Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 4:04 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Alright, worked my way through some more of the video.

Much griping and moaning about the ADL and some about Holocaust denial laws.

Weber also brings up gassings at other camps like Mauthausen and Dachau. I’ve mentioned this before but these camps were ordinary concentration camps. They never figured into the Final Solution.


Yes, those were among the lies and exaggerations that have been corrected by people like those of the IHR.

Weber brings up gas chambers at Auschwitz I, the reconstructed gas chamber. It’s long been established that was a reconstruction but that doesn’t mean it’s a fake. Leuchter made something of an issue about this but it’s known that after the crematorium was decommissioned it was converted into an air raid shelter. The Soviets attempted to reconstruct it but made mistakes.


In other words, there's no evidence for a real gas chamber, according to you.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:13 pm

montgomery wrote:Alright, worked my way through some more of the video.

Much griping and moaning about the ADL and some about Holocaust denial laws.

Weber also brings up gassings at other camps like Mauthausen and Dachau. I’ve mentioned this before but these camps were ordinary concentration camps. They never figured into the Final Solution.

Yes, those were among the lies and exaggerations that have been corrected by people like those of the IHR.


Doubtful. Ordinary scholarship corrected that.

Weber brings up gas chambers at Auschwitz I, the reconstructed gas chamber. It’s long been established that was a reconstruction but that doesn’t mean it’s a fake. Leuchter made something of an issue about this but it’s known that after the crematorium was decommissioned it was converted into an air raid shelter. The Soviets attempted to reconstruct it but made mistakes.

In other words, there's no evidence for a real gas chamber, according to you.


Is that what I said? I think you are projecting.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:35 pm

I would suggest that a reconstruction is a fake. Or at least not be represented as the real thing. A fake is a fake but I'm not going to get too excited about debating it. You can call it what you like.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:59 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:Alright, worked my way through some more of the video.

Much griping and moaning about the ADL and some about Holocaust denial laws.

Weber also brings up gassings at other camps like Mauthausen and Dachau. I’ve mentioned this before but these camps were ordinary concentration camps. They never figured into the Final Solution.

Yes, those were among the lies and exaggerations that have been corrected by people like those of the IHR.


Doubtful. Ordinary scholarship corrected that.

If you mean Mauthausen, not really - unless I am not following this. Leaving aside the gassing facility at Hartheim, scholars are divided on gas chambers within the Mauthausen system. For example, Pike, Spaniards in the Holocaust: Mauthausen, Horror on the Danube and Haunschmied et al, St. Georgen - Gusen - Mauthausen: Concentration Camp Mauthausen Reconsidered, along with the Mauthausen Museum IIRC, describe murder of (using Pike's number) 4000 or so inmates in gas chambers, partially destroyed before the camp's liberation, in the Mauthausen system (see also: Schmidt & Loehrer, The Mauthausen Concentration Camp Complex: World War II and Postwar Records.)
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:07 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:Alright, worked my way through some more of the video.

Much griping and moaning about the ADL and some about Holocaust denial laws.

Weber also brings up gassings at other camps like Mauthausen and Dachau. I’ve mentioned this before but these camps were ordinary concentration camps. They never figured into the Final Solution.

Yes, those were among the lies and exaggerations that have been corrected by people like those of the IHR.


Doubtful. Ordinary scholarship corrected that.

If you mean Mauthausen, not really - unless I am not following this. Leaving aside the gassing facility at Hartheim, scholars are divided on gas chambers within the Mauthausen system. For example, Pike, Spaniards in the Holocaust: Mauthausen, Horror on the Danube and Haunschmied et al, St. Georgen - Gusen - Mauthausen: Concentration Camp Mauthausen Reconsidered, along with the Mauthausen Museum IIRC, describe murder of (using Pike's number) 4000 or so inmates in gas chambers, partially destroyed before the camp's liberation, in the Mauthausen system (see also: Schmidt & Loehrer, The Mauthausen Concentration Camp Complex: World War II and Postwar Records.)


