Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

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Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:43 pm

http://www.newsweek.com/id/232781

Not much I can say--haven't read the study.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Kitiara » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:57 pm

Yeah, I just got that issue, haven't read it yet.
Do you note that among all the myriad side effects of those drugs, thoughts of suicide are listed? Isn't that kinda what it's supposed to prevent? :(
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by rrichar911 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:35 am

Yes, the drugs are effective, in that they lift depression in most patients. But that benefit is hardly more than what patients get when they, unknowingly and as part of a study, take a dummy pill—a placebo. As more and more scientists who study depression and the drugs that treat it are concluding, that suggests that antidepressants are basically expensive Tic Tacs.





They are not Tic Tacks, they are SSRI's , seratonin uptake inhibitors, as is cocaine. They may not work any better than a placebo, but they are sure going to be doing something. You don't block off receptors in the brain , the thinker cell at that, with out there being an effect.

Unless it can pass the double blind test, there is no scientific basis for claiming it to be effective.

It is for certain that what we believe effects how we feel. So if we believe that this pill is going to make us feel better, why shouldn't it? Thus the effectivness of a placebo.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Kitiara » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:21 am

Coke is only good in the momentary. That is to say, as soon as it begins to wear off it makes you feel like {!#%@}. Is that what they are dispensing to those poor cookoos? :(
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by JJM » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:28 pm

Here is some commentary and discussion http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3722

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Nabarun Ghoshal » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:42 am

Such news probably help newspapers to increase the attention of their readers, otherwise they should have abstained from publishing such rubbish. The reporters should be responsible enough to know a little more details of the drugs acting on the Central Nervous System before creating confusion and panic among people by publishing such utter nonsenses.

I am not going into the details of the mechanism of action of Tricyclic Antidepressants or that of the SSRI's as they can be found in any good text book of Pharmacology. I can share my experiences as a doctor practising in a remote area of India. I have seen a number of lives and families having been saved with the help of these wonderful drugs.

My compounder's wife had been suffering from an extreme form of OCD, washing every household material she used. The husband was a helpless witness, almost going into a state of depression himself. Fortunately, once the wife caught cold. I asked my compounder to bring her to me. I told her that she was having a bad type of cold and would need a few weeks of treatment. With the husband's consent, I began to give her doses of S-Citalopram and Clomipramine. The result was just dramatic. Within two weeks, her symptoms began to diminish and after a few months, she was not dipping her daughters in the river anymore after they returned from school in the evening. Now my compounder is a happy man, stating me in private that their sexual relationship has greatly improved even though the drugs have been withdrawn more than two years ago.

Another man came to me with his daughter in a state of hysteria. After taking proper history, I realised that the girl had no serious problem. Her husband was having Premature Ejaculation. I called for her husband and told him that to cure his wife, he would also need to take some medicine along with her. I gave Fluoxetine to the husband and Vitamins to the wife. After 15 days, they returned to me as a happy couple. Then I explained the whole thing to the husband and asked him to continue the medicine for a few moths before I asked him to stop it. After having their first child, the husband saw me with a big packet of "Chanachur"-- a kind of popular mixed snacks in India, which he had made in his factory and wished for God's blessings for me.

I can cite a number of more such emotional moments I have experienced by the use of these drugs, but that will only take the space of this valuable site. It will be better to go through the experience of doctors and researchers than to rely on the newspaper reports when the efficacy of medicines is in question.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:06 am

I've yet to see a brain chemical that can solve a person's problems.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Nabarun Ghoshal » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:32 am

landrew wrote:I've yet to see a brain chemical that can solve a person's problems.


I wish you won't need those chemicals for yourself or any of your relatives in future but if you happen to need them unfortunately, then only you will realise how the labour of the inventors of these chemicals has paid off by wiping tears of so many men and women all over the world.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:26 am

Nabarun Ghoshal wrote:
landrew wrote:I've yet to see a brain chemical that can solve a person's problems.


I wish you won't need those chemicals for yourself or any of your relatives in future but if you happen to need them unfortunately, then only you will realise how the labour of the inventors of these chemicals has paid off by wiping tears of so many men and women all over the world.

