Hospitals in camps.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:52 pm

Lol I found one too, in my desktop folders; I planned to post from it tonight. But if you beat me to it, I don’t have to. I searched quickly and indeed Arad uses the word “infirmary.”
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:43 pm

Ok, from Arad 2/e:

p 64 “infirmary” in SS living area, for SS and Ukrainian guards only

p 251 Shmuel Wilenberg hid in “infirmary” located in a hut to escape punishment

p 268
Among the prisoners in Treblinka were two doctors who were allowed to practice: Dr. Julian Chorazycki, who treated the German patients; and Dr. Irka, who treated the Ukrainians. It was forbidden for either of them to treat sick Jews. Despite this absolute prohibition, however, in the evenings, inside the barracks, these doctors did try to aid the sick prisoners and even administered whatever medicine they could filch from the infirmary.
However,
In the autumn of 1942, even an infirmary was established in the living barracks. At first Dr. Chorazycki treated the sick in the evening, but, later, two prisoner doctors, Dr. Beck and Dr. Reisman, were assigned to this infirmary. But even this new arrangement did not solve the problem, because the number of sick per day greatly exceeded the number fifteen.1 In the other camps, Belzec and Sobibor, even this type of arrangement did not exist.

In the extermination area of Treblinka there was no facility for the treatment of the sick, and those who could not continue working were taken directly to the Lazarett.

Wierknik was treated as a special case as a valuable worker and allowed treatment by a Jews doctor.

The purpose of the infirmary was to combat typhus among the workers in the camp.

p 270
The infirmary in the Lower Camp quickly became filled, and the number of “official” sick was increased—with the authorization of camp authorities—to twenty. Those given first preference to be taken to the infirmary were the capos and those close to them. Among them was the “camp elder,” Galewski, who came down with typhus, and some other ca-pos. Also the informers Chezkel and Kuba became ill, and, out of fear for their health, the authorities ordered that they be brought to the infirmary and treated. Therefore, there was hardly any room in the infirmary for the “plain” sick, and every day tens of people were taken to the Lazarett and shot.

At the same time,
In the extermination area the situation was more acute. There was no medical treatment whatsoever, and every day dozens were shot. Here also the prisoners tried every possible way to hide their sickness and continue working as long as they could. One day, at the morning roll call, an SS man announced that at the far end of the living barracks, an infirmary had been set up, and every sick man should report there for rest and treatment. The prisoners were not sure whether or not to admit they were sick. They were hesitant about relying on the promises of the SS men. But the disease over-powered them.

According to Reichman,
But the murderers do not keep their word, just like all the false promises of the Germans. A few days later, at five in the evening, a few SS come to us and order ninety sick people out. The Ukrainians burst in and drag the sick from their pallets by their feet. . . . In a matter of fifteen minutes, more than eighty sick are taken out. They are not permitted to dress, and they are ordered to take their blankets with them. From the hundred, thir-teen of us are left. The rest are taken to the yard, and after a few minutes we hear the bullets begin whistling.


p 321 The incident in which Chorazycki was caught by Franz with money in his coat occurred in the “infirmary.”
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:05 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:...

p 251 Shmuel Wilenberg hid in “infirmary” located in a hut to escape punishment...

Just one point to this, since the term was used in various ways:


Richard Glazar, ARC (my bold):

Of the Lazarett, Richard said:
“The Lazarett ('Infirmary’) was a little area very close to the ramp, to which the aged were led. I had to do this too. This execution site was not covered, just an open, roofless place, but screened by a fence, so no one could see in. The way in was through a narrow passage, very short, but somewhat similar to the `funnel.’ A sort of tiny labyrinth. In the middle there was a pit, to the left as one entered there was a little booth with a plank in it, like a springboard. If people were too weak to stand on it, then they’d have to sit on it, and then as the saying went in Treblinka jargon, the SS-Unterscharführer Miete, would 'cure each one with a single pill’ – a shot in the neck.



IIRC, Sperling also spoke of a "building" in connection to the "Lazarett".
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Balmoral95 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:16 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:...

p 251 Shmuel Wilenberg hid in “infirmary” located in a hut to escape punishment...

Just one point to this, since the term was used in various ways:


Richard Glazar, ARC (my bold):

Of the Lazarett, Richard said:
“The Lazarett ('Infirmary’) was a little area very close to the ramp, to which the aged were led. I had to do this too. This execution site was not covered, just an open, roofless place, but screened by a fence, so no one could see in. The way in was through a narrow passage, very short, but somewhat similar to the `funnel.’ A sort of tiny labyrinth. In the middle there was a pit, to the left as one entered there was a little booth with a plank in it, like a springboard. If people were too weak to stand on it, then they’d have to sit on it, and then as the saying went in Treblinka jargon, the SS-Unterscharführer Miete, would 'cure each one with a single pill’ – a shot in the neck.



IIRC, Sperling also spoke of a "building" in connection to the "Lazarett".



He did, with a fire inside.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:21 pm

That passage did not seem to mean Lazarett - Arad identifies the Lazarett specifically when he refers to it.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:27 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:That passage did not seem to mean Lazarett - Arad identifies the Lazarett specifically when he refers to it.

Just thought I mention it, because of the word "hut".



@ Balmoral95

I think that mentioned pit where they fell into was also used to burn the bodies. (And other things, such as ordinary refuse and also documents and other items of victims they didn't want.)
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Balmoral95 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:That passage did not seem to mean Lazarett - Arad identifies the Lazarett specifically when he refers to it.



Sperling:

Desperate women are tearing out their own hair. But straightaway the SS rush at us and force everyone to move on. The stragglers – the old, the sick, the weak and little children without parents – are either lifted onto stretchers by a squad wearing Red-Cross armbands, or helped along. They are all brought into a large building, the so-called Lazarett or infirmary. A fire burns in the middle of the room. On one side stands a long bench.(1) The old, the sick and the children have to strip naked, supposedly for a medical examination. Then they are made to sit on the bench, one beside the other, facing the fire. When they ask what the fire is for, it is explained that it is to keep the room warm so that none of the sick people should catch cold.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:42 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:That passage did not seem to mean Lazarett - Arad identifies the Lazarett specifically when he refers to it.



Sperling:

Desperate women are tearing out their own hair. But straightaway the SS rush at us and force everyone to move on. The stragglers – the old, the sick, the weak and little children without parents – are either lifted onto stretchers by a squad wearing Red-Cross armbands, or helped along. They are all brought into a large building, the so-called Lazarett or infirmary. A fire burns in the middle of the room. On one side stands a long bench.(1) The old, the sick and the children have to strip naked, supposedly for a medical examination. Then they are made to sit on the bench, one beside the other, facing the fire. When they ask what the fire is for, it is explained that it is to keep the room warm so that none of the sick people should catch cold.

I'm not convinced about the accuracy of a "large building". It's usually described as a more open area hidden behind fences and berms (the plans show it, too, No 22). And on the edge of camp. Could be he (or the translation) simply mixed up some stuff? Like, the more accurate word might be "construction".



Edits: Added link and number
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Nessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:43 pm

Just as a little aside, as well as the claim of the AR camps having state of the art general hospitals, over at RODOH Rollo the Ganger and Scott have been trying to suggest there were no toilets at the camps...
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:44 pm

:lol:
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:47 pm

Maybe they didn't have a "Scheissmeister" at their latrines - No 13 and 21:

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:55 pm

And it was an ever growing/changing camp for the time of its existence. I'd guess others also changed over their time as needs were discovered, solutions found.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Hans » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:16 pm

There was even a doctor in Chelmno extermination camp, "Dr. Lenz". He did not have any medical degree, but his method cured Jewish patients of any suffering almost instantly. He shot them in the head.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:05 pm

Nessie wrote:Just as a little aside, as well as the claim of the AR camps having state of the art general hospitals, over at RODOH Rollo the Ganger and Scott have been trying to suggest there were no toilets at the camps...


Are you referring to somebody's testimonial? Is there a link to somebody making the claim that the AR camps had state of the art hospitals? That sounds like an exaggeration to say that any of the camp hospitals could be that good.

However, there seems to be quite a few references to hospitals from witnesses. The problem is, nobody will make the claim for me that all the witnesses listed in Mattogno's work, are bogus. Can you say that any are credible witnesses that should be believed?

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:15 pm

Hans wrote:There was even a doctor in Chelmno extermination camp, "Dr. Lenz". He did not have any medical degree, but his method cured Jewish patients of any suffering almost instantly. He shot them in the head.

Thanks, Hans. One wonders if he went to the same school as "Dr. Miete".
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Nessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:46 pm

montgomery wrote:
Nessie wrote:Just as a little aside, as well as the claim of the AR camps having state of the art general hospitals, over at RODOH Rollo the Ganger and Scott have been trying to suggest there were no toilets at the camps...


