Oil pulling

[A-number]

 
So her new panacea is "oil pulling" or "oil swishing." From what I know, you put some oil in your mouth (I forget what kind, but obviously not the petroleum type) and swish it around for 20 MINUTES.  This is important because there's supposedly some vein under your tongue that all your body's circulated blood reaches, and the oil, um, sucks out the toxins from the blood in this vein.  It's supposed to cure, like, everything.    Did you follow?  (If so, could you explain it to me?)

This is the stupidest and dumbest thing I have every heard in my entire life for the endorser as well as for whoever actually want to test or verify it.  And how is this stupid oil is supposed to suck whatever, through some a hole? and where is that hole gonna be "drained" ? through the vein?
Just what basis could someone expect such dorky "plate" to have? scientific or not? NONE.

[Kitiara]

Oh, well, hard heads scare away kebod, hard heads win, woo-hoo.

Jim, I would imagine that bacteria is only one of the causes of appendicitis [I found several for cataracts].

I experienced the appendix inflammation 20 years ago, by taking doses of erythromycin too close together, silly me.
I was prostrated by the pain, and when I was able to stand, I hit my books, and finding SEB as a potential solution [my mom was Director of Nurses, and built an intensive care surgical unit, herself, she provided the side effects of Erythromycin [PDR?] to me-I went from there].
The health food stores had closed, it was after 7pm, that I could even straighten myself to stand, for the pain. I called my vitamin distributor, a mentor with a huge knowledge of alti meds, and she searched her cupboards for SEB. After I got to her house, and within a few minutes of ingestion, the excruciating pain went away.
I treated a dog last week with the stuff, and have used it for 20 years for internal distress. No panacea. If something is swollen, it may be soothed. I used also Tribessin and buffered aspirin on the dog, at the times when it was indicated, based on the incomplete diagnosis. We will go to the vet next week, although the screaming medical emergency of last week is gone, and he is fine, we will attempt to determine the cause of his problem next week. It was either his attempting to pass an undescended testicle, gastric torsion, or a pulled muscle [somewhere]. It is a one year old, extremely active and 70+lb. Labrador. He is all smiles this week, with no impromptu surgeries, may I add.

[Old Jack]

Gidday

You may as well give up Molly.  They are just a pack of dick heads.  They are not true skeptics but more just stupid little school boys wanting an arguement.

They want to stick to scientificly tested stuff but such crap has cost 195000 American lives over a three year period, and then they try to ridicule anyone who wants to try out something that the bloody drug companies won't be able to make billions out of.

[mater deum]

Indeed, Jack.  It is a little like arguing the necessity of washing one's hands between patients.  Once the medical community balked at that.
 
Medicine isn't interested in a procedure or 'natural' remedy if it will cost them a reduction in  patient visits.  I would propose a different sort of public health care system that would pay doctors according to how well they educate/motivate their patients in preventative medicine. The less often your patients needed medical care in hospital,etc , the more he/she would get paid.  Also, if the old diehard traditional patients wanted to see a doctor for every sneeze and sniffle, they could pay a user fee.  Use the system more?  You'll pay more.

It's time we stopped rewarding doctors for being pill pushers for everything. (Thanks, Doc.  We all are ever thankful for the Superbugs and drug resistant TB.  Thanks for pushing antibiotics so 'efficiently' for so long. BTW, 1 in every 9 patients will now get an infection in hospital.  Some of them are the nasty Superbugs.)

[Kitiara]

Yeah, a friend of mine just got a hospital acquired infection when there for surgery. He had a successful surgery, but the infection nearly killed him. When I commented that it was good he was in a hospital to be cared for, for the infection, many more experienced people around me, said no, that is where he got the infection, and the faster a person gets out of a hospital, the more likely they are to survive

I think we are going towards socialized medicine in the US. People are just too tired of this giant scam we call a health system.

