Bill Nye on nuclear

Discussion of Skeptic magazine and Letters to the Editor
User avatar
ElectricMonk
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2367
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu May 18, 2017 3:58 am

Wow, that's​ lame, even by your standards.

They are NOT SAFE FOR CONSUMPTION, as determined by local health departments.
30 years after a nuclear disaster people still have to worry about contaminated food.

So you are saying that what is currently considerd safe levels are set to low? That people should eat food with more than 10x the limit?

Lance, please realize that you have only very narrow information about the effects of nuclear power, as you've obviously had never heard about food contamination in Europe before.
"As private parts to the gods are we! They play with us for their sport. "
- Lord Melchett, Blackadder II

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8602
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu May 18, 2017 5:16 am

EM

Remember I have not been able to read your first reference. The second said nothing more than make the ridiculous assertion that radioactive pigs are wandering around Europe.

But I think that you are, frankly, not much of a skeptic. You are prepared to believe anything an ignorant journalist says, without even requiring scientific data.

Nor is 'worry about contaminated food' necessarily a reflection of a genuine problem. As far as I know, this is just more paranoia. Finagle knows that enough paranoia circulates around anything to with radioactive substances.

I will try to download your first reference, but so far, it eludes me.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2367
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu May 18, 2017 5:35 am

They discovered that nearly half of the 614 pigs inspected between 2014 and 2016 were too radioactive to eat.


That isn't a reporter speaking, that is the Health Department, the equivalent of the FDA, making a statement: if they had sold those pigs, they could be criminally charged.
But if this is not enough for you, it is YOUR JOB to check that it's not important, not mine, since it is you who claims that this is not an issue.


Lance, you are truly being dishonest with any other source but your own. You seem to not give a f*'k about real-world consequences that don't fit into your idealized view of nuclear power.

Now, on a different note, VOX has put up a video about nuclear power you might or might not like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poPLSgbSO6k

which mostly confirms what I already said: current nuclear power is dead in all but name, and until we have better systems it will stay that way.
"As private parts to the gods are we! They play with us for their sport. "
- Lord Melchett, Blackadder II

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8602
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu May 18, 2017 7:20 am

EM

I still have not seen any data. This may be because I have not been able to download your reference, but as things are right now, I have nothing to reply to, except the second reference, which was nonsense.

Your VOX video is sensible, and agrees with my position. They stated clearly that the biggest problem with nuclear energy is people. ie. politics. The new technologies they are working on have enormous potential.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2367
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu May 18, 2017 8:10 am

Lance, get of your high horse and google it yourself:
if you trust that nuclear power is so safe, you shouldn't be so afraid of what you will find.

I already told you, and any extra search will tell you: the limit exceeded by more than 10x in many cases, which is 600bq/kg.

http://www.iflscience.com/environment/w ... ctive-eat/


And no, the video directly contradicts your assertions in many ways.

Lance, you are not a credible discussion partner, since you are unwilling to endanger your fixed views without being forced to do so.
"As private parts to the gods are we! They play with us for their sport. "
- Lord Melchett, Blackadder II

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8602
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby Lance Kennedy » Thu May 18, 2017 7:58 pm

When you say 'more than 10X', I assume you are talking government set limits?

Like most people, you probably have no idea what that means, so I will tell you. Government limits are usually 1% of the NOAEL. The NOAEL is the no observable adverse effect limit. That is, the maximum dose that can be shown to cause no measurable harm.

So when something is 10X, what this really means is one tenth of a dose already shown to be harmless.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7606
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu May 18, 2017 9:15 pm

I must be pretty stupid because I read EM's post as saying the reported exposures were 10 times more than the supposed safe level.

Words.

What ya gonna do?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2367
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby ElectricMonk » Fri May 19, 2017 6:04 am

Lance, you are completely missing the point, which is why your protests about irrational people is understandable but at the same time laughable.

So again my simple question: would YOU eat food known to be radioactively contaminated with 10x the limit considered safe for human food?
Would you let your children eat it?
"As private parts to the gods are we! They play with us for their sport. "
- Lord Melchett, Blackadder II

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8602
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby Lance Kennedy » Fri May 19, 2017 8:09 pm

For a start, it is not ten times what is considered safe. It is one tenth of what has been demonstrated to be harmless using empirical laboratory studies. Now, admittedly that could have been done on a laboratory animal. But the government set so called safe levels are actually a political decision, to cover the arses of the politicians. They put in a one hundred fold margin of error tomake sure they can never, ever, be found wrong. This is politics. Not science.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2367
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby ElectricMonk » Sat May 20, 2017 4:49 am

Evasion, evasion.

It IS 10x what is considered safe BY LOCAL HEALTH AUTHORITIES.

And again, I guess you have no issue with feeding your children with this?

The problem you really, REALLY work hard to ignore is bio-accumulation: we are NOT talking about single dosage here: the boars get radioactively hot because they accumulate the radiation that before have been accumulated by the mushrooms.
People on a regular diet of contaminated foods DO accumulate them, steadily increasing their exposure to radioactivity.

We expect the same to happen in the case of Fukoshima, where it will take another 30 years for the leaked radioactivity to accumulate to dangerous levels in sea creatures:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _Northwest

Even if what you say is correct and the levels are mostly harmless, WE STILL HAVE TO MONITOR THEM! We have to know if they rise to truly lethal levels or not - that means that every major nuclear accident causes damage to humans and the environment even many decades after it happened, and ties up resources for management.

Unless one is fundamentally irresponsible like you and and just assumes that everything will be fine.
"As private parts to the gods are we! They play with us for their sport. "
- Lord Melchett, Blackadder II

User avatar
Lance Kennedy
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8602
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:20 pm
Custom Title: Super Skeptic
Location: Paradise, New Zealand

Re: Bill Nye on nuclear

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat May 20, 2017 5:34 am

EM

Some of what you say, I agree with. Yes, it is important to monitor things. Yes, an elevated level of radioactivity in mushrooms is something to take note of, and watch.

Where we are at odds is your naive and gullible acceptance of government statements as if it was science. It is not. And ten times a government 'safety llimit' is still ten times too low to be of real concern.

On me eating mushrooms. I am the wrong guy to ask, since I dislike the taste and do not eat the mushrooms grown here in very clean NZ. But if I were hungry enough, I would eat them. With distaste.


Return to “SKEPTIC Magazine: Letters & Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest