Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby noneed2014 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:46 am

I have recently become aware of the story of Anita Moorjani via a Facebook post and yesterday I ordered her paperback from Amazon; it's on its way to me. However Amazon provide a large element of the book online, once you have ordered a copy, so I have already seen quite a large portion of the book.

MY CONCERN having watched numerous videos of her speeches and interviews ( and assuming the book contains no photographic evidence) I FIND IT VERY ODD there is little to no mention of the actual medical records, her husband has never been seen or heard or others that day at the hospital, insofar as I can establish/research. What would have been compelling would be copies of all or any medical records or results. Photos of her during the immediate days prior to admission to the hospital, or even in the hospital.

We are simply fed a substantial amount of irrelevant information on her childhood etc...

Why have the " most important " elements not been published or fully verified.

I would love to be convinced, in fact I want to be convinced, but the book in itself immediately opens up the skeptical criticism and to write so much about her earlier life and beliefs is not encouraging for me. Photos, Medical Records, witnesses as to her actual bodily state when admitted to hospital etc... would have gone a long way to explaining this story...

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:57 pm

Hi, noneed2014. Welcome to the forum.

As to the medical records, there's a discussion about them here, and it would seem they would not confirm parts of her story about the illness.
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby dissturbbed » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:29 pm

All lies
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Shen1986 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:03 am

Her cancer is easy to treat. So I agree with others who wrote here:

Five-year relative survival by stage at diagnosis[50]
Stage at diagnosis Five-year relative
survival (%) Percentage
of cases (%)
Localized (confined to primary site) 82.1 27
Regional (spread to regional lymph nodes) 77.5 19
Distant (cancer has metastasized) 59.9 45
Unknown (unstaged) 67.5 9


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymphoma

Also here:

Survival rates are often used by doctors as a standard way of discussing a person’s prognosis (outlook). Some people with Hodgkin disease may want to know the survival statistics for people in similar situations, while others may not find the numbers helpful, or might even not want to know them. If you do not want to see Hodgkin disease survival statistics, skip to the next section.

The rates below are based on the stage of the cancer when it is first diagnosed. When looking at survival rates, it’s important to understand that the stage of a cancer does not change over time, even if the cancer progresses. If a cancer comes back or spreads, the survival rates may be different from those shown below.

The 5-year survival rate is the percentage of patients who live at least 5 years after their cancer is diagnosed. Of course, many of these people live much longer than 5 years, and many are cured.

The numbers below are among the most current available. But to get 5-year survival rates, doctors have to look at people who were treated at least 5 years ago. Improvements in treatment since then might result in a better outlook for people now being diagnosed with these cancers.

The numbers below come from the National Cancer Institute’s SEER database, looking at more than 8,000 people diagnosed with Hodgkin disease between 1988 and 2001.

Stage
5-year Survival Rate

I
About 90%

II
About 90%

III
About 80%

IV
About 65%


Taken from: http://www.cancer.org/cancer/hodgkindis ... ival-rates

Also her claims are quite strange for which she was criticized:

Teachings[edit]

Moorjani’s experience with cancer and brush with death has inspired her work as an author and speaker. She asserts that her cancer was caused by her emotional state, and preaches the message that a person's physical health is affected by their emotional well being.
Criticism and Skepticism[edit]

There are many skeptics that denounce Anita's Near Death Experience and criticize the message that she speaks. Vicky Allen of The Herald Scotland states "These people are at the centre of a disturbing approach to illness, and cancer in particular, that sees it as a disease to be tackled with the mind and positive thinking. It is a movement which many within the medical establishment believe is dangerous." Dr Peter Allmark of Sheffield Hallam University, co-author of a 2011 paper, A Critique Of Positive Thinking In Cancer Care, denounces the approach as "quackery."[11]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Moorjani
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby AllenAllen » Fri May 20, 2016 7:04 pm

The following is not an opinion on NDE's or miracles but just a comment on this case:

You can't even start to evaluate it because there is no verifiable 'start point' to her story. There are no provided medical records, no confirmation that she was ill, let alone dying, let alone dead (briefly.)

You can't have an NDE without the 'D' part (Death.)

We have a woman telling a story. That is all. Not worth much of our time. There are untold explanations on why she's telling this story. Sure, that includes the possibility that her tale is 100% factual but that is only one of many in an open world of explanations. It isn't binary: Honest person or Scammer.