I don't doubt that they can make someone feel better or treat their symptoms, but I don't see any cures for most problems.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by rrichar911 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:29 am

I would think it would be educational to compare the effects of cocaine and other SSRI's on the brain. i.e. what they do.

Once you go through that if you are not scared out of your mind, then go and look at the behavior of people who do cocaine.

If then you are still not disturbed, then go check out how what % of kids who picked up guns and went to school to kill their class mates were taking an SSRI of one form or another. Hint, it is 100%.

Then go read the warning labels on the pill bottles. i.e. may increase desire to commit suicide or increse other violent tendencies.

If that ain't enough , check out the chemical processes involved in what is called on the street , burn out from SSRI's

Happy pill popping. They will solve all your problems. Not.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by fromthehills » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:12 am

It looks to me that cocaine is a stimulant, which is much different than an uptake inhibitor. A stimulant will take the place of the brains natural ability to produce things, such as serotonin, over time. An uptake inhibitor stops the natural recycling process of serotonin in the synapsis, therefore allowing the the brain to benifit from prolonged "feel good" hormones.

I don't know if they work better than placebo, but I have read that they don't work better than excercise, in treating depression, which, of course, produces it's own " feel good" chemical reactions.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by vanderpoel » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:39 am

landrew wrote:I've yet to see a brain chemical that can solve a person's problems.

If you have a problem feeling tired and lethargic, cocaine will solve that.
If you have a problem sleeping, meth will solve that.
Sleeping will be the last of your problems.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:03 pm

fromthehills wrote:It looks to me that cocaine is a stimulant, which is much different than an uptake inhibitor. A stimulant will take the place of the brains natural ability to produce things, such as serotonin, over time. An uptake inhibitor stops the natural recycling process of serotonin in the synapsis, therefore allowing the the brain to benifit from prolonged "feel good" hormones.

I don't know if they work better than placebo, but I have read that they don't work better than excercise, in treating depression, which, of course, produces it's own " feel good" chemical reactions.

Taking drugs to "solve" mental problems is like rewiring your car's instrument panel to tell you everything is OK with the engine.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:19 pm

landrew wrote:Taking drugs to "solve" mental problems is like rewiring your car's instrument panel to tell you everything is OK with the engine.

That is a misstatement of the reasons for treatment of mental illness and depression.

Manufacturers of antidepressants and other drugs intended to treat depression and mental illness do not claim that their products will cure those conditions or that they will solve people's problems. Their products have shown, through clinical testing and regulatory review, that they can be effective in treating depression and mental illness. It has long been known that a combination of drug therapy and psychological counseling is more effective than either therapy alone. Drug therapy is not always necessary, but in many cases it allows a person who otherwise would not benefit from psychological counseling to actively participate. In many cases drug therapy allows a person to have a life that would otherwise be severely limited by debilitating mental illness, and even then, life can be a struggle.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:24 pm

rrichar911 wrote:I would think it would be educational to compare the effects of cocaine and other SSRI's on the brain. i.e. what they do.

Once you go through that if you are not scared out of your mind, then go and look at the behavior of people who do cocaine.

If then you are still not disturbed, then go check out how what % of kids who picked up guns and went to school to kill their class mates were taking an SSRI of one form or another. Hint, it is 100%.

If you have done that research, please show us where we can see it for ourselves.
Then go read the warning labels on the pill bottles. i.e. may increase desire to commit suicide or increse other violent tendencies.

If that ain't enough , check out the chemical processes involved in what is called on the street , burn out from SSRI's

Happy pill popping. They will solve all your problems. Not.

Again, give us a reference.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:27 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
landrew wrote:Taking drugs to "solve" mental problems is like rewiring your car's instrument panel to tell you everything is OK with the engine.

That is a misstatement of the reasons for treatment of mental illness and depression.

Manufacturers of antidepressants and other drugs intended to treat depression and mental illness do not claim that their products will cure those conditions or that they will solve people's problems. Their products have shown, through clinical testing and regulatory review, that they can be effective in treating depression and mental illness. It has long been known that a combination of drug therapy and psychological counseling is more effective than either therapy alone. Drug therapy is not always necessary, but in many cases it allows a person who otherwise would not benefit from psychological counseling to actively participate. In many cases drug therapy allows a person to have a life that would otherwise be severely limited by debilitating mental illness.

