because we need a music thread . . .

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:04 pm

Chan Marshall backed by the Hi Rhythm Section, LeRoy and Teenie Hodges:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVGgGW1ZalY

grrrr, the bbcode for videos no longer works for me ...
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:08 pm

A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:09 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:08 pm
On my way home I heard these songs:


https://youtu.be/M4dewi7Ur9Q

https://youtu.be/jLwZvg46jms

https://youtu.be/Nco_kh8xJDs
love the middle one, hate the lack of bbcode functionality!
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:12 pm

Yeah, me too. Not liking the new format.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:17 pm

Too many glitches to know, for sure. My preference for view has flipped a few times to the generic view. No thanks button. ID for quoted member runs about half a mile long. What else?
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:31 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:17 pm
Too many glitches to know, for sure. My preference for view has flipped a few times to the generic view. No thanks button. ID for quoted member runs about half a mile long. What else?
Not that I can tell, I’ve been busy at work all day.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:52 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:31 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:17 pm
Too many glitches to know, for sure. My preference for view has flipped a few times to the generic view. No thanks button. ID for quoted member runs about half a mile long. What else?
Not that I can tell, I’ve been busy at work all day.
I've been told that in some Help thread somewhere users are giving Pyrrho feedback. I'm not concerned, he will fix the glitches in due time. The forum is now running fine and we can post and discuss, that's what matters. Although I do prefer videos showing up when we post them :)
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:00 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:52 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:31 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:17 pm
Too many glitches to know, for sure. My preference for view has flipped a few times to the generic view. No thanks button. ID for quoted member runs about half a mile long. What else?
Not that I can tell, I’ve been busy at work all day.
I've been told that in some Help thread somewhere users are giving Pyrrho feedback. I'm not concerned, he will fix the glitches in due time. The forum is now running fine and we can post and discuss, that's what matters. Although I do prefer videos showing up when we post them :)
Me, too.
I am surprised you don’t like Social Distortion. Or is it just that song?
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:04 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:00 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:52 pm
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:31 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:17 pm
Too many glitches to know, for sure. My preference for view has flipped a few times to the generic view. No thanks button. ID for quoted member runs about half a mile long. What else?
Not that I can tell, I’ve been busy at work all day.
I've been told that in some Help thread somewhere users are giving Pyrrho feedback. I'm not concerned, he will fix the glitches in due time. The forum is now running fine and we can post and discuss, that's what matters. Although I do prefer videos showing up when we post them :)
Me, too.
I am surprised you don’t like Social Distortion. Or is it just that song?
I just noted the song I particularly like. Social Distortion to me was meh, ok but I didn't go out of my way to listen them after buying one of their CDs. I can't remember it now. "Life During Wartime" OTOH was an epoch in and of itself.

Homage to dada from "Fear of Music" - "I Zimbra":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tyVn2ZDJ-Y
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:19 am

I saw “Stop Making Sense” years ago on an old VHS tape. One of my favorite bands. I watched David Byrne on Austin City Limits one night.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:18 am

I saw the Talking Heads twice - the first time with B-52s at some college or high school auditorium on Long Island somewhere; the second time IIRC with Pearl Harbor and the Explosions and the Necessaries in 1979 at the Capitol Theater in Jersey City. About a year before this was shot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-_PC6TlIhs
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:09 am

I don’t think you would like any bands I saw live.

:D

I haven’t been to a concert in years. Best concert I ever saw in a large venue was Rush in 1993. Strangest venue for a concert I ever went to was at the Mabee Center in Tulsa. What’s that? Why, it’s the Oral Roberts concert hall. It’s located right in the middle of Oral Roberts University. I saw Huey Lewis and the News.

I did see Crosby, Stills and Nash at the Brady Theater in Tulsa. It’s this small theater downtown. It was just the three of them playing guitars and singing. Very cool.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by montgomery » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:35 am

More favorite music and a few myths exploded: https://www.theguardian.com/music/music ... ectionexpl
Hitler: not just a crazed Wagnerian? Photograph: PA

Damn! Bang goes the neat theory that Hitler was a crazed Wagnerian who staged the immolation in the Berlin bunker as a kind of personal Götterdämmerung - an opera designer's wet dream. An article in Der Spiegel, now echoing across the media world, suggests that far from being just a Wagner maniac, he also adored Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov - degenerate music according to official Nazi policy. Hitler, says Spiegel, also doted on recordings by two prominent Jewish soloists - the Polish-born violinist Bronislaw Huberman and the Austrian pianist Artur Schnabel.
How contradictory is that?
I can smell some lies that were told about official Nazi policy. Can we expect anything else?

