Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

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Monster
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Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby Monster » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:07 am

I just finished reading On Visions and Resurrections in the current issue of Skeptic. This article is horrible! The author, Gary J. Whittenberger, proposes that Jesus's resurrection story is the result of multiple simultaneous hallucinations by at least two of his apostles. Utter nonsense! By far the most logical reason for the resurrection story is that it was just made up. A pox on Gary J. Whittenberger! A pox I say!
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Re: Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby Donnageddon » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:42 am

How will GJW explain the arrival of Santa Claus every Xmas eve? Multiple simultaneous hallucinations by at least 5 kagillion children?

I can only wish the Seattle Mariners on this lackadaisical pseudo typer of words.

Perhaps that is too harsh.
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Re: Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby Hex » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:02 am

Even back then, resurrection stories weren't exactly a new concept for a living god to deny death.

I like to call the writings in the bible, "creative" writing. And, like a lot of writers, they get parts of their ideas from existing works.

I do like the whole hallucination thing though. Thinking of current bible interpretations, the thought of Jesus' disciples being drug fiends makes the stories all that much better.


Edit: Sadly I'm still waiting for the current Skeptic Magazine to hit our newsstands.
Spoiler:
  TOYNBEE IDEA
IN KUBRICK'S 2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPITER  

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Re: Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby KevinS » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:09 pm

The simplest explanation is that Jesus didn't die on the cross. Jesus' crucifixion was stopped early. A coup de grace was required for the two criminals crucified beside him, but Jesus was not given a coup de grace. Only one solitary individual testified to Jesus' death: the centurion in charge, who was apparently a Christian himself. As if this didn't sufficiently compromise his testimony, the penalty for botching an execution was death by torture. So he had every reason to stick loudly to his story. This compromised witness also spoke in support when another Christian asked to retrieve the body; Jesus was removed in the dark after everyone had left to observe Sabbath.

References...

Mark 15:25,34-37 - The crucifixion was unusually brief.

Matt 27:48-50 - Jesus ingests drugs, then passes out.

Matt 27:54, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:47 - The centurian in charge of Jesus' execution was a believer.

Matt 27:55, Mark 15:40, Luke 23:49 - Jesus' followers watched the crucifixion from a distance (and therefore could not have confirmed his death.)

Luke 23:46, 48, 49 - When Jesus passes out from drugs, his followers leave (without examining his body).

Mark 15:44,45 - When Joseph of Arimathea claims that Jesus is dead, Pilate reacts with skepticism. The Christian centurion backs Joseph's claim.

Mark 15:46 - Joseph, a civilian, pulls the body directly from the cross, and removes it from the premises before anyone else (besides the christian centurion) has a chance to examine it.

Luke 23:52-54 - Joseph bandaged Jesus' body and hid him in a vacant tomb right beside the crucifixion site. Joseph hid the cave opening using a large rock.

Luke 24:12: After Jesus recovers and walks away from the grave, the linen grave wrappings become a cause for speculation among his followers.

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Re: Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby Gord » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:23 am

I don't think it's useful to consider the Bible as eyewitness testimony! It's hardly got the credence of a policeman's notebook, for example.
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Re: Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby whitmancharles » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:42 pm

The story is obviously fake! Do we have to say more? Is there any reason to even investigate where or how this crappy story came to be?

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Re: Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby KevinS » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:37 am

Eyewitness testimony is unreliable whether it was recorded 2000 years ago or five minutes ago. Nor do I blindly trust a policeman's notebook. Even the most reliable ancient historians have to be taken with a grain of salt. The crucifixion/resurrection story is a garbled mess pieced together by people who weren't there.

Most history is an exercise in what is "likely", not "provable". I find it likely that there once lived a Jewish revolutionary named Jesus; that he predicted he would resurrect 3 days after death; that he panicked and changed his mind on the cross; that crucifixion was prematurely terminated by one of his followers; and that an entire cult was founded by people who saw him post-crucifixion and jumped to the conclusion he had resurrected.

I'm interested to study the origions of any cult, so why not this one? It morphed into a religion that drove world history and still controls the thinking of my parents.

Refusing to discuss a subject because the answer is "obvious" will only persuade weak minded people.
Many Christians are self-brainwashed and refuse to consider any evidence. But for a few honest believers, seeing internal problems in the bible can be devastating, and eventually lead to an awakening. Hence the list of references I provided in my first post.

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Re: Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby Bunyip » Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:44 am

I do like the whole hallucination thing though.


Christianity presented NO new ideas,on any level.

The myth of the resurrected god is found in many pre Christian cultures,noticeably within fertility cults,where it is associated with spring.

I do think hallucinations are a reasonable explanation for the bizarre "Book Of Revelations". I've long thought the author(s) were under the influence of an hallucinogen,possibly due to ergot poisoning.
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Re: Current issue of Skeptic: On Visions and Resurrections

Postby KevinS » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:38 am

Bunyip wrote:I do think hallucinations are a reasonable explanation for the bizarre "Book Of Revelations".

I've wondered that myself.

I think readers during the period would have understood Revelations as veiled references to contemporary individuals and events. By writing it as a mythical allegory, the author retained plausible deniability while taking potshots at rivals and public figures.


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