Are you referring to somebody's testimonial? Is there a link to somebody making the claim that the AR camps had state of the art hospitals? That sounds like an exaggeration to say that any of the camp hospitals could be that good.


I was parodying the nonsense that some are coming out regarding evidence that people went to the toilet.

However, there seems to be quite a few references to hospitals from witnesses. The problem is, nobody will make the claim for me that all the witnesses listed in Mattogno's work, are bogus. Can you say that any are credible witnesses that should be believed?


Since I have not read the entire book, I cannot make a definitive comment on believability. I would suggest that you use a better source than Mattogno and there you will find witnesses who have been critically examined by trained historians and they will be the credible ones.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:54 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
The purpose of the infirmary was to combat typhus among the workers in the camp.


The important issue you have established is that there was a hospital. And that raises an issue with the drawings that represent maps of the two camps. We all must be vigilant on searching out misinformation. And of course, along with this, there are witnesses that testify to when a person was sick enough to be allowed to go to the hospital. (infirmary)

I'm finding that many of the eye witnesses who are now accepted to be bogus witnesses (all listed in Mattogno's handbook) were just far to unsophisticated to understand what could become a believable story. Hence, we need to discard their evidence. Now the issue for me becomes one of finding witness testimony that dates back as far as those bogus witnesses' testimony that can be accepted as truth. Later testimonies don't carry as much weight for me, but they do carry some weight. Except in the case of Leuchter of course, which was later eye witness and scientific evidence and carries a lot of weight.

My point is, we must have evidence dating back to around the time of the alleged crimes and that requires that the witnesses were sophisticated enough to relate stories that are actually possible. So far, I'm finding that the bogus is outnumbering the credible.

Not to mention the demeanor of the H.P. side which leaves a lot to be desired, re. personal insults. And not to mention the fits of rage when your side is merely questioned! This must change! Eggs and balmoral, and some of the others are doing the holocaust legend no favors!

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:02 pm

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
The purpose of the infirmary was to combat typhus among the workers in the camp.


The important issue you have established is that there was a hospital. And that raises an issue with the drawings that represent maps of the two camps. We all must be vigilant on searching out misinformation. And of course, along with this, there are witnesses that testify to when a person was sick enough to be allowed to go to the hospital. (infirmary)

I'm finding that many of the eye witnesses who are now accepted to be bogus witnesses (all listed in Mattogno's handbook) were just far to unsophisticated to understand what could become a believable story. Hence, we need to discard their evidence. Now the issue for me becomes one of finding witness testimony that dates back as far as those bogus witnesses' testimony that can be accepted as truth. Later testimonies don't carry as much weight for me, but they do carry some weight. Except in the case of Leuchter of course, which was later eye witness and scientific evidence and carries a lot of weight.

My point is, we must have evidence dating back to around the time of the alleged crimes and that requires that the witnesses were sophisticated enough to relate stories that are actually possible. So far, I'm finding that the bogus is outnumbering the credible.

Not to mention the demeanor of the H.P. side which leaves a lot to be desired, re. personal insults. And not to mention the fits of rage when your side is merely questioned! This must change! Eggs and balmoral, and some of the others are doing the holocaust legend no favors!
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:07 pm

Nessie wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Nessie wrote:Just as a little aside, as well as the claim of the AR camps having state of the art general hospitals, over at RODOH Rollo the Ganger and Scott have been trying to suggest there were no toilets at the camps...


Are you referring to somebody's testimonial? Is there a link to somebody making the claim that the AR camps had state of the art hospitals? That sounds like an exaggeration to say that any of the camp hospitals could be that good.


I was parodying the nonsense that some are coming out regarding evidence that people went to the toilet.

However, there seems to be quite a few references to hospitals from witnesses. The problem is, nobody will make the claim for me that all the witnesses listed in Mattogno's work, are bogus. Can you say that any are credible witnesses that should be believed?


Since I have not read the entire book, I cannot make a definitive comment on believability. I would suggest that you use a better source than Mattogno and there you will find witnesses who have been critically examined by trained historians and they will be the credible ones.


You need to read more evidence from Mattogno's side of the debate in my opinion.

But first, in defense of Mattogno. I'm still at the point in that book where I'm reading the supposed eye witness testimonies, or the stories that are related as being taken directly from those witnesses. I haven't read them all completely yet and probably won't. But what I have read are all bogus. Somebody must have read it? So I'm not questioning or accepting Mattogno at this point, I'm inquiring of those he references.