Start at the beginning, at the premise. Use your noodle. :-)

The lack of medical records and statements by doctors and family members makes further thought on this uninteresting to me.

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Gord » Sat May 21, 2016 3:18 am

AllenAllen wrote:AllenAllen

Cool. I thought I had double vision for a moment. DoubleDouble visionvision forfor aa momentmoment.
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat May 21, 2016 5:42 am

Seems double vision and AA often pair up...




And welcome welcome AllenAllen. :wave:
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby gorgeous » Sat May 21, 2016 2:11 pm

Where are the scientific papers to prove it???!!! Nothing is real without scientific papers!!!!! ...them's the science :rulez:
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby DarkEnergy29 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:48 pm

"Hodgkin’s disease is quite curable. It can have a dramatic response to chemotherapy. It was a remarkable recovery. But I feel it was the chemotherapy, definitely, and the emergency draining of the chest.” Dr. Chan

That's a very strong statement from a scientific, medical professional. It is credible. She wasn't cured all by herself, without intervention, in other words. She had intensive medical treatment. Whether or not Moorjani recognizes this is not the point.

The other medical professional, Dr. Long, while more reticent, simply refers back to medical literature stating, in effect, there are seemingly near-miraculous cases of recovery in the medical field, but he did not definitively state that he thought this was the case in Moorjani's situation. Chemotherapy works with this disease, all the way to through the later stages.

Moorjani did not die, but remained alive, and even she states she was often aware of activities around her while everyone else thought she was in a coma, and maybe she was, but not necessarily a deep coma. It is not a seminal, near-death experience, when compared to other, much more striking, actual-death experience cases of cardiac arrests.

This case has been lauded as one of the most definitive near-death experiences ever. As such, we do great disservice to those experiences which are far more compelling, and puts at risk the hard-fought reputation of some serious researchers, in the public domain, when/if the public at large recognizes that this case is not the groundbreaking experience we've been led to believe it is.

Ms. Moorjani expresses many popular new-age views which are enticing to the public, and have been promoted by the late, beloved new-age guru, Dr. Wayne Dyer. As such, in the public's collective mind, they carry more weight. So goes the cult of celebrity, in our culture, and it is a very stubborn perception, which is nearly impossible to fight with reason.
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:25 pm

Dyer the liar croaked? What did him in, an STD?

And is he speaking his Intention from beyond?
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby DarkEnergy29 » Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:25 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Dyer the liar croaked? What did him in, an STD?

And is he speaking his Intention from beyond?


First of all, lol... Second,

Dyer became ill with leukemia. He scoured the Internet for near-death experience accounts, and came upon Moorjani's, at which point he contacted her, himself seeking unconventional methods of "healing."

He became enraptured with Moorjani's supposed miraculous healing from cancer, and I think it was hinted that he, himself, forwent conventional therapies, but the truth of that is unclear. Either way, although no official cause of death was listed (go figure!) he likely succumbed to his disease, but didn't want the largely pseudo-scientific healing methods he championed exposed for the frauds they were (strong word to use, I know, because there is evidence of a mind-body connection & disease, but Dyer went dangerously beyond that boundary).

Dyer often made claims of the effectiveness of these alternative healing methods, and it is possible a number of people, mimicking his rather reckless behavior, have succumbed, or will succumb, to their own diseases, when they could've been saved by conventional medicine. I find that unconscionable.

My suspicions continue about Moorjani, not only regarding the obvious fact that medical intervention vastly improved the chances of saving her life (and I'm not knocking anyone's faith here; I'm merely stating treatment was effective) but by her continued insistence it didn't. That is reckless and irresponsible. She has transformed into something of a cult-like figure herself in NDE circles, as well as other spiritual circles, becoming a relative & sudden expert on all things spiritual.

Dyer, out of his understandable need to preserve his own life, while preserving his pseudo-science legacy, bestowed upon Moorjani, a kind of royal (and lucrative) title of "New-Age *Queen* & Guru," taking over where he left off. I wish no one ill will, but at his death, it would've been preferable that the more dangerous claims he has made, died with him.

This is not the case, and we now have a Dyer-esque heralder who is spreading a likely, dangerous, anti-conventional medicine message in Moorjani. I hope I'm wrong.

