Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Methods and means of supporting critical thinking in education
RonPrice
Poster
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:29 pm
Custom Title: Mr Ron Price
Location: George Town Tasmania Australia
Contact:

Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby RonPrice » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:53 am

BARBIE DOLL

The popular doll, Barbie, artifact of female representation and identity, of depiction and posturing of women, has evoked a steady stream of critical attention since her debut in 1959. I have not been that conscious of this critical attention involved as I have been since 1959 with issues relating to my education, my career, my family and my religion. If millions of pre-pubescent girls have lived imaginatively and vicariously through Barbie this has not really concerned me. The world is burgeoning with issues and this was one far removed from my flight path. In 1959 I joined the Baha’i Faith and the agenda that has concerned me has only on rare occasions and only very peripherally involved the barbie doll. –Ron Price with thanks to “The Wonder of Barbie: Popular Culture and the Making of Female Identity,” Essays in Philosophy: A Biannual Journal, Vol.4, No.1, January 2003.

The essence of feminine beauty
is vigilance and artificiality.
Men may be expected to enhance
their appearance, but women are
supposed to transform themselves.

Who is the fairest of them all.
The mirror replies, “Before I
answer that, may I suggest an
alpha-hydroxy lotion?…this
Revlon spray?…this lipstick?

Where have you been Barbie?
You popped into my life when
I visited those kids in Whyalla
and when I went shopping more
than usual between marriages.

Images of maleness were many
and varied: my dad, grandfather,
uncle, those westerns on TV back
in the fifties and all those old chaps
in Baha’i history--unquestionably--

subtlely, insinuating themselves into
my imaginative faculty on cold
Canadian evenings; Jim Gibb
reading poems, John Dixon’s
quiet kindness, Douglas Martin’s
clever use of words, so many
ordinarily ordinary men, artifacts
of identity, of depiction and posturing:
nothing like Dick, his relentless jollity,
his banklike security and his always
impeccable decorator and merry picnic.

Ron Price
2 October 2006
Last edited by RonPrice on Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
married for 48 years, a teacher for 32, a student for 18, a writer and editor for 16, and a Baha'i for 56(in 2015).

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26374
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Sketpcial About the Barbie Doll

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:14 am

RonPrice wrote:BARBIE DOLL : The popular doll, Barbie, artifact of female representation and identity, of depiction and posturing of women, has evoked a steady stream of critical attention since her debut in 1959.


If you walk past a sandpit, there will be boys talking on behalf of their G.I. Joe dolls and girls talking on behalf of their Barbie dolls. I haven't got a theory yet, but I think it's something to do with pre-pubescent children practising conversation & emotions, by imitating adults, using toys. The talking with dolls may be something "stuck in our heads" and thus we can't help but like Barbie.

Which brings me to another discussion on this forum. We assume these stone carvings, which range from 35,000 to 22,000 years ago were owned by adults. I don't think we can say that with any certainty. It is my view that humans were exactly the same back then as now. Perhaps "daddy-cavemen" always carved his boys and girls dolls and we simply don't see the wooden or woven figurines.
venus-figurines-europe-paleolithic.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

RonPrice
Poster
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:29 pm
Custom Title: Mr Ron Price
Location: George Town Tasmania Australia
Contact:

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby RonPrice » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:54 am

Thanks, Matthew, for your interesting response. What a refreshing idea you presented!-Ron
Last edited by RonPrice on Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
married for 48 years, a teacher for 32, a student for 18, a writer and editor for 16, and a Baha'i for 56(in 2015).

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19481
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Sketpcial About the Barbie Doll

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:21 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Perhaps "daddy-cavemen" always carved his boys and girls dolls ....

Why "daddy"?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7371
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby TJrandom » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:05 pm

Sex Ed props?

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26374
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Sketpcial About the Barbie Doll

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:05 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Perhaps "daddy-cavemen" always carved his boys and girls dolls ....

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Why "daddy"?
Good point. Although I know that there was sexual division of labour, I don't know how it was actually divided up. Mommy cave-woman may have made the carvings.

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8122
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby Poodle » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:14 am

I reserve judgment until I've seen freebill's theory.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26374
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:15 am

TJrandom wrote:Sex Ed props?
I am guessing that because humans didn't wear sexual differentiating clothes, that "tits and fanny" were the only obvious characteristics of detailing a man or a woman, 30,000 years ago.

