Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:01 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:My sense from reading the thread is that Hart plagiarized passages from Żywulska. I've not read either book.


I suppose it’s possible that Hart plagiarized, it’s also possible that Green is cherrypicking to make his point. There’s no way to tell that Hart even read Zywulska’s account but Hart wrote her book 10 years after Zywulska published hers. If Hart did it’s entirely possible that doing so contaminated her memories of Auschwitz.

Like you I haven’t read either book and I won’t. I did some on-line digging around, I don’t see anyone questioning Hart’s account of what happened to her other than the posts at RODOH, here and AHF.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:45 pm

Hart's book is very obviously literary-dependent on Zywulska's. How to characterize this is another issue.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Nessie » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:12 pm

"Literary-dependent", that is a nice way to put it!

Zywulska was born in 1918 and was 25 when she went to Auschwitz. K H-M was born in 1926 and was 16. I would expect both to be then be old enough to have their own adult memories of the camp, I certainly remember events when I was 16 as clearly as I remember events when I was 25. Zywulska wrote her book when she was 28 years old, as opposed to K H-M whose book came out when she was 35. If someone was a child in the campand elderly when they wrote their memoires, I could understand using another source for "assistance", shall we say. But not a 35 year old recollecting memories from when they were 16.

I think that it is telling what even Wikipedia has to say;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Har ... er_the_war

"Certain episodes in the book "I Am Alive" appear to be directly copied from a book by the Polish survivor Krystyna Zywulska, published in English translation with the title "I Came Back". The Polish original of Zywulska's book was published in 1946 and the English translation in 1951, so it was possible for Hart to have read Zywulska's book and incorporated episodes from it in her own book published 10 years later. The most dramatic such episode, that of the "white powder", describes a homicidal gassing in Crematorium IV at the Birkenau camp, which both Zywulska and Hart claim to have personally witnessed from "Kanada", the buildings where the possessions taken from the victims of gassings were stored and sorted. In both accounts, an SS-man is observed climbing a ladder placed on the outside of a wall of Crematorium IV, taking a bag from his pocket and pouring its contents, described as a white powder, through a small window, after which the cries of the dying victims locked inside the gas chamber are heard. In the Zywulska book this incident comprises a whole chapter with the title "White Powder". The similarities between the two accounts are so strong that they cannot be coincidental, and the only conclusion can be that Hart copied her description of the incident from Zywulska's book. That calls into question how much of Hart's book is based on her personal experiences and how much is copied from other sources."

The only saving grace for K M-H, is there independent evidence she was definitely at Auschwitz? I can find claims about her and her mother's tattoo beign removed and preserved. But is she registered at the camp with the number given?
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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:42 pm

As I understand it, Hart has long claimed that her prisoner number was 39934 and her mother's, 39933. For those not reading the AHF thread, Yuli wrote there:
Assuming the reported prisoner numbers are correct, then, according to Danuta Czech, Auschwitz Chronicle, Owl Books 1997, Page 366 and page 469.

Kitty Hart-Moxon, prisoner no. 39934, arrived at Auschwitz on April 2, 1943, in a RSHA transport of 127 women (numbers 39853-39963).

Krystyna Zywulska, prisoner no. 55908, arrived at Auschwitz on August 23, 1943, in a transport of 141 women from Pawiak (numbers 55778-55918).

Neither women appear in the prisoners list of AB museum archive.

And:
Sorry, correction:
Krystyna Zywulska (55908) appears in the list of AB Museum archive under the name Landau (w obozie Żywulska ), Sonia (Krystyna)
The date of arrival noted there is August 25 1943.

Sergey Romanov added that "both she [Hart] and her mother survived and had the tattoos."

Possibly Hart, when attempting to compose a narrative of her experience, relied on the book written by Żywulska (who I believe had writing skills) and re-phrased, sometimes without great change, passages, as a support to her writing or for other reasons and with or without awareness of the implications. Jumping from substantial similarity of some passages in the two books to Hart's not having been in Auschwitz at all, without more, seems a rather long leap.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:49 pm

The Wikipedia material which Nessie quotes appears to be an edit made a week ago: "This is the current revision of this page, as edited by 58.173.13.53 (talk) at 00:52, 7 January 2018 (→‎After the war). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version." I don't think the link tells us anything except that someone involved in, or following, these discussions updated Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =814861972
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:07 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:The Wikipedia material which Nessie quotes appears to be an edit made a week ago: "This is the current revision of this page, as edited by 58.173.13.53 (talk) at 00:52, 7 January 2018 (→‎After the war). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version." I don't think the link tells us anything except that someone involved in, or following, these discussions updated Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =814861972



I saw that, I didn’t mention it because the passage has no footnotes. I couldn’t check the source, something I always do when glancing through Wikipedia. I’ve learned to be wary, I will look at Wikipedia but I always check to see where the information is coming from.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:12 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:The Wikipedia material which Nessie quotes appears to be an edit made a week ago: "This is the current revision of this page, as edited by 58.173.13.53 (talk) at 00:52, 7 January 2018 (→‎After the war). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this version." I don't think the link tells us anything except that someone involved in, or following, these discussions updated Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =814861972



I saw that, I didn’t mention it because the passage has no footnotes. I couldn’t check the source, something I always do when glancing through Wikipedia. I’ve learned to be wary, I will look at Wikipedia but I always check to see where the information is coming from.

