English multitopic

Methods and means of supporting critical thinking in education
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Gord » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:33 am

I still talk about "the web", but I usually do so by talking about the interwebs.

Of course, "surf the web" was always a mixed metaphor. You don't surf a web, you spin it or you walk on it or you get trapped in it.
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"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Poodle » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 am

I remember the advent of the 'silver surfer'. Just sayin'.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby Gord » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:45 pm

Pleaded vs. "pled". There is no "pled". "Pled" is not a word. I refuse to accept it.

http://grammarist.com/usage/pleaded-pled/

Pled has always been considered incorrect by people who make such judgments, but it is so common that we have to accept it as an alternative form.

No we must NOT accept it. Once you start accepting the incorrect, you make the incorrect correct. This must not be allowed to stand!

Anyway, I've been watching too much news coverage of the Trump debacle. The commentators keep trying to be careful and keep using "pleaded", but every once in a while a "pled" will plop out.

I sit here watching and correcting their "lay/lie" and "pleaded/pled" errors (plus all the other ones I notice). It's very annoying for everyone else around me. TV commentators should be more responsible with their speech!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: English multitopic

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:46 pm

Poodle wrote:I remember the advent of the 'silver surfer'. Just sayin'.


Yabbut Spider-Man is the web surfer.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: English multitopic

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:49 pm

Gord wrote:Pleaded vs. "pled". There is no "pled". "Pled" is not a word. I refuse to accept it.

http://grammarist.com/usage/pleaded-pled/

Pled has always been considered incorrect by people who make such judgments, but it is so common that we have to accept it as an alternative form.

No we must NOT accept it. Once you start accepting the incorrect, you make the incorrect correct. This must not be allowed to stand!

Anyway, I've been watching too much news coverage of the Trump debacle. The commentators keep trying to be careful and keep using "pleaded", but every once in a while a "pled" will plop out.

I sit here watching and correcting their "lay/lie" and "pleaded/pled" errors (plus all the other ones I notice). It's very annoying for everyone else around me. TV commentators should be more responsible with their speech!

Grist for your mill
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: English multitopic

Postby Gord » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:19 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:Pleaded vs. "pled". There is no "pled". "Pled" is not a word. I refuse to accept it.

http://grammarist.com/usage/pleaded-pled/

Pled has always been considered incorrect by people who make such judgments, but it is so common that we have to accept it as an alternative form.

No we must NOT accept it. Once you start accepting the incorrect, you make the incorrect correct. This must not be allowed to stand!

Anyway, I've been watching too much news coverage of the Trump debacle. The commentators keep trying to be careful and keep using "pleaded", but every once in a while a "pled" will plop out.

I sit here watching and correcting their "lay/lie" and "pleaded/pled" errors (plus all the other ones I notice). It's very annoying for everyone else around me. TV commentators should be more responsible with their speech!

Grist for your mill

Notice the example of use in the past tense uses "pleaded". :P
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: English multitopic

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:57 pm

Gord wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gord wrote:Pleaded vs. "pled". There is no "pled". "Pled" is not a word. I refuse to accept it.

http://grammarist.com/usage/pleaded-pled/

Pled has always been considered incorrect by people who make such judgments, but it is so common that we have to accept it as an alternative form.

No we must NOT accept it. Once you start accepting the incorrect, you make the incorrect correct. This must not be allowed to stand!

Anyway, I've been watching too much news coverage of the Trump debacle. The commentators keep trying to be careful and keep using "pleaded", but every once in a while a "pled" will plop out.

I sit here watching and correcting their "lay/lie" and "pleaded/pled" errors (plus all the other ones I notice). It's very annoying for everyone else around me. TV commentators should be more responsible with their speech!

Grist for your mill

Notice the example of use in the past tense uses "pleaded". :P

The dictionary pled "Not Guilty".
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

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Re: English multitopic

Postby JO 753 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:04 am

I'v alwayz hearded and readed 'pled'.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby TJrandom » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:59 am

Poodle wrote:I remember the advent of the 'silver surfer'. Just sayin'.


Oh, that is a geriatric lounge lizard - right? :oldman:

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Re: English multitopic

Postby Poodle » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:34 am

Well, at least they were older people getting onto the net. Our Bright Young Things wondered how they could do it, being - you know - ancient.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:41 am

A harvard law professor just said preposition vs proposition. Simple misspeak, or something more grotesque?
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Poodle » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:53 am

A preposition is the wrong word to end a sentence with.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:14 am

Poodle wrote:A preposition is the wrong word to end a sentence with.

thats an interesting proposition.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Austin Harper » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:34 pm

Poodle wrote:A preposition is the wrong word to end a sentence with.

