Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

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Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:22 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -and-brain

An article published in The Guardian Newspaper suggests that sugar should be considered an addictive substance, and could even be on a par with abusive drugs such as cocaine. The article has sparked a furious backlash with experts describing the claims as "absurd".

In a narrative review published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine (link included in above article) the authors write that sugar could act as a gateway to alcohol and other addictive substances, adding that sugar, like cocaine and opium, is refined from plants to yield pure white crystals - a process they say "significantly adds to its addictive properties".

Reading through The Guardian's article, there certainly appears to be argument on both sides. Some are vehemently opposed whilst others agree in varying levels. Some even suggest that sugar is not the demon it has been made out to be in recent studies as a major cause of obesity and diabetes.

My personal view is that we have too much sugar in our diets, and added to all the carbs that many consume, is the root cause certainly of the obesity epidemic that has swept the western world.

As for being as addictive as cocaine and opium, well I find that hard to believe. I used to consume a lot of sugar, through soft drinks and added to coffee and tea, as well as all that added to processed foods. Once I got wise to the fact, I cut out soft drinks, stopped using sugar in my coffee, and in the main, stop eating processed foods. I've never used drugs like those suggested, and I imagine it would be very hard to break the addiction, but I just stopped using sugar and certainly never suffered withdrawal effects.

Food for thought?

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Poodle » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:52 am

I think this typifies the destruction of meaning within the English language so prevalent over the last couple of decades or so. Is sugar habit-forming? Certainly. Is it addictive? Pull the other one.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:01 am

You could substitute `food` for sugar and reach the same conclusion... ;)

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:03 am

TJrandom wrote:You could substitute `food` for sugar and reach the same conclusion... ;)


Perhaps Tj, but there is food and, there is food. Many foods, such as fruit, contain natural sugars, eg, fructose. But we westerners have this very bad habit of adding refined sugars to all our processed foods. So if your food substitute was "processed foods" you might be very close to the mark.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:55 am

"Too much sugar in our food" doesn't equate to "sugar is addictive."

Dumbass idea is dumbass.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:52 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:You could substitute `food` for sugar and reach the same conclusion... ;)


Perhaps Tj, but there is food and, there is food. Many foods, such as fruit, contain natural sugars, eg, fructose. But we westerners have this very bad habit of adding refined sugars to all our processed foods. So if your food substitute was "processed foods" you might be very close to the mark.


Yes, I agree. It is nearly impossible to eliminate sugar from a diet that includes processed food or bakery products. Sugar is normally high on the ingredient list. I was being snarky in that `food` comment.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:26 pm

So, how many celebrities are current in rehab for sugar addiction? Has the government made sugar a Level 1 drug?
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:01 pm

"sugar could act as a gateway to alcohol" - hey, they discovered brewing!

As to being like a drug, considering that sugar was often substituted for the scary monster fat, yeah, it was thought helpful in weaning from that. :-P
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Gord » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:37 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:...sugar, like cocaine and opium, is refined from plants to yield pure white crystals - a process they say "significantly adds to its addictive properties".

What? :| Which of these adds to its addictive properties: (1) refined from plants; (2) pure white; (3) crystals.

Olive oil is refined from plants. Does that significantly add to its addictive properties?

Salt is sold in pure white crystals. Does that significantly add to its addictive properties?

Coconut oil is refined from plants to yield a pure white goo. Does that significantly add to its addictive properties?

Lard is pure white. Does that significantly add to its addictive properties?

Brown sugar is refined from plants to yield crystals, but they aren't white. Does that significantly subtract from its addictive properties?
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:19 pm

With sugar - the addiction is with the growers - addicted to the government grower’s subsidy.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:33 pm

Years ago.........Eric Clapton was asked what his first drug was. He answered sugar.

I actually have a slight negative reaction to sugar. I find many items so sweet that I choose not to eat them. Many childrens breakfast cereals and bakery donuts for instance. Conta... I note I do desire a bit of sugar to take away the tartness or bitterness in coffee and various teas I make. I think I am blanced and normal. but that is only one spot on the hooman continuum. What about "other" spots???

Seems to me the attraction (not addiction) to sugar probably varies?....... You know ....... like most things. And in very rare cases and addiction addiction? Sure..... why quibble???

I saw it reported that back East somewhere (New York??? or Philly) that the sugar tax is so high that Beer is cheaper to buy.... and drink. Was that the intended effect of the tax? I just assumed it would make soda's more expensive.... not a significant BAR to purchase. Not that I'm saying "its wrong." Just surprised me.

Not only are we what we eat, but what we eat reveals who we are. Addictions...... everyone I can think of are "fun" if you can get the stuff.....and are not driven to over consume. I wish the rest of life were that way...........
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:49 pm

I guess some are emotionally "addicted" and go for the sweet stuff when down (ice cream or chocolate seem favorites and I hear sheet cake is becoming popular ;)). I never was big on sweets but do like me a nice tasty piece of melty dark chocolate. Besides that, fruit is dessert enough.

Does that count for blanched and normal?
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:57 pm

Chocolate is also called addictive by some. There its not the sugar at all, the sugar added in varying amounts to cut the bitterness of the cocoa.......until you get to milk chocolate which affectionadoes don't include as chocolate at all, rather its chocolate flavored sugar and milk.

I don't get depressed....... but when I'm bored ......... I go for beer.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:00 pm

I like a little sugar on... oops, we don`t even have sugar in the house, except as it may be in foods we purchased. It we make preserves, we use some of our honey - lemon peel, gooseberry, appricot, etc.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:03 pm

TJ--all your preserves made with honey? Doesn't that make them taste all like honey????

Some items "require" sugar...... or maybe not. I assume you like your preserves or does the original fruit come thru at all?
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:43 am

Phoenix76 wrote:sugar could act as a gateway to alcohol and other addictive substances
I tell ya, that first brownie I had when I was three years old? By the time I was five, my liver was failing. Mom had to lock up the liquor cabinet. I'd drink crème de menthe right from the bottle. That sweet, green, sugary nectar...I used to nap HARD.

Rehab was a bitch. They forced me to drink MILK!!! *sob* It was horrible! And group therapy was the worst. No one wanted to hear about kindergarten. Bunch of whiners. But I made it through.

Just say 'no' to brownies, kids. Take it from me. :P
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:51 am

:lol:



:shock: OMG, that most dangerous night of all is approaching fast. I think I'll be handing out bacon bits this Hollerwean.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:03 am

scrmbldggs wrote::lol:



:shock: OMG, that most dangerous night of all is approaching fast. I think I'll be handing out bacon bits this Hollerwean.

Lard on hardtack always goes well..........................
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:23 am

Just a comment on the idea that food is addictive.

Totally correct. When people are forced to stop consuming something they are addicted to, they suffer nasty withdrawal symptoms. People who are forced to give up food for a couple of months get really bad withdrawal. They die.

On sugar.
The current recommendation is that no one should eat more than six teaspoons a day. I would be struggling these days to consume three. I gave up sugar in tea and coffee when I was a teenager (round when Noah took up boat building.) . Never drink fizzy, and I am too miserly to buy expensive processed foods. Main source of sugar is in red wine, and mine is dry.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:25 am

food: Any substance that can be metabolized by an animal to give energy and build tissue

addictive: Being abnormally tolerant to and dependent on something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming (especially alcohol or narcotic drugs)

Maybe the key there is "habit forming." doesn't apply to food which is a biological necessity even during the womb. Dieing is not withdrawal either.

I thought Maslow's Hierarchy as simplistic as it is was universally taught?
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:36 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:On sugar.
The current recommendation is that no one should eat more than six teaspoons a day. I would be struggling these days to consume three. I gave up sugar in tea and coffee when I was a teenager (round when Noah took up boat building.) . Never drink fizzy, and I am too miserly to buy expensive processed foods. Main source of sugar is in red wine, and mine is dry.
I imagine that most people surpass that recommendation before lunch...lol.
I still take a bit of sugar in my coffee, but none in my tea (Twinings Earl Grey, hot :mrgreen: ).
No soda (except tonic in the rare G&T).
No candy (I don't count dark chocolate as candy).
Desserts only rarely, and they're nearly always the less sweet type...tart apple pie, cheese plate, walnut koláče (which is a sweet bread like challah with a spiraled walnut filling).
Fruit juice...a pint a day of no-sugar-added cranberry-raspberry juice diluted 50% with water (because it's strong).
Alcohol...I go out for beers a couple times a month and sometimes have a shot of Jameson's (a pickleback, if the bar can make one). The occasional glass of dry red wine with dinner.

I'm not really a fan of overly sweet foods. I avoid processed foods not solely because they're expensive, but also because I respect my taste buds and digestive system. It tastes terrible to me and wreaks havoc on my tummy. Too sweet, too salty, too much crap I can't pronounce.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:45 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:TJ--all your preserves made with honey? Doesn't that make them taste all like honey????

Some items "require" sugar...... or maybe not. I assume you like your preserves or does the original fruit come thru at all?