The editor is an IP address: 58.173.13.53. I believe in English this can be read as "David Green."
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:20 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:The editor is an IP address: 58.173.13.53. I believe in English this can be read as "David Green."


I thought the same, funny how her page was edited shortly before or after Green started posting this at RODOH.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Nessie » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:42 pm

That is interesting the Wiki entry is recent.

There was no leap being made between the book and if she was at Auschwitz. I was just making the point as to what evidence is critical to her credibility. That her book is similar to "I Came Back" is not critical to her status as Auschwitz survivor. Since it can be proved she was there, all she is guilty of, is being far to literaly-dependent, as in she was literally dependent on Zywulska's work. Maybe her own recollection is one of absolute tedium, repetition and life was boring, so it needed a bit of extra to help make her book more interesting.
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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:47 pm

Nessie wrote:There was no leap being made between the book and if she was at Auschwitz. I was just making the point as to what evidence is critical to her credibility.

I had in mind some in the AHF thread, including one who quoted someone called Charles Traynor. :)

Sid Guttridge, e.g., wrote:
. . . Was her experience real but she plagiarised a more literate peron's text to express what were presumably common experiences for tens of thousands?

Was she a fantasist who was never in Aushchwitz in the first place? . . .
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Nessie » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:08 pm

I am trying to find if CT's RODOH signature "Kitty Hart-Moxon (1998): "Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it." is a genuine quote.

If true, it could also explain why she had to use another's stories about the camp. Deniers love to point out Auschwitz had orchestras, football games and hospitals to try and make out it was just a big prison and nothing nasty went on there. A book about surviving Auschwitz without any great hardship is not going to be a seller and would be of great use to deniers. Not that K H-M would have been likely fully aware of denial back in 1961.
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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Gord » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:08 am

Hi, Nessie! :wave:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:09 am

Nessie wrote:I think that it is telling what even Wikipedia has to say;


I hope you understand that this was most probably added either by David Green or some other participant of these discussions.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:13 am

Nessie wrote:"Literary-dependent", that is a nice way to put it!

You elsewhere: "I do not see plagiarism, but I do accept similarities."

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:14 pm

For the latest on the Axis History Forum on this:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=232875

On a side note, my login actually worked.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:18 pm

>> Sid Guttridge, thinking he's scoring a point, instead exposes his limited knowledge of these matters: "I have never seen the word 'Porajmos' used in an English text before. It is certainly not English in origin and is equally certainly not in general usage, unlike 'Holocaust'."

So, Sid G is unfamiliar even basic stuff on the mass murder of the Roma yet opines (sorry, Nessie LOL) - e.g., this 2008 title: Pharrajimos: The Fate of the Roma During the Holocaust

In his introduction to The Nazi Genocide of the Roma, Weiss-Wendt says that Porrajmos has become the most commonly used term for the mass murder but that it is used uncritically and in a politically correct manner - unfortunately, as Mills wrote in the AHF thread, probably relying on this book, according to Weiss-Wendt the term has sexual connotations.
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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:15 pm

Michael Mills:
That leaves open the question of the source of the fictitious "white powder" story, and why Zywulska included it in her 1946 book. I tend to the speculation that the book was written under the direction of the publishers of "Glos Ludu", the journal of the Central Committee of the Polish Workers' Party for which she was working at the time. It could well be that those publishers directed her to "sex up" her account by including a description of a gassing supposedly witnessed by her personally, and that they fed her the faulty details, which seem to be a confusion of factual details of the gassing methodology used in Crematoria IV and V with details of the one-off gassing carried out by Kramer at Natzweiler, in which a compound of cyanide in a powdered form was indeed used by him.

wm:
The book was published by "Wiedza" - controlled by The Polish Socialist Party, later purged and suppressed by the communists.
The communists didn't care about sexing up, they usually demanded more communism/communist heroism to be included, real but mostly fake. 1946 was too early for that, the "fun" started in 1948.

Sergey Romanov:
some survivors did indeed describe ZB as a powder - probably because they told about it from hearsay. There need not be any connection with the Natzweiler gassing.

