Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:59 am

Certainly honey within limits is OK.
The limit is 6 teaspoons of sugar per day. Since honey is 80% sugar, that means you can have 7.5 teaspoons a day of honey as long as you do not eat any sugar.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:50 am

combined response....

Honey is not sugar - meaning if I go to a store and ask for honey, it would be poor form to berate the clerk for guiding me to the honey aisle instead of the sugar aisle. Honey is honey, and sugar is sugar - sold separately, produced separately, known as separate commodities, having different properties, etc., etc. As metabolised by the human body, of course the glucose/fructose portion of honey is converted into carbs, but somewhat differently than sugar. More here.

The water content is lowered thru dehydration - a manipulation, so that all store bought honey has a similar consistency. But a caution on store bought honey - some is fraudulently diluted with corn syrup, a practice honey producers fight against, but some packager/sellers still do. If you want to be sure - buy direct from a producer.

I never exceed my sweet intake limit - which very rarely includes sugar except as may be in processed foods or meals out - both of which are limited. As for honey, I only consume it as part of preserves or on those rare pancake treats with the grandchildren.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:20 am

no mention of HFCS ?

believe heroin would be a good treatment for morbid obesity .
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:43 am

TJ

Evading reality is not the mark of a skeptic.
Honey is 80% sugar, and all kinds of sugar contribute to bad health.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:45 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:TJ

Evading reality is not the mark of a skeptic.
Honey is 80% sugar, and all kinds of sugar contribute to bad health.


Lance, I do believe you missed reading a post. :roll:

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:50 am

TJrandom wrote:combined response....

Honey is not sugar -

Gee.... the exact nuitritional (sic) components of sugar were listed and no one including you has disagreed?

Why go with such a fraudulent distraction????

Eat what you want ....... but don't BS yourself.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:04 am

The two of must certainly go shopping for energy, vitamins, minerals, and excrements... but on what aisle? Who was it that said words matter? Sheesh!

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:36 am

There are a lot of people who have been convinced that sugar is OK if it comes as honey. They are deluding themselves. Sugar, whether the white stuff, dissolved in coca cola, or in honey, is bad for you. Even the small amount of sugar I get in my dry red wine is not good for me. My dry red wine habit delivers to me 2 teaspoons of sugar per day. There are 5 per bottle*. BUT I just love my choice of booze.

*This is double in sweet wines. 10 teaspoons per bottle.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:53 am

TJ, you seem to be labouring under an illusion. As our friend, Bobbo, correctly states, honey is sugar, at least that 80/82% of it. Scientific fact TJ. You can call it anything you like, but it is still SUGAR. Sorry.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Gord » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:01 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:...worse then/than me ..

Than, it's than, it's definitely than.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:16 am

Phoenix76 wrote:TJ, you seem to be labouring under an illusion. As our friend, Bobbo, correctly states, honey is sugar, at least that 80/82% of it. Scientific fact TJ. You can call it anything you like, but it is still SUGAR. Sorry.


Well I`ll get right on that - and ask the honey boards to stop selling honey and start selling - what? Maybe liquid sugar? No, that won`t work, since liquid sugar already exists. I wonder what the FDA would say? It seems silly to me for anyone to claim that honey is sugar, but you can call it anything you like. :roll:

@Lance... For consistency sake - please stop calling that bottle of dry red - wine. Instead lets go with sugar, water, and grape flavor - how does Grapesugarwater sound? I am sure the wine boards would approve. :lol:

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:36 am

Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:...worse then/than me ..

Than, it's than, it's definitely than.

I dunno.........its bad,

then: really bad

then there's him.

....................I didn't go back to see if that was the context.............but its all in what is meant. Like anything else, its where you put the emPHAsis. Its like calling Honey sugar, or Budweiser watered down piss.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:45 am

Lets see... `ll shortly need to rename my bees and gear.... There will be sugar hives, sugar bees, sugar comb, sugar extractor, sugar filters, ... :mrgreen:

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:54 am

TJ, you have been a member of this forum for sometime. I mean, in excess of 7000 posts, you are not a newcomer.

But mate, you seem to have a real problem here. Scientific data says honey is 82% sugar. The other 18% is made up of various things including what you call vitamins etc. And that 18% also includes water. Why is it that you cannot accept the facts.

Your rejoinder about telling the honey board to use a different name in their marketing, demonstrates a level of childish paranoia. You are not able to put a legitimate argument against scientific fact, so you choose to use pithy diatribe instead.

Mate, if you think honey is great stuff, then so be it. Actually I like to put honey on my boiled carrots. Not saying it is the healthiest choice, but we all do these things. Just be honest and front the facts.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:22 am

Do you really have to be on crack to talk about sugar vs. cocaine?
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:23 am

I could be wrong, but I get the impression that TJ is conflating the marketing definitions with the scientific definitions.

Marketing definition: Honey is a distinct product from sacks of granulated sugar.

Scientific definition: Honey is 80% sugar (as per TJ's source).

They are both true.

But the marketing definition is not helpful in any scientific discussion about the dietary consumption of sugar.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:14 am

Phoenix76 wrote:TJ, you have been a member of this forum for sometime. I mean, in excess of 7000 posts, you are not a newcomer.

But mate, you seem to have a real problem here. Scientific data says honey is 82% sugar. The other 18% is made up of various things including what you call vitamins etc. And that 18% also includes water. Why is it that you cannot accept the facts.

Your rejoinder about telling the honey board to use a different name in their marketing, demonstrates a level of childish paranoia. You are not able to put a legitimate argument against scientific fact, so you choose to use pithy diatribe instead.

Mate, if you think honey is great stuff, then so be it. Actually I like to put honey on my boiled carrots. Not saying it is the healthiest choice, but we all do these things. Just be honest and front the facts.


No need to get personal.

TJ is a respected and reasonable person here.

If there is any question whether he is making a stupid argument, I would prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt that I have merely misunderstood what he is trying to say.

In the past, TJ and I have not always agreed on various matters of opinion, but we can still have respectful conversations.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:28 am

Phoenix76 wrote:TJ, you have been a member of this forum for sometime. I mean, in excess of 7000 posts, you are not a newcomer.

But mate, you seem to have a real problem here. Scientific data says honey is 82% sugar. The other 18% is made up of various things including what you call vitamins etc. And that 18% also includes water. Why is it that you cannot accept the facts.

Your rejoinder about telling the honey board to use a different name in their marketing, demonstrates a level of childish paranoia. You are not able to put a legitimate argument against scientific fact, so you choose to use pithy diatribe instead.

Mate, if you think honey is great stuff, then so be it. Actually I like to put honey on my boiled carrots. Not saying it is the healthiest choice, but we all do these things. Just be honest and front the facts.


Nope - my only clarification is that people want to play with words. The scientific data does not say honey is 80/82% sugar - it may well say that it is equivalent to sugar in the glucose and fructose that it is comprised of and the effect on the human body, but that is not the same as saying that it is sugar. Sugar has 5 letters, starts with an `s` - and it is not childish to point out the word game that is being played when saying that `honey is sugar`. Add the appropriate qualifiers `equivalent to`, `much like`, `affects the body much the same` and I have no problem. But by definition honey is not sugar. Saying it is - is the pithy diatribe you lament.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:41 am

xouper wrote:I could be wrong, but I get the impression that TJ is conflating the marketing definitions with the scientific definitions.

Marketing definition: Honey is a distinct product from sacks of granulated sugar.

Scientific definition: Honey is 80% sugar (as per TJ's source).

They are both true.

But the marketing definition is not helpful in any scientific discussion about the dietary consumption of sugar.


Actually, it is more than a difference between scientific and marketing terminology. Nobody has offered a scientific article link, even when challenged to do so to back up a wild claim, nor have I done so. I don`t believe the two words are interchangeable, as after all - there are additional ingredients in honey that still need to be accounted for.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:22 pm

TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:I could be wrong, but I get the impression that TJ is conflating the marketing definitions with the scientific definitions.

Marketing definition: Honey is a distinct product from sacks of granulated sugar.

Scientific definition: Honey is 80% sugar (as per TJ's source).

They are both true.

But the marketing definition is not helpful in any scientific discussion about the dietary consumption of sugar.


Actually, it is more than a difference between scientific and marketing terminology. Nobody has offered a scientific article link, even when challenged to do so to back up a wild claim, nor have I done so. I don`t believe the two words are interchangeable, as after all - there are additional ingredients in honey that still need to be accounted for.


OK, I see what you're saying.

Or at least I think so.

As far as I can tell, no one is saying that the word "honey" is 100 percent interchangeable with "sugar". What we are saying is that sugar is the largest component of honey. You are correct there are some other things in honey besides sugar. I don't see that anyone here disputes that fact.

What I'm still not understanding is why you seem to be resisting the notion that the largest fraction of honey is indeed sugar.

It seems you are saying that when you ingest honey, you are not ingesting any sugar. Please tell me that isn't what you are saying?

Perhaps more clarification is needed.

Are you saying that the "sugar" in honey is not actually the same "sugar" that scientists mean when they use the word "sugar"?

Keep in mind, the word "sugar" is being used here to mean "monosaccharide", in case that wasn't clear before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosaccharide

So let me rephrase my previous question: Are you saying there are no monosaccharides in honey?

If you agree honey is mostly made up of monosaccharides, then this discussion seems to be merely a semantic quibble, but for what purpose?

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:52 pm

TJrandom wrote:Nope - my only clarification is that people want to play with words. The scientific data does not say honey is 80/82% sugar- it may well say that it is equivalent to sugar in the glucose and fructose that it is comprised of and the effect on the human body, but that is not the same as saying that it is sugar.


Here's a scientific source that discusses that point.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/mb/sites/default/files/docs/breecec/Chemical%20compostition%20of%20honey.pdf

The Chemical Composition of Honey
David W. Ball, Department of Chemistry, Cleveland State University
http://www.JCE.DivCHED.org • Vol. 84 No. 10 October 2007 • Journal of Chemical Education p.1643

See table 2 in that paper, Chemical Composition of U.S. Honeys

Component Average (%)
Water 17.2
Fructose 38.4
Glucose 30.3
Sucrose 1.3
Other disaccharides 7.3
Higher sugars 1.4
Gluconic acid 0.57
Acids (not including gluconic) 0.43
Lactones 0.14
Minerals 0.17
Nitrogen 0.04


It does not say honey contains the "equivalent" of glucose or fructose.

It says honey literally contains glucose and fructose, etc.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Austin Harper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:54 pm

xouper, I am as confused as you are.

Are we arguing over whether honey is sugar (which it clearly is not) or whether it is largely composed of sugar (which it clearly is)?
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Austin Harper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:56 pm

TJrandom wrote:Well I`ll get right on that - and ask the honey boards to stop selling honey and start selling - what? Maybe liquid sugar? No, that won`t work, since liquid sugar already exists. I wonder what the FDA would say? It seems silly to me for anyone to claim that honey is sugar, but you can call it anything you like.

For the record, you can buy honey crystals as well.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Poodle » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:14 pm

SUCROSE!!!!!

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:20 pm

Austin Harper wrote:xouper, I am as confused as you are.

Are we arguing over whether honey is sugar (which it clearly is not) or whether it is largely composed of sugar (which it clearly is)?


Bingo - or nearly so. The fructose, glucose, and trace sucrose found in honey - when absorbed by the body is converted into dietary sugars (if that is the scientific term at the metabolic level) the same as is commercial sugar (table, granulated, brown, cane, beet, corn, etc.). All of this is missed when someone says honey is sugar and is harmeful to health (and says no more).

(Now I`ll read Xouper`s link... so may need to modify this a bit.)

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:39 pm

TJrandom wrote:. . . The fructose, glucose, and trace sucrose found in honey - when absorbed by the bodyis converted into dietary sugars (if that is the scientific term at the metabolic level) the same as is commercial sugar (table, granulated, brown, cane, beet, corn, etc.). All of this is missed when someone says honey is sugar and is harmeful to health (and says no more).


