis.

After attending Santa Ana College, she received advanced degrees from Newport University in Hypnosis and Behavior Modification. She is a graduate of the Professional Hypnosis Center in Tustin, California, is registered with the Hypnotists Examining Council, a member of the American Guild of Hypnotherapists, the American Board of Hypnotherapy, and the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies.


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/rieder.htm

Now lets continue with the pdf.

8. Problem: All of them were friends and the whole process smells full of fake memories because Barbara asked that if she was there. Another problem is that we have no information to back this up. It can be only a imaginative story here:

She had a patient named Maureen, who was reliving a past life as a woman in Virginia during the American Civil War. Maureen invited a friend named Barbara to attend one of the sessions and Dr. Rieder, who was also a friend of Barbara, allowed her to observe. Midway though the session, Barbara passed a note to the therapist that said: “Ask her if I was there.” Rieder reports that she was shocked to hear Maureen say that Barbara was her mother-in-law in that life.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf
Page: 1

9. Problem: They first were saying Marlboro and not Millboro. This can be a excuse:

The name of the town provides significant support to the case, as it was pronounced “Marlboro” by most regressed. The reality of the town at first seemed doubtful when no “Marlboro” could be found on maps of Virginia. But when one entranced subject was induced to write down the name, she wrote ”Millboro.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf
Page: 1

Hmm, Marlboro could have been thanks to this:

Marlboro (US /ˈmɑrb(ə)roʊ/,[2] UK /ˈmɑːlb(ə)rə/ or UK /ˈmɔːlb(ə)rə/[3]) is the largest selling brand of cigarettes in the world. It is made by Philip Morris USA (a branch of Altria) within the US, and by Philip Morris International (now separate from Altria) outside the US. It is well known for its billboard advertisements, magazine ads of the Marlboro Man, and its long associated history in the sponsorship of motorsport. Richmond, Virginia is the location of the largest Marlboro cigarette manufacturing plant.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlboro_(cigarette)

10. Problem: Millboro is not so unknown in Virginia:

Millboro is an unincorporated community in Bath County, Virginia, in the United States.

Douthat State Park Historic District and Millboro School are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.[1]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millboro,_Virginia

11. Problem: I have a hard problem swallowing this excuse because it was done by Rieder:

Upon investigation, Rieder discovered that many residents of the area around Millboro pronounced the name as “Marlboro” to this day.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf
Page: 1

12. Problem: There are three problems here. First its written that the majority didn’t knew each other but there were people who knew each other. Second problem is that this could be caused because of mass hypnosis. People are a pack like animal that means the mentality of the group can win here. Groups can be inflicted with madness like it happened in many cases of mass hysteria. This is the other problem here. The third problem is that they are all under hypnosis and we do not know what Rieder said to them in hypnosis and if she did not create false memories for the whole group. People in groups are easier to manipulate even Hitler knew that and there are tons of books about psychology of a group. There are instances when someone says a group of people to raise their hand then a lot of people in the group raise their hands because other people did it in the group:

A majority of the subjects who are part of the group had not met when they first underwent hypnosis, yet they have all told consistent stories and described the same locations, without any overlap of personalities.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf
Page: 1

13. Problem: The pdf writes this but on the other site its something else. In the pdf it is written that no one knew about these tunnels but on another site it is written that the people forgot about them, so that seems there are some documents about them:

Most evidential, are the buried rooms and tunnels that several subjects described as being utilized by the underground railway in aiding slaves and orphaned Union soldiers to travel north. Although no resident in the current town of Millboro was aware of these, and they were not described in any document nor located on any known map, excavations revealed them to exist precisely as described by Rieders entranced subjects in California – right down to the uncommon color of the walls.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... reborn.pdf
Pages: 1-2

This is written on another site:

There were many instances where Dr. Rieder provided strong proof that these past-life memories were real. Her subjects remembered underground rooms, built by the Indians, which were later used in the underground railroad to hide slaves and help them escape. The people of Millboro had forgotten about them, but sure enough, the rooms are there. Dr. Rieder had a ditch dug alongside one of them and a hole knocked into the side, and took pictures. The inside was exactly as it had been described under hypnosis.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kidspage/rieder.html

13. Problem: The Underground Railroad was a big network in America in the past:

The Underground Railroad was a network of secret routes and safe houses used by 19th-century slaves of African descent in the United States to escape to free states and Canada with the aid of abolitionists and allies who were sympathetic to their cause.[1] The term is also applied to the abolitionists, both black and white, free and enslaved, who aided the fugitives.[2] Various other routes led to Mexico or overseas.[3] While an "Underground Railroad" running south toward Florida, then a Spanish possession, existed from the late 17th century until shortly after the American Revolution,[4] the network now generally known as the Underground Railroad was formed in the early 19th century, and reached its height between 1850 and 1860.[5] One estimate suggests that by 1850, 100,000 slaves had escaped via the "Railroad".[5] British North America (present-day Canada), where slavery was prohibited, was a popular destination, as its long border gave many points of access. More than 30,000 people were said to have escaped there via the network during its 20-year peak period,[6] although U.S. Census figures account for only 6,000.[7] Some fugitives' stories are documented in The Underground Railroad by William Still.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Railroad

Here is more information on it:

The escape network was not literally underground nor a railroad. It was figuratively "underground" in the sense of being an underground resistance. It was known as a "railroad" by way of the use of rail terminology in the code.[13] The Underground Railroad consisted of meeting points, secret routes, transportation, and safe houses, and assistance provided by abolitionist sympathizers. Individuals were often organized in small, independent groups; this helped to maintain secrecy because individuals knew some connecting "stations" along the route but knew few details of their immediate area. Escaped slaves would move north along the route from one way station to the next. "Conductors" on the railroad came from various backgrounds and included free-born blacks, white abolitionists, former slaves (either escaped or manumitted), and Native Americans. Churches also often played a role, especially the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), Congregationalists, Wesleyans, and Reformed Presbyterians as well as certain sects of mainstream denominations such as branches of the Methodist church and American Baptists. Without the presence and support of free black residents, there would have been almost no chance for fugitive slaves to pass into freedom unmolested.[14]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Railroad

14. Problem: It was not a complete railroad it was a room in the church according to this user:

Has anyone ever read "Mission to Millboro" by Marge Rehder? It follows the regression of one woman in Lake Elsinore, California, who under hypnosis recalled a past life in the Civil War in a town called Millboro, Virginia. She recognizes her friend in this life as having been with her in Millboro. The friend gets hypnotized and verifies everything and more. Her son then gets hypnotized and eventually 37 people in Lake Elsinore, California remember living in Millboro! The television show "Sightings" went with them to Millboro, where the Californians took them to an underground room in a church, that was used to hide slaves on the underground railroad! When the boards in the church were lifted, they found muskets, and whiskey bottles dating to the Civil War!! More verifications came, and a second book was written called "Return to Millboro." An engrossing tale...


Taken from: https://www.shirleymaclaine.com/encount ... ostcount=7

Its even written here:

Using the information gained during the hypnotherapy sessions, Dr. Rieder enthralls us by showing the secret tunnels and hideaways she uncovered while on her expeditions to Millboro.


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/mission.htm

This is logical because some churches were involved in it:

The escape network was not literally underground nor a railroad. It was figuratively "underground" in the sense of being an underground resistance. It was known as a "railroad" by way of the use of rail terminology in the code.[13] The Underground Railroad consisted of meeting points, secret routes, transportation, and safe houses, and assistance provided by abolitionist sympathizers. Individuals were often organized in small, independent groups; this helped to maintain secrecy because individuals knew some connecting "stations" along the route but knew few details of their immediate area. Escaped slaves would move north along the route from one way station to the next. "Conductors" on the railroad came from various backgrounds and included free-born blacks, white abolitionists, former slaves (either escaped or manumitted), and Native Americans. Churches also often played a role, especially the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), Congregationalists, Wesleyans, and Reformed Presbyterians as well as certain sects of mainstream denominations such as branches of the Methodist church and American Baptists. Without the presence and support of free black residents, there would have been almost no chance for fugitive slaves to pass into freedom unmolested.[14]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_Railroad

15. Problem: She appeared in Sightings with a lot of believers in reincarnation and woo:

SIGHTINGS

EPISODE DETAIL

INITIAL FOX AIRING: RATING: 5.5, AUDIENCE SHARE: 11
Episode # 39201
Season Two
Aired August 21, 1992
FOX
(30 minutes)

Story Title Featured Interviewees

Back From The Dead FEATURED IN STORY:
Dr. Peter Glaeser - Trauma Center, Children's Hospital Of Wisconsin
Carlos Mondragon - President, Alcor
Bill Seidel - Alcor Suspension Member
Judy Sharp - Alcor Suspension Member
Regina Pancake - Alcor Suspension Member
Amon Ra - Founder, Summum
John A. Chen - Director, IFSEA, Lynn University
Hauntings FEATURED IN STORY:
Pam Limones - Haunting Witness (no attribution given on screen)
Betty Le Masters - Pam's Mom
Dwanna Paul - Psychic
Carol Williams - Psychic

Millboro FEATURED IN STORY:
Brian Weiss, M.D. - Author
Maureen Willaimson - Recalls Past Life (no attribution given on screen)
Marge Rieder - Author, "Mission To Millboro"
Joe Nazarowski - Recalls past Life (no attribution given on screen)
Smokey Williamson - Recalls past Life (no attribution given on screen)
Millie Sproule - Recalls Past Life (no attribution given on screen)


Taken from: http://www.glowingdial.com/print_39201.htm

Now I will look into the other links:

16. Problem: A lot of people who recalled this are from Lake Elsinore, California that means this can be a hoax or they have some sort of connection with each other:

Not one, but more than thirty-five people have been identified, most of them from around Lake Elsinore, California, who, under hypnosis, can recall in graphic detail, life in the same little town in Virginia during the American Civil War! Using the information gained during the hypnotherapy sessions, Dr. Rieder enthralls us by showing the secret tunnels and hideaways she uncovered while on her expeditions to Millboro. She skillfully reconstructs the suspenseful stories of love, tragedy and espionage from these tumultuous times that echo through the past and impact the present.


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/mission.htm

16. Problem: The Civil War is a very well known and documented fact in American History so I think these information is not so hard to get for a American who is interested in history. There must be at least millions of books:

The American Civil War, also known as the War Between the States, or simply the Civil War in the United States (see naming), was a civil war fought from 1861 to 1865 in the United States after several[3] Southern slave states declared their secession and formed the Confederate States of America (the "Confederacy" or the "South"). The states that remained were known as the "Union" or the "North". The war had its origin in the fractious issue of slavery, especially the extension of slavery into the western territories.[4] Foreign powers did not intervene. After four years of bloody combat that left over 600,000 soldiers dead and destroyed much of the South's infrastructure, the Confederacy collapsed, slavery was abolished, and the difficult Reconstruction process of restoring national unity and guaranteeing rights to the freed slaves began.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

17. Problem: The first book according to the first page was released in 1993:

1993 A Town Reborn [ID#23] 275 Rieder


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

18. Problem: I found a review which shows that the author did a sloppy job:

Amateur researcher produces amateur book, February 10, 2001
By W. Lanford
This review is from: Mission to Millboro (Paperback)
As a native of the area the author investigated, and someone who believes the thesis she puts forward is possible, I found this book very disappointing. She had an opportunity to examine a unique situation but spent so much time in relating step by step research of the place name, she exposed the sloppy nature of her efforts and instead of establishing credibility proved she was over her head in this project which was self published. Had she solicted expert help and local historians she would had put forth a much more readable and exciting story. The content is worth reading but the book is tedious and frustrating.


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/review/R1UBLYKAY9 ... LYKAY9RTGZ

19. Problem: The reviewers of her book are believers:

"Dr. Marge Rieder skillfully combines an intriguing spy story worthy of John Le Carré with well-developed psychological research into how the past, even though consciously forgotten, continues to influence our lives today. Mission to Millboro is a thoroughly enjoyable book. I couldn't put it down." Chet B. Snow, Ph.D., Mass Dreams of the Future

"The Millboro case is one of the most fascinating examples of group reincarnation I have ever read. After personally meeting three of the subjects, I am even more impressed with their story." Bruce Goldberg, D.D.S., M.S., The Search for Grace and Past Lives, Future Lives

"Her walking hypnosis methods, seeing two time frames simultaneously, is exciting and could become an important tool in future past-life research." Jess Stearn, Intimates through Time

"Mission to Millboro adds a new dimension to the plethora of books on reincarnation and, in more recent years, past-life regression therapy. Few, if any, of the others provide the wealth of incontrovertible evidence which resulted from Marge Rieder's investigation and research to substantiate her findings. Having met the members of this unusual real-life drama, I was impressed by their skepticism and integrity. It is a remarkable example of groups reincarnating. Highly recommended reading for everyone interested in this fascinating field." Hazel M. Denning, Ph.D., co-founder and first president of the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies

"The subject of reincarnation has been a fascinating one throughout the ages. In the last twenty years we have witnessed the growth of the phenomenon of hypnosis-induced regression, i.e., using hypnosis to reach memories of past experiences buried in the subconscious. The theory that we have all lived before and that memories of our past lives exist and might be available to us through hypnosis is an intriguing one that has therapeutic and metaphysical potential. Ms. Rieder's work is well organized and presented in an absorbing, exciting manner. Apart from being a book that one doesn't want to put down, it should be taken seriously by therapists and people in all walks of life." Robin Ely Berman, M.D., medical director, National Gaucher Foundation


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/mission.htm

20. Problem: Here is one question from the session. Not very precise and the excuses of the author why it is so. I smell cherry picking:

Excerpt

It began with a slice of carrot cake. Maureen Williamson doesn't even particularly like carrot cake, so it was surprising to her that, while at a restaurant with some friends in November of 1986, she ordered carrot cake with her coffee. Several days after that she picked up a tablet and wrote the name: John Daniel Ashford.

Maureen and I had become acquainted through mutual friends, and she was aware of my work with hypnosis. She had originally come to me to help her delve into some areas of her childhood. She came in one day and asked: "Who is John Daniel Ashford? This name has been in my mind lately since you have been hypnotizing me, and I cannot seem to shake it. I need to know who this person is or was." My first inclination was that this John Ashford was probably someone from her forgotten childhood memories so I hypnotized her again and inquired: "Who is John Ashford?" In a firm tone she stated: "He's my husband." Knowing that Maureen's husband's name was not John, my curiosity was aroused, and I asked her if she knew what year it was.

For the past twenty years, particularly the last thirteen that I have lived in Lake Elsinore, California, the study and practice of hypnosis has kept me thoroughly involved. In addition to helping people quit smoking, understand their phobias, retrieve lost or misplaced articles, face and overcome a myriad of other human frailties, I have a fascination for the other side of the coin - the experimental side of hypnosis. Dealing directly with the unconscious mind can benefit mankind in many ways, as yet undocumented. Again and again, my clients have surprised me and themselves by opening unexpected avenues of research and exploration. The human mind is not only vast and mysterious but also totally unpredictable. It is a source of constant amazement what people in trance will tell an alert, trained hypnotist. This is particularly true in the area of past life work....

When asked where she was, Maureen said she was in Virginia, in a town called "Marlboro" and that her name was Rebecca or Becky. As to the year, she said: "1861 or 31."

One must bear in mind that in this type of past life regression, which is what this seemed to turn out to be, names and dates are often confused. Sometimes the names and dates will be inverted or transposed, similar but different. One person in my study gave the town name as Millford, another said Wellborn. Dates are ascertained by historical events, such as the Civil War. Sometimes even this can backfire. When one subject was regressed and instructed to go back in time to the Civil War, she immediately began describing a lifetime during the French Revolution. Now I am careful to instruct, the American Civil War. In order to get a better fix on the time period, Becky was asked what was happening in the country. She said: "There's a war; the South and the North are fighting." That would make the year 1861, right on target.


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/mission.htm

21. Problem: Her second book Return to Millboro is also reviewed by believers:

"Marge Rieder has done it again! Return to Millboro is even more compelling than its predecessor, as her cast of Civil War characters expands to include prehistoric Indians, runaway slaves, and the underground railroad." Chet B. Snow. Ph.D., Mass Dreams of the Future

"The entranced Edgar Cayce spoke of group reincarnation; Marge Rieder has demonstrated it! In this sequel to Mission to Millboro, she presents the conclusion of an air-tight case for group rebirth, proving it beyond a reasonable doubt. The evidence, both internal and external, is overwhelming. Under hypnosis, in a nine-year study, total strangers have revealed identical accounts of Civil War Millboro, Virginia, which are buttressed by substantial physical evidence, photographs, and government records, including a mind-boggling letter sent to Jefferson Davis. An extraordinary piece of past-life research, the best of its kind to date." George Schwimmer, Ph.D., The Search for David


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/return.htm

22. Problem: This excerpt is great. Rieder first rejects that her new patient is from Millboro but later on admits she is from there:

Excerpt


During the time I was researching Mission to Millboro, I discussed many aspects of the story with my daughter Evie, and on several occasions she insisted that she was part of this story.

Finally I hypnotized her and instructed her to regress to the time of the American Civil War. She was unable to see herself in or around Millboro. My conclusion was that she had heard me talk about this story so much that her imagination had told her she was a part of it.

At a later time, I hypnotized her for a totally unrelated reason. My instruction was, "Regress back into a lifetime in which you were very happy, contented, and fulfilled."

Immediately she started talking about a man named Roy. Roy was a dairy farmer who lived just outside of Williamsville, Virginia, about ten miles due north of Millboro. Roy died just prior to the advent of the Civil War. This emphasized to me how extremely literal the unconscious mind is. Had I instructed her to locate a lifetime around the time of the Civil War, she would undoubtedly have led me to Roy. We will meet and study Roy's life later in this narrative.

After we unearthed Roy, Evie informed me that she felt certain there was another, earlier lifetime buried in her mind, one that also related to the Millboro story.

She then introduced herself as Running Springs, saying, "I have the wisdom of the ages. I told the people this would befall them: the white man would come, and we would have nothing left - nothing!"

The extremely gregarious Running Springs explained that she had always lived in the area of Robin's Nest. Her first exposure to white men happened when she was young, around age eleven or twelve. At that time, the country had very few white men, and they were not located in her vicinity. She had heard about them; then one day, there appeared a canoe on the river, and in it was one of the light skins. He was a trapper who had a long thing, a "noise stick" that frightened her. Later she claimed it was a musket. She was curious about the stranger but kept her distance.

Running Springs' father had once been the chief, but both her parents had died from the fever when she was very little, and she had become a "child of the tribe, grew up associating with all members of the tribe, and was everybody's child." Her early years, until about age twelve, were spent near the river, where Millboro Springs is today. Then, as the white man came in larger numbers and built the mill, the Indian group moved their village over to where the town of Millboro stands today. When the railroad came through the area, it presented a shock to the Indians and pretty much finished life as they had known it. They did everything they could to sabotage the railroad as it was being built. "We would steal the wooden ties and separate the tracks with large, strong sticks, and leave crossed skulls and artifacts on the site to intimidate the white man into thinking this was sacred burial ground. The tunnel was part way there (already), and the white men dug it on through the h! ill. That area was (in fact) a sacred Indian ceremonial ground; brave initiation ceremonies were held there, and up on the hill was a burial site." This fact has been verified by a member of the present-day Ailstock family, who informed me that she once owned 200 acres on Tunnel Hill in Millboro, which held many Indian burial mounds.

This was a time when the American government was concentrating on herding the large bulk of surviving Indians onto reservations. The Native Americans in the area of what was to become Millboro resisted and hid out, but, following the invasion of the railroad, white men came in such large numbers that the Indians were forced to retreat up the hill to the Robin's Nest area. "These arrogant white people came in here and decided it's their land!" Running Springs made no effort to conceal her bitterness. "We have been here thousands and thousands of years. My grandmother was born here; she saw the formation of the stars, the hills."


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/return.htm

23. Problem: Some woo for gays:

Many of the stories in this book were researched as much as thirty years ago. The homosexual study reinforces ideas with us today. Gay people do not want to change their orientation, do not want anyone attempting to change them. They are, however, extremely interested and curious about what it is that makes them gay. Why do they have brothers and sisters that are perfectly "normal"? The one outstanding point upon which they all agree is that the gay orientation is innate. None of them ever consciously chose to be gay.


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/Millboro.html

The answer is genes, no need for reincarnation woo.. There are countless studies about this.

24. Problem: Woo for twins:

The twin study strongly indicates to me that John Locke's theory of the "tabula rasa," that the mind is a blank slate at birth, is erroneous. In fact, throughout the thirty years I have worked with hypnosis, I am continually amazed at the interesting, sometimes colorful, weird and wonderful things that are buried deeply in all our minds-things that had to be there at birth, as none of us could have lived, in this lifetime, long enough to have amassed such a storehouse of information. Let me reiterate that this work indicates that only identical twins appear to be hiding the same past-life memories. Work with fraternal twins disclosed that they share some past lifetimes but not all.


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/Millboro.html

Yeah we all have past life memories and we are born with the abilities to write, talk and so on and so forth. Geez why did I get to school if I had a past life I should be able to skip all classes in school and would be a super genius in this era because I would already have the knowledge of the past.

25. Problem: Its funny that the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies is now closed:

"Mission to Millboro adds a new dimension to the plethora of books on reincarnation and, in more recent years, past-life regression therapy. Few, if any, of the others provide the wealth of incontrovertible evidence which resulted from Marge Rieder's investigation and research to substantiate her findings. Having met the members of this unusual real-life drama, I was impressed by their skepticism and integrity. It is a remarkable example of groups reincarnating. Highly recommended reading for everyone interested in this fascinating field." Hazel M. Denning, Ph.D., co-founder and first president of the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/mission.htm

The info that they closed:

IARRT stands for International Association for Regression Research & Therapies, Inc. Founded as APRT - Association for Past Life Research and Therapies - IARRT was a non-profit organization dedicated to increasing the acceptance and use of professional and responsible past-life regression through education, association and research. It was an international organization of professional, student, and supporting members across the United States, Canada and other countries world wide.

Past Life Regression Therapy is considered one of the most powerful tools available for transformation in the fields of integrative medicine, psychology and self awareness.

The effectiveness of past life recall created a demand for therapists skilled in regression techniques. In 1980, a group of more than 50 past life therapists convened to create the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies (later renamed the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies, Inc.). The association has become an internationally recognized organization with members holding conferences throughout the world.

IARRT closed its doors and ceased active operations in January, 2014.


Taken from: http://www.iarrt.org/about.html

26. Problem: Rieder is also member of IARRT which is now closed:

Books by Marge Rieder:
Mission to Millboro
Return to Millboro
Millboro and More

Marge Rieder, Ph.D., has worked in the field of experimental hypnosis for over thirty years. She has lectured throughout southern California on Past-Life Regression and conducted classes on Visual Imagery and Self-Hypnosis.

After attending Santa Ana College, she received advanced degrees from Newport University in Hypnosis and Behavior Modification. She is a graduate of the Professional Hypnosis Center in Tustin, California, is registered with the Hypnotists Examining Council, a member of the American Guild of Hypnotherapists, the American Board of Hypnotherapy, and the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies.


Taken from: http://www.bluedolphinpublishing.com/rieder.htm

Here is the info its closed now. So it seems nothing really came out of it:

IARRT stands for International Association for Regression Research & Therapies, Inc. Founded as APRT - Association for Past Life Research and Therapies - IARRT was a non-profit organization dedicated to increasing the acceptance and use of professional and responsible past-life regression through education, association and research. It was an international organization of professional, student, and supporting members across the United States, Canada and other countries world wide.

Past Life Regression Therapy is considered one of the most powerful tools available for transformation in the fields of integrative medicine, psychology and self awareness.

