Alzheimer`s again

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Alzheimer`s again

Postby TJrandom » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:52 pm

I found this article on how to prevent Alzheimer’s to be … oh what was that wor... phrase…. :roll:

Anyhow, probably worth the few minutes it takes to read it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/diet-exerci ... -dementia/

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:59 pm

"3 lifestyle changes that may help guard against dementia" ////

I believe coconut oil may cure Alzheimers.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby TJrandom » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:20 pm

I didn`t say it was proof... just a read worth your while. You are free to disagree... :read:

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:22 pm

With what?
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:00 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:With what?


Hanging the shrunken heads of your enemies around your home may delay the onset of Alzheimer's.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:18 pm

Both my parents had ALZ.

And so did my mother.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby TJrandom » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:53 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:With what?


Hanging the shrunken heads of your enemies around your home may delay the onset of Alzheimer's.


I`d go out on a limb and say that it is guaranteed to stop cold - any additional Alzheimer’s symptoms in those heads....

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:02 am

TJrandom wrote:I didn`t say it was proof... just a read worth your while. You are free to disagree... :read:

I'll play:

1. I didn't say you said it was proof.

2, Why would anything with may in it be worth my while? You do know what "filler" is?

3, Not exactly "free" if you think it is relevant to be stated. Is your direct implication meant or not recognized?
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:14 am

1. I know you didn`t, nor did I say or imply that you did.
2. I said probably worth a read. Lots of wiggle room for you to make up your own mind.
3. Lost on `free`. I offered no implication, either implied or stated.

and besides... my OP offered clear indication that I MAY be affected/afflicted already, and thus off the hook no matter what I write, say, or do. ;)

My story, and I`ll stick to it! :lol:

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:27 am

TJ===I'll say this knowing that you may forget it right after reading.

You OBVIOUSLY don't have a full appreciation for what "implication" means.

aka: I'm right/You're wrong................just saying.

Implication: A meaning that is not expressly stated but can be inferred /// It could be the nuance of the language, or a simple disagreement about what words expressly mean....or the full range of their contextual implications?

EG: why did you not mention I have the right to go deep sea fishing at night, rather than note what you did? THAT is the power of implication.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:55 am

Bobbo - in any event, it was you who added the implication, not me. I am not responsible for whatever you choose to read into something. You are free to ask if I intended to imply something, but not free to decide that I did so over my protest.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:04 am

Without spending a lot of time searching for references, let me say that this is not new. There have been other professional people who have come up with the same findings. For example, people who are keen on chess and play regularly into old age, have a much lower incidence of Alzheimer's.

I recall a New Scientist article which claimed that regular exercise was the best preventative measure against Alzheimer's.
It is also true that high blood pressure correlates with a higher risk of Alzheimer's.

The fourth factor not mentioned in TJs reference is genetics. If your family has a history of this disease, you are at greater risk. If so, then keep your mind active, control blood pressure, and exercise regularly. Oh, and avoid growing old.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:05 am

On a related note, I found justification for my coffee habit. Not that I needed to justify it.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:32 am

Coffee appears to be protective against Alzheimer's, type II diabetes, and heart disease. At least up to 4 standard cups per day is healthy. Beyond that, the build up of caffeine may be a bit much.

It has always puzzled me how the various health nut cases drink oodles of 'herb tea ' and still consider coffee to be bad. Coffee is just as much a herbal tea as any of the other supposedly more healthy teas.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:09 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Coffee appears to be protective against Alzheimer's, type II diabetes, and heart disease. At least up to 4 standard cups per day is healthy. Beyond that, the build up of caffeine may be a bit much.

It has always puzzled me how the various health nut cases drink oodles of 'herb tea ' and still consider coffee to be bad. Coffee is just as much a herbal tea as any of the other supposedly more healthy teas.

The study I linked to concluded that the equivalent of ten cups a day was optimal. That's a bit much even for me.

I suppose it depends on whether they're using the word "tea" because it's actually Camellia sinensis, or because they've steeped some type of dried plant matter in hot water. Frankly, health nuts generally don't do much scientific research on the herbs they ingest. "It's natural," is what you most frequently hear. Poison ivy is natural, too, but I wouldn't suggest making tea from it. Quite a few of the "natural" herbs most recommended can have deleterious health effects if consumed frequently and in the long-term.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:21 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:Coffee appears to be protective against Alzheimer's, type II diabetes, and heart disease. At least up to 4 standard cups per day is healthy. Beyond that, the build up of caffeine may be a bit much.

It has always puzzled me how the various health nut cases drink oodles of 'herb tea ' and still consider coffee to be bad. Coffee is just as much a herbal tea as any of the other supposedly more healthy teas.


I have recently been switched to decaf - so as to not supercharge my meds. I don`t like my decaf and will eventually switch back. Any recollection if decaf has the same anti-Alzheimer`s effect as the caff stuff?

EDIT... I found an article that indicates - IF you are a mouse... then decaf may work for you too....

https://www.livescience.com/36133-decaf ... efits.html

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:13 am

I have a faint recall that 4-5 years ago coffee made with green beans was a miracle drink for some purpose.