Who has done a better job than Mattogno? I'm looking for evidence that contradicts the claims of the holocaust, not claims that support it. That's my mission here on this forum as a skeptic. And frankly, the more I investigate, the more energy I gain to find the truth.

We sure as he-l don't need any more who are acting like children with their insulting and spamming. Even the slightest questioning of their posts leads them into fits of rage.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:41 pm

Just as an aside, Arad mentions an instance where the doctor gave a lethal injection to an inmate who went insane:

the stillness of the night was pierced with a laugh that could freeze the blood in the veins. Everyone who heard the laugh felt a chill go through his spine. It was like the screech of a crow or the howl of a jackal. . . . I felt that in another minute I would also break out in that kind of laughter. . . . I covered my head with the blanket and with my fingers I shut my ears so that I would not hear that crazed laughter. The next day the doctors gave him a death injection. The poor man did not know what they had done to him, and perhaps it was better that way..

From Shmuel Wilenberg

Arad states that those who couldn’t walk to the Lazarett were given lethal injections.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:51 pm

Thanks, Jeffk. (And following 'lethal injections', expect deep questions about them electrocutions. Ahem, therapy. :nuts:)




btw, you're doing better, it seems? :-D
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Nessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:12 pm

montgomery wrote:.... I'm looking for evidence that contradicts the claims of the holocaust, not claims that support it. That's my mission here on this forum as a skeptic. ...


If you find evidence that shows an alternative to the Holocaust, please share it. After many years and many requests, no one has produced any.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Darren Wilshak » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:38 pm

Does Mattogno's incessant use of the words, official, mainstream, orthodox etc count?

I always thought that is was pronounced Matt ag no. Hard g.

Imagine my surprise when the bearded convoluted one was mentioned in a video and his name was pronounced something like ma tone-o.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:48 pm

Nessie wrote:
montgomery wrote:.... I'm looking for evidence that contradicts the claims of the holocaust, not claims that support it. That's my mission here on this forum as a skeptic. ...


If you find evidence that shows an alternative to the Holocaust, please share it. After many years and many requests, no one has produced any.


Come on Nessie, I said 'claims of the holocaust' and by that I meant claims. Everybody knows an anthology could be written on the disproven claims alone. Mattogno has practically done that, along with others. Thatl's not saying that his and the deniers are the only ones who have presented evidence.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:52 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:Does Mattogno's incessant use of the words, official, mainstream, orthodox etc count?

I always thought that is was pronounced Matt ag no. Hard g.

Imagine my surprise when the bearded convoluted one was mentioned in a video and his name was pronounced something like ma tone-o.

Revs and their gurus.


Small things ............... Darren.

I would pronounce his name as 'ma tone oh'. But what does it matter? What matters is that he has exposed dozens of bogus eye witnesses. And I say that because nobody here is willing to say any are credible. Alsom assuming that I'm no longer on your ignore list? If I ever was? The 'troll' thing you mentioned?

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Nessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:54 pm

montgomery wrote:
Nessie wrote:
montgomery wrote:.... I'm looking for evidence that contradicts the claims of the holocaust, not claims that support it. That's my mission here on this forum as a skeptic. ...


If you find evidence that shows an alternative to the Holocaust, please share it. After many years and many requests, no one has produced any.


Come on Nessie, I said 'claims of the holocaust' and by that I meant claims. Everybody knows an anthology could be written on the disproven claims alone. Mattogno has practically done that, along with others. Thatl's not saying that his and the deniers are the only ones who have presented evidence.


This thread is an example of how a denial claim is not evidenced.

Here is another;

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29683

Here is a thread whereby the denier aim is to discredit the evidence of the Holocaust, whilst failing to evidence what did happen;

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=29689

There is a pattern to denial. Evidence for the Holocaust is asked for. It is provided and then dismissed or ignored. When the denier is asked to produce evidence of what did happen, that gets ignored as well and instead the denier repeats the request the Holocaust is evidenced. So it goes around and around.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Darren Wilshak » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:56 pm

Maybe he's got some swastikas to play with and that's taking up all his time, instead of posting evidenced claims I mean or replying to points in posts?

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:58 pm

They make fidget spinners like that now? :lol:
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:02 pm

montgomery wrote:Can you say that any are credible witnesses that should be believed?

I gave you an example and you said you didn't want to discuss that particular witness, for {!#%@}'s sake. What is up with you?
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:03 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Hans wrote:There was even a doctor in Chelmno extermination camp, "Dr. Lenz". He did not have any medical degree, but his method cured Jewish patients of any suffering almost instantly. He shot them in the head.

