Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

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Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Kamil » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:03 pm

I get mixed feelings about the Howard Storm story (the man who used to be an atheist but is now a reverend). Some of it seems like a hallucination, and some seems like it is too detailed. I think he is being genuine as he became a reverend after, so maybe he added things to it?

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/ ... storm.html

I think the beginning of his story seems like a hallucination:

1) he is supposedly dead, and in spirit forum, yet he has nerves and can feel the cold floor or his hands making fists.

2) his experience takes place in the hospital room and the rest is in the hallway of the hospital. It is just a long dark road. He probably didn't pay attention to how the hospital looked, so his brain had to fill in the gaps of the way it looked.

3) the demons mock his hospital gown. Why would his "soul" be wearing his hospital clothes?

4) These shadow looking demons are attacking him. Anyone could interpret this as anything. However, Storm assumes he is in hell, therefore he thinks of Jesus, and this makes his experience automatically religious.

The only things I don't get are:

1) How could his experience be so detailed?
2) he talks about having infinite knowledge, and says everyone's NDE is different to suit them and their beliefs.
3) He asks detailed questions about the USA economy and future wars and gets answers
4) he sees 80 new primary colours

I think he seems genuine. I don't think he lied about his whole experience. He did become a church reverend. It's just that his account was so detailed. Is it possible he really believes he had the experience, but that he added stuff to it later to make his story more convincing?

Also, what do you think are the odds his story was real?

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:12 pm

Kamil wrote:1) How could his experience be so detailed?
He made it up. :lol:

Kamil wrote:4) he sees 80 new primary colours
What a load of crap. You only have three colour receptors in your head. Red, Green and Blue. Humans already see the entire range of visible light and therefore you now know Howard Storm is lying. :lol:

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Kamil » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:16 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:1) How could his experience be so detailed?
He made it up. :lol:

Kamil wrote:4) he sees 80 new primary colours
What a load of crap. You only have three colour receptors in your head. Red, Green and Blue. Humans already see the entire range of visible light and therefore you now know Howard Storm is lying. :lol:



do you think he lied about his whole experience, or do you think he simply lied/embellished parts of it? He seemed so genuine.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby gorgeous » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:22 pm

people who have nde's report much of the same stuff....new levels of color and music they never knew existed,all knowledge available to them, given info about the history of the Earth and the future probable events....some are harassed by demons----just hostile beings with no physical body----, just as hostile beings abuse those in bodies on Earth...yes, people out of body often wear clothes..maybe just to make us more comfortable...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:25 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:1) How could his experience be so detailed?
He made it up. :lol:

Kamil wrote:4) he sees 80 new primary colours
What a load of crap. You only have three colour receptors in your head. Red, Green and Blue. Humans already see the entire range of visible light and therefore you now know Howard Storm is lying. :lol:


Green is a combo of yellow and blue. /quibble
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:31 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote: Green is a combo of yellow and blue. /quibble
Isn't that mixing paint not light?
colour TV.jpg

Colour TV
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:33 pm

gorgeous wrote:people who have nde's report much of the same stuff....new levels of color and music they never knew existed.
......that's because they don't exist and the idiots made the story up.

We know all the colours because of their electromagnetic frequency.
:lol:

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby gorgeous » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:40 pm

wrong
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:49 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote: Green is a combo of yellow and blue. /quibble
Isn't that mixing paint not light?
colour TV.jpg
Colour TV

yeah, sorry

cone color responses

Looking it up, it's not that simple - the middle curve covers both green and yellow, with quite a bit of overlap toward the red.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:50 pm

gorgeous wrote:wrong


Go play with the widdow froggies for a while, gorgeous. Adults are having a conversation.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby gorgeous » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:09 pm

you will learn
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:16 pm

Just a dither: reading up on digital camera tech....the pixels that capture the different wave lengths typically have more blue receptors than green and red because.......I forget why. Also noted that the shape of the pixel makes a difference...square, circle, polygon. Everything in tech is a tradeoff for desired results, cost of manufacturing, etc.