This follows my five year rule: if anything actually works...... it will be well known within five years.

..................................How come I haven't heard of "anything."

Is there an inference here?
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:20 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I have a faint recall that 4-5 years ago coffee made with green beans was a miracle drink for some purpose.

This follows my five year rule: if anything actually works...... it will be well known within five years.

..................................How come I haven't heard of "anything."

Is there an inference here?


WebMD to the rescue...

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplemen ... entid=1264

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:20 am

It is simple.

Up to four standard cups of coffee per day are healthy. More less so. But I suspect that if you drink 5 or 6, it will be fine.
Remember that what you enjoy has major health benefits simply by virtue of the pleasure it conveys.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Phoenix76 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:32 am

So what is Alzheimers, Dementia &etc? I guess in brief they all refer to the lessening function of our brain. Now the three things mentioned in the opening article as perhaps, maybe, sort of, things that might, maybe, help the fight against these quite horrible ailments. Well as a good skeptic all I can say is, "that's nice", come back to me when we have causation rather than questionable associations.

I'm throwing an article on here for your consideration. I have long had a theory that the mass medication of millions of people with statins, to lower cholesterol, might play a role in the upsurge of these ailments. We do know that cholesterol and saturated fats are essential for our mental growth, but when the means by where our bodies renew our various cells is blocked by taking statins, you have to wonder. Of course I would not expect any mainstream medical group to agree, but I thought it was worth putting forward for your amusement.

How Statin Drugs Lower Cholesterol

Every cell needs sustenance. The cell says “I’M hungry” and makes a protein called “reductase”. Reductase activates something called the mevalonate pathway. Mevalonate is cell food just as glucose is brain food. Mevalonate is utterly vital for the life of every cell in the human body.
Mevalonate is the essence of cell renewal. In all cells, mevalonate travels down the mevalonate pathway to make cholesterol and isoprenoids (five-carbon molecules). Both stimulate the cell to grow, replicate DNA and divide into two cells. This is the ‘cell cycle’. This is life.

Cell renewal is continuous throughout the body – cells lining the gut are turned over every 10 hours to 5 days; skin cells are recycled every two weeks; liver cells are replaced every 300-5—days and bone cells last a decade.

Without the cholesterol and isoprenoids made by the mevalonate pathway, none of this cell rejuvenation happens. Isoprenoids make our cells replicate and renew. Without mevalonate and without isoprenoids, cells age and die. They cannot be replaced.

CoQ10 is an isoprenoid. CoQ10 is vital for cell energy. Heme-A is an isoprenoid. Heme-A is vital for cell energy and drug metabolism. Isopentenyl adenine is an isoprenoid. Don’t worry about the names in all of this – just remember that Isopentenyl adenine is vital for DNA replication. DNA is the blueprint of every cell. Before a cell divides, it replicates its DNA and the new cell can be formed from the same blueprint. There are other vital isoprenoids – all are stopped from functioning by disruption of the mevalonate pathway.


And it is the work of statins that block the Mevalonate Pathway. That is how they lower your serum cholesterol, they simply prevent it from being made. Appears maybe that this is another example of the medical profession coming up with a new drug that actually works. Trouble is they haven't researched what else the new drug does.

Your collective thoughts will be welcome.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:52 am

Coo...oooo...oooooo...llectively, me thinks we would like a reference to start with. At least I would.... ;)

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby KevinLevites » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:32 pm

I've heard about the statin/Alzheimer's connection, which actually makes sense to me.

Cholesterol makes up something like 4% of the dry weight of the central nervous system. It seems vital to the function of the brain.

If we interfere with natural cholesterol production..
does that mean that we are interfering with the composition of the brain?

I, for one, became a strict vegetarian with no dietary cholesterol so that I can forestall taking statins until later in life.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:34 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I have a faint recall that 4-5 years ago coffee made with green beans was a miracle drink for some purpose.

It'd be a miracle if anyone drank it. :wgrin:
Image
Disclaimer: This is a joke based on a deliberate misunderstanding of the term "green beans." This poster is fully aware that the poster whom she is quoting was referring to unroasted coffee beans. :nyaah:

Also, here is an article about the authors of the paper on green coffee beans retracting their original study after being slapped around by the FTC.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:21 pm

TJrandom wrote: WebMD to the rescue...

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplemen ... entid=1264


Thanks TJ==thats it exactly. At the time....I was buying and roasting my own green beans. Think I never got around to concluding what the appropriate dose from a home made tea would be. Or I did and green coffee to be therapeutic can only be done by extract? I forget. The plan being as usual to make a mix of green and roasted beans....see what it tasted like...and get the benefit of both.

Ha, ha. I did finally buy a pound of grass fed cows' butter. Have not yet added it to my fresh brew. Supposed to be a taste sensation.

Looks like both notions have failed the Five Year Rule...... saving me a lot of bad taste.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:22 pm

LunaNik wrote: Also, here is an article about the authors of the paper on green coffee beans retracting their original study after being slapped around by the FTC.