What? You don`t like honey? ;)

The amount of honey used can be adjusted downward. I like sour - so I only need enough honey to provide a bit of fluidity for the gooseberries and lemon. The apricot really doesn`t need any if it is dead on ripe.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:06 am

Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar. It amazes me that some me think it is healthy.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:19 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar.


Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Poodle » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:28 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:... addictive: Being abnormally tolerant to and dependent on something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming (especially alcohol or narcotic drugs)

Maybe the key there is "habit forming." ...

I think the key there may be "abnormally tolerant to and dependent on".
Breakfast is habit-forming.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:28 am

TJrandom wrote:
Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.


The average chemical composition of honey is 82% sugar. All those other "wonderful " things are present in trace amounts, too small to be of any significant health benefit. Unless you are a bee, eating honey is detremental to your health.

Of course, web sites generated by the honey industry will give a different perspective. It is all those $$$$$$$

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.


The average chemical composition of honey is 82% sugar. All those other "wonderful " things are present in trace amounts, too small to be of any significant health benefit. Unless you are a bee, eating honey is detremental to your health.

Of course, web sites generated by the honey industry will give a different perspective. It is all those $$$$$$$


Yes, of course there are $s in honey - but only trace elements of minerals, vitamins, antioxidants - too small to be of any benefit? If that is your claim, then please do support it with science. And while you are at it - please further show that sugar is better - or that eating honey is detrimental to human health.

For clarity - I do not support eating honey to excess, just as I do not support eating anything to excess, but in comparison to pure sugar - cane or beet, I`ll stand by honey and use it instead.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:38 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:So, how many celebrities are current in rehab for sugar addiction? Has the government made sugar a Level 1 drug?


GS, I doubt there are any celebs currently in rehab for sugar addiction. And the Government is NOT going to declare sugar a Level 1 drug. In Australia, sugar growing is big business, and the Gov is using sugar to make ethanol as an additive for petrol, all part of the climate change crap.

Actually we tried to get a tax imposed on sugar used in soft drinks, but that will never happen because it would cost the government more in other tax revenue that can be gained by taxing sugar.

I don't really believe what is being suggested by the article, I put the article up to encourage debate. Sugar in our western diets is a big problem as far as obiesity and diabetes is concerned. That is the point I am trying to make.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 am

scrmbldggs wrote:"sugar could act as a gateway to alcohol" - hey, they discovered brewing!

As to being like a drug, considering that sugar was often substituted for the scary monster fat, yeah, it was thought helpful in weaning from that. :-P


Interesting Mr Egg. At least in brewing, and I actually brew my own beer, all that sugar gets transformed into alcohol :D .
At least here in Oz, we market a low carb beer, but even the breweries admit that is a load of crap, just an advertising ploy.

No, I don't believe it is a drug. But I have a problem with your statement about "scary monster fat". See, this can be something of a misconception. I live on a low carb, high fat diet. I use fat for energy rather than carbs. Fat is a much denser food source than carbs, so it is quite hard to eat to much of it.

Our major problem in diet is that we eat too many carbs as well as eating fat. And any carbs we don't use for energy are stored in our bodies as FAT. So you can't have it both ways. Unfortunately, a lot of our population try to have it both ways, and we are seeing the inevitable results. My carb intake comes from vegetables and some fruit, that's it. My vitals are excellent, evidenced by a blood test just this last week.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:00 am

Gord Said:

What? :| Which of these adds to its addictive properties: (1) refined from plants; (2) pure white; (3) crystals.


Mate, I don't subscribe to these theories at all. I post this as information to attract constructive comment that, hopefully, I can respond to.

I have no idea why it would be suggested that "pure white crystals" are more addictive than "pure brown crystals". It makes no sense to me. Maybe they feel that this type of refining makes the end product more intense, more effective, more addictive????, I don't know.

All I believe is that sugar "MAY" be injurious to good health if used to excess - which we appear to be doing.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:09 am

TJrandom wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar.


Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.


TJ, Honey is 82% sugar. I don't know what makes up the other 18%. So the idea that because it is "natural" it must be better is not supported by the facts.

Any food that comprises 82% sugar cannot be all that healthy.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:13 am

Phoenix76 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar.


Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.


TJ, Honey is 82% sugar. I don't know what makes up the other 18%. So the idea that because it is "natural" it must be better is not supported by the facts.

Any food that comprises 82% sugar cannot be all that healthy.


My apologies Lance, I posted this response before I got to your response saying exactly the same thing. However, given that we both, independently came up with the same answer, we are probably correct.

