Split: Debaters

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
montgomery
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Split: Debaters

Postby montgomery » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:59 pm

This post was placed here by the moderator and it doesn't represent the OP for this thread.

Maybe we can continue after you have watched the entire video of the debate between Weber and Shermer. I don't think it's going to be very productive though, as the bit I watched on Shermer's opening lacked any details that would challenge Weber in any way. Shermer was much more on about issues that didn't matter as to Weber's points. You'll hear that from Shermer and you may want to comment on it?

I didn't watch Shermer's closing 20 minutes because I got the feeling he wasn't getting anywhere. Maybe I should? After you have watched it you could maybe advise me on it's worth?

You remarked earlier on that you didn't 'hate' Shermer. I'm still puzzled on why you would have said that. Can you provide an explanation? Franky, I don't have any reason to either 'hate' or 'love' either of them! What I would say is that Shermer was out of his league by taking part. Surely there are lots of better choices to debate Weber.

Would you have a favorite debater who has taken on Weber? I think it might be productive to examine that carefully.
Last edited by montgomery on Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:06 pm

I don’t hate Shermer, I’m just not certain he was the best person to go. This is not Shermer’s area of expertise.

As far as someone better Dr. Nicholas Terry is much better suited to engage Holocaust deniers. He is very well versed on the history and knows the arguments that deniers make.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby montgomery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:01 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I don’t hate Shermer, I’m just not certain he was the best person to go. This is not Shermer’s area of expertise.

As far as someone better Dr. Nicholas Terry is much better suited to engage Holocaust deniers. He is very well versed on the history and knows the arguments that deniers make.


Does Terry debate Weber? I'm mostly interested in hearing a holocaust promoter debating an informed and intelligent denier.

Or, if you're going to tell me such an animal doesn't exist, then the best the denier side has will do.

Frankly, if a holocaust promoter has taken part in lies and exaggerations then I would consider him/her not having any credibility. Same for the deniers of course. Don't take that to mean phony interpretations by the other side to discredit their opponents. Something more like Leuchter presented that was never properly refuted.

And of course you know how I feel about personal attacks that lead the discussion astray in order to dodge the topic!

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:17 am

montgomery wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I don’t hate Shermer, I’m just not certain he was the best person to go. This is not Shermer’s area of expertise.

As far as someone better Dr. Nicholas Terry is much better suited to engage Holocaust deniers. He is very well versed on the history and knows the arguments that deniers make.


Does Terry debate Weber? I'm mostly interested in hearing a holocaust promoter debating an informed and intelligent denier.

Or, if you're going to tell me such an animal doesn't exist, then the best the denier side has will do.

Frankly, if a holocaust promoter has taken part in lies and exaggerations then I would consider him/her not having any credibility. Same for the deniers of course. Don't take that to mean phony interpretations by the other side to discredit their opponents. Something more like Leuchter presented that was never properly refuted.

And of course you know how I feel about personal attacks that lead the discussion astray in order to dodge the topic!


Sorry, misread your statement. AFAIK Dr. Terry never debated anyone.
Really any of the Holocaust Controversies bloggers would work. At one point Roberto (one of the bloggers) debated Fritz Berg, he of the diesel gas chambers fame.

It’s probably on-line somewhere, I just couldn’t find it with a cursory search. I’ve never listened to it, Berg is a rather vile specimen.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby montgomery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:47 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I don’t hate Shermer, I’m just not certain he was the best person to go. This is not Shermer’s area of expertise.

As far as someone better Dr. Nicholas Terry is much better suited to engage Holocaust deniers. He is very well versed on the history and knows the arguments that deniers make.


Does Terry debate Weber? I'm mostly interested in hearing a holocaust promoter debating an informed and intelligent denier.

Or, if you're going to tell me such an animal doesn't exist, then the best the denier side has will do.

Frankly, if a holocaust promoter has taken part in lies and exaggerations then I would consider him/her not having any credibility. Same for the deniers of course. Don't take that to mean phony interpretations by the other side to discredit their opponents. Something more like Leuchter presented that was never properly refuted.

And of course you know how I feel about personal attacks that lead the discussion astray in order to dodge the topic!


Sorry, misread your statement. AFAIK Dr. Terry never debated anyone.
Really any of the Holocaust Controversies bloggers would work. At one point Roberto (one of the bloggers) debated Fritz Berg, he of the diesel gas chambers fame.

It’s probably on-line somewhere, I just couldn’t find it with a cursory search. I’ve never listened to it, Berg is a rather vile specimen.


