The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Darren Wilshak » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:54 pm

Clueless pair of Nazi trolls and all that keeps happening again and again to them is this:

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:59 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:Not to do the job for VFX but maybe this will save him the trouble?

https://books.google.ca/books?id=U8-PDg ... ng&f=false
Fail. Another Hans Rule 3 problem:
3. think before you type.
I asked for where at the IMT Ludwig Fischer "stated ... that Polish Jews were killed in large numbers. These massacres were performed by means of steam ..." As an example, according to VFX, of "lobstering" influencing the tribunal.

You linked to a 1944 UNWCC document stating "Polish charges against German war criminals" including Frank, Fischer and others. This particular charge involved the camp at Treblinka. Nowhere in the document is Fischer quoted testifying, as he could not have as he was not in Allied custody at the time. And the sheet is a list of charges and supporting narrative developed by the Polish government (ring a bell?).

I didn't ask you to find the words Fischer and steam on the same page.

Try again. Citation for when at the IMT, as VFX claims, or when he was in Polish custody for that matter, Fischer testified as VFX says he did.
Jeffk, re: your earlier look at the verbiage of 3311-PS, I should have mentioned in this post to check the text of the UNWCC 1944 summary of Polish government charges against 3311-PS. I think you'll find the comparison both interesting and a bit of a nostalgia trip.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:22 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:Image
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha LOL... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:31 pm

Nessie wrote:The "lobster story" is a denier invention. No witness said people were steamed like lobster. It is fake news to claim there were reports at the time of people steamed like lobsters.

What a few reports and some non witnesses said was that it was thought the gas used was steam. That a gas was used is accurate and not knowing what type of gas is an understandable error by those who were not actually there and saw what was happening in detail.
Does it matter if one is steamed like a lobster or a crab? The reports of people being steamed to death while absurd is very much true and acted upon by the US prosecutors. I do not think they would compare people to lobsters as I am sure lobsters are far more delicious as are the crabs depending on what kind you are steaming of course.
The Nurember charge 6 is steam in "steam filled chambers"
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:31 pm

To help montgomery with his vision-quest, I would like to offer another 1940s eyewitness to Nazi mass murder actions: Kazimierz Sakowicz. Sakowicz will necessarily, of course, bring up other evidence, which we can also discuss.

[For anyone with a JSTOR account, here's the link: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1nq2fb. There's a maybe dodgy link at a Virginia Tech website - vt dot instructure dot com slash courses - that allows you to download a PDF.]
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Cadmusteeth » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:32 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:Well, this is sparse.
.... and then blew up.

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:49 pm

VFX wrote:
Nessie wrote:The "lobster story" is a denier invention. No witness said people were steamed like lobster. It is fake news to claim there were reports at the time of people steamed like lobsters.

What a few reports and some non witnesses said was that it was thought the gas used was steam. That a gas was used is accurate and not knowing what type of gas is an understandable error by those who were not actually there and saw what was happening in detail.
Does it matter if one is steamed like a lobster or a crab? The reports of people being steamed to death while absurd is very much true and acted upon by the US prosecutors. I do not think they would compare people to lobsters as I am sure lobsters are far more delicious as are the crabs depending on what kind you are steaming of course.
The Nurember charge 6 is steam in < snip >
No matter how many times you post this - bordering now on spamming - you don't change the facts that
1) the IMT's judgment did not accept the claim of steam chambers but concluded that "all who were not fit to work were destroyed in gas chambers and their bodies burnt. Certain concentration camps such as Treblinka and Auschwitz were set aside for this main purpose."
2) you've been unable to make a single informed post explaining the earliest testimonies about steam chambers at Treblinka
3) your "delicious lobster" reveries are obnoxious and reveal a callous bigotry
4) you continue to betray your ignorance of judicial processes - in fact, whether to accept or reject prosecution charges is the point
5) the charge that included "steam" as a murder means at Treblinka came from the Polish government - based on earlier reports that contained some erroneous details that subsequent testimonies and reports cleared up
6) the Polish charge also mentioned gas and, also erroneously, "electric current" ("hitherto unknown, new methods, gas and steam chambers as well as electric current")

(Note: if Nessie meant above that there was no one who was in the Treblinka camp who testified about steam, that's not right - not clear from the post - to be clear, I know of 3 Treblinka witnesses who mentioned steam as the killing agent; Nessie is right, of course, that there were no references to lobsters and on the larger point that "That a gas was used is accurate and not knowing what type of gas is an understandable error" even by some who "were there," as I've explained earlier. I think the "like lobsters" comes from CW Porter, btw.)
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:03 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote: .... and then blew up.
Yup. The good Justice did ask about using atomic bombs on people.
At Nuremberg it was mentioned that a small town was built near Auschwitz that could hold 20 000 prisoners. A nuclear device was set off that obliterated them all in an instant. Here is the testimony at the court. There is no evidence except to the contrary that Germans and Dr Heisenberg had developed nuclear chain reactions.
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No matter how many times you post this - bordering now on spamming - you don't change the facts that
1) the IMT's judgment did not accept the claim of steam chambers but concluded that "all who were not fit to work were destroyed in gas chambers and their bodies burnt. Certain concentration camps such as Treblinka and Auschwitz were set aside for this main purpose."
They changed their story alright to regain their credibility. Matter of expediency only and nothing to do with legal procedures.
Last edited by VFX on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:05 pm

Hey VFX you're very busy posting stuff we've already been over and pretending it's new - but for some reason you're shy about replying to this request:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:Dr Fischer was the District Governor of Warsaw district stated in his testimony that Polish Jews were killed in large numbers. These massacres were performed by means of steam
Citation please.
Cough it up, big boy.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:07 pm

VFX wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote: .... and then blew up.
Yup. The good Justice did ask about using atomic bombs on people.
At Nuremberg it was mentioned that a small town was built near Auschwitz that could hold 20 000 prisoners. A nuclear device was set off that obliterated them all in an instant. Here is the testimony at the court. There is no evidence except to the contrary that Germans and Dr Heisenberg had developed nuclear chain reactions.
Image
Wasn't this thread about witnesses?

Could you also be so kind as to post reference information (volume and page) for the Speer exchange at the IMT? Thanks, as always.

You see, your fingers slipped and you cut off the end of the discussion:
SPEER: No, and I consider it utterly improbable. If we had had such a weapon under preparation, I should have known about it. But we did not have such a weapon. It is clear that in chemical warfare attempts were made on both sides to carry out research on all the weapons one could think of, because one did not know which party would start chemical warfare first.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in the war?

SPEER: That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war. From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the front. I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people, were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without military forces, would guarantee victory. In this belief lies the secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although common sense told them that the war was over. They believed that within the near future this new weapon would arrive. I wrote to Hitler about it and also tried in different speeches, even before Goebbels' propaganda leaders, to work against this belief. Both Hitler and Goebbels told me, however, that this was no propaganda of theirs but that it was a belief which had grown up amongst the people. Only in the dock here in Nuremberg, I was told by Fritzsche that this propaganda was spread systematically among the people through some channels or other, and that SS Standartenfuehrer Berg was responsible for it. Many things have become clear to me since, because this man Berg, as a representative of the Ministry of Propaganda, had often taken part in meetings, in big sessions of my Ministry, as he was writing articles about these sessions. There he heard of our future plans and then used this knowledge to tell the people about them with more imagination than truth.
Also, where in the judgment did the tribunal make a finding with regard to this "improbability"?
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:10 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Hey VFX you're very busy posting stuff we've already been over and pretending it's new - but for some reason you're shy about replying to this request:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:Dr Fischer was the District Governor of Warsaw district stated in his testimony that Polish Jews were killed in large numbers. These massacres were performed by means of steam
Citation please.
Cough it up, big boy.
Time to refresh peoples minds on the absurdity of the eyewitnesses or lack of them. Please deal with the atomic bomb now thank you. The steaming claim was a fact but it was made. As it didn't happen there were no credible witnesses so that does not matter. Hans Frank dangled as did many others who probably could have given proper evidence in a real hearing not this dummy trial.
The NMT got this crap from somewhere unless the prosecution invented it. It does not matter who the witnesses are except that all of them including the gassing ones are total bogus. The stupid claims like these are just brushed aside to cater for Taubin and the other liewitnesses.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Cadmusteeth » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote: .... and then blew up.
Yup. The good Justice did ask about using atomic bombs on people.
At Nuremberg it was mentioned that a small town was built near Auschwitz that could hold 20 000 prisoners. A nuclear device was set off that obliterated them all in an instant. Here is the testimony at the court. There is no evidence except to the contrary that Germans and Dr Heisenberg had developed nuclear chain reactions.
Image
Wasn't this thread about witnesses?

Could you also be so kind as to post reference information (volume and page) for the Speer exchange at the IMT? Thanks, as always.

You see, your fingers slipped and you cut off the end of the discussion:
SPEER: No, and I consider it utterly improbable. If we had had such a weapon under preparation, I should have known about it. But we did not have such a weapon. It is clear that in chemical warfare attempts were made on both sides to carry out research on all the weapons one could think of, because one did not know which party would start chemical warfare first.

MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in the war?

SPEER: That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war. From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the front. I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people, were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without military forces, would guarantee victory. In this belief lies the secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although common sense told them that the war was over. They believed that within the near future this new weapon would arrive. I wrote to Hitler about it and also tried in different speeches, even before Goebbels' propaganda leaders, to work against this belief. Both Hitler and Goebbels told me, however, that this was no propaganda of theirs but that it was a belief which had grown up amongst the people. Only in the dock here in Nuremberg, I was told by Fritzsche that this propaganda was spread systematically among the people through some channels or other, and that SS Standartenfuehrer Berg was responsible for it. Many things have become clear to me since, because this man Berg, as a representative of the Ministry of Propaganda, had often taken part in meetings, in big sessions of my Ministry, as he was writing articles about these sessions. There he heard of our future plans and then used this knowledge to tell the people about them with more imagination than truth.
Also, where in the judgment did the tribunal make a finding with regard to this "improbability"?
Funny how he took my comment out of context.

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:13 pm

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Hey VFX you're very busy posting stuff we've already been over and pretending it's new - but for some reason you're shy about replying to this request:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote:Dr Fischer was the District Governor of Warsaw district stated in his testimony that Polish Jews were killed in large numbers. These massacres were performed by means of steam
Citation please.
Cough it up, big boy.
Time to refresh peoples minds on the absurdity of the eyewitnesses or lack of them. Please deal with the atomic bomb now thank you. The steaming claim was a fact but it was made. As it didn't happen there were no credible witnesses so that does not matter. Hans Frank dangled as did many others who probably could have given proper evidence in a real hearing not this dummy trial.
Your post is not responsive to what I asked you.

And I already dealt with the Speer questioning. As I did a couple weeks ago, also.

I asked you to give a citation for your claim:
At the Nuremberg trials, he was found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity and was executed.. No doubt the Lobstering would have influenced the Judges.
Dr Fischer was the District Governor of Warsaw district stated in his testimony that Polish Jews were killed in large numbers. These massacres were performed by means of steam
Is the reason that you can't provide a reference for this claim because you just made it up?
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:16 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:Funny how he took my comment out of context.
This is one of his fave outrages - he pops it in whenever he feels like it, say here, in a thread on eyewitnesses. He thinks that if he presents part of the exchange he's proven something.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:41 pm

Hey!!!! Speer was a denier....in German atomic bombs wiping out villages.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:48 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Hey!!!! Speer was a denier....in German atomic bombs wiping out villages.
The Justice is asking Speer if he had heard about the nuclear device. Not sure where the Justice got that from to be honest at the moment. The point here is that rumours, myth and alleged fact meld into one great fusion of rubbish.
If the Reich has atomic weapons they would not have tested them at Auschwitz but more like on London and Moscow.
Where is the eye witness to a nuclear weapon prior to the Trinity test.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:56 pm

So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:58 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:So the revisionist "alternative" method you keep suggesting goes like this - ignore sources, stay away from archives, refuse to address research conclusions, and go nah-nah-nah to counter-arguments?
And make {!#%@} up in a pinch.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:00 pm

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Hey!!!! Speer was a denier....in German atomic bombs wiping out villages.
The Justice is asking Speer if he had heard about the nuclear device. Not sure where the Justice got that from to be honest at the moment. The point here is that rumours, myth and alleged fact meld into one great fusion of rubbish.
If the Reich has atomic weapons they would not have tested them at Auschwitz but more like on London and Moscow.
Where is the eye witness to a nuclear weapon prior to the Trinity test.
And Speer adamantly denied it. Note that the infamous allied torturers never forced Speer to fess up to obliterating a village full of Jews with an atomic bomb.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by montgomery » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:Not to do the job for VFX but maybe this will save him the trouble?

https://books.google.ca/books?id=U8-PDg ... ng&f=false
Fail. Another Hans Rule 3 problem:
3. think before you type.
I asked for where at the IMT Ludwig Fischer "stated ... that Polish Jews were killed in large numbers. These massacres were performed by means of steam ..." As an example, according to VFX, of "lobstering" influencing the tribunal.

You linked to a 1944 UNWCC document stating "Polish charges against German war criminals" including Frank, Fischer and others. This particular charge involved the camp at Treblinka. Nowhere in the document is Fischer quoted testifying, as he could not have as he was not in Allied custody at the time. And the sheet is a list of charges and supporting narrative developed by the Polish government (ring a bell?).

I didn't ask you to find the words Fischer and steam on the same page.

Try again. Citation for when at the IMT, as VFX claims, or when he was in Polish custody for that matter, Fischer testified as VFX says he did.
You're too wrapped on what you want, while others aren't specifically interested in your wants. What I posted will do to show that the steaming lobster idea wasn't invented by a denier or a skeptic.

Trying to say a denier invented the idea is getting pretty desperate s&m but we'll continue for a while because it's getting to be quite a bit of fun. I never imagined that it all could be proven so easily to be just a fake!

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by montgomery » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:06 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:To help montgomery with his vision-quest, I would like to offer another 1940s eyewitness to Nazi mass murder actions: Kazimierz Sakowicz. Sakowicz will necessarily, of course, bring up other evidence, which we can also discuss.

[For anyone with a JSTOR account, here's the link: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1nq2fb. There's a maybe dodgy link at a Virginia Tech website - vt dot instructure dot com slash courses - that allows you to download a PDF.]
I think I won't bother with Kazimierz because you are already making excuses for other evidence he provided, which was probably bogus. Why else would you make an excuse for what else he said?

Maybe you should just let doctor Terry handle this stuff. He knows MY rules.

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:12 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
Does that testimony make one iota of a difference one way or another to the fact that people were claimed to be Crustaceans. To us it makes no difference if the la Lobster claim was mickey mouse or his brother Ricky Rodent: it was made, it went public and was put to a Judge or Judges and no doubt influenced the legal proceedings. From memory one offence was dealt with by hanging and the other by shooting. Don't quote me on this but think of the poor executioner: "which comes first the hanging or the shooting"?
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by montgomery » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:14 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Hey!!!! Speer was a denier....in German atomic bombs wiping out villages.
The Justice is asking Speer if he had heard about the nuclear device. Not sure where the Justice got that from to be honest at the moment. The point here is that rumours, myth and alleged fact meld into one great fusion of rubbish.
If the Reich has atomic weapons they would not have tested them at Auschwitz but more like on London and Moscow.
Where is the eye witness to a nuclear weapon prior to the Trinity test.
And Speer adamantly denied it. Note that the infamous allied torturers never forced Speer to fess up to obliterating a village full of Jews with an atomic bomb.
Some of it was just toooo over the top, even though simple stupid people who were H.P.'ers of the time still tried to promote it. Go ahead and blame the deniers if it works for you. But the steaming lobsters thingy was just valid enough to make people believe it, and they did.

Oh, and could you ask your friend Darren to stop besmirching what's left of the h. legend with his color cartoons? Their only purpose is to waste cyberspace and show what an immature as- he is.

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:23 pm

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
Does that testimony make one iota of a difference one way or another to the fact that people were claimed to be Crustaceans. To us it makes no difference if the la Lobster claim was mickey mouse or his brother Ricky Rodent: it was made, it went public and was put to a Judge or Judges and no doubt influenced the legal proceedings. From memory one offence was dealt with by hanging and the other by shooting. Don't quote me on this but think of the poor executioner: "which comes first the hanging or the shooting"?
It makes a difference that you made it up. Or Carlos Porter did.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by VFX » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:33 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
Does that testimony make one iota of a difference one way or another to the fact that people were claimed to be Crustaceans. To us it makes no difference if the la Lobster claim was mickey mouse or his brother Ricky Rodent: it was made, it went public and was put to a Judge or Judges and no doubt influenced the legal proceedings. From memory one offence was dealt with by hanging and the other by shooting. Don't quote me on this but think of the poor executioner: "which comes first the hanging or the shooting"?
It makes a difference that you made it up. Or Carlos Porter did.
This is definately not made up except by the NMT. Its OK if you state they are bogus we know that as well.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by montgomery » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:58 pm

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
Does that testimony make one iota of a difference one way or another to the fact that people were claimed to be Crustaceans. To us it makes no difference if the la Lobster claim was mickey mouse or his brother Ricky Rodent: it was made, it went public and was put to a Judge or Judges and no doubt influenced the legal proceedings. From memory one offence was dealt with by hanging and the other by shooting. Don't quote me on this but think of the poor executioner: "which comes first the hanging or the shooting"?
It makes a difference that you made it up. Or Carlos Porter did.
This is definately not made up except by the NMT. Its OK if you state they are bogus we know that as well.
Image
They all know very well it's not made up by deniers but they've been caught with their pants down steaming innocent seafood. Those clowns need to call in Darren to humiliate us with his very, very hurtful color cartoons. Or how about turn this thread into a spam thread and then ask to have it locked? :oops:

Pathetic bogus fake!

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:07 am

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
Does that testimony make one iota of a difference one way or another to the fact that people were claimed to be Crustaceans. To us it makes no difference if the la Lobster claim was mickey mouse or his brother Ricky Rodent: it was made, it went public and was put to a Judge or Judges and no doubt influenced the legal proceedings. From memory one offence was dealt with by hanging and the other by shooting. Don't quote me on this but think of the poor executioner: "which comes first the hanging or the shooting"?
It makes a difference that you made it up. Or Carlos Porter did.
This is definately not made up except by the NMT. Its OK if you state they are bogus we know that as well.
Image
I’m talking about lobster steaming.

Also, why do you only show part of the document? I posted the whole thing. BTW, it mentions gas chambers.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:08 am

montgomery wrote:
VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
Does that testimony make one iota of a difference one way or another to the fact that people were claimed to be Crustaceans. To us it makes no difference if the la Lobster claim was mickey mouse or his brother Ricky Rodent: it was made, it went public and was put to a Judge or Judges and no doubt influenced the legal proceedings. From memory one offence was dealt with by hanging and the other by shooting. Don't quote me on this but think of the poor executioner: "which comes first the hanging or the shooting"?
It makes a difference that you made it up. Or Carlos Porter did.
This is definately not made up except by the NMT. Its OK if you state they are bogus we know that as well.
Image
They all know very well it's not made up by deniers but they've been caught with their pants down steaming innocent seafood. Those clowns need to call in Darren to humiliate us with his very, very hurtful color cartoons. Or how about turn this thread into a spam thread and then ask to have it locked? :oops:

Pathetic bogus fake!
You mean VFX only posting a portion of a document that also mentions gas chambers?
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:08 am

Monty keeps repeating his inane mantra and posting that charging sheet as proof of deception. The charging sheet as above contains two errors:

1) Defendant Frank was involved in the setting up of Treblinka.

2) Jews were murdered in "steam chambers".

Monty, rather than concluding that this was a sloppy effort on the part of the prosecution, jumps to the conclusion that this was intentional deception, and offers no proof whatever that it was.

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:34 am

montgomery wrote:You're too wrapped on what you want, while others aren't specifically interested in your wants.
You're full of {!#%@}. I asked for a specific citation, you thought you'd provided it. You didn't.
montgomery wrote:What I posted will do to show that the steaming lobster idea wasn't invented by a denier or a skeptic.
You posted an earlier version of something already posted and well known. Great job, ace.
montgomery wrote:Trying to say a denier invented the idea is getting pretty desperate s&m but we'll continue for a while because it's getting to be quite a bit of fun. I never imagined that it all could be proven so easily to be just a fake!
Of course, I never said that deniers invented testimonies about steam; I said that they misused the testimonies to create a distorted picture of what was generally known by the war's end and what the IMT judgment said.