The effectiveness of past life recall created a demand for therapists skilled in regression techniques. In 1980, a group of more than 50 past life therapists convened to create the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies (later renamed the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies, Inc.). The association has become an internationally recognized organization with members holding conferences throughout the world.

IARRT closed its doors and ceased active operations in January, 2014.


Taken from: http://www.iarrt.org/about.html

Conclusion of part 12: It was interesting at first but after reading some things into it I became skeptical. This case after someone has read more about history becomes too weak and too pathetic to discuss. Also the author build her career on the Millboro case which can be seen on how many books she sells under that title. Again everything here is old and was used some times and her methods of hypnotherapy which she shows in her excerpt shows a lot of errors and are open to cherry picking and other problems. This part is not so long because I will not repeat the same things over and over. It’s the same story over and over again. For me this case does NOT prove reincarnation. This case does NOT even hint reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:10 pm

Part 13: Round Trip To Allentown

Here is the new case:

1995 Round Trip To Allentown [ID#63] 273 Sightings


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf

Now lets look on the problems:

1. Problem: Again hypnosis and past-life regression which has a lot of problems. This was pointed out above in this thread:

Unlike the typical subject of hypnotic age regression who seeks relief from symptoms unexplained in their current life, Tim Stewart sought only to write a article for a national magazine. A computer programmer and freelance journalist, Stewart was living in Albuquerque, New Mexico, when he was given the assignment to write about past-life therapy. To research the subject, about which he was more the dubious, he underwent several regressions in the offices of hypno-therapists Irene Larson and Elsa LaFlame, Ph.D.1


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: He underwent several regressions:

Unlike the typical subject of hypnotic age regression who seeks relief from symptoms unexplained in their current life, Tim Stewart sought only to write a article for a national magazine. A computer programmer and freelance journalist, Stewart was living in Albuquerque, New Mexico, when he was given the assignment to write about past-life therapy. To research the subject, about which he was more the dubious, he underwent several regressions in the offices of hypno-therapists Irene Larson and Elsa LaFlame, Ph.D.1


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

3. Problem: He recalled this during the fourth session? I have my doubts here:

During the fourth session, Stewart experienced being a soldier, and seemed to be reliving battles somewhere in North Africa during the second world war. Now, it is not unusual for hypnotized subjects to recall emotional scenes of fighting and dying, but Stewart went way beyond such general descriptions. He not only gave the soldiers name – William Max – but named his army unit – the 47th Infantry, 9th Division – and his blood type, his date of death, and his army ID number. Furthermore, Stewart recalled that Max was born on May 27, 1919 and had grown up in Allentown , Pennsylvania, that he was married and had children.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

4. Problem: He was a journalist and could have found this information about that person before and did just not remember it:

Unlike the typical subject of hypnotic age regression who seeks relief from symptoms unexplained in their current life, Tim Stewart sought only to write a article for a national magazine. A computer programmer and freelance journalist, Stewart was living in Albuquerque, New Mexico, when he was given the assignment to write about past-life therapy. To research the subject, about which he was more the dubious, he underwent several regressions in the offices of hypno-therapists Irene Larson and Elsa LaFlame, Ph.D.1


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

5. Problem: According to the web-site this story happened in 1995 and the second world war was far from over:

1995 Round Trip To Allentown [ID#63] 273 Sightings


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

6. Problem: The the 47th Infantry, 9th Division is very well known and old:

The 9th Infantry Division ("Old Reliables"[1]) was created as the 9th Division during World War I, but never deployed overseas. Later, the division was an important unit of the United States Army in World War II and the Vietnam War. It was also activated as a peacetime readiness unit from 1947 to 1962 at Fort Dix, New Jersey, and Fort Carson, Colorado, and from 1972 to 1991 as an active-duty infantry division at Fort Lewis, Washington. Nicknamed the "Old Reliables", the division was eventually inactivated in December 1991.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Infant ... ted_States)

Here is even the time they fought in Africa, Bizerte is a African town:

With the collapse of French resistance on 11 November 1942, the division patrolled the Spanish Moroccan border. The 9th returned to Tunisia in February and engaged in small defensive actions and patrol activity. On 28 March 1943 it launched an attack in southern Tunisia and fought its way north into Bizerte, 7 May. In August, the 9th landed at Palermo, Sicily, and took part in the capture of Randazzo and Messina. After returning to England for further training, the division landed on Utah Beach on 10 June 1944 (D plus 4), cut off the Cotentin Peninsula, drove on to Cherbourg and penetrated the port's heavy defenses.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Infant ... ted_States)

Bizerte:

Bizerte (Arabic: بنزرت Binzart‎, Berber: Benzert, Italian: Biserta), also known in English as Bizerta, is the capital city of Bizerte Governorate in Tunisia and the northernmost city in Africa. It has a population of 230,879 (2009 census).


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizerte

7. Problem: How could he know his date of death when it’s a past life? He could not remember this one because he died:

During the fourth session, Stewart experienced being a soldier, and seemed to be reliving battles somewhere in North Africa during the second world war. Now, it is not unusual for hypnotized subjects to recall emotional scenes of fighting and dying, but Stewart went way beyond such general descriptions. He not only gave the soldiers name – William Max – but named his army unit – the 47th Infantry, 9th Division – and his blood type, his date of death, and his army ID number.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

8. Problem: The name William Max is vague at best because its made out of two surnames:

During the fourth session, Stewart experienced being a soldier, and seemed to be reliving battles somewhere in North Africa during the second world war. Now, it is not unusual for hypnotized subjects to recall emotional scenes of fighting and dying, but Stewart went way beyond such general descriptions. He not only gave the soldiers name – William Max – but named his army unit – the 47th Infantry, 9th Division – and his blood type, his date of death, and his army ID number.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

9. Problem: All the information we have is from a TV show. Who is made to sell. Oh boy:

The information in this case report was adapted from a segment of the television show Sightings broadcast on CBS on 6 May 1995. The case would have an even higher ESS score if it were to be corroborated by other sources. Therefore, if the subject, Tim Stewart, or anyone knowing him reads this, please send us a note via aeces@mail.com


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

10. Problem: Stewart was in Pennsylvania before as a toddler and could have had interest in this town because it was his town where he lived:

This story presents strong evidence for Survival, but there is an epilogue that might make it even more convincing to those doubters who would gasp at the straw of Super-ESP and claim that Stewart got all information by clairvoyantly accessing old newspaper clippings and military archives. In 1993, Stewart returned to Pennsylvania – a place he had not been since he was a toddler – to attend the funeral of his favorite uncle. While at the funeral, Stewart encountered an elderly woman who was a stranger to him, yet she insisted that he looked familiar to her. In response to her queries he told her his name and the names of various relatives, but she could not make the connection she sought. Then Stewart asked her name and she replied, Thelma Max.” Further conversations revealed that Thelma Max was the widow of the brother of William Max.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

His reincarnation was from Pennsylvania:

During the fourth session, Stewart experienced being a soldier, and seemed to be reliving battles somewhere in North Africa during the second world war. Now, it is not unusual for hypnotized subjects to recall emotional scenes of fighting and dying, but Stewart went way beyond such general descriptions. He not only gave the soldiers name – William Max – but named his army unit – the 47th Infantry, 9th Division – and his blood type, his date of death, and his army ID number. Furthermore, Stewart recalled that Max was born on May 27, 1919 and had grown up in Allentown , Pennsylvania, that he was married and had children.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

11. Problem: The authors jump from one woo claim to another. The pdf is very biased and they cannot think of normal explanations even when it is present there in the text in the form that Thelma Max was on a funeral where Stewarts favorite uncle died. They could have been related or even friends with the Max family. Also the pdf states another explanation that Stewart could know this information from the old newspaper clippings without Super-ESP:

This story presents strong evidence for Survival, but there is an epilogue that might make it even more convincing to those doubters who would gasp at the straw of Super-ESP and claim that Stewart got all information by clairvoyantly accessing old newspaper clippings and military archives. In 1993, Stewart returned to Pennsylvania – a place he had not been since he was a toddler – to attend the funeral of his favorite uncle. While at the funeral, Stewart encountered an elderly woman who was a stranger to him, yet she insisted that he looked familiar to her. In response to her queries he told her his name and the names of various relatives, but she could not make the connection she sought. Then Stewart asked her name and she replied, Thelma Max.” Further conversations revealed that Thelma Max was the widow of the brother of William Max.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 1

12. Problem: This recognition is very pathetic and several soldiers in the war had these same feelings because it was war and many of them though that if they were send far away then they would not make it. It is the same like the Nazis feared to be send to the Russian Front because there was the war most devastating. Also Schentzle does not know precise if he had not told it to anyone. Another problem here is that many people look familiar but must not be related or reincarnated:

Harold Schentzle, a boyhood friend of William Max heard about Stewart’s incredible story and arranged a meeting. Schentzle had serious doubts about Stewart’s claims and he thought he had the perfect way to settle the matter. After admitting that there was some resemblance, Schentzle asked Stewart if he could recall the last thing that Max said to him prior to embarking for the war. In reply, Stewart told Schentzle that Max had said, “In 1940, I had a dream that if I went into service and I got shipped overseas, I would never made it home. I’d be killed.” Schentzle, who was convinced that Max had never told that dream to anyone but him, fell back in his chair as the blood drained from his face.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rt-max.pdf
Page: 2

13. Problem: The TV series Sightings are far from unbiased:

Sightings is an American paranormal and news television series that originally aired from April 17, 1992 to August 1, 1997. The program began as a special titled The UFO Report: Sightings on October 18, 1991. The original Concept Creator and Supervising Producer of that hour special produced by Paramount for Fox TV was Linda Moulton Howe, an Emmy Award-winning TV producer and documentary filmmaker of TV specials about science and the environment. One of her Emmy award-winning broadcasts was A Strange Harvest (KMGH-TV in May 1980), about the worldwide animal-mutilation mystery linked by law enforcement to extraterrestrial biological entities.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sightings_(TV_series)

After the special broadcast to high ratings, it went forward into weekly TV production as the series Sightings. The show featured everything from UFOs to ghosts to Bigfoot in an investigative news format and was hosted by reporter Tim White. The show was created by Ann Daniels Productions, Fair Dinkum Productions, and Paramount Domestic Television. One of its executive producers was Henry Winkler.

The series began on Fox in 1992, in a 30 minute long format that aired on Friday nights. When the show was put into syndication in 1994, it was extended to an hour long format and was on at various times. In 1996, it was picked up by Sci Fi Channel. Sightings was cancelled in 1997 (although five special episodes aired in 1998), and reruns continued on the Sci Fi Channel until April 2003.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sightings_(TV_series)

Sightings: Heartland Ghost[edit]
Main article: Sightings: Heartland Ghost

In 2002, one of the stories featured on Sightings became the subject of a television movie, called Sightings: Heartland Ghost. The movie tells the story of a Sightings crew sent to investigate a poltergeist haunting, eventually becoming victimized by the ghost themselves.[1]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sightings_(TV_series)

14.Problem: Sightings is about money, just look on the merchandise:

Merchandise[edit]
Two books were released in 1997 related to the Sightings television show - Sightings: Beyond Imagination Lies the Truth and Sightings: UFOs.
One software product was released related to the Sightings television show called Sightings: UFOPedia. The software included pictures, reports, footage, and never before seen footage from the show in an encyclopedia format.
A line of clothing was released related to the Sightings television show that included t-shirts. The shirts would have either a ghost, alien, or psychic on the front with the word Sightings.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sightings_(TV_series)

Conclusion of Part 13: There can be more errors in this story but I will not look deeper into this. Stewart knew the family to some degree because they were on the funeral, second he was a reporter and the story came out in 1995 where the internet was already in place and could be used. There can be more problems here if there would be more information available. For me this case is pathetic and does NOT prove reincarnation. This case does NOT even hint reincarnation at all. Sorry for the quick view but its over and over the same which was discussed nothing new here.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:24 pm

Part 14: Having A Friend

Here is the new case:

1995 Having A Friend [ID#72] 264 Andrade


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf

Now lets look on the problems which I have found:

1. Problem: This case happened in Brazil and on a Catholic school so it is from a believer viewpoint:

When Mariana Waters was young, she boarded for several years at a Catholic school in Brazil.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: Brazil is full of religion even when there are some non-believers:

Religion in Brazil has a higher adherence level compared to other Latin American countries, and is more diverse. The dominant religion of Brazil historically was and still is Christianity. Brazil possesses a richly spiritual society formed from the meeting of the Roman Catholic Church with the religious traditions of African slaves and indigenous peoples. This confluence of faiths during the Portuguese colonization of Brazil led to the development of a diverse array of syncretistic practices within the overarching umbrella of Brazilian Roman Catholicism, characterized by traditional Portuguese festivities.[3] Until recently Catholicism was overwhelmingly dominant. Rapid change in the 21st century has led to a growth in secularism (no religious affiliation), and evangelical Protestantism to over 22% of the population. The 2010 census indicates that under 65% of Brazilians consider themselves Catholic, down from 90% in 1970, leading Cardinal Cláudio Hummes to comment, "We wonder with anxiety: how long will Brazil remain a Catholic country?"[4]

In 1891, when the first Brazilian Republican Constitution was set forth, Brazil ceased to have an official religion and has remained secular ever since, though the Catholic Church remained politically influential into the 1970s. The Constitution of Brazil guarantees freedom of religion and strongly prohibits the establishment of any religion by banning government support or hindrance of religion at all levels.[3] In the 2010 census[1] 64.6% of the population declared themselves as Roman Catholic, 22.2% as Protestant, 8% as non religious, and 5.2% as followers of other religions (mostly Spiritists or Kardecists who follow the doctrines of Allan Kardec, Umbandists, Candomblers, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and minorities of Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, and other groups).

Brazilian religions are very diversified and inclined to syncretism. In recent decades, there has been a great increase of Neo-Pentecostal churches and a thriving of Afro-Brazilian religions,[5] which have decreased the number of members of the Roman Catholic Church.[6] It is also important to notice how the number of Umbandists and Candomblers could be significantly higher than the official census figure, since many of them continue to this day to disguise their religion under "Roman Catholic" syncretism.[7] About ninety percent of Brazilians declared some sort of religious affiliation in the most recent census.[8]
Demographics[edit]

2010:[1]
Roman Catholicism: 123.000.000 - 64.6%
Protestantism: 42.300.000 - 22.2%
No religion: 15.000.000 - 8%
Other religions: 9.300.000 - 5.2%


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Brazil

3. Problem: This sounds like a typical love story ala Hollywood. Also she could see something in him but it does not have to be metaphysical. She was young on a Catholic school and maybe she became fascinated by him. Another problem is that it is again a priest a person who is open to metaphysical speculations and not a real skeptic per se:

As often happens with the young, however, the new school year brought increased introspection, uncertainty, and an unaccountable malaise. Her feelings seem more intense whenever she encountered Father Jonathan, the new priest at school. This priest wasn’t nearly as good looking or aristocratic as the one he replaced, but something about him stirred Marianas soul. When he first spoke to her, asking a perfectly innocent question about their schedule, Mariana recalls, “For no reason at all, I started to tremble…My hands shook and my heart beat wildly.” As the time went, by Father Jonathan seemed more and more to go out of his way to speak with Mariana, although he did not seem to notice that effect his presence was having on her, at least not at first.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

4. Problem: The priest wanted to talk to Mariana more often and I think he noticed her behavior:

When he first spoke to her, asking a perfectly innocent question about their schedule, Mariana recalls, “For no reason at all, I started to tremble…My hands shook and my heart beat wildly.” As the time went, by Father Jonathan seemed more and more to go out of his way to speak with Mariana, although he did not seem to notice that effect his presence was having on her, at least not at first.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

5. Problem: This looks like a typical romance of a girl with a priest. She even gave him a nickname. Oh for the sake of the argument how can someone believe in this garbage. Also she only referred to him as Alexandre and this is very vague even when she claimed later on she was reincarnated :

Now, this is not a tale of clerical wrong-doing, pubescent lust, or even unrequited romance. But over the ensuring year, the girl and the priest talked with greater frequency and confided ever more personal thoughts and feelings, forming a closer friendship than one might expect possible, given their limited free time and the constant scrutiny of the nuns. Most critically to this case, on the day that they first verbalized their friendship, Mariana told him that she would ever after refer to him as “Alexandre.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

6. Problem: They became so strong friends that they even wrote after they parted ways. She can become very emotional of him thanks to this and I think she loved him:

The school decided to close its boarding program and Marianas home was beyond commuting distance. Her personal contact with Father Jonathan was over, although he did write to her occasionally, the last time being in July of 1970. She did not respond to those missives.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

7. Problem: This called institute is known for its woo along with Andrade who is a known believer in Spiritism because he wrote rebuttals of its criticism among many things like he wanted to prove a soul or spirit:

In a rather unusual way, though, Marianas contact with the priest was renewed in the most extremely personal way possible. The evidence we have strongly suggests that, nearly eight years after she last saw him, she gave birth to him. The evidence comes to us through the efforts of the Brazilian Institute for Psychobiological Research, and its president, H.G. Andrade.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the information about Andrade which shows he is a believer in spiritism and also the founder of the Brazilian Institute for Psychobiophysical Research:

In Brazil, Catholic priests Dom Carlos Kloppenburg and Oscar González Quevedo, among others, have since the 1960s written extensively against Spiritism from both a doctrinal and parapsychologic perspective. Quevedo, in particular, has dedicated himself to show that Spiritism's claims of being a science are invalid, having not only written books on the subject[22] but also hosted paranormal debunking shows on television, the most recent of which a series that ran in 2000 on Globo's hugely popular Sunday prime time news show Fantástico.[23] Brazilian Spiritists, such as Dr. Hernani Guimarães Andrade, have in turn written rebuttals to these criticisms.[22]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritism

Here is more information that he is the founder of the institute:

Hernani Guimarães Andrade 1913-2003. A Centenary Tribute

Posted on 23 October 2013, 9:06

When Hernani (below) founded the Brazilian Institute for Psychobiophysical Research (IBPP in its Brazilian acronym) in 1963, the status of psychical research in his country was much as it had been in England in 1882, when a small group of Spiritualists and Cambridge academics founded the Society for Psychical Research. That is to say, there had hardly been any at all.


Taken from: http://whitecrowbooks.com/guylyonplayfa ... ry_tribute

He is viewed as a god in the Spiritist and pro-paranormal circles:

The centenary of Hernani’s birth was marked at several Spiritist centres in Brazil, while in the town of Bauru (population 350,000), where he went to live after his retirement, there is now a street named Avenida Hernani Guimarães Andrade, perhaps the first to have been named after a psi researcher.

He will be remembered as the founder of parapsychology in Brazil, an active field researcher and laboratory experimentalist, and prolific author of some twenty books and monographs and numerous articles in which he always concentrated on the scientific evidence for the phenomena associated with Spiritism and parapsychology.

Above all, I remember him as a great teacher who became a great friend. He taught me all I know about how to investigate spontaneous cases, and it is entirely thanks to him that I gave up ‘normal’ journalism to concentrate on matters that await explanation. I am proud of the fact that The Flying Cow (1975) was translated into five languages and helped introduce Hernani to those in Europe and elsewhere to whom Brazil was then a faraway land of which they knew practically nothing.


Taken from: http://whitecrowbooks.com/guylyonplayfa ... ry_tribute

His own organization does not even exist now:

The IBPP may have ceased to exist, yet Hernani’s influence endures. In 2013 the status of psi research in Brazil was very different from what it had been before its foundation. The Parapsychological Association now has more Brazilian members than those of any other country outside Europe and the U.S.A. and by holding its 2011 conference in Curitiba, the P.A. put Brazil firmly on the map of centres of psi research. Courses in parapsychology are now available at a number of Brazilian universities, notably São Paulo and Juiz de Fora in addition to Curitiba.


Taken from: http://whitecrowbooks.com/guylyonplayfa ... ry_tribute

Here is more info:

These are three of the many cases of ‘paranormal’ phenomena that were meticulously investigated by pioneer Brazilian parapsychologist Hernani Guimarães Andrade (1913-2003), who was both a scientist and a Spiritist. Here, he provides some of the best evidence on record, whether for poltergeists, reincarnation, or survival of death.

Author: Hernani Guimarães Andrade (scientist)

Hernani Guimarães Andrade (1913-2003) graduated in civil engineering from the University of São Paulo in 1941, and after working for various public and private companies including Brazil’s National Steel Company, he joined the São Paulo state water and electricity department where he became technical director of its electricity and telephone division. In 1961 he founded the Brazilian Institute for Psychobiophysical Research (IBPP) with a small group of like-minded Spiritists, its stated objective being ‘The study of paranormal facts and systematic research into the laws, properties and potential of the spirit by scientific methods’. He was the author of sixteen books, including three on reincarnation based on the original research he and his colleagues carried out on 75 Brazilian cases.


Taken from: http://www.roundtablepublishing-uk.com/books.htm

More info on him:

1972 – BRAZIL
Dr. Hernani G. Andrade
He always was considered the greatest divulger of Spiritism in Brazil. He built his Kirlian Camera, in S?o Paulo (SP), and took many hundreds of Kirlian Photos of plants and human beings intending to prove the existence of Spirit with them, not only in human beings, but even in bacteria too. He only divulged his researches in Spiritist Magazines and Congresses mainly at the State of S?o Paulo (SP) where is considered the greatest one.


Taken from: http://www.iumab.org/index.php/history- ... ctrography

He worked even with Ian Stevenson:

Guy Lyon Playfair was a colleague and collaborator of the renowned Dr. Hernani Guimaraes Andrade, the first Brazilian Spiritist researcher on Psychic Phenomena.
Dr. Andrade was also a collaborator to Dr. Ian Stevenson. Playfair will talk about his collaboration with Dr. Andrade as well as the amazing research he had done and published on the book The Flying Cow.


Taken from: http://spiritismnews.blogspot.sk/2012/0 ... by-dr.html

Those who knew how to speak the language in Brazil here are more links:

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hernani_Guimarães_Andrade
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instituto_ ... _Psicobiofísicas

8. Problem: There were many interviews. So again this is a problem. More information which can be added later on, this is weak and it has the same weakness as other reincarnation cases:

Basils response was dramatically different from the norm. Its concise yet thorough account of the full details of the case prompted Andrade and company to initiate an investigation that involved numerous interviews of the parties involved.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

9. Problem: I will look only on the “facts” which they claim are supernatural and claim of reincarnation. The first one is pretty pathetic and has a lot of problems in itself. I will show them here. First: Its again a dream and that after she woke up she heard in the radio that Father Jonathan has died thanks to her husband. This can be a normal way of un-logically to explain the dream that father Jonathan was trying to tell her that he is going to die. Second: Its un-logical because in the dream was no car accident involved only that they could not touch. Third: Jonathan died the next day and not in the night. Fourth: She already felt a presence of him, wow I can sometimes feel that someone is looking at me but when I turn around no one is there to begin with. We all have sometimes strange feelings but that does not mean we should jump to un-logical and paranormal conclusions. Fifth: How can she remember this so well? It was a dream and dreams are hard to remember and later on the article about this case came out in 1995:

One night of May 31, 1972 she experienced a strong sense of Father Jonathans presence and, after falling asleep, she dreamed of the priest standing on the far side of a field of lilies. They reached out to each other, but could not quite touch. The next, day Marianas husband heard on the radio the news that Father Jonathan had just died from injuries received in a car accident.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

Here is that it went out in 1995 for the first time in a journal so all we have are memories of the people involved:

Source:
This case was derived from the English version of the book Reborn for Love, by Hernani Guimarães Andrade, Roundtable Publishing, 2010. The original Portuguese version of which was published as Proceeding #7 of the Brazilian Institute for Psychobiophysical Research in 1995. As with the original document, the names used here are pseudonyms to protect the privacy of the people involved and for ease of comprehension by English-speaking readers.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 3

10. Problem: She named the baby Alexandre. She could be referring to the priest name. Maybe not consciously but she maybe liked the name because she even named her priest love that way:

Eight years later, after having two daughters, Mariana gave birth to her second son, whom she named Kilden Alexandre. There is no indication whether or not the boys middle name was a conscious echo of the name she had previously bestowed upon her clerical confidant.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

11. Problem: This can have a normal explanation and there is another problem. How can they remember this all when as said before the first report went out in 1995. Another problem this can be just un-logical rationalization when they began to believe their child is a reincarnation. Even the pdf is hinting this:

Although Kilden was a quiet baby who slept well, soon after his arrival the family heard inexplicable knocking and banging sounds from various rooms and objects in the house.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

Here is the pdf hinting that this can be rationalization after someone told them that their child can be a reincarnation. I know that the author of the pdf did not want it to sound it that way but he did it:

Then, he began to claim, “I am not Kilden, you silly! I am the priest! I am Alexandre!” To which his parents would reply, ”Oh! So you want to be a priest?” and Kilden would shout, ”No! I am not going to be a priest! I am the priest!”
Despite such adamant claims, neither Mariana nor her husband considered the possibility of something as foreign to their religion as reincarnation. Not then, anyway.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

12. Problem: Here it seems that the parents even not believed the child and were normal and logical. Also the child would only sometimes respond that way, not always which leaves me doubtful:

When, around the age of two, Kilden began to talk, he would sometimes respond to his name by shouting, “I am not Kilden, I am Alexandre!” His parents simply assumed that the toddler preferred his middle name to his first.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

13. Problem: Here again the parents are logical. It also shows how vague are these claims. The last thing is that I was right, the parents do not though about reincarnation and all was made after the fact and rationalizing in a un-rational way when someone told them that he can be reincarnated, which even the text in the pdf is telling:

Then, he began to claim, “I am not Kilden, you silly! I am the priest! I am Alexandre!” To which his parents would reply, ”Oh! So you want to be a priest?” and Kilden would shout, ”No! I am not going to be a priest! I am the priest!”
Despite such adamant claims, neither Mariana nor her husband considered the possibility of something as foreign to their religion as reincarnation. Not then, anyway.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

13. Problem: Here are a lot of problems. First it is stated that the mother was playing with the child this game or with others so the child knew about this game but in 1983 he responded different. Why did he not responded that way when he could first talk? Another problem is that she had friends who were Spiritists and they could influence her decision which they actually did. Third the statements are vague and she is again after she heard her friends starting to un-logically rationalize this stuff. Fourth: In the beginning of the pdf it is said that they were only friends but here, Mariana is behaving like there was much more then friendship between the two of them, I mean here Mariana and the priest. Fifth how can she remember this all when the first whole story of this came to be in 1995 in a journal even according to the pdf. Another problem we have only the word of Mariana who became a believed in reincarnation and was a strong Catholic before because she visited a Catholic school:

Early in 1983, Mariana was dressing Kilden when she playfully asked him, “Where did mommy find this little sweetie?” This was a game she often played with her children and generally elicited a response about being fetched from the hospital. This time, however, Kilden quite seriously said: “You know! I was on a motorcycle. Then a truck came and hit the motorcycle. It fell over, and I hit my head on the ground, and I died, and went down there. And you got another me.” When did this happened?” Mariana asked. “When I was a priest!”
This event prompted Mariana to confer with some friends who were Spiritists1 and she soon began to consider reincarnation as a real possibility. She even wondered if the soul of Father Jonathan might feel jealous of, or competitive with, her husband and cause trouble in their household.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

Here is the part that claims it was not about some love between Mariana and the priest in the pdf:

Now, this is not a tale of clerical wrong-doing, pubescent lust, or even unrequited romance. But over the ensuring year, the girl and the priest talked with greater frequency and confided ever more personal thoughts and feelings, forming a closer friendship than one might expect possible, given their limited free time and the constant scrutiny of the nuns. Most critically to this case, on the day that they first verbalized their friendship, Mariana told him that she would ever after refer to him as “Alexandre.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

14. Problem: There are more problems here: First: He picked up the postcard and could just be making a story out of it. Children have a strong imagination. Second: The mother could have told them about her school when she already believed that the child is a reincarnation or when the children asked her where she was going to school. Third: This again happened a few years later. This smells to me like Cherry Picking to make it plausible for reincarnation:

A few years later, she was moving some papers when a postcard with a picture of her old boarding school fell out of the stack and onto the floor. Kilden picked it up and, pointing to the building where the priest lived, said to his brother, “Look! This is where I lived.” Then pointing to the building where Mariana had boarded, he said, “And that’s where mommy lived down there.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

15. Problem: Here again are a lot of problems. First: Kilden is a boy. A lot of boys like to play soccer. Second he is from Brazil where football is very popular. Third even here in Slovakia a lot of priests like to play football because it is a typical men game:

Marina then asked Kilden what he used to do there. ”I played soccer with all the boys, you silly! You ought to know!” Which, in fact, was a favorite pastime of Father Jonathan.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

Here is the info that football/soccer is the most popular sport in Brazil:

Football is the most popular sport in Brazil. The Brazilian national football team has won the FIFA World Cup tournament a record five times, in 1958, 1962, 1970, 1994 and 2002,[1] and is the only team to succeed in qualifying for every World Cup competition ever held. It is among the favorites to win the trophy every time the competition is scheduled. After Brazil won its 3rd World Cup in 1970, they were awarded the Jules Rimet Trophy permanently. But 365 days before World Cup 2014 begins, Brazil's rank dropped to 22nd, an all-time-low position.[2]

Pelé, arguably the greatest footballer ever, led Brazil to three of those championships and is the top scorer of all time in the sport. All of the leading players in the national teams are prominent in the football world, including Garrincha, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Romário, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, and Kaká in the men's game, and Marta in the women's game. Some of these players can be considered super-stars, achieving celebrity status internationally and signing sports contracts, as well as advertisement and endorsement contracts, in the value of millions of euros.

Football is taken very seriously in Brazil.[3] During the World Cup workers pause from their duties to watch their team in action;[3] even banks shut down three hours before matches to allow their workers time to prepare for the game.[3]

The governing body of football in Brazil is the Brazilian Football Confederation. Brazil will host the 2014 FIFA World Cup.[3]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_in_Brazil

Here we can see that they are from Brazil:

When Mariana Waters was young, she boarded for several years at a Catholic school in Brazil.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 1

16. Problem: Again here are more problems: First a lot of children are fond of rhymes and jokes and I will not again discuss the problem of soccer in a land where soccer is on a god like position. As for John Bosco he is a very well known priest. Also here comes the question if his mother did not wanted to see the priest in the child because she already believed that he is the reincarnation of her dead love.

As Kilden grew older, his memories of being Father Jonathan faded, yet his personality and his likes and dislikes reflected the priests in an impressive number of ways. These included: a habit in speaking in rhymes; a penchant for practical jokes that sometimes go too far; an almost fanatical love of soccer; and an extreme like, almost a worshiping, of the saint John Bosco.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

Some info on John Bosco that he is well known:

Bosco died on 31 January 1888. His funeral was attended by thousands. Soon after there was popular demand to have him canonized.[citation needed] The Archdiocese of Turin investigated and witnesses were called to determine if Bosco was worthy to be declared a saint. The Salesians, Daughters and Cooperators gave supportive testimonies. But many remembered Bosco’s controversies in the 1870s with Archbishop Gastaldi and some others high in the Church hierarchy thought him a loose cannon and a "wheeler-dealer". In the canonization process, testimony was heard about how he went around Gastaldi to get some of his men ordained and about their lack of academic preparation and ecclesiastical decorum. Political cartoons from the 1860s and later showed him shaking money from the pockets of old ladies or going off to America for the same purpose. These cartoons were not forgotten. Opponents of Bosco, including some cardinals, were in a position to block his canonization and many Salesians feared around 1925 that they would succeed.

Pope Pius XI had known Bosco and pushed the cause forward. Bosco was declared blessed in 1929 and canonized on Easter Sunday of 1934, when he was given the title of "Father and Teacher of Youth".[32]

While Bosco had been popularly known as the patron saint of illusionists, on 30 January 2002, Silvio Mantelli petitioned Pope John Paul II to formally declare St. John Bosco the Patron of Stage Magicians.[33] Catholic stage magicians who practice Gospel Magic venerate Bosco by offering free magic shows to underprivileged children on his feast day.[citation needed]

Bosco's work was carried on by his early pupil, collaborator and companion, Michael Rua, who was appointed rector major of the Salesian Society by Pope Leo XIII in 1888.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bosco ... and_legacy

17. Problem: Again this smells like cherry picking because he said it once. Also how can her mother remember all those details? I have a lot of doubt here. Another problem is that we have only the story of the mother. No other verification and the mother already believed that her child is a reincarnation:

Once, when he was twelve, Kilden made a point of how much he hated the name of a particular girl, even though he liked the girl. That name, his mother remembered, was the name of a girl in her school who was especially naughty and used to laugh at the priest.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 2

18. Problem: A very vague statement:

Another time, his father bought home some fruit2 that was native to the area of the boarding school but was not known in any area where Kilden had been raised. Nevertheless Kilden said that he remembered eating such a fruit ”a long time ago.”


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Pages: 2-3

19. Problem: This again has some problems. In the radio it was stated that the priest died in a car accident. It is possible that the information in the radio was incorrect. However how could Mariana remember all this so well because she found out about this error some years after. Another problem is that it was investigated by Mariana herself and besides her we have no information about this:

Of all these facts, the one that stands out as most convincing is 2-year old Kildens statement that, as the priest, he had been killed when a truck hit his motorcycle. This is because the radio announcement of Father Jonathan’s death had clearly stated the cause as a car accident. It was not until several years later that Mariana found out that Father Jonathan was on his way to City Hall when a truck hit his motorcycle and caused his death.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 3

20. Problem: The biggest problem is the time. The original paper was written in 1995. So all we have are memories and anecdotes which cannot be confirmed. We have to just believe those people involved:

Source:
This case was derived from the English version of the book Reborn for Love, by Hernani Guimarães Andrade, Roundtable Publishing, 2010. The original Portuguese version of which was published as Proceeding #7 of the Brazilian Institute for Psychobiophysical Research in 1995. As with the original document, the names used here are pseudonyms to protect the privacy of the people involved and for ease of comprehension by English-speaking readers.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... Friend.pdf
Page: 3

Here is a article about spiritism in Brazil:

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/s ... d_kicking/

Some skeptical information about spiritism:

http://www.skepdic.com/spiritul.html

Conclusion of part 14: I have written under one problem more problems to save the time and space. As for me this whole case is pretty pathetic and sounds like a soap opera. Also another problem is why did the child never said the name of the priest besides Alexandre, if I was a reincarnation I would say more real facts then just some vague stuff. Nothing special to report here besides cherry picking and lot of vague statements and people who want to believe because they were believers in the first place so for me this case is pathetic and does NOT prove reincarnation. This case does NOT even hint reincarnation at all.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:35 pm

Part 15: The Policeman and the Painter

Here is the new case:

1999 The Policeman and the Painter [ID#19] 270 Snow


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... ainter.pdf

Here is what I think the problems are of this case and why I do not believe it. Also he is a skilled writer, so he knows how to sell a story:

1. Problem: This book is from Robert L. Snow as the pdf claims he is a cop but I do not think he is so rational like the pdf wants to make it sound because I found a lot of information on him which shows he is not a scientist or a top to earth man:

Captain Robert L. Snow, Commander of the Homicide Branch of the Indianapolis Police Department, veteran of 30-years on the force, and author of four books on police procedures, thought of himself as a down-to-earth, street-wise, and rational cop.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... ainter.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the information on Snow, he mostly wrote in Playboy, Readers Digest and so on :

Robert Snow worked as a police officer with the Indianapolis Police Department for over 38 years, retiring with the rank of captain. During his time there he served in such capacities as Police Department Executive Officer, Captain of Detectives, and Commander of the Homicide Branch. Robert's wife, Melanie, is also a retired police officer

Robert has also been a publishing writer for almost 30 years. He has had over 100 articles and short stories published in such magazines as Playboy, Reader's Digest, The Writer, the National Enquirer, The Saint Detective Magazine, and many others. In addition, he has had thirteen books published, most of them giving readers the benefit of his knowledge of law enforcement so that they can protect themselves and their loved ones.

Robert is also the author of Looking for Carroll Beckwith, which documents how he was able to historically validate a past lifetime for himself, which he discovered through a past life regression.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=Rob ... e-research

Also this shows that he is a good writer and his main aim could be to sell just a book:

The major influence on Robert's writing life was his mentor: Professor Mary Louise Rea of Indiana University. She saw a hint of talent and nurtured it. Robert received a Bachelors of Arts (BA) from Indiana University, graduating Summa Cum Laude.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=Rob ... e-research

2. Problem: I think he is for the money and fame:

In September 2013, Captain Snow shared his past life story on Katie Couric's national TV show, Katie.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=Rob ... e-research

3. Problem: It was again done thanks to hypnosis and past-life regression. Also he become too quickly astonished. People who experience strange stuff quickly jump to woo conclusions and he had also more previous lives then just this one, here he was a primitive man:

So, when he underwent regression hypnosis – as a result of a colleague’s dare – he felt more than a little foolish and lot like he was wasting his time. He was astonished, therefore, when, after spending an uncomfortable half-hour on a psychologist’s couch, he suddenly found himself standing almost naked on the slope of a mountain. For a brief time, he experienced the life of a primitive man struggling to survive in an ancient forest before dying in a lonely cave.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... ainter.pdf
Page: 1

4. Problem: A lot of these things which are written here are really weak. Nothing is given like a name or place where he lived. All we have is that it was a large city and he spent some time in France. That means he could be from America to Europe and that are a lot of artists to consider in the late 1800s:

Soon afterwards, the scene shifted, and he was standing before an easel, paintbrush in hand, studying a somewhat hunchbacked woman by gaslight. In briefly living several scenes from this life, Snow discovered that the artist resided in a large city in the late 1800s, spent some time in France, was recognized as a talented portrait painter although he didn’t care to paint portraits (he did so only because they paid well), and many other mundane facts. When the hypnosis session was concluded, the image that stuck in Snow’s mind most forcefully was of the painting of the hunchbacked woman in a long grown that he had seen, nearby completed, on the artist’s easel.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... ainter.pdf
Page: 1

5. Problem: Snow himself does not know the name of the artists and tried to find him as we can see on page 1 in the pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... ainter.pdf

6. Problem: He found one portrait that matched this but this could have been just his imagination. He did not draw the image of the portrait he saw in his hypnotic session. What he only had was his memories which are not reliable enough. Therefore when he saw this portrait, he could have created a false memory out of this. This is even in the Skeptic dictionary:

So, when his wife suggested that some time off might be useful, he agreed to a short vacation in New Orleans. And there, in a city he had never before visited, off an obscure street in the French Quarter, in the far corner of the front parlor of a small art gallery, Captain Robert L. Snow came suddenly face to face with artist J. Carroll Beckwith’s portrait of a slightly hunchbacked woman in a long grown. It was perched there on an easel almost exactly as he had last seen it, some 100 years before.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... ainter.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the line from the Skeptic dictionary:

reply: I don't dismiss Dr. Alexander. His story is an interesting one and he has published a book about his experience and how he interprets what he experienced. I have no way of knowing whether he made his story up, knowing that there would be a large audience hungry for validation of their belief in an afterlife, or whether he is sincere and really believes he went to heaven, saw his sister, and has proof that consciousness can exist without a body and brain. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Dr. Alexander is on the up and up, that he really believes what he writes about his near-death experience. What then?

Does his belief prove his conclusions are right? I don't think so. His evidence for "knowing" he wasn't dreaming or hallucinating is that he saw a beautiful woman who gave him three messages and when he saw a picture of his sister he recognized her as the woman who gave him the messages. I can understand his emotional response to what he believed, but I'm sure Dr. Alexander knows how memory works. Memories are constructed, they are not playbacks of recordings. It is quite likely that the picture shown to Dr. Alexander created his memory, a false memory that he had met this woman while in his coma. One of the first things an investigator is taught is not to present a victim with a picture of a suspect because, knowing how memory works, when the victim identifies the one in the picture as her assailant the investigator can't be sure that he has not primed her to construct her memory from the picture.


Taken from: http://www.skepdic.com/comments/ndecom.html

7. Problem: Beckwith is not so unknown:

James Carroll Beckwith (September 23, 1852 – October 24, 1917) was an American landscape, portrait and genre painter whose Impressionist style led to his recognition in the late nineteenth century as a prominent figure in American art.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Carroll_Beckwith

8. Problem: One think is making this story a lot doubtful is that this whole story happened in 1999, so he had only the internet to work with and I think he would find a lot of information:

1999 The Policeman and the Painter [ID#19] 270 Snow


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

Okay this is the pdf. Now I will look onto other links what are saying about this book:

9. Problem: He was able to find the diary of this person and even the scrapbook so that means he could have used them for his book:

After running into this obscure painting, which turned his world upside down because suddenly it was clear that he was proving, rather than disproving, his case, he had the painter's name--James Carroll Beckwith--and from this he was able to find the past-life personality's scrapbook and diary. "Cryptoamnesia" was not a possible explanation in this case, because this painting had not been displayed at any time, so that Capt. Snow could not possibly have seen it and remembered it under hypnosis.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/robertsnow.html

10. Problem: He has passed a polygraph test and? These tests are unreliable and he is a police officer, I think he know how to fake it:

**Sci-Fi Channel's "Proof Positive," which featured Capt. Snow's case in its premiere on October 8, 2004, included giving Capt. Snow a polygraph test specifically asking him if he had prior knowledge of James Carroll Beckwith at the time of his regression session, to which he answered "No." He passed the test.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/robertsnow.html

Here it is even on wikipedia that it is no reliable and people can make it through it with no problem:

Countermeasures[edit]

Several countermeasures designed to pass polygraph tests have been described. Asked how he passed the polygraph test, Aldrich Ames explained that he sought advice from his Soviet handler and received the simple instruction to: "Get a good night's sleep, and rest, and go into the test rested and relaxed. Be nice to the polygraph examiner, develop a rapport, and be cooperative and try to maintain your calm."[25] Additionally, Ames said, "`There's no special magic...Confidence is what does it. Confidence and a friendly relationship with the examiner... rapport, where you smile and you make him think that you like him.[26]

Other suggestions for countermeasures include for the subject to mentally record the control and relevant questions as the examiner reviews them prior to commencing the interrogation. Once the interrogation begins, the subject is then supposed to carefully control their breathing during the relevant questions, and to try to artificially increase their heart rate during the control questions, such as by thinking of something scary or exciting or by pricking themselves with a pointed object concealed somewhere on their body. In this way the results will not show a significant reaction to any of the relevant questions.[27][28]

There are two types of countermeasures: General State and Specific Point.[29]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygraph

Information on this:

http://www.skepdic.com/polygrap.html

11. Problem: Snow appears to become a member of some new age organization and he was on Coast to Coast:

Robert Snow is now a board member of the Institute for the Integration of Science, Intuition and Spirit. Though Snow considers himself not to be a "new-agey" type, his story was part of a Coast to Coast AM show (episode on YouTube in 4 parts: 1, 2, 3, 4)


Taken from: http://www.metafilter.com/116273/A-Case ... ncarnation

That he is a member of this organization can be seen also here:

Police Captain Robert L. Snow, IISIS Reincarnation Research Board


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=Rob ... e-research

12. Problem: A reviewer was also not very impressed by the book itself:

By William G. Schmidt (Farmersville, OH USA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
This review is from: Looking for Carroll Beckwith: The True Stories of a Detective's Search for His Past (Hardcover)
I'm a sucker for books of this sort. I suppose, skeptic that I am, I'm hoping to come across something that offers some real proof. I've read the current crop of the "heaven is real" books and came away cold from all of them. Though this book is billed as offering proof of a past life, I have to say "not so fast".

First, the painting that Snow finds in a New Orleans art museum and says it's the one he was painting while in "hypnotic regression". Why didn't he draw (crudely, even) the painting years before he saw it with enough detail to prove to the reader that it was one and the same? And why didn't he photograph the painting once found? Didn't have a camera? This would be important enough to go out and buy one on the spot.

Second, he calls Beckwith's wife "Amanda" where it is really "Bertha". Would you actually forget the name of your wife? I think not.

The other "proof" is equally nebulous. They are "coincidences" (Snow calls them this) but hardly proof. Had he written down, say, a nine digit number (a bank account number perhaps) that later appeared in Beckwith's diary, I'd be convinced. Hard, fast, unequivocal evidence. Facts that would hold up in court.

And why would reincarnation be true anyway? Aren't there enough "souls" to go around that we can each have a "new" one? Could it be that there aren't souls at all but we are merely nature's product?

While I found the book highly entertaining (I'm quite happy I read it and would even recommend it to anyone who likes this sort of thing), I agree with what Carl Sagan said many years ago: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

They're just not here.


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/Looking-Carroll-B ... Descending

13. Problem: This case was already discussed here and some people pointed good skeptical stuff:

http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... -life.html

http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... souls.html


14. Problem: Here are the statements which Snow had during his regression many of them are very vague besides the name Jack to some degree(although the artist name was James Carroll Beckwith and not Jack), and that he died on 1917 and the portrait he was seeing:

One very clear memory involved him painting a portrait of a hunchback woman. Captain Snow vividly remembered the experience, of the paint strokes that were used to create that painting, and even of his questioning of why someone with a pronounced deformity would want a portrait. A summary of the most specific regression memories is provided below:

1. He painted a portrait of a hunchbacked woman

2. He painted portraits to make money but hated painting portrait

3. He used the name “Jack”

4. He used a walking stick

5. His wife and he spent time in France

6. His wife could not have children

7. They were desperate for money and he argued with his wife about money

8. Despite their problems with money and inability to have children, their marriage was happy

9. He had an art studio with a bank of skylight and a row of windows

10. He once stayed at an estate with large gardens

11. A female relative died of a blood clot

12.He died in a large city with tall buildings in the fall of the year 1917


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=sem ... -past-life

15. Problem: Snow had the diaries and he could even use them to validate his belief but I doubt that Snow completely wrote down all of his 30 points on a paper:

Snow later found that Beckwith’s last exhibition was in 1911, well before Snow was even born. Snow also found that though Beckwith wasn’t a famous artist, he was a good administrator, as is Bob. Beckwith became the President of the National Academy of Design, in New York. The Academy had kept Beckwith’s diaries, as well as an unpublished autobiography.

From Beckwith’s diary and autobiography, Snow was eventually able to validate all thirty of the specific memories from his regression, including the twelve specific items listed above.


Taken from:
http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=sem ... -past-life

Its is even written in the text that Snow had only his memories and wrote nothing down because he just remembered them. Memories are a awful thing, they cannot be trusted for sure:

Eventually and much to his shock, Captain Snow experienced powerful and very clear past-life memories during the regression. Captain Snow has related that his perception of the past-life events were more clear than waking consciousness. He recalled several different lifetimes, but the one that was most prominent was as a portrait painter in what seemed to be the 19th century. Captain Snow remembered 30 specific details regarding this lifetime as an artist.


Taken from:
http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=sem ... -past-life

16. Problem: Snow had also other lifetimes during his regression therapy:

Eventually and much to his shock, Captain Snow experienced powerful and very clear past-life memories during the regression. Captain Snow has related that his perception of the past-life events were more clear than waking consciousness. He recalled several different lifetimes, but the one that was most prominent was as a portrait painter in what seemed to be the 19th century. Captain Snow remembered 30 specific details regarding this lifetime as an artist.


