Oil pulling

[NeroXIV]

... lacking definite evidence, I tried to circumvent the proving of  my previous point, ...

Retraction accepted!

[surrounded]

Oil "pulling" as a cure-all etc. is pretty far fetched,  as a dental treatment, there could be something there as we already know that what you put in your mouth affects you mouth, sugars and acids erode enamel and promote decay,  mouth rinse and mouthwash reduce bacteria, very simple stuff, so there could be some benefit from oil exposure, worth a study.

[NeroXIV]

... so there could be some benefit from oil exposure, worth a study.

Is oil swishing more worthy of study than vinegar swishing or goat milk swishing?

[surrounded]

The equivelent of vinegar swishing has been studied, as dentits will tell you acids erode tooth enamel.(if you did it briefly followed by a water rinse to remove the acid, it would probably reduce the oral bacteria as vinegar has been shown to kill bacteria almost as well as bleach  ) Goat milk?   The reason I find the oil thing interesting is the claim it is and has been done by many people for many years. AND is not believed to be some supernatural thing.  Brushing and flossing were probably scoffed at at one time.  Maybe not a helpful procedure but possible.  The test would be easy cheap and safe.

[NeroXIV]

The test would be easy cheap and safe.

The website www.oilpulling.com claims that OP cures the following:

Pains in the body and problems pertaining to neck and above
Allergy and respiratory problems of lungs like asthma, bronchitis etc
Skin problems like pigmentation, itching, scars, black patches, and eczema etc
Digestive system
Constipation
Arthritis and joint pains
Heart disease and B.P
Diabetes
Piles
Diseases pertaining to female reproductive system reported by women
Diseases like Polio, Cancer, Leprosy, polycystic kidney, neural fibroma, paralysis etc

Would all these claims be tested? Is it "easy cheap and safe" to take diabetics off their regular treatments and try OP on them?

[mater deum]

Off Topic (Oil Pulling) but on another topic just posted (taking diabetics off their drugs).  It is possible to go off all meds. if one is frequently monitoring one's blood and taking care with exercise and a healthy diet for diabetics.  One must not assume that diabetes Type 2 is a lifetime disease.  It's a disease that can be cured completely by making lifestyle changes.  That's something that doctors (aka. the legal drug pushers) don't want you to know about or try.

There was once a time when doctors scoffed at the idea called free radical theory of aging.  Now it's accepted.

[NeroXIV]

Off Topic ...

Yes.

[surrounded]

As I stated,  claims other than as a topical mouth treatment did not interest me in further study.    Based on my knowledge of oral health (earned through way too much time in the dentist chair ugh) maybe the substance that bonds the tarter are soluable in fat and is "swished" away, or the long exposure to oil smothers bacterial colonies., nothing too deep. If it is a "traditional practice" in some cultures, that alone warrants interest and possibly study. Especially if the people that do it have good teeth!

[JJM]

Orac on oil pulling

[St. Jimmy]

Ahh, yes, like the guy pushing organic fruit at me.....

But what if he comes at you with a poin-ted stick?

[St. Jimmy]

If it is a "traditional practice" in some cultures, that alone warrants interest and possibly study. Especially if the people that do it have good teeth!

Meh.  The people living in Central and South America had the "traditional practice" of human sacrifice, and they developed better calendars than the Europeans of the day.

Post hoc ergo propter? I think not.

[kebod]

A study on the effects of oil pulling on plaque and gingivitis:

http://www.johcd.org/pdf/Effect_of_Oil_ ... ivitis.pdf

kebod

[Electric Monk]

A study on the effects of oil pulling on plaque and gingivitis:

http://www.johcd.org/pdf/Effect_of_Oil_ ... ivitis.pdf

kebod

An interesting read. This is only a preliminary study, with 10 participants over 45 days. Each had to swish refined sunflower oil in their mouths for 8-10 minutes a day, early in the morning light, on an empty stomach. A significant reduction in "plaque score" and "gingivitis score" was found.

The major problems I see with this study are:

1. No control group. The participants were limited to those who did not perform any other type of oral rinse. It's not clear whether the same effects could have been achieved by swishing water around. There is a discussion at the end comparing their reductions to those in other studies, but it is not at all clear how their scoring method compares.

2. Not blinded. The participants were supposedly blinded to the purpose of the study, but this seems unlikely to have been effective, given all that the patients had to be instructed on. The experimenters were completely unblinded.

3. Single, unblinded subjective evaluation of the results. A single person evaluated the results for all subjects on flexible, subjective criteria. The evaluation of repeatability showed that the initial/subsequent evaluation of the same tooth on the same day had a correlation of .81 for plaque and .75 for gingevitis. That doesn't seem very reliable. (But I'm no expert.)

All in all, I'd say it's not a meaningful study. Maybe they can use it to get funding for a real study on these effects.

--James

[surrounded]

If it is a "traditional practice" in some cultures, that alone warrants interest and possibly study. Especially if the people that do it have good teeth!

Meh.  The people living in Central and South America had the "traditional practice" of human sacrifice, and they developed better calendars than the Europeans of the day.

Post hoc ergo propter? I think not.

.....And you know this because the "traditonal practice" you refer to warranted intersest and study!

[St. Jimmy]

If it is a "traditional practice" in some cultures, that alone warrants interest and possibly study. Especially if the people that do it have good teeth!

Meh.  The people living in Central and South America had the "traditional practice" of human sacrifice, and they developed better calendars than the Europeans of the day.

Post hoc ergo propter? I think not.

.....And you know this because the "traditonal practice" you refer to warranted intersest and study!

No... human sacrifice doesn't seem like a good idea to test to me. The quality of those calendars was discovered independently of of the knowledge about the human sacrifices.

[JB Mason]

It looks like the heated debate has long since died down here, but I figured it was time to add some actual scientific data to the mix.

Oil pulling is known, and can be proven, to have significant oral health benefits on a par with chlorhexidine.  Given the known link between gum disease and other aspects of poor oral health and serious illnesses (diabetes, heart failure, etc) , it is not unreasonable to find some of the claims that have been made about oil pulling as a cure-all.  http://www.perio.org/consumer/mbc.heart.htm http://www.perio.org/consumer/mbc.respiratory.htm  The body is a holistic system.

If you're still skeptical, here's a fantastic opportunity to repeat a precise experiment and see if your results match those of the doctors who performed this study:
http://www.johcd.org/pdf/Effect_of_Oil_ ... ivitis.pdf

Hope his helps.

--JB

[JJM]

...  Oil pulling is known, and can be proven, to have significant oral health benefits on a par with chlorhexidine.

Well, a citation for this would be nice.  

Given the known link between gum disease and other aspects of poor oral health and serious illnesses (diabetes, heart failure, etc) , it is not unreasonable to find some of the claims that have been made about oil pulling as a cure-all.  http://www.perio.org/consumer/mbc.heart.htm http://www.perio.org/consumer/mbc.respiratory.htm  The body is a holistic system.

The fact sheets you linked feature some conjecture and some certainties.  However, there is no mention of oil pulling.  So, claims that oil-pulling has any effect on heart or lung disease remains speculation.  

If you're still skeptical, here's a fantastic opportunity to repeat a precise experiment and see if your results match those of the doctors who performed this study:  http://www.johcd.org/pdf/Effect_of_Oil_ ... ivitis.pdf  ...

That study was an uncontrolled, unblinded trial with only 10 subjects.  The authors noted the possibility that their results may simply reflect the fact that the people were in a study and paid better attention to their dental hygiene, overall.  To that I will add that the scoring is subjective and was done by someone with an interest in seeing a positive result.  

If someone wanted to try it on himself, he might have trouble scoring the results; but, if that can be done, it would only add one more data point to a poor study protocol.  And it still would not support the notion that oil-pulling has extensive benefits; those claims remain conjecture.

[NeroXIV]

If you're still skeptical, here's a fantastic opportunity to repeat a precise experiment and see if your results match those of the doctors who performed this study:  http://www.johcd.org/pdf/Effect_of_Oil_ ... ivitis.pdf  ...

That study was an uncontrolled, unblinded trial with only 10 subjects....

Plus, the same study was cited and responded to only 3 or 4 posts ago...

[sputnik]

There is some excellent information in this post. I find this Oil pulling stuff to be really interesting. I mean if you can supposedly remove toxins from your body by swishing oil around in your mouth for a little bit why not give it a try. Anyways, I found some interesting information that explaing what Pulling Oil, Oil pulling or whatever you want to call it is about. If anyone else is interested it can be found  -> http://pullingoil.skootu.com/2010/02/22/what-is-pulling-oil/. Does anyone know if this stuff actually works?

[JJM]

There is some excellent information in this post. I find this Oil pulling stuff to be really interesting. I mean if you can supposedly remove toxins from your body ... Does anyone know if this stuff actually works?

"Detoxification" schemes (in the sCAM arena) are always bogus.  It certainly doesn't remove any "toxins."

[Nabarun Ghoshal]

100 years ago, there were all such practices. How many patients were cured? Men died of Typhoid, Syphilis, Tuberculosis, Diabetes, Cholera, Peptic ulcer, Malaria, and many other common illnesses that even rural quacks can cure nowadays with the help of modern medicines. Even cancer and AIDS are also under some control. Small Pox has been eradicated. Heart surgeries are successful in more than 90% cases. The world population has tripled in this period due to curing of diseases, prevention of diseases by vaccination and control of perinatal deaths and post surgical deaths by effective aseptic procedures.

Whom should we give credit to this development? Obviously, to the persons dedicated to the development of the modern medical system and not to the dogmatic followers of older systems of medicines that has now a new name i.e. "Alternative Medicine".  Why go for an alternative to the system that has been proved to be most effective in treating diseases?

I think it is better to follow the medical science that has relieved mankind of a lot of owes in the last 100 years and is still engaged in further studies to find out more effective methods of treatment of diseases.

[Rod]

I've been swishing Sesame Oil in my mouth b4 breakfast for 20 minutes each time for the past 12 days:

I suffer from:

-gingivitis, some bad teeth (paintful at times), plaque on my teeth

-Sinusitis

I can honestly say that I DO NOT FEEL AS ANYTHING HAS BEEN CHAGED in my situation. People who claim they've got some sort of result after only a few days are simply not telling the truth - I have not got any positive feelings from oil-pulling at all and so far it has proved to be a waste of time and energy BUT ... I am going to continue with it for at least another 2 months and then I will make another post here.

In fact the only thing that stops my gums from bleeding and stops the pain a bit, is salt-water and not oil-pulling, not in my so far experience!



My teeth's colour has not become any whiter at all and I am very disappointed.

[Nabarun Ghoshal]

I've been swishing Sesame Oil in my mouth b4 breakfast for 20 minutes each time for the past 12 days:

I suffer from:

-gingivitis, some bad teeth (paintful at times), plaque on my teeth

-Sinusitis

I can honestly say that I DO NOT FEEL AS ANYTHING HAS BEEN CHAGED in my situation. People who claim they've got some sort of result after only a few days are simply not telling the truth - I have not got any positive feelings from oil-pulling at all and so far it has proved to be a waste of time and energy BUT ... I am going to continue with it for at least another 2 months and then I will make another post here.

In fact the only thing that stops my gums from bleeding and stops the pain a bit, is salt-water and not oil-pulling, not in my so far experience!



My teeth's colour has not become any whiter at all and I am very disappointed.

This suggests that we should better stick to the scientific treatment that has helped mankind get rid of many ailments that were thought to be irrevocable curses on man. The other kinds of medicine had their day, but now it is better to go for the evolved form.

[Rod]

Try the oil pulling.  I want to hear from every one of you how stupid it is after about 2 weeks.

My sister tried it for two weeks. It didn't do anything for her. It's stupid.

Yes, I agree. I'm going to stop, it's a waste of time - I'd rather use the sesame oil I'm using for my cooking and save myself the money!

I'm amazed at how some people manage to make themselves  believe that this stuff works - how come some people claim oil-pulling whitens their teeth and it's had no effect on mine? Aren't all humans' teeth made of the same stuff??!

[Nabarun Ghoshal]

Try the oil pulling.  I want to hear from every one of you how stupid it is after about 2 weeks.

My sister tried it for two weeks. It didn't do anything for her. It's stupid.

Yes, I agree. I'm going to stop, it's a waste of time - I'd rather use the sesame oil I'm using for my cooking and save myself the money!

I'm amazed at how some people manage to make themselves  believe that this stuff works - how come some people claim oil-pulling whitens their teeth and it's had no effect on mine? Aren't all humans' teeth made of the same stuff??!

Rational thinking needs a scientific bent of mind which still most people are lacking in.

[Gord]

Try the oil pulling.  I want to hear from every one of you how stupid it is after about 2 weeks.

My sister tried it for two weeks. It didn't do anything for her. It's stupid.

Yes, I agree. I'm going to stop, it's a waste of time - I'd rather use the sesame oil I'm using for my cooking and save myself the money!

I'm amazed at how some people manage to make themselves  believe that this stuff works - how come some people claim oil-pulling whitens their teeth and it's had no effect on mine? Aren't all humans' teeth made of the same stuff??!

I hear George Washington's were carved out of cherry wood.

[Nabarun Ghoshal]

Try the oil pulling.  I want to hear from every one of you how stupid it is after about 2 weeks.

My sister tried it for two weeks. It didn't do anything for her. It's stupid.

Yes, I agree. I'm going to stop, it's a waste of time - I'd rather use the sesame oil I'm using for my cooking and save myself the money!

I'm amazed at how some people manage to make themselves  believe that this stuff works - how come some people claim oil-pulling whitens their teeth and it's had no effect on mine? Aren't all humans' teeth made of the same stuff??!

I hear George Washington's were carved out of cherry wood.

Where did you hear it? Was it aired by some carpenters' enterprise?

[numan]

I think it is better to follow the medical science that has relieved mankind of a lot of owes in the last 100 years and is still engaged in further studies to find out more effective methods of treatment of diseases.

All the points you make are good ones, but you (surprisingly!) ignore the evil effects capitalist exploitation has had on medicine. Here in North America, medicine is big business, and the purpose of this business is to make money, and not to help people. People are brainwashed by the big pharmaceutical companies and medical suppliers to do things which not only do not help but which harm! More profits that way! The Hippocratic Oath is a dead letter.

So yes, scientific medicine is to be respected, but capitalist medicine? Definitely not! Let the buyer beware!

Our medical system is said to have been reduced to "knives and poisons." There is some truth to that.

.

[Gord]

I hear George Washington's were carved out of cherry wood.

Where did you hear it? Was it aired by some carpenters' enterprise?

No.  MADtv, I think.

[matthewcornell]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post. I'm skeptical of the claims, but I'm willing to try it out as an experiment. Is anyone interested joining me on Edison (http://edison.thinktrylearn.com/)? My periodontist, who keeps his mind open (thought doesn't let his brain fall out :-) hadn't heard of it, but his top-of-the-head thought was that it might make sense (I forget his rationale). I'll ask my excellent hygienist next month about the risks, though they sound minimal given the above discussion. (Dental side note: I'm running another personal experiment, "adopt a new oral care regime," at http://edison.thinktrylearn.com/experiments/show/149)

Cheers!

matt

[Graumagier]

So yes, scientific medicine is to be respected, but capitalist medicine? Definitely not! Let the buyer beware!

So, what about big sCAM with their billion-dollar industry?

