Gulf oil spill

[rrichar911]

I'm not sure if my facts are correct, but it is my understanding that we have in place methadology to take care of oil spills in the gulf.  

One method is to set fire to it, the light burns and the heavy falls to the bottom of the ocean.   But it has now reached the shore and looks like it will be the worst enviro desaster in history.  

Could this have been avoided by prompt action?  

Who's job was it to impliment the procedures?  Looks to me like it was Obama's call.

[Chachacha]

That's it, rrichar, nothing is more important than your obsession, take advantage of this horrible disaster to fire your anti-Obama missiles.  What does the Bible say about the POTUS and oil spills, some ominous message that they're both black?

[fromthehills]

That's kind of a can of worms, don't you think? Maybe Obama could have made quicker executive decisions, but it wasn't like he was going to pull on his rubber boots, grab a shop vac and save the planet. BP was lying about the size of the spill, so no one was prepared for the amount of clean up. Nature, in the form of five foot waves, thwarted the efforts that were made to contain it.

What would anyone do? Pailin might pray for a hurricane to clean it up.

With oil companies cutting corners to squeeze another dollar out of a barrel on one side, and then anti-nuclear sentiment from the hippies, we have to face the fact that we draw our energy from dirty dangerous resources, and if we tap those resources on our shores and in our wilderness, and we don't pursue cleaner, sustainable energy, we are going to have catastrophic messes to clean up.

How's that Drill Baby Drill thingy workin' out for ya, Sarah.

[Chachacha]

That's kind of a can of worms, don't you think? Maybe Obama could have made quicker executive decisions, but it wasn't like he was going to pull on his rubber boots, grab a shop vac and save the planet. BP was lying about the size of the spill, so no one was prepared for the amount of clean up. Nature, in the form of five foot waves, thwarted the efforts that were made to contain it.

What would anyone do? Pailin might pray for a hurricane to clean it up.

With oil companies cutting corners to squeeze another dollar out of a barrel on one side, and then anti-nuclear sentiment from the hippies, we have to face the fact that we draw our energy from dirty dangerous resources, and if we tap those resources on our shores and in our wilderness, and we don't pursue cleaner, sustainable energy, we are going to have catastrophic messes to clean up.

How's that Drill Baby Drill thingy workin' out for ya, Sarah.

What's the protocol?  We've got the head of THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY commenting on this, what the heck does that mean?  We trust the oil companies to do it right until they don't, and then it's the government's responsibility?  When does the government respond?  When it's just another oil rig explosion and a "little" spill of a thousand gallons a day?  No.  Okay, so when does it become important?  What's the magic spill number???

Yep, oil and coal, that's the way to go.   Drill, baby, drill.  Dig, baby, dig.  Whoopsie.

[OlegTheBatty]

I thinks its much too soon to tell if Obama's reaction was too slow. The Montera oil spill in the Timor Sea last year took 10 weeks to get under control.

It looks like getting these spills capped way down there ain't so easy.

On the brighter side, the flow rate appears to be increasing (BP's initial estimates may not have been lies), and there is a fear that the rushing crude is bringing sufficient abrasives with it to erode the piping, and possibly to blow it completely, creating a gusher 5000 ft down.

[ShadowSot]

Woof, that'll be hitting here on the Florida coast soon enough. I'll have to check ni and see if there's something to do here towards helping.

[Chachacha]

Woof, that'll be hitting here on the Florida coast soon enough. I'll have to check ni and see if there's something to do here towards helping.

I hate to sound like a crybaby, but I am fighting back the tears.  Good thing I can forestall them with rage.

[ShadowSot]

Woof, that'll be hitting here on the Florida coast soon enough. I'll have to check ni and see if there's something to do here towards helping.

I hate to sound like a crybaby, but I am fighting back the tears.  Good thing I can forestall them with rage.

I grew up around Florida, most of my best memories are on the Gulf.
I snorkel, canoe, kayak, and fish as often as I can.
Can't really describe to you how much I love the water, and the animals in it.
  And not just that, but the marine related economy as well, will take a impact.

I'm not mad or sad 'cause each is pointless. If I dwell on it to much I'll just get depressed.
most i can do is try to help in whatever way possible to mitigate the damage.

Unfortunately, as long as people try to save a buck, there will be...

Well, you can't call it an accident, 'cause they knew something would have happened, and have calculated it into their win/risk scenario.
I'd classify it as a act of humanity, 'cause ultimately, that's what this was. Human greed, and human need.

On that dour note, if we can work to avert as much of the damage as possible, and use this incident to force stronger protocols and make pursuing alternate sources of energy, that too would be a act of humanity.

Er...
Gosh I sound like a douchebag...


I'm going to the beach tomorrow, before it's to fouled up.