Yeah, I'll admit it was a general statement and exceptions exist, but I'll go on record as saying that psychotropic drugs are over-prescribed and misused to epidemic levels nowadays. I also stand by my analogy to apply to that portion where such drugs are misused for unrealistic expectations of "curing" that which can't be cured with chemicals.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Pyrrho » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:53 pm

landrew wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
landrew wrote:Taking drugs to "solve" mental problems is like rewiring your car's instrument panel to tell you everything is OK with the engine.

That is a misstatement of the reasons for treatment of mental illness and depression.

Manufacturers of antidepressants and other drugs intended to treat depression and mental illness do not claim that their products will cure those conditions or that they will solve people's problems. Their products have shown, through clinical testing and regulatory review, that they can be effective in treating depression and mental illness. It has long been known that a combination of drug therapy and psychological counseling is more effective than either therapy alone. Drug therapy is not always necessary, but in many cases it allows a person who otherwise would not benefit from psychological counseling to actively participate. In many cases drug therapy allows a person to have a life that would otherwise be severely limited by debilitating mental illness.

Yeah, I'll admit it was a general statement and exceptions exist, but I'll go on record as saying that psychotropic drugs are over-prescribed and misused to epidemic levels nowadays.

That's the common belief. Data supporting that belief--or the reverse--is rather hard to find.

Even so, it has nothing to do with efficacy.
I also stand by my analogy to apply to that portion where such drugs are misused for unrealistic expectations of "curing" that which can't be cured with chemicals.

Again, neither manufacturers nor doctors claim that these therapies will cure anything. They are typically used as part of a strict regimen that includes psychological counseling. Recovery often takes years, and treatment can last a lifetime.

Of course, exceptions exist--and those exceptions are the violent actors whose behavioral problems most likely existed prior to any drug therapy they may or may not have received.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:00 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
landrew wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
landrew wrote:Taking drugs to "solve" mental problems is like rewiring your car's instrument panel to tell you everything is OK with the engine.

That is a misstatement of the reasons for treatment of mental illness and depression.

Manufacturers of antidepressants and other drugs intended to treat depression and mental illness do not claim that their products will cure those conditions or that they will solve people's problems. Their products have shown, through clinical testing and regulatory review, that they can be effective in treating depression and mental illness. It has long been known that a combination of drug therapy and psychological counseling is more effective than either therapy alone. Drug therapy is not always necessary, but in many cases it allows a person who otherwise would not benefit from psychological counseling to actively participate. In many cases drug therapy allows a person to have a life that would otherwise be severely limited by debilitating mental illness.

Yeah, I'll admit it was a general statement and exceptions exist, but I'll go on record as saying that psychotropic drugs are over-prescribed and misused to epidemic levels nowadays.

That's the common belief. Data supporting that belief--or the reverse--is rather hard to find.

Even so, it has nothing to do with efficacy.
I also stand by my analogy to apply to that portion where such drugs are misused for unrealistic expectations of "curing" that which can't be cured with chemicals.

Again, neither manufacturers nor doctors claim that these therapies with cure anything. They are typically used as part of a strict regimen that includes psychological counseling. Of course, exceptions exist--and those exceptions are the violent actors whose behavioral problems most likely existed prior to any drug therapy they may or may not have received.

Well, with all due respect, it's more than evident to me that such drugs are overused, and with unrealistic expectations by many people. I'll stand by that, whether you dismiss everything else I've said or not.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Nabarun Ghoshal » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:19 pm

landrew wrote:Well, with all due respect, it's more than evident to me that such drugs are overused, and with unrealistic expectations by many people. I'll stand by that, whether you dismiss everything else I've said or not.


I agree with you at this point but isn't that the same with other medicines as well? Morphine produced to treat patients in severe pain is used by the drug addicts. Antibiotics are prescribed all over the world in many viral infections where they have no role at all. Even Aspirin is prescribed by doctors in persons above 40 years just with the belief that it would keep heart attacks at bay. Same is true for antidepressants also. I have seen doctors using tricyclic antidepressants as a treatment of simple insomnia.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by JJM » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:18 pm

landrew wrote:Well, with all due respect, it's more than evident to me that such drugs are overused, and with unrealistic expectations by many people. I'll stand by that, whether you dismiss everything else I've said or not.
You see, landrew, you can argue despite your ignorance on a topic.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by fromthehills » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:34 pm

landrew wrote:
fromthehills wrote:It looks to me that cocaine is a stimulant, which is much different than an uptake inhibitor. A stimulant will take the place of the brains natural ability to produce things, such as serotonin, over time. An uptake inhibitor stops the natural recycling process of serotonin in the synapse, therefore allowing the the brain to benefit from prolonged "feel good" hormones.

I don't know if they work better than placebo, but I have read that they don't work better than exercise, in treating depression, which, of course, produces it's own " feel good" chemical reactions.

Taking drugs to "solve" mental problems is like rewiring your car's instrument panel to tell you everything is OK with the engine.


I'm not advocating taking drugs to solve problems that can be solved by diet and exercise, but if it's a matter beyond control, which some folks do have severe chemical imbalances, science has done a good thing by creating a drug that treats the problem.

I just read Pyrro's response, and he says it better than I do.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:49 am

fromthehills wrote:
landrew wrote:
fromthehills wrote:It looks to me that cocaine is a stimulant, which is much different than an uptake inhibitor. A stimulant will take the place of the brains natural ability to produce things, such as serotonin, over time. An uptake inhibitor stops the natural recycling process of serotonin in the synapse, therefore allowing the the brain to benefit from prolonged "feel good" hormones.

I don't know if they work better than placebo, but I have read that they don't work better than exercise, in treating depression, which, of course, produces it's own " feel good" chemical reactions.

Taking drugs to "solve" mental problems is like rewiring your car's instrument panel to tell you everything is OK with the engine.


I'm not advocating taking drugs to solve problems that can be solved by diet and exercise, but if it's a matter beyond control, which some folks do have severe chemical imbalances, science has done a good thing by creating a drug that treats the problem.

I just read Pyrro's response, and he says it better than I do.

The trouble is with the assumption that the drugs are actually helping, when in some cases they may be only delaying the effects or even making it worse.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by JJM » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:57 am

landrew wrote:The trouble is with the assumption that the drugs are actually helping, when in some cases they may be only delaying the effects or even making it worse.
I am sure you have evidence for this- please provide it.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by JJM » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:12 am

A-number wrote:I am not much for anti depressant to start with, but I read that among those that take them, the ones that abruptly stop taking them because of the psychological down fall that causes, they end up committing suicide. And that is pretty screwed up. So in this sense they do have an effect, it's just that it is really dangerous one.
I have read that chiropractors can cure 95% of diseases by manipulating the back. I have also read that the Universe was created in six days, 6,000 years ago. I have also read that the Earth is flat, and it will end in 2012.

On many topics it is easier to get mis-information than the truth. There are thousands of books on homeopathy, compared to fewer than a dozen (in print) that debunk it. It takes a LOT of study to become expert in a technical field. The smart thing is to follow the experts- the race doesn't always go to the swiftest; but that is the way to bet.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:39 pm

JJM wrote:
landrew wrote:The trouble is with the assumption that the drugs are actually helping, when in some cases they may be only delaying the effects or even making it worse.
I am sure you have evidence for this- please provide it.

From page 16 of the Armchair Skeptic's Handbook: Don't worry about refuting someone's opinion with facts or logic, or providing an opinion of your own; just say "prove it" to anything they say.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Pyrrho » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:22 pm

When in doubt, refer to the data.

http://www.rxlist.com/

I recommend reading the "Professional" tab. Plenty of background information on your favorite drug therapy.

