Spontanious human combustion

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Spontanious human combustion

Post by surrounded » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:03 am

.....myth, or what , haven't heard of it happening in "modern times" a Victorian era phenomenon?

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Post by DaSani » Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:25 am

There has been anecdotal accounts post-Victorian times (the Reeser case for instance) but nothing in the way of hard evidence that people burst into flames for no apparent reason.

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Post by bigtim » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:08 pm

Actually it's been pretty much fully debunked. All it took was a study of how fire worked and some experimentation. If I get time I'll try to dig up data to show.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Kevin Levites » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:46 pm

I saw a special on T.V. about this, and they were able to duplicate it with a dead pig (no, I'm not kidding).

If someone is wrapped up in a blanket and has a heart attack while smoking a cigarette, a small fire in the blanket will cause the fat to liquefy and leach into the blanket, where it acts like a wick in a kerosene lamp.

The heat causes more fat to leach out, which sustains the small fire, and the body is gradually cremated piecemeal over a period of seven or eight hours . . . all without destroying the room that the body is in.

The show was pretty interesting. The pig was lying in bed in a re-created room, and videotaped over the course of a day.

This doesn't mean that there is no such thing as spontaneous human combustion, but there is no evidence of it.

Best,
---Kevin

P.S. There was an article in Skeptical Inquirer about a woman named Phyllis who went up in flames in a dance hall called "Requiem (sp?) for Phyllis" about "spontaneous human confabulation" or some such. It traced how an unfortunate accident with a sweet young woman was blown up into a magical event with unearthly flames that was written up in Fate as a paranormal event.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by St. Jimmy » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:01 pm

The pig thing is probably not what people uysually have in mind. Of course humans are flammable, sepecially if they're wearing flammable clothing and don't think to get outof them when they catch fire (which can be quite wuick). Of course, nothing ever happens "spontaneously" in the sense that it doesn't have a cause. That's not how nature works.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:24 am

http://www.csicop.org/si/9611/shc.html

Experiments show that liquefied human fat burns at a temperature of about two hundred and fifty° Celsius; however, a cloth wick placed in such fat will burn even when the temperature falls as low as twenty-four° Celsius (Dee 1965). In an 1854 English case, a woman's body had been partially destroyed in the span of two hours; it was explained that "beneath the body there was a hempen mat, so combustible, owing to the melted human fat with which it was impregnated, that when ignited it burnt like a link [i.e., a pitch torch]" (Stevenson 1883, 718-27).
Even a lean body contains a significant amount of fat, which is present even in the bone marrow (Snyder 1967, 233, 242). Indeed, "once the body starts to burn, there is enough fat and inflammable substances to permit varying amounts of destruction to take place. Sometimes this destruction by burning will proceed to a degree which results in almost complete combustion of the body," as police officials reported in the Mary Reeser case (Blizin 1951). Moreover, in general, "women burn hotter and quicker than men, because proportionally, women carry more fat" (Bennett n.d.).

Arnold tries to compare favorably the partial destruction of bodies that occurs in his SHC cases (in which limbs, large segments of bone, and other matter may remain, although that which does is rarely quantified or described scientifically) with the more complete destruction typical of crematories. But this is an apples-versus-oranges comparison at best. As Drysdale (1989) explains:
In a crematorium you need high temperatures-around 1,300° C, or even higher-to reduce the body to ash in a relatively short period of time. But it's a misconception to think you need those temperatures within a living room to reduce a body to ash in this way. You can produce local, high temperatures, by means of the wick effect and a combination of smouldering and flaming to reduce even bones to ash. At relatively low temperatures of 500 ° C-and if given enough time-the bone will transform into something approaching a powder in composition.



Also

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/158853.stm

Dr John de Haan of the California Criminalistic Institute used a dead pig in a gruesome experiment to show that small flames can consume a human being with the help of burning body fat.

A pig was used because it closely resembles a human's fat content.

The pig was wrapped in a blanket and a small amount of petrol was poured on it.

After five hours of continuous burning the bones were being destroyed.


Paper online:

http://www.forensic-science-society.org.uk/DeHaan.pdf
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Nobilis » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:28 am

Gives a whole new meaning to "burning the fat off".
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:05 am

Kevin Levites wrote:I saw a special on T.V. about this, and they were able to duplicate it with a dead pig (no, I'm not kidding).