Its shocking and sad that "Dr Oz" is still on the air.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:40 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
LunaNik wrote: Also, here is an article about the authors of the paper on green coffee beans retracting their original study after being slapped around by the FTC.


Its shocking and sad that "Dr Oz" is still on the air.

I agree. I'm amazed his license hasn't been yanked.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:37 pm

There is no statin Alzheimer connection. The population of western nations has an increasing life expectancy. With a lot more old people, there are a lot more with Alzheimer's. But....

If you establish the rate of Alzheimer's that is age adjusted, the picture changes. So instead of simply how many people with Alzheimer's, you ask what percentage of 80 year olds have it, and so on for other ages. In fact, on an age adjusted basis, the incidence of Alzheimer's is falling. This happened as more and more people went onto statins. So if you want a relationship between the two, it s a NEGATIVE correlation. I am not suggesting that statins reduce Alzheimer's. I suspect this is just coincidence.

The big thing is that Alzheimer's is a disease of age. When there are more old people, there are more Alzheimer's cases. More old people also means more people on statins. Do not let this fool you into a false positive correlation.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Phoenix76 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:41 am

Alzheimer's

A progressive disease that destroys memory and other important mental functions.

Treatment can help, but this condition can't be cured
Requires a medical diagnosis
Lab tests or imaging not required
Chronic: can last for years or be lifelong

Brain cell connections and the cells themselves degenerate and die, eventually destroying memory and other important mental functions.

Memory loss and confusion are the main symptoms.
No cure exists, but medication and management strategies may temporarily improve symptoms.

Sources: Mayo Clinic and others.


Your comments are interesting Lance, and yes it's recognised as an older persons ailment. Interesting though that the above article suggests that brain cells degenerate and die. Perhaps there is a time limit on our body replacing various cells in our bodies. If not, then why do these brain cells die without being replaced in the normal course of events.

Further Lance, your opening statement, "There is no statin Alzheimer connection", appears to be quite adamant. What I put forth was a suggestion for consideration, but you have hit the possible theory on the head without providing any suggestion as to why there is no connection.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Phoenix76 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:45 am

TJrandom wrote:Coo...oooo...oooooo...llectively, me thinks we would like a reference to start with. At least I would.... ;)


My apologies Tj, I have long since lost the reference pertaining to the article. It certainly had one to begin with but in copying things from one computer to another I have obviously chopped it off.

Howevefr Tj, my post was to try and create some discussion on a point that has stuck with me over time.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:14 am

Phoenix

I did explain why there is no statin Alzheimer connection. It is because the increased use of statins is correlated with a reduction in Alzheimer's incidence, if you adjust for age. If more statins means less Alzheimer's, then that is pretty strong evidence for no connection ?

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Phoenix76 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:29 am

Fair enough Lance. Would you say then, that the reduction in the occurrence of Alzheimer being due to the increased use of statins in older people is an association rather than a causation? Has there been studies associating statin use with the lessening of Alzheimer?

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Gord » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:19 am

Without reading more than the first line in anyone's posts because I have so many other things to be doing right now [that's a lie], I am reminded of an episode from Family Guy in which Peter mentions research into ballzheimer's disease, and then does a cutaway to a scene which I will paraphrase in the following manner:

[A tearful Peter enters from the right, carrying something cupped in his bloody hands.]

Brian: "Omigod! Peter! Where did you get those?!"
Peter: "I don't remember!!"

Now, I'm not sure if that ever really happened, but it's what I think I might remember at random times during the day, Susan.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:28 pm

My doctors say that Alzheimer's is the Dx when they can't find any other causes. It's the "-itis" of mental health.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Lance Kennedy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:27 pm

Phoenix

No one claims that statins reduce the incidence of Alzheimer's. It is not cause and effect. It is probably simply that everyone is healthier these days. People live longer, and suffer less from the traditional maladies. We have better medical care. Apart from those who are obese (far too many !) there appears to be more awareness of what it takes to stay healthy. Alzheimers is not tne only condition that is less, if you allow for greater age.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:07 am

Okay point taken Lance.

However, below is a link to the extract of a double blind study being conducted into the effects of statins on Alzheimer. Interestingly it supports the idea that statins may help with Alzheimer. But apparently only certain statins fit the bill. Statins that cross the blood-brain-barrier, will kill cells.

So if you wish, perhaps we have a win win situation. :D Medical science is fascinating. :idea:

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12474023

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:10 am

The Y-donor was dead when he was three years younger than I am now. We do have the chance to get better medicine at younger ages, but we still have to employ that resource.
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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:22 am

Interesting reference, Phoenix.

It is worth noting though, that your researchers were measuring amyloid plaque build up, and we already know that this is only part of the cause of Alzheimer's. We know this because of post mortem studies. Some people with serious Alzheimer's had almost no plaque, while other people with no Alzheimer's at all had really, really bad plaque build up.

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Re: Alzheimer`s again

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:33 am

Certainly Lance, but interesting where a bit of discussion can lead.
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