It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbits..

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It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbits..

Postby kennyc » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:50 am

1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.
FEB 14, 2014 03:20 PM ET // BY IAN O'NEILL

Dear Science Communication Professionals: We have a problem.

Earlier this month, the Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham creationism “debate” received a disproportionate amount of press coverage. Considering that there really is no debate to be had when it comes to the science of evolution, for bad or for worse, Nye faced a hostile audience at the Creationist Museum in Kentucky. He hoped to score some scientific points against Ham’s literal translation of the Bible and his absurd assertion that the world was created in 6 days and that the universe is 6,000 years old.

In my opinion, (an opinion shared by other science communicators), the Nye vs. Ham debate did little for science outreach. It was all about who sounded more convincing and only gave creationists some free advertising.

And then, today, the National Science Foundation (NSF) delivered news of a pretty shocking poll result: around one in four Americans (yes, that's 25 percent) are unaware that the Earth orbits the sun. Let’s repeat that: One in four Americans — that represents one quarter of the population — when asked probably the most basic question in science (except, perhaps, “Is the Earth flat?” Hint: No.), got the answer incorrect. Suddenly I realized why the Nye vs. Ham debate was so popular.

But wait! I hear you cry, perhaps the NSF poll was flawed? Perhaps the poll sample was too small? Sadly not. The NSF poll, which is used to gauge U.S. scientific literacy every year, surveyed 2,200 people who were asked 10 questions about physical and biological sciences. On average, the score was 6.5 out of 10 -- barely a passing grade. But for me personally, the fact that 26 percent of the respondents were unaware the Earth revolves around the sun shocked me to the core.

Perhaps I’m expecting too much of the U.S. education system? Perhaps this is just an anomaly; a statistical blip? But then, like the endless deluge of snow that is currently choking the East Coast, another outcome of the same poll appeared on the foggy horizon of scientific illiteracy: The majority of young Americans think astrology is a science.
....


http://news.discovery.com/space/astrono ... 140214.htm
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Kaepora Gaebora » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:21 pm

:(

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby fromthehills » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:01 pm

That's why I carry guns.

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Kaepora Gaebora » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:33 pm

fromthehills wrote:That's why I carry guns.


To fire it up into the atmosphere and demonstrate how gravity acts on an object?

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby SweetPea » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:51 pm

That's hard to believe. Do you have the exact question asked? It's easier to believe that many wouldn't understand what "orbits the sun" means.
In the article the wording is "Earth revolves around the sun".

I have difficulty believing this is true, as well:
Even in China, one of the birthplaces of astrology, 92 percent of the people know that astrology is bunk
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby octopus1 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:04 pm

kennyc wrote:
1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.
FEB 14, 2014 03:20 PM ET // BY IAN O'NEILL

Dear Science Communication Professionals: We have a problem.

Earlier this month, the Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham creationism “debate” received a disproportionate amount of press coverage. Considering that there really is no debate to be had when it comes to the science of evolution, for bad or for worse, Nye faced a hostile audience at the Creationist Museum in Kentucky. He hoped to score some scientific points against Ham’s literal translation of the Bible and his absurd assertion that the world was created in 6 days and that the universe is 6,000 years old.

In my opinion, (an opinion shared by other science communicators), the Nye vs. Ham debate did little for science outreach. It was all about who sounded more convincing and only gave creationists some free advertising.

And then, today, the National Science Foundation (NSF) delivered news of a pretty shocking poll result: around one in four Americans (yes, that's 25 percent) are unaware that the Earth orbits the sun. Let’s repeat that: One in four Americans — that represents one quarter of the population — when asked probably the most basic question in science (except, perhaps, “Is the Earth flat?” Hint: No.), got the answer incorrect. Suddenly I realized why the Nye vs. Ham debate was so popular.

But wait! I hear you cry, perhaps the NSF poll was flawed? Perhaps the poll sample was too small? Sadly not. The NSF poll, which is used to gauge U.S. scientific literacy every year, surveyed 2,200 people who were asked 10 questions about physical and biological sciences. On average, the score was 6.5 out of 10 -- barely a passing grade. But for me personally, the fact that 26 percent of the respondents were unaware the Earth revolves around the sun shocked me to the core.

Perhaps I’m expecting too much of the U.S. education system? Perhaps this is just an anomaly; a statistical blip? But then, like the endless deluge of snow that is currently choking the East Coast, another outcome of the same poll appeared on the foggy horizon of scientific illiteracy: The majority of young Americans think astrology is a science.
....


http://news.discovery.com/space/astrono ... 140214.htm


:lol:

That can't possibly be true?! Surely they just surveyed the smallest group of the wrong kind of people! :P

[EDIT:
But wait! I hear you cry, perhaps the NSF poll was flawed? Perhaps the poll sample was too small? Sadly not.
. Ah. My bad...]
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby SweetPea » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:21 pm

United States (2012) 74
EU (2005) 66
India (2004) 70
Malaysia (2008) 72
South Korea (2004) 86

"does the earth go around the sun"
"does the sun go around the earth"
http://doubtfulnews.com/2014/02/do-one- ... around-sun
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:25 pm

.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby SweetPea » Sat Feb 15, 2014 9:10 pm

{!#%@} amazing. How many kids does Gawdzilla actually have?
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:12 am

octopus1 wrote:That can't possibly be true? Surely they just surveyed the smallest group of the wrong kind of people!


I have to go with the facts, but it doesn't seem right. There are simply too many "pleb" TV shows that mention the earth orbiting the sun. Oh well.

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby octopus1 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:24 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
octopus1 wrote:That can't possibly be true? Surely they just surveyed the smallest group of the wrong kind of people!


I have to go with the facts, but it doesn't seem right. There are simply too many "pleb" TV shows that mention the earth orbiting the sun. Oh well.


:lol:

At least those aren't the TV shows which say, straight faced, that the Earth "goes around" the Sun. Complete with perfectly circular path diagrams and a cartoon duck to lighten things up... :P

"Hey kids! Think of the Earth as one humongous gigantic magnet! Huh-Wooaah!"
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Gord » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:32 am

Yeah, but 15% of Americans get the answer wrong even when they know the right answer. That's how Bush won Florida, remember?
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby digress » Fri May 23, 2014 9:43 pm

I'd be more "fearful" to find 1 in 4 Americans didn't know the 4th amendment. I wonder if these polls are innocently deceiving the priority of attention from an actual dire situation.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Gord » Fri May 23, 2014 10:40 pm

digress wrote:I'd be more "fearful" to find 1 in 4 Americans didn't know the 4th amendment.

Is that the one that says Mexicans are American citizens if they're born in the US?
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri May 23, 2014 11:00 pm

Gord wrote:
digress wrote:I'd be more "fearful" to find 1 in 4 Americans didn't know the 4th amendment.

Is that the one that says Mexicans are American citizens if they're born in the US?

No, it's the one that says that if a cop winks at his dog, you have illegal drugs.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby digress » Fri May 23, 2014 11:01 pm

Gord wrote:
digress wrote:I'd be more "fearful" to find 1 in 4 Americans didn't know the 4th amendment.

Is that the one that says Mexicans are American citizens if they're born in the US?


That depends on whether or not a persons nationality can be determined before they are born. If so, I'd ask how many sons revolve around Mexico?
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby nmblum88 » Sat May 24, 2014 3:16 am

Only one in four!
Surprising.
The number who don't know what it means, and (much more important) why it matters, is probably much higher.
Ignorance does abound.

I, for instance, am still surprised and even shocked at the number of people here among our opinions makers of a high order (if in a small arena) who don't know why Philosophy, as a discipline among the others that are based to real education, is important.
Or indeed what Philosophy IS, at all.
And more, not knowing what it IS, still think themselves able to comment on uselessness, and worse.
Considering that the reason we are so ill informed is that we don't have a valid, operative Philosophy about what real education means and how to communicate it (rather than easily forgettable factoids) to the general population.
A problem that is not new, but a long standing one of caste and class.
Because for must of us…. there are exceptions of course, among those deprived of the privilege… our real education, for good or ill, starts in the home.
The home, and parents, being responsible for not only encouraging curiosity and joy in learning for learning's sake but for making up for the blank spaces in mass education, with its all to often emphasis on teaching disembodied factoids to children who are not lucky enough to have a parental bulwark against conventional educational authority..


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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby scowl » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:23 pm

One poll that has shocked me year after year is the Gallup poll that shows that a large minority of Americans believe the Earth is less than 10,000 years old:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx

Over the past decades the percentage has gone up and down a few percentage points but otherwise remains level. This year it's dropped slightly to 42% but history suggests that it will rebound.

