Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

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Matthew Ellard
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Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:34 pm

This is an invented publishing "conspiracy" for commercial gain. There are two culprits.

The first culprit was a contributor to Jane's Defence Weekly prior to 2001 and an author of non-fiction and fiction books. His name is Nicholas Cook. He authored a book called The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity Technology / Random House Publishing (2001). This book is written in the first person and mixes together half truths concerning real German technological activities and a little bit of invention. The secret German time machine is Die Glocke (The Bell). For skeptics the warning bells are obvious. On the USA Nation Public Radio program "Fresh Air" Nicholas Cook stated "I am not a scientist, but I enlisted some help.". That scientific help was from "Dr.Hal Puthoff (who) is pioneering this whole zero point energy field" and Skeptics may remember Dr Hal Pthoff as the man who endorsed Uri Gellar!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Cook
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff

The second culprit is another author, a Pole, called Igor Witkowski, through his slightly earlier Polish book The Truth About The Wunderwaffe (2000), It is a complete fabrication as clearly debunked on Wikipedia. "Witkowski claims to have discovered the existence of the alleged German secret project Die Glocke from transcripts of an interrogation by Polish authorities of former Nazi officer Jakob Sporrenberg. Witkowski claims to have been able to read the transcripts through the help of an unnamed Polish Intelligence officer. No primary documentation, aside from Witkowski's account, exists for the weapon. Jakob Sporrenberg served in the nazi occupation regimes in Poland and Norway. He never served in a scientific or technical capacity with the SS."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Witkowski
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Sporrenberg

(I thank the North Texas Skeptics for their 2001 debunking of this story which I have summarized)
http://www.ntskeptics.org/

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:48 pm

And, of course, the History Channel has cashed in, running at least a segment on this fantasy. (Rerun in Ancient Aliens, I think, with a spin from the guy with the insane hair.)
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:21 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:And, of course, the History Channel has cashed in, running at least a segment on this fantasy. (Rerun in Ancient Aliens, I think, with a spin from the guy with the insane hair.)


Well....Mr Big Lizard, you are spot on the money!

In October 2005, the UK’s Channel 4 screened a two-hour documentary, written and presented by Nick Cook called ‘UFOs: The Secret Evidence’ (also shown on the History Channel as ‘An Alien History of Planet Earth).
http://www.highfrontiers.com/media.htm

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby RICH-ENGLAND » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:33 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:And, of course, the History Channel has cashed in, running at least a segment on this fantasy. (Rerun in Ancient Aliens, I think, with a spin from the guy with the insane hair.)


Well....Mr Big Lizard, you are spot on the money!

In October 2005, the UK’s Channel 4 screened a two-hour documentary, written and presented by Nick Cook called ‘UFOs: The Secret Evidence’ (also shown on the History Channel as ‘An Alien History of Planet Earth).
http://www.highfrontiers.com/media.htm


yes, ive seen it, it was shown on channel 4s ufo night back in 05, there was actually two documentaries that accompany nick cooks book, the other one is called "the billion dollar secret", but is more about stealth and planes as opposed to ufos, but were both made while researching/writing his book or at least as a result of.

its here for anyone that may want to watch.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6136405829

thanks

rich

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Gord » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:38 am

Gawdzilla wrote:And, of course, the History Channel has cashed in, running at least a segment on this fantasy. (Rerun in Ancient Aliens, I think, with a spin from the guy with the insane hair.)

Giorgio!! 8-)

To paraphrase his essential message: "I'm not saying it's ancient aliens...but it's ancient aliens."
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby tecpaocelotl » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:54 am

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:And, of course, the History Channel has cashed in, running at least a segment on this fantasy. (Rerun in Ancient Aliens, I think, with a spin from the guy with the insane hair.)

Giorgio!! 8-)

To paraphrase his essential message: "I'm not saying it's ancient aliens...but it's ancient aliens."


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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Gord » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:22 am

Dat's da guy!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby busterggi » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:34 pm

I'd have sworn I read something along those lines back in the mid-'90's. Unfortunately almost all of my books are packed away due to moving recently & I've no idea which box its in.

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby GrahD » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:33 pm

busterggi wrote:I'd have sworn I read something along those lines back in the mid-'90's. Unfortunately almost all of my books are packed away due to moving recently & I've no idea which box its in.


