The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:33 am

LOL a YouTube about trouble in Malmö this week trumps Meldung 51 when it comes to understanding the Final Solution, I see.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:34 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Why don't you two get a room :roll:


Not my type.
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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:37 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Why don't you two get a room :roll:


Not my type.


Then stop encouraging it.

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:39 am

VFX wrote:Jeff you invited us here and we obliged. It was assumed you wished to know a little about the party.


Thank you but I already got the gist.

I was more interested in your views on the Reinhard Camps and this rogue element responsible for the deaths there.

Would you care to elaborate?
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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:45 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:
VFX wrote:There is simply no evidence to link Herr Hitler to the murders. If you guys can find some then throw it at me, I'll stand in the corner and take the mud. He was the NSDAP in those times.

Already have above.

Instead of a reply to Sergey Romanov we get maudlin clichés about manning up, brave young lads, the sadness done to Jews, a Zyklon B joke and . . . urgent issues that must be dealt with and late-breaking insights (since edited) . . . with Churchill thrown in (and also edited out).

Sergey nor I nor Balmoral posted a wall of items - it stands at just one item. A direct response to a request. Still without reply to it.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:48 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Would you care to elaborate?

I recall that he said that he doesn't want to do evidence - unless he can ask others for it - and prefers to ruminate on man's fate and the meaning of life.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:15 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Would you care to elaborate?

I recall that he said that he doesn't want to do evidence - unless he can ask others for it - and prefers to ruminate on man's fate and the meaning of life.


Well perhaps our philosopher would be better suited to a sidewalk/train station/subway/airport workplace.

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:26 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Well perhaps our philosopher would be better suited to a sidewalk/train station/subway/airport workplace.

Maybe but I have met many individuals like you who are brave in an anonymous situation; some were real spies and secret agents, some were just like you. I have also spoken nicely to the same tough dudes on a one to one situation, their opinions changed considerably at that point.
Last edited by VFX on Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:32 am

So you've got nothing but deep humanity and kindness.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:33 am

VFX, is there any documentary evidence or insights on how your belief in the function of the Reinhard Camps came about?
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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:34 am

VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Well perhaps our philosopher would be better suited to a sidewalk/train station/subway/airport workplace.

Maybe but I have met many individuals like you who are brave in an anonymous situation; some were real spies and secret agents, some were just like you. I have also spoken nicely to the same tough dudes on a one to one situation, their opinions changed considerably at that point.


Dude, you don't know shite about me.

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:38 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:VFX, is there any documentary evidence or insights on how your belief in the function of the Reinhard Camps came about?


Ahem, that ship sailed before the OP...

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:39 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:VFX, is there any documentary evidence or insights on how your belief in the function of the Reinhard Camps came about?

I believe he has another friend, this one from Göteborg, who fled in the dark of night to Denmark, because, you know, Europe is in trouble, and he knows some tough guys whom he killed with kindness. He's also got some old scans of Wehrmacht action. And The Team will come up with more. Once their current urgent tasks have been fulfilled.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:41 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:VFX, is there any documentary evidence or insights on how your belief in the function of the Reinhard Camps came about?

As you might have figured I lived through those times in a very National Socialist family. It is Reinhart gee. not named after Reinhard Heydrich at all.... though he is sorta a hero of mine due to his sporting ability and intellectual acumen. Could have been my dad, and I'd still be proud of him. The issue at the moment is just anecdotal and hearsay but they all spoke about it. It was normal talk when I was a kid. I agree that if the 2nd Fuhrer didn't know he was not fit to lead the country. Much of the evidence, points to trends and patterns. I think in your language this is called Circumstantial evidence.

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:41 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
VFX wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Well perhaps our philosopher would be better suited to a sidewalk/train station/subway/airport workplace.

Maybe but I have met many individuals like you who are brave in an anonymous situation; some were real spies and secret agents, some were just like you. I have also spoken nicely to the same tough dudes on a one to one situation, their opinions changed considerably at that point.


Dude, you don't know shite about me.

I know your mindset and that is enough, only a few people think like you.
Last edited by VFX on Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:42 am

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:VFX, is there any documentary evidence or insights on how your belief in the function of the Reinhard Camps came about?

As you might have figured I lived through those times in a very National Socialist family. It is Reinhart gee. not named after Reinhard Heydrich at all.... though he is sorta a hero of mine due to his sporting ability and intellectual acumen. Could have been my dad, and I'd still be proud of him. The issue at the moment is just anecdotal and hearsay but they all spoke about it. It was normal talk when I was a kid. I agree that if the 2nd Fuhrer didn't know he was not fit to lead the country. Much of the evidence, points to trends and patterns. I think in your language this is called Circumstantial evidence.

Jeffk, knock it off. This isn't even believable. Who was it at Rodoh that figured out this is your sock puppet attempt?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:50 am

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I think in your language this is called Circumstantial evidence.

No, we call this BS.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:52 am

Henry but let’s face it, he’s a silly old Nazi who wanted to use Soviet methods on me.

Alright, well, enough is enough.

I’m moving on....
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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:53 am

This Henry guy was right though, true?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:56 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Henry but let’s face it, he’s a silly old Nazi who wanted to use Soviet methods on me.

Alright, well, enough is enough.

I’m moving on....

what Soviet methods?

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:56 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:This Henry guy was right though, true?


If I was going to create a sock puppet I’d introduce myself like this:

Hi, brand new to all of this. I recently stumbled across Holocaust Revisionism while I exploring YouTube. I watched some of "The Greatest Story Never Told" and it really surprised me. Adolf Hitler was not at all like I learned in school. Anyway, I did some more research and was really surprised by the things I didn't know about Auschwitz.

For example, why would a "death camp" have a brothel, of all things? I know the swimming pool was already mentioned but I also learned about the prisoners that were sent out of the camp. I also can't help but notice the change in the plaque but there's no change in the overall numbers for the dead Jews.

Anyway, just wanted to start with my first comment. I've learned a lot already, I think I'm gonna enjoy this forum. Thanks from a newbie.


:lol:
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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:57 am

VFX wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Henry but let’s face it, he’s a silly old Nazi who wanted to use Soviet methods on me.

Alright, well, enough is enough.

I’m moving on....

what Soviet methods?


A bullet in the back of head.
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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:59 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:This Henry guy was right though, true?


If I was going to create a sock puppet I’d introduce myself like this:

Hi, brand new to all of this. I recently stumbled across Holocaust Revisionism while I exploring YouTube. I watched some of "The Greatest Story Never Told" and it really surprised me. Adolf Hitler was not at all like I learned in school. Anyway, I did some more research and was really surprised by the things I didn't know about Auschwitz.

For example, why would a "death camp" have a brothel, of all things? I know the swimming pool was already mentioned but I also learned about the prisoners that were sent out of the camp. I also can't help but notice the change in the plaque but there's no change in the overall numbers for the dead Jews.

Anyway, just wanted to start with my first comment. I've learned a lot already, I think I'm gonna enjoy this forum. Thanks from a newbie.


:lol:

Lol

Ok not you, not poosh ... then who?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:02 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
A bullet in the back of head.

MMM we were taught to put the barrel in the top of the neck and point upwards. That works. An ordinary .38 will do it without blood and brains, teeth and tongue splattering everywhere.
Last edited by VFX on Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:07 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:This Henry guy was right though, true?


If I was going to create a sock puppet I’d introduce myself like this:

Hi, brand new to all of this. I recently stumbled across Holocaust Revisionism while I exploring YouTube. I watched some of "The Greatest Story Never Told" and it really surprised me. Adolf Hitler was not at all like I learned in school. Anyway, I did some more research and was really surprised by the things I didn't know about Auschwitz.

For example, why would a "death camp" have a brothel, of all things? I know the swimming pool was already mentioned but I also learned about the prisoners that were sent out of the camp. I also can't help but notice the change in the plaque but there's no change in the overall numbers for the dead Jews.

Anyway, just wanted to start with my first comment. I've learned a lot already, I think I'm gonna enjoy this forum. Thanks from a newbie.


:lol:

Lol

Ok not you, not poosh ... then who?

Maryzilla.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:21 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:This Henry guy was right though, true?


If I was going to create a sock puppet I’d introduce myself like this:

Hi, brand new to all of this. I recently stumbled across Holocaust Revisionism while I exploring YouTube. I watched some of "The Greatest Story Never Told" and it really surprised me. Adolf Hitler was not at all like I learned in school. Anyway, I did some more research and was really surprised by the things I didn't know about Auschwitz.

For example, why would a "death camp" have a brothel, of all things? I know the swimming pool was already mentioned but I also learned about the prisoners that were sent out of the camp. I also can't help but notice the change in the plaque but there's no change in the overall numbers for the dead Jews.

Anyway, just wanted to start with my first comment. I've learned a lot already, I think I'm gonna enjoy this forum. Thanks from a newbie.


:lol:

Lol

Ok not you, not poosh ... then who?


Ian Fish-Hazard.
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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:28 pm

Henry? :)
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:36 pm

LOL
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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:09 am

Well, this was informative and exciting . . .
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:30 pm

VFX wrote:There is simply no evidence to link Herr Hitler to the murders.