However, did you notice that the Venus of Willendorf has dreadlocks?. That is the most horrible and crude aspect about the evolution of western European culture. Our ancient ancestors looked like modern German tourists, who in a fit of insanity, decide to get dreadlocks in Bali. A crime against good taste.
dreads.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7371
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:40 am

I was amused by the Bali dreadlocks scam(?), but not as amused as I was at the beach massages - which invariably rendered the girls topless. A sight to see… if only because they generally weren`t quite expecting it.

RonPrice
Poster
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:29 pm
Custom Title: Mr Ron Price
Location: George Town Tasmania Australia
Contact:

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby RonPrice » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:32 am

My post, just 24 hours ago, about the Barbie Doll has certainly generated an interesting thread of content. I'll add the following post with content somewhat tangential to the subject while I'm here, FYI.-Ron
----------------------------------
WHAT IS PLAY?

"Activity that proceeds within certain limits of time and space, in a visible order, according to rules freely accepted, and outside the sphere of necessity or material utility. The play mood is one of rapture and enthusiasm, and is sacred or festive in accordance with the occasion. A feeling of exaltation and tension accompanies the action, mirth and relaxation follow."(1) This is the definition of play by the Dutch historian Johan Huizinga(1872-1945) in his book (1) Homo Ludens: A Study of the Play Element in Culture, Boston: Beacon Press, 1950(1944), p. 132.

I have had, according to this definition, a lifetime of play beginning as far back as I can remember, as far back as my first memory, with those Meccano toys in the snow in a late winter day in Ontario’s Golden Horseshoe. The year was 1948, the year of the formation of the NSA of the Baha’is of Canada which I have been associated with now for more than 60 years.-Ron Price, Pioneering Over Five Epochs, 17 June 2012.

You wanted to write, Johan;
indeed, you had to write, as
you said. Writing is playing,
is creative….it creates order
between the poles of frivolity
and ecstasy…..It functions as
a play-ground for the mind in
a world of its own and creates,
civilization which arises in and
as play…do I play too much by
writing all this prose and poetry?1

(1) Huizinga sees the essence of play as it is found in the ancient Greeks. “Plato understood creativity as play,” he asserts. Aristotle’s had another, simpler and more popular view. According to Aristotle music had a very definite function technically, psychologically and above all morally. It belonged to the mimetic arts, and the effect of this mimesis was, he stated, to arouse ethical feelings of a positive or negative kind.
(1) Huizinga’s most famous work was The Autumn of the Middle Ages, or The Waning of the Middle Ages published in 1919. In this work he reinterpreted the later Middle Ages as a period of pessimism and decadence rather than rebirth.

Ron Price
17/6/’12 to 11/7/'15.
married for 48 years, a teacher for 32, a student for 18, a writer and editor for 16, and a Baha'i for 56(in 2015).

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7371
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby TJrandom » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:41 am

I watch my grandsons at play, and sometimes feel compelled to `play` the umpire – sometimes separating, sometimes adjudicating, sometimes offering an alternative, and sometimes just giving a hug. Frequently invited to join in the construction, beep beeping, soaring, etc., and invariably almost immediately ignored once I do so. Hard to figure that, but simple observation is as enjoyable as any play I can remember.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19481
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Sketpcial About the Barbie Doll

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:20 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote: Perhaps "daddy-cavemen" always carved his boys and girls dolls ....

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Why "daddy"?
Good point. Although I know that there was sexual division of labour, I don't know how it was actually divided up. Mommy cave-woman may have made the carvings.

If Daddy spent the day hunting Mommy would be the one with bits of free time to do a little whittling. Older people, such as men too old to hunt, could do this kind of thing to help amuse the kids or appease the spirits. They would be invested in the job because when they weren't able to do this low-energy jobs they might have been taken out and left to die under a bush.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Scott Mayers
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2331
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:56 pm
Custom Title: Deep

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby Scott Mayers » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:51 pm

I remember when this video came out in the 90's how it brought up similar concerns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A
I eat without fear of certain Death from The Tree of Knowledge because with wisdom, we may one day break free from its mortal curse.