Taken from:
http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=sem ... -past-life

17. Problem: Snow became a real believer:

Interestingly, Captain Snow was not aware of a physical resemblance that exists between himself and Carroll Beckwith. When I met first Captain Snow at a meeting of the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies (IARRT) in September 2000, I offered to take his picture and compare it with Beckwith’s. I knew from experience that these comparisons are best done by lining up images side by side in the same pose.

In the image comparison, Beckwith is on the left side and Captain Snow is on the right side. Though Captain Snow is a bit older and heavier in the photograph than Beckwith was at the time of the portrait, facial architecture is very similar between the two. Both even chose to maintain a similar mustache.

Captain Snow’s case demonstrates a characteristic phenomenon that occurs when one becomes concretely aware of a specific past lifetime. The past-life information often triggers a traumatic reaction in a person, followed by a period of integration. When one faces the reality of reincarnation, a reevaluation of how one views the world is required.

Over a lifetime, we all develop a unique way of understanding the world. That belief system may involve a spiritual aspect to life, or an atheistic view may be held. We usually come to our philosophical understanding of the world in our twenties and we generally are resistant to changing our point of view.


Taken from:
http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=sem ... -past-life

18. Problem: Snow was on a meeting of IARRT a organization that ceased to exist:

Interestingly, Captain Snow was not aware of a physical resemblance that exists between himself and Carroll Beckwith. When I met first Captain Snow at a meeting of the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies (IARRT) in September 2000, I offered to take his picture and compare it with Beckwith’s. I knew from experience that these comparisons are best done by lining up images side by side in the same pose.


Taken from:
http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=sem ... -past-life

IAART ceased to exist and I think the reason is that it failed to prove reincarnation:

IARRT Is Now Closed

The International Association for Regression Research and Therapies is now closed.
We are so grateful for the Association, the sharing and learning, the friendships, and the knowing that our work has been a
Light to the World.
Thank you for all your love and support.


Taken from: http://www.iarrt.org/

Also here:

IARRT stands for International Association for Regression Research & Therapies, Inc. Founded as APRT - Association for Past Life Research and Therapies - IARRT was a non-profit organization dedicated to increasing the acceptance and use of professional and responsible past-life regression through education, association and research. It was an international organization of professional, student, and supporting members across the United States, Canada and other countries world wide.

Past Life Regression Therapy is considered one of the most powerful tools available for transformation in the fields of integrative medicine, psychology and self awareness.

The effectiveness of past life recall created a demand for therapists skilled in regression techniques. In 1980, a group of more than 50 past life therapists convened to create the Association for Past Life Research and Therapies (later renamed the International Association for Regression Research and Therapies, Inc.). The association has become an internationally recognized organization with members holding conferences throughout the world.

IARRT closed its doors and ceased active operations in January, 2014.


Taken from: http://www.iarrt.org/about.html

19. Problem: This shows that Snow is either emotional or that he really believes in his woo and his suggestion got the better of him:

Captain Snow's Knee Shakes when He visits his Own Past Life Grave

In the image provided to the right, Robert Snow visits the grave of Carroll Beckwith, that is, Snow is visiting his own grave from a past lifetime. Snow writes in his book that at Beckwith's grave, his left knee started to shake uncontrollably and he became drenched in sweat, much like when he was a rookie cop in a life threatening situation. Snow has mused that in the line of duty, he has been shot at and suspects have tried to stab him, but nothing has unnerved him as much as discovering a past lifetime.


Taken from: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=sem ... -past-life

20. Problem: Here are the listed statements a lot of them are vague and some are not accurate, for example the year 1917 and are open to interpretation:

Here they are as listed in the book:

1.Did he paint the portrait of a woman with a hunchback?

2.Did he die in 1917? (this item isn't really accurate, he saw the date in his regression, but didn't know what it referred to)

3.Did he die in the fall of the year? (this item is based on a scene he saw right after beckwith's death which suggested it was fall)

4.Did he die in a large city?

5.Did he live during the nineteenth century?

6.Did he and his wife spend some time in France?

7.Did he win awards or recieve recognition for some of his paintings?
Was he ever at a celebration where many people were congratulating him?

8.Did he paint portraits but hate doing it?

9.Did he paint portraits because he needed the money?

10.Were his paintings full of sun and bright colors?

11.Did he use the name Jack?

12.Did he use a walking stick?

13.Did he drink wine?

14.Did he express an almost desperate need for money?

15.In my regression, I saw myself arguing with someone about poor lighting
for one of my paintings.
Can I find an incident of Beckwith doing this?

16.If Beckwith was married, did his wife's name sound something like Amanda?

17.Did Beckwith and his wife argue about money?

18.Did his wife play the piano?

19.Did Beckwith and his wife have children?

20.I said during the regression that my wife could not have children.
Could Beckwith's?

21.In my regression, I said my wife and I were happy, even though we didn't
have children.
Were the Beckwith's happy?

22.In my regression, I saw myself working in a studio with lots of windows
and skylights.
Did Beckwith work this way?

23.Did beckwith ever visit or stay at an estate with a large garden?

24.Did a woman very important to Beckwith die of a blood clot?

25.I describe my studio as being filled with unsold paintings, was Beckwith's?

26.I said, "I'm a good painter, but it took so long".
Did Beckwith feel at the end of his life that he was finally successful or a good painter?

27.I said during the regression, "I'm happy when I paint".
Was Beckwith?

28.In my regression I said "I don't think they liked me, but they liked my
painting"
Was this true?


Taken from: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... -life.html

Conclusion of part 15: First I was thinking that this case would be much more interesting and that it would prove something because of the strong claims. However after reading more of it I became suspicious. Also Snow can write books therefore I think he just wanted to sell a book and nothing more. I wrote in this case too little because it was already discussed elsewhere and mostly it’s the same old, same old which was already discussed. Also I think that Snow only wanted to sell a book and nothing more. He became a believer in this and soon became a advocate of this kind of woo. This case again for me does NOT prove reincarnation. It also does NOT hint reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:25 pm

Part 16: Dying To Meet Each Other

Here is the new case:

2000 Dying To Meet Each Other [ID#18] 264 Newton


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf

Now I will write why I do not believe this and why I am skeptical of these claims and what problem I have found:

1. Problem: The first problem is that its again only hypnotic regression. Again a very vague and pathetic technique which was discussed above and even some people like Ian Stevenson does not believe in them:

While almost all regression therapists have concentrated on revealing the previos earth-lives of their subjects, Michael Newton, Ph.D., has chosen a different, and apparently more difficult, route that makes him a pioneer among pioneers. Dr. Newton has developed and implemented regression techniques that allow his subjects to remember the time spent between lives – the time spent in “heaven”. For this has sprung a new branch of regression therapy called LBL, for Life-Between-Lives therapy.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: Even when this therapy should be somehow new. It is not because its only hypnotherapy. That these people claim lives between lives is nothing new or shocking. People under hypnotherapy even claim alien abductions so we have the same:

While almost all regression therapists have concentrated on revealing the previos earth-lives of their subjects, Michael Newton, Ph.D., has chosen a different, and apparently more difficult, route that makes him a pioneer among pioneers. Dr. Newton has developed and implemented regression techniques that allow his subjects to remember the time spent between lives – the time spent in “heaven”. For this has sprung a new branch of regression therapy called LBL, for Life-Between-Lives therapy.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf
Page: 1

Examples that people under hypnosis also claim that they were abducted are here:

Sometimes abductees experience the sensation of being both human and alien at the same time, a phenomenon Joe Nyman calls "dual reference."[7] Dual reference emerges in hypnotic regression sessions wherein the subject reports pre-birth or pre-life existence as one of the same species as those he or she would later report abducting them.[7] When presenting a paper on the subject to the 1992 MIT alien abduction conference several investigators in attendance accused him of leading his subjects in his hypnotic regression sessions, possibly encouraging them to confabulate.[7] However, some of Nyman's subjects disagreed with the accusations and defended him.[7]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction_claimants

Or here:

The Hill’s story has been repeated many times. There is a period of amnesia following the alleged encounter. There is then usually a session of hypnosis, counseling or psychotherapy during which comes the recollection of having been abducted and experimented on. The only variation in the abductees’ stories is that some claim to have had implants put in them and many claim to have scars and marks on their bodies put there by aliens. All describe the aliens in much the same way.

Whitley Strieber, who has written several books about his alleged abductions, came to the realization he had been abducted by aliens after psychotherapy and hypnosis. Strieber claims that he saw aliens set his roof on fire. He says he has traveled to distant planets and back during the night. He wants us to believe that he and his family alone can see the aliens and their spacecraft while others see nothing. Strieber comes off as a very disturbed person, but one who really believes he sees and is being harassed by aliens. He describes his feelings precisely enough to warrant believing he was in a very agitated psychological state prior to his visitation by aliens. A person in this heightened state of anxiety will be prone to hysteria and be especially vulnerable to radically changing behavior or belief patterns. When Strieber was having an anxiety attack he consulted his analyst, Robert Klein, and Budd Hopkins, an alien abduction researcher. Then, under hypnosis, Strieber started recalling the horrible aliens and their visitations.


Taken from: http://www.skepdic.com/aliens.html

Here we have also the criticism about hypnosis and aliens. This same can be stated also here because I think that mostly people who went to Dr. Newton were believers or people with a strong fantasy like mind:

However, hypnosis and other suggestive means are often used to access memories of abduction. Hypnosis is not only an unreliable method of gaining access to accurate memories, it is a method that can be very easily used to implant memories. Furthermore, it is known that people who believe they have been abducted by aliens are very fantasy prone. Being fantasy-prone is not an abnormality, if abnormality is defined in terms of minority belief or behavior.


Taken from: http://www.skepdic.com/aliens.html

3. Problem: Even Scientology uses hypnosis in its subjects which create false visions:

Margery Wakefield, in her book Understanding Scientology, claimed that the extremely repetitive questioning done during drills in Scientology auditing was a form of hypnosis. She claimed that these drills are sometimes done for several hours at a time, "until the preclear can do it without delay, without protest, without apathy, but with cheerfulness." [5]

A 2005 article in the Miami Herald quoted Scientology critic David Touretzky as saying "It's very clear that what they're doing is putting people into a light trance".[7]

A 2010 article in Ynet quoted Dr. Alex Aviv, Chairman of the Advisory Committee on the Law of Hypnosis to the Israeli Ministry of Health as saying (in reference to Scientology) "they restore early memories, usually of traumas, when in some cases this is a false memory. When a patient 'remembers' a false event like that via a hypnotic process - the event can become real for him".[8]

Volney Mathison, an early collaborator with Hubbard who designed the precursor machine to the e-meter, remarked in 1964, "I decry the doings of trivial fakers, such as scientologists and the like, who glibly denounce hypnosis and then try covertly to use it in their phony systems".[9]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_hypnosis

4. Problem: This whole stuff is done by Dr. Newton who is a hard believer, wrote three books about this and even founded a society:

When Dr. Michael Newton, www.spiritualregression.org, a certified Master Hypnotherapist, began regressing his clients back in time to access their memories of former lives, he stumbled onto a discovery of enormous proportions: that it is possible to see into the spirit world through the mind's eye of subjects who are in a hypnotized or superconscious state; and that clients in this altered state were able to tell him what their soul was doing between lives on Earth. His book, Journey of Souls, presents ten years of his research and insights to help people understand the purpose behind their life choices, and how and why our soul - and the souls of those we love - lives eternally. His follow-up book, Destiny of Souls, is highly recommended as well. Also, you can check out Michael Newton's touring schedule. In May of 2004, Dr. Newton's new book entitled Life Between Lives: Hypnotherapy for Spiritual Regression was released. Dr. Newton is also the founder of The Society for Spiritual Regression. The following is an excerpt from Journey of Souls describing the nature of the afterlife.


Taken from: http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

5. Problem: He is making a good living out of it. I clicked on his site and he has even training courses about this and the required reading is great(sarcasm). To note his site is now called the The Newton Institute:

TNI Training and Membership
List of Upcoming Trainings


LBL Hypnotherapy Training Application


Becoming a TNI-certified LBL practitioner

If you feel drawn towards becoming a Life Between Lives™ Hypnotherapy practitioner you are almost certainly listening and responding to your soul’s calling – and its own quest for growth. TNI LBL trainings are the only LBL training courses developed, authorized and sanctioned by Michael Newton, the Founder of TNI who created The Newton Method of LBL hypnotherapy. Life Between Lives™ Hypnotherapy (LBL) is a registered trademark and the use of this term to describe or advertise services offered is only allowed by those who are certified with TNI. The training process is inspiring, intensive and fulfilling!
Step by Step to eligibility for TNI training
1. Become a qualified and experienced hypnotherapy practitioner

Only qualified and experienced hypnosis practitioners will be accepted for TNI LBL training. Once you are qualified in hypnotherapy and have the required clinical hypnosis experience with clients (see prerequisites) you should focus on training and gaining experience in hypnotic regression techniques… See Calendar of Events for prerequisite training options.
2. Age Regression training and experience

Study, qualify and gain clinical experience in Age Regression (hypnotic regression to formative events in this life), helping your clients uncover the source of issues in their current lives; this includes confident use of therapeutic interventions to release trauma of different types… See Calendar of Events for prerequisite training options.
3. Past Life Regression training and experience

Formal hypnosis-based training and field experience is required in Past Life Regression. Here you will learn to guide your clients back to key experiences in past lives in order that they can understand, evaluate and place in perspective the relevance of those past experiences by integration into their current lives… See Calendar of Events for prerequisite training options.
4. Check the TNI LBL training calendar

Find TNI’s scheduled training events for each year, and formally apply to register for one of our training courses. Details on how to register for current trainings are given on the LBL Training calendar page. See Calendar of Events for LBL training options.

Once accepted you can progress to working towards certification with TNI as a Life Between Lives™ practitioner, facilitating clients’ journeys to the inter-life in order to awaken an understanding of their immortal identity. It is a fulfilling, rewarding and humbling experience to facilitate such sessions and as LBL practitioners, it is a sacred and fulfilling offer of service to our clients as they learn, discover and remember fascinating aspects of their soul lineage.
Prerequisites

The practical requirements for successful registration to take part in an LBL™ Training are as follows:
A minimum of 200 hours’ formal hypnotherapy education; encompassing age regression with use of trauma release by therapeutic intervention and past life regression techniques.
A minimum of 2 years’ experience as a hypnotherapy practitioner.
Formal training or certification in using hypnotherapy to facilitate Past Life Regression (PLR) – and a minimum of 20 completed PLR sessions with clients.
Regression to the Womb (in utero) training as part of this process is useful but can be provided by TNI as an adjunct to the LBL training itself. Experience of past life regression using in utero regression techniques to highlight the importance of this part of any LBL session is included in TNI’s formal LBL training course.
Required Reading: “Journey of Souls”, “Destiny of Souls” and “Life Between Lives™ Hypnotherapy” are required reading for this course, all by Dr. Michael Newton. Students may also enjoy reading “Memories of the Afterlife”, a compilation of LBL Cases conducted by Newton Institute LBL Therapists and edited by Dr. Newton.
All applications must be supported by documentation such as copies of relevant certificates of qualification. Full details of requirements will be supplied on your Registration form.


Taken from: http://newtoninstitute.org/become-an-lb ... -training/

6. Problem: I think he did it for fame and money:

Dr. Newton is the author of three best selling books, Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (1994), Destiny of Souls: New Case Studies of Life Between Lives (2000) and Life Between Lives Hypnotherapy (2004) published by Llewellyn. These books have been translated into over 25 languages. In 2001 his second book was awarded “Metaphysical Book of the Year” by the independent publishers association at their annual Book Exposition of America meeting. He is also the editor of the latest release Memories of the Afterlife (2009), which includes intriguing case studies written by members of TNI’s growing global network of Life Between Lives Therapists.

Dr. Newton has appeared on numerous radio and television shows and was an active speaker on the lecture circuit before his retirement, sharing his discoveries and beliefs about our immortal life in the spirit world. He is now retired from active practice, devoting his time to TNI, as an advisor to the Board and our training programs.


Taken from: http://newtoninstitute.org/about-tni/dr-michael-newton/

7. Problem: The belief of Dr. Newton smells like a Hollywood movie or some kind of mythology which was heard millions of time over:

There are souls who have been so severely damaged they are detached from the mainstream of souls going back to a spiritual home base after death. Compared to all returning entities, the number of these abnormal souls is not large.

There are two types of displaced souls: those who do not accept the fact their physical body is dead and fight returning to the spirit world for reasons of personal anguish, and those souls who have been subverted by, or had complicity with, criminal abnormalities in a human body. The first type we call ghosts. These spirits refuse to go home after physical death and often have unpleasant influences on those of us who would like to finish out our human lives in peace. These displaced souls are sometimes falsely called demonic spirits because they are accused of invading the minds of people with harmful intent.

Those subverted by criminal abnormalities do undergo separation in the spirit world, and this happens at the time of their orientation with guides. They are not activated along the same travel routes as other souls and will go into seclusion upon reentering the spirit world. These souls don't appear to mix with other entities in the conventional manner for quite a while.

Because wrong-doing takes so many forms on Earth, spiritual instruction and the type of isolation used is varied for each soul. The nature of these variations apparently is evaluated during orientation at the end of each life. The relative time of seclusion and reindoctrination is not consistent either. For instance, I have had reports about maladjusted spirits who have returned back to Earth directly after a period of seclusion in order to expunge themselves as soon as possible by a good incarnated performance.

All souls, regardless of experience, eventually arrive at a central port in the spirit world which I call the staging area. Once past the orientation station there seems to be no further travel detours for anyone entering this space of the spirit world. Apparently, large numbers of returning souls are conveyed in a spiritual form of mass transit. Spirits are brought in, collected, and then projected out to their proper final destinations similar to a central terminal of a metropolitan airport that has the capacity to fly people out in any direction. The most outstanding characteristic of this world is a continuous feeling of a powerful mental force directing everything in uncanny harmony. People say this is a place of pure thought.

After souls arrive back into their soul groups, they are summoned to appear before a Council of Elders. While the Council is not prosecutorial, they do engage in direct examination of a soul's activities before returning them to their groups.

Group placement is determined by soul level. After physical death, a soul's journey back home ends with debarkation into the space reserved for their own colony, as long as they are not a very young soul or isolated for other reasons. The souls represented in these cluster groups are intimate old friends who have the same awareness level. Members of the same cluster group are closely united for all eternity. These tightly-knit clusters are often composed of like-minded souls with common objectives which they continually work out with each other. Usually they choose lives together as relatives and close friends during their incarnations on Earth.


Taken from: http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

8. Problem: He even claims there are categories of souls which contradicts other beliefs:

The Levels of Soul Groupings

a. The Beginner Soul

There are two types of beginner souls: souls who are truly young in terms of exposure to an existence out of the spirit world, and souls who have been reincarnating on Earth for a long period of relative time, but still remain immature.

I believe almost three-quarters of all souls who inhabit human bodies on Earth today are still in the early stages of development. Souls end their incarnation on Earth when they reach full maturity.


Taken from: http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

b. The Intermediate Soul

Once our souls advance into the intermediate ranges of development, group cluster activity is considerably reduced. This does not mean we return to the kind of isolation that occurs with novice souls. Souls evolving into the middle development level have less association with primary groups because they have acquired the maturity and experience for operating more independently. These souls are also reducing the number of their incarnations.


Taken from: http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

c. The Advanced Soul

I believe that people on Earth who possess souls which are both old and highly advanced are scarce. A person whose maturity is this high doesn't seek out a regression therapist to resolve life-plan conflicts. In most cases, they are here as incarnated guides. Having mastered the fundamental issues most of us wrestle with daily, the advanced soul is more interested in making small refinements toward specific tasks.

We may recognize them when they appear as public figures, such as Mother Teresa; however, it is more usual for the advanced soul to go about their good works in a quiet, unassuming manner. Without displaying self-indulgence, their fulfillment comes from improving the lives of other people. They focus less on institutional matters and more on enhancing individual human values.


Taken from: http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

9. Problem: He believes in Mother Teresa that she was a good person and a symbol of a Advanced soul. Oh boy:

We may recognize them when they appear as public figures, such as Mother Teresa; however, it is more usual for the advanced soul to go about their good works in a quiet, unassuming manner. Without displaying self-indulgence, their fulfillment comes from improving the lives of other people. They focus less on institutional matters and more on enhancing individual human values.


Taken from: http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

10. Problem: There is a big problem with his bio:

I've long been concerned that the only background information we have about Michael Newton seems to come from Newton himself, or his institute. While it's generally fairly easy to find the CVs and journal publications of credible researchers in parapsychology and related fields (eg Dr. Ian Stevenson, Dr. Jim B. Tucker), this doesn't seem to be the case with Michael Newton. As far as I can tell, he's a complete unknown outside of his circle.

I'm not alone in voicing my concerns about him. For instance, on the Ex Scientologist Message Board someone asked the question, "Any body ever get in contact with the Newton foundation people?" A user named "boatswain" responded with this:

Life Between Lives — Dr. Michael Newton - Page 95

Quote: I contacted them multiple times to try and verify Newton's bio and have received exactly zero response. As a result, there is no validation of his very vague bio and credentials. I don't believe any credible third parties have endorsed his research either, and I have not heard of his thousands of former patients stepping forward to validate the stories he tells in his books.

In my humble opinion, given the lack of objective validation, the various blunders in the books and the consistent authorial voice, it's clear that Newton's novels are fiction, dressed nicely to sell to the New Age crowd. It's like a cut rate Carlos Castenada without the anthropological research.

I'm surprised that nobody has talked about the science fiction elements of the books in any detail. Too close to LRH for comfort?

Can anyone else answer the following questions?

Where and when did Newton get his degree?

What was the higher educational institution that he worked at?

When and where was his private practice in Los Angeles? There are no phone records for a Dr Michael Newton in LA during the time period mentioned in the books according to Ancestry.com, which has complete records.

When was he a member of the ACA? He's not listed today.

Is there any third party validation from his thousands of clients?

Doug


Taken from: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... ton-3.html

11. Problem: His books are for the New Age crowd:

Publishers Weekly in their review said that this book was "a rich volume, chock-full of interviews and fascinating first-person narratives, this book is nonetheless not for the uninitiated; Newton sometimes fails to explain his terminology, so readers who do not know much about "lives between lives" may feel lost. More informed readers, however, will find this a feast, and Newton a charming host."[2] Destiny of Souls won the Independent Publisher Book Award in 2001 in the New Age category,[3] one of 49 categories of this annual award.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_of_Souls

12. Problem: There are also fairies, elves in it. Wow:

In his second book, and through what he calls research into the afterlife, Michael Newton claims to have documented the results of his clinical work in spiritual hypnotherapy. These are presented in a form of case studies and Newton claims that they uncover the hidden aspects of the spirit world.[1] Newton also discusses "the nonhuman manifestations of spirits on Earth, including elves, fairies and ghosts".[2]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_of_Souls

13. Problem: He developed the technique himself. This can be wrong because we had other people who claimed this like L. Ron Hubbard the founder of Scientology:

Destiny of Souls is the second book by Michael Newton, published in 2000. Michael Newton is hypnotherapist who says that he has developed his own "age regression" technique.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_of_Souls

Here it is written about Hubbard:

Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was known to his associates in the late 1940s as a talented hypnotist.[1] During this period, he worked in Hollywood posing as a swami.[2] The Church says that Hubbard's experience with hypnosis led him to create Dianetics as an alternative means to solve man's problems.[3]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_hypnosis

Now I will return to the pdf.