Optics. Fascinating area. I can see gene modification could easily give hoomans an infrared receptor? I can see doing that. Maybe not the magnetic thing.
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:49 pm

Kamil wrote: do you think he lied about his whole experience.
Yes.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:53 pm

gorgeous wrote: We know all the colours because of their electromagnetic frequency
gorgeous wrote:wrong
Gorgeous, you complete idiot. The definition of a colour is its electromagnetic wave frequency.
spectrum.jpeg
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Kamil » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:54 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote: do you think he lied about his whole experience.
Yes.


the only thing is he cried a lot during his testimony, and he was an art professor before. He had his experience while he took his class to Europe. After that, he became a church reverend. That is such a lifestyle change

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:11 am

Gee Whiz.........people honestly believe all sorts of nutty stuff based on their personal experiences.

its only confirmation that counts.
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:11 am

Kamil wrote:.....the only thing is he cried a lot during his testimony,
....of course he did. He wanted to sell his book for commercial profit. He'd say anything.
Howard Storm.jpg

Published by Doubleday Books for profit.
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:.....the only thing is he cried a lot during his testimony,
....of course he did. He wanted to sell his book for commercial profit. He'd say anything.
Howard Storm.jpg
Published by Doubleday Books for profit.

Forward by Anne Rice? Ha, ha..........I tried to read her Vampire book.......got as far as "The smell was indescribable...." exactly what an author is supposed to do. Pure tripe. Set up a lot of dissonance for me. Would I even want to be a "successful novelist" if it was tripe like that? I thought/concluded no.......but haven't even reached her level.

Life is like that.
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Gord » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:33 am

Kamil wrote:Some of it seems like a hallucination, and some seems like it is too detailed.

Some hallucinations can be extremely detailed.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:56 am

Gord wrote:
Kamil wrote:Some of it seems like a hallucination, and some seems like it is too detailed.

Some hallucinations can be extremely detailed.

...and spawn words like "Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta". :-P
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:32 am

Kamil AKA Anthony AKA Omniverse AKA MatMS7 wrote:my claim is that there are reports of NDEs (many) where people claim they saw Jesus. I am yet to find any of people mentioning Muhammad, or Vishnu, or other deities. Therefore, I believe Jesus is more real than other deities.


cough cough.....

Here we go again. Matt MSV7 is trolling again.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Kamil » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 am

Sean Robert wrote:
Kamil AKA Anthony AKA Omniverse AKA MatMS7 wrote:my claim is that there are reports of NDEs (many) where people claim they saw Jesus. I am yet to find any of people mentioning Muhammad, or Vishnu, or other deities. Therefore, I believe Jesus is more real than other deities.


cough cough.....

Here we go again. Matt MSV7 is trolling again.


Lmao Sean, where did you get anthony from?

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:51 pm

Kamil wrote:1) How could his experience be so detailed?
During one of my migraines, I saw a group of miniature people about 6" tall, all dressed head to toe in purple. Since they were all looking at me, I was able to recount the experience in great detail. Does this mean a race of 6" tall beings who like purple live in the alleys behind the brownstones on Beacon Street in Boston? (Even in the throes of my migraine, I discounted the experience as a hallucination. After all, it's Boston; if they were real, they'd be wearing green. :mrgreen: )
Kamil wrote:2) he talks about having infinite knowledge, and says everyone's NDE is different to suit them and their beliefs.
Obviously everyone has a different hallucinatory experience. That should be your first clue that it's BS.
Kamil wrote:3) He asks detailed questions about the USA economy and future wars and gets answers
People who make predictions either turn out to be utterly wrong...or just lucky because they've formulated their prediction based on knowledge they already possess.
Kamil wrote:4) he sees 80 new primary colours
There are only three primary colors: red, yellow, and blue.
Kamil wrote:Also, what do you think are the odds his story was real?
Zero to none.
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby gorgeous » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:55 pm

the non-physical level has a great amount of unknown colors and music....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:59 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote: Green is a combo of yellow and blue. /quibble
Isn't that mixing paint not light?
Yes. Color mixing for tangible media (pigments in paint, pastel, crayon, whatever) is based on red, yellow, and blue. Color mixing in photography and graphic design is based on either red, green, blue (RCB) or cyan, magenta, yellow, black (CMYK). Generally, you design in RGB mode for the web, and in CMYK mode for print media.