Thanks, Hans. One wonders if he went to the same school as "Dr. Miete".

The very same one that montgomery is hoping to matriculate at.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:14 pm

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
The purpose of the infirmary was to combat typhus among the workers in the camp.


The important issue you have established is that there was a hospital.

First, this discussion began with "hospitals with maternity wards." The claim was crap.

Second, Arad says that there was something called an infirmary, not a hospital, which provided rudimentary care mainly for capos and their associates and which was located in the living area - but no infirmary for workers in the extermination area; even so, the infirmary was usually oversubscribed and "every day tens of people were taken to the Lazarett and shot."

montgomery wrote:And that raises an issue with the drawings that represent maps of the two camps.

What issue?

montgomery wrote:We all must be vigilant on searching out misinformation.

Thank you for your little lecture, you obnoxious, self-righteous, dishonest twit.

montgomery wrote:I'm finding that many of the eye witnesses who are now accepted to be bogus witnesses (all listed in Mattogno's handbook) were just far to unsophisticated to understand what could become a believable story.

Explain. Examples would help others know what you and VFX have been going on about.

montgomery wrote:Hence, we need to discard their evidence.

Which evidence?

montgomery wrote:Now the issue for me becomes one of finding witness testimony that dates back as far as those bogus witnesses' testimony that can be accepted as truth.

Stop dodging what I asked you about Münzberger and what I linked to regarding "steam."

montgomery wrote:Later testimonies

What do you mean by "later"?

montgomery wrote:Except in the case of Leuchter of course, which was later eye witness and scientific evidence and carries a lot of weight.

What studies did Leuchter do regarding the AR camps and the hospitals with maternity wards which you halfwits claim were there?

montgomery wrote:My point is, we must have evidence dating back to around the time of the alleged crimes

We do. And you've ignored it.

montgomery wrote:requires that the witnesses were sophisticated enough to relate stories that are actually possible.

Krzepicki? Rabinowicz? Unsophisticated?

How many witness accounts of Treblinka have you compared? Please give us this in chart form so that you get yourself focused.

montgomery wrote:So far, I'm finding that the bogus is outnumbering the credible.

Not that it matters, but this is a mere assertion.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:18 pm

montgomery wrote:
Nessie wrote:
montgomery wrote:.... I'm looking for evidence that contradicts the claims of the holocaust, not claims that support it. That's my mission here on this forum as a skeptic. ...


If you find evidence that shows an alternative to the Holocaust, please share it. After many years and many requests, no one has produced any.


Come on Nessie, I said 'claims of the holocaust' and by that I meant claims. Everybody knows an anthology could be written on the disproven claims alone. Mattogno has practically done that, along with others. Thatl's not saying that his and the deniers are the only ones who have presented evidence.

Nessie asked you something different from what you're going on about here. What is the alternative argument, taking into account the variety and scope of the evidence, to mass murders in the AR camps?
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:20 pm

montgomery wrote:I would pronounce his name as 'ma tone oh'.

I think that's just great - and a big improvement on matt-orrrr-noh.

montgomery wrote:And I say that because nobody here is willing to say any are credible.

Well, that's not true.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:21 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:Can you say that any are credible witnesses that should be believed?

I gave you an example and you said you didn't want to discuss that particular witness, for {!#%@}'s sake. What is up with you?


Sorry again book, but a lot of the posts begin with spamming and personal attacks and I don't finish reading them to find any pertinent information. Could you maybe keep the stuff you want me to read, separate from that childish crap? So who is your favorite eye witness. Preferably one that gave testimony back in the 40's and that didn't need any revision?

I think a lot of the stuff like that you refer to as the 'lobster steaming' claim might have been acceptable back in the 40's by very unsophisticated readers. Now we are much more capable of separating out the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. (and all the other bloviating that we now understand is impossible)

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Darren Wilshak » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:26 pm

I will help him with his lies.

They were rinsed of their belongings and clothing which they owed to the wonderful Reich for putting up with them and after a brief sojourn at Malkinia transit camp pretty much stark naked but bellies full of good soup they were put onto the trains to go further East.

Er.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:28 pm

S.M.-

montgomery wrote:
I'm finding that many of the eye witnesses who are now accepted to be bogus witnesses (all listed in Mattogno's handbook) were just far to unsophisticated to understand what could become a believable story.

You wrote:
Please explain.


O.k. then we'll take each of the issues raised by you one at a time. We'll start with this one and we will do so in a polite and grownup way please.