[Chachacha]

Agree on all points, except the one about you sounding like a douchebag, and would encourage you to go to the beach today, if at all possible, because tomorrow may be too late.

[HghrSymmetry]

I'm not sure if my facts are correct, but it is my understanding that we have in place methadology to take care of oil spills in the gulf.  

Therein lies the rub.  A spill is one thing, but  a pressurized under-ocean  gusher is quite a different matter.

[OlegTheBatty]

I'm not sure if my facts are correct, but it is my understanding that we have in place methadology to take care of oil spills in the gulf.  

Therein lies the rub.  A spill is one thing, but  a pressurized under-ocean  gusher is quite a different matter.

As if that wasn't enough ...

The weather has also made it impossible for crews to skim oil from the water's surface or burn it off, said Rear Admiral Sally Brice-O'Hara, the deputy commandant of operations for the U.S. Coast Guard.

... and, reminiscent of the Captain of the Titanic ...

In its 2009 exploration plan and environmental impact analysis for the well, BP suggested it was unlikely or virtually impossible for an accident to occur that would lead to a giant crude oil spill and serious damage to beaches, fish and mammals.

[Bart Stewart]

BP is presently fabricating enormous containment domes, or cofferdams, that they hope to lower over the gusher. These would catch the oil as it rises and pump it to a high capacity barge on the surface. It's not as simple as it sounds, since the site is so deep in the ocean. Also it will take a while to build the cofferdams.

They are already talking about how the Gulf Stream may catch some of this spill and drag it up the entire Eastern Seaboard of the United States. And of course we're getting into hurricane season now.

Has there ever been another spill from the ocean floor itself, as opposed to a ship leaking? What if the site continues to degrade, with the hole on the ocean floor expanding and releasing ever more oil?  How bad could this thing potentially get?

[rrichar911]

How bad?  It could be the worst enviro disaster in history.

On the radio today an engineer said that it was probably blowing out beside the pipe, making it impossible to cap.  

oh and for the vane sarcastic emotional lady, park your car, I have a new broom for you to ride.  No oil required.

Even though logical points don't register.  

People tend to judge others on the level at which they themselves operate.

[rrichar911]

How many people died building Hoover dam?  

Does that mean we should not build dams?  

There are risks in anything we do.  The moral of the story being, that you do all you can to reduce the risk, rather than staying in bed all day.  There are consequences to doing that to.  Abject poverty.

and who's job is it to insure that enviro risk is minimal?  Who sets the rules and the safe guards?

If the gov does not have procedures in place for dealing with oil spills in the gulf, why not?  If the US going to drill in the Gulf, not to mention, Mexico, China, Cuba, and Russia, a spill is only a matter of time.

[rrichar911]

How's that Drill Baby Drill thingy workin' out for ya, Sarah.

That would be China, Cuba, Mexico, and Russia, that are drill baby drilling in the Gulf.. off the US shores, well up until Obama opened up some off shore areas that don't have any oil in them.  

Was that Sarah's idea?

BP stands for British Petrol  .   Is that an American company?

[bigtim]

I love it…  the same hypocrites that scream that government is “too big” want government to step in and do everything.  The spill was, and is, BP’s ownership.  They can’t handle it.  The Coast Guard was on the scene from the start.  How is that not quick response?  I have a word for people that want to take a horrible event and twist it into fodder for their own politico/religious fanaticism.. it’s shitbag.

The well head is a mile down.  That is not easy to cap, and not easy to get down there.  The latest idea they have is a “funnel” but it’s an untried action at that depth and pressure.  We do not have technology and methods in place to deal with this.  And BP has the expertise, the US government does not.  

The big thing is that what the folks that opposed off-shore drilling feared the most has just happened.

[Bart Stewart]

Couldn't agree more Tim, thank you.

The latest news is that the cofferdam mentioned above has been built and they are preparing to take it out to the site and lower it down. The weather is supposed to be good. This is the best hope we have right now.

As for the larger picture regarding the health of the oceans, it is not good, and the problems are multi-faceted. There are vast "dead zones" in the oceans around the world, places that once thrived with life and are now empty. The Gulf of Mexico had a great big one even before this spill. There is a massive rotating "island" of garbage in the Pacific, bigger than Texas. In some parts of the Pacific the plankton is actually out-numbered by particles of plastic. The oceans have been a convenient out-of-sight-out-of-mind dumping ground for nuclear waste from several countries, for decades. We probably don't know a tiny fraction of what gets towed out to sea and dumped.