Why are you calling Berg a vile specimen when you haven't even heard his debating tactics?

I guess we'll have to stick to Weber/Shermer if Shermer is the best that ever debated a denier. I was hoping for something a lot better than the job Shermer did.

Fwiw, so far I'm thinking that there hasn't been any real open debates that didn't break down into petty insulting by either or both sides. It's always been a railroading of one or the other debaters by the opposition. We all need to take the high road and dispense with that kind of crap. Two that immediately come to mind are D-H and balmoral.

Heh, maybe they'll try to blame me now?

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:26 am

montgomery wrote:I don’t hate Shermer, I’m just not certain he was the best person to go. This is not Shermer’s area of expertise.

As far as someone better Dr. Nicholas Terry is much better suited to engage Holocaust deniers. He is very well versed on the history and knows the arguments that deniers make.

Does Terry debate Weber? I'm mostly interested in hearing a holocaust promoter debating an informed and intelligent denier.

Or, if you're going to tell me such an animal doesn't exist, then the best the denier side has will do.

Frankly, if a holocaust promoter has taken part in lies and exaggerations then I would consider him/her not having any credibility. Same for the deniers of course. Don't take that to mean phony interpretations by the other side to discredit their opponents. Something more like Leuchter presented that was never properly refuted.

And of course you know how I feel about personal attacks that lead the discussion astray in order to dodge the topic!

Sorry, misread your statement. AFAIK Dr. Terry never debated anyone.
Really any of the Holocaust Controversies bloggers would work. At one point Roberto (one of the bloggers) debated Fritz Berg, he of the diesel gas chambers fame.

It’s probably on-line somewhere, I just couldn’t find it with a cursory search. I’ve never listened to it, Berg is a rather vile specimen.

Why are you calling Berg a vile specimen when you haven't even heard his debating tactics?


Because I’ve been on the receiving end of one of his rants. I’ve dealt with Berg on-line, I have no desire to hear him speak.

I guess we'll have to stick to Weber/Shermer if Shermer is the best that ever debated a denier. I was hoping for something a lot better than the job Shermer did.


I take it you were impressed with Weber? Is it the exaggerations he pointed out that you appreciate so much?

Fwiw, so far I'm thinking that there hasn't been any real open debates that didn't break down into petty insulting by either or both sides. It's always been a railroading of one or the other debaters by the opposition. We all need to take the high road and dispense with that kind of crap. Two that immediately come to mind are D-H and balmoral.

Heh, maybe they'll try to blame me now?


FWIW if you don’t want to interact with them then don’t.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby montgomery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:00 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:I don’t hate Shermer, I’m just not certain he was the best person to go. This is not Shermer’s area of expertise.

As far as someone better Dr. Nicholas Terry is much better suited to engage Holocaust deniers. He is very well versed on the history and knows the arguments that deniers make.

Does Terry debate Weber? I'm mostly interested in hearing a holocaust promoter debating an informed and intelligent denier.

Or, if you're going to tell me such an animal doesn't exist, then the best the denier side has will do.

Frankly, if a holocaust promoter has taken part in lies and exaggerations then I would consider him/her not having any credibility. Same for the deniers of course. Don't take that to mean phony interpretations by the other side to discredit their opponents. Something more like Leuchter presented that was never properly refuted.

And of course you know how I feel about personal attacks that lead the discussion astray in order to dodge the topic!

Sorry, misread your statement. AFAIK Dr. Terry never debated anyone.
Really any of the Holocaust Controversies bloggers would work. At one point Roberto (one of the bloggers) debated Fritz Berg, he of the diesel gas chambers fame.

It’s probably on-line somewhere, I just couldn’t find it with a cursory search. I’ve never listened to it, Berg is a rather vile specimen.

Why are you calling Berg a vile specimen when you haven't even heard his debating tactics?


Because I’ve been on the receiving end of one of his rants. I’ve dealt with Berg on-line, I have no desire to hear him speak.

I guess we'll have to stick to Weber/Shermer if Shermer is the best that ever debated a denier. I was hoping for something a lot better than the job Shermer did.


I take it you were impressed with Weber? Is it the exaggerations he pointed out that you appreciate so much?

[quote]

I haven't said anything complimentary about Weber and you know that. I've said on the 'lies and exaggerations' thread that I'll leave that up to you. Let's hear your rational and adult criticisms of Weber. (why should I even have to ask for it to be rational and adult?)