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Balmoral95 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:55 am

I read this in the Guardian as part of my research.... HAHAHAHAHAHA... another nail in the coffin..... HAHAHA......

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:18 pm

Dolfie despised good music as much as Drumpf is a devout Christian - so what. :lol:
.
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:22 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:18 pm
Dolfie despised good music as much as Drumpf is a devout Christian - so what. :lol:

Wasn’t much of an artist or architect, either.
:D
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 11:02 pm

A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:12 am

new Joe Strummer song

https://youtu.be/W-jG61vikwg
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Darren Wilshak » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:48 am

A friend of mine was in Scotland and over the sea to Skye and he hiked out to visit Rebel's wood as he was a big fan of Joe Strummer and the Clash.

https://joestrummerfoundation.org/updat ... bels-wood/

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Balsamo » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:21 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:12 am
new Joe Strummer song

https://youtu.be/W-jG61vikwg
My God!
I mean did you post it because you liked it?
This time i managed to hold on listening for 1.10 min...Is there something i might have missed after them?

What about a change of the title of this thread? :mrgreen:
What about " old and recent creative experimentation under the "music" label in recent Western History?

I already left... :lol:

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Balsamo » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:22 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:48 am
A friend of mine was in Scotland and over the sea to Skye and he hiked out to visit Rebel's wood as he was a big fan of Joe Strummer and the Clash.

https://joestrummerfoundation.org/updat ... bels-wood/
Thanks Darren,

At least you link does not have a nasty soundtrack... Scotland is a wonderful place. ;)

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:27 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:21 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:12 am
new Joe Strummer song

https://youtu.be/W-jG61vikwg
My God!
I mean did you post it because you liked it?
This time i managed to hold on listening for 1.10 min...Is there something i might have missed after them?

What about a change of the title of this thread? :mrgreen:
What about " old and recent creative experimentation under the "music" label in recent Western History?

I already left... :lol:
So-so. I posted it mostly as a curiosity. His best days were like this when he was with an obscure experimental creative "music" outfit called The Clash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96UtZPLiT90

I thought Darren might be interested, actually, if he didn't already know that there's a release of Strummer stuff.
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:37 pm

One of my favorite covers:

https://youtu.be/tR3XY6wfSBw

Favorite song from the Clash:

https://youtu.be/4vHvzybkqfo
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:54 pm

A song that made me go WTF??? when I first heard it.

https://youtu.be/BDHidMlViMc

Probably didn’t help I was stoned out of my mind...

Oops, that’s gonna wind up at RODOH.

Holy Moly!!!
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:34 pm

Both great Clash songs. I was partial to their first LP but so much of their stuff was so good, through London Calling. And I loved me some Pixies, Surfer Rosa being a stellar LP. I saw The Breeders, with Kim Deal from the Pixies, open for a band from Seattle called Nirvana in 1993.
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:38 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:34 pm
Both great Clash songs. I was partial to their first LP but so much of their stuff was so good, through London Calling. And I loved me some Pixies, Surfer Rosa being a stellar LP. I saw The Breeders, with Kim Deal from the Pixies, open for a band from Seattle called Nirvana in 1993.
My exposure to bands like the Clash, The Ramones and the Pixies started after I started at the university with friends exposing me to college radio. I knew who the Clash was due to some of the bigger hits but things like "London Calling" didn't get played on MTV. Or local radio. Before then it was classic rock and heavy metal. Grunge started its run about the same time so I felt pretty lucky to have all this great music around.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Darren Wilshak » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:24 am

Music is music is music, if you wish to post your faves then please do Balsamo, perhaps you tend toward the Western Classical Tradition. I have to say I am partial to the Marriage of Figaro as much as I am to the music of the Clash.