This rule is ridiculous and has never been the case for spoken English. It comes from grammarians deciding that because Latin grammar doesn't allow for it (where it wouldn't make any sense because of the way noun cases work) it shouldn't be allowed in English either.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Poodle » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:26 pm

You got it. 'Proper' English is littered with Latin rules. Hence "This is a situation up with which I shall not put"

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Re: English multitopic

Postby JO 753 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:13 am

Yoda? Or Fat Tony?
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Monster » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:56 am

Hitchens.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Monster » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:34 pm

What is the word for "bathroom" in your part of the English speaking world? In the US, the most common word is "bathroom". Sometimes you can see "restroom" at a place like a zoo or airport.

Does your country use:
water closet
restroom
loo
bathroom
toilet
the facilities
something else?

Also, if you saw "bathroom" on a website describing a hotel room, would people from your country instantly know what it means?
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Austin Harper » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:42 pm

I almost always hear and say bathroom but see restroom written.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Poodle » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:44 pm

Pick any from loo, lav, lavvy, lavatory, toilet, bog, occasionally bathroom, equally occasionally shitter or shithouse.
EDIT: Just in case you think the last couple on the crude side, they derive directly from late Anglo Saxon villages which invariably had a '{!#%@} brook' - a small stream into which all such waste was thrown. It was a good idea to make sure everyone knew exactly which one that was, although the smell should have been a big clue.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby TJrandom » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:49 pm

We use toilet, since the toilet is never in the bathroom - which is a room wherein you bathe. The toilet is a separate room where you piss or defecate. However, travellers are rarely confused, no matter the chosen word.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby Gord » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:32 am

Washroom.

And now for something completely different:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U0C3LOwEP0
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Re: English multitopic

Postby JO 753 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:06 pm

I'm 58 and just notist that spindle haz spin in it, yet spindlez do not spin.

Axlez spin. Axlez do not chop wood.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:12 pm

spindle | Synonyms of spindle by Oxford Dictionaries Thesaurus
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/thesaurus/spindle

Synonyms of spindle - pivot, pin, rod, axle. ... Synonyms of spindle in English: spindle. See definition of spindle. noun. 1. SYNONYMS. pivot, pin, rod, axle. axis.
xxxxxxxx
Definition of spindle for English Language Learners. : a thin rod or stick with pointed ends that is used in making yarn. : the long, thin pin on a spinning wheel that is used to make thread.
Spindle | Definition of Spindle by Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spindle
xxxxx

spindle-shaped
adjective

Having a circular cross section and tapering toward each end.
xxxxxxxxxxx

Don't get me started on prickwood or frogging.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby JO 753 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:25 pm

Wy? Wut horrible calamity rezults frum that?
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Re: English multitopic

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:36 pm

Just a joke jo. Prickwood...sounds made up doesn't it?
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Re: English multitopic

Postby JO 753 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:48 pm

A crack haz appeared. Small, but unmistakeable - the aether haz been damajed.

In sivilizationz uv far greater awareness than ourz, they are alredy shouting "Dam you JO! Dam you to the most heinous Hell." For once cracked, the end iz inevitable. A flaw in the firmament haz been created. The foundation stonez uv reality itself have been comprimized irrepairably.

My appolojyz to everybody for getting bob started.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Subaru7 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:41 pm

'
Consider LAY and LIE:

Lay (lay, laid, laid) is transitive (takes a direct object) : "He lays the book on the table" : "Yesterday, he laid the book on the table" : "He has laid the book on the table."

Lie (lie, lay, lain) is intransitive (does not take a direct object) : "He lies there all day" : "Yesterday, he lay there all day" : "He has lain there all day."

It is easy to distinguish between "who" and "whom" if you can re-arrange the sentence with a personal pronoun and seeif it take subject or object form.

"That is the man whom I saw." --- "I saw him."
"That is the man who gave me the book." --- "He gave me the book."

The only real problem is if there is a parenthetical expression which is unnecessary to the sense of the sentence :

"Whoever they think came to the meeting, never bought a ticket."
Take out the parenthetical phrase "they think" and you have "Whoever came..." --- "He came..."

Quite different from : "Whomever they saw, they greeted." --- "They saw him." No parenthetical phrase.