[lagoonal]

Some of you are honestly really hilarious in your stern denial of anything natural. Do I believe oil pulling can help you rid the most devastating disease. No. But do I have these diseases? No. Because the guy above comes back with his NON scientific view on oil pulling now we should all believe him. It's as if skeptics are okay believing skeptics yet they cannot handle when someone that is a so called 'believer' presents his or her benefits. They should be completely ignored in your world. Holistic medicine came along a lot sooner than any sort of pharma concoction and it does have to be said just about every pharma patent is from a plant or extract that came from nature. You people need to get a clue. Your science is refined natural therapy. Now it is a BIG business of crooks and false claims.

As a student of history I find it very humorous that all of you proponents of science forget that it is the modern world that has introduced most of our diseases to the original cultures. That simply cannot be argued. I am a half and half here. Meaning half science and half natural. I just find some of you to be completely redundant and obscured.

But I must say oil pulling has worked wonders along with sea salt therapies for my mouth. Indeed, oil pulling has made my teeth a shade whiter, nothing extreme, but it is indeed noticeable. I oil pull once every couple days or so. I guess I could notice that my mouth felt better after about a month. And it very much helps when I drink alcohol hard and the oral parts feel terrible the day after. I'm oil pulling now lol! Anyway, this therapy DEFINITELY has oral benefits whether you want to believe I don't care. But come on. If you have teeth problems you have diet problems.

This stuff isn't going to FIX YOUR LIFE IMO. You need to get those minerals and vitamins, too. Strange things happen in this world. I don't have a debilitating disease and I have never had to use this as such. But with regular sea salt washes and oil pulling I feel very comfortable that I am doing the best I can for my teeth. I do have an upper back wisdom tooth that needs to be kept in check because a small part of it cracked so this definitely helps kill bacteria in my experience. I use organic sunflower oil.

[lagoonal]

I don't see an edit button so I must say this: your mind is your most powerful tool. If you go into anything dead set on failing you will indeed fail. Just a word of help. You cannot possibly sit there oil pulling while thinking negative thoughts about oil pulling and how it is all bull**** and then expect things to be perfect. Try not thinking about it at all. Try thinking hey I am trying to do something right for my body and it is going to help. And give it time. If you feel nothing has worked after a month then think about other ways to help yourself. And start with your diet. Whole foods, sprouted foods, minerals like magnesium and calcium in balance, exercise, etc. It has been researched and documented how negative thoughts can turn our body's PH into a catastrophe. Keep that in mind. Your body's PH and food you eat are intrinsically linked. Simple Lemon water is one of the most alkaline and healthy detox's you could ever hope for.

[Gord]

Some of you are honestly really hilarious in your stern denial of anything natural. Do I believe oil pulling can help you rid the most devastating disease. No. But do I have these diseases? No. Because the guy above comes back with his NON scientific view on oil pulling now we should all believe him. It's as if skeptics are okay believing skeptics yet they cannot handle when someone that is a so called 'believer' presents his or her benefits. They should be completely ignored in your world. Holistic medicine came along a lot sooner than any sort of pharma concoction and it does have to be said just about every pharma patent is from a plant or extract that came from nature. You people need to get a clue. Your science is refined natural therapy. Now it is a BIG business of crooks and false claims.

Skeptics don't particularly care who makes extraordinary claims, we care about the evidence.  Show us the evidence, rather than making unsupported claims, and we'll all look at it.

[Bunyip]

Some oils are very good indeed and there is a lo tof evidence to support many of the claims of health benefits.

I use only extra virgin olive oil in cooking. I also take fish oil as soil for arthritis and heart,.recommended by my doctor and bought from my local pharmacy.  

I'm also put in mind of the film  "Lorenzo's Oil". 'based on the true story' of Augusto and  Michaela Odone.