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:03 am

Thanks for the rundown and welcome to SSF, Your Darkness. :-P

And I think that stress and anxiety could very well be "because there is evidence of a mind-body connection & disease" examples of that...
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Shen1986 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:46 am

Sorry to return to this thread but found a article about her. Even there it is claimed she received normal treatment along with chemotherapy. Lets just ignore the hype Peter Ko made about it. It does not matter the biggest thing matters is that even Peter Ko agreed that she was on chemotherapy and therefore received normal treatment. It looks there is no real miracle at hand just normal therapy that started to work. It can happen sometimes:

Peter Ko, MD, an assistant clinical professor at the University of California, heard about Moorjani’s recovery and decided to investigate. He gained access, with her permission, to her medical records. His summary of what he found in those records is given on Moorjani’s website.

He concluded: “Her recovery was certainly remarkable. Based on my own experience and opinions of several colleagues, I am unable to attribute her dramatic recovery to her chemotherapy.”


Source: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2043141 ... as-result/

The same what I wrote about is even on her own page. So she received normal treatment:

Her recovery was certainly “remarkable.” Based on my own experience and opinions of several colleagues, I am unable to attribute her dramatic recovery to her chemotherapy. Based on what we have learned about cancer cell behaviors, I speculate that something (non-physical . . . “information”?) either switched off the mutated genes from expressing, or signaled them to a programmed cell death. The exact mechanism is unknown to us, but not likely to be the result of cytotoxic drugs.


Source: http://anitamoorjani.com/report-dr-peter-ko/

Again forget the pseudo-science talk that something non-physical happened that cured her. We see here again that she went through a normal therapy as a normal patient and I believe that saved her. It would be really foolish to believe that all you need against cancer is a NDE and you are cured.

Its official she received a very good treatment to begin with. The rest is mambo-jambo even her own doctor admits that:

Anita Moorjani claims she cured herself of cancer after she underwent a near-death experience. Not surprisingly, doctors take a different view. But they concede that she appeared to be dying and that her recovery was remarkable.

Oncologist haematologist T.K. Chan was one of those who treated Moorjani last February when she was admitted to the Hong Kong Sanatorium Hospital and says she was close to death.

Chan and the other specialists tapped her chest to drain her lungs, which he says probably saved her life. They then began chemotherapy, a treatment she had refused for 31/2 years.

'Hodgkin's disease is quite curable,' says Chan. 'It can have a dramatic response to chemotherapy. If it had been another cancer patient in her state, I wouldn't have expected her to survive, but with lymphoma, it's never too late.

'Whether the spiritual experience helped, I'm not in a position to say. Let's just say she did do a little better than expected as a patient who was critically ill. It was a remarkable recovery. But I feel it was the chemotherapy, definitely, and the emergency draining of the chest.

'To be scientific, if she refused treatment from us and recovered, it could be due to her experience, but she did receive chemotherapy so it's not something absolute.'


Source: http://www.scmp.com/article/580612/rema ... rn-science
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Kamil » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:49 pm

Interesting analysis. I am becoming more of a skeptic about some of these cases myself. First of all, if I remember correctly (and please, correct me if I am wrong) there isn't even any proof that Peter Ko exists. I read some forms on this, and they were saying that they looked for a Peter Ko, and that no one has been able to find him. Another thing I wonder is even if this sudden recovery was unexplainable, how does it prove NDEs? We don't know what caused the recovery, so why jump to the conclusion that it was a result of the NDE?

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:19 pm

many people who have had nde's have had immediate healing of their illnesses...might be the contact with the Light that did it...
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:27 pm

gorgeous wrote:many people who have had nde's have had immediate healing of their illnesses...might be the contact with the Light that did it...

It was just a regular visit and the light was for your doctor to see the condition of your throat. It was the antibiotics that cleared it up. :roll:
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:29 pm

alien visits work too....cancer, aids, heart conditions gone after being abducted...
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:30 pm

gorgeous wrote:alien visits work too....cancer, aids, heart conditions gone after being abducted...

They aren't aliens. They are orderlies. :roll:
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:01 pm

Kamil wrote:Interesting analysis. I am becoming more of a skeptic about some of these cases myself. First of all, if I remember correctly (and please, correct me if I am wrong) there isn't even any proof that Peter Ko exists.

You are on the right track. You will note that all of these stories are second hand anecdotes and you can tell they are merely urban rumours, because the details of the same stories change every time another person tells the same story.

