a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by VFX » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:57 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
If you attended them and are stuck with your current belief systems I hardly call them credible.
I don't have beliefs, I have considered opinions based on facts. If you do further your studies then I suggest you do not ask Nessie for help nor anyone here. I could suggest RODOH and Been-There, who has cool considered opinions based on reflective analysis. Even Friedrich could help you. Charles could be a little radical, but good for authentic modern opinions on how some Nazis consider antworten auf die jüdische Frage.
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:01 am

Reaktori wrote:I guess I could chime in to recollect how I was taught about the Holocaust in middle school (from a Finnish perspective): It covered the rise of the Nazis, and how Jews gradually lost their civil rights, but our only actual lesson on the holocaust involved only the camp layout and overview of Auschwitz-Birkenau. Definitely nothing about Einsatzgruppen or the Aktion Reinhardt camps.

There was literally nothing about it in High School either.
I do not recall being taught anything about the Holocaust in US high school in the 1960s - my father told me about the mass murder of the Jews at some point. I took a course in modern German history in college and, again, if we dealt with the Holocaust, which I doubt, I don't recall it.
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:11 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Other than Dr. Terry I don't conscider anyone here as an authorotive holocaust studies figure. But people here are at the very least capble of distinguishing between real historigraphy and mouth-to-ear myths.
Sergey Romanov has done a lot of research in archives and knows this material in detail; ditto Roberto Muehlenkamp, although he's not posted here in quite a while. Whilst neither is a traditional academic, I consider both to be reliable and strong in various aspects of this history. None of which addresses this member's silly adolescent and knee-jerk problems with "authorities."
At the risk of stepping on toes, I consider the HC blog TEAM as authoritative. It's much too broad a subject, methinks, for one individual to be seen as "the authority"

As to our little group of church mice here, we're, as NT said, amateurs certainly, some might maybe considered "journeymen"... but no way "authorities". I certainly would never describe myself as either of the latter.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:13 am

I'm here for the :gb:
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:16 am

VFX:
I don't have beliefs,
Yeah you do.
I have considered opinions based on facts.
No you don’t.
I could suggest RODOH and Been-There, who has cool considered opinions based on reflective analysis.
:rotfl:

If I need suggestions on the proper use of “Holy moly!”,
creating enormous walls of text without actually saying anything, the pointless posting of emojis or being a pompous prick I know who I will ring.
Even Friedrich could help you.
I think I just threw up in my mouth.

Fritz is a repulsive antisemite who befouls the very air he breathes. The world will be a cleaner place on the day the universe gets tired of his ranting and punches his time card.
Charles could be a little radical, but good for authentic modern opinions on how some Nazis consider antworten auf die jüdische Frage.
Charles is second only to Fritz in being a loathsome dirtbag, the difference is he lacks Berg’s charm.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:17 am

scrmbldggs wrote:I'm here for the :gb:
We should start a micro brewery: Schwein Bros. :mrgreen:

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:18 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote: I do not recall being taught anything about the Holocaust in US high school in the 1960s - my father told me about the mass murder of the Jews at some point. I took a course in modern German history in college and, again, if we dealt with the Holocaust, which I doubt, I don't recall it.
That was also my experience though we did touch on it in the classes I took on Nazi Germany.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:22 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Other than Dr. Terry I don't conscider anyone here as an authorotive holocaust studies figure. But people here are at the very least capble of distinguishing between real historigraphy and mouth-to-ear myths.
Sergey Romanov has done a lot of research in archives and knows this material in detail; ditto Roberto Muehlenkamp, although he's not posted here in quite a while. Whilst neither is a traditional academic, I consider both to be reliable and strong in various aspects of this history. None of which addresses this member's silly adolescent and knee-jerk problems with "authorities."
At the risk of stepping on toes, I consider the HC blog TEAM as authoritative. It's much too broad a subject, methinks, for one individual to be seen as "the authority"

As to our little group of church mice here, we're, as NT said, amateurs certainly, some might maybe considered "journeymen"... but no way "authorities". I certainly would never describe myself as either of the latter.
Yes, agree, and Hans Metzner, too, I should have mentioned him, brain fade.

I'm like you in that. Personally, I am ABD in history - but my work was in American history. So I have graduate coursework in historical methods as well as American history but zero graduate-level courses in modern European history. I do not read German, Polish, Yiddish, or Russian; I do not work in archives. I'm interested, like others here, in the topic and the painful history. That's all.
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:23 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:I'm here for the :gb:
We should start a micro brewery: Schwein Bros. :mrgreen:
I'm in! :ahoy:
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:23 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:If I need suggestions on the proper use of “Holy moly!”,
creating enormous walls of text without actually saying anything, the pointless posting of emojis or being a pompous prick I know who I will ring.
You forgot plagiarizing and using fabricated evidence.
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:27 am

I posted this in 2015 - dated (e.g., I think Texas now tests social studies) but relevant:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Here is an example of a recent flap over the Texas history curriculum, a protest against the McGraw-Hill textbook which, in conformance with Texas's "celebrate America" orientation, in one instance described how millions of "workers" came from Africa to staff plantations in the South. Ironically, with regard to the Holocaust, Texas official guidance to teachers has them making use of USHMM resources, which are generally quite good. Here's an advocacy article on how the TX curriculum and support for it were developed.

US education is by now nearly fully standards driven, but, despite common core, curriculum is decided by states (and districts). A dozen states have Holocaust education commissions of some sort, whilst about half the states include the Holocaust explicitly in their state curriculum standards. Only about half a dozen states require instruction to cover the Holocaust - and just two have extensive guidelines (New Jersey and Florida - as a result, the Florida guide is picked up for use by other states, e.g., Kentucky). That said, most students will probably have some, not much, exposure to the Holocaust during their high school years. Courses focusing on the Holocaust (e.g., Facing History and Ourselves) are rare; the Holocaust is taught as part of world history or American history, usually during the WWII topic.

I've read estimates that a student will have up to a full week's study of the Holocaust during grades 6-12 (and quantification that this comes to 20+ hours); that's overstating it, judging from curriculum guides and textbook contents (which teachers often follow - I'm using "textbooks" to cover print and online content). A few years ago I surveyed a few middle and high school textbooks and found that they contained an average of 20 pages on the Holocaust (broadly conceived to include Nazi racial policies in the '30s and so on) in the seven book sequence making up grades 6-12—or less than one-half of one percent of the total pages. I agree with those who estimate that a student will have about a week total Holocaust-related instruction days, but, with each day having a 30- to 45-minute period of instruction for social studies, I doubt most students spend more than 4 or so hours on the Holocaust, class time. The average is one period, or about 45 minutes, per year for coverage of the Holocaust, broadly conceived and blended in with other coverage of WWII (and the 1930s). A third of the "Holocaust days" will be in 10th grade when students will read text, if they bother, the equivalent length of maybe two pages of this discussion subforum on the Holocaust.

The coverage is pretty much black and white, and intentionalist - and, as with the rest of the curriculum, opportunities for critical examination are downplayed. A student may encounter factually accurate statements but will be hard pressed, based on the textbooks, to understand why's and larger patterns. Half a dozen years or so, when I examined the textbooks, I concluded this, which is mostly recycled from posts I made then: During the grades 6-12, students will, in the books I surveyed, encounter Anne Frank and Babi Yar each on two occasions; read three times about Auschwitz - on each occasion in a sentence or two or three; learn that Slavs, Gypsies, and the disabled were among the victims of the Nazis; and read the name Treblinka in passing as a death camp. They will learn that 6 million Jews were murdered by shootings, gassings, starvation, and labor.

Students will not, however, “learn,” as denier tracts would suggest they would, that 6 million Jews were gassed, that 4 million people died at Auschwitz, that victims’ bodies were used to manufacture soap and make lampshades, or that toddlers watched Hitler kill inmates in the KLs.

But neither will students learn about the Kommissarbefehl, murders of Red Army POWs or other war crimes (reprisals, etc.), the workings of the gas chambers, the contents of the EG operational situation reports, the differences between AR camps and Auschwitz (they won’t, in fact, learn about AR camps), the various uses of the camps making up the Auschwitz complex, Dora, the T4 or 14f13 programs, the Warsaw Ghetto revolt, the nature of Mengele’s medical experiments, or the debate between intentionalists and functionalists, although the coverage in each book has a distinct intentionalist implication. Readers will likely conclude that Bergen-Belsen and Dachau were death camps, that the Wannsee conference ordered the construction of gas chambers, that the events were neatly plotted out, that prussic acid gas poured from special wall vents in gas chambers at the death camps, and that the Third Reich attempted to exterminate all homosexuals.

I can't recall but I think Goebbels will receive mention. The names Himmler, Heydrich, Eichmann, and Göring, however, will not be encountered, at least if teachers rely on the textbooks I surveyed. Let alone Frank, Globocnik, Seyss-Inquart, Dannecker, Höss, Greiser, Lohse, Ohlendorf, Bach-Zelewksi, Wolff, Rosenberg. And so on. And so on.

In all this, students will get into a lot about prejudice, racism, totalitarianism, and intolerance without strong historical grounding.

Students will read more about Allied responses and the liberation of the camps than they will about the twisted road to mass murder, the structure of the mass murder program, and the actions and programs themselves.

Compared to what Texas is doing with slavery, what's taught about the Holocaust in middle grades and high school seems better but, like everything else in the "social studies" curriculum, inadequate. Social studies are generally not tested like math, literacy, and now science - and, with the advent of common core, social studies instruction claims less attention and less class time than in the past. In the early grades, social studies seems to be almost disappearing. Publishers are reluctant to invest so much as they used to in the area, which may be a (somewhat) good thing, as interested teachers work up their own units, relying on the USHMM, FCIT, and other materials. The Holocaust competes, thus, not just with IM, Twitter, Drake and Taylor Swift, basketball, and the Kardashians but also with the many other topics which standards requirements force them to cover (mention?). The problems here are general, not, as deniers try having it, Holocaust specific.
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:32 am

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
If you attended them and are stuck with your current belief systems I hardly call them credible.
I don't have beliefs, I have considered opinions based on facts. If you do further your studies then I suggest you do not ask Nessie for help nor anyone here. I could suggest RODOH and Been-There, who has cool considered opinions based on reflective analysis. Even Friedrich could help you. Charles could be a little radical, but good for authentic modern opinions on how some Nazis consider antworten auf die jüdische Frage.
Comedy gold struck again:

Been_There as the intellectual leader....

Berg as Intake offizier....

Traynor as racial commissar...

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:33 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Been_There as the intellectual leader....
ROFL
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:37 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:Been_There as the intellectual leader....
ROFL
Wellll, the Fuhrer wasn't exactly an A+ student either.... :mrgreen:

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:42 am

Balsamo wrote:At this point, it is maybe better for me - who don't know {!#%@} about the education in the US - to briefly present how the Shoah is taught in France. < snip >
Thanks for this. Interesting comparison US vs France (Europe?). I am curious about Germany . . .
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:51 am

Yep, been-there before... :D
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:43 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Students will not, however, “learn,” as denier tracts would suggest they would, that 6 million Jews were gassed, that 4 million people died at Auschwitz, that victims’ bodies were used to manufacture soap and make lampshades, or that toddlers watched Hitler kill inmates in the KLs.
The holocaust teaching declines because it's a quiet expression of embarrassment by educated people because of the lampshades and the soap. Ask any dumb American and they will relate to thos tall tales first.

Ask a little more well educated American and they will relate to the gassinf of 6M, basicallly more or less.
Ask well educated people and they will most likely decline to make asses out of themselves because they have become confuses over what yarn they're supposed to believe this week?

And ask a skeptic and he/she will probably say that he/she is looking for something that isn't going to be revised every week by eye witnesses who are ten years too young to be the eyes.

In this skeptic's case, I have the low end estimate of 300,000 that I'm comfortable with for a start. But the Promotion side refuse to provide the high end estimate. We'll start a about 1M for now. Surely Shirley, the great historian with the dirty mouth can get his eggs lined up and do better than that?

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:47 am

Seems like we’ve been-there, done that.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:49 am

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Students will not, however, “learn,” as denier tracts would suggest they would, that 6 million Jews were gassed, that 4 million people died at Auschwitz, that victims’ bodies were used to manufacture soap and make lampshades, or that toddlers watched Hitler kill inmates in the KLs.
The holocaust teaching declines because it's a quiet expression of embarrassment by educated people because of the lampshades and the soap. Ask any dumb American and they will relate to thos tall tales first.

Ask a little more well educated American and they will relate to the gassinf of 6M, basicallly more or less.
Ask well educated people and they will most likely decline to make asses out of themselves because they have become confuses over what yarn they're supposed to believe this week?

And ask a skeptic and he/she will probably say that he/she is looking for something that isn't going to be revised every week by eye witnesses who are ten years too young to be the eyes.

In this skeptic's case, I have the low end estimate of 300,000 that I'm comfortable with for a start. But the Promotion side refuse to provide the high end estimate. We'll start a about 1M for now. Surely Shirley, the great historian with the dirty mouth can get his eggs lined up and do better than that?
What was that? Who's been where? We can't hear you well while you're hiding under your crib, little member.
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:56 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Students will not, however, “learn,” as denier tracts would suggest they would, that 6 million Jews were gassed, that 4 million people died at Auschwitz, that victims’ bodies were used to manufacture soap and make lampshades, or that toddlers watched Hitler kill inmates in the KLs.
The holocaust teaching declines because it's a quiet expression of embarrassment by educated people because of the lampshades and the soap. Ask any dumb American and they will relate to thos tall tales first.

Ask a little more well educated American and they will relate to the gassinf of 6M, basicallly more or less.
Ask well educated people and they will most likely decline to make asses out of themselves because they have become confuses over what yarn they're supposed to believe this week?

And ask a skeptic and he/she will probably say that he/she is looking for something that isn't going to be revised every week by eye witnesses who are ten years too young to be the eyes.

In this skeptic's case, I have the low end estimate of 300,000 that I'm comfortable with for a start. But the Promotion side refuse to provide the high end estimate. We'll start a about 1M for now. Surely Shirley, the great historian with the dirty mouth can get his eggs lined up and do better than that?
What was that? Who's been where? We can't hear you well while you're hiding under your crib, little member.
Right, forgot about the knee jerk anti US attitude instilled from birth by the residue of the Empire that raised it... Poor sad, mediocrity graduated school with no Empire, no job and too emotionally fractured to join the Army.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by nickterry » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:05 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Other than Dr. Terry I don't conscider anyone here as an authorotive holocaust studies figure. But people here are at the very least capble of distinguishing between real historigraphy and mouth-to-ear myths.
Sergey Romanov has done a lot of research in archives and knows this material in detail; ditto Roberto Muehlenkamp, although he's not posted here in quite a while. Whilst neither is a traditional academic, I consider both to be reliable and strong in various aspects of this history. None of which addresses this member's silly adolescent and knee-jerk problems with "authorities."
At the risk of stepping on toes, I consider the HC blog TEAM as authoritative. It's much too broad a subject, methinks, for one individual to be seen as "the authority"

As to our little group of church mice here, we're, as NT said, amateurs certainly, some might maybe considered "journeymen"... but no way "authorities". I certainly would never describe myself as either of the latter.
You're not stepping on any toes; it's really Roberto, Sergey, Hans and Jon's blog measured by articles published, with me supporting and helping in the background, which makes it no different to advising research students or colleagues in my day job. Much of the job of an academic historian, as with any other academic, is to make it possible for others to produce good work, not about being an "authority". I have PhD students to advise this morning; the operative word being advise.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:13 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Other than Dr. Terry I don't conscider anyone here as an authorotive holocaust studies figure. But people here are at the very least capble of distinguishing between real historigraphy and mouth-to-ear myths.
Sergey Romanov has done a lot of research in archives and knows this material in detail; ditto Roberto Muehlenkamp, although he's not posted here in quite a while. Whilst neither is a traditional academic, I consider both to be reliable and strong in various aspects of this history. None of which addresses this member's silly adolescent and knee-jerk problems with "authorities."
To be honest, I have of late acquired a kneejerk problem with 'holocaust' authorities. But then each time we are directed to an authority, that authority is demoted to a 'common person' by the H promotors.

My challenge to the Promotors is to produce a H. authority dating back to the 40's or 50's that doesn't immediately step in the dog poo.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:18 pm

Hey, so far none of the people who have tried to edumacate you stepped on you.
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:55 pm

nickterry wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Other than Dr. Terry I don't conscider anyone here as an authorotive holocaust studies figure. But people here are at the very least capble of distinguishing between real historigraphy and mouth-to-ear myths.
Sergey Romanov has done a lot of research in archives and knows this material in detail; ditto Roberto Muehlenkamp, although he's not posted here in quite a while. Whilst neither is a traditional academic, I consider both to be reliable and strong in various aspects of this history. None of which addresses this member's silly adolescent and knee-jerk problems with "authorities."
At the risk of stepping on toes, I consider the HC blog TEAM as authoritative. It's much too broad a subject, methinks, for one individual to be seen as "the authority"

As to our little group of church mice here, we're, as NT said, amateurs certainly, some might maybe considered "journeymen"... but no way "authorities". I certainly would never describe myself as either of the latter.
You're not stepping on any toes; it's really Roberto, Sergey, Hans and Jon's blog measured by articles published, with me supporting and helping in the background, which makes it no different to advising research students or colleagues in my day job. Much of the job of an academic historian, as with any other academic, is to make it possible for others to produce good work, not about being an "authority". I have PhD students to advise this morning; the operative word being advise.
I want to take that bit of personal information about you as being something that can be believed.

But I'm having a really hard time understanding how that can jibe with the childish behavior and personal insults you too resort to. This is common to H. Promotion and nothin else.

I'll put my hope in you for now because mainly, the rest need to be written off.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by nickterry » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:35 pm

montgomery wrote:
To be honest, I have of late acquired a kneejerk problem with 'holocaust' authorities. But then each time we are directed to an authority, that authority is demoted to a 'common person' by the H promotors.

My challenge to the Promotors is to produce a H. authority dating back to the 40's or 50's that doesn't immediately step in the dog poo.
Sorry, it doesn't work like that. On any historical topic you have:

1. primary sources (archival files, published documents, diaries, memoirs, newspapers, photos, films and many more types)
2. secondary sources (books, chapters, articles), also known as 'the literature'
3. tertiary sources, i.e. Britannica-style encylopedias or Wikipedia or other online summaries lacking proper referencing.

Secondary sources are where most people start if they are serious; usually with overviews. Overviews might well only reference specialist secondary studies or published sources; the good ones will use archival sources as well. This is typical for all topics. Here is a list of the major overviews of the Holocaust published since 1951 when Leon Poliakov's Harvest of Hate appeared, together with year of publication and a count of the footnotes/endnotes in the study. I have bolded the books which have not been superseded for one reason or another - not necessarily because they are more comprehensive/detailed than others.

Poliakov, Harvest of Hate 1951 481 notes
Reitlinger, The Final Solution 1953 1660 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (1961 1st edition) 1961 3413 notes
Levin, The Holocaust 1970 693 notes
Dawidowicz, War Against the Jews 1975 598 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (1985 2nd edition) 1985 4329 notes
Gilbert, The Holocaust 1986 2097 notes
Yahil, The Holocaust 1990 1784 notes
Friedlander, Years of Persecution 1997 1147 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (3rd edition) 2003 4711 notes
Friedlander, Years of Extermination 2006/7 2431 notes
Bloxham, The Final Solution 2009 557 notes
Longerich, Holocaust 2010 2263 notes

Goda, The Holocaust: Europe, the Jews and the World 2013 1440 notes
Cesarani, Final Solution 2016 1604 notes
Gerlach, The Extermination of the European Jews 2016 2404 notes

Aly, Europa gegen die Juden 1880-1945 2016 473 notes
Rees, The Holocaust: A New History 2017 1176 notes
16 books (25,519 notes)

And here are 392 specialist monographs tackling thematic aspects of the Holocaust or Nazi regime that would be considered important; 211 in English, the rest in German, French, Polish and the occasional Russian title. Obviously only a fraction of the total research, but these titles would include many works regarded as essential. Only a few books listed are regarded as superseded (mostly titles before the 1990s - although some still stand up, like Trunk's Judenrat) or are seen as seriously flawed (eg Goldhagen).