Cherrypickers, ascend your ladders!
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by JJM » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:40 pm

landrew wrote:... Don't worry about refuting someone's opinion with facts or logic, or providing an opinion of your own; just say "prove it" to anything they say. ...
landy, the rule has always been that the person making an assertion has the burden of proof. I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

In this case, I didn't expect any support for your assertion- you never supply any data. Furthermore, since you refuse to study the basics of science, let me explain that your opinion is only as good as the data supporting it. I don't know why you think your opinions and beliefs are valuable (perhaps it is that New Age notion that everyone is above average). Even when you are right about something, it seems to be a random event. For example, (like you) I do not support Intelligent Design Creationism as science. However, unlike you, I know it is not genetics that keeps it out of that realm.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:21 pm

JJM wrote:
landrew wrote:... Don't worry about refuting someone's opinion with facts or logic, or providing an opinion of your own; just say "prove it" to anything they say. ...
landy, the rule has always been that the person making an assertion has the burden of proof. I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

In this case, I didn't expect any support for your assertion- you never supply any data. Furthermore, since you refuse to study the basics of science, let me explain that your opinion is only as good as the data supporting it. I don't know why you think your opinions and beliefs are valuable (perhaps it is that New Age notion that everyone is above average). Even when you are right about something, it seems to be a random event. For example, (like you) I do not support Intelligent Design Creationism as science. However, unlike you, I know it is not genetics that keeps it out of that realm.

I bet you thought you'd never had to carry the burden of proof for a day in your life.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by JJM » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:38 pm

landrew wrote:I bet you thought you'd never had to carry the burden of proof for a day in your life.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Huh?

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:54 pm

JJM wrote:
landrew wrote:I bet you thought you'd never had to carry the burden of proof for a day in your life.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Huh?

Exactly. Your style of debate is never to engage the issue yourself, or examine the rationale or evidence. You simply disqualify everything by claiming the other person hasn't provided sufficient evidence. In short, your answer to everything is "prove it" like the mouse character in that commercial there.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by BluesGuy » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:35 am

Nabarun Ghoshal wrote:I told her that she was having a bad type of cold and would need a few weeks of treatment. With the husband's consent, I began to give her doses of S-Citalopram and Clomipramine. The result was just dramatic. Within two weeks, her symptoms began to diminish and after a few months, she was not dipping her daughters in the river anymore after they returned from school in the evening.


Am I the only person who has a problem with the ethics of administering these drugs as a "cold remedy?" Is informed consent a foreign concept in India?
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by rrichar911 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:54 am

If you block seratonin from returning to the "thinker" cell from whence it came, and in effect force it to return to the emotion cell, this will obviously feel good. No big mystery there.

But some thoughts send messages to the emotion cells that do not feel good. They do it for a reason. Just as your body feels pain when you hit your thumb with a hammer, mother nature designed a system under which some thoughts code seratonin to produce good feelings while other thoughts produce bad feelings.

when this happens, you got a problem to solve. Either a real problem or one made up in your head because your thinking wrong.

Artificially producing good feelings does not solve problems of either type. It can in fact allow you to feel like you solved problems when you didn't. SSRI's artificially prevent the brain from working the way it was designed to work. i.e. the thinker cells getting feed back from the emotion cells. Communication becomes one directional.

Why is it a good thing to shove real problem solving under the table and walk around feeling like you got something solved just because you popped a pill?

Burn out happens because when seratonin is prevented from returning to the thinker cell it eventually dies. The brain does not produce any more of it. Once this happens no amount of SSRI's in the form of cocaine or Prozak will have any effect. You will not be able to take enough cocaine to get feeling good again. Your burnt out, and now no matter whether you decide to solve problems or not, your screwed.
Last edited by rrichar911 on Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:57 am

BluesGuy wrote:Am I the only person who has a problem with the ethics of administering these drugs as a "cold remedy?" Is informed consent a foreign concept in India?

You're not the only one who knows the difference between a remedy and just treating symptoms. The difference however, seems to be becoming more and more obscured, and with regard to depression, is seems to be almost nonexistent anymore in the psychiatry field.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by rrichar911 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:11 am

I studied all of this because I had a friend who's daughter got hooked on cocaine. He had to deny her access to the house because she would steel any and everything she could get her hand on. She lied , cheated, and became void of any thing that could pass as just or moral.