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2667
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:08 pm
Custom Title: Yes that one.
Location: Chicago

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:18 pm

Though quite different from today's "norm", Missus Willendorf also promoted and unrealistic body image.
Scientists don't know everything, therefore my favorite flavor of stoopidz is true.

User avatar
freebill
BANNED
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 9:25 pm
Custom Title: ufo - ra believer

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby freebill » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:20 pm

Poodle wrote:I reserve judgment until I've seen freebill's theory.


the answer is manyfold

a basic internet search reveals that barbie's predecessor was bild lilli doll : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild_Lilli_doll

how did the cartoon of a sexy character turned into the barbie doll?

He drew a cute baby, but his boss didn't like it. So he kept the face, added a ponytail and a curvy woman's body and called his creation "Lilli".


it's no secret that masculinity is aroused by curvy body of femininity

why? because it is encoded in our genetics and in the roots of mind

for instance, plump/curvy cheekbones is highly feminine

although races' preferences may differ slightly, the basics seems as the same for every race on earth

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q= ... ind%22&o=s

while "the choice of stimulus is the choice of the entity" ( http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q= ... timulus%22 ), there seems also a "magnetic attraction" issue: http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q= ... ion%22&o=s

another main factor might be about the functionality of the barbie doll: children are in the process of building their body, which we call growing up, and holding/grasping materials/substances/stuff (like barbie doll) in their hands might be the vital part of that process, and one may argue that the small hands of kids can hold barbie doll better than others.

we live in a world where our hands, and especially the thumb, are vital; we couldn't build our civilization without our hands:

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?q=thumb&o=s
Last edited by freebill on Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:39 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8122
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby Poodle » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:22 pm

I'm unconvinced (although, Freebill, I'm surprised that you've come up with a reasonable set of assumptions which at least deserve some thought).

My (standard warning about assumptions based on nothing at all) assumption about the Venus figures is that the commonality of such artefacts tends to suggest an importance greater than that of mere toys. These ain't no skinny women, and they're not going to be able to sprint their way out of trouble. If they're models of reality, then they imply a sedentary way of life. If there was no sedentary way of life, then they're an imaginary representation of luxury.

I prefer the second representation but, as I wasn't there, I can't know.

Barbie? It's a doll.

User avatar
Ali3nz
New Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:48 am

Re: Skeptical About the Barbie Doll

Postby Ali3nz » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:08 am

Without a doubt, it's an iconic toy that almost anyone regardless of their age or even gender can identify.

I've found it interesting how it has progressed over the years but am unsure as to any of its ulterior motives, if any.
Shine light in darkness.

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Sketpcial About the Barbie Doll

Postby Angel » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:17 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
RonPrice wrote:BARBIE DOLL : The popular doll, Barbie, artifact of female representation and identity, of depiction and posturing of women, has evoked a steady stream of critical attention since her debut in 1959.


If you walk past a sandpit, there will be boys talking on behalf of their G.I. Joe dolls and girls talking on behalf of their Barbie dolls. I haven't got a theory yet, but I think it's something to do with pre-pubescent children practising conversation & emotions, by imitating adults, using toys. The talking with dolls may be something "stuck in our heads" and thus we can't help but like Barbie.

Which brings me to another discussion on this forum. We assume these stone carvings, which range from 35,000 to 22,000 years ago were owned by adults. I don't think we can say that with any certainty. It is my view that humans were exactly the same back then as now. Perhaps "daddy-cavemen" always carved his boys and girls dolls and we simply don't see the wooden or woven figurines.
venus-figurines-europe-paleolithic.jpg


That's where children fail~ imitating the adults they already know as ~ let's face it~ our forefathers failed. I didn't get to have dolls so
I didn't follow them. I got a cat. It taught me how to survive Lol
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26374
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Sketpcial About the Barbie Doll

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:13 pm

Angel wrote:I got a cat. It taught me how to survive.
download (12).jpg

I can't say, I'm surprised. :lol:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Angel
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Sketpcial About the Barbie Doll

Postby Angel » Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:42 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote:I got a cat. It taught me how to survive.
download (12).jpg

I can't say, I'm surprised. :lol:


Tehe
In your dreams hunny bunches of nuts lol
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?


Return to “Education”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest