Climate Change - Natural or Not.

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Cadmusteeth
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Cadmusteeth » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:59 pm

Phoenix,
It’s how it’s changing that is bad. It’s warming faster than what is natural. And that’s having an adverse effect on our ecosystems, like our oceans, and that has adverse effects on industries that rely on those ecosystems to make living, like the fishing industry.

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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:32 am

Phoenix seems to think that the conditions that needed to change in order for life to advance on Earth are irrelevant for life to continue. Can't be more addled than that. Ecosystems change and those changes affect what species prosper and which ones go extinct. The record so far: 99% of species have gone extinct...….but Phoenix doesn't know and on this particular subject has chosen not to believe the experts who have spent their lives studying the issue.

I know: an idiot savant, without the savant.
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Gord » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:42 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:So you are saying that "Climate Change" is a bad thing. My point is that "Climate Change" has been happening ever since our little Green Planet was born and it will continue to happen. Good or Bad??? Don't really know. Probably both. But you are claiming it is bad, so therefore it has been bad ever since the start. Just part of the evolution of Earth et al. That being the case, we are not going to stop it.
In most cases, climate change is bad for humans. That's because it's a change. We're not nomadic anymore, we settle permanently in places with specific conditions; when those conditions change, it forces us to change either where we're living or how we're living.
And global warming is still a moot point IMHO. Over time earth has warmed and cooled, and no doubt will continue to do so. Ice ages have come and gone before humans evolved, so who was to blame for that. Perhaps the dinosaurs?
How is it a moot point exactly? How does anything that happened before humans were around alter your view on what's happening right now? This is another one of those bizarre discussions I've seen deniers turn to before, and I've never understood it. I mean, asteroids have struck the Earth in the past and caused massive devastation, so that means we SHOULDN'T be concerned if we discover one is going to strike the Earth sometime in the next hundred years or so?

That's just baffling to me.

Here are the facts: We're changing the climate due to our activities, and it will have negative impacts on billions of people over the course of time. We know we're causing it, and we know how we're causing it.
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:56 pm

Two vitals.

1. We must mitigate the climate change. We know how to do this and we have started, though there is still a lot more to do.
2. We must adapt. Warming and it's consequences are now inevitable, and we have to adapt. This is something we can do. I think of the International Space Station, which in the vacuum of space acts as a giant Dewer flask, retaining heat. It has its own form of nasty global warming inside it. But the designers have adapted. They built a huge heat pump, carrying heat to high surface area black heat radiators, to radiate the excess heat into space. We can adapt to warming here on Earth, not with a giant heat pump, but with a thousand small changes.

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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by robinson » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:47 pm

Gord wrote:In most cases, climate change is bad for humans.
That is not only a nonsense claim, but terribly unscientific. It's impossible to even know such a thing.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Gord » Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:17 am

robinson wrote:
Gord wrote:In most cases, climate change is bad for humans.
That is not only a nonsense claim, but terribly unscientific. It's impossible to even know such a thing.
Well, that was a dumb thing for you to post. I just have to repost the rest of the paragraph you clipped to explain why everything you just said was wrong!
That's because it's a change. We're not nomadic anymore, we settle permanently in places with specific conditions; when those conditions change, it forces us to change either where we're living or how we're living.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:19 am

Gord wrote: Well, that was a dumb thing for you to post. I just have to repost the rest of the paragraph you clipped to explain why everything you just said was wrong!
Exactly so.....just what I thought when I read the misquote. You know.....most deniers are just this stupid. And dishonest. They think calling themselves TRUE Skeptics will cause us not to notice.

Too many people are...……….silly.
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Cadmusteeth » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:26 pm

It’s politics. It’s purely politics.

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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:41 pm

Its more than politics if defined as who gets elected. Its CONSEQUENCES of failure to act which is: "Going to Kill Us All." ………….Thank you, I'll be here all week. Please tip the wait staff...…….
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:10 pm

It is also selective blindness.