The phychological addictive factor is that when you take the stuff you treat other people like they were garbage to be used and stomped on, and when you come down you feel horrible for having done it, thus you seek the only thing that makes you feel good again, more drugs.

The cycle repeats.

that is the direct SSRI function because it blocks communication between the thinker and emotion cells. Thus any drug that is an SSRI is going to do the same thing to some extent.
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Kitiara » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:47 am

Creepy.
God bless anyone that resorts to such measures...
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by JJM » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:20 am

landrew wrote:You're not the only one who knows the difference between a remedy and just treating symptoms. The difference however, seems to be becoming more and more obscured, and with regard to depression, is seems to be almost nonexistent anymore in the psychiatry field.
I don't suppose you have data to back this up. ... How foolish of me- you never do.

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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:51 pm

Scientific explanations of the possible mechanism of action of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors:

http://www.nmhct.nhs.uk/Pharmacy/moa-ssri.htm

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ssris/MH00066

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10333979
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:55 pm

rrichar911 wrote:I studied all of this because I had a friend who's daughter got hooked on cocaine. He had to deny her access to the house because she would steel any and everything she could get her hand on. She lied , cheated, and became void of any thing that could pass as just or moral.

The phychological addictive factor is that when you take the stuff you treat other people like they were garbage to be used and stomped on, and when you come down you feel horrible for having done it, thus you seek the only thing that makes you feel good again, more drugs.

The cycle repeats.

that is the direct SSRI function because it blocks communication between the thinker and emotion cells. Thus any drug that is an SSRI is going to do the same thing to some extent.

Your analogy to cocaine and drug addict behavior is absolutely incorrect. SSRIs are not cocaine and they are not narcotics.

People with severe clinical depression and/or other mental illness may have to change medication regimens several times during the course of their illness.

Please consider the possibility that severe mental illness and/or depression may exist in a patient prior to administration of drug therapy. Does such a patient have the right to seek appropriate drug therapy for their condition?
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by Pyrrho » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:02 pm

rrichar911 wrote:If you block seratonin from returning to the "thinker" cell from whence it came, and in effect force it to return to the emotion cell, this will obviously feel good. No big mystery there.

But some thoughts send messages to the emotion cells that do not feel good. They do it for a reason. Just as your body feels pain when you hit your thumb with a hammer, mother nature designed a system under which some thoughts code seratonin to produce good feelings while other thoughts produce bad feelings.

when this happens, you got a problem to solve. Either a real problem or one made up in your head because your thinking wrong.

Artificially producing good feelings does not solve problems of either type. It can in fact allow you to feel like you solved problems when you didn't. SSRI's artificially prevent the brain from working the way it was designed to work. i.e. the thinker cells getting feed back from the emotion cells. Communication becomes one directional.

That is a gross misstatement of the possible mechanism of action of SSRIs, as well as a gross misrepresenation of the central nervous system.
Why is it a good thing to shove real problem solving under the table and walk around feeling like you got something solved just because you popped a pill?

Burn out happens because when seratonin is prevented from returning to the thinker cell it eventually dies. The brain does not produce any more of it. Once this happens no amount of SSRI's in the form of cocaine or Prozak will have any effect. You will not be able to take enough cocaine to get feeling good again. Your burnt out, and now no matter whether you decide to solve problems or not, your screwed.

Cocaine is not an SSRI. Cocaine is believed to act on dopamine receptors and to enhance the effect of dopamine in certain areas of the brain:

http://www.cnsforum.com/imagebank/item/ ... fault.aspx
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Re: Antidepressant no better than placebo, according to study

Post by landrew » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:18 pm

JJM wrote:
landrew wrote:You're not the only one who knows the difference between a remedy and just treating symptoms. The difference however, seems to be becoming more and more obscured, and with regard to depression, is seems to be almost nonexistent anymore in the psychiatry field.
I don't suppose you have data to back this up. ... How foolish of me- you never do.

LOL !
You never give up. If I said, "It's a beautiful day, not a cloud in the sky."
I'm sure you'd say, "where's your data to back that up?"
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.