The "dietary sugar" you speak of is glucose.

The glucose in honey that is absorbed into the blood does not need to be converted into anything else.

All the other kinds of sugars (and carbs) get converted to glucose, which is the sugar used by the body for energy.

In the hospital, for example, if they need to stick an "intravenous sugar solution" into you, that is usually glucose and water going directly into your blood.

When they test your blood sugar levels, they are usually checking for glucose.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:26 pm

I do not believe anyone has said honey is sugar. What we have said is that honey is mostly sugar. I add that honey is bad for your health, because it is mostly sugar. I suspect that TJ objects to this statement.

There are other things that people claim to be good for you, because in spite of being mostly something bad, they contain small amounts of good stuff. Examples are brown sugar (as opposed to white). Also brown rice as opposed to white. (brown rice contains fractionally more fiber and a few vitamins, but it still overwhelmingly harmful starch.) Honey contains small amounts of good nutrients, but is overwhelmingly made up of harmful sugar, and good dietary advice is to minimise honey consumption.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:01 pm

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Nope - my only clarification is that people want to play with words. The scientific data does not say honey is 80/82% sugar- it may well say that it is equivalent to sugar in the glucose and fructose that it is comprised of and the effect on the human body, but that is not the same as saying that it is sugar.


Here's a scientific source that discusses that point.

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/mb/sites/default/files/docs/breecec/Chemical%20compostition%20of%20honey.pdf

The Chemical Composition of Honey
David W. Ball, Department of Chemistry, Cleveland State University
http://www.JCE.DivCHED.org • Vol. 84 No. 10 October 2007 • Journal of Chemical Education p.1643

See table 2 in that paper, Chemical Composition of U.S. Honeys

Component Average (%)
Water 17.2
Fructose 38.4
Glucose 30.3
Sucrose 1.3
Other disaccharides 7.3
Higher sugars 1.4
Gluconic acid 0.57
Acids (not including gluconic) 0.43
Lactones 0.14
Minerals 0.17
Nitrogen 0.04


It does not say honey contains the "equivalent" of glucose or fructose.

It says honey literally contains glucose and fructose, etc.


Xouper, good links…

The PDF - Figure 1 shows the chemical properties of common (typical) sugars found in nectar and honey – fructose, galactose, glucose, sucrose, and raffinose – and the rest of the article focuses on how the bees convert nectar into honey, additional components, acidity, color, etc.

As you point out – the word sugar, and more frequent use of sugars in the article suggests to me, though not clarified, that these terms are being used with a slightly different meaning than the colloquial use of `sugar`. Unfortunately the article does not deal with human consumption and the biologic process of absorption and metabolism – which elsewhere (my link above) suggested was different from that of table sugar (beet, cane, corn, etc.)

Unfortunately, you second link didn`t work for me – even though I tried their search function several times (author name, article name, etc.).

It wasn`t my intent to say that honey `contains the equivalent of glucose…` (your quote of me quore above), and I certainly accept that it does include these `sugars`. Where I wrote `80/82% sugar` I should have written `80/82% sugar in the colloquial meaning and usage of sugar`. This distinction is only important when someone says honey=sugar.

Thanks for raising the bar in this discussion.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:17 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:I do not believe anyone has said honey is sugar.


Except where you said...

Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar.


And you still use the colloquial term sugar... at this point in the conversation...

What we have said is that honey is mostly sugar. I add that honey is bad for your health, because it is mostly sugar. I suspect that TJ objects to this statement.


While you may indeed suspect that I object to that statement - I do not, and believe I was crystal clear throughout that I objected to the use of sugar to describe honey - both descriptive colloquial terms.

There are other things that people claim to be good for you, because in spite of being mostly something bad, they contain small amounts of good stuff. Examples are brown sugar (as opposed to white). Also brown rice as opposed to white. (brown rice contains fractionally more fiber and a few vitamins, but it still overwhelmingly harmful starch.) Honey contains small amounts of good nutrients, but is overwhelmingly made up of harmful sugar, and good dietary advice is to minimise honey consumption.


I have no objection to minimizing honey consumption based upon the sugars (glucose, fructose... etc.) that it contains, and indeed limit my own consumption. I will say that consumption of honey is better than consumption of refined sugar.

Now as an aside - and I will not go further on this... refined beet sugar has been shown to contain pesticide residue, and is the main reason that beekeepers prefer cane sugar over beet sugar to feed our bees. Of course honey can also contain pesticide residue sourced from the nectar they gather.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:34 pm

TJ

On pesticide residues.

Everything contains pesticide residues.
A statement saying something contains pesticide residues is meaningless without further detail. The detail required is .
1. How much pesticide residues.
2. How much of that pesticide needs to be consumed to cause harm.

Without those two vital facts, you might as well be telling me that pissing downwind is better than upwind.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:43 pm

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... id=1090496

Just a follow up on my statement that everything contains pesticides. This includes organic vegetables that have never been sprayed with pesticides. That is because all plants, including garden vegetables, produce natural pesticides to protect them. If a vegetable has never been sprayed with pesticide, it is likely to contain a lot more natural pesticide.

In the example referenced above, the vegetable is zucchini. They were grown 'organically ', meaning no sprays. Thus they were not protected against insect attack. Accordingly, they were attacked heavily by insects. The zucchini plants responded to the insect attack by manufacturing lots of their natural insecticide, a chemical called cucurbitacin, which is quite toxic to people. When those zucchinis were eaten the people consuming them got very sick and ended up in hospital with cucurbitacin poisoning.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:01 pm

TJrandom wrote: . . . As you point out – the word sugar, and more frequent use of sugars in the article suggests to me, though not clarified, that these terms are being used with a slightly different meaning than the colloquial use of `sugar`. Unfortunately the article does not deal with human consumption and the biologic process of absorption and metabolism – which elsewhere (my link above) suggested was different from that of table sugar (beet, cane, corn, etc.)

. . . It wasn`t my intent to say that honey `contains the equivalent of glucose…` (your quote of me quore above), and I certainly accept that it does include these `sugars`. Where I wrote `80/82% sugar` I should have written `80/82% sugar in the colloquial meaning and usage of sugar`. This distinction is only important when someone says honey=sugar.


I'm not sure what you mean by colloquial meaning and usage of "sugar". Although at this point, perhaps it no longer matters.

Common table sugar (beet, cane, corn, etc.) is called sucrose, which is a disaccharide combination of glucose and fructose.

On the various usages of the word "sugar", see perhaps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar


TJrandom wrote: . . . Unfortunately, you second link didn`t work for me – even though I tried their search function several times (author name, article name, etc.).


Sorry about that. That was the link given in the PDF. You are right, I could not find that paper at that link. Odd.

Try this link:
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ed084p1643

There you will have to pay to download the PDF that I already linked to for free.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:12 am

Again, thanks for the links, but to be honest. I don`t see this as all that hard - when people say pass me the sugar for my coffee or tea - everybody knows exactly what is to be passed from the most common usage of that word. They don`t get the salt, pepper, or hot sauce. And nobody thinks - oh, you want some sucrose. The mental image that one obtains upon hearing the word sugar, in affluent societies at least, is a white crystal that will taste sweet when consumed.

Of course there are additional definitions - but woe be it to the randy young man who jumps his date when asked for sugar across their first dinner date. It is only on the further drill down on sweet-stuff that sugar becomes sucrose in a conversation or when analyzing its properties.

Same for honey. Saying honey is sugar, or honey is mostly sugar, is a WTF are you snorting moment.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:36 am

........and if they said "Pass me the Heroin..........."
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:12 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:no mention of HFCS ?
I am addicted to junk food and sugar . get a nasty headache if I don't get a fix .
also am morbidly obese and see people who are far worse then/than me .

believe heroin would be a good treatment for morbid obesity .

its hard to tell how addictive sugar is , because people can easily get all they want .
oh wait - just look at anyone who has obviously thrown their life away -
and exist like a fat pig just to pig out on garbage . i.e. me
The issue with HFCS is that it doesn't trigger the "I'm full" switch in the brain...so you keep eating.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:44 am

Saying "honey is sugar" is just wrong. Sugar is 50% fructose and 50% glucose, while honey is slightly less than 40% fructose and around 30% glucose, so it's already 30% "not sugar." Honey also contains minerals, like magnesium and potassium, enzymes that make it easier to digest, amino acids, etc. Sugar is...just sugar. Empty calories. Lastly, sugar is higher on the glycemic index than honey.

But sugar, in any form is not as addictive as cocaine. That's just ridiculous. Coffee, OTOH...
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:36 am

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar

Wiki says sugar is sweet, soluble carbohydrates. So, Nikki, so sorry but you are wrong. You are talking of sucrose, which is just one sugar. The word 'sugar ' is generic and refers to glucose, fructose, sucrose, and others also.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:26 am

Fructose, or fruit sugar, is a simple ketonic monosaccharide found in many plants, where it is often bonded to glucose to form the disaccharide sucrose.
Wikipedia

Glucose is a simple sugar with the molecular formula C₆H₁₂O₆. Glucose circulates in the blood of animals as blood sugar. It is made during photosynthesis from water and carbon dioxide, using energy from sunlight.
Wikipedia

Sucrose is a common, naturally occurring carbohydrate found in many plants and plant parts. Saccharose is an obsolete name for sugars in general, especially sucrose.
Wikipedia

A disaccharide is a sugar (a carbohydrate) composed of two monosaccharides. It is formed when two sugars are joined together and a molecule of water is removed. For example, milk sugar (lactose) is made from glucose and galactose whereas cane sugar (sucrose) is made from glucose and fructose.

Disaccharide - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To anyone still interested in this argument, it was never said, or meant to be said, that honey WAS sugar. The intent was that honey is about 80% sugar. Now we can argue til the bees come home, but the components of honey that are under discussion here, namely, Fructose, Glucose, Sucrose & Disaccharides, are by the above definitions, all taken from Wikipedia as noted, SUGARS. Yes sugar is a common term used for this sweet carbohydrate, even though different sugars are properly known by the above names. When you ingest any of these "sugars", your body converts them to glucose.

So any anybody's terms, Honey is comprised of about 80% sugar (common name). And to whoever made the mention of asking for the sugar at the table to put in your coffee, I do know of a number of people who would mean by that - Honey. Yes they add honey to their coffee rather than straight table sugar (Sucrose)

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:52 pm

TJrandom wrote:Again, thanks for the links, but to be honest. I don`t see this as all that hard - when people say pass me the sugar for my coffee or tea - everybody knows exactly what is to be passed from the most common usage of that word. They don`t get the salt, pepper, or hot sauce. And nobody thinks - oh, you want some sucrose. The mental image that one obtains upon hearing the word sugar, in affluent societies at least, is a white crystal that will taste sweet when consumed.


We are on the same page. Thanks for clarifying.


TJrandom wrote: . . . Same for honey. Saying honey is sugar, or honey is mostly sugar, is a WTF are you snorting moment.


Saying "honey is mostly sugar" is a scientifically accurate statement according to the journal paper I cited previously.

It is also a true statement when using the common definition of "sugar".

Just because the sugar is dissolved in water (as it is in honey) does not make it any less sugar (by any definition of the term).

You are correct, this is not all that hard. ;)

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:03 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:Saying "honey is sugar" is just wrong.


Taken pedantically and literally, you are correct.

However, I don't think anyone here meant that to be taken literally.

When one looks at the intent of the writer, it is (or should be) clear that they meant that the chemical composition of honey is predominantly sugar.

If there is more than one way to interpret what a person meant, a respectful response would be to ask for clarification, not assume the worst possible interpretation and then argue against that straw man. Some of us are here to have conversations, not confrontations.


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