I've said some complimentary things about Shermer, and I'll add one more here. He didn't act like a bloody spoiled brat when you got his butt handed to him. Maybe the plodding schlunks I've mentioned on this forum could learn something from him?

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:29 am

montgomery wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:I don’t hate Shermer, I’m just not certain he was the best person to go. This is not Shermer’s area of expertise.

As far as someone better Dr. Nicholas Terry is much better suited to engage Holocaust deniers. He is very well versed on the history and knows the arguments that deniers make.

Does Terry debate Weber? I'm mostly interested in hearing a holocaust promoter debating an informed and intelligent denier.

Or, if you're going to tell me such an animal doesn't exist, then the best the denier side has will do.

Frankly, if a holocaust promoter has taken part in lies and exaggerations then I would consider him/her not having any credibility. Same for the deniers of course. Don't take that to mean phony interpretations by the other side to discredit their opponents. Something more like Leuchter presented that was never properly refuted.

And of course you know how I feel about personal attacks that lead the discussion astray in order to dodge the topic!

Sorry, misread your statement. AFAIK Dr. Terry never debated anyone.
Really any of the Holocaust Controversies bloggers would work. At one point Roberto (one of the bloggers) debated Fritz Berg, he of the diesel gas chambers fame.

It’s probably on-line somewhere, I just couldn’t find it with a cursory search. I’ve never listened to it, Berg is a rather vile specimen.

Why are you calling Berg a vile specimen when you haven't even heard his debating tactics?


Because I’ve been on the receiving end of one of his rants. I’ve dealt with Berg on-line, I have no desire to hear him speak.

I guess we'll have to stick to Weber/Shermer if Shermer is the best that ever debated a denier. I was hoping for something a lot better than the job Shermer did.


I take it you were impressed with Weber? Is it the exaggerations he pointed out that you appreciate so much?



I haven't said anything complimentary about Weber and you know that. I've said on the 'lies and exaggerations' thread that I'll leave that up to you. Let's hear your rational and adult criticisms of Weber. (why should I even have to ask for it to be rational and adult?)


I gave my objections based upon what I’ve watched so far but I’ll go over them again.

I objected to the slide he showed of Auschwitz-Birkenau because it only showed the barracks and not the areas where the gas chambers were.

Here is a picture taken by the USAAF in 1944:
Image

Yad Vashem notes those areas, including where smoke is coming from a burning pit.

Another objection was Weber exaggerating the sometimes conflicting information of execution methods. This is a denier special but these mixups are common where eyewitnesses get confused about what they see. There is also an element of rumor, someone sees something going on at a camp, mistakes what they see, they tell someone and the story gets mixed up.
I examine and dismiss these in their turn because what really counts is what those closest to the murders say. This is particularly true of Germans or other perpetrators who were at the epicenter of destruction.

Also Weber’s insistence on gas chambers as almost a talisman. The reality is that close to half of the victims never saw the inside of a gas chamber, there were high mortality rates in ghettos and non-extermination camps and the Germans shot over a million men, women and children on the Eastern Front.

I’ll add more later.

I've said some complimentary things about Shermer, and I'll add one more here. He didn't act like a bloody spoiled brat when you got his butt handed to him. Maybe the plodding schlunks I've mentioned on this forum could learn something from him?


Maybe you need to stop slinging names around.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:33 am

Better picture:
Image
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby montgomery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:41 pm

Why the pictures? Do you imagine them to be evidence of some sort against Weber? No, I'm not denying they are presenting some kind of evidence, I just don't know what evidence they present? Are the allied bombs the evidence? If so then they seem to be very real. However, they could have been added to the photo later but I can't imagine why?

Back on topic, it appears that we both agree that Weber won the debate and mostly because Shermer came unprepared. Do you have any other debates to which you can refer in which the holocaust promoting side does a decent job against a holocaust denier? If such a thing exists then I would like to hear it. Evidence in writing both fabricated and truthful won't do.

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:27 pm

montgomery wrote:Why the pictures? Do you imagine them to be evidence of some sort against Weber? No, I'm not denying they are presenting some kind of evidence, I just don't know what evidence they present? Are the allied bombs the evidence? If so then they seem to be very real. However, they could have been added to the photo later but I can't imagine why?


Weber only showed a slide with the barracks, he did not show where the gas chambers were.

Back on topic, it appears that we both agree that Weber won the debate and mostly because Shermer came unprepared.


Did I say that? No, what I said was he seemed nervous. I also said that someone like him who’s main focus isn’t the Holocaust isn’t the best choice for this type of debate.

Shermer actually made a good points, they just came across awkwardly. For example he made good use of various speeches by Nazis officials, in particular Himmler’s speech that deniers often mangle. Himmler specifically talks about Jews and the killing of Jews. Deniers obsess over the German word that Himmler uses’s, Ausrottung. It means extermination. There’s a lot of hemming and hawing about it but in that context that’s what it means.

Do you have any other debates to which you can refer in which the holocaust promoting side does a decent job against a holocaust denier? If such a thing exists then I would like to hear it. Evidence in writing both fabricated and truthful won't do.


Not that I’m aware of. I can see if I can find Roberto’s debate with ol’ Fritzy Berg.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby montgomery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:56 pm

No other real debates? No wonder! otherwise,

crickets.

This could be the reason why you people get so abusive and insulting toward anybody who doesn't buy into your established false narrative. Lacking evidence, one way or another, you lose the debate on your bad behavior alone.

On the bright side, most have cleaned up their acts a lot since I started on this section of the forum. Or at least they've learned that they can't get attention out of their anger tantrums.

Any other debates? No, very unlikely. Debates establish credibility and facts and that's not in the gameplan. Censoring and demonizing of your opponents is the gameplan.

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby montgomery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:57 pm

edited double post

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:38 pm

montgomery wrote:No other real debates? No wonder!


Why? Most historians don’t see the point. Shermer is (was) different.

This could be the reason why you people get so abusive and insulting toward anybody who doesn't buy into your established false narrative.


Where have I been abusive to you?

Lacking evidence, one way or another, you lose the debate on your bad behavior alone.


You haven’t asked me for evidence. I’ve provided some, there’s tons of evidence on this forum. We even have a thread on it.
There’s been no debate so far, not with you.

On the bright side, most have cleaned up their acts a lot since I started on this section of the forum. Or at least they've learned that they can't get attention out of their anger tantrums.


None of them have any interest in interacting with you anymore. I’m willing to do so at this point.

Any other debates? No, very unlikely. Debates establish credibility and facts and that's not in the gameplan.


The facts are there. We can discuss them if you want.

Censoring and demonizing of your opponents is the gameplan.


Who is censoring Weber? No one that I know. None of the deniers that I’ve dealt with have been censored. There is denial stuff to be found if you look for it.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby montgomery » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:24 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:No other real debates? No wonder!


Why? Most historians don’t see the point. Shermer is (was) different.


Good one! They produce lots of flimsy evidence and take potshots, but don't want to debate.

This could be the reason why you people get so abusive and insulting toward anybody who doesn't buy into your established false narrative.


Where have I been abusive to you?[/quote]

I didn't say me and I didn't say you. Your tactics are predictable.

Lacking evidence, one way or another, you lose the debate on your bad behavior alone.


You haven’t asked me for evidence. I’ve provided some, there’s tons of evidence on this forum. We even have a thread on it.
There’s been no debate so far, not with you.[/quote]

That has nothing to do with what I said.

On the bright side, most have cleaned up their acts a lot since I started on this section of the forum. Or at least they've learned that they can't get attention out of their anger tantrums.


None of them have any interest in interacting with you anymore. I’m willing to do so at this point.[/quote]

Sure they do but they found their tactics weren't working. And too, they may have taken my advice on how their bad manners reflect on tthemselves. Or maybe pyrro warned them about spamming?

Any other debates? No, very unlikely. Debates establish credibility and facts and that's not in the gameplan.


The facts are there. We can discuss them if you want.[/quote]

I'm content to debate that which is already being questioned. Stop asking for a little bit of denial.

Censoring and demonizing of your opponents is the gameplan.


Who is censoring Weber? No one that I know. None of the deniers that I’ve dealt with have been censored. There is denial stuff to be found if you look for it.[/quote]

And I didn't suggest that anybody is censoring Weber. You know that nobody is so far.

Play to your audience but understand it doesn't interest me. And finish watching the Weber/Shermer debate so you can acknowledge that Shermer lost for lack of material on which to debate Weber.

And now we also know that there's no debater that could do better! It's pretty obvious the reason is because of the stigma the holocaust lobby has set up to prevent it.

It's almost like Shermer set himself to lose the debate in a safe way. By opposing Weber he stayed safe and then proceeded to sell the holocaust farm. That's consistent with him being an atheist and especially a Skeptic. Or in other words, Shermer taking part in that debate was probably as damaging to your cause as he could possibly make it. Shermer is a denier and that's why you said you didn't hate him. You dislike him a lot though and now I know why!