Simply no evidence - or perhaps 33 pieces of such evidence:

1. Gestapo Müller, directive on Einsatzgruppen reports, 1 August 1941 (Fleming, pp 109-110, Unwritten, p 124, http://www.genocideeducation.ca/kershaw.pdf)

2. Himmler, instructions to Bradfisch in Minsk, mid-August 1941 (Fleming, pp 50-51)

3. Himmler, explanation, late summer 1941, as related in 1962 by Horst Bender, dept III Himmler’s staff and SS and Police Judge (Fleming, p 51)

4. Himmler, explanation, September 1941, Streckenbach 1962 interrogation (Fleming, p 52)

5. Himmler, explanation, before Heydrich’s death, date unclear, Gottlob Berger 1962 interrogation (Fleming, p 52)

6. Jeckeln, instructions from Himmler, 10-11 November 1941 (Fleming, p 44)

7. Hitler, from notes on meeting with Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini, 28 November 1941 (Fleming, pp 102-105; https://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/view ... nstructing)

8. Goebbels’ diary, 13 December 1941 (Unwritten, p 154; https://www.hdot.org/longrole/# - http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micro ... 203875.pdf)

9. Rosenberg diary, 14 December 1941 (Unwritten, p 155)

10. Frank speech, 16 December 1941 (http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... moval.html, Gerlach's Wannsee article)

11. Himmler diary, 18 December 1941 (Unwritten, p 155)

12. Eichmann interrogation, preceding Wannsee Conference - late 1941? (Fleming, p 67)

13. Goebbels diary, 14 February 1942 (Unwritten, p 157)

14. Goebbels diary, 2 March 1942 (https://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/view ... nstructing)

15. Goebbels diary, 20 March 1942 (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goe ... ts-01.html)

16. Goebbels diary, 27 March 1942 (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/goe ... ts-01.html - Fleming pp 62-63, 111, Unwritten, pp 172-173)

17. Wisliceny IMT testimony re: Eichmann & Final Solution order, April 1942 (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/01-03-46.asp)

18. Heydrich, Prague conference on SD and Intelligence Service responsibilities, May 1942, declaration of Otto Wagner 1979 (Fleming p 60)

19. Goebbels’ diary, 29 May 1942 (Unwritten, p 184)

20. Himmler, explanation, early summer 1942, Streckenbach 1962 interrogation (Fleming, p 52)

21. Himmler to Gottlob Berger, 28 July 1942 (https://www.hdot.org/longrole/; Fleming, p 112)

22. Himmler, announcing that armaments workers were to be collected into camps, 9 October 1942 (Unwritten, p 189; Fleming, pp 44, 128)

23. Himmler, notes on conversation with Führer, follow-up notes to Müller - on France, 6 and 10 December 1942 (Unwritten, pp 109-110; Fleming, p 66)

24. Meldung 51, 3 December 1942, Himmler to Hitler (http://www.genocideeducation.ca/kershaw.pdf; Unwritten, p 150)

25. Korherr report for Hitler, January 1943 (Fleming, pp 135-139)

26. First Schloss Klessheim meeting, 17-18 March 1943 (Fleming, pp 157-166; Unwritten, p 203; Longerich Irving Trial https://www.hdot.org/longrole/; http://www.genocideeducation.ca/kershaw.pdf)

27. Hitler, 8 June 1943 (1384-PS Red Series vol III, p 959; HC White Paper)

28. Himmler speech, Posen, to generals, 26 January 1944, declaration of Freiherr von Gersdorff 1979 (Fleming, pp 52-53)

29. Himmler, Sonthofen speech, 24 May 1944 (Fleming, p 54)

30. Himmler, secret speech, 21 June 1944 (Fleming, p 54)

31. Himmler, secret speech, 21 July 1944 (Longerich Irving Trial https://www.hdot.org/longrole/)

32. Eichmann, Sassen interviews, “. . . the order of the one-time Fuhrer of the German Reich, Adolf Hitler . . .” (http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/german/ ... intro.html)

33. Eichmann memoir/papers, Ich (https://www.hdot.org/vanpelt/#note_vanPelt_xi2n1012)

References are a bit sloppy - I grabbed a lot from the following as it was easier than tracking down other places, one point being that this is not exactly news:
Fleming = Gerald Fleming, Hitler and the Final Solution
Unwritten = Longerich, The Unwritten Order
also used: https://www.phdn.org/archives/www.ess.u ... ements.htm
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/america ... tic-9.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ation.html
(I listed some postwar accounts but excluded a number cited in Fleming and elsewhere along with these items: Höss's memoir etc on account dating problems; Stuckart to Lösener 21 December 1941 on Rumbula; the NMT and Filbert Einsatzgruppen trials; Wannsee Protocol; Franke-Gricksch, Hitler’s testament 29 April 1945; Table Talk; Kaltenbrunner testimony; Wetzel on Brack - too far from Hitler, Kersten's memoir, and Hitler’s prophecy speeches and comments of others on them.)
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:21 pm

having gone through the evidence surrounding the Wetzel letter more closely, I'd "promote" Wetzel's 25 October 1941 letter and his 1961 Hannover testimony onto the list of pieces of evidence linking Hitler to the mass murder of Jews during the war
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:34 pm

Jeffk, what happened to VFX? allergic to evidence?
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: The Reinhard Camps: A Rogue Operation?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:02 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Jeffk, what happened to VFX? allergic to evidence?


LOL, I don’t know. I asked him again to give me evidence of his views, he stayed silent about it.
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