Then there's this - -
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-po ... id.Oceans/

As for the political side of the Gulf oil spill, Big Tim summed it up well enough. But not having a case against Obama has never stopped any rightie from blowing up in the past. This spill is not Obama's "Katrina," as this article makes clear.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/05/03 ... s-katrina/

[OlegTheBatty]

The cause of the explosion is still unknown, but one of the candidates is methane buildup from disturbance of the seabed methane clathrate.

Haliburton finished building this thing just 20 hours before the explosion. It seems they were aware of the risk of methane release.

[Gord]

I think it's clear, deregulation is the only way to fix this gusher.

[rrichar911]

They are required by law to keep booms on hand to contain oil spills.  They didn't have any, and in a frantic rush, called the manufacturer to order some.  

Who's job is it to enforce this law?  

If there is an accident and your house catches on fire, the fire dept does not show up, and thus your neighbors house also catches fire, does the fire dept share the blame?  

A legit function of government is helping out with dezasters  

Why is it that the left thinks that the gov should help out with every thing under the sun but not with oil spills?

It is not quite effective to just show up and take pictures.

There are mandated procedures in place, pre approved by congress and the Prez.  None of them were done.

[Blacksamwell]

There are mandated procedures in place, pre approved by congress and the Prez.  None of them were done.

Were these mandated procedures in place before Oct 2008 or are they new regulations put in place by the current administration?

Are this administration's actions in regards to the regulations and enforcement of said regulations any different than what happened in any previous administration?

Had a different candidate won the elections in 2008 is there any reason to expect we'd have different outcomes for the current predicament?

[Flash]

Gord wrote:

I think it's clear, deregulation is the only way to fix this gusher.

 
The markets will take care of it.

[OlegTheBatty]

There are mandated procedures in place, pre approved by congress and the Prez.  None of them were done.

Why do you think your Coast Guard is lying? They say everything was tried but didn't work because the seas were running too high.

[Bart Stewart]

Someone on another message board said that T.Boone Pickens (of BP) was on the Morning Joe show on MSNBC today, and said it could be 5 to 6 months before the gusher could be contained. Factor in a hurricane season on top of that.

This oil field that's leaking probably holds many billions of barrels of oil. It's not going to run out until it is capped. If Pickens' forecast falls short of the actual time needed for containment (BP has been stating optimistic scenarios from the start) and if we are further delayed by one or more major storms, this volcano of oil could be surging for closer to a year.

This will be unprecedented. Ocean currents move pollutants all around the world, of course. We already heard about the prospects of the Gulf Stream pulling the oil slick up the east coast of the United States. I'm still trying to get an idea of the full, realistic, ramifications of all this.

[fromthehills]

Yes, this oil spill will have far reaching implications. It is going to be the worst environmental disaster ever, at least caused by man. It is natural for a guy to want to point fingers, when you're angry, but, Richard, you are pointing the wrong finger, at the wrong guy, for the wrong reasons. It's fine not to be happy with our leaders, but it's weird to blame them for things that they have no fault in. There have already been plenty of comments here that support my opinion on the matter, so I won't go into it.

Richard, what if I blamed you if I had a liver problem, and had to give up my beloved ale? Of course, you might argue that you had nothing to do with the issue, but I can argue that you didn't advise me to slow down, and you aren't here to make sure I am cutting back, or quitting. I say it's easier for me to blame you, than it is to blame my own habits. You're my scapegoat. This is hypothetical, of course, but if I do one day have liver issues....

I think you are angry, since you're toeing the Republican party line, this means your side will lose even more favor. Therefore, you feel compelled to have a knee-jerk reaction against the other side. I think it's good that you are sharing your point of view, and it's good that you get to see others' point of view. In this case, however, I disagree with you.

[Chachacha]

Anyone who has seen a divorced person who obviously loves their child(ren), belittle and criticize their child's father or mother, knows that hate can be much stronger than love and, like love, hate can destroy one's common sense.  The joy they feel, the justification, and the I'm-right-s/he's-scum feeling is more important than anything, including the well-being and development of their own child(ren).   This is the result of extremism and all extremists exhibit the same patterns of thinking and behavior; twisting and discarding rational thought and common sense to satisfy their desire to blame "the other(s)".

[Gord]

... it could be 5 to 6 months.... If Pickens' forecast falls short of the actual time needed for containment (BP has been stating optimistic scenarios from the start)....

I predict he was overstating the amount of time it would take, so that they could do it in a shorter time and look like heroes.

I believe it's called "the Scottie factor."

[fromthehills]

I wish I could learn to employ the Scottie Factor more often.

[Chachacha]

... it could be 5 to 6 months.... If Pickens' forecast falls short of the actual time needed for containment (BP has been stating optimistic scenarios from the start)....

I predict he was overstating the amount of time it would take, so that they could do it in a shorter time and look like heroes.

I believe it's called "the Scottie factor."