If someone is wrapped up in a blanket and has a heart attack while smoking a cigarette, a small fire in the blanket will cause the fat to liquefy and leach into the blanket, where it acts like a wick in a kerosene lamp.

The heat causes more fat to leach out, which sustains the small fire, and the body is gradually cremated piecemeal over a period of seven or eight hours . . . all without destroying the room that the body is in.

The show was pretty interesting. The pig was lying in bed in a re-created room, and videotaped over the course of a day.

This doesn't mean that there is no such thing as spontaneous human combustion, but there is no evidence of it.

Best,
---Kevin

P.S. There was an article in Skeptical Inquirer about a woman named Phyllis who went up in flames in a dance hall called "Requiem (sp?) for Phyllis" about "spontaneous human confabulation" or some such. It traced how an unfortunate accident with a sweet young woman was blown up into a magical event with unearthly flames that was written up in Fate as a paranormal event.



kind of wondering - 9 years ? this was your last post till dec 8th 16

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:13 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:kind of wondering - 9 years ? this was your last post till dec 8th 16

What an odd question. I like it!
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by TJrandom » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:30 pm

;) A slow burn...

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Austin Harper » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:38 pm

I was confused by pias's post because Kevin Levites has deleted his post but when I checked his profile I saw that he was, in fact, active on Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:39 am. What did he say?
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:54 pm

:hmm: Now I'm getting confused. A search of the user's posts shows eight new ones in various topics since his reappearance on Dec 8. Dunno what was deleted...


...but then again, I thought reawakening this topic revolved around this past year and recent national news anyway. :-P
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:39 pm

If we all can burn, that must mean we are all witches.

Hey, Education System:! Where's my fireball spell!!! :shakefist:
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:49 pm

Spoiler:
. :mm:












. :beach:
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:15 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Hey, Education System:! Where's my fireball spell!!! :shakefist:

Image
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:51 am

Austin Harper wrote:I was confused by pias's post because Kevin Levites has deleted his post but when I checked his profile I saw that he was, in fact, active on Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:39 am. What did he say?



if you search his posts you will see he joined 11-1-2006
this post - spontanious (spell chek) human combustion is dated Friday 12-7-2007 8:46 am

his next post is dated 12-8-2016

just wondering where he has bean

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gord » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:47 pm

He's bean up the stalk.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:59 pm

Human fat is flammable. The wick effect can ignite it. Or else any high enough temperature.

To Get "spontaneous" combustion, you need two things.
1. The person who is fuel must be deeply unconscious or dead.
2. Sufficient heat must be applied.

Such cases should be taken as a strong indicator that a murder has been done. The victim was killed, and then something burning put on top of his/her body. When the flames get through the skin to the fat layer, the fat burns, and the whole body is consumed.

It would be rare for this to happen accidentally.

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by ewyllysrhydd » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:14 pm

And how about the resultant heat?

Why doesn't all that heat leave any immensely destructive effect on the surroundings?

Why don't we get the same limited effect by burning similar fat or combustible material on the same kind of surroundings?

Apparently, spontaneous human combustion is some kind of nano or atomic scale burning, that occurs only from within.

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:26 pm

A flare doesn't put a lot of heat into the surroundings. Like waving your hand through a candle flame.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by ewyllysrhydd » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:44 pm

If it is so, why do people die of spontaneous combustion then?

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:55 pm

Let's find an example of it actually happening before we waste time trying to explain how it might be possible.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by ewyllysrhydd » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:21 pm

Well then houston, take this;

From external links of en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spontaneous_human_combustion&oldid=817148031

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/yasli-kadini ... efault.htm

http://www.focafoca.com/default.asp?say ... 8&id=10599

The last photo in the 2nd link demonstrates that limited burning effect on the surroundings exactly.

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by TJrandom » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:36 pm

ewyllysrhydd wrote:Well then houston, take this;

From external links of en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Spontaneous_human_combustion&oldid=817148031

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/yasli-kadini ... efault.htm

http://www.focafoca.com/default.asp?say ... 8&id=10599

The last photo in the 2nd link demonstrates that limited burning effect on the surroundings exactly.
From the first link then google translated… suggesting a natural cause
… It was stated that the fire could have come out while the unfortunate woman was trying to fix the nylon-based tip of the rope …
And from the second link…
…He wanted to burn the end of the rope (nylon blended) with the lighter as usual to fix it.
So the lesson is to never burn the end of a nylon rope when alone, seated and unable to get up without assistance. Nothing spontaneous here.

