Best stand-alone evidence?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:01 pm

You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:25 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Franke-Gricksch report on Auschwitz


I was always bothered by this report.
It feels "too good to be true."

1) It describes gassing in Auschwitz
2) It directly says the "re-settlement program" is actually an extermination program
3) It mentions this is an order from Hitler himself

In other words it's the best stand-alone evidence there is.
Yet Holocaust Controversies does not even have an article on it. It is only mentioned here as being quoted by Pressac.

Now I've read what deniers have to say about this report. They claim it's a forgery and they say not even anti-deniers bring it up, which might be true, because I don't see it discussed often.
They also claim the document has some errors in German, but I guess this is meaningless.

Plus, it seems that this report is an extract out of a diary and in 2010, allegedly, the full section of the diary from which it was extracted was revealed. Here it is.

The report itself does not appear here, although it is not clear to me if this diary section truly should include the report in it. These two pieces of text may be not related to each other.

What is your opinion on that?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:39 am

IIRC we have only the English language translation, the original German document having been lost.

as you noted, FG report is on Hans' Auschwitz evidence list at HC - without being "flagged"

Nick Terry, who has studied Auschwitz, noted it here as a "prominent official document"

Fleming discusses the FG report here

Sydnor discusses the FG report here

Roberto Muehlenkamp weighs in about the FG report, inter aiia, on AHF

IIRC Ivring's website had a discussion of the two documents; someone else better versed in Auschwitz archival matters than I (Nick Terry or Hans or Sergey Romanov, for example) might turn up here to discuss authenticity issues
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:49 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:IIRC we have only the English language translation, the original German document having been lost.


Quoting Dr. Terry from this link he says "such as the 2nd Franke-Gricksch report".

So there are indeed two F-G reports?
Because what deniers say that the "long" report is the real report, and the "short" report, which includes references to gassing, and supposed to be an extract out of the "long" report, is fake.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:02 am

I am referring to the so-called Lipman version, and goofed citing Nick's comment, which referred to the 2nd document - the Lipman typescript is in German with an English header. It's the original German version that we don't have, only Lipman's typescript. I should have had my morning tea before typing and checked notes/links closer - and typed "we have only a typescript of the German document." Sorry!
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:29 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I am referring to the so-called Lipman version, and goofed citing Nick's comment, which referred to the 2nd document - the Lipman typescript is in German with an English header. It's the original German version that we don't have, only Lipman's typescript. I should have had my morning tea before typing and checked notes/links closer - and typed "we have only a typescript of the German document." Sorry!


Uhmm.. this is very confusing, epsecially because I have no idea who Lipman is. lol.

I found a post by BroI in CODOH where he posted translation of the "long" F-G report.

But it seems even the long report admits the extermination of Jews, as Broi himself emphasized in the text :

one realise the alternative with which we are faced: either this generation of ours succeeds in clearing up the Jewish problem completely and to its last consequences or, if their liquidation is not completely achieved, the Jewish people will rise again after this wave of oppression. Some individual cases may appear hard or even brutal but seeing these people in large masses and knowing how dangerous their passive attitude is to the life of the nations, one comes to the conclusion that this problem has to be cleared up completely to free the world once and for all of this pestilence.


Now I am even more confused.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:47 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:Uhmm.. this is very confusing, epsecially because I have no idea who Lipman is. lol.

Lipman was the typist of the FG report cited by Pressac. His signature is on the typescript. Pressac, p 238

Oozy_Substance wrote:I found a post by BroI in CODOH . . . Now I am even more confused.

IIRC that passage is from the 2nd report, the one referenced by Nick Terry and shown here.

I recall reading something from Sergey Romanov on the authenticity of the FG report but my bookmark to this turns up dead.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:30 am

Just to put things in line. The 1st F-G report is the "short" one (the one that speaks of gassing) and the 2nd F-G report is the "long" one, right?

Now I am not really sure what is the relations between these two reports.
If the 1st/short one is supposed to be a paragraph within the 2nd/long one, why isn't it there? Was it omitted? Or maybe the two documents are not related to begin with?

Deniers may say that the 1st/short report not being included in the 2nd/long report is a proof of it being a fabrication.

I therefore won't include the F-G report in my "evidence knapsack" for deniers until I sort this out.

What do you think?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:59 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:Just to put things in line. The 1st F-G report is the "short" one (the one that speaks of gassing) and the 2nd F-G report is the "long" one, right?

That is my understanding.

Oozy_Substance wrote:Now I am not really sure what is the relations between these two reports.
If the 1st/short one is supposed to be a paragraph within the 2nd/long one, why isn't it there? Was it omitted? Or maybe the two documents are not related to begin with?

I don't know the relationship between the two documents. I believe deniers simply say that the "short" document is a forgery.

Oozy_Substance wrote:I therefore won't include the F-G report in my "evidence knapsack" for deniers until I sort this out.

What do you think?

Yeah, hang on . . . I thought I had something evaluating Renk's article but I can't find that, either.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:35 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Oozy_Substance wrote:Just to put things in line. The 1st F-G report is the "short" one (the one that speaks of gassing) and the 2nd F-G report is the "long" one, right?

That is my understanding.

Oozy_Substance wrote:Now I am not really sure what is the relations between these two reports.
If the 1st/short one is supposed to be a paragraph within the 2nd/long one, why isn't it there? Was it omitted? Or maybe the two documents are not related to begin with?

I don't know the relationship between the two documents. I believe deniers simply say that the "short" document is a forgery.

Oozy_Substance wrote:I therefore won't include the F-G report in my "evidence knapsack" for deniers until I sort this out.

What do you think?

Yeah, hang on . . . I thought I had something evaluating Renk's article but I can't find that, either.


I searched for "Franke-Gricksch" and "Sergey Romanov" on google and found the following :

http://sergeyromanovwatch.blogspot.com/2013/?m=0

Sergery Romanov Watch ? lol !!

Who did it?

Anyway the format is barely readable ...

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby BRoI » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:15 pm

"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Denying-History » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:08 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Oozy_Substance wrote:Just to put things in line. The 1st F-G report is the "short" one (the one that speaks of gassing) and the 2nd F-G report is the "long" one, right?

That is my understanding.

Oozy_Substance wrote:Now I am not really sure what is the relations between these two reports.
If the 1st/short one is supposed to be a paragraph within the 2nd/long one, why isn't it there? Was it omitted? Or maybe the two documents are not related to begin with?

I don't know the relationship between the two documents. I believe deniers simply say that the "short" document is a forgery.

Oozy_Substance wrote:I therefore won't include the F-G report in my "evidence knapsack" for deniers until I sort this out.

What do you think?

Yeah, hang on . . . I thought I had something evaluating Renk's article but I can't find that, either.


I searched for "Franke-Gricksch" and "Sergey Romanov" on google and found the following :

http://sergeyromanovwatch.blogspot.com/2013/?m=0

Sergery Romanov Watch ? lol !!

Who did it?

Anyway the format is barely readable ...


I believe it was "Blogbuster" hard to tell what ones he ran. Anyway if you are wondering where the Drama started see Sergeys writings on Heart:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/p/miscellaneous.html
« Yes, that may surprise some people, including my colleagues. But have no illusions. I never compelled anybody to work for me, just as we didn't compel the German people. They themselves gave us the job to do. Why did you work with me? Now, you'll have your little throat cut...but the earth will shake when we leave the scene... »
- Joseph Goebbels

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:59 pm

Yes, that is one from Blogbuster (Carmelo Lisciotto) when he was stalking non deniers.

BRoI’s link is to the same AHF thread I linked to above for Roberto Muehlenkamp’s comments - I agree that the thread is worth reading all the way through - which I did again today and saw recent posts from Sergey Romanov and BRoI of which I was unaware. Roberto replied to Mills, as did Hans, eons before the more recent posts. That said, I still cannot find comments I am sure I’ve read somewhere from Sergey Romanov ... those at the end of the thread are not the ones I think I’ve read but are likely similar
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:21 pm

Oozy, I checked around on Franke-Gricksch - no one seems to have taken Renk’s revisionist article seriously enough to do a rebuttal; probably the best material countering the revisionist arguments you cite will be the posts from Roberto, Hans and Sergey in the AHF thread which BRoI and I linked to.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Hans » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:39 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Franke-Gricksch report on Auschwitz


I was always bothered by this report.
It feels "too good to be true."