14. Problem: There is no proof of a afterlife beyond the stories of those people:

LBL patients paint remarkably consistent pictures of the afterlife, pictures that neither reflect their religious upbringing nor fulfill their prior expectations. It is difficult to imagine any explanation for this universally agreement except that the memories are what they claim to be- accurate portrayals of a real afterlife. Beyond their inner consistency, we have, of course, no way of confirming the description of lives between lives.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf
Page: 1

15. Problem: This reincarnation case had a weakness because they first met on a chat where they were discussing things about life and death. Therefore they were believers. Another problem is that they exchanged a lot of information in the chat and wanted to know if they are reincarnated. Dale had even read Newton’s book. So they just wanted to have their beliefs confirmed, what they already believed in, that thanks to so much things in common they are reincarnated:

One of Newton’s cases is especially evidential of reincarnation in that it involves two living subjects relating the same story of a pst-life incident from two different perspectives. Maureen and Dale were born near San Francisco, California, almost at the same time; but of they were supposed to live together the fates must have screwed up somehow because they took 50 years to find one another. By then, they were living 3,000 miles apart and had to make their connection in a computer chat room; a room dedicated, appropriately enough, to discussions of life after death. Almost immediately they felt a strong affinity for each other and found that they had an unusual amount in common. Dale had read Dr. Newtons first book and he and Maureen agreed to undergo regression sessions to see if they were friends or lovers in the past.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf
Page: 1

16. Problem: Here are some problems not only one. First: The past life which is reported comes from 1923 and the case was reported in 2000. Second problem is that the whole description is very vague and typical for a Hollywood movie or a lot of car accidents or car disasters. Third problem: Is that Maureen is from San Francisco:

During Maureen’s session, she relived being a woman named Samantha who is getting ready for her 18th birthday party in 1923. She lives near San Francisco, and the party is in a downtown mansion. Whe she is moved forward to the party, she tells of dancing with her boyfriend Rick and drinking the liquir that he and his friends smuggled into the party. Rick suggests that they need to be alone and so they sneak out of the house by a side entrance and drive away in his red roadster. For awhile, she feels the warm wind in her hair and the joy of being with the man she loves. But the man she loves pays more attention to the woman he loves then to the road ahead. He is driving too fast and, when they encounter a sharp curve on the Pacific Coast Road the car goes over a cliff. When Dale was regressed, he told the same story from Rick’s point of view, the only difference being that his soul abandons his body as the roadster falls through the air, whereas Samantha tells of dying in the cold ocean water.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf
Page: 1

That this was reported in 2000 we can see here:

2000 Dying To Meet Each Other [ID#18] 264 Newton


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

Here can we see that Maureen is from San Francisco and also Dale:

One of Newton’s cases is especially evidential of reincarnation in that it involves two living subjects relating the same story of a pst-life incident from two different perspectives. Maureen and Dale were born near San Francisco, California, almost at the same time; but of they were supposed to live together the fates must have screwed up somehow because they took 50 years to find one another.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf
Page: 1

17. Problem: Here are many problems not just one. First they knew each other from the chat. Second they met and talked with each other as seen in the text. Third the pdf makes a claim that they were not regressed privately and individauly like it was a error but if this is true, the another case is wrong the case of the reincarnation of Milboro from Dr. Rieder which is also discussed in this thread because she done a “mass-hypnosis” on subjects:

In follow-up discussions, both Dale and Maureen spoke of being strangely uncomfortable driving on certain roads around San Francisco. It is important to note, however, that neither Dale nor Maureen, prior to their sessions, had any idea of being Rick and Samantha or of dying in an auto accident. Dale had only flown out to meet Maureen for the first time in person on the day before the met with Dr. Netwon. Each was regressed individually and privately and they did not discuss their experiences in the interim between Maureen’s session and Dale’s.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf
Pages: 1-2

The paragraph that they met on a chat and talked with each other:

One of Newton’s cases is especially evidential of reincarnation in that it involves two living subjects relating the same story of a pst-life incident from two different perspectives. Maureen and Dale were born near San Francisco, California, almost at the same time; but of they were supposed to live together the fates must have screwed up somehow because they took 50 years to find one another. By then, they were living 3,000 miles apart and had to make their connection in a computer chat room; a room dedicated, appropriately enough, to discussions of life after death. Almost immediately they felt a strong affinity for each other and found that they had an unusual amount in common. Dale had read Dr. Newtons first book and he and Maureen agreed to undergo regression sessions to see if they were friends or lovers in the past.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_8-25/ ... o-meet.pdf
Page: 1

Here is the case of Millboro and mass hypnosis:

Dr. Rieder's "Millboro" study began when one of her patients remembered the name of a man, "John Ashford". The next time the patient was hypnotized, Dr. Rieder asked her, "Who is John Ashford?" The woman answered immediately, "He's my husband."

Dr. Rieder knew that her husband in this life wasn't named John Ashford, and from this small beginning came a study involving a group of more than 20 people who had detailed memories, while under hypnosis, of living in the town of Millboro, Virginia, USA during the Civil War (most of these people currently lived in California, a long way from Virginia, and had never heard of or visited Millboro).

Dr. Rieder did something very unusual with these people--she hypnotized them together. Once in a deep hypnotic trance, they began relating to each other as though they were their former personalities--joking, laughing, gossiping, and even arguing--feeling toward each other the way they felt before, remembering private events and details.


Taken from: http://www.ial.goldthread.com/kidspage/rieder.html

That’s the pdf. I will now look onto other web-sites about this guy, Dr. Newton:

18. Problem: Another person is also skeptical of this and I will write several things of this which I found interesting:

1. He writes about the background of Dr. Newton:

Michael Newton is a hypnotherapist, meaning his expertise as a therapist is hypnotizing people to help them recall and resolve hidden memories (childhood abuse, for instance) that are resurfacing as adult problems. As he developed a technique for leading people into deeper and deeper trance states, he discovered that with some particularly sensitive people he was able to get beyond their ego bodies and converse with their immortal souls through past life regression. (If you don't think you have an immortal soul that has reincarnated in numerous bodies, you might as well stop reading right now. If, however, you think you do have an immortal soul, why shouldn't it be able to speak for itself when your physical body is placed in a deep enough trance?) As he developed his technique further, instead of focusing on just past lives he began asking them to describe the time between lives - after death but before incarnating in a new body. Through thousands of such sessions over 30 years of work, he pieced together a view of the spirit world that is very specific and revealing.


Taken from: http://nocturnal-mind.blogspot.sk/2010/ ... fraud.html

2. The problem is that the skeptic himself here is also a believer but he claims that Near-death experiences are New Age mumbo-jumbo:

New Age mumbo-jumbo
I don't generally pay much attention to people who relate near-death or past-life experiences because, frankly, it all sounds like New Age mumbo-jumbo to me. Near-death experiences (lights at the end of tunnels and such) are by definition NEAR death rather than the real thing, so any observations from someone who "came back" might be based on their physical body reacting to trauma. Past-life memories make a certain amount of sense to me since I believe in reincarnation, but they are also susceptible to current-life egos - like all those people who insist they were someone famous like Cleopatra.
This, however, is something different. If Newton is telling the truth, thousands of people from very different spiritual backgrounds - from atheists to religious zealots - all give about the SAME DETAILS under deep hypnosis of what it is like in the spirit world. These details are far, far too specific to be explained as mere ego fantasies or coincidences, and since he claims to ask non-directive open-ended questions during hypnosis, the consistency of what he claims they report is startling. It is the CONSISTENCY OF DETAILS reported by thousands of very different clients that is most persuasive for me.


Taken from: http://nocturnal-mind.blogspot.sk/2010/ ... fraud.html

3. Problem: We only have the transcripts of the sessions in the book. The book published by Dr. Newton himself. There is nothing more we can address to:

Fact or fraud?
Since his books include actual transcripts of hypnotherapy sessions where clients are reporting details regarding the spirit world, what it comes down to is that either these transcripts are real or he's just making the whole thing up. If this is all a hoax, it is an extremely elaborate one that he has somehow managed to carry on for decades. His books have sold around half a million copies over the last 13 years, so critics have had plenty of time and reason to expose any fraud. Given the thousands of people he claims to have personally had sessions with since the 1970s, and given that he has trained other hypnotherapists who have used his technique on countless more people, it seems unlikely to me that he would be able to maintain such an elaborate hoax over such a long period of time without someone, somewhere exposing any fraud. Although he certainly has his critics, I haven't been able to find anything that actually debunks his research claims. IF YOU CAN, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. Until that point, I'm inclined to put my SKEPTICISM (see below) aside and assume that the session transcripts he includes in his books really happened.


Taken from: http://nocturnal-mind.blogspot.sk/2010/ ... fraud.html

4. Problem: Here is his skepticism:

My SKEPTICISM is based on the following:

1) As a PhD, Newton is very familiar with the rigors of academic research, so what's with the total lack of substantiation for his claims? If this isn't a hoax, his findings are monumental and deserve academic validation - independent reviews of session tapes, for example. If he can include transcripts in his books, he should be able to make the original tapes available for peer review. Anecdotal evidence is interesting for the casual reader, but doesn't really validate his claims. On the other hand - perhaps he just isn't interested in convincing skeptical academics.

2) As a playwright myself who has struggled with writing dialogue, his transcripts don't sound very real. Perhaps that's because the subjects are in deep hypnosis, or because at the soul-level we all sound alike, or because he has edited the transcripts to make them more readable without altering the actual content - or perhaps it's because he's making the transcripts up as he goes.

3) Hypnotism is hardly new - some say it has been commonly practiced by Shamans and healers for thousands of years - so why is he the first person to tell us this specific information? Granted, he claims to have developed hypnosis techniques that allow him to go deeper into the trance state than normal, but even this doesn't sound all that unique. Given how exacting his information is, why haven't these very specific details found their way into numerous tribal mythologies? On the other hand, New Age enthusiasts insist that THIS is the most critical time in human history, and that we should expect spiritual messengers to be among us to lead us into the "new age" of our development.

4) Despite the above reservations, the way he describes the spirit world sounds very convincing to me. Ironically, it is SO convincing that it makes me suspicious. If I were to create a hoax regarding the spirit world, his multi-tiered system of non-judgmental educational development is about how I would have designed it myself. In other words, I am suspicious of being seduced by a vision that is so similar to what I would have created if I had been writing fiction. I realize this is a double-bind, but so be it.


Taken from: http://nocturnal-mind.blogspot.sk/2010/ ... fraud.html

It can also be found here: http://www.amazon.com/review/R2AUKF4T4HVG60

19. Problem: There are other reviews which are not very satisfied with this book and point out errors and some of them are even believers:

1. Here a believer does not swallow the book:

Take This Book With a Large Grain of Salt, August 14, 2000
By "igabriela" - See all my reviews
This review is from: Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Paperback)
Perhaps Dr. Newton's research and past-life regressions are legitimate, but they do not closely follow any pattern established by other researchers on past-life and near-death experiences (Moody, Fiore, and Whitton, for instance), nor do they agree with Tibetan or other highly esteemed sources on the experience after death. To me, the entire volume has the flavor of being created mostly from the imagination of Dr. Newton as a way of supporting his far-flung theories. If these indeed are regressions reported by his subjects, I would guess that they have been influenced by the hypnotist himself. This is not to say that some of these theories may not coincide with other reports, but overall they do not have the ring of truth. Readers interested in reincarnation and the after-death experience might look at Vickie Mackenzie's wonderful book on Lama Yeshe, or Joel Whitton's Life Between Life, or psychiatrist Brian Weiss' thoughtful books. These researchers and reporters do not always agree, for this is wide-open, new territory, but there are enough commonalities among them to be extremely intriguing and informative.
Death and its aftermath is a very important subject, for many traditions believe that the time of death and beyond is a great opportunity for liberation and enlightenment of the soul. Books such as The Grace in Dying and Facing Death and Finding Hope elegantly address the path of the soul in the dying experience and the after-death realms. I hope that seekers after knowledge in this fascinating arena explore other, better written and better documented sources. Unless you enjoy science fiction, spend your money wisely, and elsewhere.


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Stu ... ewpoints=0

2. Again there are problems with his background again:

Newton nowhere provides any verifiable credentials- FRAUD?, March 29, 2013
By D. Cunningham - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Paperback)
The reason that I came back to these reviews is that I just read the first four chapters of Newton's book and am convinced that it is unadulterated poppycock. Newton claims in the introduction to have been at first skeptical and then scientific and objective in approaching these studies. He gives no evidence of this in his narrative. His "case studies" sound simplistic and fabricated. He has formulated conclusions about the nature and functioning of the spirit world without providing supporting evidence. Frankly his conclusions sound absurd. I wish that I had researched this guy even just a tiny bit to see if he was legit before I purchased his book. If he was indeed a legitimate PhD psychotherapist it would be easy to find a bio that provided his alma mater and degrees licenses and certifications. I could find no such information. Even on Michael Newton's web page for the Newton Institute for Life Between Lives Hypnotherapy he is extremely vague about his credentials saying only, "He holds a doctorate in Counseling Psychology, is a certified Master Hypnotherapist and is a member of the American Counseling Association." If you look up the American Counseling Association you will find that there are no credentials or licensing required for membership. Since he does not provide any verifiable credentials licensing certifications or degrees I for one suspect that he is a complete fraud. The glowing reviews found here on Amazon show how extremely naïve and undiscerning readers are.


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Stu ... ewpoints=0

3. Here we have another skeptic:

Not convinced, February 11, 2005
By
V. Levy "Victoria" (France) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Paperback)
Interesting ... but credible? The described after death experience sounds like a wonderful college or university run according to modern ideas of teaching, well staffed with wise teachers and counsellors, students encouraged to learn at their own pace, loads of experiential learning etc. All very seductive, but his books beg many questions.

For example, has Dr Newton published his work in any scientific journal subjected to peer review, where his methods of hypnosis and questioning etc can be scrutinised? If so, it would be good to have the references cited in his books so we can if we wish obtain copies of his papers and judge for ourselves if his methods are acceptable and not leading or biased. If he has not published his findings, why not, as he claims to be an academic, and publishing in peer reviewed journals is what academics do. And if what he is writing were to be accepted as credible(at least in part) by other reseachers his discoveries probably would have great impact and recognition.

Have his findings been replicated, if so by whom, and have these replication studies been published in a peer reviewed journal of repute?

How do we know the interviews have not been invented? They all sound suspiciously similar in the use of words and level of vocabulary etc.

Why the first book and then a sequel? Why could not all the information be included in the first book? How were decisions made as to what would be included or excluded in the first book? Was the second book just embroidery and further invention stimulated by the ideas and success of the first book?

These are just some of the questions I would like answers to before placing much belief in what he is writing. This is not to suggest Dr Newton does not have the answers - only that I have not heard them yet.


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Stu ... ewpoints=0

Here is another one:

Tales from a hynotherapist's notes, March 25, 2013
By
Anonymous (Maryland) - See all my reviews
Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Kindle Edition)
Take every movie, TV show and book about the afterlife and that is what you get in this collection of sessions. The corporate organization of Heaven presented here makes the reader want to do as many implants as possible to stay alive. The ideas have been around for a long time and people are presenting them under hypnosis. if it would that easy to get to heaven, everyone would be in hypnotherapy. Sorry, this book doesn't pass the smell test. I have no doubt that his clients said all those things, it is just the fact that there is nothing new in any of the cases. The hypnotherapist is leading the questions making it little more than a the clients regurgitating ideas that have been around for a long time and the hypnotherapist as a thrilled listener building his own ideas of the afterlife..


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Stu ... ewpoints=0

Another skeptic:

Please Dont Buy This!, January 23, 2014
By
Nicholas G. Sassano - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
This review is from: Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Paperback)
please don't believe the hype. This is a terrible book. Read about four chapters and then realized the book was coming across as a complete fabrication. No love or other strong emotions are felt in his rendition of the after life. What about a loving God, the author came to the conclusion that there are a few gods. If you kill someone ok come back again in a harder life sounds like Hinduism. He also says children will probably not be with their parents in the next life since we are on different learning levels of awareness. Rubbish. Hated it.


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Stu ... ewpoints=0

Another skeptic, this is a great one:

Please don't support this, February 26, 2006
By
Kylie84 (Chicago, IL) - See all my reviews
This review is from: Journey of Souls: Case Studies of Life Between Lives (Paperback)
I have lots of problems with this book and will give three most important ones why I just can't buy what he's saying

1. The way of 'remembering' the past lives is through the hypnosis, and as it is known in the world of science and psychology, this is far from being an effective and accurate way of gathering data. People are highly suggestible, especially in that state of mind. If you read Newton's questions carefully you can see that he's actually guiding people, and asking them things that only support his theories.

2. Why are the recollections from some highly known era in the history and from the past that we actually have lots of info about? There are a few that seem to be from some other world, but they are vague and very similar to the images in our world. Why are other worlds so similar to ours? How many of these worlds are out there? Since the subjects can remember them, can they also remember where they are?

3. This one is a deal breaker for the whole book...Newton admits that his patients have some sort of a psychological disorder. When you combine this with hypnosis and a growing popularity of pseudo-science, you get answers described in this book.

People believe that they have been reincarnated, they believe in the spirit world and that we're here to learn and gain experiences so that we can join the 'ultimate spirit' (if you really analyze this, it does not make any sense whatsoever). I have no doubt that these individuals really beleive this, but so did people believe that the Earth is flat (some actually still do) and that is the center of the Universe.

I understand that it is in our human nature to seek our higher purpose, and every time we get a glimpse of some `proof', we receive an extraordinary amount of comfort. But please, be rational and don't take books like this at their face value. You only support authors who are getting richer by giving us what we desperately want to hear.

A book that everyone should really have in their collection is Carl Sagan's The Demon Haunted World.


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Stu ... Descending

Okay I am done with this. There are more reviews that show this book is bad. So I am done here.

20. Problem: Here is a example of a dialogue between Dr. Newton and his patient during the state. It even shows the doctor is manipulating the person by giving questions which can be answered yes or no or by saying his own thoughts on it:

The books also say that sometimes the souls have to persuade the child to
let them in.

Here's a quote for example:


"Case 67
Dr. N: Tell me what it is like to enter the mind of a baby and when
you usually enter.
S: In the beginning I think of it as a betrothal. I entered my current
body in the eighth month. I prefer to enter on the late side when the
brain is larger so I have more to work with during the coupling.
Dr. N: Isn't there a downside to entering late? I mean, you are then
dealing with a more independent individual.
S: Some of my friends feel that way, I don't. I want to be able to talk
with the child when there is more mutual awareness.
Dr. N: (being dense to elicit a response) Talk—talk to a fetus—what
are you saying ...?
S: (laughs at me) Of course we interact with the child.
Dr. N: Take me through this slowly. Who says what first?
S: The child may say, "Who are you?" I answer, "A friend who has
come to play and be a part of you."
Dr. N: (with deliberate provocation) Isn't that deceitful? You haven't
come to play. You have come to occupy this mind.
S: Oh, please! Who have you been talking to? This mind and my soul
were created to be together. Do you think I am some sort of foreign
intruder on Earth? I have joined with babies who welcomed me as if
I were expected.
Dr. N: There are souls who have had a different experience.
S: Look, I know souls who are clumsy. They go in like bulls in a china
shop with their over-eagerness to get started with an agenda. Too
much frontal energy all at once sets up resistance.
Dr. N: In your current lifetime, was the child at all anxious about your
entry?
S: No, they don't know enough yet to be anxious. 1 begin by caressing
the brain. I am able to immediately project warm thoughts of love
and companionship. Most of the babies just accept me as being part
of themselves. A few hold back—like my current body.
Dr. N: Oh, really? What was unusual about this fetus?
S: It wasn't a big deal. Its thoughts were, "Now that you are here, who
am I going to be?"
Dr. N: I think that's a very big deal. Essentially, the child is acknowledging
that its identity depends on you.
S: (patiently) The child has begun to ask itself, "Who am I?" Some
children are more aware of this than others. A few are resistant
because, to them, we are an irritation to their inert beginnings— like
a pearl in an oyster.
Dr. N: So you don't feel the child senses it is being forced to give up
something of its individuality?
S: No, we have come as souls to give the child ... depth of personality. Its
being is enhanced by our presence. Without us they would largely
function as unripened fruit.
Dr. N: But does the child understand any of this before birth?
S: It only knows that I want to be friends so we can do things together.
We begin by communicating with each other with simple things such
as an uncomfortable body position in the mother's womb. There have
been times when the umbilical chord was wrapped around the neck of
the baby and I have calmed the child where otherwise it might have
squirmed and made things worse.
Dr. N: Please continue with how you assist the baby.
S: I prepare the child for birth, which is going to be a shock when it
happens. Imagine being forced out of a warm, comfortable, secure
womb into the bright lights of a hospital room ... the noise ... having to
breathe air... being handled. The child appreciates my help because
my primary goal now is to combat fear by soothing the brain with
assurances that everything will be fine.
Dr. N: I wonder what it was like for children before souls came to help
them?
S: The brain was too primitive then to conceptualize the trauma of
birthing. There was little awareness. (Laughs) Of course I wasn't
around in those days.
Dr. N: Are you able to calm anxious mothers in any way?
S: We must be proficient. During much of my existence I had little or no
effect on my mothers if they were frightened, sad or angry during
pregnancy. You must be able to align your energy vibrations with both
the child and the mother's natural body rhythms. You have to
harmonize three sets of wave levels—which includes your own—to
soothe the mother. I might even have the baby kick the mother to let
her know we are all right.
Dr. N: Then at birth, I supposed the hard work of the merger is
over?
S: To be honest, the merger isn't complete yet for me. I talk to my body
as a second entity up to the age of six. It is better not to force a full
meld right away. We play games as two people tor a while.
Dr. N: I have noticed a lot of young children talk to themselves as if
they were with an imaginary playmate. Is that their soul?
S: (grinning) That's right, although our guides enjoy playing with us as
young children too. And have you also noticed the elderly talking to
themselves a lot? They are preparing for separation at the other end
in their own way.
Dr. N: In general how do you feel about coming back to Earth in life
after life?
S: As a gift. This is such a muhifaceted planet. Sure, this place brings
heartache, but it is delightful too and incredibly heautiful. The human
body is a marvel of form and structure. 1 never cease to be awed by
each new body, the many different ways I can express myself in them,
especially in the most important way—love."


Taken from: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... ton-2.html
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:27 pm

21. Problem: I took a quote from the book Journey of Souls. Here we can see how he is feeding information and this patient like those two before in the pdf is a believer. Another problem is that everything we here hear is like a normal TV movie which could have been seen a million of times and this all is very vague even from the story here. I admit I do not have the full discussion but if others are in this same way made then I am extremely skeptical because in the pdf the story was very vague:

Dr. N.: Are you in great pain from the arrow?
S: Yes..the point has thorn my throat .. I’m dying (subject begins to whisper while holding his hands on the throat). I’m chocking..blood pouring down..Will(husband) is holding me…the pain..terrible..Im getting out now..it’s over, anyway.

Note: Souls often leave their human hosts moments before actual death when their bodies are in great pain. Who can blame them? Nevertheless, they do stay close by the dying body. After calming techniques, I raise this subject from the subconscious to the superconscious level for the transition to spiritual memories.

Dr. N.: All right, Sally, you have accepted being killed by these Indians. Will you please describe to me the exact sensation you feel at the time of death?

S: Like…a force..of some kind..pushing me up out of my body.

Dr. N.: Pushing you? Out where?
S.: I’m ejected out the top of my head.
Dr. N.: And what was pushed out?
S.: Well-me!
Dr.N.: Describe what “me” means. What does the thing that is you look like going out of the of your body?
S.:(pause)Like a..pinpoint of light..radiating…
Dr. N.: How do you radiate light?
S.: From..my energy. I look sort of transparent white..my soul..