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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:17 pm

Say lance: if we remain blind to the consequence of burning fossil carbon....what is the worst case outcome?
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:11 am

Not an appropriate question, Bobbo. The blindness is restricted to idiots.

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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:03 am

Irrelevant response. You do that a lot. The why of it, is obvious. How many degrees separated from claiming you can't understand what is being said?

Wisdom doesn't start until you can answer direct questions.

Try it.
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by robinson » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:50 pm

Gord wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:When this subject first came up for debate, it was called global warming. After a couple of years, or whatever, it became climate change. Well, suddenly, the world wasn't really warming anymore. Yes the climate was still changing. That is the only constant in this argument. And in my very amateur opinion, that will never change.
These are things I've heard from global warming deniers before, and they're all false.

The original term was "climate change". Later "global warming" became a subject of concern because it would lead to climate change. There was no point along the way where the world had stopped warming, despite the claims of the deniers.
None of the above is true. None of it.
"If you tell people the truth, make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you"
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:56 am

The above covers both sides of the issue. Perhaps some vagary re when the conversation started?

My memory would be first there were concerns regarding global cooling because of pop culture headlines reporting what fishermen in Alaska were saying: ie: not scientific at all and not an issue until it was a supposed argument against the first terminology which was global warming. Global Warming is accurate as the general trend line but too many Deniers complained it was getting colder where they were so GW was "wrong." An accommodation was made to this group changing the label to Climate Change to address those concern, but none of the underlying science, data, concerns were changed at all.

The truth is: we are warming up and if we don't stop burning fossil fuels....we are all going to die. Course....we will stop burning fossil fuels when society crumbles from the effects of Global Warming, and that might allow a few millions to carry our defective dna forward. That's the bright view "if" we don't stop burning fossil fuel.

Ha, ha……...and so far, we haven't stopped. Trusting in science, like magic, to provide some miracle solution so that people don't have to change our ways.

So...….what in relevant part is not true?
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Gord » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:02 pm

robinson wrote:
Gord wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:When this subject first came up for debate, it was called global warming. After a couple of years, or whatever, it became climate change. Well, suddenly, the world wasn't really warming anymore. Yes the climate was still changing. That is the only constant in this argument. And in my very amateur opinion, that will never change.
These are things I've heard from global warming deniers before, and they're all false.

The original term was "climate change". Later "global warming" became a subject of concern because it would lead to climate change. There was no point along the way where the world had stopped warming, despite the claims of the deniers.
None of the above is true. None of it.
:falloff:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Cadmusteeth » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:16 pm

He thinks he know better than the experts.

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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Jul 28, 2018 5:22 pm

Robinson chooses only to dump his Denial and nonsense on this forum. If he has ever supported any idea presented....its been so long ago, I don't recall it. "Probably" a better situation than when he would tag team with Jim Steele who went into overdrive. Sadly, mostly off point but often with some nuggets here and there.
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Gord » Sun Jul 29, 2018 4:44 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:He thinks he know better than the experts.
I mistakenly thought he was making a self-referencial joke mocking global warming deniers.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by landrew » Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:58 pm

Why not switch to biofuels, which are carbon neutral? Seems to me the trouble started when they started dragging coal out of the earth and adding carbon to the ecosystem. Then maybe Trump's farmers won't go bankrupt. I'm sure any food shortages would be only temporary.
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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:28 am

Landrew

Biofuels are a scam. Third world countries cut down forest to produce biofuels, which they sell (mainly to the EU) and claim it is a renewable energy source. But they do not replant the forest, unless it is with palm oil trees. Thus, they are simply driving deforestation and destroying ecosystems.

There are energy sources that do not drive global warming. Nuclear, wind and solar.

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Re: Climate Change - Natural or Not.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:24 am

Biofuels are a good idea: turn organic waste currently burned or put into landfills into a resource for useable fuel and plastics. The biofuel scams are just that...……...scams. Don't confuse the two like saying there is Clean Coal or Safe Nukes.
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