How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:03 am

oceans melting Greenland
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:57 pm

Psych,

I agree that basal melting of glaciers via ocean warming can be a major contributor to mass ice loss, although there is a debate and no consensus whether surface mass balance or basal melting is the dominant force. You are the first to show enough understanding of the climatic factors, to bring this up even though I chastized the alarmists for failing to discuss this part of the ice mass equation.

I have written two article that in part deal with Greenland melting via basal melting assuming the oceans were the dominant driver.

Read Will Greenland Begin Accumulating Ice in 2015 and Beyond. http://landscapesandcycles.net/Will-Gre ... yond-.html


And Why Vanishing Ice Is Likely All Natural? http://landscapesandcycles.net/-vanishi ... tural.html
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:25 am

JIm Steele wrote:And Why Vanishing Ice Is Likely All Natural?

Great Question.

Premised on the notion that there is zero AGW....which is premised on co2 not being a green house gas.

but I know: prove where you have ever denied it.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:50 am

Bobbo you need to first show the quotes and links proving your baseless accusations that I have ever denied CO2 was a greenhouse gas, otherwise you are proving once again you are just an ugly liar who repeats the same bogus crap ad nauseum!
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:46 pm

Jimbo: can't you think in any other way than the way you do?

Buy a dictionary and look up the word: premised.

Then tell us how any warming can "all natural" with AGW going on ALL THE TIME. Is that too subtle for you to parse out?
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:53 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Jimbo: can't you think in any other way than the way you do?


ROTFLMAO. Says the man who thinks we are all gonna a die due to rising CO2 and every aargument is premised on that blind belief.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Buy a dictionary and look up the word: premised.


Look up the words "stupid", "paranoid", "troll", and "liar".

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Then tell us how any warming can "all natural" with AGW going on ALL THE TIME. Is that too subtle for you to parse out?


Stupid logic argues that if a skeptic points out how natural climate dynamics can cause warming air temperatures or ice to melt, then the skeptic must not believe that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and thus it is justified to falsify the skeptics statements and fabricate comments the skeptic never uttered.

Stupid logic fails to understand the issue of climate sensitivity and the fact that natural dynamics can completely overwhelm any contribution from CO2, and that natural changes in the greenhouse gas, water vapor, has far greater impact.

Paranoid fools believe any statement, no matter how well supported, if it does not agree we are all going to die from rising CO2, then it must be fraudulent and designed to make the paranoid fool more vulnerable to the "undeniable" coming global catastrophe that he and past "end of the world" fanatics have been pointing out for centuries.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:40 am

Jimbo: after you look up what "premised" means.................then page back until you find "all."

Sensitivity is IRRELEVANT...if there is "any" AGW (ie: additional co2) THEN vanishing ice cannot be all natural. There is a component of the vanishing that is AGW.

Not only do you fail as a scientist, but you also fail as a student of simple English. Do you ever get laughed off stage?

EDIT: Just because I can feel your pain, here's a clue: a better phrasing of your defective argument would be: "Can the vanishing ice be accounted for entirely by natural causes?"--------and if we weren't currently in a cooling spell, the answer to that might more possibly be yes, BUT since we are warming and co2 is AGW===>its LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for any currently vanishing ice to be caused solely by natural causes....because climate is not currently driven solely by natural causes.

You can't be more simple.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:41 pm

Ever notice that ANY variation from a straight line increase in global temps is sufficient to send some people into a tizzy about science being wrong? It certainly illustrates their ignorance of the process.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:49 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Sensitivity is IRRELEVANT...if there is "any" AGW (ie: additional co2) THEN vanishing ice cannot be all natural.


Dietrich gives my reply

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:22 am

In addition to huge ice gains for Greenland, Arctic sea Ice has been increasing!

Just as I also predicted!

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:11 am

just did a google search for --- cruise the nor

got a million hits
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:42 pm

JIm Steele wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Sensitivity is IRRELEVANT...if there is "any" AGW (ie: additional co2) THEN vanishing ice cannot be all natural.


Dietrich gives my reply

Image


this is really interesting - it should have its own forum or website .
I'm actually going thru this almost every day .
his use of the word - malice - I am frequently thinking about malicious intent of intelligent Christians .