 Augusto Odone (born May 4, 1933) and Michaela Teresa Murphy Odone (January 10, 1939 – June 10, 2000) are the parents of Lorenzo Odone (May 29, 1978 – May 30, 2008), a child afflicted with the illness adrenoleukodystrophy (ALD). They became famous for discovering a treatment using Lorenzo's oil, for their son's "incurable" illness, and this quest was recounted in the film Lorenzo's Oil (1992). [1]

In recognition of the parents' work, Augusto Odone has received an honorary doctorate from the University of Stirling. He continues to raise funds and drive the scientific task force known as The Myelin Project. Michaela Odone battled cancer for some time, and finally died of lung cancer at 61.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_odone


Taking any new medicine or supplement is fine,if it is supported by evidence.  Does it matter if the person is not being swindled out of money they cannot afford and are not harming themselves?. In my opinion, there is a limit to which anyone can or should go to protect adults  from the consequences of their own  behaviour.

[Graumagier]

I'm also put in mind of the film  "Lorenzo's Oil". 'based on the true story' of Augusto and  Michaela Odone.

I don't know the movie, but did you actually read up on the evidence supporting Lorenzo's oil?

Does it matter if the person is not being swindled out of money they cannot afford and are not harming themselves?

That seems to be a fine attitude for CAM practitioners, but real medical professionals do have an ethical code…

[exgringo]

If it supposedly "pulls" toxic metals out of the mouth you could test the oil before and after the "swishing" using a mass spectrometer.

Also there is some evidence of olive oil waste being used for heavy metal adsorption in industrial applications.
http://www.aseanfood.info/Articles/11017594.pdf

Don't know if the same principles could be applied?

[Graumagier]

Don't know if the same principles could be applied?

Given that your oral cavity is chock full with heavy metals, sur–oh, wait…

[cigana]

Dear all,

I am a professional scientist and have recently started oil pulling (about 2.5 weeks ago). My motivation was to try to reduce daily tooth pain, which my dentist has not been able to help me with. I am truly amazed by the results - my tooth ache has reduced by about 60%. But other than that the small bumps on the back of my arms (keratosis pilaris) have reduced by about 80%. This was something totally unexpected and I had no idea oil pulling would produce changes in my body other than in my mouth. How this works I have no idea.

Other changes I've noticed are an increase in the quality of my facial skin (smoother, cleaner), reduced bags under my eyes and no more "sleep" in my eyes when I awake.

I am looking forward to more success.

If anyone out there has problems which may be helped by oil pulling, please don't be put off by the lack of medical trials - these are unlikely to ever happen given the amount of skepticism present on this website!

I would also add that I follow what I believe to be a very healthy diet (all unprocessed whole grains with lots of vegetables [particularly green leafy], pulses and some fruit). This may be one reason why oil pulling works for some and not others.

Cheers,

Cigana

[Graumagier]

Allright, let's play a game of "spot that logical fallacy"!

I am a professional scientist

Argument from authority.

I am truly amazed by the results - my tooth ache has reduced by about 60%.

Appealing to anecdotal evidence.

But other than that the small bumps on the back of my arms (keratosis pilaris) have reduced by about 80%.

Appeal to anecdotal evidence.

Other changes I've noticed are an increase in the quality of my facial skin (smoother, cleaner), reduced bags under my eyes and no more "sleep" in my eyes when I awake.

And even more appeals to anecdotal evidence. Plus, how would the severity of sleep eyes be any reasonable outcome to measure? Just curious…

I am looking forward to more success.

Falling for expectation bias.

If anyone out there has problems which may be helped by oil pulling, please don't be put off by the lack of medical trials - these are unlikely to ever happen given the amount of skepticism present on this website!

Hmm. Here we have a straw man, an appeal to rebellion, and an appeal to "absence of evidence is no evidence of absence". Nice one!

I would also add that I follow what I believe to be a very healthy diet (all unprocessed whole grains with lots of vegetables [particularly green leafy], pulses and some fruit). This may be one reason why oil pulling works for some and not others.

And of course a nice naturalistic fallacy to top it off, plus a cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Not bad for starters, maybe jam a stronger appeal to popularity in there and it's nearly perfect.