So you're going to resurrect that which has been previously shown to be wrong information. Lies and exaggerations as suggested by JeffK. With all due respects, can we leave the goalposts where they are for now? We don't need more anecdotal evidence and especially by pro-holocaust revisionists.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:19 pm

Jeffk, also, Sergey Romanov has cited Freund, "Tötungen durch Giftgas in Mauthausen und Gusen" in B. Bailer, W. Benz, W. Neugebauer (Hrsg.), Wahrheit und "Auschwitzlüge". Zur Bekämpfung "revisionistischer" Propaganda, on this topic.
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:45 pm

montgomery wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
montgomery wrote:Alright, worked my way through some more of the video.

Much griping and moaning about the ADL and some about Holocaust denial laws.

Weber also brings up gassings at other camps like Mauthausen and Dachau. I’ve mentioned this before but these camps were ordinary concentration camps. They never figured into the Final Solution.

Yes, those were among the lies and exaggerations that have been corrected by people like those of the IHR.


Doubtful. Ordinary scholarship corrected that.

If you mean Mauthausen, not really - unless I am not following this. Leaving aside the gassing facility at Hartheim, scholars are divided on gas chambers within the Mauthausen system. For example, Pike, Spaniards in the Holocaust: Mauthausen, Horror on the Danube and Haunschmied et al, St. Georgen - Gusen - Mauthausen: Concentration Camp Mauthausen Reconsidered, along with the Mauthausen Museum IIRC, describe murder of (using Pike's number) 4000 or so inmates in gas chambers, partially destroyed before the camp's liberation, in the Mauthausen system (see also: Schmidt & Loehrer, The Mauthausen Concentration Camp Complex: World War II and Postwar Records.)


So you're going to resurrect that which has been previously shown to be wrong information. Lies and exaggerations as suggested by JeffK. With all due respects, can we leave the goalposts where they are for now? We don't need more anecdotal evidence and especially by pro-holocaust revisionists.


Actually what Statistical Mechanic is doing is giving you sources for information regarding this gas chamber.

You seem to think this is an “either or” proposition. It is not. I’ve seen information both for and against the use of the gas chamber at Dachau. The reason why this is often split is due to the fact that these gas chambers were not used for large scale murders like the gas chambers at Auschwitz. There is no large amount of testimony or documents that detail the use of these gas chambers.

For example, I think the gas chamber at Dachau was used but only for experimental purposes. I base my assumption on that due to some small pieces of information, like this:

Image

Translation:

“Dr. Sigmund Rascher

Munich

Togerstr. 56

August 9, 1942

Esteemed Reichsführer!

As you know, the same installation as in Linz is to be built in Dachau. As the 'invalid transports' terminate in the special chambers anyway I wondered if it would be possible to test the effects of our combat gases in these chambers using the persons who are destined for those chambers anyway. The only reports which are available so far are for experiments on animals or of accidents in the manufacture of these gases.

(signed)

S. Rascher 28”

There is also some testimony from Captain S. Payne Best, a British officer who was held with Rauscher. Best talked to Rauscher before Rauscher’s execution. This is what he said:

Next morning when I went to wash, there was a little man with a ginger moustache in the lavatory who introduced himself as Dr. Rascher saying that he was half English and that his mother was related to the Chamberlain family. When I told him my name he was much interested saying that he knew about my case and that he had also met Stevens [another of the British officers - HWM] when he was medical officer in Dachau. ... He was a queer fellow; possibly the queerest character which has ever come my way.

Almost at our first meeting he told me that he had belonged to Himmler's personal staff, and that it was he who had planned and supervised the construction of the gas chambers and was responsible for the use of prisoners as guinea pigs in medical research. Obviously he saw nothing wrong in this and considered it merely a matter of expediency. As regards the gas chambers he said that Himmler, a very kind-hearted man, was most anxious that prisoners should be exterminated in a manner which caused them least anxiety and suffering, and the greatest trouble had been taken to design a gas chamber so camouflaged that its purpose would not be apparent, and to regulate the flow of the lethal gas so that the patients might fall asleep without recognizing that they would never wake. Unfortunately, Rascher said, they had never quite succeeded in solving the problem caused by the varying resistance of different people to the effects of poison gases, and always there had been a few who lived longer than others and recognized where they were and what was happening. Rascher said that the main difficulty was that the numbers to be killed were so great that it was impossible to prevent the gas chambers being overfilled, which greatly impeded any attempts to ensure a regular and simultaneous death-rate. 29


If I remember correctly a possible issue is that Rauscher may have been discussing the T-4 gassings however AKAIK Rauscher never participated in that program. Rauscher was a member of the Luftwaffe before Himmler attached him to his personal staff. It is likely that Rauscher may have witnessed some T-4 gassings. Those gassings used Carbon Monoxide gas.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:57 pm

For example, I think the gas chamber at Dachau was used but only for experimental purposes. I base my assumption on that due to some small pieces of information, like this:


Testing combat gases? You need to base your assumptions on the fact that the stories have been abandoned. You refer to them as 'lies and exaggerations'.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:58 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Actually what Statistical Mechanic is doing is giving you sources for information regarding this gas chamber.

Indeed. This guy - who is struggling with so much here, how the forum operates, basic literacy skills, elementary logic - doesn't appear to know what the concept he used, "moving the goalposts," refers to - and it is not giving a different answer to a question or additional information in a discussion, fss.
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:59 pm

montgomery wrote:
For example, I think the gas chamber at Dachau was used but only for experimental purposes. I base my assumption on that due to some small pieces of information, like this:


Testing combat gases? You need to base your assumptions on the fact that the stories have been abandoned. You refer to them as 'lies and exaggerations'.


No, what I do is try and give things a fresh look depending on what information I find.

What did I say about “either or?”
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:02 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Actually what Statistical Mechanic is doing is giving you sources for information regarding this gas chamber.

Indeed. This guy - who is struggling with so much here, how the forum operates, basic literacy skills, elementary logic - doesn't appear to know what the concept he used, "moving the goalposts," refers to - and it is not giving a different answer to a question or additional information in a discussion, fss.


Absolutely. The point is getting new sources for information is one of the reasons we all come here.

One of the bits I’ve read about the Mauthausen gas chamber comes from Shermer. That is very brief.

I mean to head back to the concentration camp system but keep finding new books I want to read on the Holocaust.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:17 pm

JeffK, Stat.mech just can't find it in himself to stop the personal attacks:

Indeed. This guy - who is struggling with so much here, how the forum operates, basic literacy skills, elementary logic


That reflects poorly on his personality flaws and not mine. It also reflects badly on you when you continue to entertain his inability to stop that kind of behavior.

I think it was going smoother when it was just the two of us talking and the rest were laying low for a while. I'm going to ignore him but if he says something important then maybe you will want to let me know?

Fwiw, I'll continue to respond to balmoral because he/she illustrates the behavior problem the best and needs to be used as an example. That's about all he does!

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:39 pm

montgomery wrote:JeffK, Stat.mech just can't find it in himself to stop the personal attacks:

Indeed. This guy - who is struggling with so much here, how the forum operates, basic literacy skills, elementary logic


That reflects poorly on his personality flaws and not mine. It also reflects badly on you when you continue to entertain his inability to stop that kind of behavior.

I think it was going smoother when it was just the two of us talking and the rest were laying low for a while. I'm going to ignore him but if he says something important then maybe you will want to let me know?

Fwiw, I'll continue to respond to balmoral because he/she illustrates the behavior problem the best and needs to be used as an example. That's about all he does!


Actually I respect Stat Mech’s knowledge in this matter and will continue to do so. You do not have to respond to him if you don’t want to. However even if you do not respond to him I suggest reading his posts.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby nickterry » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:34 pm

montgomery wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Alright, worked my way through some more of the video.

Much griping and moaning about the ADL and some about Holocaust denial laws.

Weber also brings up gassings at other camps like Mauthausen and Dachau. I’ve mentioned this before but these camps were ordinary concentration camps. They never figured into the Final Solution.


Yes, those were among the lies and exaggerations that have been corrected by people like those of the IHR.


The IHR corrected literally nothing in its entire history; it either hyped up things that were already corrected or distorted the facts, or denied them outright.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:22 pm

Somebody sure did Nick and I suggest that the IHR were at least at the front of the parade on exposing all the lies and exaggerations that have been abandoned. As to who were responsible for the 'lies and exaggerations', that's a question for the members of this forum.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Denying-History » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:41 pm

Can you point to one thing they corrected?
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:05 pm

Denying-History wrote:Can you point to one thing they corrected?


Yes. This is specifically an answer to your question and I'm not suggesting that the revised number is correct. I don't know if it's correct or not. That's why I'm here taking part as a skeptic and not a H-D'er.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992 ... -memorials

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Denying-History » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:06 pm

montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Can you point to one thing they corrected?


Yes. This is specifically an answer to your question and I'm not suggesting that the revised number is correct. I don't know if it's correct or not. That's why I'm here taking part as a skeptic and not a H-D'er.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992 ... -memorials

You really think they corrected that? That was the work of Piper not IHR. Take the time to read Van Pelts report to the Irving trial. I can provide a link if needed.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:27 pm

Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Can you point to one thing they corrected?


Yes. This is specifically an answer to your question and I'm not suggesting that the revised number is correct. I don't know if it's correct or not. That's why I'm here taking part as a skeptic and not a H-D'er.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992 ... -memorials

You really think they corrected that? That was the work of Piper not IHR. Take the time to read Van Pelts report to the Irving trial. I can provide a link if needed.


I didn't quote it as saying 'they' meant the IHR. It's an answer to your question. Provide a link to whatever you like but my answer stands.

My link is credible and it's not being denied by anyone. I can't accept that any links being provided by any of you will be credible. I base that judgment on your spamming and lack of proper manners. That's the downside for all of you for being ignorant spammers. The best thing for you all to do now is to begin to correct that problem between us.

Whether or not you do, I couldn't care less.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:03 pm

montgomery wrote:Somebody sure did Nick and I suggest that the IHR were at least at the front of the parade on exposing all the lies and exaggerations that have been abandoned. As to who were responsible for the 'lies and exaggerations', that's a question for the members of this forum.

All hat, no cattle.
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:10 pm

montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Can you point to one thing they corrected?


Yes. This is specifically an answer to your question and I'm not suggesting that the revised number is correct. I don't know if it's correct or not. That's why I'm here taking part as a skeptic and not a H-D'er.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992 ... -memorials

You really think they corrected that? That was the work of Piper not IHR. Take the time to read Van Pelts report to the Irving trial. I can provide a link if needed.


I didn't quote it as saying 'they' meant the IHR. It's an answer to your question. Provide a link to whatever you like but my answer stands.

My link is credible and it's not being denied by anyone. I can't accept that any links being provided by any of you will be credible. I base that judgment on your spamming and lack of proper manners. That's the downside for all of you for being ignorant spammers. The best thing for you all to do now is to begin to correct that problem between us.

Whether or not you do, I couldn't care less.

I don't know that anyone here cares what you - who offers up a Chicago Tribune news item on Piper's research, when you could have, ya know, offered up Piper's research - find credible. I sure don't. Btw, everyone posting here is well familiar with Piper's research, as it has been discussed numerous times.

You were asked by D-H what the IHR had corrected, you replied with this old news item on Piper . . . your reply didn't make sense. Still, one can conclude that, because you evidently can't answer D-H's question, you have nothing that IHR corrected, just as Nick Terry said.
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Denying-History » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:41 pm

>Can you point to one thing they corrected?

> Yes. This is specifically an answer to your question...*cites something related to Piper’s estimate of 1.1 million dead that is uninfluenced by IHR*

> That was the work of Piper not IHR.

>I didn't quote it as saying 'they' meant the IHR. It's an answer to your question...My link is credible and it's not being denied by anyone.

Image
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:59 pm

montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
montgomery wrote:
Denying-History wrote:Can you point to one thing they corrected?


Yes. This is specifically an answer to your question and I'm not suggesting that the revised number is correct. I don't know if it's correct or not. That's why I'm here taking part as a skeptic and not a H-D'er.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1992 ... -memorials

You really think they corrected that? That was the work of Piper not IHR. Take the time to read Van Pelts report to the Irving trial. I can provide a link if needed.


I didn't quote it as saying 'they' meant the IHR. It's an answer to your question. Provide a link to whatever you like but my answer stands.

My link is credible and it's not being denied by anyone. I can't accept that any links being provided by any of you will be credible. I base that judgment on your spamming and lack of proper manners. That's the downside for all of you for being ignorant spammers. The best thing for you all to do now is to begin to correct that problem between us.

Whether or not you do, I couldn't care less.


Except that Hilberg and Reitlinger both came up with lower numbers in the 50’s and 60’s. This was before any denier came up with anything regarding Auschwitz.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:27 pm

Shermer mentions that the Mauthausen GC was only used for small scale gassings. Same for Majdanek.

There was a heating unit (Mauthausen).

LOL, Shermer makes some rude people back off.

Mislabeled signs...yep (Majdanek).
Last edited by Jeffk 1970 on Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:34 pm

A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:39 pm

Alright, so finished with with the Weber/Shermer video.

Neither one was all that impressive. Weber whined a lot and Shermer fumbled around a lot. I think my perception is also somewhat colored by the fact that a lot of this is very old hat now.

I’ll see if I can track down the other debates that Stat Mech mentioned.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:40 pm

A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:50 pm

Pictures of Krema II and III show the vents:
Image
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Jeffk 1970
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:51 pm

Image
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Denying-History
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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Denying-History » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:51 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Shermer mentions that the Mauthausen GC was only used for small scale gassings. Same for Majdanek.

There was a heating unit.

LOL, Shermer makes some rude people back off.

Mislabeled signs...yep (Majdanek).

Not so sure Shermer said that about Majdanek. He said 60,000 were gassed at the camp, which is four-five times too high. As for Mauthausen, his suggestion for the internal heating system is based on this statement from Hans Marsalek:

this room, 3.7m long and 3.5 wide, partially covered with tiles, was disguised as if it was a shower, with 16 shower-heads. Central heating and lights were on a wall, above the tiles; in a corner of the ceiling was an electric ventilator and a glazed pipe about a meter long. In a part of the wall that was not visible, this tube had a large half-centimeter split in it, around 80cm long, and was connected with the gas storage point in the adjacent cell. The switches for the lights, water and the ventilation were all outside the gas chamber. A brick that had already been heated up was placed above a shovel, and carefully laid down at the bottom of the container. An SS man, wearing a gas-mask, placed the Zyklon-B on the brick, and the container would immediately be sealed and hermetically closed via two lateral screws. The warmth given off by the brick caused the rapid release of the gas.

http://www.deportati.it/wp-content/static/upl/ga/gas-maida.pdf

Here is a picture from Marslaek's book provided by BROI:

