Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:05 am

lmftfy:
Jeffk 1970 wrote: That was pure Sock’n’Troll.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:17 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Is a Forum about chasing people away?......Or involving them in clear debate to change their minds.....even if only a little bit??? Inquiring minds want to know.


I suggest that anti holocaust denial forums, like ours, have been somewhat successful in pushing down the 90s growth of internet deniers, through facts and argument. I would argue that the recent political change in the USA has allowed people who would normally promote holocaust denial, to now seek more open attention on a whole range of idiotic claims such as 9/11 conspiracies, JFK conspiracies, moon landing conspiracies and so on. However in two years, five years, or ten years, when commonsense returns to the political landscape, I imagine hardcore holocaust deniers will return from underneath their rocks.

The facts about the holocaust don't change. This sub forum may appear to be treading water, but the idiot holocaust deniers will return and the facts will need to be presented to them again....and again.....and again.

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:35 am

Matt: that does appear to be a major influence in the health/strength/variety of the HD forum. Few results have single causes. You have great and varied expertise on many of the subjects within the HD. Why don't you post there?
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:10 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:You have great and varied expertise on many of the subjects within the HD. Why don't you post there?
I was the main poster in this sub forum for about five years, in volume, mostly against a denier called David. However, I don't have the knowledge of fellow members, such as Statistical Mechanic and others. Once the number of holocaust deniers fell, I moved onto other topics in the general forum.
I read the more recent posts to upgrade my knowledge.

In my mind, once Dr Caroline Colls did a forensic excavation of Treblinka around 2014, that was pretty well the end of any future logical arguments from holocaust deniers.
:D

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:18 am

You are being uncharacteristically modest......the HD forum touches on more than just HD or H. In fact, its totally off topic on Trump and you don't post much there if at all. You might give it another look???? Got to get rather tiring beating up on Gorgeous, although your last post was a magnificent reveal.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:43 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Is a Forum about chasing people away?......Or involving them in clear debate to change their minds.....even if only a little bit??? Inquiring minds want to know.


I suggest that anti holocaust denial forums, like ours, have been somewhat successful in pushing down the 90s growth of internet deniers, through facts and argument. I would argue that the recent political change in the USA has allowed people who would normally promote holocaust denial, to now seek more open attention on a whole range of idiotic claims such as 9/11 conspiracies, JFK conspiracies, moon landing conspiracies and so on. However in two years, five years, or ten years, when commonsense returns to the political landscape, I imagine hardcore holocaust deniers will return from underneath their rocks.

The facts about the holocaust don't change. This sub forum may appear to be treading water, but the idiot holocaust deniers will return and the facts will need to be presented to them again....and again.....and again.

We have in a few cases changed the minds of Holocaust deniers. But that's not why I have engaged in "debate" with them. By far, most of them are so far gone and so locked into irrational thought that such a goal is meaningless. It would be like trying to convince the spittle-flecked raving street preacher that the end of the world is not nigh. Or Lyndon Larouche that there is not an Anglo-Dutch conspiracy behind world events. Or a Nazi ideologue that Jewish wire-pulling isn’t a key to world history. Or, apparently, bobbo of anything.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:36 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: Or, apparently, bobbo of anything.

Speaking of, good example of, feckless putdown? Why even make such an empty gesture? "If you didn't have me on ignore"...you would read where I have expressly admitted to error. Its YOU. Unwilling to let some over reacted to slight go over the passage of time. You have ready alternatives, but you prefer to present yourself poorly .... for what?

Amusing that someone with your knowledge and skill would have such a gaping weakness. Not hugged enough?
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:02 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:I was the main poster in this sub forum for about five years, in volume, mostly against a denier called David.

Matthew, in your view, as you "knew" David for so long, what became of him? IIRC he used to take short "sabbaticals" from time to time. Under other names, he published in CODOH and worked on some HD projects. But he would not be a "Twitter denier" or a "YouTube denier," so why, do you think, he left here?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:20 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Is a Forum about chasing people away?......Or involving them in clear debate to change their minds.....even if only a little bit??? Inquiring minds want to know.


I suggest that anti holocaust denial forums, like ours, have been somewhat successful in pushing down the 90s growth of internet deniers, through facts and argument. I would argue that the recent political change in the USA has allowed people who would normally promote holocaust denial, to now seek more open attention on a whole range of idiotic claims such as 9/11 conspiracies, JFK conspiracies, moon landing conspiracies and so on. However in two years, five years, or ten years, when commonsense returns to the political landscape, I imagine hardcore holocaust deniers will return from underneath their rocks.

The facts about the holocaust don't change. This sub forum may appear to be treading water, but the idiot holocaust deniers will return and the facts will need to be presented to them again....and again.....and again.


I think the hard core went forums like CODOH or RODOH so they could denial away to their heart's content.

I see the growth of deniers on Twitter. These are the casual ones, easily impressed by quote mines, memes and YouTube videos. I seriously doubt any of them ever read a Holocaust Handbook or do any real research on their own.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:31 pm

Btw, contrary to one member's self-defensive and untethered whining, we can be sure that David, Monstrous, Mary Q, etc did not leave this forum because they felt abused or somehow set upon by an inbred population. Blake and poor, sad NSDAP, perhaps felt hard done to (IMO such are the wages of being a denier and/or Nazi apologist). But not David, Monstrous, and Mary Q.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:45 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Matthew, in your view, as you "knew" David for so long, what became of him? IIRC he used to take short "sabbaticals" from time to time. Under other names, he published in CODOH and worked on some HD projects. But he would not be a "Twitter denier" or a "YouTube denier," so why, do you think, he left here?


I think that he was simply very old and already "going off in the head" when he was last posting here. :lol:

His last post was February 2017
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27645&p=561306#p561306

His first post was October 2005
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=1215&start=4960

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jun 22, 2018 12:11 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Btw, contrary to one member's self-defensive and untethered whining, we can be sure that David, Monstrous, Mary Q, etc did not leave this forum because they felt abused or somehow set upon by an inbred population.

Stat Mech:

1. You can put forth that opinion "now" but also now just refer to the OP. Your ilk take pride in what you deny. That doesn't mean that Jeffk's DIRECT OPPOSITION to what you post is true...but it doesn't support it. THE TRUTH: always a mix of things.

2. I know this is a subtlety in the language that none of your ilk deal very well with, but IIRC I have never commented on your, or your ilk's behavior towards other people or what you have done historically. Again: reference the OP. I am talking about what you have become. Two different time periods/issues entirely.

3.
contrary to one member's self-defensive
/// Again: words and what they mean. I have not been self defensive at all. I CHALLENGE YOU to copy and paste any post that indicates such. Rather: I an "CHALLENGING YOU" any your ILK to rather DEFEND WHAT YOU POST. And so far.....YOU and your ilk have been miserable failures at doing this.

4.
and untethered whining
/// Ha, ha: right here a good example of your failure to argue competently. My arguments are just as set forth here: ENTIRELY TETHERED. I copy and paste the language I am concerned with and response directly to it. More complete language failure, stringing together catch phrases that don't apply at all. Actually putting untethered on display.

5.
and untethered whining
/// Whining? Again: not hardly. Or is that what you call anyone who takes you to task? You won't find that definition in the dictionary.....but you obviously don't use the dictionary.

Its amusing: how manipulators of the truth will try to turn the truth around on their chosen targets. Trapped in their own projections of unrecognized hypocrisy: Just look.

Stat Mech: what do you get out of trying to dog other people? You could have made your post above without trying to get a false and manipulated dig in at me. It could have been: "To my memory, David, Monstrous, Mary Q, etc did not leave this forum because they felt abused or somehow set upon by the regular members of the HD sub forum" but you chose to be passive aggressive, rude, wrong, and rather inept. So....I confront you DIRECTLY and show you in detail how and why. if you follow your pattern: you will not reply, because you have none. WORDS HAVE MEANING...and the argument is placed before you.

Course.......the natural reaction to an unanswered charge is that it is probably correct. But people don't need to assume anything, they can just read what is here.

So, I'll ask again, which really is the import of this thread: why don't you stop the sniping and stick to the subject of any given thread? Ab hominem: I know you know the definition well...why do you do it? Or, more to the point: why don't you stop it?????

Every day, every new post, brings the opportunity to chose who we are, how we present ourselves. Choose ..... as you will. I prefer substance.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:53 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:His last post was February 2017

He last looked in, apparently deciding once again not to post anything, about 9 months after that - and has not been seen since last November.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:33 pm

Hey, I’m back to being an ilk again. Cool.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:43 pm

How did you become an ilk?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:12 pm

Bobbo appointed me.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:19 pm

Ah good for you. Your mother must be so proud. But who appointed bobbo?

Has this forum become too white bread?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:22 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Ah good for you. Your mother must be so proud.


Not so sure, she really wanted a priest in the family. I guess she’ll have to settle for ilk.

:D

But who appointed bobbo?


The Jews. They own this forum so they can appoint who they wish.

Has this forum become too white bread?


Well, it’ll get better once bobbo leaves.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
Edith Baneth
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:56 pm

We are all ilk. There is even and Int'l Brotherhood of Ilks. Weird word. Sounds "norse" to me.

...............Just put on my glasses: make that Elk. .......Nevermind.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Darren Wilshak » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:34 pm

Its Scots of course. See ilka.

'In modern use, ilk is used in phrases such as of his ilk, of that ilk, to mean ‘type’ or ‘sort.’ The use arose out of a misunderstanding of the earlier, Scottish use in the phrase of that ilk, where it means ‘of the same name or place.’ For this reason, some traditionalists regard the modern use as incorrect. It is, however, the only common current use and is now part of standard English.'


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ilk

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:27 pm

Yeah....thanks Darren. Ironically, I did only mean "North" (of England) which is what Norse meant to me as I typed it, even though if Norse means vikings....they were south in Denmark? Ahh...its all time sensitive stuff as in what century are we thinking of.

But "same place." Lots of the early languages/ideas/cultural memes are based on "Where" you are/came from. Almost a property interest as in who your Lord is?

Norse: Of or relating to Norway or its people or culture or language /// Yeah....I wasn't thinking Norway at all.
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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:17 pm

To underscore the extent to which deniers have abandoned debate forums: there has been one post in the ISF (JREF) Holocaust denial thread in the past month. From Nessie. The last time a denier posted there was a little more than a month ago (Mondial drive-by) and Saggy's last post came in late September just before ISF clamped down by putting the thread on temporary moderation status.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Has the HD Forum become too Inbred?

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:42 am

I suspect that we will see an influx of deniers in the next year or so. A decent chunk of the /pol/ and R/TheDonald types will eventually find their way to HD methinks. They will be more like ShredBlue and less like MGK.


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