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:19 pm

In "classical" music my favorite composers tend to be more recent: Stravinsky, Ives, Tcherepnin (ok, he was one of our closest friends), Bartok, Martirano, Shostakovich, and Prokofiev. But I like older guys too. My wife and I go to Chicago Symphony probably 6 or so times a year. Our friend Ivan Tcherepnin really loved The Swans.
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:25 pm

I seem to like Russian composers, I guess. Now, as to Kanye West, leaving aside that I find his music extremely dull, WTF?
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:03 pm

I barely know who Kanye West is. But it’s very telling who Trump attracts. I mean, FFS, Kanye West and Ted Nugent.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:59 pm

I'm kind of the same re: Kanye West, except that I had the misfortune of having a trainer (who broke my foot, but that's another story) who insisted Kanye West is the greatest musical artist of a generation and got me to listen to some of his stuff. Like Balsamo with The Clash, I was unable to get all the way through any one of the dozen or so songs I was meant to hear. My wife told me that he is married to a Kardashian, speaking of notorious people I know little about.

OTOH I heard this very simple ukulele ditty today:
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:51 pm

Ah, yes. Thanks for posting. I saw that as well and thought it brilliant.
One of the more disgusting things I’ve seen on-line is blaming Ford for apparently wanting to go hang out with friends. I mean, c’mon, shouldn’t a 15-year-old know better????
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by nickterry » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:09 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:19 pm
In "classical" music my favorite composers tend to be more recent: Stravinsky, Ives, Tcherepnin (ok, he was one of our closest friends), Bartok, Martirano, Shostakovich, and Prokofiev. But I like older guys too. My wife and I go to Chicago Symphony probably 6 or so times a year. Our friend Ivan Tcherepnin really loved The Swans.
someone mentioned Swans....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWwtH9Yr54

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Balsamo » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:17 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:24 am
Music is music is music, if you wish to post your faves then please do Balsamo, perhaps you tend toward the Western Classical Tradition. I have to say I am partial to the Marriage of Figaro as much as I am to the music of the Clash.
:lol: :lol:
Actually i did not expect to be taken seriously.
Jeffk mentioned the Clash, the Ramones and the Pixies in the same sentence. While i will always maintain that the Clash is one of the most overrated bands in history of R&R - Ramones was just noise - i actually was stuck by the Doolittle Album.
Statmec mentioned the "Talking heads" which i enjoyed back then...Not because i liked all their songs, but because of the constant search of innovation, of new fields...That's really important to me, and yes David Byrne was quite a personality in his way.


But then, he does not stand the comparison with someone like Peter Gabriel, who not only re-invented himself often, but produced master pieces. This guy is a synthesis of talents! The best voice, the best stage front man, a creativity without borders.
Which gave me the idea, to propose a presentation of ONE artist who stands among my "immortals", and i will of course start with Peter Gabriel.
I could do the exercise with many others, but then came David Byrne...
Peter Gabriel is one of the rare who were just great from the start, giving the epic character to an unknown progressive band names Genesis:

Here in 1972:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W35wtfcByIY

By that time, all of them were just unknown lunatics. It was y wife's godmother who served as a roodie, driving them around Belgium in her VW Combi...It was an old friend, famous musical journalist who made it possible for the band to perform on TV.
The story goes that Peter Gabriel got really close with her, and they almost made up...Would have been nice.

This guy was a bloody scenic genius. like in this extract of Genesis "selling England by the pound" tour of 1973.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKIkzGGAG9s&list=RDPRgjecnbqp0&index=3

He turned out to be just too crazy even by Genesis standards, and left the band, and progressive rock to reinvent himself with "Salisbury hills" in 1975, prelude to his first Album called Peter Gabriel which includes one of his first solo master piece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohOEu9R-v0c

He will be one of the first to introduce "world music" in his composition, investing time and money to make third world artists known, like his pal Youssou N'dour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbNkkmbMM0o&list=PLqIy1v23IZFzkSrhZuCEti-pFgfo9bquu


Early into the 80's he still follow HIS WAY, and came up with this kind of performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J0yppewrvg&list=RD9J0yppewrvg&start_radio=1&t=27
Then in 1986, after 4 albums simply called Peter Gabriel (1,2,3,4) came the phenomenon "SO", the so called "commercial one" which is kind of stupid as it contains jewels, of course this one crossed the globe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05TVDCWRBog

But this is the one: the symbol of world music...here with the great Youssou during the "So" tour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UmepmY5jSk
Should be recognized as an "anti-depression" drug.