You, yourself said there where no anecdotes of Muslim NDEs and claimed that was gospel, yet a little research showed exactly the opposite was true. The reason is that paranormal NDEs are a fiction from historic fictional literature and thus no scientist bothers doing serious research into paranormal NDEs.
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:You, yourself said there where no anecdotes of Muslim NDEs and claimed that was gospel, yet a little research showed exactly the opposite was true. The reason is that paranormal NDEs are a fiction from historic fictional literature and thus no scientist bothers doing serious research into paranormal NDEs.


Its true what I read that Muslim NDE are rare but they still are some even met with Allah:

"During both these experiences I received the following teachings":
1)Show good behaviour to all creation.
2) Love all creation.
3) Don’t hurt anyone.
4) Give people their rights.
5) Don’t forget the rights of Allah (God).
6) Do every deed in a good way, with the right intention, and for the pleasure of God.
7) When doing something for the first time, if you feel it is wrong, leave it, and don’t do it again.
8) Eat halal (permissible) provisions and earn your money in a halal (permissible and ethical) way and be strict about honesty.
9) Man has no control over many things in his life such as his skin color, his language, his feelings, and his temperament. These are from the will of God.
10) Whenever a person is in doubt about his actions, he should consult with a knowledgeable person and correct himself. (Jaffri, 2001)**.
Source:Joel Ibrahim Kreps, M.D., JOURNAL OF NEAR-DEATH STUDIES 2010, Montreal, Canada
TL:DR: A Pakistani Muslim doctor's account of his two near death experiences.


Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/islam/comments ... ear_death/

Its no surprise that even Muslims have NDEs its a brain thing. Its like almost all people have dreams. Second point is that even when the NDEs are rare its because I think that Muslims do not pay too much attention to NDEs as Christians or other religions do that is maybe they are not so much reported and there can be much more of them.
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Flash » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:40 am

I dreamed that Peter Sagan won't finish the Tour de France and look what happened. At the final sprint of stage four (I think) he pushed Cavendish from the team Sky onto the metal barrier with his elbow. Presto...he got disqualified. :shock:

Cavendish is in the hospital and Slovakia is about to declare a war against...hmmm, France? Team Sky? or Britain. :mrgreen:
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:55 am

Shen1986 wrote:Its true what I read that Muslim NDE are rare but they still are some even met with Allah:

It's a little bit more complex, because of the Islamic ban on having any imagery (pictures) of Mohammad or Allah.

If people thinking they are having NDEs, are pulling images from their memory, then it would seem plausible that Muslims would have less images from memory to use and thus there may be less paranormal NDE Muslim-themed anecdotes.

In contrast, Hindus seem to have images of their pantheon of gods everywhere in their environment. Therefore I would guess (but I don't know) that Hindus probably have more paranormal NDEs featuring their gods.

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Dear Pyrrho

Can Shen1986 and I be granted $1,000,000 from the Skeptic Society's research fund, so we can travel the world and collect existing valuable data on this issue. ( We only fly business class and I need an extra seat for my very wise cat)

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Kamil » Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:Its true what I read that Muslim NDE are rare but they still are some even met with Allah:

It's a little bit more complex, because of the Islamic ban on having any imagery (pictures) of Mohammad or Allah.

If people thinking they are having NDEs, are pulling images from their memory, then it would seem plausible that Muslims would have less images from memory to use and thus there may be less paranormal NDE Muslim-themed anecdotes.

In contrast, Hindus seem to have images of their pantheon of gods everywhere in their environment. Therefore I would guess (but I don't know) that Hindus probably have more paranormal NDEs featuring their gods.

__________________________________________________________________________
Attempt No#592

Dear Pyrrho

Can Shen1986 and I be granted $1,000,000 from the Skeptic Society's research fund, so we can travel the world and collect existing valuable data on this issue. ( We only fly business class and I need an extra seat for my very wise cat)

Yours sincerely

Matthew Temple-Ellard.



Thatès an interesting point, although I have read that Muslims dream about seeing Muhammad, so I wonder why they cannot see him in NDEs. I also have only seen about 2-3 hindu experiences, and none saw krishna. I am just wondering why, even if it is a hallucination, it is interesting. If I could get a satisfying answer for that, I would be much less willing to believe NDEs.