You're probably thinking of 'Lightning' by Dean Koontz.

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby busterggi » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:52 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:This is an invented publishing "conspiracy" for commercial gain. There are two culprits.

The first culprit was a contributor to Jane's Defence Weekly prior to 2001 and an author of non-fiction and fiction books. His name is Nicholas Cook. He authored a book called The Hunt for Zero Point: Inside the Classified World of Antigravity Technology / Random House Publishing (2001). This book is written in the first person and mixes together half truths concerning real German technological activities and a little bit of invention. The secret German time machine is Die Glocke (The Bell). For skeptics the warning bells are obvious. On the USA Nation Public Radio program "Fresh Air" Nicholas Cook stated "I am not a scientist, but I enlisted some help.". That scientific help was from "Dr.Hal Puthoff (who) is pioneering this whole zero point energy field" and Skeptics may remember Dr Hal Pthoff as the man who endorsed Uri Gellar!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Cook
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff

The second culprit is another author, a Pole, called Igor Witkowski, through his slightly earlier Polish book The Truth About The Wunderwaffe (2000), It is a complete fabrication as clearly debunked on Wikipedia. "Witkowski claims to have discovered the existence of the alleged German secret project Die Glocke from transcripts of an interrogation by Polish authorities of former Nazi officer Jakob Sporrenberg. Witkowski claims to have been able to read the transcripts through the help of an unnamed Polish Intelligence officer. No primary documentation, aside from Witkowski's account, exists for the weapon. Jakob Sporrenberg served in the nazi occupation regimes in Poland and Norway. He never served in a scientific or technical capacity with the SS."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Witkowski
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakob_Sporrenberg

(I thank the North Texas Skeptics for their 2001 debunking of this story which I have summarized)
http://www.ntskeptics.org/


Oh are you going to be embarrassed when Hitler & the machine pop back on Fox News soon!

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Bart Stewart » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:28 pm

I suspect this Nazi time machine story will have a long life in Conspiracy Theory Land. I recall seeing mentions of it in UFO magazines, and I think there's a video on Youtube about a Nazi base on the Moon.

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby bigtim » Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:24 pm

I had the Anti-Gravity handbook back in the mid-late 80s. It was a fun read. It had the BELL in it as I recall.

I tried replicating the models and equipment in and then came to the conclusion that the guys who did it ware morons and had no clue how physics worked. To be honest, in the 80s, I didn't either but in my effort to build what what they described I had to go get REAL books and study, and thus the foray into EE in college.
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Kilgore Trout » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:01 pm

Is it really necessary to debunk a time machine? I don't see how a time machine would be useful or practical. Do you just suddenly pop into existence in the year 2525? How does that work? You better be very careful where you pop up.
I'll turn the chair I'm sitting in into a time machine and set it to 2525 and hit the button. I'll bet my ray gun that the location of my chair right now will be in space in 2525. Or even if you found a way to appear at whatever location you want, what happens when your body pops up superimposed on all the air molecules in that space? I bet you would turn into a big mushy mess.
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Monster » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:26 pm

Somebody once said that a time machine MUST make the travelers travel in space too. The sun is moving in the galaxy, and Earth is going around the sun. If you ignore those motions, you still have the rotation of the Earth to take into account. So, if you traveled forward in time just 1 minute, due to the rotation of the Earth, you'd end up far away from your starting point if you didn't travel in space.
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:51 pm

You'd need two machines, one that sends and one that receives you. So you build one here and now, and others as you grow older. And in 25 years you can go back to here and now and fix what you then know was a mistake or bring other useful knowledge and technology with you.
Harebrained? Yes. But kinda fun to think about what I would have done differently several years ago. Hehe.
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Kilgore Trout » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:00 pm

But you would've already gone back in time to fix the problems before you even made the decision to do so. In other words, if it worked (fixing the past mistake) the problem would already have been solved because you already did it. Clear?
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:36 pm

Clear. And I'd also think since one cannot know the outcome of anything for sure, almost every "fixing" would bring it's own (and maybe even bigger) problems with it.
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Kilgore Trout » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:07 pm

You would know the outcome since you've already fxed it. That's my point.
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby bigtim » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:31 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:But you would've already gone back in time to fix the problems before you even made the decision to do so. In other words, if it worked (fixing the past mistake) the problem would already have been solved because you already did it. Clear?