Two years later, for the famous 70th birthday of Mandela, Peter Gabriel came to sing his 1979 songs dedicated to Steven Biko, a hell of performance.
Here is another version that "talks" more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luVpsM3YAgw

By the way, Cry Freedom is one of the great movie one should watch, one of Denzel Washington first role, he is just superb as usual.


By then he is still only in his 30's...

He would lose some "steam" (one of his song) with is album "US" in 92 (still very good, but less new things)...but the following "Secret World Tour" is probably his best...and the best first buy for anyone tempted to discover Peter Gabriel.

Then in 2002, now in his 50's, he produced my favorite called "Up", with this title - with Pakistani influence is just suberb and as usual...timeless Signal to noise.

Here the only live version with the incredible voice of Nusrat Fateh Ali Kahn...unfortunately not the best version, only the most authentic...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5KcEy3y23w

To conclude, Peter Gabriel has everything i admire in an artist. Talent, creativity, constant innovation which makes his work just timeless. Biko was composed in 1978 but could come out today just the same...He represents the best years of Genesis, although most know better the "Phil Collins' year".
He is just the perfect definition of an artist dedicated to his art, endlessly promoting "world music", through his songs or through his production company, and his dedication to the WOMAD movement.
And whether we like his music or not, this music is just unique...nothing sounds Peter Gabriel, but him.

And his voice is still there, even if now well into his 60's, he grew older, as i did unfortunately...but this song still touches me a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n62hgiQfte4

For those who are father, and especially for those who lost their own father young.
Just beautiful.

I admit we are getting far from "the Fall".

PS: I also admire the fact that some never abandon their early taste, and find amazing that people like Statmec still have pleasure to listen to such things as "the fall"...Which proves that no one actually grows older, only our bloody body does. ;)
Last edited by Balsamo on Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

nickterry
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by nickterry » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:26 pm

My favourite band at the moment are French.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTr7bqKHvgE

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:26 pm

You just know what I think about Peter Gabriel . . .
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:48 pm

nickterry wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:09 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:19 pm
In "classical" music my favorite composers tend to be more recent: Stravinsky, Ives, Tcherepnin (ok, he was one of our closest friends), Bartok, Martirano, Shostakovich, and Prokofiev. But I like older guys too. My wife and I go to Chicago Symphony probably 6 or so times a year. Our friend Ivan Tcherepnin really loved The Swans.
someone mentioned Swans....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWwtH9Yr54
That's just awesome. My wife, calling from the living room as I played it, "What's that? It's amazing." (Thanks for reminding me, yes, Swans, like Cream - not The Creams, not The Swans.)
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by nickterry » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:15 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:48 pm
nickterry wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:09 pm
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:19 pm
In "classical" music my favorite composers tend to be more recent: Stravinsky, Ives, Tcherepnin (ok, he was one of our closest friends), Bartok, Martirano, Shostakovich, and Prokofiev. But I like older guys too. My wife and I go to Chicago Symphony probably 6 or so times a year. Our friend Ivan Tcherepnin really loved The Swans.
someone mentioned Swans....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCWwtH9Yr54
That's just awesome. My wife, calling from the living room as I played it, "What's that? It's amazing." (Thanks for reminding me, yes, Swans, like Cream - not The Creams, not The Swans.)
Gira channelling Cohen + Cash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mWF1kmCo3U

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Balsamo » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:38 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:26 pm
You just know what I think about Peter Gabriel . . .
Euh... Nope! :frown:

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Re: because we need a music thread . . .

Post by Balsamo » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:41 am

nickterry wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:26 pm
My favourite band at the moment are French.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTr7bqKHvgE
That is funny!
I got presented to this band by my 18 years old niece...
She said it was "Hard Core" before playing it...
I was gobbed smacked as i had a different definition of "Hard Core"...an old fashion one.
Then i understood...

:lol:

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