I assumed he was a Nazi and eugenics champion . turns out he was a devout Christian .
bottom line - he hated stupid people like me .

interesting that he was too stupid to realize going back to Germany would be slow tortuous suicide.
guess he had no concept of how evil - intelligent normal people really are .

have to point out this was written when he was in prison ??? that would have had an influence on his writing .
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 pm

Bonhoeffer is rather "famous." Should be on any short list of historical figures to know a little about.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:32 am

Jim Steele wrote:
The melt season is over and Arctic sea ice begins it recovery, while Greenland continues to record record increases in surface mass gains!

Image

In addition rumor has it Bonhoeffer is famous for having a pet eunuch named boobo that inspired his essays.

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:30 pm

How's the CTer today? Anything not stupid yet?
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:40 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:How's the CTer today? Anything not stupid yet?

It's bouncing up and down so hard, it can't even quote/post properly because of the shaking.
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:47 pm

Another day, and more unprecedented gains, as Greenland continues to record record increases in surface mass gains!
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:35 pm

Jim Steele wrote:
Jim Steele wrote:
The melt season is over and Arctic sea ice begins it recovery, while Greenland continues to record record increases in surface mass gains!

Image

In addition rumor has it Bonhoeffer is famous for having a pet eunuch named boobo that inspired his essays.

Image
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:23 am

Greenland Ice Gains: so stupid, even Snopes calls it false.

https://www.snopes.com/does-arctic-ice- ... te-change/
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:05 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Greenland Ice Gains: so stupid, even Snopes calls it false.
https://www.snopes.com/does-arctic-ice- ... te-change/


Snopes simply reveals they are a propaganda outfit that tells only half the story and will try to downplay the growth of ice on Greenland to protect their favored CO2 warming hypothesis. So typical of stupid parnoids, when there is ice loss its due to climate change, but when there is ice gain it is due to weather.

SNopes reported from the DMI
"Heavy snow and rain in winter with a relatively short and intermittent summer melt season have left the Greenland ice sheet with more ice than has been usual over the last twenty years — in fact we have to go back to the 1980s and 90s to see a year similar to this one in terms of snow fall and ice melt."


Then Snopes cherrypicks a decline in Greenland ice since just 2002. In the 1990s, scientists found no net loss of Greenland ice and thus no contribution to sea level. So typical of stupid parnoids, when there is ice loss its due to climate change, but when there is ice gain it is due to weather.

They did correctly report that loss of ice from glacial discharge must be compared to increases in surface ice to determine net change. That is something I wrote about earlier in this post, that knucklehead alarmists ignored. But when the math is done Greenland stillgained about 50 billion tons of ice this year.

Furthermore research has shown that the loss of Greenland ice between 2002 and 2014 was due to a trend of reduced cloudiness and resulting increased solar insolation, weather changes created by changes the North Atlantic Oscillation. Read Hofer (2017) Decreasing cloud cover drives the recent mass loss on the Greenland Ice Sheet.

The loss of Greenland ice has nothing to do with CO2. But typical of stupid parnoids, when there is ice loss its due to climate change, but when there is ice gain it is due to weather.

ROTFLMAO
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:50 am

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:10 pm

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:03 pm

Jim Steele wrote:.....when there is ice loss its due to climate change, but when there is ice gain it is due to weather....

Its actually BOTH....................... all the time. Its you who makes the artificial separation. You've got cherry pits in your loafers.................
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:12 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Its actually BOTH....................... all the time.


That is your belief but....

the changes in Greenland do not correlate with changes in CO2, suggesting an insignificant, if any, Co2 global warming effect.

You got cherry pits on the brain, allowing you to ignore all the scientific evidence that contradicts your paranoia
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:44 pm

Snopes.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:23 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Snopes.


Indeed! Snopes is a prime example of biased reporting while pretending to be "fact checking"
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:02 pm

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:02 pm

I am amazed how ignorant paranoid alarmists are regards the changes in Greenland's gains in surface mass (SMB). From 1960 to the 1990s Greenland's surface was gaining ice at a rate of about 40 Gigatons a year, a gain the contradicts CO2 predictions. It was only in the late 90s Greenland began to lose ice.