Also, color tones are different. With light, white is the combination of all colors.
Image
With pigment, black is the combination of all colors.
Image
This is because when we view light, that's all we're viewing. But when we view pigment, we're viewing it in combination with light and what we perceive is the light reflected from the pigment.
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:02 pm

gorgeous wrote:the non-physical level has a great amount of unknown colors and music....
You're so silly. You can't bloody see or hear anything without a physical body.
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby gorgeous » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:15 pm

wrong
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Poodle » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:07 pm

... shakes head slowly in sorrow at the potential future of certain parts of the human race ...

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:36 pm

MatMSV7 AKA Miles Cordell AKA Kamil AKA Omniverse wrote:Lmao Sean, where did you get anthony from?

Well MattMSV7, you started two fake sock-puppets at the same time. Anthony a young boy from Indonesia, who couldn't speak Indonesian and wanted to know about NDEs, and Kamil, a young boy from Poland who couldn't speak Polish and wanted to know about NDEs. You then posted using both these names in your normal USA time zone because you don't know what time zones are.

What makes you uniquely stupid is that you used the same openings to sentences for all your sock-puppets, as you have a limited vocabulary. :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28320&p=585019&hilit=anthony+indonesia#p584969

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:48 pm

gorgeous wrote:the non-physical level has a great amount of unknown colors and music....
No Gorgeous. Your ignorant fantasy claim has been debunked five times now, and you don't have the brains to understand the debunk.

All colours are known as they are specific electromagnetic wave frequencies of light. As there are no unknown gaps in the range of frequencies there cannot be any additional colours.
colour light frquencies.jpg


Secondly, light frequencies are not actually colours. Our physical bodies have evolved "cones" in our eyes that convert different frequencies into colours. Without a physical body there is nothing to convert wave forms into the colours we see.
rods-and-cones.jpg
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby gorgeous » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:01 pm

wrong
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:04 pm

How so? Plz explain. :pc:
.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:05 pm

gorgeous wrote:wrong
No Gorgeous. You have to put up a counter argument. You simply don't have the brains to do that do you? :lol:

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Gord » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:41 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:...With light, white is the combination of all colors.
Image
With pigment, black is the combination of all colors.
Image
This is because when we view light, that's all we're viewing. But when we view pigment, we're viewing it in combination with light and what we perceive is the light reflected from the pigment.

Daaaang! Where were those images the last time I was trying to explain that to someone on youtube? 8-)

I had to settle for using words like "absorption" and "reflection".
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:52 pm

gorgeous wrote:wrong
Your "wrong" is wrong.
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Kamil » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:13 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
MatMSV7 AKA Miles Cordell AKA Kamil AKA Omniverse wrote:Lmao Sean, where did you get anthony from?

Well MattMSV7, you started two fake sock-puppets at the same time. Anthony a young boy from Indonesia, who couldn't speak Indonesian and wanted to know about NDEs, and Kamil, a young boy from Poland who couldn't speak Polish and wanted to know about NDEs. You then posted using both these names in your normal USA time zone because you don't know what time zones are.

What makes you uniquely stupid is that you used the same openings to sentences for all your sock-puppets, as you have a limited vocabulary. :lol:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28320&p=585019&hilit=anthony+indonesia#p584969


That's a pretty weak connection. 2 users ask about NDEs, and you automatically assume it is the same person. You do realize there are billions of people in the world and I'm sure you could find thousands who ask about NDEs. You have zero proof that we cannot speak those languages, and the time zone argument is stupid; anyone can be up at anytime for a variety of reasons. Simply saying 2 or 3 people ask similar questions therefore they must be 1 is just silly. I might as well say anyone who uses blue font to type is you.

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Re: Howard Storm, genuine, but true? Questions and Skeptical

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:17 am

MatMSV7 AKA Anthony AKA Kamil AKA Omniverse wrote:That's a pretty weak connection.
No it's what you do and I haven't mentioned all the evidence.

Are you still claiming to be a Polish teenager who thinks Jesus is real because people only see Jesus in NDE's

How come you can't speak Polish MatMSV7?
:lol:

Try trolling this forum.......it has all your answers.

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