So far the witnesses referred to by Mattogno are all considered to be bogus. If you disagree then start by telling me which one or ones aren't bogus. Every one I've read so far have told stories that are roughly equivalent to vaporizing jews with nuclear energy or boiling them like lobsters, as just two examples. That's what I mean! That's unsophisticated!

Now try to keep it together long enough to cover this issue, then we will proceed to your next choice. Thanks!

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby montgomery » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:31 pm

Darren Wilshak wrote:I will help him with his lies.

They were rinsed of their belongings and clothing which they owed to the wonderful Reich for putting up with them and after a brief sojourn at Malkinia transit camp pretty much stark naked but bellies full of good soup they were put onto the trains to go further East.

Er.


Darren, you're not being helpful on expediting the process of questions and answering for S.M. Best to just sit back and follow along with your finger for now.

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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:32 pm

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:Can you say that any are credible witnesses that should be believed?

I gave you an example and you said you didn't want to discuss that particular witness, for {!#%@}'s sake. What is up with you?


Sorry again book, but a lot of the posts begin with spamming and personal attacks and I don't finish reading them to find any pertinent information.

Liar. You replied to the post you now say you didn't read.
I have nothing to add about Munzberger ...

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p661766
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 40#p661772

Btw VFX also replied to my asking about Münzberger, writing, "Who was talking to you big nose" and appending a whole bunch of smilies.

montgomery wrote:Could you maybe keep the stuff you want me to read, separate from that childish crap?

Can you answer not distort and lie about what's been posted?

montgomery wrote:So who is your favorite eye witness.

I don't have a "favorite eye witness." I've suggested Krzepicki, Rabinowicz, and Münzberger for discussion.

montgomery wrote:a lot of the stuff like that you refer to as the 'lobster steaming' claim might have been acceptable back in the 40's by very unsophisticated readers.

I gave you a link about this. In the first place, there was no "lobster steaming" claim. In the second, I explained how to understand the denier obsession with a small number of testimonies that were mistaken or hard to read on the method of murder.

montgomery wrote:Now we are much more capable of separating out the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. (and all the other bloviating that we now understand is impossible)

I have no idea what you are trying to say.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Nessie » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:33 pm

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:Can you say that any are credible witnesses that should be believed?

I gave you an example and you said you didn't want to discuss that particular witness, for {!#%@}'s sake. What is up with you?


Sorry again book, but a lot of the posts begin with spamming and personal attacks and I don't finish reading them to find any pertinent information. Could you maybe keep the stuff you want me to read, separate from that childish crap? So who is your favorite eye witness. Preferably one that gave testimony back in the 40's and that didn't need any revision?

I think a lot of the stuff like that you refer to as the 'lobster steaming' claim might have been acceptable back in the 40's by very unsophisticated readers. Now we are much more capable of separating out the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. (and all the other bloviating that we now understand is impossible)


Once the claim had been made by a denier that the AR camps were hospitals, the deniers then withdrew and did not work to find any evidence. It was up to the rest of us here to find the evidence. Eye witnesses who worked at the camps were found, quoted and that showed there was no hospital as suggested in the original claim.

This time I think you Monty should check the witness and produce one who stated he saw a gassing and it was by steam.

Once you realise no eye witness who worked at the gas chambers said steam was used, then maybe, just maybe you will start to understand the difference between primary eye witness testimony of those who were actually there and hearsay.
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Re: Hospitals in camps.

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:37 pm

montgomery wrote:S.M.-

montgomery wrote:
I'm finding that many of the eye witnesses who are now accepted to be bogus witnesses (all listed in Mattogno's handbook) were just far to unsophisticated to understand what could become a believable story.

You wrote:
Please explain.


O.k. then we'll take each of the issues raised by you one at a time. We'll start with this one and we will do so in a polite and grownup way please.

So far the witnesses referred to by Mattogno are all considered to be bogus. If you disagree then start by telling me which one or ones aren't bogus. Every one I've read so far have told stories that are roughly equivalent to vaporizing jews with nuclear energy or boiling them like lobsters, as just two examples. That's what I mean! That's unsophisticated!

Now try to keep it together long enough to cover this issue, then we will proceed to your next choice. Thanks!

That's not an explanation. It's a request for me to do your work for you. Besides, I already gave you a general reply to your general question.

In the meantime, I asked you about Münzberger's testimony and linked you to discussion of other useful testimonies and that's what I am waiting to hear about.
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