Image

I believe it was also BROI when I was relatively new, also pointed out that Shermer's own photographs in his book show a heating unit inside of the regular shower room at the camp. The internal heating also would not have effected the gasses evaporation which is why a brink was used. It was introduced from a separate room. Which Shermer detailed in one of his articles:
According to the newly published Nazi Mass Murder (Kogon, et al, 1993), this gas chamber was in the cellar of a prison bunker, near the crematoria, with no windows and two doors that "could be hermetically sealed." Gas was piped in from an adjacent room called the gas cell through an enameled pipe "which had a slot in it about a meter long on the side nearest the wall (in other words, on the side invisible from the room). The remains of this gassing facility can still be seen today" (p. 177). If the doors can be hermetically sealed they can also be locked.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-12.html
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Balmoral95 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:55 pm

>It's an answer to your question. Provide a link to whatever you like but my answer stands. "

The above means I have to admit that I truly misjudged you: You're really a bigger fat headed troll than I ever thought was possible.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:56 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Shermer mentions that the Mauthausen GC was only used for small scale gassings. Same for Majdanek.

There was a heating unit.

LOL, Shermer makes some rude people back off.

Mislabeled signs...yep (Majdanek).

Not so sure Shermer said that about Majdanek. He said 60,000 were gassed at the camp, which is four-five times too high. As for Mauthausen, his suggestion for the internal heating system is based on this statement from Hans Marsalek:

this room, 3.7m long and 3.5 wide, partially covered with tiles, was disguised as if it was a shower, with 16 shower-heads. Central heating and lights were on a wall, above the tiles; in a corner of the ceiling was an electric ventilator and a glazed pipe about a meter long. In a part of the wall that was not visible, this tube had a large half-centimeter split in it, around 80cm long, and was connected with the gas storage point in the adjacent cell. The switches for the lights, water and the ventilation were all outside the gas chamber. A brick that had already been heated up was placed above a shovel, and carefully laid down at the bottom of the container. An SS man, wearing a gas-mask, placed the Zyklon-B on the brick, and the container would immediately be sealed and hermetically closed via two lateral screws. The warmth given off by the brick caused the rapid release of the gas.

http://www.deportati.it/wp-content/static/upl/ga/gas-maida.pdf

Here is a picture from Marslaek's book provided by BROI:

Image

I believe it was also BROI when I was relatively new, also pointed out that Shermer's own photographs in his book show a heating unit inside of the regular shower room at the camp. The internal heating also would not have effected the gasses evaporation which is why a brink was used. It was introduced from a separate room. Which Shermer detailed in one of his articles:
According to the newly published Nazi Mass Murder (Kogon, et al, 1993), this gas chamber was in the cellar of a prison bunker, near the crematoria, with no windows and two doors that "could be hermetically sealed." Gas was piped in from an adjacent room called the gas cell through an enameled pipe "which had a slot in it about a meter long on the side nearest the wall (in other words, on the side invisible from the room). The remains of this gassing facility can still be seen today" (p. 177). If the doors can be hermetically sealed they can also be locked.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-12.html


I must have misheard him but I thought that’s what he said about about Majdanek.

I read Shermer’s book “Denying History” and he did discuss this in some detail. I went to find my PDF of it but unfortunately it’s vanished. I do see that he updated it in 2009:

https://www.amazon.com/Denying-History-Holocaust-Happened-Expanded/dp/0520260988/ref=nodl_
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Denying-History
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Posts: 2056
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Denying-History » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:58 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Shermer mentions that the Mauthausen GC was only used for small scale gassings. Same for Majdanek.

There was a heating unit.

LOL, Shermer makes some rude people back off.

Mislabeled signs...yep (Majdanek).