Your posts often don't say anything except that you don't know what you're talking about. Discussing history with you is like trying to teach a hyperactive 4-year-old to read, er, Tristram Shandy.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:35 am

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:To help montgomery with his vision-quest, I would like to offer another 1940s eyewitness to Nazi mass murder actions: Kazimierz Sakowicz. Sakowicz will necessarily, of course, bring up other evidence, which we can also discuss.

[For anyone with a JSTOR account, here's the link: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1nq2fb. There's a maybe dodgy link at a Virginia Tech website - vt dot instructure dot com slash courses - that allows you to download a PDF.]
I think I won't bother with Kazimierz because you are already making excuses for other evidence he provided, which was probably bogus. Why else would you make an excuse for what else he said?
What excuse am I supposed to have made for Sakowicz's testimony?

Another inartful dodge, btw. I see you're chickening out on another witness.
montgomery wrote:Maybe you should just let doctor Terry handle this stuff. He knows MY rules.
I am sure he cares exactly as much as I do about YOUR rules.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:37 am

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
Does that testimony make one iota of a difference one way or another
The difference it makes - try sounding out the words here - is that it shows you to be a blatant and rather stupid liar.
VFX wrote:To us it makes no difference if the la Lobster claim was mickey mouse or his brother Ricky Rodent
Of course not, you're know-nothings. And liars. You tried to claim, to support your case, that Fischer gave a testimony which he didn't give. You got caught, as you always do.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:38 am

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:So you made it up that Fischer testified at the IMT about steam chambers! Awesome!
Does that testimony make one iota of a difference one way or another to the fact that people were claimed to be Crustaceans. To us it makes no difference if the la Lobster claim was mickey mouse or his brother Ricky Rodent: it was made, it went public and was put to a Judge or Judges and no doubt influenced the legal proceedings. From memory one offence was dealt with by hanging and the other by shooting. Don't quote me on this but think of the poor executioner: "which comes first the hanging or the shooting"?
It makes a difference that you made it up. Or Carlos Porter did.
This is definately not made up except by the NMT. Its OK if you state they are bogus we know that as well.
Image
Fail. What you made up was Fischer's supposed IMT testimony about the murder method.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:45 am

Monty:
This is definately not made up except by the NMT.

Classic: We're talking IMT here, narischkopf. :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:50 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Monty:
This is definately not made up except by the NMT.

Classic: We're talking IMT here, narischkopf. :roll: :roll: :roll:
LOL, they really are stumbling about, yeah.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:59 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:Monty:
This is definately not made up except by the NMT.

Classic: We're talking IMT here, narischkopf. :roll: :roll: :roll:
LOL, they really are stumbling about, yeah.
Like Mussfeldt yesterday..."I'll accept him as the subject witness.... oops, can't read his testimony." :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:15 am

What spooked the troll guy about Sakowicz, do you think? I mean, I know why I wouldn't want to discuss him if I were montgomery, but what actually freaked him?
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:27 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:What spooked the troll guy about Sakowicz, do you think? I mean, I know why I wouldn't want to discuss him if I were montgomery, but what actually freaked him?
"My rules" violation.... :mrgreen:

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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:40 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Monty:
This is definately not made up except by the NMT.

Classic: We're talking IMT here, narischkopf. :roll: :roll: :roll:
In fairness to montgomery, he picked this up from VFX, who first made this goof.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Quest for Eye Witnesses to the Holocaust.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:44 am

LOL well Sackowicz remains:

1) Winer
Montgomery completely screwed up his attempt to substitute a bowdlerized version of Winer's testimony, and Hans caught out each of the errors montgomery made when he popped off. So Winer remains an open discussion point - on which VFX hasn't chimed in and montgomery has retreated into embarrassed silence.

2) Direct-eyewitness accounts to lobster steaming gas ovens of the 40's and 50's to which this pair are referring
Montgomery at last admitted that he is clueless ("I have no idea") and VFX finally, after erroneously insisting that the direct eyewitnesses were the Polish underground (!), acknowledged that he doesn't know or care about any of it and is willing to post fabrications. So, with both jokers unable and unwilling to answer Nick, I guess we've reached the end on this one.

3) Sakowicz
Montgomery's first response was to try to find a pretext for chickening out, but, nah, Sakowicz's testimony is still open for discussion.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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