Even Shakespeare erred on this one :
"Young Ferdinand, whom they suppose is drown'd..."

"who is drown'd..." --- "He is drown'd..."

We may spare the Bard our severest censure by noting that this is preceded by "while I visit young Ferdinand..."
Ferdinand, being a direct object might be expected to be followed by the objective "whom" --- "...whom you know."
But, of course, in the Shakespeare example, who must be the subject of the clause "who is drown'd."

So, even Slick Willy sometimes nods !! · · :)

No well educated English speaker errs in regard to "whom" and "who."

In the example, "whom" would be correct if it read, "Young Ferdinand, whom they drowned...." (they drowned him)

But with the parenthetical phrase, "they suppose", "whom" is unequivocally wrong !
.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:36 pm

[12yo]mul tit opic[/12yo]
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Poodle » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:22 am

Subaru7 wrote:yaddya yadda
yadda yadda
yadda yadda
...
...
...
But with the parenthetical phrase, "they suppose", "whom" is unequivocally wrong !
.

Never begin a sentence with a preposition or conjunction ...
... is also false, although mainly applicable.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:42 am

I think you can start a sentence with a preposition, just not end it with one?

On the issue of grammar, I think that is correct.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Poodle » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:52 am

And I think you may be correct. It was just a post to be going along with.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:23 am

Before we go too far, can we agree the age of adherence to formal grammar rules is over?
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Re: English multitopic

Postby JO 753 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:18 pm

nowudimsain?

No. Its that the rulez are chanjing.

An important new rule iz that all statements begin with nowudimsain? (know what I'm saying?)

Another iz that its bad form to not end a statement az a question. Makes you sound arrogant for being too sertain.

Herez a proper exchanje:

Jerry: nowudimsayin? so your boy frend turned out to be a girl, so cheating with your sister iz OK?

Laquanishica: nowudimsain? ye, Jerry, kuz yu no like its so kool? nowudimsain? like all in the family yuno?

Audiens: nowudimsain? WOOF! WOOF! WOOF! nowudimsain? JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

Jerry: nowudimsain? wen we kum back, we'll meet Buford hoo sez hiz mom keeps stealing hiz boyfrendz?
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Subaru7 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:53 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Before we go too far, can we agree the age of adherence to formal grammar rules is over?

I certainly do not agree.

Granted that language changes, but adherence to prescriptive grammar greatly aids clarity in writing and speaking, and we are living in an Age of Great Unclarity.
.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby Subaru7 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:58 pm

Oh, I just LOATHE Image
people saying things like "between you and I" or "She came with Karen and I." · · Image

Prepositions always, Always, ALWAYS take as their objects nouns and pronouns in the objective case!!!!

You wouldn't say, "He hit I," or "He went with she." Then why the hell would you say, "He went with her and I"? · · It must be "between you and me" -- "He went with her" -- "He went with her and me, me, ME" !!!!

And what is one to say of such monstrosities as "Karen invited Sheila and I."
"Karen invited I" ?? NO, NO, NO -- a thousand times NO !!!!!

That is equally barbarous and inarticulate as saying, "Me Tarzan, him hunter" !!!!!
.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby Gord » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:52 pm

People around me often say things such as "Her and her mom went to the store". I just cringe and wait for them to make the "lay/lie" mistake so I can correct that one instead.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Subaru7 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:04 am

'
My bibles of grammar and usage are H. W. Fowler's Modern English Usage and The King's English.

As an American, I particularly enjoy the more than twenty pages in The King's English which he devotes to the distinction between shall and will.

At the beginning of the article, he remarks:

"It is unfortunate that the idiomatic use, while it comes by nature to southern Englishmen (who will find most of this section superfluous), is so complicated that those who are not to the manner born can hardly acquire it; and for them the section is in danger of being useless. In apology for the length of these remarks it must be said that the short and simple directions often given are worse than useless. The observant reader soon loses faith in them from their constant failure to take him right; and the unobservant is the victim of false security."
[emphasis added]

In future, I shall continue to take Fowler as my guide; I am determined that I will never quit my allegiance to him. No matter what you or anyone else will ever say, you shall fail to shake my resolution in this matter!
.

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Re: English multitopic

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:32 am

I shell heed thy suggestions.
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Re: English multitopic

Postby Gord » Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:22 pm

I memorised the dictionary in Grade 1, I don't need no more lessons no more.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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