I have a funny about doctors that does give them a touch of credit:

Mechanic & Cardiologist

A mechanic was removing a cylinder-head from the motor of a Harley motorcycle when he spotted a well-known cardiologist in his shop.
The cardiologist was there waiting for the service manager to come take a look at his bike when the mechanic shouted across the garage:
"Hey Doc, want to take a look at this?"
The cardiologist, a bit surprised, walked over to where the mechanic was working on the motorcycle.  The mechanic straightened up, wiped his hands on a rag and asked:
"So Doc, look at this engine. I open its heart, take the valves out, repair any damage, and then put them back in, and when I finish, it works just like new. So how come I make $39,675 a year (a pretty small salary) and you get the really big bucks ($1,695,759) when you and I are doing basically the same work?"
The cardiologist paused, smiled and  leaned over, then whispered to the mechanic...
"Try doing it with  the engine running."

[NeroXIV]

It is a little like arguing the necessity of washing one's hands between patients.  Once the medical community balked at that.

Are you implying that we shouldn't argue against anything the medical community balks at?

Medicine isn't interested in a procedure or 'natural' remedy if it will cost them a reduction in  patient visits.  

Why do you put sneer quotes around a term you take seriously?

[A-number]

    Maaaaan, do  I now know what they mean by Woooo !!!!!!

[Major Malfunction]

I can understand the oral hygine angle. Only specific bacteria can survive in oil. But an alcohol mouthwash, or even salty water, would probably have the same antibacterial benefits. Especially if applied for the duration suggested for oil pulling.

The rest, I reckon, is a total crock.

[A-number]

She didn't bring it up as mouth wash, but as "body wash"      

[NeroXIV]

They are just a pack of dick heads.

By putting a space between "dick" and "heads," are you saying they are a group of the ends ("heads") of penises? Because that's a new one. I like it! You could say things like, "suck a bag of dick heads!" Or did you mean "dickheads," as in the lame insult that little school boys are fond of? Because then you might as well call them "poo poo faces" or "big dummies."

[Kitiara]

*Kitiara winces, and thinks Skep Com is a better place for all that language, and wonders if her potty mouth will click in tonight*  

[Major Malfunction]

I believe the anatomical term is glans.

[Kitiara]

For my potty mouth?

[Major Malfunction]

For a dick's head. Potty mouth would be halitosis.

[Old Jack]

Gidday

Hey Major, that's a bloody beauty.  Glans.  I see it can also be glanz.

With osmosis a toxin in the mouth can draw a similar toxin through a membrane until there are equal concentrations on both sides of the membrane.

Glanz

[Major Malfunction]

Right. That's why you can get drunk by just swilling and spitting out wine all day (if your profession is a wine taster).

BUT. Your kidneys can process about 1 litre of blood per minute using step-wise filtration from micro, to nano to osmosis. I can't find a stat for the filtration surface area of kidneys, but I can bloody-well guarrentee it is vastly HUGER than your mouth. As unlikely as that may seem.

[Old Jack]

Gidday

Well I know of some bloody big mouths Eh!

[Major Malfunction]

Indeed. The benefits of oil pulling are directly proportional to the surface area of one's mouth.

[A-number]

Can any of you imagine themselves or anybody else "rounding and rounding" some stinky oil in their mouth for the purpose of "purifying" the body??? I can't.

[Kitiara]

I am sure I would puke, and break out in zits from whatever I could not wash out of my mouth.

[St. Jimmy]

I am sure I would puke, and break out in zits from whatever I could not wash out of my mouth.

Aha! Another claim about oil pulling! Surely those who would promote it would find this objectionnable, and would ask for evidence of the negative side-effects?

A-Number, I know of people doing much weirder things to themselves because they think it's good for them. I should think you can get used to oil, just like mouthwash.

[A-number]

Hell no, I wouldn't. I could use it as a sun screen perhaps and still, I will have to see what kind of oil, but not as mouth wash, if I run out of toothpaste I'd just shew fresh mint.