You might wonder how people who believe in a young Earth do in college. I have no statistics on that but I will never forget students in the very first day of Geology 101 being confused by the professor talking in terms of millions of years. They had graduated from high school without ever learning about the accepted origin of the solar system. This was in the early 80's and I'd like to believe things have improved but the Gallup poll tells me otherwise.

This is why 25% of people unaware that the Earth orbits the Sun doesn't surprise me.

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:55 pm

A lot of my cousins are home schooled. It seems they can get into college these days, but only if it has "Baptist" in the name.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Shaka » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:50 pm

Wow! Now that's one for the book. Like it really matters knowing whether the earth orbits the sun or the sun orbits the earth. Either way it is ignorance, because first one must ask oneself (not the others - unless of course you are ignorant of your own ignorance, then you are bound to ask the others) how they got there in the first place.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Gord » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:24 pm

Shaka wrote:Wow! Now that's one for the book. Like it really matters knowing whether the earth orbits the sun or the sun orbits the earth.

Got it: Facing reality doesn't matter.

Either way it is ignorance, because first one must ask oneself (not the others - unless of course you are ignorant of your own ignorance, then you are bound to ask the others) how they got there in the first place.

Right, because knowing one thing means you're more ignorant than if you know zero things. Because, y'know...maths.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby octopus1 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:11 am

Shaka wrote:Wow! Now that's one for the book. Like it really matters knowing whether the earth orbits the sun or the sun orbits the earth. Either way it is ignorance, because first one must ask oneself (not the others - unless of course you are ignorant of your own ignorance, then you are bound to ask the others) how they got there in the first place.


Was there a mathematical and linguistic double negative in there? Because you'd better believe that's a paddlin'...
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:31 pm

Shaka and his sockpuppets would do a lot better it they applied their ignorance of their ignorance to their ignorance instead of assuming it is their knowledge base.

  Hmmm . . . Is Shaka and the Sockpuppets an R&B group?  
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:42 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:Shaka and his sockpuppets would do a lot better it they applied their ignorance of their ignorance to their ignorance instead of assuming it is their knowledge base.

  Hmmm . . . Is Shaka and the Sockpuppets an R&B group?  

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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Shaka » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:20 am

octopus1 wrote:
Shaka wrote:Wow! Now that's one for the book. Like it really matters knowing whether the earth orbits the sun or the sun orbits the earth. Either way it is ignorance, because first one must ask oneself (not the others - unless of course you are ignorant of your own ignorance, then you are bound to ask the others) how they got there in the first place.


Was there a mathematical and linguistic double negative in there? Because you'd better believe that's a paddlin'...



Maybe you should get a cushion for your fence, then you can sit and think about it. Don't think too hard though, you might fall off and if there's no paddin you will hurt yourself.
Last edited by Shaka on Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Shaka » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:26 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:Shaka and his sockpuppets would do a lot better it they applied their ignorance of their ignorance to their ignorance instead of assuming it is their knowledge base.

  Hmmm . . . Is Shaka and the Sockpuppets an R&B group?  


Verbal acrobatics do not help, especially when there is no netting to catch the fall.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Shaka » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:36 am

Gord wrote:
Shaka wrote:Wow! Now that's one for the book. Like it really matters knowing whether the earth orbits the sun or the sun orbits the earth.

Got it: Facing reality doesn't matter.

Either way it is ignorance, because first one must ask oneself (not the others - unless of course you are ignorant of your own ignorance, then you are bound to ask the others) how they got there in the first place.

Right, because knowing one thing means you're more ignorant than if you know zero things. Because, y'know...maths.


You have misunderstood Gord, claiming to know anything is ignorance of your ignorance, knowing that you know nothing is knowledge pertaining to ignorance.

Furthermore you do not know the reality, only your private little dream world.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby JO 753 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:35 am

fromthehills wrote:That's why I carry guns.


Dude! Thats tied for 1st az a the best argument you uzed in the 2nd amendment topic.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby octopus1 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:04 am

Shaka wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
Shaka wrote:Wow! Now that's one for the book. Like it really matters knowing whether the earth orbits the sun or the sun orbits the earth. Either way it is ignorance, because first one must ask oneself (not the others - unless of course you are ignorant of your own ignorance, then you are bound to ask the others) how they got there in the first place.


