Flag banning at UC Irvine and hate speech

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xouper
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Flag banning at UC Irvine and hate speech

Postby xouper » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:16 am

(Disclaimer: I assume most of you have seen this in the news, thus I didn't bother with links.)

The recent attempt by six students at the University of California, Irvine, to ban symbolic speech, and the subsequent endorsement by a plethora of professors of that action, leaves me both amused and dismayed.

In the name of diversity and creating a "culturally inclusive space", they tried to censor a form of symbolic expression they don't like, namely the display of the American flag in their lobby, which they claimed was equivalent to hate speech, among other things.

WTF??

My mind boggles at the logical self-contradiction inherent in their position. You cannot have a "culturally inclusive space" in an American university if you exclude traditional American culture.

Who is teaching them this stuff?

This is yet another reason I am grateful that the US does not have laws against hate speech. Anyone and his brother can claim something is hate speech and there go your First Amendment "privileges".

[/soapbox]

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Re: Flag banning at UC Irvine and hate speech

Postby clarsct » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:49 am

Erm...

How can you have diversity by banning what you don't like?

Seems like Newspeak to me.

Double unplus good.
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Re: Flag banning at UC Irvine and hate speech

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:36 pm

How does one enforce a ban on all symbolic speech?

And if they want diversity, maybe they shouldn't remove one flag but adding others.
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Re: Flag banning at UC Irvine and hate speech

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:59 pm

Snopes casts some light on the subject.

March 5
ASUCI Legislative Council wrote:Let it be resolved that ASUCI make every effort to make the Associated Students main lobby space as inclusive as possible.

Let it further be resolved that no flag, of any nation, may be hanged on the walls of the Associate Student main lobby space.


March 7 The Executive Cabinet reversed the Council and banned the ban.
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Re: Flag banning at UC Irvine and hate speech

Postby xouper » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:07 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:Snopes casts some light on the subject.

March 5
ASUCI Legislative Council wrote:Let it be resolved that ASUCI make every effort to make the Associated Students main lobby space as inclusive as possible.

Let it further be resolved that no flag, of any nation, may be hanged on the walls of the Associate Student main lobby space.


March 7 The Executive Cabinet reversed the Council and banned the ban.

Anyone who has been following the story in the news media already knew that, but I guess it had to be said anyway, eh? Thanks for adding that detail.

Lest someone think I was deliberately omitting that detail to increase hysteria, I would suggest that one take notice in the opening post that I never said that flag was banned, only that six students "attempted" to ban it.

In hindsight, I should have included more details, but I didn't want to write a book, and my outrage extends more to the fact that so many professors endorsed the proposed ban, a significant detail that snopes does not mention.

snopes wrote:Claim: Students at UC Irvine implemented a ban on the American flag.

I was very careful in the opening post not to make that specific claim. The key word here is "implemented". I used the words "attempted" and "tried". I assume -- but I could be wrong -- that I do not have a reputation of posting deceitful things.

snopes wrote:(The text of the resolution specifically mentioned the American flag in a few places, but it stated as its operative condition that "no flag, of any nation, may be hanged on the walls of the Associate Student main lobby space." However, it's unclear whether flags from any nations other than the U.S. had been, or were likely to be, displayed in the ASUCI student lobby space, or whether the resolution's only practical effect would have been to cause the removal of American flags.)

Perhaps snopes needs to do more investigation. According to some news reports, it was indeed originally about the American flag only.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/campus-divid ... onal-flags

msnbc wrote:According to the New University, UC Irvine’s independent student newspaper, the American flag has been a source of controversy on campus since January, when a member of the Office of Student Services hung a flag on a wall in the ASUCI office. The flag was removed by students who disagreed with its placement, and put on Zomorrodian’s desk with a note.

Zomorrodian said he didn’t view the American flag as a non-inclusive symbol. “For me, the flag transcends policy and it comes down to a representation of ideals that collectively as a society we agree on,” he told the New University. “I just simply see the flag as a symbol of inclusion.”

See the actual student newspaper report for more details:
http://www.newuniversity.org/2015/03/news/40936/

The red poster on display at snopes has the faces of the students blurred out. I assume the original (unblurred) image is still posted on facebook, but I haven't checked. It is also available in a google image search. Snopes did not invalidate anything on that poster.

I stand by my opening post. Nothing in it contains any falsehoods or deliberate misrepresentations.

My primary intention was to point out the philosophical hypocrisy of trying to create a "culturally inclusive space" by excluding one of the primary cultures of that university. My secondary point was to question whether these students are being taught critical thinking skills or are they also being brainwashed with anti-civil liberties ideologies.

Anyway, thanks for providing me the opportunity to clarify my intentions.


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