1. Breitman, The Architect of Genocide 1991 936 notes
2. Longerich, Himmler 2008 (2012) 3509 notes
3. Zelle, Hitlers zweifelnde Elite 2010 1192 notes
4. Longerich, Hitler: Biographie 2015 4800 notes
5. Pyta, Hitler. Der Künstler als Politiker und Feldherr 2015 2928 notes
6. Kaplan, Between Dignity and Despair 1998 539 notes
7. Wildt, Hitler’s Volksgemeinschaft 2007 (2011) 858 notes
8. Steinweis, Kristallnacht 2009 411 notes
9. Ahlheim, ‘Deutsche, kauft nicht bei Juden!’ 2011 1540 notes
10. Essner, Nürnberger Gesetze 2002 1749 notes
11. Jasch, Staatssekretär Wilhelm Stuckart und die Judenpolitik 2012
12. Reuth, Goebbels 1990 (2013) 3157 notes
13. Barth, Goebbels und die Juden 2003 1347 notes
14. Meyer zu Uptrup, Kampf gegen die “jüdische Weltverschwörung” 2003 1488 notes
15. Piper, Alfred Rosenberg: Hitlers Chefideologe 2005 (2015) 2361 notes
16. Herf, The Jewish Enemy 2006 842 notes
17. Longerich, Goebbels: A Biography 2012 (2015) 4235 notes
18. Roos, Julius Streicher und Der Stürmer 2014 2465 notes
19. Trunk, Judenrat (English) 1972 2029 notes
20. Corni, Hitler’s Ghettos 2002 2162 notes
21. Michman, The Emergence of Jewish Ghettos During the Holocaust 2011 392 notes
22. Kogon et al, Nazi Mass Murder with Poison Gas 1983 551 notes
23. Schneppen, Walter Rauff 2011 411 notes
24. Morsch/Perz (eds), Neue Studien 2011 1249 notes
25. Adam, Judenpolitik im Dritten Reich 1972 1834 notes
26. Friedman, Roads to Extinction 1980 1174 notes
27. Fleming, Hitler and the Final Solution 1982 (1994) 445 notes
28. L’Allemagne nazie et le genocide juif 1985 1408 notes
29. Jäckel/Rohwehr (eds), Der Mord an den europäischen Juden 1985 321 notes
30. Benz (ed), Dimension des Völkermordes 1991 2703 notes
31. Cesarani (ed) The Final Solution 1994 850 notes
32. Manoschek, “Serbien ist judenfrei” 1995 791 notes
33. Goldhagen, Hitler’s Willing Executioners 1996
34. Jansen, Der Madagaskar Plan 1997 833 notes
35. Brechtken, “Madagaskar für die Juden” 1998 1316 notes
36. Berenbaum/Peck (eds), The Holocaust and History 1998 2036 notes
37. Herbert (ed), National Socialist Extermination Policies 1998/2000 817 notes
38. Browning, Nazi Policy, Jewish Workers, German Killers 2000 586 notes
39. Longerich, The Unwritten Order 2001 456 notes
40. Bankier/Gutman (eds), Nazi Europe and the Final Solution 2003 1205 notes
41. Browning, Origins of the Final Solution 2004 1853 notes
42. Brayard, La “solution finale de la question juive” 2004 2434 notes
43. Rupnow, Vernichten und Erinnern 2005
44. Zimmermann (ed), On Germans and Jews under the Nazi Regime 2006 886 notes
45. Berkowitz, The Crime of My Very Existence 2007 820 notes
46. Hoffmann, ‘Das kann man nicht erzählen’ (1005) 2008 1135 notes
47. Gigliotti, The Train Journey 2009 634 notes
48. Brayard, Auschwitz, enquête sur un complot nazi 2012 1198 notes
49. Confino, A World Without Jews 2014 418 notes
50. Angrick, ‘Aktion 1005’ 2018 4205 notes
51. Mallmann/Paul (eds), Karrieren der Gewalt 2004
52. Cüppers, Wegbereiter des Shoahs 2005 1719 notes
53. Westermann, Hitler’s Police Battalions 2005 1166 notes
54. Welzer, Täter 2005 569 notes
55. Klemp, Nicht ermittelt 2005/2011 1497 notes
56. Schneider, Auswärts eingesetzt: Bremer Polizeibataillone 2011
57. Lower, Hitler’s Furies 2013
58. Kipp, ‘Grossreinmachen im Osten’ 2014
59. Kühl, Ganz normale Organisationen 2014
60. Black, Kaltenbrunner 1984 717 notes
61. Paul/Mallmann (eds), Die Gestapo im Zweiten Weltkrieg 2000
62. Herbert, Best 2001 1426 notes
63. Wildt, An Uncompromising Generation 2002 2389 notes
64. Husson, Heydrich et la solution finale 2008/2012 1331 notes
65. Ingrao, Believe and Destroy 2010 (2013) 1179 notes
66. Gerwarth, Hitler’s Hangman 2011 1208 notes
67. Gafke, Heydrichs Ostmärker 2015
68. Aly, Hitler’s Beneficiaries 2005 997 notes
69. Dean, Robbing the Jews 2008 1429 notes
70. Gruner, Jewish Forced Labor under the Nazis 2006 1290 notes
71. Tooze, Wages of Destruction 2006 2088 notes
72. Linne/Dierl (eds), Arbeitskräfte als Kriegsbeute 2011
73. Hensel//Lehnstaedt (eds) Arbeit in den nationalsozialistischen Ghettos 2013
74. Roseman, The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting 2003 357 notes
75. Kampe/Klein (eds), Die Wannsee-Konferenz 2013 1150 notes
76. Longerich, Wannseekonferenz 2016 389 notes
77. Aly/Heim, Architects of Annihilation 1991 (2002) 987 notes
78. Aly, Final Solution 1995 982 notes
79. Heinemann, Rasse, Siedlung, deutsches Blut 2003 1612 notes
80. Petersen, Bevölkerungsökonomie - Ostforschung – Politik (Seraphim) 2006
81. Wolf, Ideologie und Herrschaftsrationalität 2012 1268 notes
82. Ingrao, La promesse de l’Est 2016 662 notes
83. Sabrow/Frei (eds), Die Geburt des Zeitzeugen nach 1945 2012 908 notes
84. Taft, From Victim to Survivor 2013 714 notes
85. Taubitz, Holocaust Oral History und das lange Ende… 2016 904 notes
86. Michman, Holocaust Historiography 2003 1177 notes
87. Stone (ed), The Historiography of the Holocaust 2004 1822 notes
88. Bankier/Michman (eds), Holocaust Historiography in Context 2008 1284 notes
89. Engel, Historians of the Jews and the Holocaust 2009 916 notes
90. Lawson, Debates on the Holocaust 2010 953 notes
91. Stone, Histories of the Holocaust 2010 926 notes
92. Stone (ed), The Holocaust and Historical Methodology 2013 865 notes
93. Laqueur, The Terrible Secret 1980 280 notes
94. Gilbert, Auschwitz and the Allies 1981 833 notes
95. Rubinstein, The Myth of Rescue 1997 (2000) 626 notes
96. Breitman, Official Secrets 1998 752 notes
97. Penkower, Decision on Palestine Deferred 2002 620 notes
98. Bankier (ed), Secret Intelligence and the Holocaust 2006 789 notes
99. Hamerow, Why We Watched 2008 442 notes
100. Caestecker/Moore (eds), Refugees from Nazi Germany 2010 995 notes
101. Plesch, America, Hitler and the UN 2011 383 notes
102. Gorny, The Jewish Press and the Holocaust 2012 624 notes
103. Segev, World Jewish Congress and Holocaust 2014 474 notes
104. Porat, The Blue and Yellow Stars of David 1986 (1990) 538 notes
105. Ofer, Escaping the Holocaust 1988 (1990) 868 notes
106. Friling, Arrows in the Dark 1998 (2005) 2047 notes
107. Koblik, The Stones Cry Out 1988 306 notes
108. Favez, The Red Cross and the Holocaust 1988 (1999) 565 notes
109. Haas, Wenn man gewusst hätte 1994 (1997) 593 notes
110. Levine, From Indifference to Activism 1996 (1998) 859 notes
111. Phayer, The Catholic Church and the Holocaust 2000 969 notes
112. Zuccotti, Under His Very Windows 2002 1061 notes
113. Mächler, Hilfe und Ohnmacht 2005 608 notes
114. Wasserstein, Britain and the Jews of Europe 1979 1135 notes
115. Kushner, The Holocaust and the Liberal Imagination 1990 750 notes
116. Bolchover, British Jewry and the Holocaust 1993 (2003) 635 notes
117. Sompolinsky, Britain and the Holocaust 1999 988 notes
118. London, Whitehall and the Jews 2000 925 notes
119. Cohen, Rescue the Perishing 2010 1029 notes
120. Bankier, The Germans and the Final Solution 1992 609 notes
121. Longerich, ‘Davon haben wir nichts gewusst!’ 2006 1233 notes
122. Bajohr/Pohl, Massenmord und schlechtes Gewissen 2006 306 notes
123. Dörner, Die Deutschen und der Holocaust 2007 2265 notes
124. Berkhoff, Motherland in Danger 2012 955 notes
125. Lanicek, Czechs, Slovaks and the Jews 2013 1145 notes
126. Lanicek/Jordan (eds), Governments-in-Exile and the Jews 2013 650 notes
127. Feingold, The Politics of Rescue 1970 966 notes
128. Ross, So It Was True 1980 752 notes
129. Bauer, American Jewry and the Holocaust 1981 739 notes
130. Penkower, The Jews Were Expendable 1983 770 notes
131. Wyman, The Abandonment of the Jews 1984 1281 notes
132. Lookstein, Were We Our Brothers’ Keepers? 1985 623 notes
133. Lipstadt, Beyond Belief 1986 879 notes
134. Feingold, Bearing Witness to the Holocaust 1995 482 notes
135. Leff, Buried By The Times 2005 876 notes
136. Hurwitz, Jews Without Power 2011 (2015) 1053 notes
137. Wallance, America’s Soul in the Balance 2012 482 notes
138. Breitman/Lichtman, FDR and the Jews 2013 868 notes
139. Medoff, FDR and the Holocaust 2013 314 notes
140. Medoff, The Anguish of a Jewish Leader 2015 336 notes
141. Engel, In the Shadow of Auschwitz 1987 911 notes
142. Engel, Facing a Holocaust 1993 903 notes
143. Stola, Nadzieja i zaglada 1995 1140 notes
144. Puławski, W obliczu Zagłady 2009 2386 notes
145. Zimmerman, Polish Underground and the Jews 2015 2067 notes
146. Bloxham, Genocide on Trial 2001 989 notes
147. Douglas, The Memory of Judgment 2001 465 notes
148. Weinke, Die Verfolgung von NS-Tätern im geteilten Deutschland 2002 1499 notes
149. Weindling, Nazi Medicine and the Nuremberg Trials 2004 2189 notes
150. Hasian, Rhetorical Vectors of Memory 2006 986 notes
151. Heberer/Matthäus (eds), Atrocities on Trial 2008 886 notes
152. Weinke, Eine Gesellschaft ermittelt gegen sich selbst 2008 728 notes
153. Mallmann/Angrick (eds), Die Gestapo nach 1945 2009
154. Hebert, Hitler’s Generals on Trial 2010 870 notes
155. Segev, Simon Wiesenthal 2010 1026 notes
156. Heller, The Nuremberg Military Tribunals 2011 2400 notes
157. Eichmüller, Keine Generalamnestie 2012 1352 notes
158. Raim, Justiz zwischen Diktatur und Demokratie 2013 5422 notes
159. Tisseron, La France et le process de Nuremberg 2014 749 notes
160. Jockusch/Finder (eds), Jewish Honor Courts 2015 1107 notes
161. Klee, “Euthanasie” im NS-Staat 1983 1606 notes
162. Burleigh, Death and Deliverance 1994 972 notes
163. Riess, Die Anfänge der Vernichtung ‘lebensunwertes Lebens’ 1994
164. Friedlander, The Origins of Nazi Genocide 1995 1745 notes
165. Bryant, Confronting the Good Death 2005
166. Schmidt, Karl Brandt: The Nazi Doctor 2007 1955 notes
167. Aly, Die Belasteten 2013 454 notes
168. Krausnick/Wilhelm, Truppen des Weltanschauungskrieges 1981 2107 notes
169. Headland, Messages of Mass Murder 1992 1168 notes
170. Ogorreck, Die Einsatzgruppen und die ‘Genesis der Endlösung’ 1996 780 notes
171. Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial 2009 1352 notes
172. Heer/Naumann (eds), Vernichtungskrieg 1995 1482 notes
173. Manoschek (ed), Die Wehrmacht im Rassenkrieg 1996 412 notes
174. Dean, Collaboration in the Holocaust 2000 1019 notes
175. Altman, Zhertvy nenavisti 2002
176. Curilla, Die deutsche Ordnungspolizei und der Holocaust 2006 8270 notes
177. Kay, Exploitation, Resettlement, Mass Murder 2006 953 notes
178. Huerter, Hitlers Heerfuehrer 2007 2594 notes
179. Pohl, Die Herrschaft der Wehrmacht 2008 1404 notes
180. Arad, Holocaust in the Soviet Union 2009 1747 notes
181. Bauer, The Death of the Shtetl 2009 328 notes
182. Hasenclever, Wehrmacht und Besatzungspolitik 2010 3107 notes
183. Kay/Rutherford/Stahel (eds), Nazi Policy on the Eastern Front, 1941 2012 1053 notes
184. Streit, Keine Kameraden 1978/1991 1780 notes
185. Römer, Der Kommissarbefehl 2008 2175 notes
186. Keller, Sowjetische Kriegsgefangene im Deutschen Reich 1941/42 2011 1591 notes
187. Shneyer, Pariahs Among Pariahs 2016
188. Spector, Holocaust of Volhynian Jewry 1986 (1990) 750 notes
189. Berkhoff, Harvest of Despair 2004 1620 notes
190. Kruglov, The Losses Suffered by Ukrainian Jews 2005 1508 notes
191. Lower, Nazi Empire-Building 2005 756 notes
192. Brandon/Lower (eds), The Shoah in Ukraine 2008 1105 notes
193. Christ, Die Dynamik des Tötens 2011 616 notes
194. Burds, The Holocaust in Rovno 2013 222 notes
195. Angrick, Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord 2003 1933 notes
196. Oldenburg, Ideologie und militärische Kalkül 2004 1299 notes
197. Kunz, Die Krim unter deutscher Herrschaft 1941-1944 2005 ?
198. Wrochem, von, Erich von Manstein: Vernichtungskrieg 2006 (2009) 1795 notes
199. Feferman, The Holocaust in the Crimea and the North Caucasus 2016 1887 notes
200. Cholawsky, The Jews of Bielorussia during World War II 1982 (1998) 576 notes
201. Gerlach, Kalkulierte Morde 1999 6309 notes
202. Shepherd, War in the Wild East 2004 704 notes
203. Epstein, The Minsk Ghetto 2008 389 notes
204. Hartmann, Wehrmacht im Ostkrieg 2009 4871 notes
205. Brakel, Unter Rotem Stern und Hakenkreuz 2009 2020 notes
206. Quinkert, Propaganda und Terror 2009 1920 notes
207. Rentrop, Tatorte der ‘Endloesung’ 2011 969 notes
208. Rein, The Kings and the Pawns 2011 1472 notes
209. Cohen, Smolensk under the Nazis 2013 1223 notes
210. Beorn, Marching into Darkness 2014 1055 notes
211. Pieper, Fegelein’s Horsemen 2014 811 notes
212. Kay, The Making of an SS Killer 2016 896 notes
213. Kugler, Scherwitz 2004 908 notes
214. Angrick/Klein, The “Final Solution” in Riga 2006 1282 notes
215. Birn, Die Sicherheitspolizei in Estland 2006
216. Weiss-Wendt, Murder Without Hatred 2009 1339 notes
217. Schneppen, Ghettokommandant in Riga 2009 836 notes
218. Dieckmann, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Litauen 2011 6712 notes
219. Reichelt, Lettland unter deutscher Besatzung 1941-1944 2011 1270 notes
220. Wette, Karl Jäger 2011 586 notes
221. Kilian, Wehrmacht und Besatzungsherrschaft im Nordwesten 2012 2854 notes
222. Plath, Zwischen Schonung und Menschenjagd 2012 1786 notes
223. Tauber, Arbeit als Hoffnung: Jüdische Ghettos in Litauen 1941-1944 2015 3020 notes
224. Ioanid, The Holocaust in Romania 2000 1378 notes
225. Solonari, Purifying the Nation 2010 1268 notes
226. Baum, Varianten des Terrors 2011 2595 notes
227. Ancel, The History of the Holocaust in Romania 2011 1909 notes
228. Steinhart, The Holocaust and the Germanization of Ukraine 2015 933 notes
229. Dumitru, The state, antisemitism and collaboration in the Holocaust 2016 1019 notes
230. Trunk, Łódź Ghetto: A History 1962 (2006) 1321 notes
231. Krakowski, Chelmno 2001 459 notes
232. Ziołkowska, Obozy pracy przymusowej 2005 746 notes
233. Alberti, Verfolgung und Vernichtung 2006 1866 notes
234. Löw, Juden im Getto Litzmannstadt 2006 1735 notes
235. Horwitz, Ghettostadt 2008 888 notes
236. Klein, Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 2009 1635 notes
237. Epstein, Model Nazi 2010 1907 notes
238. Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011 675 notes
239. Gutman, The Jews of Warsaw 1982 698 notes
240. Paulsson, Secret City 2002 547 notes
241. Levin, Walls Around 2003 (2004) 411 notes
242. Kassow, Who Will Write Our History? 2007 1193 notes
243. Engelking/Leociak (eds), Prowincja noc 2007 1986 notes
244. Libionka/Weinbaum, Bohaterowie, hochsztaplerzy, opisywacze 2011 1512 notes
245. Klemp, Vernichtung 2013 590 notes
246. Roth/Schmidt, Judenmord in Ostrów Mazowiecka 2013 332 notes
247. Karay, Death Comes in Yellow 1996
248. Seidel, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Polen 2006 2032 notes
249. Mlynarczyk, Judenmord in Zentralpolen 2007 1338 notes
250. Browning, Remembering Survival 2010 1449 notes
251. Crowe, Oskar Schindler 2004 1836 notes
252. Grabowski, Hunt for the Jews 2011 (2013) 505 notes
253. Hembera, Die Shoah im Distrikt Krakau (Tarnow) 2016 1548 notes
254. Browning, Ordinary Men 1992 511 notes
255. Pohl, Von der “Judenpolitik” zum Judenmord 1993 863 notes
256. Musial, Deutsche Zivilverwaltung und Judenverfolgung 1999 1384 notes
257. Silberklang, Gates of Tears 2013 748 notes
258. Pohl, Nationalsozialistische Judenverfolgung in Ostgalizien 1996 2153 notes
259. Sandkühler, “Endlösung” in Galizien 1996 1050 notes
260. Redlich, Together and Apart in Brzezany 2002 371 notes
261. Bartov, Erased 2007 190 notes
262. Struve, Deutsche Herrschaft 2015
263. Bender, The Jews of Bialystok 1997 (2008) 1018 notes
264. Gross, Neighbors 2000 (2001) 169 notes
265. Zbikowski, U genezy Jedwabnego 2006 940 notes
266. Stoll, Die Herstellung der Wahrheit 2012 2041 notes
267. Schwindt, Majdanek 2005 1475 notes
268. Mailander, Female SS Guards and Workaday Violence 2009 (2015) 1408 notes
269. Lenarcyzk/Libionka (eds), Erntefest 2009 1518 notes
270. Rossino, Hitler Strikes Poland 2003 1100 notes
271. Böhler, Auftakt zum Vernichtungskrieg 2006 1110 notes
272. Wardzyńska, Był rok 1939 2009 277 notes
273. Majer, “Non-Germans” Under the Third Reich 1981 (2013) 3935 notes
274. Krakowski, The War of the Doomed 1984 565 notes
275. Tomaszewski/Werbowski, Code Name: Zegota 1994 (2010) 74 notes
276. Housden, Hans Frank and Lebensraum 2003 1411 notes
277. Jockheck, Propaganda im Generalgouvernement 2006 1116 notes
278. Schenk, Hans Frank 2006 1442 notes
279. Loose, Kredite für NS-Verbrechen 2007 2023 notes
280. Rutherford, Prelude to the Final Solution 2007 744 notes
281. Roth, Herrenmenschen 2009 1233 notes
282. Curilla, Der Judenmord in Polen 2011 8405 notes
283. Gross, Golden Harvest 2011 (2012) 180 notes
284. Żbikowski, Karski 2011 375 notes
285. Medykowski, W cieniu gigantow 2012 686 notes
286. Böhler/Lehnstaedt (eds), Gewalt und Alltag im besetzten Polen 2012
287. Arad, Belzec Sobibor Treblinka 1987 688 notes
288. Schelvis, Sobibor 1998/2003 662 notes
289. Musial (ed), Aktion Reinhard 2004 1296 notes
290. Poprzeczny, Hitler’s Man in the East: Odilo Globocnik 2004 463 notes
291. Rieger, Creator of Nazi Death Camps 2007 551 notes
292. Kuwalek, Das Vernichtungslager Belzec 2011/2013 713 notes
293. Berger, Experten der Vernichtung 2013 1698 notes
294. Rashke, Useful Enemies 2013 542 notes
295. Bryant, Eyewitness to Genocide 2014 667 notes
296. Benz, Handlager der SS 2015 1185 notes
297. Wienert, Das Lager vorstellen 2015
298. Safrian, Eichmann’s Men 1993 (2010) 1109 notes
299. Lozowick, Hitler’s Bureaucrats 2000 (2002) 787 notes
300. Yablonka, The State of Israel vs Adolf Eichmann 2001 (2004) 843 notes
301. Wojak, Eichmanns Memoiren 2001
302. Cesarani, Eichmann 2004 1024 notes
303. Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem 2011 (2014) 1406 notes
304. Browning, The Final Solution and the German Foreign Office 1978 811 notes
305. Döscher, Das Auswärtige Amt im Dritten Reich 1987 1085 notes
306. Weitkamp, Braune Diplomaten 2008 2112 notes
307. Conzeet al, Das Amt und die Vergangenheit 2010
308. Adler, The Jews of Paris and the Final Solution 1985 (1987) 924 notes
309. Poznanski, Jews in France during World War II 1997 (2001) 2446 notes
310. Lafitte, Un engrenage fatal 2003 913 notes
311. Brunner, Die Frankreich-Komplex 2004 1257 notes
312. Meyer, Täter im Verhör 2005 1,599 notes
313. Lieb, Konventioneller Krieg oder NS-Weltanschauungskrieg? 2007
314. Seibel, Persecution and Rescue 2010 (2016) 944 notes
315. Wieviorka/Lafitte, A l’intérieur du camp de Drancy 2012 490 notes
316. Semelin, Persecutions et entraides dans la France occupee 2013
317. Michman (ed), Belgium and the Holocaust 1998 1143 notes
318. Van Doorslaer (ed), La Belgique docile 2007 4252 notes
319. Meinen, Die Shoah in Belgien 2012 552 notes
320. Meinen/Meyer, Verfolgt von Land zu Land 2013 660 notes
321. Moore, Victims and Survivors 1997 914 notes
322. Ritz, Schreibtischtäter vor Gericht 2012 743 notes
323. Steinberg, All or Nothing 1990 799 notes
324. Mazower, Inside Hitler’s Greece 1993 807 notes
325. Guttstadt, Die Türkei, die Juden und der Holocaust 2008
326. Bowman, The Agony of Greek Jewry 2009 760 notes
327. Moore, Survivors 2010 1508 notes
328. Meyer, Das Wissen um Auschwitz 2010 556 notes
329. Fulbrook, A Small Town Near Auschwitz 2012 873 notes
330. Korb, Im Schatten des Weltkrieges 2013
331. Rabinovici, Eichmann’s Jews 2000 (2011) 735 notes
332. Rothkirchen, The Jews of Bohemia & Moravia 2005 1440 notes
333. Gottwaldt/Schulle, Die Judendeportationen aus dem deutschen Reich 2005
334. Osterloh, Nationalsozialistische Judenverfolgung im Sudetenland 2006
335. Meyer, A Fatal Balancing Act 2011 (2013) 1513 notes
336. Jah, Die Deportation der Juden aus Berlin 2013
337. Kuller, Bürokratie und Verbrechen 2013
338. Gruner, Die Judenverfolgung im Protektorat 2016 1823 notes
339. Ben-Tov, Facing the Holocaust in Budapest 1988 690 notes
340. Kranzler, The Man Who Stopped The Trains to Auschwitz 2000 864 notes
341. Gerlach/Aly, Das letzte Kapitel 2002 1870 notes
342. Cole, Holocaust City 2003 788 notes
343. Levine, Raul Wallenberg in Budapest 2010 951 notes
344. Bogdanor, Kasztner’s Crime 2016 790 notes
345. Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz 1994 318 notes
346. Gutman/Berenbaum (eds), Anatomy of the Auschwitz 1994 1160 notes
347. Dlugoborski/Piper (eds), Auschwitz 1940-1945, 5 vols 1995/2000 3286 notes
348. Dwork/Pelt, Auschwitz 1996 679 notes
349. Wagner, IG Auschwitz 2000 1308 notes
350. Steinbacher, ‘Musterstadt’ Auschwitz 2000 1632 notes
351. Pelt, van, The Case for Auschwitz 2002 931 notes
352. Friedler/Siebert/Kilian, Zeugen aus der Todeszone 2002 895 notes
353. Zürcher, Wir machten die schwarzen Arbeit des Holocaust 2004 839 notes
354. Pendas, The Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial 2006 1227 notes
355. Dirks, “Die Verbrechen der anderen” 2006 1275 notes
356. Knopp, Wir lebten mitten im Tod 2009 380 notes
357. Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust 2010 1301 notes
358. Lang, Die Frauen von Block 10 2011 713 notes
359. Stengel, Hermann Langbein 2012 2219 notes
360. Fleming, Auschwitz, The Allies and Censorship 2014 847 notes
361. Greif/Levin, Aufstand in Auschwitz 2015 446 notes
362. Dobosiewicz, Vernichtungslager Gusen 1977 (2007) 347 notes
363. Pingel, Häftlinge unter SS-Herrschaft 1978 578 notes
364. Herbert/Dieckmann/Orth (eds), Die nationalsozialistischen KL 1998
365. Orth, Das System der nationalsozialistischen KL 1999 1234 notes
366. Wenck, Zwischen Menschenhandel und “Endlösung” 2000 1461 notes
367. Orth, Die Konzentrationslager-SS 2000
368. Lotfi, KZ der Gestapo 2000
369. Schulte, Zwangsarbeit und Vernichtung 2001 1778 notes
370. Allen, The Business of Genocide 2002 726 notes
371. Strebel, Das KZ Ravensbrück 2003 2625 notes
372. Kaienburg, Die Wirtschaft der SS 2003 3688 notes
373. Steegman, Natzweiler 2005 (2010) 1985 notes
374. Kaienburg, Der Militär- und Wirtschaftskomplex Oranienburg 2006 1208 notes
375. Gutternan, A Narrow Bridge to Life 2008 725 notes
376. Buggeln, Arbeit & Gewalt (translated as Slave Labor) 2009 1976 notes
377. Schalm, Überleben durch Arbeit? 2009
378. Caplan/Wachsmann (eds), Concentration Camps in Nazi Germany 2010 675 notes
379. Blatman, The Death Marches 2011 1836 notes
380. Weigelt, Judenmord im Reichsgebiet 2011 2388 notes
381. Jardim, The Mauthausen Trial 2012 616 notes
382. Adam, Die Arbeiterfrage soll mot Hilfe von KZ-Häftlingen gelöst w.. 2013 1890 notes
383. Rudorff, Frauen in den Aussenlagern des KL Gross-Rosen 2014 1640 notes
384. Scheck, Zwangsarbeit und Massensterben 2014 942 notes
385. Weindling, Victims and Survivors of Nazi Human Expts 2015 1042 notes
386. Pauer-Studer/Velleman, Konrad Morgen 2015 510 notes
387. Wachsmann, KL 2015 3423 notes
388. Wünschmann, Before Auschwitz 2015 1069 notes
389. Stone, The Liberation of the Camps 2015 739 notes
390. Hördler, Ordnung und Inferno 2015 2086 notes
391. Dillon, Dachau and the SS 2015 1439 notes
392. Keller, Volksgemeinschaft am Ende 2013

How it works: on any given topic, all recent titles that explored relevant source bases, regardless of language = what one should read. To give the example of Chelmno, while Montague's book on Chelmno is the most recent study, it did not use the Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt records which contain innumerable contemporary documents about SS-Sonderkommando Kulmhof; these are discussed by Alberti and Klein. One would realistically expect someone to read at least one of Epstein, Horwitz, Loew, or Trunk re the Lodz ghetto/Warthegau.

230. Trunk, Łódź Ghetto: A History 1962 (2006) 1321 notes
231. Krakowski, Chelmno 2001 459 notes
232. Ziołkowska, Obozy pracy przymusowej 2005 746 notes
233. Alberti, Verfolgung und Vernichtung 2006 1866 notes
234. Löw, Juden im Getto Litzmannstadt 2006 1735 notes
235. Horwitz, Ghettostadt 2008 888 notes
236. Klein, Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 2009 1635 notes
237. Epstein, Model Nazi 2010 1907 notes
238. Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011 675 notes

Fortunately for non-German readers as well as cheapskates/lazybones who don't want to go to bookstores or libraries, Hans Metzner at HC has been blogging about Chelmno for some time, presenting translations of key sources as well as facsimiles, including from the Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt records.

It would be impossible to take seriously anyone who has not absorbed, at least via the secondary literature, the significance of the GVL sources for our knowledge and understanding of Chelmno, just as it would be impossible to take seriously anyone who ignored the 1945 Polish investigation or the early 1960s West German investigation of Chelmno.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:46 pm

That should keep it busy. :heh:
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:50 pm

nickterry wrote:
montgomery wrote:
To be honest, I have of late acquired a kneejerk problem with 'holocaust' authorities. But then each time we are directed to an authority, that authority is demoted to a 'common person' by the H promotors.

My challenge to the Promotors is to produce a H. authority dating back to the 40's or 50's that doesn't immediately step in the dog poo.
Sorry, it doesn't work like that. On any historical topic you have:

1. primary sources (archival files, published documents, diaries, memoirs, newspapers, photos, films and many more types)
2. secondary sources (books, chapters, articles), also known as 'the literature'
3. tertiary sources, i.e. Britannica-style encylopedias or Wikipedia or other online summaries lacking proper referencing.

Secondary sources are where most people start if they are serious; usually with overviews. Overviews might well only reference specialist secondary studies or published sources; the good ones will use archival sources as well. This is typical for all topics. Here is a list of the major overviews of the Holocaust published since 1951 when Leon Poliakov's Harvest of Hate appeared, together with year of publication and a count of the footnotes/endnotes in the study. I have bolded the books which have not been superseded for one reason or another - not necessarily because they are more comprehensive/detailed than others.

Poliakov, Harvest of Hate 1951 481 notes
Reitlinger, The Final Solution 1953 1660 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (1961 1st edition) 1961 3413 notes
Levin, The Holocaust 1970 693 notes
Dawidowicz, War Against the Jews 1975 598 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (1985 2nd edition) 1985 4329 notes
Gilbert, The Holocaust 1986 2097 notes
Yahil, The Holocaust 1990 1784 notes
Friedlander, Years of Persecution 1997 1147 notes
Hilberg, Destruction (3rd edition) 2003 4711 notes
Friedlander, Years of Extermination 2006/7 2431 notes
Bloxham, The Final Solution 2009 557 notes
Longerich, Holocaust 2010 2263 notes

Goda, The Holocaust: Europe, the Jews and the World 2013 1440 notes
Cesarani, Final Solution 2016 1604 notes
Gerlach, The Extermination of the European Jews 2016 2404 notes

Aly, Europa gegen die Juden 1880-1945 2016 473 notes
Rees, The Holocaust: A New History 2017 1176 notes
16 books (25,519 notes)

And here are 392 specialist monographs tackling thematic aspects of the Holocaust or Nazi regime that would be considered important; 211 in English, the rest in German, French, Polish and the occasional Russian title. Obviously only a fraction of the total research, but these titles would include many works regarded as essential. Only a few books listed are regarded as superseded (mostly titles before the 1990s - although some still stand up, like Trunk's Judenrat) or are seen as seriously flawed (eg Goldhagen).

1. Breitman, The Architect of Genocide 1991 936 notes
2. Longerich, Himmler 2008 (2012) 3509 notes
3. Zelle, Hitlers zweifelnde Elite 2010 1192 notes
4. Longerich, Hitler: Biographie 2015 4800 notes
5. Pyta, Hitler. Der Künstler als Politiker und Feldherr 2015 2928 notes
6. Kaplan, Between Dignity and Despair 1998 539 notes
7. Wildt, Hitler’s Volksgemeinschaft 2007 (2011) 858 notes
8. Steinweis, Kristallnacht 2009 411 notes
9. Ahlheim, ‘Deutsche, kauft nicht bei Juden!’ 2011 1540 notes
10. Essner, Nürnberger Gesetze 2002 1749 notes
11. Jasch, Staatssekretär Wilhelm Stuckart und die Judenpolitik 2012
12. Reuth, Goebbels 1990 (2013) 3157 notes
13. Barth, Goebbels und die Juden 2003 1347 notes
14. Meyer zu Uptrup, Kampf gegen die “jüdische Weltverschwörung” 2003 1488 notes
15. Piper, Alfred Rosenberg: Hitlers Chefideologe 2005 (2015) 2361 notes
16. Herf, The Jewish Enemy 2006 842 notes
17. Longerich, Goebbels: A Biography 2012 (2015) 4235 notes
18. Roos, Julius Streicher und Der Stürmer 2014 2465 notes
19. Trunk, Judenrat (English) 1972 2029 notes
20. Corni, Hitler’s Ghettos 2002 2162 notes
21. Michman, The Emergence of Jewish Ghettos During the Holocaust 2011 392 notes
22. Kogon et al, Nazi Mass Murder with Poison Gas 1983 551 notes
23. Schneppen, Walter Rauff 2011 411 notes
24. Morsch/Perz (eds), Neue Studien 2011 1249 notes
25. Adam, Judenpolitik im Dritten Reich 1972 1834 notes
26. Friedman, Roads to Extinction 1980 1174 notes
27. Fleming, Hitler and the Final Solution 1982 (1994) 445 notes
28. L’Allemagne nazie et le genocide juif 1985 1408 notes
29. Jäckel/Rohwehr (eds), Der Mord an den europäischen Juden 1985 321 notes
30. Benz (ed), Dimension des Völkermordes 1991 2703 notes
31. Cesarani (ed) The Final Solution 1994 850 notes
32. Manoschek, “Serbien ist judenfrei” 1995 791 notes
33. Goldhagen, Hitler’s Willing Executioners 1996
34. Jansen, Der Madagaskar Plan 1997 833 notes
35. Brechtken, “Madagaskar für die Juden” 1998 1316 notes
36. Berenbaum/Peck (eds), The Holocaust and History 1998 2036 notes
37. Herbert (ed), National Socialist Extermination Policies 1998/2000 817 notes
38. Browning, Nazi Policy, Jewish Workers, German Killers 2000 586 notes
39. Longerich, The Unwritten Order 2001 456 notes
40. Bankier/Gutman (eds), Nazi Europe and the Final Solution 2003 1205 notes
41. Browning, Origins of the Final Solution 2004 1853 notes
42. Brayard, La “solution finale de la question juive” 2004 2434 notes
43. Rupnow, Vernichten und Erinnern 2005
44. Zimmermann (ed), On Germans and Jews under the Nazi Regime 2006 886 notes
45. Berkowitz, The Crime of My Very Existence 2007 820 notes
46. Hoffmann, ‘Das kann man nicht erzählen’ (1005) 2008 1135 notes
47. Gigliotti, The Train Journey 2009 634 notes
48. Brayard, Auschwitz, enquête sur un complot nazi 2012 1198 notes
49. Confino, A World Without Jews 2014 418 notes
50. Angrick, ‘Aktion 1005’ 2018 4205 notes
51. Mallmann/Paul (eds), Karrieren der Gewalt 2004
52. Cüppers, Wegbereiter des Shoahs 2005 1719 notes
53. Westermann, Hitler’s Police Battalions 2005 1166 notes
54. Welzer, Täter 2005 569 notes
55. Klemp, Nicht ermittelt 2005/2011 1497 notes
56. Schneider, Auswärts eingesetzt: Bremer Polizeibataillone 2011
57. Lower, Hitler’s Furies 2013
58. Kipp, ‘Grossreinmachen im Osten’ 2014
59. Kühl, Ganz normale Organisationen 2014
60. Black, Kaltenbrunner 1984 717 notes
61. Paul/Mallmann (eds), Die Gestapo im Zweiten Weltkrieg 2000
62. Herbert, Best 2001 1426 notes
63. Wildt, An Uncompromising Generation 2002 2389 notes
64. Husson, Heydrich et la solution finale 2008/2012 1331 notes
65. Ingrao, Believe and Destroy 2010 (2013) 1179 notes
66. Gerwarth, Hitler’s Hangman 2011 1208 notes
67. Gafke, Heydrichs Ostmärker 2015
68. Aly, Hitler’s Beneficiaries 2005 997 notes
69. Dean, Robbing the Jews 2008 1429 notes
70. Gruner, Jewish Forced Labor under the Nazis 2006 1290 notes
71. Tooze, Wages of Destruction 2006 2088 notes
72. Linne/Dierl (eds), Arbeitskräfte als Kriegsbeute 2011
73. Hensel//Lehnstaedt (eds) Arbeit in den nationalsozialistischen Ghettos 2013
74. Roseman, The Villa, The Lake, The Meeting 2003 357 notes
75. Kampe/Klein (eds), Die Wannsee-Konferenz 2013 1150 notes
76. Longerich, Wannseekonferenz 2016 389 notes
77. Aly/Heim, Architects of Annihilation 1991 (2002) 987 notes
78. Aly, Final Solution 1995 982 notes
79. Heinemann, Rasse, Siedlung, deutsches Blut 2003 1612 notes
80. Petersen, Bevölkerungsökonomie - Ostforschung – Politik (Seraphim) 2006
81. Wolf, Ideologie und Herrschaftsrationalität 2012 1268 notes
82. Ingrao, La promesse de l’Est 2016 662 notes
83. Sabrow/Frei (eds), Die Geburt des Zeitzeugen nach 1945 2012 908 notes
84. Taft, From Victim to Survivor 2013 714 notes
85. Taubitz, Holocaust Oral History und das lange Ende… 2016 904 notes
86. Michman, Holocaust Historiography 2003 1177 notes
87. Stone (ed), The Historiography of the Holocaust 2004 1822 notes
88. Bankier/Michman (eds), Holocaust Historiography in Context 2008 1284 notes
89. Engel, Historians of the Jews and the Holocaust 2009 916 notes
90. Lawson, Debates on the Holocaust 2010 953 notes
91. Stone, Histories of the Holocaust 2010 926 notes
92. Stone (ed), The Holocaust and Historical Methodology 2013 865 notes
93. Laqueur, The Terrible Secret 1980 280 notes
94. Gilbert, Auschwitz and the Allies 1981 833 notes
95. Rubinstein, The Myth of Rescue 1997 (2000) 626 notes
96. Breitman, Official Secrets 1998 752 notes
97. Penkower, Decision on Palestine Deferred 2002 620 notes
98. Bankier (ed), Secret Intelligence and the Holocaust 2006 789 notes
99. Hamerow, Why We Watched 2008 442 notes
100. Caestecker/Moore (eds), Refugees from Nazi Germany 2010 995 notes
101. Plesch, America, Hitler and the UN 2011 383 notes
102. Gorny, The Jewish Press and the Holocaust 2012 624 notes
103. Segev, World Jewish Congress and Holocaust 2014 474 notes
104. Porat, The Blue and Yellow Stars of David 1986 (1990) 538 notes
105. Ofer, Escaping the Holocaust 1988 (1990) 868 notes
106. Friling, Arrows in the Dark 1998 (2005) 2047 notes
107. Koblik, The Stones Cry Out 1988 306 notes
108. Favez, The Red Cross and the Holocaust 1988 (1999) 565 notes
109. Haas, Wenn man gewusst hätte 1994 (1997) 593 notes
110. Levine, From Indifference to Activism 1996 (1998) 859 notes
111. Phayer, The Catholic Church and the Holocaust 2000 969 notes
112. Zuccotti, Under His Very Windows 2002 1061 notes
113. Mächler, Hilfe und Ohnmacht 2005 608 notes
114. Wasserstein, Britain and the Jews of Europe 1979 1135 notes
115. Kushner, The Holocaust and the Liberal Imagination 1990 750 notes
116. Bolchover, British Jewry and the Holocaust 1993 (2003) 635 notes
117. Sompolinsky, Britain and the Holocaust 1999 988 notes
118. London, Whitehall and the Jews 2000 925 notes
119. Cohen, Rescue the Perishing 2010 1029 notes
120. Bankier, The Germans and the Final Solution 1992 609 notes
121. Longerich, ‘Davon haben wir nichts gewusst!’ 2006 1233 notes
122. Bajohr/Pohl, Massenmord und schlechtes Gewissen 2006 306 notes
123. Dörner, Die Deutschen und der Holocaust 2007 2265 notes
124. Berkhoff, Motherland in Danger 2012 955 notes
125. Lanicek, Czechs, Slovaks and the Jews 2013 1145 notes
126. Lanicek/Jordan (eds), Governments-in-Exile and the Jews 2013 650 notes
127. Feingold, The Politics of Rescue 1970 966 notes
128. Ross, So It Was True 1980 752 notes
129. Bauer, American Jewry and the Holocaust 1981 739 notes
130. Penkower, The Jews Were Expendable 1983 770 notes
131. Wyman, The Abandonment of the Jews 1984 1281 notes
132. Lookstein, Were We Our Brothers’ Keepers? 1985 623 notes
133. Lipstadt, Beyond Belief 1986 879 notes
134. Feingold, Bearing Witness to the Holocaust 1995 482 notes
135. Leff, Buried By The Times 2005 876 notes
136. Hurwitz, Jews Without Power 2011 (2015) 1053 notes
137. Wallance, America’s Soul in the Balance 2012 482 notes
138. Breitman/Lichtman, FDR and the Jews 2013 868 notes
139. Medoff, FDR and the Holocaust 2013 314 notes
140. Medoff, The Anguish of a Jewish Leader 2015 336 notes
141. Engel, In the Shadow of Auschwitz 1987 911 notes
142. Engel, Facing a Holocaust 1993 903 notes
143. Stola, Nadzieja i zaglada 1995 1140 notes
144. Puławski, W obliczu Zagłady 2009 2386 notes
145. Zimmerman, Polish Underground and the Jews 2015 2067 notes
146. Bloxham, Genocide on Trial 2001 989 notes
147. Douglas, The Memory of Judgment 2001 465 notes
148. Weinke, Die Verfolgung von NS-Tätern im geteilten Deutschland 2002 1499 notes
149. Weindling, Nazi Medicine and the Nuremberg Trials 2004 2189 notes
150. Hasian, Rhetorical Vectors of Memory 2006 986 notes
151. Heberer/Matthäus (eds), Atrocities on Trial 2008 886 notes
152. Weinke, Eine Gesellschaft ermittelt gegen sich selbst 2008 728 notes
153. Mallmann/Angrick (eds), Die Gestapo nach 1945 2009
154. Hebert, Hitler’s Generals on Trial 2010 870 notes
155. Segev, Simon Wiesenthal 2010 1026 notes
156. Heller, The Nuremberg Military Tribunals 2011 2400 notes
157. Eichmüller, Keine Generalamnestie 2012 1352 notes
158. Raim, Justiz zwischen Diktatur und Demokratie 2013 5422 notes
159. Tisseron, La France et le process de Nuremberg 2014 749 notes
160. Jockusch/Finder (eds), Jewish Honor Courts 2015 1107 notes
161. Klee, “Euthanasie” im NS-Staat 1983 1606 notes
162. Burleigh, Death and Deliverance 1994 972 notes
163. Riess, Die Anfänge der Vernichtung ‘lebensunwertes Lebens’ 1994
164. Friedlander, The Origins of Nazi Genocide 1995 1745 notes
165. Bryant, Confronting the Good Death 2005
166. Schmidt, Karl Brandt: The Nazi Doctor 2007 1955 notes
167. Aly, Die Belasteten 2013 454 notes
168. Krausnick/Wilhelm, Truppen des Weltanschauungskrieges 1981 2107 notes
169. Headland, Messages of Mass Murder 1992 1168 notes
170. Ogorreck, Die Einsatzgruppen und die ‘Genesis der Endlösung’ 1996 780 notes
171. Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial 2009 1352 notes
172. Heer/Naumann (eds), Vernichtungskrieg 1995 1482 notes
173. Manoschek (ed), Die Wehrmacht im Rassenkrieg 1996 412 notes
174. Dean, Collaboration in the Holocaust 2000 1019 notes
175. Altman, Zhertvy nenavisti 2002
176. Curilla, Die deutsche Ordnungspolizei und der Holocaust 2006 8270 notes
177. Kay, Exploitation, Resettlement, Mass Murder 2006 953 notes
178. Huerter, Hitlers Heerfuehrer 2007 2594 notes
179. Pohl, Die Herrschaft der Wehrmacht 2008 1404 notes
180. Arad, Holocaust in the Soviet Union 2009 1747 notes
181. Bauer, The Death of the Shtetl 2009 328 notes
182. Hasenclever, Wehrmacht und Besatzungspolitik 2010 3107 notes
183. Kay/Rutherford/Stahel (eds), Nazi Policy on the Eastern Front, 1941 2012 1053 notes
184. Streit, Keine Kameraden 1978/1991 1780 notes
185. Römer, Der Kommissarbefehl 2008 2175 notes
186. Keller, Sowjetische Kriegsgefangene im Deutschen Reich 1941/42 2011 1591 notes
187. Shneyer, Pariahs Among Pariahs 2016
188. Spector, Holocaust of Volhynian Jewry 1986 (1990) 750 notes
189. Berkhoff, Harvest of Despair 2004 1620 notes
190. Kruglov, The Losses Suffered by Ukrainian Jews 2005 1508 notes
191. Lower, Nazi Empire-Building 2005 756 notes
192. Brandon/Lower (eds), The Shoah in Ukraine 2008 1105 notes
193. Christ, Die Dynamik des Tötens 2011 616 notes
194. Burds, The Holocaust in Rovno 2013 222 notes
195. Angrick, Besatzungspolitik und Massenmord 2003 1933 notes