Taken from: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1567184855/?ta ... 1567184855
It can be found on the page with a 10 – journey of souls.

22. Problem: Another skeptic pointed this out that it has problems and errors:

Yesterday I attempted to read Michael Newton's Journey of Souls. It is almost unbearable. It makes Weiss's Many Lives, Many Masters look like a scientific treatise.

It is clear that Newton had an afterlife mythology formed before he wrote the book. The book is a vehicle for him to teach his mythology, peppered here and there with supposed transcripts of hypnosis sessions. We have no idea who the subjects were, whether sessions were from the same subject or different ones, how much was left out, whether sessions were omitted entirely, etc. He asks his subjects leading questions, to the point where sometimes they complain that he is leading them in the wrong direction.

There isn't a shred of evidence here. I find no reason to think of it as anything other than a well-formed mythology.

It's interesting to note that Newton's subjects could remember their in-between regressions, while Weiss's subject could not.

~~ Paul


Taken from: http://forum.mind-energy.net/skeptiko-p ... souls.html

23. Problem: There is a problem that these people can have a false memory syndrome:

False memory syndrome (FMS) describes a condition in which a person's identity and relationships are affected by memories which are factually incorrect but are strongly believed.[1] Peter J. Freyd originated the term,[2] which the False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF) subsequently popularized. The term is not recognized as a mental disorder[3] in any of the medical manuals, such as the ICD-10[4] or the DSM-5;[5] however, the principle that memories can be altered by outside influences is overwhelmingly accepted by scientists.[6][7][8][9]

False memories may be the result of recovered memory therapy, a term also defined by the FMSF in the early 1990s,[10] which describes a range of therapy methods that are prone to creating confabulations. Some of the influential figures in the genesis of the theory are forensic psychologist Ralph Underwager, psychologist Elizabeth Loftus and sociologist Richard Ofshe.

Definition[edit]

False memory syndrome is defined as:

[A] condition in which a person's identity and interpersonal relationships are centered around a memory of traumatic experience which is objectively false but in which the person strongly believes. Note that the syndrome is not characterized by false memories as such. We all have memories that are inaccurate. Rather, the syndrome may be diagnosed when the memory is so deeply ingrained that it orients the individual's entire personality and lifestyle, in turn disrupting all sorts of other adaptive behavior...False Memory Syndrome is especially destructive because the person assiduously avoids confrontation with any evidence that might challenge the memory. Thus it takes on a life of its own, encapsulated and resistant to correction. The person may become so focused on memory that he or she may be effectively distracted from coping with the real problems in his or her life.[11] Emphasis in original

The concept of FMS has proven controversial,[12][13] and the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders does not include it. Paul R. McHugh, member of the FMSF, stated that the term was not adopted into the fourth version of the manual due to the pertinent committee being headed by believers in recovered memory.[2]
Recovered memory therapy[edit]
Main article: Recovered memory therapy

Recovered memory therapy is used to describe the therapeutic processes and methods that are believed to create false memories and false memory syndrome. These methods include hypnosis, sedatives and probing questions where the therapist believes repressed memories of traumatic events are the cause of their client's problems.[14] The term is not listed in DSM-IV or used by any mainstream formal psychotherapy modality.[10]

Memory consolidation becomes a critical element of false memory and recovered memory syndromes. Once stored in the hippocampus, the memory may last for years or even for life, regardless that the memorized event never actually took place. Obsession to a particular false memory, planted memory, or indoctrinated memory can shape a person's actions or even result in delusional disorder.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome

Conclusion of part 16: What to say in the end. The same old, same old but now that the doctor is not claiming reincarnation but spirit lives in heaven, there are other problems with this but I think that this covers it for now. Not all people liked his book and it was not written as a science paper. There is another problem that Dr. Newton has had a lot of time to prove his methods, make it into Nature magazine and prove to us that his training and beliefs are true but nothing like this is happening to this day. He has not called out skeptics or scientist to test his method and his claims. Also Dr. Newton could be cherry picking we do not know how many regression therapy sittings he had with his patients and what he left in and out in them in his book, we are only given the chance to believe in the honest word of Dr. Newton and his book. I think he has done it for the money, to sell to the flock of believers his books because his first book was released in Again for me this case does NOT prove reincarnation or even the spirit world. It does NOT even hint reincarnation or the spirit world.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf and Amazon book so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:40 pm

Part 17: Guns and Rebirth

This is the new case:

2002 ∗ Guns and Rebirth [ID#74] 279 Haraldsson


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... ebirth.pdf

Now I will write the problems why I do not believe in this case:

1. Problem: Where to begin there are a lot of problems here. First: many of the statements are vague. Second he could have seen it on TV or in a comic book for example a known comic book character called the Punisher who uses weapons, grenades and has the name Frank Castle, I will post link to show this later on. However after reading through the original pdf I found the family is from another place and not America so this is not possible. Third in the pdf it is written that the child made several statements over the years which means this can be cherry picking from the beginning because if he is reincarnated he should make these whole claims from the start and not over the years and also I would like to know who judged which statement is tied with reincarnation and which not because a talking child talks a lot because they want to talk:

When Nathan Albin was 18 months old he began making statements such as: “I am not small, I am big.” and “I am fearless and strong.” Which might not be unusual for a very young boy, but then he would say:
• “I have a lot of weapons.”
• “I carry two pistols. I carry four hand-grenades.”
• “Don’t be by the hand-grenades I know how to handle them.”
Then he said his name was actually Frank, that lived in Quincy, not Bretton, and that he had young children who he wanted to visit. Over the next years, Nathan made numerous statements about his life and death as Frank.(See bulleted items on page 3.)


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... ebirth.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: There are again more problems here. First the parents were believers in the reincarnation because they had a similar experience and accepted this possibility. The second problem here is that Samuel passed over the town. Maybe he knew more then he is telling and could tell his wife about it and the child overheard it. Third problem is that the town from where Nathan is and where he wanted to go are not so distant, there can be some information leakage:

Although she accepted the possibility that Nathan had lived a previous life, his mother, Nancy, did not encourage him to speak of it because of a similar experience with one of his older sisters. “Life is not easy for such children,” she noted. Nathan’s father, Samuel, listened to the boy’s claims but also tried to resist his persistent pleas to take him his “home,” even when Nathan threatened to walk there by himself. But, after 4 years of nagging, his parents gave in and the family drove to the village of Quincy, about 10 ½ miles away. Nathan had never been there before, but Samuel had passed through a few times but knew no one in the town. When they arrived at the intersection in Quincy where six roads converge, Nathan pointed out the proper turns to reach Franks house.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... ebirth.pdf
Page: 1

3. Problem: I will not write here everything because I found the original pdf. Story but I address some of the statements in this pdf which leaves me doubtful. Here we see that these claims are vague and the child could have seen this even in his family because they also owned a car because they came there by a car:

Nathan then reminded his (Frank’s) wife of several incidents in ther life together. He said, “Do you remember when we were going in the car and the car stopped and twice the soldiers fixed it for us?” She did recall a trip in which soldiers had twice changed their car’s battery. “One night I came home drunk,” Nathan continued, “and you locked the door and I slept outside the house on a rocking sofa.” This she also admitted to.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... ebirth.pdf
Page: 1

4. Problem: I found the original pdf. which gives more information and is a better thing to use. I found it thanks to this and I will use that because it offers more information:

The actual names of people and places involved in this case are: Nathan Albin = Nazih Al-Danaf, Samuel = Sabir. Nancy = Naaim, Sabrina = Sabrine, Frank = Fuad, Carl Carter = Kamal Khaddage, Nadia = Najdiyah, Farkas = Faraj, Austin = Adeeb, Felicia = Fairuz, Bretton = Baalchmay (about 15 miles east of Beirut, Lebanon), Quincy = Qaberchamoun, Kendall = Kfermatta. The Al-Danaf family follows Druze religion a spin-off of Islam that accepts the reality of reincarnation.


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... ebirth.pdf
Page: 1

So I will use this pdf which has more information about this case: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf

5. Problem: This reaseach was published in The journal of scientific exploration a very well know woo journal:

This can be seen here:
https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 363
Page in Acrobat Reader: 1

Here is the link that it is a woo magazine:

Academic reception[edit]

The Spirituality and Psychiatry Special Interest Group of the Royal College of Psychiatrists says that the journal has reports about anomalies in science, particularly in the parapsychological and extraterrestrial fields.[8][9] Some academics have noted that the journal publishes on anomalous issues, topics often on the fringe of science.[10] The journal is not indexed in Web of Science, an indexing service for scientific journals.

Of the Society for Scientific Exploration and Journal of Scientific Exploration, journalist Michael Lemonick writes, "Pretty much anything that might have shown up on The X-Files or in the National Enquirer shows up first here. But what also shows up is a surprising attitude of skepticism."[11]

Kendrick Frazier, editor of Skeptical Inquirer and Committee for Skeptical Inquiry fellow has suggested that:
"The JSE, while presented as neutral and objective, appears to hold a hidden agenda. They seem to be interested in promoting fringe topics as real mysteries and they tend to ignore most evidence to the contrary. They publish 'scholarly' articles promoting the reality of dowsing, neo-astrology, ESP, and psychokinesis. Most of the prominent and active members are strong believers in the reality of such phenomena."[12]

Clinical community psychologist and professor of social psychology at the University of Connecticut, Seth Kalichman regards the journal as a publisher of pseudoscience, with the journal serving as a "major outlet for UFOology, paranormal activity, extrasensory powers, alien abductions etc".[13]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of ... _reception

6. Problem: The research is done by Erlendur Haraldson who is a known woo believer and proponent:

This can be seen here:
https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 363
Page in Acrobat Reader: 1

It was already pointed out here by me: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22159

7. Problem: They all are from believers families in reincarnation and again its from Ian Stevenson in a way because it’s the same interpreter who worked with Stevenson so I think this is again biased as hell:

From August 1988 to March 200 1 the first author made six journeys to Lebanon to conduct a psychological study of children who claim to have memories of a previous life or who are believed to have them by those around them. Thirty such children were found, 19 boys and 1 1 girls, all in the Druze community in Lebanon. A few cases were picked out for a detailed investigation. This paper reports one case which is notable for several features. Nazih Al-Danaf lives with his father Sabir Al-Danaf, his mother Naaim, and seven sisters and brothers in Baalchmay, about 15 miles east of Beirut. The exceptional
features of his case (e.g., the number of witnesses to his statements before an attempt was made to find a deceased person) seemed in particular to deserve a thorough investigation. The family and home of the claimed previous person were found by following Nazih’s directions. The two families were complete strangers with no previous meeting or connection between them. There were a high number of recognitions made by the child as he first met the wife and children of the deceased person, and the person’s brother. The family of the deceased probed the child’s detailed knowledge of the life of the individual they had known, and verified his memories. This paper describes our investigation of this case and also the process of how members of the alleged previous family responded to Nazih’s statements and tested him until they arrived at a certainty about his claims and came to accept him as a rebirth of a previous member of their family. Previously the first author (E.H.) has investigated and published reports on a number of cases in Sri Lanka (Haraldsson, 1991, 2000a, b; Haraldsson & Samararatne, 1999; Mills et al., 1994), besides conducting two psychological studies of children who claimed memories of a previous life (Haraldsson, 1995, 1997; Haraldsson et al., 2000). The second author (M.A.I.) has an intimate knowledge of Druze culture, served as an interpreter, took an active part in the investigation of this case, and assisted another researcher, Ian Stevenson, in the investigation of numerous cases in Lebanon in the seventies (Stevenson, 1980).


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Pages in the pdf: 363-364
Pages in Acrobat Reader: 1-2

Here it is shown that the Druzes believe in reincarnation:

The Druzes

The Druzes are one of four main ethnic communities of Lebanon, the others being Christian Maronites, Sunni and Shiite Muslims. The Druzes number about 300,000 in Lebanon and also live in Syria, Jordan and Israel and as immigrants in other countries. The Druze religion is generally considered a subgroup within Islam with its origin traced back to the 1 I th century, but is sometimes looked upon as independent of Islam (Abu-Izzeddin, 1993; Makarem, 1979). The Druzes tend to cloak their religion in secrecy and differ
from mainstream Muslims in many important respects, such their scriptures, and by showing no observance of the five fundamental tenets of Islam. Their religious scriptures are kept secret from non-Druzes as well as the great majority of Druzes (the juhhal, perhaps 90% of the community) who have not been initiated into their religion. Around 10% of Druzes (the uqqal), go through religious training and are initiated into their religion, usually in later life, and then obtain the honorific title of Sheikh or Sheikha in the case of
women. They abstain from alcohol and tobacco and are expected to lead a more virtuous life and take on a dress that distinguishes them from the rest of the population, although the last requirement is not always observed among Druzes working in higher positions in Beirut. Plato, the Greek philosopher that predates Islam by many centuries, is held in great esteem in the Druze scriptures, and in his writings the concept of reincarnation plays an important role. Reincarnation is an important tenet of the Druze religion.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 364
Page in Acrobat Reader: 2

8. Problem: The methodology also shows that we have nothing more then inverviews of people who already believe that this child is reincarnated and sometimes there were interviewed in pairs and not alone:

1. Ascertain the facts of each case by interviewing independently available witnesses as to the child’s statements about a previous life. We conducted interviews about this case with the principal witnesses-Nazih’s mother and father and his six older sisters and his older brother, all at the family’s home. We interviewed the family during three trips to Lebanon, in May 2000 and in January and March 2001. We visited their home seven times for interviewing, and thus came to know them fairly well, which is essential if a case is to be studied thoroughly. With a few exceptions the interviews were conducted in Arabic and interpreted by M.A.I. Relevant notes from the interviews were in most instances later checked with the interviewees. Each witness was interviewed individually, mostly alone but sometimes someone else or others were present in the living room where the interviews took place. (In small apartments where many family members live, it may be difficult to ask people to leave the living room.) The witness would be asked to sit on a special chair, and if others were present, they would be asked to keep quiet while the witness was interviewed. We emphasized that each witness should only report what s/he had heard or witnessed directly, not what s/he had heard others say. Thus we obtained testimony from nine witnesses regarding the statements that Nazih had been making about a previous life, particularly statements that he had made before the first contact with the alleged previous family. All the major witnesses were interviewed on more than one occasion several months apart. Their testimony was on the whole consistent over time but additional testimony would sometimes emerge on a later visit that the witness did not recall in the earlier interview, as is not uncommon when interviewing witnesses.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 364
Page in Acrobat Reader: 2

9. Problem: Those who were interviewed sometimes even argued and could not get the facts right:

Nazih’s sisters and brother would sometimes argue about some differences in their observations, in those few instances when more than one witness was present. They would generally be very clear about which statements they had heard Nazih make and which they had not.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 364
Page in Acrobat Reader: 2

10. Problem: There are more problems here. First they appeared in the year 2000 for the first time when everything was already over and the families believed that the boy was reincarnated. Second he made vague statements. Third the child did not name his children but only gave the number. Fourth: The mother already forgot the number of the children by now. So it seems that some things of this were forgotten:, so how can we be sure that everyone is telling the truth and remembering this as it was? We cant:

Nazih was born February 29, 1992, and was eight years old when we first met him at his home in Baalchmay in May 2000. We learned about this case from the family of another child. We had some difficulties finding Nazih’s home on the Beirut-Damascus highway, and stopped at a shop to ask where Nazih’s father lived. When the shopkeeper learned that we wanted to speak to his son Nazih, he seemed in no doubt what the errand might be: “What has he done now? He is a naughty boy.” Nazih was in school when we arrived and his mother, Naaim Al-Danaf, was, at first somewhat reluctantly, willing to speak to us. We asked her what first made her think that Nazih was speaking of a previous life. According to
her he was only a year and a half old when he began using words that they did not expect a child of his age to know. He would tell his mother, “I am not small, I am big. I carry two pistols. I carry four hand-grenades. I am ‘qabadai’ (a fearless strong person). Don’t be scared by the hand-grenades. I know how
to handle them. I have a lot of weapons. My children are young and I want to go and see them.” He also told her how many children he had, but she has forgotten the number now. He did not give their names to his mother.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 366
Page in Acrobat Reader: 4

11. Problem: Even the people are not sure what happened here. They cannot even remember some details here which are important like if he said the name Faud or not:

Nazih stated that he wanted to go to his previous home to get some papers for money that he had lent to people so that he could get the money back. He said his previous name was Fuad. In a later interview Nazih’s mother withdrew that statement and thought that name first came up after the first visit to the village of Qaberchamoun where his previous family was identified. Nazih’s sister Sabrine insists she heard him say the name Fuad before that visit.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 366
Page in Acrobat Reader: 4

12. Problem: Vague statements and can be derived from child imagination because the child saw this woman and could have created false memory. This was already pointed out here in this thread in the police man and painter case:

Nazih used to tell his mother. “My wife is prettier than you. Her eyes and mouth are more beautiful.” This statement may in fact have been the first that made her think that he was talking about a previous life. Later we learned that Nazih also said this to most of his six sisters who are older than he is. When he was around four he saw a young woman that worked in a store across the street. His mother and sister Mirna remember him saying that she looked like his previous wife and had the same beautiful eyes. He liked her a
lot and went as far as to ask her to marry him!


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 366
Page in Acrobat Reader: 4

13. Problem: This is again a vague statement and it is not even precise:

He often talked about a friend who was mute and had only one hand (or he may have said that there was something wrong with his hand). Nazih said his friend could hold a gun in one hand and work it, getting it ready to shoot. He referred to him as “my friend the mute.”


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 367
Page in Acrobat Reader: 5

14. Problem: What he has no reincarnation birthmark? So how does this fit into Ian Stevensons work? Also when the child believed he had guns he could have made this up from prior belief:

Nazih described how he had died. “Armed people came and shot at us. I also shot at them and killed one. We were shot and later taken by an ambulance.” (And thus his life ended.) Nazih told his mother that he remembered that they gave him a shot of anesthesia in his arm in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. He would point to a spot on his upper arm and say: “This is where they stuck the needle.” We did not see there any sign of a birthmark.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 367
Page in Acrobat Reader: 5

15. Problem: He did not specify the place he lived before according to this pdf:

Nazih often insisted that his parents take him to his previous home so that he could see his children and do other things already mentioned. Nazih’s mother did not recall that he had specified where he had lived. Sometimes he would threaten them: “If you don’t take me there I am going to walk.”


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 367
Page in Acrobat Reader: 5

However in the pdf before they claim he said he lived there. Someone if lying here and I think it’s the second pdf, not the original from Haraldson:

When Nathan Albin was 18 months old he began making statements such as: “I am not small, I am big.” and “I am fearless and strong.” Which might not be unusual for a very young boy, but then he would say:
• “I have a lot of weapons.”
• “I carry two pistols. I carry four hand-grenades.”
• “Don’t be by the hand-grenades I know how to handle them.”
Then he said his name was actually Frank, that lived in Quincy, not Bretton, and that he had young children who he wanted to visit. Over the next years, Nathan made numerous statements about his life and death as Frank.(See bulleted items on page 3.)


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... ebirth.pdf
Page: 1

16. Problem: A lot of the statements in the table 1 are really vague(like I shot at them, I killed one, etc. beause it sounds like a typical childs tale during a bank roberry or shoot out or that I had a red car) and not everywhere the informants agree or give the information. It can be seen here:

https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 368
Page in Acrobat Reader: 6

17. Problem: They also did not meat with his father during the first meeting in the year 2000 but later on. I think the wife already told him what happened and he could easily play along:

We did not meet Nazih’s father, Sabir Al-Danaf, a mason by profession, until during our visit in January 2001. He told us that he had been more ready to listen to Nazih’s talk about the previous life than his mother. He did not encourage Nazih, but he listened to him, although he also did not want his son to get mixed up with two lives. “Besides, his mother feared that he might go away to the previous family”, Sabir said. This fear is common among mothers of children who speak about a previous life.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 369
Page in Acrobat Reader: 7

18. Problem: There are problems here because not everyone remembers everything and the drawings do not exist anymore so we have again only a story and Sabir the father of the child has relatives there. This could point out some information could have been leaked:

According to his father Sabir, Nazih insisted that his parents take him to Qaberchamoun, a small town that is about 17 km away. “My home (house) is in Qaberchamoun”, he said. Nazih wanted to show them where his house was. “If you don’t take me there I am going to walk there”, he threatened. His father states that when Nazih was 2.5 years old, he drew a map of his previous house for them and also of an intersection near his house. Unfortunately these drawings no longer exist. Nazih’s father tried for a long time to put off bringing Nazih to his previous home in spite of his persistent requests. Nazih also told his sisters and brother that he wanted to go and see his children and get his weapons and other things. Nazih’s mother, sisters and brother, however, do not remember that Qaberchamoun was mentioned by Nazih before they went there, whereas his father claims that he did, and that is why they drove to Qaberchamoun. Sabir had been there and has relatives near the village but had no knowledge of anyone living in the village itself.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 369
Page in Acrobat Reader: 7

19. Problem: They cannot even agree when this happened and the child was already in the city and saw the family where he claimed he was reincarnated:

When Nazih was six years old (early 1998, witnesses not quite sure) his father and mother finally agreed to drive Nazih to Qaberchamoun.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 369
Page in Acrobat Reader: 7

20. Problem: Another witness cannot remember more only this:

This is how he, Kamal Khaddage, described their first meeting:

I was washing my car and watering at the entrance to our house. A car came up the road, stopped at the next house above and on the other side of the road. A young boy sprang out of the car. Then the car backed down and parked on the level road below at the corner of our lot. A man [Nazih’s father] left the car and walked up the road to follow the boy. The women saw me and walked towards me. They asked if I knew someone who had been shot, they did not know his name but he had carried handguns, hand-grenades, and had owned a red car. Kamal was surprised because the boy described by the women seemed to remember life as his father, Fuad Khaddage; his father had died many years ago, so he asked about the age of the boy. Kamal said that Nazih’s mother told him he was around seven. The visitors said more about the person whose life the boy seemed to remember but Kamal does not remember further details.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 370
Page in Acrobat Reader: 8

21. Problem: This is pretty weak identification and the father is asking in a way that even a child would deduce it, which means yes or no:

Najdiyah Khaddage was Kamal’s mother and the wife of Fuad, the alleged previous personality. “When Nazih came here I was picking olives in our garden some distance away. My children yelled at me that there was a boy who said that he was their father, and they wanted me to come and see if he would recognize me. I went to them and told his mother that my husband died in the war. When he saw me, he looked like he knew me, and looked up and down at me. Kamal then said to him: Is she her [your previous wife] or not? Nazih smiled.”