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:39 pm

ewyllysrhydd wrote:If it is so, why do people die of spontaneous combustion then?
The flame is still hot. The furniture, carpet, etc., do not get much of that heat for very long, so there's minimal damage outside the body. (Wooistas will say NO damage, but they'd lie about being alive.)
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:40 pm

Austin Harper wrote:Let's find an example of it actually happening before we waste time trying to explain how it might be possible.
I've seen impressive studies of SHC, not enough to make me a true believer, but enough to make me thinking "maybe".
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:21 pm

For a person to burn, they must be incapacitated. This can happen if someone is trapped in a burning building, or has a heart attack, or something else making them unconscious. But the easiest explanation for "spontaneous" combustion is that someone else attacked them and then set fire to them.

A person who is set fire to while still able to act is likely to take it personally.

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gord » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:04 am

My brother once passed out in bed with a lit cigarette. The mattress caught fire and slowly burned, but it never erupted into a full flame. Instead, it burnt an outline of my brother without even badly burning him. He said his minor injuries felt like a slight sunburn, and they healed in a couple of days.

This is a first-hand account: I helped haul the smouldering mattress into the backyard and then sprayed water on it for half an hour with the hose. The outline of my brother's body was like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:06 pm

Gord wrote:My brother once passed out in bed with a lit cigarette. The mattress caught fire and slowly burned, but it never erupted into a full flame. Instead, it burnt an outline of my brother without even badly burning him. He said his minor injuries felt like a slight sunburn, and they healed in a couple of days.

This is a first-hand account: I helped haul the smouldering mattress into the backyard and then sprayed water on it for half an hour with the hose. The outline of my brother's body was like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
A woman smells smoke and checks her son's room. The bed is on fire. The son is in the bed, passed out drunk. She rouses him and starts shouting.

"Were you smoking in bed again?"

"No, no, no, it was on fire when I lay down."
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by TJrandom » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:42 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:My brother once passed out in bed with a lit cigarette. The mattress caught fire and slowly burned, but it never erupted into a full flame. Instead, it burnt an outline of my brother without even badly burning him. He said his minor injuries felt like a slight sunburn, and they healed in a couple of days.

This is a first-hand account: I helped haul the smouldering mattress into the backyard and then sprayed water on it for half an hour with the hose. The outline of my brother's body was like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
A woman smells smoke and checks her son's room. The bed is on fire. The son is in the bed, passed out drunk. She rouses him and starts shouting.

"Were you smoking in bed again?"

"No, no, no, it was on fire when I lay down."
Shucks, I smell a rat. Methinks brother peed his bed, more`n once mind you - and wanting a new mattress, soaked his body imprint with water, or maybe even created said outline in boy sport piss. Then burned the rest. And to top it off, got `ol Gordie to help carry the smoke`n mess out.

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:59 am

No oxygen, no burn. You can't set a piece of paper money on fire with a whole cigar, if it is pressed tightly on skin.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Poodle » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:14 am

scrmbldggs wrote:... You can't set a piece of paper money on fire with a whole cigar, if it is pressed tightly on skin.
Confucious?

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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:18 am

Poodle wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:... You can't set a piece of paper money on fire with a whole cigar, if it is pressed tightly on skin.
Confucious?
Sun Tzu.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:31 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Poodle wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:... You can't set a piece of paper money on fire with a whole cigar, if it is pressed tightly on skin.
Confucious?
Sun Tzu.
Gonsun Long.
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:37 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Poodle wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:... You can't set a piece of paper money on fire with a whole cigar, if it is pressed tightly on skin.
Confucious?
Sun Tzu.
Gonsun Long.
Wun Hung Low
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gord » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:00 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Poodle wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:... You can't set a piece of paper money on fire with a whole cigar, if it is pressed tightly on skin.
Confucious?
Sun Tzu.
Gonsun Long.
Wun Hung Low
Gus Un Teit
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:16 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:... You can't set a piece of paper money on fire with a whole cigar, if it is pressed tightly on skin.
Poodle wrote:Confucious?
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Sun Tzu.
scrmbldggs wrote:Gonsun Long.
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Wun Hung Low
Gord wrote:Gus Un Teit
Wen Blo Lo
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:22 pm

Sum Ting Wong


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Re: Spontanious human combustion

Post by Gord » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:13 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Sum Ting Wong


Poor Captain Sum Ting Wong. Nobody's ever going to trust him again after that.

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