This loss coincided with a decline in cloud cover as a high pressure system set up over Greenland as a result of the North Atlantic oscillation. IN other words increased insolation not CO2 was the primary factor. Read the science here http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/6/e1700584

The greatest ice loss culminated in 2012. Although researchers show there was "a null contribution [to sea level] from the 1940s to the 2000s" they focus on the "recent contribution of GrIS to sea level change" as "unprecedented in the last century."

However now Greenland is gaining ice as shown in the DMI graphs in this thread, and it is approaching the same high rates seen in the 60s to 90s. Last year there was a 550 Gigaton accumulation of ice.

The century trend can be seen below in graph of surface mass changes from the Fettweis 2017 peer reviewed paper https://www.the-cryosphere.net/11/1015/ ... 5-2017.pdf

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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:28 pm

Ice sheets as large as Greenland's melted fast in a warming climate
Date: November 9, 2017
Source: Purdue University
Summary: New research shows that climate warming reduced the mass of the Cordilleran Ice Sheet by half in as little as 500 years, indicating the Greenland Ice Sheet could have a similar fate.

New research published in Science shows that climate warming reduced the mass of the Cordilleran Ice Sheet by half in as little as 500 years, indicating the Greenland Ice Sheet could have a similar fate.

The Cordilleran Ice Sheet covered large parts of North America during the Pleistocene -- or Last Ice Age -- and was similar in mass to the Greenland Ice Sheet. Previous research estimated that it covered much of western Canada as late as 12,500 years ago, but new data shows that large areas in the region were ice-free as early as 1,500 years earlier. This confirms that once ice sheets start to melt, they can do so very quickly.

The melting of the Cordilleran Ice Sheet likely caused about 20 feet of sea level rise and big changes in ocean temperature and circulation. Because cold water is denser than warm water, the water contained by ice sheets sinks when it melts, disrupting the "global conveyor belt" of ocean circulation and changing climate.

Researchers used geologic evidence and ice sheet models to construct a timeline of the Cordilleran's advance and retreat. They mapped and dated moraines throughout western Canada using beryllium-10, a rare isotope of beryllium that is often used as a proxy for solar intensity. Measurements were made in Purdue University's PRIME Lab, a research facility dedicated to accelerator mass spectrometry.


Continues... https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 224024.htm
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:03 pm

Interesting Gawd, They show glaciers melted at the end of the Ice Age and then speculate that Greenland could've too. Who would have thunk?

Their research had nothing to do with Greenland, but I guess you are just trying to connect

And melting glaciers despite low CO2, makes one think CO2 is not the climate driver
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:29 am

makes one think CO2 is not the climate driver /////.............in that case. Correct. Climate is multi-factorial.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:41 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Climate is multi-factorial.


And that is what I have always argued. And that's why arguing "we are all gonna die" based on a single factor is plain stupid.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Oh Jebus..........feel like you have descended to the third grade. Xouper level of attention span.

Single factors often come to the fore and "drive" what is multi-factorial.............in fact..........its the normal case to look for. All the factors combining for a chimeric average, then one or two or three (see whats relevant there?) factors become more dominant and drive the system to new norms.

AGW (co2) is driving the current climate change because all the other factors haven't changed.

So simple. Think about it. Ask your students.....................
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:51 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:AGW (co2) is driving the current climate change because all the other factors haven't changed.

So simple


Such a myopic simpleton. Many factors have an are changing. Therefore all your reasoning is based on a bogus belief.


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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:45 am

No................only one. Co2. As a self describe expert........you know this. So why the lie?????

If a rogue planet came into our solar system and shifted our orbit........then our proximity to the Sun would be the primary driver. If the Sun started putting out more heat..........that might become our climate's primary driver.

But its co2. So simple. Only someone less than a simpleton will fail to grasp the concept.
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby Jim Steele » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:56 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:No................only one. Co2


ROTFLMAO. What a schizophrenic maroon,

you flip between "Climate change has many factors" to only one drives change. ROTFLMAO
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Re: How much ice will Greenland gain this year?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:41 am

Jim Steele wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:No................only one. Co2


ROTFLMAO. What a schizophrenic maroon,

you flip between "Climate change has many factors" to only one drives change. ROTFLMAO

As clearly set forth above, there is no inconsistency in the sentence.

Is your understanding of basic English, Logic, and Science this compartmentalized or are you only acting the fool?

Gorgeous, Xouper...You. I'll respond when you have anything rational to add.
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