natural gas exposure

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natural gas exposure

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:24 am

wonder why it is so important for normal people to blank on everything

:burn:
Last edited by psychiatry is a scam on Sun Nov 06, 2016 6:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: natural gas and effects of long term exposure

Postby Gord » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:23 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:I wonder if that is a factor in why I am so stupid

Did it ever make you lose consciousness? If not, then there was probably no lasting effect. The damage would come from reduced oxygen (because adding natural gas [or any other gas] reduces the concentration of all the other components) and because there will likely be some carbon monoxide (which binds to red bloods cells and prevents them from efficiently carrying oxygen) along with the natural gas. You'd probably experience headaches and/or dizziness long before you'd pass out.

Plus, you're probably not stupid. That sounds like depression talking. :P All the truly stupid people I know think they're smart. If you're smart enough to think you're stupid, then you're smarter than you think you are. If you're smart enough to know you're stupid, then you're pretty freakin' smart.
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Re: natural gas and effects of long term exposure

Postby Flash » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:00 am

Gord wrote:
If you're smart enough to know you're stupid, then you're pretty freakin' smart.

Very smart, but do you know it Gord?

What if you are stupid enough to think that you are smart enought to think that you are stupid?

Yeah, and what if you are smart enough to think that you are stupid enough to think that you are smart to think that you are stupid?

Aha, and what if... boy I get a headache. Too much thinking.
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Re: natural gas and effects of long term exposure

Postby Gord » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:34 pm

Flash wrote:Gord wrote:
If you're smart enough to know you're stupid, then you're pretty freakin' smart.

Very smart, but do you know it Gord?

I don't know nuthin'.

What if you are stupid enough to think that you are smart enought to think that you are stupid?

Yes.

Yeah, and what if you are smart enough to think that you are stupid enough to think that you are smart to think that you are stupid?

Then you get ice cream.

Aha, and what if... boy I get a headache. Too much thinking.

You ate your ice cream too fast.
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Re: natural gas and effects of long term exposure

Postby Genaro » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:03 pm

Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:I wonder if that is a factor in why I am so stupid

Did it ever make you lose consciousness? If not, then there was probably no lasting effect. The damage would come from reduced oxygen (because adding natural gas [or any other gas] reduces the concentration of all the other components) and because there will likely be some carbon monoxide (which binds to red bloods cells and prevents them from efficiently carrying oxygen) along with the natural gas. You'd probably experience headaches and/or dizziness long before you'd pass out.



As soon as methane enters your bloodstream it bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood and immediately enters your organs, including the brain.

It does a lot of damage, and the damage is irreversible.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is quickly and easily dealt with by pure oxygen.

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Re: natural gas and effects of long term exposure

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:26 pm

Genaro wrote:
Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:I wonder if that is a factor in why I am so stupid

Did it ever make you lose consciousness? If not, then there was probably no lasting effect. The damage would come from reduced oxygen (because adding natural gas [or any other gas] reduces the concentration of all the other components) and because there will likely be some carbon monoxide (which binds to red bloods cells and prevents them from efficiently carrying oxygen) along with the natural gas. You'd probably experience headaches and/or dizziness long before you'd pass out.



As soon as methane enters your bloodstream it bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood and immediately enters your organs, including the brain.

It does a lot of damage, and the damage is irreversible.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is quickly and easily dealt with by pure oxygen.

Oxygen displacement, not toxicity.

Methane is nontoxic. . . . also an asphyxiant
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Re: natural gas and effects of long term exposure

Postby Gord » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:45 pm

Genaro wrote:
Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:I wonder if that is a factor in why I am so stupid

Did it ever make you lose consciousness? If not, then there was probably no lasting effect. The damage would come from reduced oxygen (because adding natural gas [or any other gas] reduces the concentration of all the other components) and because there will likely be some carbon monoxide (which binds to red bloods cells and prevents them from efficiently carrying oxygen) along with the natural gas. You'd probably experience headaches and/or dizziness long before you'd pass out.

As soon as methane enters your bloodstream it bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood and immediately enters your organs, including the brain.

Whut. :| Your information seems to be incorrect. Can you supply an online source to back it up?

As far as I know, methane is a simple asphyxiant. It displaces the oxygen in the air, reducing the amount of oxygen that you breathe in, but it doesn't bind with haemoglobin or enter your organs. Damage results from a lack of oxygen. You get better within a few hours of treatment, and usually fully recover within days.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is quickly and easily dealt with by pure oxygen.

Carbon monoxide binds to haemoglobin better than oxygen does. It does not unbind easily, and can take hours to do so (I think it has, like, a half-life of 5 hours or so?). If you breathe small amounts for a long time, it will build up in your system. The treatment is to breathe high concentrations of oxygen so that it will outcompete with the carbon monoxide for the remaining haemoglobin spots, and give time for the carbon monoxide to eventually unbind and free up the majority of the haemoglobin to carry oxygen again. But some carbon monoxide can bind to other proteins such as those in the heart muscles and lead to other problems.
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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Poodle » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:17 pm

I've been looking for a while, and I can find nothing except oxygen displacement. All references I can find which mention it define methane as non-toxic.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:40 pm

The Natural Gas Poem.

Beans, beans, the musical fruit,
the more you eat, the more you poot.
The more you poot the better you feel,
So let's have beans for every meal.

Drops mike.
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Re: natural gas and effects of long term exposure

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:45 am

Genaro is being very brave posting fake information about gassing on this forum. There are four or five long scientific threads in the Anti-holocaust denial sub-forum, as we had to review all the evidence concerning blue lips, pink lips and so on. The Germans used a variety of gasses.

(In essence victims of gas chambers died from a combination of reasons including asphyxiation. )

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Re: natural gas and effects of long term exposure

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:45 am

Genaro wrote:
Gord wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:I wonder if that is a factor in why I am so stupid

Did it ever make you lose consciousness? If not, then there was probably no lasting effect. The damage would come from reduced oxygen (because adding natural gas [or any other gas] reduces the concentration of all the other components) and because there will likely be some carbon monoxide (which binds to red bloods cells and prevents them from efficiently carrying oxygen) along with the natural gas. You'd probably experience headaches and/or dizziness long before you'd pass out.



As soon as methane enters your bloodstream it bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood and immediately enters your organs, including the brain.

It does a lot of damage, and the damage is irreversible.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is quickly and easily dealt with by pure oxygen.


what do you mean by a lot of damage ? cause im still here after years of exposure :burn:
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Poodle » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:49 am

Pias - read the other responses before reacting to rubbish. Genaro's 'bonding with haemoglobin' statement is wrong.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:02 pm

...otherwise we'll have to rename you "bias". :-P



(Does exchanging a pea for a bean produce more or less gas? :scratch:)
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:24 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:



(Does exchanging a pea for a bean produce more or less gas? :scratch:)

Nope. I spent a few years assisting a professor at Purdue, doing his library and library work. Read a lot of the articles I located to see if they were relevant to him.
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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby TJrandom » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:22 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:



(Does exchanging a pea for a bean produce more or less gas? :scratch:)

Nope. I spent a few years assisting a professor at Purdue, doing his library and library work. Read a lot of the articles I located to see if they were relevant to him.



But there are `pea-brained` individuals who only produce gas... a certain fake President, for example.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Gord » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:34 am

#notmylegume
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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Genaro » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:24 pm

My wife and I were exposed to natural gas (methane) for over a year due to 9 natural gas leaks in the house we were leasing and we were both diagnosed with methane exposure/poisoning.

We were told by the 2 separate physicians who made the same diagnosis (both of whom had contacted Georgia Poison Control and 2 separate Toxicologists) that the reason our blood tests showed no signs of methane was because it bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood and immediately enters the internal organs.

I have the two separates diagnoses from the two different Doctors at two separate hospitals. So whether or not any of you believe that means absolutely nothing to me one way or the other. But I can tell you unequivocally that I wouldn't wish the entire experience on my worst enemy.

When I was 16 I got severe carbon monoxide poisoning while operating a forklift in a warehouse. They quickly drove me to the hospital where I was immediately put on pure oxygen. Within a matter of about 5 minutes I went from feeling like I was going to die, to feeling perfectly fine.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is a walk in the park compared to methane poisoning.

Thanks to the massive SoCalGas Aliso Canyon incident last year the medical community is finally starting to initiate studies of the adverse health effects of long term methane exposure. Which of course is the last thing the natural gas industry wants to occur.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Poodle » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:49 pm

Genaro, no one is suggesting that they doubt your story, but if the doctors told you that then they were in error (it has been known for doctors to be wrong). Haemoglobin can, indeed link to substances other than pure oxygen, but only of they themselves contain oxygen. The bonding agent in haemoglobin is iron, which readily combines with oxygen. Methane - CH4 - contains no oxygen and therefore cannot bind to haemoglobin.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Genaro » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:53 pm

The first thing they did was put me on oxygen just in case CO was the cause. But the oxygen did nothing to alleviate the symptoms.

On both occasions the Doctors told me that they didn't know anything about Methane poisoning and needed to call a Toxicologist and Poison Control. Both times they came back and told me the same diagnosis and what they'd been told about Methane bonding with hemoglobin by the Toxicologist and Poison Control. Both times they also said there was "very little known about Methane poisoning", and we're mystified as to why there was so little information available.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Lance Kennedy » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:51 pm

https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/ ... @DOCNO+167

Methane is not terribly toxic. It's mechanism as a toxin is to displace oxygen, and hence lead to asphyxiation. If this happens, death is by lack of oxygen. If a person is not killed, but treated, then recovery is usually complete once the methane is exhausted from the lungs by breathing clean air or oxygen.

Of course, things can be complicated if other gases, like carbon monoxide, are also present. Methane may cause burns if you touch liquid methane. But there is no mystery about methane as a toxin.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby TJrandom » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:56 pm

Genaro wrote:The first thing they did was put me on oxygen just in case CO was the cause. But the oxygen did nothing to alleviate the symptoms.

On both occasions the Doctors told me that they didn't know anything about Methane poisoning and needed to call a Toxicologist and Poison Control. Both times they came back and told me the same diagnosis and what they'd been told about Methane bonding with hemoglobin by the Toxicologist and Poison Control. Both times they also said there was "very little known about Methane poisoning", and we're mystified as to why there was so little information available.


As has been posted above, it doesn`t appear that methane bonds to hemoglobin. There is lots of information on methane poisoning thru google, but...

No results found for "methane bonds to hemoglobin"


From what I have read, it seems that the partial pressure of methane in what you breathe simply reduces the partial pressure of oxygen in that air, resulting in hypoxia.

BTW – my spelling checker spells it haemoglobin… and dictionary.com offers both spellings.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:57 pm

Genaro wrote:My wife and I were exposed to natural gas (methane) for over a year due to 9 natural gas leaks in the house we were leasing and we were both diagnosed with methane exposure/poisoning.

We were told by the 2 separate physicians who made the same diagnosis (both of whom had contacted Georgia Poison Control and 2 separate Toxicologists) that the reason our blood tests showed no signs of methane was because it bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood and immediately enters the internal organs.

I have the two separates diagnoses from the two different Doctors at two separate hospitals. So whether or not any of you believe that means absolutely nothing to me one way or the other. But I can tell you unequivocally that I wouldn't wish the entire experience on my worst enemy.

When I was 16 I got severe carbon monoxide poisoning while operating a forklift in a warehouse. They quickly drove me to the hospital where I was immediately put on pure oxygen. Within a matter of about 5 minutes I went from feeling like I was going to die, to feeling perfectly fine.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is a walk in the park compared to methane poisoning.

Thanks to the massive SoCalGas Aliso Canyon incident last year the medical community is finally starting to initiate studies of the adverse health effects of long term methane exposure. Which of course is the last thing the natural gas industry wants to occur.


thanks - this is interesting and on topic .
and because I did not die ; I am more interested in how sick one can get .
hmmm maybe I did die ; is this hell ? :burn:
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Poodle » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:44 pm

Hay - yer reads wot yer wanna reads and shutses yer eyeses when yer dont.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:12 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Genaro wrote:My wife and I were exposed to natural gas (methane) for over a year due to 9 natural gas leaks in the house we were leasing and we were both diagnosed with methane exposure/poisoning.

We were told by the 2 separate physicians who made the same diagnosis (both of whom had contacted Georgia Poison Control and 2 separate Toxicologists) that the reason our blood tests showed no signs of methane was because it bonds with the hemoglobin in your blood and immediately enters the internal organs.

I have the two separates diagnoses from the two different Doctors at two separate hospitals. So whether or not any of you believe that means absolutely nothing to me one way or the other. But I can tell you unequivocally that I wouldn't wish the entire experience on my worst enemy.

When I was 16 I got severe carbon monoxide poisoning while operating a forklift in a warehouse. They quickly drove me to the hospital where I was immediately put on pure oxygen. Within a matter of about 5 minutes I went from feeling like I was going to die, to feeling perfectly fine.

Carbon monoxide poisoning is a walk in the park compared to methane poisoning.

Thanks to the massive SoCalGas Aliso Canyon incident last year the medical community is finally starting to initiate studies of the adverse health effects of long term methane exposure. Which of course is the last thing the natural gas industry wants to occur.


thanks - this is interesting and on topic .
and because I did not die ; I am more interested in how sick one can get .
hmmm maybe I did die ; is this hell ? :burn:

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Genaro » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:54 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote: But there is no mystery about methane as a toxin.


There is all kinds of "mystery" about methane as a toxin.

Even the 2 different Toxicologists told us that they knew "very little" because there have been no long term studies undertaken on long term methane/natural gas exposure and subsequent poisoning.

The reason for that is not a mystery at all. The natural gas industry made sure of that decades ago.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Poodle » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:03 pm

http://www.citycollegiate.com/organic6.htm

There you go - no mystery. Unless you belong to the group of people who think it's worth investigating Harry Potter books for evidence of toxicity.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:04 pm

Genaro wrote:
There is all kinds of "mystery" about methane as a toxin.



Only for those people who like to generate false conspiracy theories.

The reference I posted, from a VERY reputable source, shows it is simple. Methane is not toxic, but displaces oxygen leading to asphyxiation. End of story. That is not as interesting as the conspiracy idea, of course, but reality is often mundane.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:26 pm

Genaro wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote: But there is no mystery about methane as a toxin.


There is all kinds of "mystery" about methane as a toxin.

Even the 2 different Toxicologists told us that they knew "very little" because there have been no long term studies undertaken on long term methane/natural gas exposure and subsequent poisoning.

The reason for that is not a mystery at all. The natural gas industry made sure of that decades ago.


these people are set on crushing any idea . id say new idea , but I believe since normal people always crush new ideas ; the ideas have probably been around a long time .
just a new person that gets crushed - real shame , human nature .
I have a cartoon by jim unger - guy has a new idea , why don't we kick him out -
punch line - we have the ultimate defense - A MAJORITY
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby TJrandom » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:23 pm

Poodle wrote:http://www.citycollegiate.com/organic6.htm

There you go - no mystery. Unless you belong to the group of people who think it's worth investigating Harry Potter books for evidence of toxicity.


Methane is a colorless, odourless and non-poisonous gas.


My emphasis. `Nuff said....

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:39 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:these people are set on crushing any idea

New Hypotheses ( ideas) accepted by Science.
Theory of Evolution,
Quantum Mechanics,
Relativity and Special Relativity,
Inflation of the universe,
Higgs bosun,
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.......

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:23 pm

have you ever opened a window for fresh air ?

why ?
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:32 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:have you ever opened a window for fresh air ?

why ?
Because the air inside was stuffy or the cat's food bowl was smelling. Next question

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:48 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:have you ever opened a window for fresh air ?

why ?

Actually, I wanted to push you out it.
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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:18 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
psychiatry is a scam wrote:these people are set on crushing any idea

New Hypotheses ( ideas) accepted by Science.
Theory of Evolution,
Quantum Mechanics,
Relativity and Special Relativity,
Inflation of the universe,
Higgs bosun,
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.......



this is actually interesting , i'll have to ignore the posts that followed it .
not familiar with most of it , but guessing like the jim unger cartoon , the idea of the world being flat
was often thru the centuries met with resistance .
the stuff you mentioned probably had similar resistance .
so you have kind of given substance to the idea , that new ideas are not immediately embraced .
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:22 am

id like to mention - if anyone tried , they would find out that natural gas is not perfect methane , there are other things in it .

and if you did that , you might stumble on the fact -
that the stuff added to natural gas to create the smell will make you sick
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:29 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:id like to mention - if anyone tried , they would find out that natural gas is not perfect methane , there are other things in it .

and if you did that , you might stumble on the fact -
that the stuff added to natural gas to create the smell will make you sick

Really? "the stuff" you speak of, have any idea what it is?
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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:30 am

On new ideas.

Skeptics are not in the least opposed to new ideas. What we are opposed to are ideas for which there is no credible evidence. The other kind, ideas for which there is good evidence, is very common, and embraced by skeptics.

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psychiatry is a scam
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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:46 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:On new ideas.

Skeptics are not in the least opposed to new ideas. What we are opposed to are ideas for which there is no credible evidence. The other kind, ideas for which there is good evidence, is very common, and embraced by skeptics.


im sure its not a new idea . simple fact - I had a gas leak . after it was repaired ; I don't get as sick as I used 2
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makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Lance Kennedy » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:03 am

PIAS

I do not believe any of the skeptics here have suggested a new idea is wrong, except when it carries no credible evidence. Your suggestion that methane caused sickness is, AFAIK, pure anecdote. The evidence that is published suggests that methane is non toxic. Only in large amounts is it likely to cause measurable harm.

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Re: natural gas exposure

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:05 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Lance Kennedy wrote:On new ideas.

Skeptics are not in the least opposed to new ideas. What we are opposed to are ideas for which there is no credible evidence. The other kind, ideas for which there is good evidence, is very common, and embraced by skeptics.


im sure its not a new idea . simple fact - I had a gas leak . after it was repaired ; I don't get as sick as I used 2

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