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 371
Page in Acrobat Reader: 9

22. Problem: He said a man from the Faraj family which is vague. If he is reincarnated he could be more precise and the woman was open to reincarnation also because she wanted to be sure and was not so skeptical:

Najdiyah told us, “I wanted to be sure of him, sure that he was my previous husband”. She asked him: “Who built the foundation of this gate at the entrance of this house?” Nazih replied: “A man from the Faraj family.” This was correct.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 371
Page in Acrobat Reader: 9

23. Problem: The child himself could have the same experience and therefore he answered this:

Najdiyah also asked Nazih if he remembered how their young daughter Fairuz got seriously sick. He said: “She was poisoned from my medication and I took her to the hospital.” Fairuz had in fact eaten Fuad’s medication pills that were in his jacket. She was four years old at the time, and had become very sick.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 371
Page in Acrobat Reader: 9

24. Problem: There are other problems. They I think are not so smart and second they are visiting each other from the year 1998 when they began to believe that Nazih is Fuad reborn:

Najdiyah was much impressed and so were his five children. They told us that they all believed that Nazih was Fuad reborn. This was the only way they could understand how Nazih was able to reveal such knowledge of their father’s life. Since that time the families occasionally visit one another and have, evidently, an affectionate relationship. We observed affectionate embraces between Nazih and the family as we parted.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 372
Page in Acrobat Reader: 10

25. Problem: Nazih met actually everyone and we have only claims of a story:

Nazih visited Fuad’s younger brother Sheikh Adeeb’ at his home in Kfermatta shortly after the first meeting with the family in Qaberchamoun. Sheikh Adeeb is a senior employee of an airline and works in Beirut. This is Sheikh Adeeb’s account of their first meeting:

Nazih, and his family came to my house and asked for me. I was at a Druze prayer house [majlis] and left immediately to find my house full of people. I saw a boy running towards me who said: “Here comes my brother Adeeb”, and hugged me. I remember it was wintertime and Nazih said: “How do you go out like this (not warmly dressed], put something on your ears.” Then he told me: “I am your brother Fuad.” I looked at him and said: “What is the proof that you are my brother Fuad.” He said that he once gave me a handgun as a gift. Then I asked, what kind of gun? He told me: “I gave you a Checki 16” (a gun from Czechoslovakia). Nazih asked me if I still had it. Then I hugged him and was 100% sure that he was my brother.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 372
Page in Acrobat Reader: 10

26. Problem: They all were very emotional in the next meeting this could have blinded their judgement if they had any actually:

Sheikh Adeeb told us that the first meeting with Nazih was very emotional, people were crying and hugging, as it brought back so many memories.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 373
Page in Acrobat Reader: 11

27. Problem: The gun that convinced Sheikh was not unknown but maybe his wife knew that and he also sold already the gun. Again no evidence and even Sheikh is not sure on everything:

It was, in particular, the story of the Checki 16 handgun that completely convinced Sheikh Adeeb that Nazih was his brother Fuad reborn, because nobody would have known about Fuad giving this handgun to him. Sheikh Adeeb admitted that perhaps his wife might have known, but not anyone else. By the time we met him he had sold this gun.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 373
Page in Acrobat Reader: 11

28. Problem: Faud the boys past life was also a believer in reincarnation so that means these people also were believers in it who questioned him from the other family:

Fuad was born 1925 in Kfermatta, which is only a few kilometers away from Qaberchamoun. He had two brothers, Ibrahim and Sheikh Adeeb, who gave us valuable information about Fuad. Fuad’s first wife was Fida, with whom he had eight children. They divorced and he married Najdiyah. They had five children. The oldest was 8 years old when he died. When Fuad had finished compulsory schooling he started to work at the Druze Orphanage in Abey, and then at the Druze Center (Dar El Taifeh) in Beirut, where he was employed for 30 years. He worked for Sheikh Al Aql (title for the highest sheikh, who is the spiritual leader of the Druze community). At this time Sheikh Al Aql was Mohammad Abu-Chakra. The Dar El Taifeh is the religious center for Druzes in Beirut.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 373
Page in Acrobat Reader: 11

29. Problem: He was not always right:

Of the 23 items, 17 seem to fit the life of Fuad. We cannot be sure but it seems quite unlikely that one of them is correct, i.e., that he received a shot of anesthesia in his arm as the ambulance brought him to the hospital. Why would he have been given an injection, since he apparently died immediately when he received his second shot?


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 376
Page in Acrobat Reader: 14

30. Problem: A lot of things cannot be confirmed:

We could not verify that there was anything wrong with his mute friend’s arm as we were unable to trace close relatives of Aref Ghallab to get full certainty about this statement. Furthermore, Nazih claims that he shot at the attackers and killed one of them. When witnesses came to the scene the attackers had left so it is not known if Fuad shot at them and wounded or killed anyone. We were not able to get at any report of an investigation into this incident. Our inquiries revealed that no official investigation was conducted by the public prosecutor as this occurred in the midst of the civil war, and during the Israeli occupation, when the government was paralyzed. One important sheikh in Beirut told us that there were rumors about a shoot-out
during the attack. This is not mentioned in newspaper reports of the incidents, but we also have no proof that it did not take place.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 376
Page in Acrobat Reader: 14

31. Problem: The parents help the child because they interpret his words in a new way:

Nazih had stated that he lived in a house with two stories and that it was like a villa with trees around it. His parents and Fuad’s family understood that he was here referring to the house in Ainab where his family lived for a few years, including the time during which they were building the house in Qaberchamoun (which was not fully completed when Fuad died). These statements fit the house in Ainab that is located next to the mud road where Nazih stop-ped during his first trip to Qaberchamoun.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Pages in the pdf: 376-377
Pages in Acrobat Reader: 14-15

32. Problem: The investigators claim here that they have only one witness for two items another problem:

For two items we have only one witness. First, Nazih’s father states that he mentioned the location Qaberchamoun before they went there. (Why would they have gone there if Nazih had not mentioned it?)


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 377
Page in Acrobat Reader: 15

33. Problem: The child saw a red car and then claimed that he had a red car this is normal child logic and it seems he made this thing up. Second why did he not mentioned other cars he owned if he is reincarnated? Also the investigators did a bad job here because they forgot to check one item:

Secondly Nazih’s brother Baha reports that once when they were standing on their veranda watching the cars passing by, they saw a red Transam car. Nazih then claimed he had owned a car like that. According to his wife, Fuad had owned four cars, first a red car with a black roof that could be removed, then a white Volkswagen, a blue Mercedes and last, a red Datsun. A red car was one of the items that Kamal Khaddage remembers that Nazih’s mother or sister mentioned, and hence was one of the statements that lead to the identification of Fuad as Nazih’s previous personality. This item of the red car came up in one of our last interviews, and we did not have a chance (or forgot) to check this item with Nazih’s sisters.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 377
Page in Acrobat Reader: 15

34. Problem: Here is a statement that cannot be verified:

Najdiyah and Sheikh Adeeb were not aware that Fuad had any outstanding money owed to him. In Lebanese society men tend not to involve their wives in financial matters and relatives may not be well informed either, so this statement can neither be verified or falsified.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 377
Page in Acrobat Reader: 15

35. Problem: Another vague statement but the authors are trying to prove that the child was right. They are showing their bias:

The statement that his wife of the previous life was prettier than his mother is a matter of aesthetic taste. Perhaps he was right. Now middle-aged and not in good health, Najdiyah’s features are still strikingly feminine. A photograph taken at her wedding shows a beautiful woman. Being a widow with five young children has been difficult, and still is. They are a poor family; Kamal is an automechanic, another
son is a barber but unemployment is high in Lebanon. They were very hospitable to us.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 377
Page in Acrobat Reader: 15

36. Problem: Here is the total score and not everything was right:

Regarding the statements that Nazih made before he visited his alleged previous family we may say after extensive interviewing and inquiries that 17 of the 23 statements correspond to facts in the life of Fuad Khaddage, one is most likely wrong (no. 21 in Table 1) and five proved uncheckable (8, 12, 13, 16, 20).


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 377
Page in Acrobat Reader: 15

37. Problem: Ian Stevenson again helped on this paper:

A grant from the Bial Foundation in Portugal is gratefully acknowledged. We express our thanks to two Journal reviewers for thoughtful comments on a draft of this paper, and to Dr. Sami Makarem at the American University in Beirut, and Dr. Stevenson at the University of Virginia, for useful comments and other assistance.


Taken from: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
Page in the pdf: 379
Page in Acrobat Reader: 17

Conclusion of part 17: I have found 37 problems or even more because I write in one problem more problems. I therefore does not believe in this story because it is just a story. We have nothing to validate this because all is said by the families who already believed that the boy is reincarnated and where both families were in a religion which believed in reincarnation. To me this case does NOT prove reincarnation. This case also does NOT hint reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf and Amazon book so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

Note2: I had to copy the text from this pdf: https://notendur.hi.is//~erlendur/engli ... /nazih.pdf
So I there can be some grammar errors thanks to the Ctrl+C usage however the idea is consistent and if you do not believe me check the links(that is the reason they are there.)
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Shen1986
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:54 pm

Part 18: My Mother's Brother Is My Father's Son

Here is the new case:

2003 My Mother's Brother Is My Father's Son [ID#75 ] 267 Stevenson


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml
The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... rother.pdf

I was able to find the case elsewhere also with additional information. The authors in the pdf wrote the name wrong: It is not Samuel Helender but Samuel Helander.

Here is more info: http://www.iisis.net/index.php?page=per ... r&hl=en_US

Here is even the whole book: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf

I will be using the book I found and not the pdf from aeces because it has little information of the case. Now I will write the problems which make me hard to swallow this case:

1. Problem: This case is from Stevenson which can be seen as his name is in the case and also the book is from him. Stevenson is a know believer and second who devised his methodology from old psychic researchers:

After careful review of available phenomena that had suggested the possibility of reincarnation, Stevenson, following the methodology of early psychic researchers (Gurney et al. in 1886 and Myers in 1903), devised a protocol for recovery and evaluation of memories of apparent previous lives, a process Stevenson described in 1977 (2).


Taken from: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/data/Jo ... 01/823.pdf
Page: 1

2. Problem: Marja the mother of the child is a strong believer because she claims she had a prophetic dream:

About 10 months before Samuels birth, Marjas stepbrother, Pertti Haikio, had died unexpectedly, Marja became pregnant soon afterward and contemplated having an abortion. Then she had a dream in which Pertti came to her and said: “Keep that child.” She let the pregnancy continue.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 152
Page in Acrobat Reader: 155

As she is the mother we can see here:

Samuel Helander was born in Helsinki, Finland, on April 15, 1976. His parents were Pentti Helander and his wife, Marja.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 152
Page in Acrobat Reader: 155

3. Problem: Here we have the same problem which I pointed out by the painter and policeman case. That false memories can be created like I wrote there and cited the Skeptical Dictionary:

Samuel began to speak when he was about 1 year old, and when he was about 1 ½ years old, he began to speak about the life of Pertti. His statements were not abundant, and about half of them occurred when a person, photograph, or other object stimulated his memories.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Pages in pdf: 152-153
Pages in Acrobat Reader: 155-156

4. Problem: It is strange that the child did not speak about the past life and the only information we have are from his mother and one other relative. Ian Stevenson did not even met the child when he was already 23 years old. What a weak work and foolishness:

I first learned about this case in September 1978 in a letter from Rita Castren. Later that year I went to Helsinki and on December 2 had a long interview with Samuel’s mother, Marja Helander. I met Samuel, but I have no record that he said anything to me, and I cannot say that I interviewed him.(He was then only 2 ½ years old.) In 1981 I returned to Helsinki and on March 8 had another interview with Marja Helander. On March 20 I interviewed Marjas (and Penttis) mother, Anneli Lagerqvist. For my interviews with Marja Helander, Rita Castren was my interpreter; for that with Anneli Lagerqvist, R.J. Milton interpreted. I obtained some additional information in correspondence with Rita Castren and from an interview with Marja Helander conducted by a Finnish journalist, Oskar Reponen. In September 1984 Rita Castren obtained and set me some information about Samuel’s development up to that time, when he was 8 years old. In the autumn of 1999 I was again in Helsinki and had another long interview with Marja Helander. She clarified a few details and gave me information about Samuel’s further development. He was then 23 years old. He himself was detained by the need to care for his younger brother, who was ill; thus I did not meet him.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 153
Page in Acrobat Reader: 156

5. Problem: They were actually family and Marja was very attached to him:

Pertti was musical, and he owner and played a guitar. He was an unusually affectionate person. He was especially attached to his mother and to his older sister, Marja. Although he was younger than Marja, he had to some extent assumed with her role of a supportive older brother.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 154
Page in Acrobat Reader: 157

6. Problem: The problem here is cherry picking because a lot of times is said that he sometimes said this and sometimes said that. Another problem is that Pertti was not unknown, they were all a family and Marja was attached to him according to what was told above in problem 5:

Samuel’s first utterance suggestive of memories of the life of Pertti occurred when he was about 1 ½ years old and was asked his name. He replied: “Peltti.” (He could not pronounce the “r” in Pertti.) Samuel also at times said that he was “Pera,” which had been Pertti’s nickname. At this time Samuel called his mother “Marja” and his maternal grandmother (Anneli Lagerqvist) “Mother.” He told Marja that she was not his mother. Similarly, he sometimes called Pentti Helander “Pentti” and sometimes called him “Daddy.”


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 154
Page in Acrobat Reader: 157

7. Problem: Again we have the same problem. The child first saw the photograph and then made the claim. This can cause false memories and he did not say it was broken if he was reincarnated I think he would have a better vocabulary:

When he was about 2, Samuel saw a photograph taken of Pertti when he was in the hospital after his leg was broken. He said: “That is me when my legs were ill.”(He did not say “broken.”)


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 154
Page in Acrobat Reader: 157

8. Problem: This shows not so logical rationalizing by the mother who is a believer in a way:

When Samuel was about 2 ½, he unexpectedly said: “Now Ludi has come to me.” He made this statement on the day that Pertti’s great aunt Lydia died. (“Ludi” was her short name.) Samuel was aware that Lydia was ill and might have thought she was dying. His remark impressed Marja, however, because Lydia had bought a tomb, intended for herself, shortly before Pertti died, and Pertti had been buried in it as was Lydia herself later.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 154
Page in Acrobat Reader: 157

Here we see that Marja is a believer in something:

Marja was a member of the Lutheran Church; I did not learn the religious affiliations of other members of the family.

Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 152
Page in Acrobat Reader: 155

9. Problem: Again he saw the photographs which is a great error:

When Samuel was between 3 and 4 years old, he was looking through an album of family photographs and came to one of Pertti that was also taken when Pertti was in the hospital. This one showed Pertti in a walker, after the plaster had been taken off his legs. Samuel, speaking to Anneli, said: “Mother, here I am in this picture.” Then he said that his legs had both been in plaster and that he had been in the hospital. No one had asked Samuel about the this photograph; he had been looking at the album himself, came across this photograph, and then brought the album to Anneli to show her.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 155
Page in Acrobat Reader: 158

10. Another problem: This is very strange and it destroys the reincarnation hypothesis:

When Samuel was shown photographs of Pertti as he was up to the age of about 10, he would say: “That’s me.” When he saw photographs of Pertti at ages older than 10, he said nothing.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 155
Page in Acrobat Reader: 158

11. Problem: Again he saw the album and vague statements:

On one occasion when he was looking at the album of photographs, he spontaneously said: “I remember when the dog bit my leg.” He also spoke at other times of how the dog had bit him and how much it had hurt.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 155
Page in Acrobat Reader: 158

12. Problem: The problem here is that it was again said by Marja. Another problem is that not everything was verified as the color of the hats:

That same month Samuel made his detailed statement. He recalled how a long time ago he had gone to a “kiska” (this way of pronouncing “kiosk”) with his father. They wore hats, his a blue one, his father’s a pale one. They also brought a guitar. One man carried a gun. The house near the kiosk caught on fire and they had to leave. All this, Marja told Rita Castren, corresponded to an event that took place in 1974, about a year before Perttis death. A friend had organized a party which was to be held in a small house near a kiosk by the railway. The attic of the house caught fire and the party broke up. (Marja did not say whether Samuel had been correct about the colors of the hats.)


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 155
Page in Acrobat Reader: 158

13. Problem: So when Samuel not always identified Marja as his sister so that means there can be cherry picking and some errors and this all can be a child fantasy peppered by the parents belief that they have a reincarnated child:

Samuel did not always identify Marja as a sister and Anneli as his mother. On one occastion when he saw a photograph of Pentti Haikio and Anneli, he said: ”There is Daddy and Grandma also.” Marja tried to mislead Samuel by saying he was wrong in his identifications, but he repeated what he had said. The important point of this recognition is that Samuel had never seen Pertti’s father, Pentti Haikio.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 155
Page in Acrobat Reader: 158

14. Problem: Again looking at a photograph:

Looking at a photograph of Pentti Haikio, Samuel said: ”This is my father.”


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 155
Page in Acrobat Reader: 158

15. Problem: Almost every child wants to keep what he finds. This is no proof of past-life memories:

Pertti had owned and played a guitar. After his death it had been put in a box that was kept in a cupboard. No one had spoken to Samuel about the guitar, but he looked for it, found it, and said that it was his.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 155
Page in Acrobat Reader: 158

16. Problem: This could have happened more times then just once but the parents does not want to confess it:

After Pertti’s death, all his clothes were destroyed, except for a corduroy jacket, which was kept in a cupboard. One day Anneli and Marja opened the cupboard and discussed (in front of Samuel) giving the jacket away. Samuel, shouting, said it was his and they should not give it away. Because it is possible – although they did not say this – that Anneli and Marja had referred to the jacket as having belonged to Pertti, we should not credit Samuel whith having recognized it.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 155
Page in Acrobat Reader: 158

17. Problem: This is a typical childish behavior because when they find something they want to keep it:

Pertti had owned a watch that was broken and handless. After his death Anneli had put it in a drawer that contained a lot of “junk”. One day Anneli opened that drawer while Samuel was with her. He saw the watch, pounced on it, and said it was his. After taking possession of the watch, he kept it either under his pillow or in a drawer beneath his bed.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 156
Page in Acrobat Reader: 159

18. Problem: Cherry picking because he said also other things but this resonated in the mother. Also he visited the grave so he knew about it:

Anneli took Samuel with her on a visit to the cemetery where Pertti had been buried. Looking at Perttis grave, Samuel said, several times: ”That is my grave.” On another occasion, when Marja was taking Samuel to the cemetery, Samuel said: “Now we are going to my grave.”


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 156
Page in Acrobat Reader: 159

19. Problem: Vague statements and lets not forget that the child could be referencing here not the mortuary but the cemetery where he also went with his mother as stated above:

Samuel commented on how much Pertti’s mother(Sameuls maternal grandmother, Anneli) cried for him. (This was a reference to Anneli’s grief after Pertti’s death.) Samuel also said that he had been taken to a place where there were a lot of coffins, some of them open. This was correct for Pertti, whose body had been taken to a mortuary after he died suddenly.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 156
Page in Acrobat Reader: 159

20. Problem: Even Ian Stevenson is skeptical here:

As I mentioned earlier, most of Samuel’s statements appeared to be stimulated by some person, photograph, or other object related to Pertti. He did, however, make a number of statements that seemed to be completely spontaneous expressions of memories. They also, however, may have received some stimulus not noticed by Marja, or Anneli.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 156
Page in Acrobat Reader: 159

21. Problem: This is a interpretation of the mother. Also he could be just playing a game he saw on TV or he created from his imagination. This happens a lot in children:

Sometimes Samuel was heard to speak to himself and say: “Oh, that poor fellow who died.” Marja assumed that in saying this, Samuel was remembering Pertti’s death.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 156
Page in Acrobat Reader: 159

22. Problem: This shows how he was attached and he could see this because his own mother did this to him. The child had only replaced his mother because he liked his grandmother more. This is normal in children. Many children like their grandparents more then their parents. Also another problem is that this happened in one occasion and it was not repeated. I smell cherry picking:

Samuel’s Attitudes Toward His Mother and Grandmother. I have already mentioned Samuel’s early tendency to call Marja by her name and to call Anneli ”Mother.” He was particularly attached to Anneli. On one occasion, when he was about 2 years old and had already been weaned, he sat on Anneli’s lap and tried to nurse at her breast. He said: “Mother, give me your breast.”


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 156
Page in Acrobat Reader: 159

23. Problem: Marja is a hard believer. She believes in telepathy. Also why does he call Anneli grandmother?:

One day Anneli was looking at photographs of family tombs and weeping. Just then Marja telephoned her and said Samuel had just said to her (Marja):”Little grandmother is weeping. Tell her not to cry.”(In this reference Samuel referred to Anneli as “little grandmother,” not as “Mother” or “Mummy” as he sometimes did. On several occasions Samuel was outside playing in the courtyard, when Marja decided to go shopping. Samuel unexpectedly came into the house, apparently wishing to accompany her. Marja believed a telepathic connection had stimulated Samuel to come into the house.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 157
Page in Acrobat Reader: 160

24. Problem: Even Stevenson is skeptical here and even shows that mother called him Pertti:

I think it important to mention again the weakness of same-family cases in which, with rare exceptions, all the subject’s statements refer to events, objects, or persons well known to the family members who are our informants for the cases. The possibility of an unwitting normal transmission of information to the subject becomes increased when someone in the family, Samuel’s mother in this case, expects the previous personality to be reborn. The cases of this type do, however, have the advantage that the informants for the subject’s behavior can immediately judge its revelance to the life of the previous personality. Marja acknowledged that she had become convinced Samuel was the reincarnation of Pertti to the point where she sometimes unthinkingly called him”Pertti.”(He always responded.) Marja knew that this was perhaps unwise. We should credit her with awareness of the influence of her conviction that Pertti had returned to her as Samuel.


Taken from: http://michaelsudduth.com/wp-content/up ... n-Type.pdf
Page in pdf: 158
Page in Acrobat Reader: 161

Conclusion of part 18: I must applaud here Ian Stevenson because he showed skeptical skills here and admitted that this is a weak example. He was not convinced here because he even showed a lot of problems this case has. I think however that Stevenson is biased but he will not buy everything. This case shows that. So like for him and for me this case does NOT prove reincarnation. This case also does NOT hint reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdfs so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:58 am

Part 19: One More Mission

Here is the last reincarnation case:

2009 ∗ One More Mission [ID#65] 285 Leininger


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

Pdf:http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75/case65_one-more-mission.pdf

This case was already covered here:

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005 ... ion_a.html

Also here by me:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22392

Also JREF:

http://forums.randi.org/archive/index.php/t-41365.html

They even released a book with a past-life expert:

Whatever your beliefs, after you read this book, they will never be the same.
"James Leininger story is the most compelling evidence so far for reincarnation."
--T.J. MacGregor,
Edgar-winning author, Running Time

The parents of James Leininger were first puzzled and then disturbed when their two-year-old son began screaming out chilling phrases during recurrent nightmares, such as, "Plane on fire! Little man can't get out!" The centerpiece of a loving family of three, James was a happy, playful toddler who had only just begun stringing together sentences. Determined to understand what was happening to their son, Bruce and Andrea set off on a journey of discovery that was to rock them to their core. For the more they researched the arcane comments and fragmented details little James revealed, the more they were drawn inescapably to a shocking conclusion: that James was reliving the life of James Huston, a World War II fighter pilot who was killed in the battle for Iwo Jima--over 60 years ago!


The book features stunning drawings from James illustrating his unshakable memories, and photos that bear an eerie resemblance between young James and James Huston, plus a Foreword from world-renowned past lives expert Carol Bowman. In SOUL SURVIVOR, readers will come to know and believe in the special child who harbors the soul of a man who died in 1945.

Through painstaking research and conversations with war veterans and surviving family members of James Huston, Bruce and Andrea were forced to confront their skepticism and re-examine their entire belief system. In the process, they not only managed to solve the mystery of their son’s statements. They even discovered revelations about James Huston’s life and wartime experiences that were finally to bring peace and healing to his loved ones, decades after his death.


Taken from: http://www.soulsurvivor-book.com/

The Authors of the book. The claim that authors were skeptical towards reincarnation is getting lame. If they were skeptical they would not make a book:

Bruce C. Leininger was born and raised in New Jersey to working class parents. He worked his way through college, graduating with a B.A. from Fairleigh Dickinson University and an M.A. from Columbia University Graduate School. In 1990 he relocated to Dallas, Texas.