Ya think?

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:27 pm

Care to clean up that^ mess?
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:47 pm

montgomery wrote:No other real debates? No wonder!


Why? Most historians don’t see the point. Shermer is (was) different.

Good one! They produce lots of flimsy evidence and take potshots, but don't want to debate.


Flimsy evidence? Like what?

This could be the reason why you people get so abusive and insulting toward anybody who doesn't buy into your established false narrative.


Where have I been abusive to you?

I didn't say me and I didn't say you. Your tactics are predictable.


This is getting a little tiring. I am the one engaging with you right now. Me, no one else. What others have done in the past irrelevant. You can discuss what you want with me.

Lacking evidence, one way or another, you lose the debate on your bad behavior alone.


You haven’t asked me for evidence. I’ve provided some, there’s tons of evidence on this forum. We even have a thread on it.
There’s been no debate so far, not with you.

That has nothing to do with what I said.


Look at what I put in bold. “You”

On the bright side, most have cleaned up their acts a lot since I started on this section of the forum. Or at least they've learned that they can't get attention out of their anger tantrums.

None of them have any interest in interacting with you anymore. I’m willing to do so at this point.

Sure they do but they found their tactics weren't working. And too, they may have taken my advice on how their bad manners reflect on tthemselves. Or maybe pyrro warned them about spamming?


They no longer have an interest.

Any other debates? No, very unlikely. Debates establish credibility and facts and that's not in the gameplan.


The facts are there. We can discuss them if you want.

I'm content to debate that which is already being questioned. Stop asking for a little bit of denial.


Very well. I put some items up from the video. We can discuss those items.

Censoring and demonizing of your opponents is the gameplan.

Who is censoring Weber? No one that I know. None of the deniers that I’ve dealt with have been censored. There is denial stuff to be found if you look for it.

And I didn't suggest that anybody is censoring Weber. You know that nobody is so far.


Look at what I bolded. Explain.

Play to your audience but understand it doesn't interest me. And finish watching the Weber/Shermer debate so you can acknowledge that Shermer lost for lack of material on which to debate Weber.


Let’s get something straight. You don’t tell me what I need to acknowledge. If I decide that Weber or Shermer “lost” the debate then I will tell you and we can discuss it. Or if I decide no one won you can give me your opinion on the matter. I will finish watching the video when I get a chance, probably tonight.

And now we also know that there's no debater that could do better! It's pretty obvious the reason is because of the stigma the holocaust lobby has set up to prevent it.


Really? I gave you someone who I know could do better because this falls into his area of expertise. I know Roberto debated Berg, if I have a moment I will track it down.

It's almost like Shermer set himself to lose the debate in a safe way. By opposing Weber he stayed safe and then proceeded to sell the holocaust farm. That's consistent with him being an atheist and especially a Skeptic. Or in other words, Shermer taking part in that debate was probably as damaging to your cause as he could possibly make it. Shermer is a denier and that's why you said you didn't hate him. You dislike him a lot though and now I know why!

Ya think?


No.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying_History
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Denying-History » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:08 pm

Lol Now he fails to structure a post... and he has the audacity to complain about how a typo of “quiet” apparently makes something unreadable.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:51 pm

"bad manners reflect on tthemselves" :-P
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Denying-History » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:53 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Let’s get something straight. You don’t tell me what I need to acknowledge. If I decide that Weber or Shermer “lost” the debate then I will tell you and we can discuss it. Or if I decide no one won you can give me your opinion on the matter. I will finish watching the video when I get a chance, probably tonight.


Recommended reading:

IHR’s account
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n1p22_Weber.html

Shermer’s perspective:
« In truth, I conceded absolutely nothing. »
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/s/shermer-michael/july22-debate-comments.html

Lol Jeff you getting a laugh out of this?
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:59 am

>> Or maybe pyrro warned them about spamming?

Yeah, this was probably it. Jesus wept.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Balmoral95 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:08 am

scrmbldggs wrote:"bad manners reflect on tthemselves" :-P


Well slurping veggie gruel in the Reichskanzlei dining room apparently was socially acceptable...but hey, there was silver service, so... :lol:

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Re: Holocaust Deniers vs. US army veterans?