I hope you're right, Gord.  I've heard estimates of 3-4 months, the results of which are still unfathonable, but since, as I understand it, they have never faced a problem of this type at this depth, I don't think anyone really knows, but I hope you're right.

[xbacksideslider]

In So Cal in the early 60's, when we'd go to the beach at Malibu my mother would always bring rags and a gallon of paint thinner.

We'd have to clean the tar off our feet before we got back into the car.  We all sat on the rear bumper and wiped our feet.  You don't have to do that nowadays.  IMO the offshore oil wells relieved the pressure that caused the seeps that resulted in the tar on the beach that stuck to our feet.

I'm skeptical of claims that so-called alternative energy sources can replace fossil fuels.  

Drill baby drill.

[Flash]

What a nice green logo BP has. Letterman was making fun of that last night "ze little flower". If they  had spent the money they blew on that {!#%@} logo and bought themselves an acoustic valve which apparently they use in the North Sea because EU or somebody told them so they wouldn't have this problem. Robert F. Kennedy has an article in the Huffington Post describing how they bribed the Minerals Management Service  so they would not have to install this acoustic valve, a form of a dead man's switch.
Also the Haliburton just finished reinforcing the drill hole with concrete, apparently a very sensitive operation. When they recently did a similar job off Australia  they {!#%@} it up and are under  Australian investigation.

[xbacksideslider]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html

Politco reports that Obama is the #1 recipient of BP campaign cash.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... les05.html

Seattle Times reports that BP got around need for EIR last year.

[Brian Ganek]

Yes, this oil spill will have far reaching implications. It is going to be the worst environmental disaster ever, at least caused by man.....

I'm skeptical of the hysterical reports of "worst environmental disaster".

[Bart Stewart]

I'm skeptical of the hysterical reports of "worst environmental disaster".

You're skeptical that there has ever been any environmental disaster, of any kind, anywhere - Worst, best, or in between. It's just all good.

[fromthehills]

Yes, this oil spill will have far reaching implications. It is going to be the worst environmental disaster ever, at least caused by man.....

I'm skeptical of the hysterical reports of "worst environmental disaster".

I don't have a problem with anyone being skeptical of the claim that this is the worst environmental disaster ever, but I would like to see your evidence for a worse one. Even a link to a story about a worse, man-made environmental disaster. Of course, this one's not over yet.

I would love to be wrong, so I'm not going to stubbornly hold to my claim, actually the claim of reports that I find plausible, but even if it's not the very worst, as I think it could be, this is certainly going to devastate the fishing industry, among many other deleterious effects, for quite some time, and it should change how we view off shore drilling. I'd rather eat affordable seafood, than have oil-fired electricity. A guy can't eat oil.

I'm all for driving any automobile I like, but I'm also for figuring out better ways to produce electricity. If we can cut oil and coal power plants out of the loop, we could reduce greenhouse gases, and drive cool, powerful cars and trucks for much longer. We could also reduce the amount of aggressive drilling and mining, that devastates our other natural resources.

[rrichar911]

There are mandated procedures in place, pre approved by congress and the Prez.  None of them were done.

Were these mandated procedures in place before Oct 2008 or are they new regulations put in place by the current administration?

Are this administration's actions in regards to the regulations and enforcement of said regulations any different than what happened in any previous administration?

Had a different candidate won the elections in 2008 is there any reason to expect we'd have different outcomes for the current predicament?

It is my understanding that the law was enacted as a reaction to the EXXON Valdez spill.  

and No and No.  

But that is not the point.  The point is that the fed is charged with doing a job, which it didn't do.  It does not matter which party is in charge, it would be my guess that the government would remain irresponsible and bumbling.  

NOAA had orders which did not happen.

[Bart Stewart]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gulf_oil_ ... s_response

[Blacksamwell]

NOAA had orders which did not happen.

How do we know this?

[rrichar911]

NOAA had orders which did not happen.

How do we know this?

Well, here is one of many ways we know.  

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opini ... 31189.html

Why didn't federal officials implement an oil spill clean up plan they've had on the books since 1994 as soon as possible after crude began pumping into the Gulf of Mexico following the explosion and sinking of BP's Deepwater Horizon drilling platform 53 miles south of Louisiana in the Gulf of Mexico?

The Mobile Register reports that Ron Gouget, who formerly managed the oil spill cleanup department of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, as well as a similar unit for the state of Louisiana, is criticizing the Obama White House's failure to act according to existing government plans in the event of a spill in the area now being deluged with thousands of barrels of crude oil every day.

[coolnice]

we have to face the fact that we draw our energy from dirty dangerous resources, and if we tap those resources on our shores and in our wilderness, and we don't pursue cleaner, sustainable energy, we are going to have catastrophic messes to clean up.