Was there a mathematical and linguistic double negative in there? Because you'd better believe that's a paddlin'...



Maybe you should get a cushion for your fence, then you can sit and think about it. Don't think too hard though, you might fall off and if there's no paddin you will hurt yourself.


Shaka wrote:Wow! Now that's one for the book. Like it really matters knowing whether the earth orbits the sun or the sun orbits the earth.


It matters because, if there hadn't been an effort to solve that old dilemma (And when I say old...), there would be a great many more people making utterly nonsensical comments like yours.

Either way it is ignorance, because first one must ask oneself how they got there in the first place.


One did when one was about 8. SPOILER ALERT: Turns out it was "accretion" whodunnit...

Now I'm going to hand you a bucket, a bag, a sponge, and some gloves. And when I get back - I want to find that steaming pile of horseshite that you've left on my doorstep, gone.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby JO 753 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:10 am

Dont be angry or sad. Wut we are lucky enuf to be witnessing here 1st hand iz the branching uv the human race into Morlock and Eloi. :D
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby octopus1 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:21 am

JO 753 wrote:Dont be angry or sad. Wut we are lucky enuf to be witnessing here 1st hand iz the branching uv the human race into Morlock and Eloi. :D


Or possibly a troll who's managed to "get me good" :lol:
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Gord » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:22 am

Shaka wrote:
Gord wrote:
Shaka wrote:Wow! Now that's one for the book. Like it really matters knowing whether the earth orbits the sun or the sun orbits the earth.

Got it: Facing reality doesn't matter.

Either way it is ignorance, because first one must ask oneself (not the others - unless of course you are ignorant of your own ignorance, then you are bound to ask the others) how they got there in the first place.

Right, because knowing one thing means you're more ignorant than if you know zero things. Because, y'know...maths.

You have misunderstood Gord....

Then I guess you're a bad communicator.

Furthermore you do not know the reality, only your private little dream world.

My private little dream world represents reality.
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby octopus1 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:26 am

You have misunderstood Gord....


Yes, Shaka, I do believe that you have...
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby kennyc » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:43 am

octopus1 wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Dont be angry or sad. Wut we are lucky enuf to be witnessing here 1st hand iz the branching uv the human race into Morlock and Eloi. :D


Or possibly a troll who's managed to "get me good" :lol:


Yep, better guard those remaining 7 tentacles good!
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octopus1
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby octopus1 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:53 am

kennyc wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Dont be angry or sad. Wut we are lucky enuf to be witnessing here 1st hand iz the branching uv the human race into Morlock and Eloi. :D


Or possibly a troll who's managed to "get me good" :lol:


Yep, better guard those remaining 7 tentacles good!


I should change my name to Heptapus.
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Austin Harper
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Austin Harper » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:19 pm

octopus1 wrote:
kennyc wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Dont be angry or sad. Wut we are lucky enuf to be witnessing here 1st hand iz the branching uv the human race into Morlock and Eloi. :D

Or possibly a troll who's managed to "get me good" :lol:

Yep, better guard those remaining 7 tentacles good!

I should change my name to Heptapus.

There is a ride at Worlds of Fun in Kansas City called the Octopus but it only has six arms.
I like to call it the Hexapus.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

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octopus1
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby octopus1 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:33 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
kennyc wrote:
octopus1 wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Dont be angry or sad. Wut we are lucky enuf to be witnessing here 1st hand iz the branching uv the human race into Morlock and Eloi. :D

Or possibly a troll who's managed to "get me good" :lol:

Yep, better guard those remaining 7 tentacles good!

I should change my name to Heptapus.

There is a ride at Worlds of Fun in Kansas City called the Octopus but it only has six arms.
I like to call it the Hexapus.


When it breaks, will it be called the Pentapus?
"On the fence".... Without a cushion....

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OlegTheBatty
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:58 pm

:befuddled: So, uh, how many arms is a platypus supposed to have?
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:50 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote::befuddled: So, uh, how many arms is a platypus supposed to have?

A whole plat full.
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Gord
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Re: It's worse than I feared... 1 in 4 don't know Earth orbi

Postby Gord » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:05 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote::befuddled: So, uh, how many arms is a platypus supposed to have?

A whole plat full.

I thought it had planty.
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