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:57 am

Kamil wrote: Thatès an interesting point, although I have read that Muslims dream about seeing Muhammad, so I wonder why they cannot see him in NDEs. I also have only seen about 2-3 hindu experiences, and none saw krishna.
I informed you about NDEs and Muslims early on. You didn't do any research and claimed none existed, which was incorrect. Here is Lord Krishna in a vision.
Krishna in a vision..jpg


Kamil wrote:If I could get a satisfying answer for that, I would be much less willing to believe NDEs.
You're a Christian. You should believe in what ever you want. We don't care. However you need to stop posting on our science forum if you aren't going to do any research and keep making the same ridiculous claims, that are not true.
Krishna in a vision No2.jpg
Krishna in a vision No3.jpg
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Kamil » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:49 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote: Thatès an interesting point, although I have read that Muslims dream about seeing Muhammad, so I wonder why they cannot see him in NDEs. I also have only seen about 2-3 hindu experiences, and none saw krishna.
I informed you about NDEs and Muslims early on. You didn't do any research and claimed none existed, which was incorrect. Here is Lord Krishna in a vision.
Krishna in a vision..jpg

Kamil wrote:If I could get a satisfying answer for that, I would be much less willing to believe NDEs.
You're a Christian. You should believe in what ever you want. We don't care. However you need to stop posting on our science forum if you aren't going to do any research and keep making the same ridiculous claims, that are not true. Krishna in a vision No2.jpgKrishna in a vision No3.jpg


But that vision isn't an NDE it's just a drawing

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:18 am

Kamil wrote: But that vision isn't an NDE it's just a drawing
Well Kamil. I want you to go find actual video of someone's NDE dream and post it here.

Don't bother posting again until you find one.
:lol:

As a "god fearing Polish catholic" I suggest, in the future, you take this matter up with your priest. That's what he is there for. .... religious logic and religious questions.. :lol:

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:33 am

Kamil wrote:Thatès an interesting point, although I have read that Muslims dream about seeing Muhammad, so I wonder why they cannot see him in NDEs. I also have only seen about 2-3 hindu experiences, and none saw krishna. I am just wondering why, even if it is a hallucination, it is interesting. If I could get a satisfying answer for that, I would be much less willing to believe NDEs.

It basically comes down to this:
Are you willing to believe stories told by complete strangers when they have no proof that what they're telling you is anything more than a dream/hallucination caused by their bodies undergoing extreme stress?

There are two ways you could go about this:
1. Study the brain. Learn how it reacts to stress, and how it can trick you into believing you've had an experience that you have not had. I've posted several studies for you to read about numerous ways that NDEs might be caused. While you're learning, keep picking apart stories of NDEs. Find out what they have in common, and where they differ. Don't just pay attention to the experiences, but note the medical conditions too.
OR
2. Forget the science and go back to church. Be a believer.

We all have already done quite a lot of homework for you. It's time for you to do some of your own.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Shen1986 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:05 am

Flash wrote:I dreamed that Peter Sagan won't finish the Tour de France and look what happened. At the final sprint of stage four (I think) he pushed Cavendish from the team Sky onto the metal barrier with his elbow. Presto...he got disqualified. :shock:

Cavendish is in the hospital and Slovakia is about to declare a war against...hmmm, France? Team Sky? or Britain. :mrgreen:


:mrgreen:

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Shen1986 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:16 am

Kamil wrote:Thatès an interesting point, although I have read that Muslims dream about seeing Muhammad, so I wonder why they cannot see him in NDEs. I also have only seen about 2-3 hindu experiences, and none saw krishna. I am just wondering why, even if it is a hallucination, it is interesting. If I could get a satisfying answer for that, I would be much less willing to believe NDEs.


Not true. There are NDEs where people see Krishna in them during or after a NDE according to this.

Kothari who had a NDE later on claims he saw Krishna not in the NDE but as a after effect:

In Kothari’s case, the effect of the NDE unfolded only later. After being discharged from the hospital, he could not recognize anyone for six months. He remembered the past vaguely. Then began the onslaught of deities. Kothari claims to have seen various deities sitting face to face with him in his house: ‘I used to see huge forms of Krishna, Buddha, Mahavira. One day, to my surprise, I saw millions of Lord Krishnas on my body, almost in each cell. If I looked down on the floor I could see 100 miles under the ground.’

Kothari asked the deities to explain the purpose of what was happening to him. Then began the flow of advice from them in the form of verses where he was supposedly given the secret of creation. Till date, 41,000 verses have been dictated to him.


Taken from: https://www.lifepositive.com/light-at-t ... he-tunnel/

Also a person had Krishna in his NDE:

Many in the medical community consider NDE to be a manifestation of the subconscious mind or the effect of anesthesia. Says DR Ramesh Dang, head of the Balkrishna Hypnotherapy Centre, Mumbai: ‘NDE is nothing but a projection of the subconscious mind, particularly common among people with a religious attitude.’ Dang’s viewpoint does not explain Merra who was an atheist before her NDEs. She had never read any books on religion or meditation. ‘This is why seeing Lord Krishna during an NDE was such a surprise,’ she says.


Taken from: https://www.lifepositive.com/light-at-t ... he-tunnel/

So here you have it Kamil a NDE with Krishna.
Last edited by Shen1986 on Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:21 am

Well done Shen. You are still the best skeptic researcher on the forum! :D

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Shen1986 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:32 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:It basically comes down to this:
Are you willing to believe stories told by complete strangers when they have no proof that what they're telling you is anything more than a dream/hallucination caused by their bodies undergoing extreme stress?


What you wrote is true however I had people in my own family that had a NDE during extreme stress and when we talked about it they came to the conclusion that NDEs are also not special. My mother had a NDE once during a life threatening situation. She claimed she heard beautiful music and was in a very nice garden. After we talked about it i learned that 2 myths about NDE are not true at least what I saw in my mother and even in me:

1. NDE changes you - not true. She is not religious thanks to the NDE on the contrary she became even a atheist in her life time and is not very religious to this day. She believes there is something but religion is not the driving force of her life.

2. NDE memories are strong memories - not true again. The experience she had along with the NDE is not so strong and even during time it becomes weaker and weaker when I asked her about it later on the details were different. Not much but they were different a bit.

3. After talking about the NDE my mother told me that the feeling was similar to the feeling when you are cold or dying of cold like she read in a book which means that when your are dying of freezing in the last moments you get a feeling of warm inside and then you fall asleep and die. My mother claimed she felt the same and therefore concluded its the same feeling.

So I would be even skeptical if even a person I know would tell me that he had a NDE and it was paranormal because my friend who also was into the paranormal who like I tried all kinds of stuff and claimed he had a OBE and was certain that it was paranormal later on became also a atheist after logically examined the facts about his OBE.

I believe why people give too much credit to these NDEs and OBEs is that these experiences are quite extraordinary or that they happen when a person is in stress or in danger of life and therefore these memories and experiences are more powerful for the brain to deal with but to conclude them as a paranormal then we would need proof of it. Not just stories but real proof that is lacking even when many tried.
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Shen1986 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:43 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:It's a little bit more complex, because of the Islamic ban on having any imagery (pictures) of Mohammad or Allah.


True. I forget about this rule. I therefore must agree that is actually why Muslims have little picture like NDEs or do not report them at all because of this. Just imagine that Muslims would start telling that they seen Mohammed or Allah in their NDEs with a new massage of faith etc. in their community or strong believers. I think they would be punished for it by their priests or the community as whole.

That is why I think they are silent on this issue even when there are Muslim NDEs but they are under reported I think.
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Kamil » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:53 am

well, I was searching, and I found one NDE of a woman who said that although she didn't see Muhammad, she saw a throne with writing on it, praising Muhammad, so I guess that counts as something. I have also heard of other NDEs where a person sees Jesus, Krishna, Buddah, Muhammad all sitting side by side.

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:24 pm

Kamil wrote:well, I was searching, and I found one NDE of a woman who said that although she didn't see Muhammad, she saw a throne with writing on it, praising Muhammad, so I guess that counts as something. I have also heard of other NDEs where a person sees Jesus, Krishna, Buddah, Muhammad all sitting side by side.

You may also be running into a situation of bias. The NDE community (if you will) seems to be Christian-centric to a fault. It may be that NDEs involving other deities (or even pantheons) are just ignored by the community.

Where are the pagan NDEs? No reports of Earth Mothers or Sky Fathers? How about Cargo Cult NDEs? No NDE that talks about seeing John Frum or Prince Philip? Nothing from any of the multitudinous mythos of Native Americans? Why are you confining your search to only major religions? Or is that your bias?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Kamil » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:07 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Kamil wrote:well, I was searching, and I found one NDE of a woman who said that although she didn't see Muhammad, she saw a throne with writing on it, praising Muhammad, so I guess that counts as something. I have also heard of other NDEs where a person sees Jesus, Krishna, Buddah, Muhammad all sitting side by side.

You may also be running into a situation of bias. The NDE community (if you will) seems to be Christian-centric to a fault. It may be that NDEs involving other deities (or even pantheons) are just ignored by the community.

Where are the pagan NDEs? No reports of Earth Mothers or Sky Fathers? How about Cargo Cult NDEs? No NDE that talks about seeing John Frum or Prince Philip? Nothing from any of the multitudinous mythos of Native Americans? Why are you confining your search to only major religions? Or is that your bias?


Potentially. I do look for other religious NDEs and at most I can find about 5-6 hindu NDEs and maybe 5-10 Islamic ones but I can't find anyone where the person only saw their own specific deities and spoke with them. I wish there would be more research done in the middle east

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:47 pm

Kamil wrote:I wish there would be more research done in the middle east
Perhaps they're more practical and dismiss NDEs as hallucinatory side effects of immense physical and emotional stress. Or there's a cultural reason why people who experience them don't report them. Most Muslim societies are severely patriarchal. Admission of such things by men might be considered a sign of weakness, and by women as a sign of insanity. It's possible that they do experience them...and keep their mouths shut.

Keep in mind that, in the Western world, mental health has only recently been considered a valid medical issue. It wasn't long ago that people were institutionalized for problems like postpartum depression and autism. Science is always moving forward and making new discoveries, but it is, to a large extent, dependent on the culture in which it works. Look at the religious hysteria surrounding stem cell research, or any number of other examples.

So it's possible that NDEs are simply not discussed in the Middle East for cultural reasons.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Kamil » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:10 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Kamil wrote:I wish there would be more research done in the middle east
Perhaps they're more practical and dismiss NDEs as hallucinatory side effects of immense physical and emotional stress. Or there's a cultural reason why people who experience them don't report them. Most Muslim societies are severely patriarchal. Admission of such things by men might be considered a sign of weakness, and by women as a sign of insanity. It's possible that they do experience them...and keep their mouths shut.

Keep in mind that, in the Western world, mental health has only recently been considered a valid medical issue. It wasn't long ago that people were institutionalized for problems like postpartum depression and autism. Science is always moving forward and making new discoveries, but it is, to a large extent, dependent on the culture in which it works. Look at the religious hysteria surrounding stem cell research, or any number of other examples.

So it's possible that NDEs are simply not discussed in the Middle East for cultural reasons.


I've heard that from some NDE researchers. I'm just wondering, hypothetically, if you found out that 75 percent of Christians saw Jesus during their NDEs but no Muslim ever saw Muhammad in one, and not one Buddhist saw Buddha, would you then think it proves Jesus or no?

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:22 pm

No, because NDEs are still subjective experiences, not proof.

Nearly 25% of the population has experienced hypnagogic hallucinations. Does that mean people are being visited in their bedrooms at night by shadow people, demons, aliens, and other creatures, and only 25% of the population happens to see them? No, of course not.

From 12-53% of people with Alzheimer's experience hallucinations. Does that mean that what they're seeing is real, and the rest of us simply can't perceive what they experience because we don't have Alzheimer's? No, of course not.

Younger people recall their dreams 90% of the time. Does that mean their dreams are real? No, of course not.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Kamil » Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:22 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:No, because NDEs are still subjective experiences, not proof.

Nearly 25% of the population has experienced hypnagogic hallucinations. Does that mean people are being visited in their bedrooms at night by shadow people, demons, aliens, and other creatures, and only 25% of the population happens to see them? No, of course not.

From 12-53% of people with Alzheimer's experience hallucinations. Does that mean that what they're seeing is real, and the rest of us simply can't perceive what they experience because we don't have Alzheimer's? No, of course not.

Younger people recall their dreams 90% of the time. Does that mean their dreams are real? No, of course not.


That is a good answer, let me ask you, are you an atheist?

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Re: Anita Moorjani Paranormal NDE

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:27 am

Kamil wrote: I've heard that from some NDE researchers. I'm just wondering, hypothetically, if you found out that 75 percent of Christians saw Jesus during their NDEs but no Muslim ever saw Muhammad in one, and not one Buddhist saw Buddha, would you then think it proves Jesus or no?


I'm starting to think you are just trolling. You first came here and claimed Jesus was real because no one saw gods, from other religions, in their paranormal NDEs. You also claimed that was evidence a "soul existed".

In reality, other gods from other religions, movie monsters, lost pet puppies, dead relatives and cartoon characters are claimed to have appeared in paranormal NDEs and you ignore all of this information on purpose.

Go back to your Church. You are a Christian. Stick to your own peers and stop posting on a science based forum.


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