I toyed with a story idea.. this guy works is in 2150 and works on a high physics R&D team. His family was in the Holocaust and only his grandmother survived. He’s grown up with the stories, they’ve been family stories for generations. That’s eaten him alive. So he’s on this team with a time machine. He gets the chance and decides to take it. He goes back in time. The machine mimics the look of a shed. He then takes the opportunity to go and kill Hitler. When he returns to the machine it’s not there. After some thought and internal dialogue he realizes that he made it so he didn’t exist. Which means his machine never existed and he never went back in time. But he did, and did, and is now a paradox. So he figures he’ll make a new one and starts that project. But he needs material that doesn’t exist yet. So he started the greatest technical growth spurt humanity had ever seen. And Germany ends up ruling the planet…. or trying to… while much of Europe was controlled the rest of the world was broiled in a fight to fend off the Imperial Germany. No one wanted to be a vassal state….
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:37 pm

Kilgore Trout wrote:But you would've already gone back in time to fix the problems before you even made the decision to do so. In other words, if it worked (fixing the past mistake) the problem would already have been solved because you already did it. Clear?


Yes. But again later. I guess what I'm trying to say is, there are simply too many unknowns and possible outcomes. What if the outcome of a first attempt was less desirable? One might be "jumping" both ways endlessly to correct again? Unless one gets killed "in the past" because of changes made...

Or maybe I'm too dense. :)
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:47 pm

Or maybe I simply can't believe that there could be a human that would have "no problems" because they already fixed them... :lol:
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Kilgore Trout » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:24 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Or maybe I simply can't believe that there could be a human that would have "no problems" because they already fixed them... :lol:



Good point!

What I've been struggling to say is that I don't think you could never change the past because it already happened. Even if you traveled back to an earlier time and tried to effect change, things would turn out the same in the time you originally started from. You were living with the results of your attempt all along even though you didn't know it.
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:59 am

Kilgore Trout wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Or maybe I simply can't believe that there could be a human that would have "no problems" because they already fixed them... :lol:



Good point!

What I've been struggling to say is that I don't think you could never change the past because it already happened. Even if you traveled back to an earlier time and tried to effect change, things would turn out the same in the time you originally started from. You were living with the results of your attempt all along even though you didn't know it.


Yes, I was thinking in those lines too, but with an addition to it. And please correct me if I'm wrong. Even if it worked, the new scenario would unfold and reflect on the later you. But, that later you has not forgotten the past leading up to the point of fixing the perceived problem.

And also: because one is aware of going "a time traveling", would one not keep a record?

So one could be "unaware' but still know of it?
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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Strangely_brown » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:52 am

Well I believe nick cook.
Of course they turned the thing on when they saw the allies coming and escaped in it. Doh!!! Doesn't take a lot of working out.
Last edited by Strangely_brown on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:18 am

Strangely_brown wrote:Well I believe nick cook.
This is going to be interesting.....
Strangely_brown wrote:Of course they turned thing on when they saw the allies coming and escaped in it. Doh!!! Doesn't take a lot of working out.
Would you like to set out your "hypothesis" as to what happened in detail? I always like a good laugh. :D

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Strangely_brown » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:04 am

You'll have to allow me time to invent a suitable reply. I'll also have to go back through all the back issues of the Daily Sport to see if they've covered the story and have the answer. ;)

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Re: Debunking "Secret Nazi time machine"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:09 am

Strangely_brown wrote:You'll have to allow me time to invent a suitable reply.
I'm just being careful. The Skeptic Society forum does a lot of anti-holocaust denial work. Nazi UFOs are a 60's invention by a holocaust denier called Ernst Zündel who published under the name Christof Friedrich. We get holocaust deniers joining this forum pretending to be UFO fans. :D

How A Holocaust Denier Fooled The Internet With Nazi Jetpack Soldiers
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/05/how-a ... -soldiers/

Ernst Zündel's UFO Research / Promotion of holocaust denial
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/z/zun ... s-new.html


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