And TJ, sugar is sugar, no matter where it comes from. The sugar in honey is sucrose. The sugar in sugar is sucrose. They are the same thing my friend. Even the natural sugar in fruit, fructose, is little different -

"Fructose, or fruit sugar, is a simple ketonic monosaccharide found in many plants, where it is often bonded to glucose to form the disaccharide sucrose. Wikipedia."
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:18 am

Phoenix76 wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:So, how many celebrities are current in rehab for sugar addiction? Has the government made sugar a Level 1 drug?


GS, I doubt there are any celebs currently in rehab for sugar addiction. And the Government is NOT going to declare sugar a Level 1 drug. In Australia, sugar growing is big business, and the Gov is using sugar to make ethanol as an additive for petrol, all part of the climate change crap.

Actually we tried to get a tax imposed on sugar used in soft drinks, but that will never happen because it would cost the government more in other tax revenue that can be gained by taxing sugar.

I don't really believe what is being suggested by the article, I put the article up to encourage debate. Sugar in our western diets is a big problem as far as obiesity and diabetes is concerned. That is the point I am trying to make.

And I'm pointing out that "As addictive as cocaine" is total BS.
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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:20 am

Phoenix76 wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar.


Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.


TJ, Honey is 82% sugar. I don't know what makes up the other 18%. So the idea that because it is "natural" it must be better is not supported by the facts.

Any food that comprises 82% sugar cannot be all that healthy.


My apologies Lance, I posted this response before I got to your response saying exactly the same thing. However, given that we both, independently came up with the same answer, we are probably correct.

And TJ, sugar is sugar, no matter where it comes from. The sugar in honey is sucrose. The sugar in sugar is sucrose. They are the same thing my friend. Even the natural sugar in fruit, fructose, is little different -

"Fructose, or fruit sugar, is a simple ketonic monosaccharide found in many plants, where it is often bonded to glucose to form the disaccharide sucrose. Wikipedia."


If you clicked on the link you would know what makes up the rest. Oh, and fructose and glucose - not sucrose. And I have said nothing about natural.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:23 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar. It amazes me that some me think it is healthy.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:40 pm

Most of the 18% in honey that is not sugar is water.

There is, as far as I know, only one way to make sugar less harmful. That is to mix it with dietary fiber. That is why fruit is less harmful than sugary liquids. Fruit contains lots of fiber. That means that it's sugar content enters the blood more slowly and the body's insulin mechanism can handle it. Drinking a coke, for example, whacks all that sugar into the blood in a single spike, and the insulin mechanism struggles.

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:45 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar.


Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.


From your link: Honey = 80% sugar + 18% water + 2% bee vomit. :shock:

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:17 pm

xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar.


Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.


From your link: Honey = 80% sugar + 18% water + 2% bee vomit. :shock:


It is all bee vomit if you choose to use that word. The 80/82% is still honey, not sugar, and the additional minerals, vitamins and antioxidants make it better than sugar. Unless of course you have something against minerals, vitamins and antioxidants.

BTW - the 18% water is a manipulated number - held rather constant for commercial sales thru honey dehydration. In its natural state, some bees leave more water (Apis Cerana for example), while uncapped honey on the comb also has more water as it hasn`t been cured and capped by the bees.

I note that the one of us who proclaims all things except honey are acceptable given a certain dose isn`t exceeded – nuclear waste, strychnine, mercury, lead, even sugar – finds honey to be dreadful stuff, dose be darned. :lol:

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby xouper » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:09 pm

TJrandom wrote:
xouper wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:Honey is dreadful stuff. Almost pure sugar.


Except that which is not sugar. but instead is minerals, vitamins, antioxidants.... etc.


From your link: Honey = 80% sugar + 18% water + 2% bee vomit. :shock:


It is all bee vomit if you choose to use that word. The 80/82% is still honey, not sugar, and the additional minerals, vitamins and antioxidants make it better than sugar. Unless of course you have something against minerals, vitamins and antioxidants.


I'm just yankin yer chain. I got nothing against honey. ;)

I'm curious though, what are you trying to say when you say the 80% is not sugar?

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Re: Is Sugar really as addictive as Cocaine?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:01 am

TJrandom wrote:BTW - the 18% water is a manipulated number - held rather constant for commercial sales thru honey dehydration. In its natural state, some bees leave more water (Apis Cerana for example), while uncapped honey on the comb also has more water as it hasn`t been cured and capped by the bees.

Manipulated sounds "evil." You are actually confirming this number right? With natural honey the number even higher.... I assume the bee vomit even a lesser percentage????

Hmmmm..... would you approve arsenic for consumption if it had 2% added minerals?

Nothing wrong with "liking honey" but its SUGAR. Best to avoid completely and go with something with some fiber in it. If health were your only concern.
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