196. Oldenburg, Ideologie und militärische Kalkül 2004 1299 notes
197. Kunz, Die Krim unter deutscher Herrschaft 1941-1944 2005 ?
198. Wrochem, von, Erich von Manstein: Vernichtungskrieg 2006 (2009) 1795 notes
199. Feferman, The Holocaust in the Crimea and the North Caucasus 2016 1887 notes
200. Cholawsky, The Jews of Bielorussia during World War II 1982 (1998) 576 notes
201. Gerlach, Kalkulierte Morde 1999 6309 notes
202. Shepherd, War in the Wild East 2004 704 notes
203. Epstein, The Minsk Ghetto 2008 389 notes
204. Hartmann, Wehrmacht im Ostkrieg 2009 4871 notes
205. Brakel, Unter Rotem Stern und Hakenkreuz 2009 2020 notes
206. Quinkert, Propaganda und Terror 2009 1920 notes
207. Rentrop, Tatorte der ‘Endloesung’ 2011 969 notes
208. Rein, The Kings and the Pawns 2011 1472 notes
209. Cohen, Smolensk under the Nazis 2013 1223 notes
210. Beorn, Marching into Darkness 2014 1055 notes
211. Pieper, Fegelein’s Horsemen 2014 811 notes
212. Kay, The Making of an SS Killer 2016 896 notes
213. Kugler, Scherwitz 2004 908 notes
214. Angrick/Klein, The “Final Solution” in Riga 2006 1282 notes
215. Birn, Die Sicherheitspolizei in Estland 2006
216. Weiss-Wendt, Murder Without Hatred 2009 1339 notes
217. Schneppen, Ghettokommandant in Riga 2009 836 notes
218. Dieckmann, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Litauen 2011 6712 notes
219. Reichelt, Lettland unter deutscher Besatzung 1941-1944 2011 1270 notes
220. Wette, Karl Jäger 2011 586 notes
221. Kilian, Wehrmacht und Besatzungsherrschaft im Nordwesten 2012 2854 notes
222. Plath, Zwischen Schonung und Menschenjagd 2012 1786 notes
223. Tauber, Arbeit als Hoffnung: Jüdische Ghettos in Litauen 1941-1944 2015 3020 notes
224. Ioanid, The Holocaust in Romania 2000 1378 notes
225. Solonari, Purifying the Nation 2010 1268 notes
226. Baum, Varianten des Terrors 2011 2595 notes
227. Ancel, The History of the Holocaust in Romania 2011 1909 notes
228. Steinhart, The Holocaust and the Germanization of Ukraine 2015 933 notes
229. Dumitru, The state, antisemitism and collaboration in the Holocaust 2016 1019 notes
230. Trunk, Łódź Ghetto: A History 1962 (2006) 1321 notes
231. Krakowski, Chelmno 2001 459 notes
232. Ziołkowska, Obozy pracy przymusowej 2005 746 notes
233. Alberti, Verfolgung und Vernichtung 2006 1866 notes
234. Löw, Juden im Getto Litzmannstadt 2006 1735 notes
235. Horwitz, Ghettostadt 2008 888 notes
236. Klein, Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 2009 1635 notes
237. Epstein, Model Nazi 2010 1907 notes
238. Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011 675 notes
239. Gutman, The Jews of Warsaw 1982 698 notes
240. Paulsson, Secret City 2002 547 notes
241. Levin, Walls Around 2003 (2004) 411 notes
242. Kassow, Who Will Write Our History? 2007 1193 notes
243. Engelking/Leociak (eds), Prowincja noc 2007 1986 notes
244. Libionka/Weinbaum, Bohaterowie, hochsztaplerzy, opisywacze 2011 1512 notes
245. Klemp, Vernichtung 2013 590 notes
246. Roth/Schmidt, Judenmord in Ostrów Mazowiecka 2013 332 notes
247. Karay, Death Comes in Yellow 1996
248. Seidel, Deutsche Besatzungspolitik in Polen 2006 2032 notes
249. Mlynarczyk, Judenmord in Zentralpolen 2007 1338 notes
250. Browning, Remembering Survival 2010 1449 notes
251. Crowe, Oskar Schindler 2004 1836 notes
252. Grabowski, Hunt for the Jews 2011 (2013) 505 notes
253. Hembera, Die Shoah im Distrikt Krakau (Tarnow) 2016 1548 notes
254. Browning, Ordinary Men 1992 511 notes
255. Pohl, Von der “Judenpolitik” zum Judenmord 1993 863 notes
256. Musial, Deutsche Zivilverwaltung und Judenverfolgung 1999 1384 notes
257. Silberklang, Gates of Tears 2013 748 notes
258. Pohl, Nationalsozialistische Judenverfolgung in Ostgalizien 1996 2153 notes
259. Sandkühler, “Endlösung” in Galizien 1996 1050 notes
260. Redlich, Together and Apart in Brzezany 2002 371 notes
261. Bartov, Erased 2007 190 notes
262. Struve, Deutsche Herrschaft 2015
263. Bender, The Jews of Bialystok 1997 (2008) 1018 notes
264. Gross, Neighbors 2000 (2001) 169 notes
265. Zbikowski, U genezy Jedwabnego 2006 940 notes
266. Stoll, Die Herstellung der Wahrheit 2012 2041 notes
267. Schwindt, Majdanek 2005 1475 notes
268. Mailander, Female SS Guards and Workaday Violence 2009 (2015) 1408 notes
269. Lenarcyzk/Libionka (eds), Erntefest 2009 1518 notes
270. Rossino, Hitler Strikes Poland 2003 1100 notes
271. Böhler, Auftakt zum Vernichtungskrieg 2006 1110 notes
272. Wardzyńska, Był rok 1939 2009 277 notes
273. Majer, “Non-Germans” Under the Third Reich 1981 (2013) 3935 notes
274. Krakowski, The War of the Doomed 1984 565 notes
275. Tomaszewski/Werbowski, Code Name: Zegota 1994 (2010) 74 notes
276. Housden, Hans Frank and Lebensraum 2003 1411 notes
277. Jockheck, Propaganda im Generalgouvernement 2006 1116 notes
278. Schenk, Hans Frank 2006 1442 notes
279. Loose, Kredite für NS-Verbrechen 2007 2023 notes
280. Rutherford, Prelude to the Final Solution 2007 744 notes
281. Roth, Herrenmenschen 2009 1233 notes
282. Curilla, Der Judenmord in Polen 2011 8405 notes
283. Gross, Golden Harvest 2011 (2012) 180 notes
284. Żbikowski, Karski 2011 375 notes
285. Medykowski, W cieniu gigantow 2012 686 notes
286. Böhler/Lehnstaedt (eds), Gewalt und Alltag im besetzten Polen 2012
287. Arad, Belzec Sobibor Treblinka 1987 688 notes
288. Schelvis, Sobibor 1998/2003 662 notes
289. Musial (ed), Aktion Reinhard 2004 1296 notes
290. Poprzeczny, Hitler’s Man in the East: Odilo Globocnik 2004 463 notes
291. Rieger, Creator of Nazi Death Camps 2007 551 notes
292. Kuwalek, Das Vernichtungslager Belzec 2011/2013 713 notes
293. Berger, Experten der Vernichtung 2013 1698 notes
294. Rashke, Useful Enemies 2013 542 notes
295. Bryant, Eyewitness to Genocide 2014 667 notes
296. Benz, Handlager der SS 2015 1185 notes
297. Wienert, Das Lager vorstellen 2015
298. Safrian, Eichmann’s Men 1993 (2010) 1109 notes
299. Lozowick, Hitler’s Bureaucrats 2000 (2002) 787 notes
300. Yablonka, The State of Israel vs Adolf Eichmann 2001 (2004) 843 notes
301. Wojak, Eichmanns Memoiren 2001
302. Cesarani, Eichmann 2004 1024 notes
303. Stangneth, Eichmann Before Jerusalem 2011 (2014) 1406 notes
304. Browning, The Final Solution and the German Foreign Office 1978 811 notes
305. Döscher, Das Auswärtige Amt im Dritten Reich 1987 1085 notes
306. Weitkamp, Braune Diplomaten 2008 2112 notes
307. Conzeet al, Das Amt und die Vergangenheit 2010
308. Adler, The Jews of Paris and the Final Solution 1985 (1987) 924 notes
309. Poznanski, Jews in France during World War II 1997 (2001) 2446 notes
310. Lafitte, Un engrenage fatal 2003 913 notes
311. Brunner, Die Frankreich-Komplex 2004 1257 notes
312. Meyer, Täter im Verhör 2005 1,599 notes
313. Lieb, Konventioneller Krieg oder NS-Weltanschauungskrieg? 2007
314. Seibel, Persecution and Rescue 2010 (2016) 944 notes
315. Wieviorka/Lafitte, A l’intérieur du camp de Drancy 2012 490 notes
316. Semelin, Persecutions et entraides dans la France occupee 2013
317. Michman (ed), Belgium and the Holocaust 1998 1143 notes
318. Van Doorslaer (ed), La Belgique docile 2007 4252 notes
319. Meinen, Die Shoah in Belgien 2012 552 notes
320. Meinen/Meyer, Verfolgt von Land zu Land 2013 660 notes
321. Moore, Victims and Survivors 1997 914 notes
322. Ritz, Schreibtischtäter vor Gericht 2012 743 notes
323. Steinberg, All or Nothing 1990 799 notes
324. Mazower, Inside Hitler’s Greece 1993 807 notes
325. Guttstadt, Die Türkei, die Juden und der Holocaust 2008
326. Bowman, The Agony of Greek Jewry 2009 760 notes
327. Moore, Survivors 2010 1508 notes
328. Meyer, Das Wissen um Auschwitz 2010 556 notes
329. Fulbrook, A Small Town Near Auschwitz 2012 873 notes
330. Korb, Im Schatten des Weltkrieges 2013
331. Rabinovici, Eichmann’s Jews 2000 (2011) 735 notes
332. Rothkirchen, The Jews of Bohemia & Moravia 2005 1440 notes
333. Gottwaldt/Schulle, Die Judendeportationen aus dem deutschen Reich 2005
334. Osterloh, Nationalsozialistische Judenverfolgung im Sudetenland 2006
335. Meyer, A Fatal Balancing Act 2011 (2013) 1513 notes
336. Jah, Die Deportation der Juden aus Berlin 2013
337. Kuller, Bürokratie und Verbrechen 2013
338. Gruner, Die Judenverfolgung im Protektorat 2016 1823 notes
339. Ben-Tov, Facing the Holocaust in Budapest 1988 690 notes
340. Kranzler, The Man Who Stopped The Trains to Auschwitz 2000 864 notes
341. Gerlach/Aly, Das letzte Kapitel 2002 1870 notes
342. Cole, Holocaust City 2003 788 notes
343. Levine, Raul Wallenberg in Budapest 2010 951 notes
344. Bogdanor, Kasztner’s Crime 2016 790 notes
345. Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz 1994 318 notes
346. Gutman/Berenbaum (eds), Anatomy of the Auschwitz 1994 1160 notes
347. Dlugoborski/Piper (eds), Auschwitz 1940-1945, 5 vols 1995/2000 3286 notes
348. Dwork/Pelt, Auschwitz 1996 679 notes
349. Wagner, IG Auschwitz 2000 1308 notes
350. Steinbacher, ‘Musterstadt’ Auschwitz 2000 1632 notes
351. Pelt, van, The Case for Auschwitz 2002 931 notes
352. Friedler/Siebert/Kilian, Zeugen aus der Todeszone 2002 895 notes
353. Zürcher, Wir machten die schwarzen Arbeit des Holocaust 2004 839 notes
354. Pendas, The Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial 2006 1227 notes
355. Dirks, “Die Verbrechen der anderen” 2006 1275 notes
356. Knopp, Wir lebten mitten im Tod 2009 380 notes
357. Schüle, Industrie und Holocaust 2010 1301 notes
358. Lang, Die Frauen von Block 10 2011 713 notes
359. Stengel, Hermann Langbein 2012 2219 notes
360. Fleming, Auschwitz, The Allies and Censorship 2014 847 notes
361. Greif/Levin, Aufstand in Auschwitz 2015 446 notes
362. Dobosiewicz, Vernichtungslager Gusen 1977 (2007) 347 notes
363. Pingel, Häftlinge unter SS-Herrschaft 1978 578 notes
364. Herbert/Dieckmann/Orth (eds), Die nationalsozialistischen KL 1998
365. Orth, Das System der nationalsozialistischen KL 1999 1234 notes
366. Wenck, Zwischen Menschenhandel und “Endlösung” 2000 1461 notes
367. Orth, Die Konzentrationslager-SS 2000
368. Lotfi, KZ der Gestapo 2000
369. Schulte, Zwangsarbeit und Vernichtung 2001 1778 notes
370. Allen, The Business of Genocide 2002 726 notes
371. Strebel, Das KZ Ravensbrück 2003 2625 notes
372. Kaienburg, Die Wirtschaft der SS 2003 3688 notes
373. Steegman, Natzweiler 2005 (2010) 1985 notes
374. Kaienburg, Der Militär- und Wirtschaftskomplex Oranienburg 2006 1208 notes
375. Gutternan, A Narrow Bridge to Life 2008 725 notes
376. Buggeln, Arbeit & Gewalt (translated as Slave Labor) 2009 1976 notes
377. Schalm, Überleben durch Arbeit? 2009
378. Caplan/Wachsmann (eds), Concentration Camps in Nazi Germany 2010 675 notes
379. Blatman, The Death Marches 2011 1836 notes
380. Weigelt, Judenmord im Reichsgebiet 2011 2388 notes
381. Jardim, The Mauthausen Trial 2012 616 notes
382. Adam, Die Arbeiterfrage soll mot Hilfe von KZ-Häftlingen gelöst w.. 2013 1890 notes
383. Rudorff, Frauen in den Aussenlagern des KL Gross-Rosen 2014 1640 notes
384. Scheck, Zwangsarbeit und Massensterben 2014 942 notes
385. Weindling, Victims and Survivors of Nazi Human Expts 2015 1042 notes
386. Pauer-Studer/Velleman, Konrad Morgen 2015 510 notes
387. Wachsmann, KL 2015 3423 notes
388. Wünschmann, Before Auschwitz 2015 1069 notes
389. Stone, The Liberation of the Camps 2015 739 notes
390. Hördler, Ordnung und Inferno 2015 2086 notes
391. Dillon, Dachau and the SS 2015 1439 notes
392. Keller, Volksgemeinschaft am Ende 2013

How it works: on any given topic, all recent titles that explored relevant source bases, regardless of language = what one should read. To give the example of Chelmno, while Montague's book on Chelmno is the most recent study, it did not use the Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt records which contain innumerable contemporary documents about SS-Sonderkommando Kulmhof; these are discussed by Alberti and Klein. One would realistically expect someone to read at least one of Epstein, Horwitz, Loew, or Trunk re the Lodz ghetto/Warthegau.

230. Trunk, Łódź Ghetto: A History 1962 (2006) 1321 notes
231. Krakowski, Chelmno 2001 459 notes
232. Ziołkowska, Obozy pracy przymusowej 2005 746 notes
233. Alberti, Verfolgung und Vernichtung 2006 1866 notes
234. Löw, Juden im Getto Litzmannstadt 2006 1735 notes
235. Horwitz, Ghettostadt 2008 888 notes
236. Klein, Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt 2009 1635 notes
237. Epstein, Model Nazi 2010 1907 notes
238. Montague, Chelmno and the Holocaust 2011 675 notes

Fortunately for non-German readers as well as cheapskates/lazybones who don't want to go to bookstores or libraries, Hans Metzner at HC has been blogging about Chelmno for some time, presenting translations of key sources as well as facsimiles, including from the Gettoverwaltung Litzmannstadt records.

It would be impossible to take seriously anyone who has not absorbed, at least via the secondary literature, the significance of the GVL sources for our knowledge and understanding of Chelmno, just as it would be impossible to take seriously anyone who ignored the 1945 Polish investigation or the early 1960s West German investigation of Chelmno.
Thank you and I have read your opinion and understand your position. This is a good start for the forum and I sincerely hope it sets the bar a little higher from now on. But with all due respects, (seriously) I'm not a beginner at researching history and so for that reason I can't accept your particular prerequisites on what is acceptable for authority/authorities. And in fact, not being able to produce an authority on which to judge the credence of the entire argument in favor of the holocaust, indicates a weakness with the entire proposition. No other debater on any other historical topic would dare to make such unreasonable demands.

And so respectfully, I hope we can continue the debate in this same spirit. Please don't disappoint by returning to the personal insults and spam which is common to all the others.

If you care to promote any authority that dates back to the 40's then please do. And if you don't then I'll choose the one from your list that serves my own purpose as a skeptic.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:23 pm

Has he read any of the books on Nick's list? Or is he narrowing his question to wriggle out of the problem he's created for himself?
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:28 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Has he read any of the books on Nick's list? Or is he narrowing his question to wriggle out of the problem he's created for himself?
:lol: Apparently :no:

It's only Dunning-Krugering and spouting stuff like this in its waffling:
montgomery wrote:This is a good start for the forum and I sincerely hope it sets the bar a little higher from now on.
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by nickterry » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:01 pm

montgomery wrote: Thank you and I have read your opinion and understand your position. This is a good start for the forum and I sincerely hope it sets the bar a little higher from now on. But with all due respects, (seriously) I'm not a beginner at researching history and so for that reason I can't accept your particular prerequisites on what is acceptable for authority/authorities. And in fact, not being able to produce an authority on which to judge the credence of the entire argument in favor of the holocaust, indicates a weakness with the entire proposition. No other debater on any other historical topic would dare to make such unreasonable demands.

And so respectfully, I hope we can continue the debate in this same spirit. Please don't disappoint by returning to the personal insults and spam which is common to all the others.

If you care to promote any authority that dates back to the 40's then please do. And if you don't then I'll choose the one from your list that serves my own purpose as a skeptic.
I'm sorry, but once again: that's not how it works. Historical research is collective, cumulative and it progresses, because past errors are corrected and new sources/source bases are assessed and incorporated into a field of study. You don't get to pick and choose an Aunt Sally target while ignoring the sum total of work done on any topic.

Your belief that authoritative studies are routinely produced within five years of events is rather unrealistic. There aren't substantial publications on countless aspects of the Second World War dating from the 1940s. The US Army in World War II official history series started appearing in 1946 but the last volume didn't appear until 1985. Only two of eleven volumes produced on the war in the Pacific appeared in the 1940s, the rest in the 1950s. The Dutch official history of the Second World War appeared between 1969 and 1994.

The request is even more dubious for comparable events such as Stalinist terror. Dallin/Nicolaevsky's Forced Labor in Soviet Russia appeared in 1947, ten years after the start of the Great Terror; the first comprehensive study of the terror, Robert Conquest's The Great Terror, appeared only in 1968, thirty years after the main wave ended. Both missed significant aspects of Stalinist terror which did not become fully apparent until the 1990s with the opening of the former Soviet archives.

Conquest's The Great Terror is a salutary example of the problems with overemphasising the early works on any subject. The account he presents wasn't as clear about certain aspects of the Terror that we now know from archival sources declassified after the collapse of communism in 1991, and Conquest significantly overestimated the death tolls/extent for the GULag, sometimes by a factor of four, as did many other researchers in the 1950s to 1980s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Death_toll
This immediately relativises the 'Auschwitz 4 million' meme and shows that the extent/scale of events can easily be overestimated.

Very frequently, in non-authoritarian states, government documents are not declassified and made available to researchers for 20 or 30 years after the events. So in many cases, accounts of recent events/current affairs will be journalistic for 20-30 years after events.

The history of the Third Reich and Holocaust benefited from the more rapid declassification of captured German documents, but these were still in the process of being catalogued right through the 1950s. Raul Hilberg's 1955 dissertation published in 1961 as The Destruction of European Jews benefited considerably from his involvement in the US Army microfilming project that preserved copies of the documents in the US before they were restituted to West Germany. For this reason, his work still stands up in many respects today, although his interpretations have often been superseded and his 'errors of emphasis' corrected.

There are of course numerous 1940s accounts of the Holocaust - these exist in trial judgements, investigative reports, journalistic works, early summaries of specific aspects/sites, and some fairly impressive 'first draft' overviews. Philip Friedman, a trained historian, wrote a good summary overview of the Holocaust in Poland for the Polish Main Commission's German Crimes in Poland series of books in the 1940s:
https://phdn.org/archives/www.ess.uwe.a ... gcpol5.htm
https://phdn.org/archives/www.ess.uwe.a ... gcpol6.htm
The course of events as we understand them today is recognisable in this early draft; many of the details are also confirmed by subsequent research, and his overall statistics for the country plus different phases are in the same ballpark as today's calculations (but remember Conquest's overestimates of Stalinist terror!).

Early accounts of Auschwitz, including Jan Sehn's report for German Crimes in Poland as well as Ota Kraus and Erich Kulka's Tovarna na smrt (1947 - The Auschwitz Death Factory in English) plus Philip Friedman's To jest Oswiecim (1945; shortened English version 1946) all present recognisable accounts of the camp. They all overestimated the death toll - again, see Conquest and other overestimates for other mass crimes - but the essentials are there.

The sum total of evidence for Auschwitz we can now access, from both the war years as well as the immediate aftermath, with multiple investigations and historical commissions gathering evidence across different European countries, is infinitely greater than the evidence these early authors used or could access themselves in 1945-1947.

Since primary sources have primacy, real or apparent errors in secondary accounts are things to be corrected and revised by later accounts,which is how it works not just with Auschwitz/The Holocaust but with Stalinism and any other historical era/event.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:47 am

nickterry wrote:
montgomery wrote: Thank you and I have read your opinion and understand your position. This is a good start for the forum and I sincerely hope it sets the bar a little higher from now on. But with all due respects, (seriously) I'm not a beginner at researching history and so for that reason I can't accept your particular prerequisites on what is acceptable for authority/authorities. And in fact, not being able to produce an authority on which to judge the credence of the entire argument in favor of the holocaust, indicates a weakness with the entire proposition. No other debater on any other historical topic would dare to make such unreasonable demands.

And so respectfully, I hope we can continue the debate in this same spirit. Please don't disappoint by returning to the personal insults and spam which is common to all the others.

If you care to promote any authority that dates back to the 40's then please do. And if you don't then I'll choose the one from your list that serves my own purpose as a skeptic.
I'm sorry, but once again: that's not how it works. Historical research is collective, cumulative and it progresses, because past errors are corrected and new sources/source bases are assessed and incorporated into a field of study. You don't get to pick and choose an Aunt Sally target while ignoring the sum total of work done on any topic.
You're getting a little longwinded and off topic Nick, but I'll bear with you. Just be assured that anybody who promotes a bad witness or in this case a liar or exaggerator, is responsible for doing that. And then will have to face derision from an equal debating opponent. Otherwise, I don't disagree on the rest re. the sum total.

And to the point once again, state your preferred authority from the 40's and give me something to work with.
Your belief that authoritative studies are routinely produced within five years of events is rather unrealistic. There aren't substantial publications on countless aspects of the Second World War dating from the 1940s. The US Army in World War II official history series started appearing in 1946 but the last volume didn't appear until 1985. Only two of eleven volumes produced on the war in the Pacific appeared in the 1940s, the rest in the 1950s. The Dutch official history of the Second World War appeared between 1969 and 1994.
For a different sort of look at history see Barry Broadfoot's series of books. Especially see "The War Years". It's authored by Broadfoot but written by dozens of military people, and others who speak in their own words. You won't find any better raw truth.

There's no reason why I shouldn't expect the same on the holocaust. If it can't be presented then it's a very big problem for Holocaut promoting historians.

I'm with you as long as you remain polite and credible with your replies.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Balsamo » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:58 am

But with all due respects, (seriously) I'm not a beginner at researching history and so for that reason I can't accept your particular prerequisites on what is acceptable for authority/authorities.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well Monty, you really got me on this one!
Sincerely thank you for the loudest laugh i had tonight. You should try Wherever you are from GOT TALENT...i am pretty sure Simon is gonna fall in love...
Amazing.

Didn't you ask what EG stood for?
Didn't you ask to be shown the Krema on a picture of those very same Krema?
Didn't you ask recently what books could be recommended?
Didn't you ask who Piper from the Auschwitz Museum was?
Did you actually answer any question you have been asked?

It seems that giving a at least credible shape to your "online character" is too much for you.

Thanks anyway :lol: :lol:

Dammed, i missed that one.
Monty:
I'm with you as long as you remain polite and credible with your replies.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You are really gonna be a star...keep on.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:09 am

I think it's about time that we started to close in on the topic Balsamo, and root out some facts. Chief among them is the question on whether or not any eye witness or historian can provide testimony from the 40's or very early 50's. And if they can't because all sources are tainted with exaggerations and lies, then in my opinion, the holocaust story must fall.

Therein lies the challenge I'm respectfully putting to doctor Terry. If he fails to do that then I'll research his list and pick one expert from the 40's that will make my case for me. And it won't stop there either.

In truth Balsamo, I suspect that I already know the answer why nobody has had the courage to put forward their expert witness or historian! I'll leave you with that to ponder.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:22 am

What is montgomery going on about? His witness requests have been answered repeatedly, and Nick's explained, very patiently, to him why his "one expert from the 40's" gambit is beside the point - and not how it works ("Historical research is collective, cumulative and it progresses, because past errors are corrected and new sources/source bases are assessed and incorporated into a field of study. You don't get to pick and choose an Aunt Sally target while ignoring the sum total of work done on any topic. . . . Since primary sources have primacy, real or apparent errors in secondary accounts are things to be corrected and revised by later accounts . . .").
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Balmoral95 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:32 am

"What is montgomery going on about? "

Or the retard little brother....

40 days and counting of wasted time here, effectively no moderation... It only happens because it's tolerated. Smith and Dumbcheck wouldn't put up with it... AHF, the duo gone in 48 hours... but we have two traitor members who think it's just facking dandy... New forum is on the way.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:37 am

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:41 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:What is montgomery going on about? His witness requests have been answered repeatedly, and Nick's explained, very patiently, to him why his "one expert from the 40's" gambit is beside the point - and not how it works ("Historical research is collective, cumulative and it progresses, because past errors are corrected and new sources/source bases are assessed and incorporated into a field of study. You don't get to pick and choose an Aunt Sally target while ignoring the sum total of work done on any topic. . . . Since primary sources have primacy, real or apparent errors in secondary accounts are things to be corrected and revised by later accounts . . .").
:oops: Just one numbnuts! Could it be that one unblemished eye witness or historian doesn't exist on this planet? Just one that didn't invent lampshades or methods of steaming seafood ? :oops:

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:47 am

You decided you didn’t want to discuss any one of the three eyewitnesses I named for Treblinka. Or do you forget that?

In the meantime, please, your thoughts on the testimony collections I posted links to?
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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:50 am

https://www.amazon.com/Expulsion-Exterm ... 187.html#2

That one by Bankler doesn't even seem to be published yet! Or is it such a wet rag that Amazon or other sellers won't list it. Nope! That one fails and I'm not going to do your homework by going through your list of gags to find one that dates to the 40's.

And especially when you've told me that the good doctor pretty well said one doesn't exist. And doesn't have to exist either, so there! Idiot numbnuts.

Fill your boots fast or I'm going to own you.

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Re: a memory thread: "(((they))) never let us forget"

Post by montgomery » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:52 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:You decided you didn’t want to discuss any one of the three eyewitnesses I named for Treblinka. Or do you forget that?

In the meantime, please, your thoughts on the testimony collections I posted links to?
You know the rules of the game now. Produce one or toddle off to your housefly hobby.

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