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:04 am

I am temporarily locking this thread in order to split off the Shermer, et al. discussion.
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The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:09 am

Split is complete. You may wish to change the topic title in subsequent replies. The author of the OP should be able to edit their post and change the topic title there, too, if they wish, but don't quote me on that.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Gord » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:14 am

Pyrrho wrote:The author of the OP should be able to edit their post and change the topic title there, too, if they wish, but don't quote me on that.

:neener:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:16 pm

Gord wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The author of the OP should be able to edit their post and change the topic title there, too, if they wish, but don't quote me on that.

:neener:


Just curious what your silly emoticon is meant for? Mock the moderator or mock somebody else?

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:19 pm

Reading comprehension deficit detected.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:46 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Reading comprehension deficit detected.


I'm rather curious about the whole thread, when a post of mine is placed at the top and it looks like I'm being given credit for being the OP. I guess it doesn't matter though.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:09 pm

montgomery wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Reading comprehension deficit detected.


I'm rather curious about the whole thread, when a post of mine is placed at the top and it looks like I'm being given credit for being the OP. I guess it doesn't matter though.


Pyrro will split off off topic conversations.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:09 pm

Usually only upon request, as in this case.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:10 pm

Gord wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The author of the OP should be able to edit their post and change the topic title there, too, if they wish, but don't quote me on that.

:neener:

I knew someone would take that bait.
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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:18 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Gord wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The author of the OP should be able to edit their post and change the topic title there, too, if they wish, but don't quote me on that.

:neener:

I knew someone would take that bait.


What bait? The emoticon is the bait?

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:26 pm

What Gord did (and you do also when you use the quote button) is called "quoting".* Does that help?





* (and teasing :-P)
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:28 pm

montgomery wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Gord wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The author of the OP should be able to edit their post and change the topic title there, too, if they wish, but don't quote me on that.

:neener:

I knew someone would take that bait.


What bait? The emoticon is the bait?


I think this is one of those things you should just let go. Gord is a long time member and it’s probably an inside joke between him and Pyrro.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:40 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Gord wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The author of the OP should be able to edit their post and change the topic title there, too, if they wish, but don't quote me on that.

:neener:

I knew someone would take that bait.


What bait? The emoticon is the bait?


I think this is one of those things you should just let go. Gord is a long time member and it’s probably an inside joke between him and Pyrro.


You're way too much into thinking you can tell me when to let something go. This has got to be the third time. How about you learn to mind your own business on matters that don't concern you?

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:57 pm

montgomery wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:
Gord wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:The author of the OP should be able to edit their post and change the topic title there, too, if they wish, but don't quote me on that.

:neener:

I knew someone would take that bait.


What bait? The emoticon is the bait?


I think this is one of those things you should just let go. Gord is a long time member and it’s probably an inside joke between him and Pyrro.


You're way too much into thinking you can tell me when to let something go. This has got to be the third time. How about you learn to mind your own business on matters that don't concern you?


I’m trying to help you adjust to the environment.

You seem awfully quick to take offense. Maybe you should take a break.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:01 pm

montgomery wrote:How about you learn to mind your own business on matters that don't concern you?

With no sense of irony . . . LOL
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Balmoral95 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:07 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
montgomery wrote:How about you learn to mind your own business on matters that don't concern you?

With no sense of irony . . . LOL


Chimps don't do irony

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:12 am

Short form:
It was a joke.

Long form:
Had I expected that my intentional inclusion of the phrase, "don't quote me on that," as a joke, knowing that someone would quote me because I had included that statement, would result in an off-topic discussion in a thread that was split from the original topic because it was an off-topic discussion, I probably would not have included "don't quote me on that."

Maybe someone should convene a "debate" on the subject of what is a joke, etc. I am sure people would pay good money to ask that someone to cancel the debate.

This is beginning to resemble the spin cycle in a laundromat washing machine that has a busted off switch.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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Re: Split: Debaters

Postby Balmoral95 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:07 am

Pyrrho wrote:Short form:
It was a joke.

Long form:
Had I expected that my intentional inclusion of the phrase, "don't quote me on that," as a joke, knowing that someone would quote me because I had included that statement, would result in an off-topic discussion in a thread that was split from the original topic because it was an off-topic discussion, I probably would not have included "don't quote me on that."

Maybe someone should convene a "debate" on the subject of what is a joke, etc. I am sure people would pay good money to ask that someone to cancel the debate.

This is beginning to resemble the spin cycle in a laundromat washing machine that has a busted off switch.



Check out the JFK assassination forum at JREFs (or whatever it's called now) for comparative purposes. I'll guarantee when you get back here you'll be glad you did. :mrgreen:


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