[Kitiara]

Eeuww, mouthwash.
I'm good with a toothbrush, but other than a thorough scrubbing, a rinse does nothing for me.
Unless my teeth hurt.
I will concede that mouthwash can be good for you. I think the good ones taste awful.

Body oil should be the fresh coconut stuff from Hawaii.

[mengster]

hi everyone--

i went to a dermatologist the other day about some brown dots on my shoulders, and the doctor diagnosed it as keratosis pilaris (KP) and gave me a lotion to try. granted, my condition isn't very serious, but i wanted to learn a bit more about the condition and so i googled it. this led me to a KP forum (http://www.keratosispilaris.org/) where there's a tremendously long thread about oil pulling and its ability to treat KP (as well as other things). oil pulling sounds good and simple, but of course you can't believe everything you read online and so i started searching for scientific evidence to the contrary. which is how i stumbled onto this site.

now i admit i haven't read every post in this thread, but frankly i'm somewhat disappointed. this site is supposed to be about the "promotion of science", and all i see regarding OP is people making unbacked claims and prancing about the topic in general. for example, someone brought up history-- who cares what people in india did/do? it has no relevance to whether or not OP actually works. also, "i can think of no mechanism" is not an argument.

simply put, if you want to be skeptical about OP, run some experiments. maybe not like the one proposed about grass, but to me it seems simple-- if certain toxins can be identified in swished oil but not in unswished oil or saliva, at least the OP principle works (whether or not it's healthy is another issue). i'll admit that this may be difficult to determine (microscopy? chromatography?) but i would hope someone in this forum could do it. not a scientist you say? well then why do you believe you can make legitimate arguments in this forum?

[JJM]

hi everyone--

... not a scientist you say? well then why do you believe you can make legitimate arguments in this forum?

Darwin once wrote "Ignorance more often begets confidence than knowledge."

Articulett has a link to an American Psych Assn paper concerning overconfidence
Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

You can go to Quackwatch and search for detoxification.  Although "oil pulling" is not listed there, it is as irrational as the stuff that is.

[St. Jimmy]

Mengster,

glad to see someone asking the right questions.
You have correctly identified the vast majority of nonsense around here.
However, ***excuse warning***, I don't have the means to run a proper experiment. I don't have any of the incurable illnesses it's supposed to be good against, for one (unless it's supposedly effective gainst intracranial hypertension, which I doubt). Plus running experiments on oneself is not the best way to do science. And my friends would just think I'm weird.

If you're looking for proper scientists, I would suggest looking for real people.

[Molly Bloom]

Nero was asking me if I was basing my opinion on 2 people.  No, I'm basing my opinion on 100's of people.  I believe the quack alert will be sounded, because my proof are penned by liberal, alternative health believers.  Even though those people are still "human", perhaps their opinions are less so than those that only follow allopathic beliefs....

So, are these many people unwarranted in their opinions because they believe in alternative medicine?  Ah, that I believe would be another debate.

I said this before, and I'll say it once more...it can't hurt you.  All those naysayers can discuss this from now until the end of time, but you can't make a judgment unless you try it.  The proof is in the oil, so to speak.  

So the debate continues, and can be easily cured by trying this for a month.  It's a bit of oil for goodness sake...

Double dare you.  At least I'm not saying chewing worms will keep you from dying a horrible, painful death.

Molly

[A-number]

Eeuww, mouthwash.
I'm good with a toothbrush, but other than a thorough scrubbing, a rinse does nothing for me.
Unless my teeth hurt.
I will concede that mouthwash can be good for you. I think the good ones taste awful.

 you don't know what you're missing, I use Listerine Mint, that is before I brush.

Body oil should be the fresh coconut stuff from Hawaii.

pulling oil has a use for those who comes straight down from...hum,... or up from I should say ...  oh well, I let everyone let their imagination run free on how that one will end ...

[St. Jimmy]

Molly, what exactly is it that oil is supposed to do that's so special?
Which of the following are you advocating?
- removes "toxins" (please define) from the blood through a vein under the tongue
- cleans teeth (instead of brushing? as well brushing? better?)
- makes hair grow back (different colour?)
- cures cancer
- cures AIDS
- cures skin condition keratosis pilaris
- other (please specify)

Then we can talk about testing.