Not so sure Shermer said that about Majdanek. He said 60,000 were gassed at the camp, which is four-five times too high. As for Mauthausen, his suggestion for the internal heating system is based on this statement from Hans Marsalek:

this room, 3.7m long and 3.5 wide, partially covered with tiles, was disguised as if it was a shower, with 16 shower-heads. Central heating and lights were on a wall, above the tiles; in a corner of the ceiling was an electric ventilator and a glazed pipe about a meter long. In a part of the wall that was not visible, this tube had a large half-centimeter split in it, around 80cm long, and was connected with the gas storage point in the adjacent cell. The switches for the lights, water and the ventilation were all outside the gas chamber. A brick that had already been heated up was placed above a shovel, and carefully laid down at the bottom of the container. An SS man, wearing a gas-mask, placed the Zyklon-B on the brick, and the container would immediately be sealed and hermetically closed via two lateral screws. The warmth given off by the brick caused the rapid release of the gas.

http://www.deportati.it/wp-content/static/upl/ga/gas-maida.pdf

Here is a picture from Marslaek's book provided by BROI:

Image

I believe it was also BROI when I was relatively new, also pointed out that Shermer's own photographs in his book show a heating unit inside of the regular shower room at the camp. The internal heating also would not have effected the gasses evaporation which is why a brink was used. It was introduced from a separate room. Which Shermer detailed in one of his articles:
According to the newly published Nazi Mass Murder (Kogon, et al, 1993), this gas chamber was in the cellar of a prison bunker, near the crematoria, with no windows and two doors that "could be hermetically sealed." Gas was piped in from an adjacent room called the gas cell through an enameled pipe "which had a slot in it about a meter long on the side nearest the wall (in other words, on the side invisible from the room). The remains of this gassing facility can still be seen today" (p. 177). If the doors can be hermetically sealed they can also be locked.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-12.html


I must have misheard him but I thought that’s what he said about about Majdanek.

I read Shermer’s book “Denying History” and he did discuss this in some detail. I went to find my PDF of it but unfortunately it’s vanished. I do see that he updated it in 2009:

https://www.amazon.com/Denying-History-Holocaust-Happened-Expanded/dp/0520260988/ref=nodl_

k0nsl's "archive" was shut down.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:02 am

That explains it.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:25 am

Holocaust promotion has really become an industry hasn't it. Israel wouldn't be protected and justified by Americans if it wasn't for holocaust sympathy. It's an evil apartheid regime that couldn't survive if it wasn't for U.S. support of the evil.

And it serves the U.S.'s PNAC agenda aimed at complete control over the entire M.E.

Unfortunately for the U.S., the window of opportunity between the fall of the Soviet Union and the rise of Russian powr and influence has been slammed shut. Syria and Iran are now out of bounds for the U.S. because of Russian and Chinese nuclear deterrent that stands in the way of the U.S.

This is why the holocaust must be kept alive and even expanded upon over 70 years later.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:37 am

.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Balmoral95 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:44 am

Bad Linky

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:45 am

montgomery wrote:Holocaust promotion has really become an industry hasn't it.


It has? What sort of numbers do you have on it?


Israel wouldn't be protected and justified by Americans if it wasn't for holocaust sympathy. It's an evil apartheid regime that couldn't survive if it wasn't for U.S. support of the evil.


I think it has more do so with the fact that Israel is an ally for the US in the Middle East, the Christian Evangelicals think the pressence of Israel is sign they are going home soon and a certain anti-Islamic sentiment exists right now.

BTW it’s a mistake to think that any of us support Israeli policies right now. I personally think Netanyahu is a ginormous asshat.

And it serves the U.S.'s PNAC agenda aimed at complete control over the entire M.E.


I’m sure that’s it.

Unfortunately for the U.S., the window of opportunity between the fall of the Soviet Union and the rise of Russian powr and influence has been slammed shut. Syria and Iran are now out of bounds for the U.S. because of Russian and Chinese nuclear deterrent that stands in the way of the U.S.


Okey dokey.


This is why the holocaust must be kept alive and even expanded upon over 70 years later.


Shades of IHR silliness...
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

montgomery
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Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby montgomery » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:48 am

Balmoral95 wrote:Bad Linky


I don't think so balmoral.

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Re: Stuff We Can Talk About: Lies and Exaggerations

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:49 am

monty is right, I fixed it. One number went missing...
.

Lard, save me from your followers.


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