Taken from: http://www.soulsurvivor-book.com/authors.html

Andrea Scoggin Leininger was born in Detroit, Michigan and raised in Plano, Texas, a suburb of Dallas. As the second of four children from a traditional southern family, she has an older brother, Jeff, and two younger sisters, Jennifer and Becky. Andrea was an artistic child who excelled at art, dance, and writing, and spent each summer during her teen years studying ballet in New York and San Francisco. After graduating from High School, she pursued a professional ballet career, dancing for 10 years with various companies across the country. Her dance career took her back to Dallas, Texas, where she met and married Bruce Leininger, to whom she has been married for 17 years.


Taken from: http://www.soulsurvivor-book.com/authors.html

Ken Gross is a native of the Bronx. He served in the regular army for three years before becoming a journalist. He was an investigative reporter. a columnist before becoming an author. He has written or ghosted 16 books - including "The Victims," "The Verdict," "I Got The Show Right Here!" - before co-authoring "Soul Survivor." He lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Andrea. an editor at the New York Times. They have three children and no pets. While he is a skeptic about reincarnation, he is unable to explain the phenomenon of just what happened to James, although he is convinced that something inexplicable took place. The Leiningers made an impression that will pass this lifetime.


Taken from: http://www.soulsurvivor-book.com/authors.html

So nothing more to say here really that its debunked.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:39 pm

New case:

1879 The Return of Mary Roff [ID#45] 270 Myers


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_26-50 ... return.pdf

This was already debunked:

Upon reviewing the case, psychologist Frank Sargent Hoffman regarded Vennum as "a typical case of hysterical impersonation" and wrote that there was no evidence Vennum had knowledge she could not have obtained by normal means. Hoffman wrote that the grieving Roff family "did everything in their power" to encourage Vennum "that she was their Mary."[4] Journalist Henry Addington Bruce characterized Vennum as "unduly suggestible", saying that "it may safely be declared that the phenomena manifested through Lurancy Vennum were not a whit more other-worldly than the phenomena produced by tricksters whom Hodgson himself so skillfully and mercifully exposed." Bruce wrote that recurrences of the "Mary personality" appeared "only when the Roff's paid her visits, and that they ceased entirely upon her marriage to a man not interested in spiritism and her removal to a distant part of the country."[1]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watseka_Wonder#Critics

Also here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=110565

So I will not look into this.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:51 pm

Here is another case I do not need to debunk:

1898 ∗ Friends and Strangers [ID#48] 275 Hodgson


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_26-50 ... angers.pdf

Here is the debunking:

The psychical researcher Richard Hodgson who investigated Piper was caught in an act of deception. Hodgson had claimed Professor Fiske from his séance with Piper was "absolutely convinced" Piper's control was the real George Pellew, however, when Pellew's brother contacted Fiske about it, he replied it was "a lie" as Piper had been "silent or entirely wrong" on all his questions.[25]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonora_Piper

Also here are some information:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21051&start=40
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20172
http://www.skepdic.com/piper.html
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=251530
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:47 pm

New case:

2004 The Murder of Jacqueline Poole [ID#69] 267 Playfair


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml

Here is the pdf:http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75/case69_poole.pdf

This was already discussed and debunked and even in the pdf. It is written that several things are possible, so it debunks itself in the end.

However it was already discussed here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=9518

Debunked here:

http://www.aske-skeptics.org.uk/jacquel ... urder.html

Nothing more to add to this.
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Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby 51manorroad » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:39 am

Shen1986 wrote:Part 11: Family Lost and Found

Here is the new case:

1993 Family Lost and Found [ID#61] 270 Cockell


Taken from: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/top40-main.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The pdf: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1. Problem: This whole tale smells like Hollywood with some reincarnation and on top:

Tis and oft-told tale, both sad and inspiring: a woman driven by guilt and worry strives to locate the family she was forced to abandon years before. There’s a most uncommon twist to the tale Jenny Cockell tells, however for when she finally finds her lost children, they are all several decades older then their mother. From a very young, age Jenny Cockell (pronounced ki-Kell) was plagued by unexplained dreams and visions in which she was a woman named Mary.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

2. Problem: Jenny Cockell is a New Age writer:

Jenny Cockell (born in 1953) is an English author who in the mid-1990s came to fame for her book about reincarnation called Across Time and Death: A Mother's Search for her Past Life Children (ISBN 0-671-88986-9). In the book, Cockell discusses her "past life memories" of life as Mary Sutton in early-20th century Ireland. The book chronicles Cockell's research into Sutton's life and Cockell's subsequent "reunion" with Sutton's children, some whom accept Cockell as the reincarnation of their mother.

Cockell only wrote the story to share it; she wasn't a writer before. She wrote it so that she could talk about it herself.

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is that she is a New Age writer:

Categories: Living people
New Age writers
Reincarnation
1953 births
English writer stubs


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3. Problem: She is a hard believer:

Jenny Cockell (born in 1953) is an English author who in the mid-1990s came to fame for her book about reincarnation called Across Time and Death: A Mother's Search for her Past Life Children (ISBN 0-671-88986-9). In the book, Cockell discusses her "past life memories" of life as Mary Sutton in early-20th century Ireland. The book chronicles Cockell's research into Sutton's life and Cockell's subsequent "reunion" with Sutton's children, some whom accept Cockell as the reincarnation of their mother.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More info:

Cockell is also the author of Past Lives, Future Lives (ISBN 0-684-83216-X), in which she discussed her visions of what she believes will be her future lives, among these a girl, Nadja in Nepal around


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4. Problem: She is making a living out of it because it was adapted into a movie. I bet this is the reason she wrote it because if her beliefs are true then she would not desire money for it because there is karma you know and good deeds:
The publisher's sold film rights to the book they published because publishers want to make money. She just wanted to share the story.

Jenny Cockell (born in 1953) is an English author who in the mid-1990s came to fame for her book about reincarnation called Across Time and Death: A Mother's Search for her Past Life Children (ISBN 0-671-88986-9). In the book, Cockell discusses her "past life memories" of life as Mary Sutton in early-20th century Ireland. The book chronicles Cockell's research into Sutton's life and Cockell's subsequent "reunion" with Sutton's children, some whom accept Cockell as the reincarnation of their mother.

In 2000, CBS aired Yesterday's Children, which was a made-for-TV movie adaptation of Cockell's book, with Jane Seymour in the title role. For the TV movie, however, Jenny Cockell was referred to as "Jenny Cole," and the story was slightly rewritten with Jenny Cole being an American as opposed to British citizen.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

5. Problem: She is a writer here are her publications:

Publications[edit]
Yesterday’s Children: The Extraordinary Search for my Past Life Family, Piatkus, 1993
Across Time and Death: A Mother's Search for Her Past Life Children, Piatkus, 1994
Past Lives, Future Lives: One Woman's Extraordinary Experiences of Other Lifetimes, Piatkus, 1996
Journeys Through Time: Uncovering My Past Lives, Piatkus, 2008


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_Cockell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But is dyslexic and only became a writer to share what happened

6. Problem: I sincerely doubt she dreamed every night about such things. This whole sounds like a romantic tale more and more:

She seemed to be reliving Mary’s life or, more often re-dying Mary’s death. Night after night, Jenny’s dream dreams were filled with the panic of a 30-something woman lying in a hospital bed, racked with pain yet suffering even more from the thought of dying and forsaking her children.

Children do have recurring nightmares
Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

7. Problem: She had even visions during the day. Wow she should have seen some psychiatrist:

During the day, Cockell’s visions were of more pleasant times with the woman’s numerous children – she could envision at at least seven of them, but she felt that there may have been more.

Most people have memories during the day.
Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

8. Problem: She felt there is more? Wow why again is everyone working with their guts and not head. Why people are you so foolish if people were using more their brains and not guts we would not have the financial crisis as we now do or less people would get divorced:

During the day, Cockell’s visions were of more pleasant times with the woman’s numerous children – she could envision at at least seven of them, but she felt that there may have been more.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

9. Problem: She somehow knew it was in Ireland. Wow another gut feeling and she again had visions which were like memories to her. Wow I am speechless. This sounds like a fairy tale made by a child:

In addition to Mary’s children and her final hours, the young Cockell had visions(which seemed like memories to her) of a home and village that, although she had never traveled outside England, she somehow knew were located in Ireland.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

10. Problem: So yeah it’s a child fantasy because she began to do this when she was a child and envisioned herself as a reincarnation and again felt there are two brothers:

As a child, she often drew maps of this village and described her home as a two-room cottage, sitting first on the left of a country lane and turned sideways to it. She envisioned where the cottages windows were and what pictures hung on the interior walls. She felt that Mary had two older brothers who had gone away from the area. Altogether, Jenny Cockell had memories involving scores of minutia about a place far away and a life that ended some 21 years before she was born.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

11. Problem: She at school found the town in a map. So again she could just make it up because she did not have visions or memories of the town but found it in a map as a child:

At school, Cockell studied a map of Ireland and felt drawn to the town of Malahide about 10 miles north of Dublin. She longed to travel there and confirm her visions, but it was not until she was 33 years of age and a married mother with two children of her own that she managed get the money, the time, and the confidence to make the trip. Once she discovered that her inner-knowledge of the town did actually match quite well with current reality, Cockell was emboldened to begin a determined quest to locate and contact Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

12. Problem: She traveled there when she was 33 years old. She could have learned all this knowledge before and then go there:
Except all of the private family details that the Sutton's had never shared.
At school, Cockell studied a map of Ireland and felt drawn to the town of Malahide about 10 miles north of Dublin. She longed to travel there and confirm her visions, but it was not until she was 33 years of age and a married mother with two children of her own that she managed get the money, the time, and the confidence to make the trip. Once she discovered that her inner-knowledge of the town did actually match quite well with current reality, Cockell was emboldened to begin a determined quest to locate and contact Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

13. Problem: Malahide is a know city. Why does everyone choose a known city who claims is reincarnated?:

At school, Cockell studied a map of Ireland and felt drawn to the town of Malahide about 10 miles north of Dublin. She longed to travel there and confirm her visions, but it was not until she was 33 years of age and a married mother with two children of her own that she managed get the money, the time, and the confidence to make the trip. Once she discovered that her inner-knowledge of the town did actually match quite well with current reality, Cockell was emboldened to begin a determined quest to locate and contact Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

Here is the info:

Malahide (Irish: Mullach Íde) is a coastal suburban town near Dublin city it is administered by Fingal County Council commonly described as County Dublin, Ireland. There are extensive residential areas to the south, west and northwest of the village.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malahide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More info:

History[edit][show]
Historical population


While there are some remnants of prehistoric activity, Malahide is known to have become a persistent settlement from the coming of the Vikings, who landed in 795, and used Malahide Estuary (along with Baldoyle) as a convenient base. With the arrival of the Anglo-Normans, the last Danish King of Dublin retired to the area in 1171. From the 1180s, the history of the area is tied to that of the Talbot family of Malahide Castle, who were granted extensive lands in the area and over the centuries following developed their estate, and the small harbour settlement.


There is an ancient covered well, St. Sylvester's, on the old main street (Old Street, previously Chapel Street), which used to have a "pattern" to Our Lady each August 15.

In 1475 Thomas Talbot, head of the Talbot family of Malahide Castle, was granted the title Admiral of the port of Malahide by King Edward IV, with power to hold admiralty courts and levy customs duties on all merchandise coming into the port. The office was to be hereditary.[5]

By the early 19th century, the village had a population of over 1000, and a number of local industries, including salt harvesting, while the harbour continued in commercial operation, with landings of coal and construction materials. By 1831, the population had reached 1223. The area grew in popularity in Georgian times as a seaside resort for wealthy Dublin city dwellers. This is still evident today from the fine collection of Georgian houses in the town and along the seafront, and Malahide is still a popular spot for day-trippers, especially in the summer months.

In the 1960s, developers began to build housing estates around the village core of Malahide, launching the first, Ard na Mara in 1964. Further estates followed, to the northwest, south and west, but the village core remained intact, with the addition of a "marina apartment complex" development adjacent to the village green.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malahide#History" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

14. Problem: She looked everywhere to find the family. So its also plausible she could have been looking for information about the city itself:

She scoured libraries, spoke with priests, wrote letters to historical societies and orphanages, placed newspaper ads, underwent hypnosis, and even made calls to names found in Irelands phone books. Her search went into high gear when she located a man who had lived in Malahide as a youth. He had gone to school, he said with some children whose mothers name was Mary and who had lived with a large number of siblings in a two-room cottage that sat sideways, first on the left from the start of Swords lane.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

15. Problem: She could not recall the surname but this is strange in one case above(the submarine soldier reincarnation case) the person was able to recall the surname:

The family’s last name, he said, was Sutton. This surname, which Cockell had never been able to recall, was the key that enabled her to locate, contact, meet, and ultimately befriend five of Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

15. Problem: She first claimed there were at least seven children and now she found only 5? The problem is we do not know the precise number:

During the day, Cockell’s visions were of more pleasant times with the woman’s numerous children – she could envision at at least seven of them, but she felt that there may have been more.

She claimed there were 8 children and found 5 because the others had died. There were indeed 8 children.
Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

Here is the number of children:

The family’s last name, he said, was Sutton. This surname, which Cockell had never been able to recall, was the key that enabled her to locate, contact, meet, and ultimately befriend five of Mary’s children.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 1

16. Problem: I smell the reason for this and the cooperation of others. She did not only sell her story to make a book and a movie. She also appeared in many shows:

Also, she has appeared, either along or with Mary’s 60- and 70-something children, on several televised programs including, in the U.S., 20/20 with Barbara Walters, Donahue, Sightings and the The Unexplained.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 2
When someone wants to share an experience and a publisher wants publicity a writer is obliged to do unpaid publicity.
17. Problem: The criticism of Joe Nickells work is pathetic:

Just to take one example, an article in the Skeptical Inquirer says, in part: She turned then to actual research, publishing an ad in a Mensa magazine, sending out numerous form letters, acquiring maps, and so on. Eventually she turned up a village (Malahide), a road (Swords Road), and finally a woman named Mary Sutton who roughly fit the target…. Unfortunately, Cockell’s intriguing and no doubt sincere saga does not withstand critical analysis. First, consider the overwhelming lack of factual information provided by the dreams and hypnosis. Unknown were Mary’s surname, either maiden or married, or the names of her husband or children. Similarly, the village’s name and even its location were a mystery.”

Apparently, this critic had not taken the trouble to actually read the book he is denigrating, for it clearly states that Cockell, while she was still a young girl, had selected the town of Malahide using a map of Ireland in her school atlas. A map that was far too small of scale to allow any matching with the sketches she had made. So, the village was not ”turned up” as part of her adult research and neither its name nor its location “were a mystery”. Furthermore, while its true that every name could not be recalled, this critic manages to avoid mentioning the many “unknowable” details that Cockell did know about the children and the events in the family’s life. The eldest boy was in his seventies when he stated on record that she knew things about his childhood that even his brothers and sisters did not know.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 2

1. The skeptic/ critic did make the time to read the book as we can see here:

Therein, as a self-described “withdrawn and nervous child,” she relates how she frequently woke sobbing with her “memories of Mary’s death” and her expressed “fear for the children I was leaving behind” (p. 1). In addition to her childhood dreams, she would frequently echo Mary’s domestic work during her play: making “bread” by mixing grass seeds in water, sweeping with a broom, and acting out other chores (p. 14). “I was also constantly tidying and clearing out my room and toys,” she writes, “something that I enjoyed almost more than playing with them” (p. 5). At this time, she did not know Mary’s last name and was unaware of countless other details about her origins and life. Somewhat artistically inclined, Jenny frequently sketched maps of Mary’s Irish village, although there were admitted variations in the supposed landmarks (p. 5).


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or here:

Among the reasons for Jenny’s withdrawal was the unhappy atmosphere of her home, there being, as she described it, “an impossible tension” between her parents (p. 14). “I usually played alone,” she writes, “and the only company I regularly enjoyed was that of my two imaginary male friends” (p. 15). Although she had a high IQ (which would later earn her membership in Mensa, the “genius” society), she reports that she was thought a slow learner due to her “dreamlike state of mind” that carried even into the classroom (p. 15).


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or here:

Although she describes her supposed memories as “dreams” and refers to her “private trance world” in which she was “oblivious to external activity,” the memories were vivid and seemingly real. As is often the case, this was especially so under hypnosis. In 1988 — by then married and the mother of two young children — Cockell was hypnotized for the first time. Under hypnosis, she seemingly became Mary. “I cried as she cried,” she states; “I knew her pain as my own” (p. 33).


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or here. Nickell is even using it in his sources:

References
Baker, Robert A. 1992. Hidden Memories: Voices and Visions from Within. Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books.
Cockell, Jenny. 1993. Across Time and Death: A Mother’s Search for Her Past Life Children. New York: Simon and Schuster.
Wilson, Sheryl C., and Theodore X. Barber. 1983. “The fantasy-prone personality” in Imagery, Current Theory, Research and Application, ed. Anees A. Sheikh, New York: Wiley, pp. 340-390.


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. Problem: This claim is dubious and even a rational person will laugh at it. She chosen the town in a atlas book in school because she loved the name as a child and incorporated it into her beliefs:

Apparently, this critic had not taken the trouble to actually read the book he is denigrating, for it clearly states that Cockell, while she was still a young girl, had selected the town of Malahide using a map of Ireland in her school atlas. A map that was far too small of scale to allow any matching with the sketches she had made.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 2

According to the skeptic/critic she had a bad childhood and therefore created this fantasy:

Among the reasons for Jenny’s withdrawal was the unhappy atmosphere of her home, there being, as she described it, “an impossible tension” between her parents (p. 14). “I usually played alone,” she writes, “and the only company I regularly enjoyed was that of my two imaginary male friends” (p. 15). Although she had a high IQ (which would later earn her membership in Mensa, the “genius” society), she reports that she was thought a slow learner due to her “dreamlike state of mind” that carried even into the classroom (p. 15).


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

3. Problem: He stated at record but where on a TV show which wanted to sell?:

The eldest boy was in his seventies when he stated on record that she knew things about his childhood that even his brothers and sisters did not know.


Taken form: http://www.aeces.info/Top40/Cases_51-75 ... sutton.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 2

4. Problem: The author of the pdf does not debunk everything. He does not contradict other stuff what Nickell wrote here:

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like this one:

Although she describes her supposed memories as “dreams” and refers to her “private trance world” in which she was “oblivious to external activity,” the memories were vivid and seemingly real. As is often the case, this was especially so under hypnosis. In 1988 — by then married and the mother of two young children — Cockell was hypnotized for the first time. Under hypnosis, she seemingly became Mary. “I cried as she cried,” she states; “I knew her pain as my own” (p. 33). Tears rolled uncontrollably down her cheeks. Although under hypnosis she seemed to exist partly in the past and partly the present, she says: “Yet I was Mary, and the past had become very real. I could smell the grass on the slopes outside a large farmhouse, and I breathed in the fresh spring air” (p. 36). Again, “As the questions were being asked and answered in this strange, mechanical way, I seemed to be free to wander through the places I saw — tangible, vivid places. I felt the wind in my hair; I could touch and smell the air as though I were there” (p. 37).

Under hypnosis she also explored what she believed were her “psychic abilities.” In addition to her past-life memories, she was already convinced she had the power of psychometry (object reading) and dream premonitions (pp. 13, 28). The hypnotic sessions also took her on an out-of-body experience as part of a dubious test of clairvoyance. (Also, in an earlier session, as “Mary,” she had died, then went out of body to see the surroundings of her “now vacant body” [pp. 40, 55].)


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now lets continue with my criticism on this case:

18. Problem: I found this very interesting in the book itself. This shows that there can be memories from childhood at play as Nickell wrote and I think the same even before reading his stuff:

When Mary died, I felt that there was one younger child and that there were seven or eight of them in all, but I was not confident about the details. I seem, for some reason, to have remembered one blonde child particularly, for my favorite childhood doll had slightly curly, sandy blonde hair. She had an ingenious mechanism which enabled her eyes to change colour, but I always kept them at blue. Essentially a baby doll, she has remained in my possession, dressed in baby clothes, to this day.


Taken form: http://www.amazon.com/Across-Time-And-D ... 0671889869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: 3

18. Problem: The only person who reviewed the book is Dr. Brian L. Weiss the author of Many lives, Many Masters and Through Time into healing

It can be seen here:

Taken form: http://www.amazon.com/Across-Time-And-D ... 0671889869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Page: Last Page

Brain L. Weiss is another hard believer in reincarnation:

Brian Leslie Weiss (born November 6, 1944) is an American psychiatrist. His research includes reincarnation, past life regression, future-life progression, and survival of the human soul after death.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Weiss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More info:

Past life regression and future life progression[edit]

According to Weiss, in 1980 one of his patients, "Catherine", began discussing past-life experiences under hypnosis. Weiss did not believe in reincarnation at the time but, after confirming elements of Catherine's stories through public records, came to be convinced of the survival of an element of the human personality after death.[5] Weiss claims he has regressed more than 4,000 patients since 1980.

Weiss advocates hypnotic regression as therapy, claiming that many phobias and ailments are rooted in past-life experiences whose acknowledgment by the patient can have a curative effect. Weiss also writes about messages received from the Ascended masters he claims to have communicated with through his subjects. Critics[who?], however, have pointed out historical inaccuracies[which?] and anachronisms[which?] in Weiss's accounts of hypnotic regression to past eras, and also question how his subjects are able to speak of a past life having been in the "BC era" when that system of dating did not exist then.[citation needed] Weiss has explained such apparent discrepancies as the work of what he terms the superconscious mind, a state of hyperconscious awareness.


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Weiss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More info on Weiss:

Weiss lives with his wife Carole in Miami, Florida, where he writes and conducts public seminars and workshops on the subject of reincarnation.[1] His daughter Amy E. Weiss is the co-author of his 2012 book Miracles Happen: The Transformational Healing Power of Past-Life Memories.[11]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Weiss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Books from Weiss:

Many Lives, Many Masters: The True Story of a Prominent Psychiatrist, His Young Patient, and the Past-Life Therapy That Changed Both Their Lives (1988). ISBN 0-671-65786-0
Through Time into Healing: Discovering the Power of Regression Therapy to Erase Trauma and Transform Mind, Body and Relationships (1993). ISBN 0-7499-1835-7.
Only Love Is Real: A Story of Soulmates Reunited (1997) ISBN 0-7499-1620-6.
Messages From the Masters: Tapping into the Power of Love (2001). ISBN 0-7499-2167-6
Mirrors of Time: Using Regression for Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Healing (2002). ISBN 1-5617-0929-8.
Same Soul, Many Bodies: Discover the Healing Power of Future Lives through Progression Therapy (2005). ISBN 0-7499-2


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Weiss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the criticism of Weiss:

http://weshagen.wordpress.com/2010/05/2 ... ian-weiss/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the whole criticism from Joe Nickell on this case:

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/case_of_r ... eexamined/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Conclusion of part 11: What to say. It was already debunked. I just took down the criticism made of Joe Nickells work and showed more reasons why I think this is not valid. This whole story sounds to me like a typical child fantasy made by a small child who later on decided to sell a book about it and become famous because the child grew up and realized it would sell because there are so many TV series and movies like this but she added a twist into it in the form of reincarnation. For me this is a closed case because the book came out in the 1990 and her past live was in the early-20th century. So she could have found everything about it. For me this case does NOT prove reincarnation. This case does NOT even hint reincarnation.

Note: I had to re-write the whole sentences from the pdf so there can be some grammar errors but the main idea is consistent.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10678
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: The 20 Most Convincing Spirit-Contact Cases

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:51 pm

51man: my impression is you don't think much of one of the top 20 Most Convincing Spirit Cases? In your mind, did you take on the strongest or the weakest or just first noticed of the top 20?

And as fully debunking this one as you have....... what's your interest in the subject?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?


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