We can add an SS man, Hans Pichler, to Sergey's survivors - albeit earlier than 1943 and in the main camp. Pichler told the court in the Höss trial that whilst walking near Krema I he'd once observed "that two SS men from Dept. 3 - I do not know their names - were throwing white powder into the chimney." (F Piper, Jews in Auschwitz, p 99 [APMA-B, Höss Trial, vol. 16, pp 14-15])
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:47 pm

Kitty claims to have arrived in Auschwitz after being held by the Geheimestaats polizei for three days and underwent a mock execution. At 16 with no work skills if the camp was indeed extermination camp she would have probably been circulating in the ionosphere along with her mother a few hours later yet somehow they both survived. She says in her book written in 1981, that she witnessed smoking related deaths of 15 000 Juden a day for the 8 months she was in the Lager. Well this is 3.6 million, which is fine considering the official death toll of the place at the time. However, if over the whole existence of the camp, then 22 million would have perished if her figures are to be believed. Some 10 years later after her publication, the Auschwitz mortality figures were officially revised to 1.1 million, which would amount to about 670 a day. Upon evacuation of the camp her mother begs the commandant Fritz Hartjenstein to allow her daughter to go with her. I must say what a very nice kind SS commandant Fritz was: shame he died of a heart attack before they hanged him.
wiki said: In 1998, Hart-Moxon gave her testimony to USC Shoah Foundation – The Institute for Visual History and Education. Her testimony lives in the Visual History Archive, accessible to teachers and students around the world.

Well seems that Peter Morley the TV guy bought into her story which is the whole issue most likely. This woman had made a lot of money and capital gain out of her concocted story. I won't go into her claims of using human ash for Caustic Potash and fat to make soap, skin for lampshades and Military Jacket linings.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:51 pm

Hullo, NSDAP.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:58 pm

VFX wrote:At 16 with no work skills if the camp was indeed extermination camp she would have probably been circulating in the ionosphere along with her mother a few hours later yet somehow they both survived.


Why? It’s well established that those old enough or big enough were spared. Even without skills. If her mother was capable of working that would have spared her as well.

She says in her book written in 1981, that she witnessed smoking related deaths of 15 000 Juden a day for the 8 months she was in the Lager. Well this is 3.6 million, which is fine considering the official death toll of the place at the time. However, if over the whole existence of the camp, then 22 million would have perished if her figures are to be believed. Some 10 years later after her publication, the Auschwitz mortality figures were officially revised to 1.1 million, which would amount to about 670 a day.


Well, considering I doubt that the SS allowed Jews to count their brethren being funneled through the camp (though there were estimates) I’d say Kitty’s estimate was way off, don’t you agree?

Upon evacuation of the camp her mother begs the commandant Fritz Hartjenstein to allow her daughter to go with her. I must say what a very nice kind SS commandant Fritz was: shame he died of a heart attack before they hanged him.


What a humanitarian.

I discounted the Wiki entry, considering that this information was not sourced. As I mentioned previously I’m wary of unsourced material.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:04 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I discounted the Wiki entry, considering that this information was not sourced. As I mentioned previously I’m wary of unsourced material.

Well still the best free online encyclopedia we have. Much of the information is not sourced and suspect but still something to go on. Better than what was available prior to the internet for sure, not that I really remember those golden days. I find Nessies appraisal of this woman quite interesting as she certainly has plagiarized it would seem the work of a real victim. To me just at the moment until I do more research and the team are doing this now, she does great disservice to the real victims of the Lager (the genuine inmates) and the SS guards. I suggested her real goal was money.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:06 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Hullo, NSDAP.

Hello Jeffrey
Image

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:26 pm

> At 16 with no work skills if the camp was indeed extermination camp she would have probably been circulating in the ionosphere

An obviously false statement. Most deniers are such liars.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:27 pm

VFX wrote:I discounted the Wiki entry, considering that this information was not sourced. As I mentioned previously I’m wary of unsourced material.
Well still the best free online encyclopedia we have. Much of the information is not sourced and suspect but still something to go on. Better than what was available prior to the internet for sure, not that I really remember those golden days.


I understand but I shy away from things I cannot source. I got burned once or twice, plus the more I read the less I need it. I will look at Wiki but then hunt amongst the footnotes to figure out where it is coming from. If I can’t find it or at least find references to it then I do not use it.

It is convenient as a quick source of information.

I find Nessies appraisal of this woman quite interesting as she certainly has plagiarized it would seem the work of a real victim.


Look here:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=232875&sid=1b8ee60e144a1a968fd6200dedc62fb6

I actually post there as bryce2004, don’t ask me why. I was new to the forum format back when I joined and I didn’t stay long. I also realized this morning my login still worked.

As for Kitty Hart, it certainly looks like she plagiarized portions of her book. I don’t know but this book will not make my reading list.

TBH I prefer looking at contemporary documentation and what the Germans said at the time. I look at other witness statements as a way to fill in blanks. The issue I find is that they only saw what they were permitted to see or what they saw by accident. They had no context.

To me just at the moment until I do more research and the team are doing this now, she does great disservice to the real victims of the Lager (the genuine inmates) and the SS guards.


How are guards “victims?”

I suggested her real goal was money.


I can’t say. It’s equally possible that she needed to tell of her experiences as a way to deal.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:47 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:At 16 with no work skills if the camp was indeed extermination camp she would have probably been circulating in the ionosphere along with her mother a few hours later yet somehow they both survived.


Why? It’s well established that those old enough or big enough were spared. Even without skills. If her mother was capable of working that would have spared her as well.

I've never read Hart's book or seen her on TV but "work skills" is a reach - or more correctly a distortion of what is understood of the selection and extermination processes: The Anatomy book has her working in Kanada, IIRC Dwork and Pelt have her at one point on a road detail, the Auschwitz Museum official history quotes from her about work in Kanada (Effektenlager II - Kanada II in Birkeanu BIIg). These were not high skill gigs, they are compatible with the experience of other prisoners, and the job screening/assignment process was as precise as the selection process.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:53 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
VFX wrote:I discounted the Wiki entry, considering that this information was not sourced. As I mentioned previously I’m wary of unsourced material.
Well still the best free online encyclopedia we have. Much of the information is not sourced and suspect but still something to go on. Better than what was available prior to the internet for sure, not that I really remember those golden days.


I understand but I shy away from things I cannot source. I got burned once or twice, plus the more I read the less I need it. I will look at Wiki but then hunt amongst the footnotes to figure out where it is coming from. If I can’t find it or at least find references to it then I do not use it.

It is convenient as a quick source of information.

Maybe to refresh one's memory or to orient one as to where to look . . . or, when it checks out, to link to in a discussion.

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I don’t know but this book will not make my reading list.

Some time ago I summarized the degree to which Hart was a source in the main references I use to understand Auschwitz and concluded that if you subtract her entirely, my understanding doesn't change a whit.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:54 pm

VFX wrote: I suggested her real goal was money.

Evidence?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Some time ago I summarized the degree to which Hart was a source in the main references I use to understand Auschwitz and concluded that if you subtract her entirely, my understanding doesn't change a whit.


Agreed, there are still German documents regarding Auschwitz and the testimony of the German personnel who served there to consider.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:00 pm

Plus post-War investigations and trials......

Or Van Pelt’s report and Pressac’s book.

I now own Van Pelt’s “The Case for Auschwitz” and his book on Auschwitz that he wrote with Dwork. I’m looking forward to digging into them but they will have to wait their turn.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:53 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote: I suggested her real goal was money.

Evidence?

That is why I said the word "suggested".

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:07 pm

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote: I suggested her real goal was money.

Evidence?

That is why I said the word "suggested".

I suggest that Kitty Hart is really Fish's cousin. I suggest that all Holocaust deniers beat old people and take their valuables. I have no evidence, mind you . . .
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:16 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote: I suggest that all Holocaust deniers beat old people and take their valuables. I have no evidence, mind you . . .

Well that suggestion is better than the other suggestion of Juden sucking in copious quantities of Carbon Monoxide and or Hydrogen Cyanide.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:17 pm

Except for that I have evidence.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:19 pm

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
VFX wrote: I suggested her real goal was money.

Evidence?

That is why I said the word "suggested".


This is also why I suggested her need to relate her experiences as a way to deal.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:21 pm

New rule: suggest whatever you'd like.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:21 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Except for that I have evidence.

I think that your alleged evidence is off topic on this thread. But sure glad to hear of it somewhere: better be good though to be convincing... but hey bring it on. :) :D

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:23 pm

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Except for that I have evidence.

I think that your alleged evidence is off topic on this thread. But sure glad to hear of it somewhere: better be good though to be convincing... but hey bring it on. :) :D



I suggest we do this here:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27784

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:New rule: suggest whatever you'd like.

I am glad you suggested that. Well done. :lol:

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:24 pm

VFX wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:New rule: suggest whatever you'd like.

I am glad you suggested that. Well done. :lol:



See my above to thread better suited to this topic.

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Re: Is Kitty Hart a plagiarist?

Postby VFX » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:25 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I suggest we do this here:

Well Jeff it is pretty much established that Moxon is a plagiarist and a liar.


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