[NeroXIV]

So the debate continues, and can be easily cured by trying this for a month.

I thought 2 weeks?
Anyway, my friend Heather tried it for a month with no benefit. By your logic, I guess that means the debate is over. Or "cured," so to speak.

[Ocean_man]

Hi all. 22 y/o male im the UK here.

I'm going to give this a go (with the coconut oil mentioned, I really don't like the idea of tasting olive or sunflower for 20 minutes at a time).

I'm trying this only to whiten my teeth - if I do get whiter teeth, it will be a success. I've previously tried Opalescence brand carbamide peroxide gel with very positive results (obviously whiter teeth). I honestly can't see how oil would bleach the yellow colour from tooth enamel/dentine in the same way hydrogen peroxide does. The yellow reappeared in about 4 months.

I'm not prepared to ask anyone to independantly verify the results, but I am going to photoraph my teeth after each week under the same lighting conditions.

My experiment will yield objectively useless 'data' - similar to each positive endorsement/criticism of the technique on 4 pages of this thread so far.

If people are willing to spend large amounts of money to whiten their teeth in a dentist's chair, it makes sense that an inexpensive technique like 'oil pulling' is worth a try.

[St. Jimmy]

Ocean_man: will you, at the same time, continue your current oral hygiene habits (brushing teeth, moutwash, whatever)?

[Ocean_man]

I currently brush  2x daily, for 3-4 minutes at a time and floss once daily, and will continue this throughout the experiment.

I should add that i'm now going to use cold pressed, extra virgin organic sunflower oil - as it is easier and cheaper to source than the coconut stuff. Plus, the 'traditional' directions describe the use of sesame and sunflower oil.

I'm in good physical shape, drink 3 liters of water a day, don't smoke, and take regular exercise.

[mater deum]

Good idea.  Give it a try.  What harm is there in putting coconut oil in one's mouth?  Probably none.  If it works for you-great.  If not- oh well.

[St. Jimmy]

Ocean_man: make sure you take pictures of your teeth for several days (if not weeks) before and after the treatment, to see to what extent the whiteness of your teeth varies anyway.
Also, will you administer a specific amount of oil? How much? When in the day?
Make sure you don't change your eating habits at the same time.

Hope you get a result we can verify.

[NeroXIV]

What harm is there in putting coconut oil in one's mouth?  Probably none.

20 minutes a day that you can't talk or eat and can't breathe if your nose is stuffed up. And it might interfere with your TCM treatment or your macrobiotic diet. Saying "why not try it" is faulty reasoning akin to Pascal's Wager.

[JJM]

What harm is there in putting coconut oil in one's mouth?  Probably none.

20 minutes a day that you can't talk ...

Maybe that's a benefit ...

[St. Jimmy]

What harm is there in putting coconut oil in one's mouth?  Probably none.

20 minutes a day that you can't talk ...

Maybe that's a benefit ...

Dunking your computer's keyboard in coconut oil lubricates the keys so you can type more holistically.

[Major Malfunction]

I'd try it but, keyboards are cheaper than vegetable oils. Go figure.

[mater deum]

Is there a demonstrable danger to soaking one's teeth with coconut oil for 20 minutes?  I'm willing to say -probably not.  What reason for objection do you have then?  Why are you anti-oil pulling?  What is your reason for objecting to another person doing a little experiment?  Cost?  Wow, that's going to really cost him a fortune.  Dangerous?  Show us the danger.  Silly?  I might think paying money to see a movie like Borat is silly but that is not a good enough reason to object to someone else's right to see the movie.    Give you heads a shake.  Women soak their head in chemicals every 2-4 weeks to cover gray hair.  Isn't that a costly, dangerous and silly thing to do?  My, yes, it is.  Why aren't you ranting against the silly hair dye habit some people have?