1) It describes gassing in Auschwitz
2) It directly says the "re-settlement program" is actually an extermination program
3) It mentions this is an order from Hitler himself

In other words it's the best stand-alone evidence there is.
Yet Holocaust Controversies does not even have an article on it. It is only mentioned here as being quoted by Pressac.

Now I've read what deniers have to say about this report. They claim it's a forgery and they say not even anti-deniers bring it up, which might be true, because I don't see it discussed often.
They also claim the document has some errors in German, but I guess this is meaningless.

Plus, it seems that this report is an extract out of a diary and in 2010, allegedly, the full section of the diary from which it was extracted was revealed. Here it is.

The report itself does not appear here, although it is not clear to me if this diary section truly should include the report in it. These two pieces of text may be not related to each other.

What is your opinion on that?


The document typed by Lipman is probably a (bit sloppy) copy of the authentic report of Franke-Gricksch on Auschwitz (for reasons discussed in the AHF thread), but the lack of the original poses a challenge to establish this with certainty and beyond any reasonable doubt. A least that's why I personally did not feature it yet at the HC blog as "smoking gun". If the original comes to light one day, that would make it easier...

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:58 am

It's easy to pack it into one tweet.

There were between 5 and 6 million Jewish victims: https://www.degruyter.com/view/product/220100
Gas chambers are documented: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ts-on.html
So is the extermination intent: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... .html#docs

Voila, you've proven the Holocaust twitter-style.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:02 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Franke-Gricksch report on Auschwitz


I was always bothered by this report.
It feels "too good to be true."

1) It describes gassing in Auschwitz
2) It directly says the "re-settlement program" is actually an extermination program
3) It mentions this is an order from Hitler himself

In other words it's the best stand-alone evidence there is.
Yet Holocaust Controversies does not even have an article on it. It is only mentioned here as being quoted by Pressac.

Now I've read what deniers have to say about this report. They claim it's a forgery and they say not even anti-deniers bring it up, which might be true, because I don't see it discussed often.
They also claim the document has some errors in German, but I guess this is meaningless.

Plus, it seems that this report is an extract out of a diary and in 2010, allegedly, the full section of the diary from which it was extracted was revealed. Here it is.

The report itself does not appear here, although it is not clear to me if this diary section truly should include the report in it. These two pieces of text may be not related to each other.

What is your opinion on that?

As someone who thinks the shorter F-G report is probably genuine, it is impossible to prove this beyond the reasonable doubt, so it's useless as far as the deniers are concerned.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby BRoI » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:39 am

Just inform the deniers that there's nothing suspicious about US prosecutors having lost the "short F-G report". US prosecutors/war crimes investigators lost very many important proofs of Nazi war crimes:

1. Himmler's 14th or 18th April 1945 order to Dachau/Flossenbuerg
2. Arthur Nebe's film footage of the Mogilev gassing
3. Eleonore Hodys's 1944 statement mentioning Auschwitz gassings

Will add others when I remember them

EDIT:

Image
The Evening Leader (Corning, NY), October 7, 1948


Another enormously important document lost by the Americans:

Konrad Morgen's report on the Erntefest massacre which included the wording of Himmler's order for it. Extracts from Morgen's report were read to Kaltenbrunner during his 12 October 1945 interrogation at Nuremberg.

See NC&A Supplement B, p.1309f
* Document referred to did not form part of prosecution case as finally prepared and hence is not published in this series.


Also see: H. Pauer-Studer, J. Velleman, Konrad Morgen, The Conscience of a Nazi Judge, Springer digital edition, 2015:
The quoted excerpt from Morgen's report is both chilling and mystifying. Morgen himself was probably quoting a detailed description of the executions from eyewitnesses, since he had not witnessed the massacre first-hand. The comment "It was the old, tried system" would then have been Morgen's commentary on the quoted material. But why would Morgen have used that phrase? Does it indicate that he was unaware of the new system that had been tried and proved in Aktion Reinhard? There is no way of knowing, because his report has not survived.
Last edited by BRoI on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:21 am

I don't know if it's because that I am not a native English speaker, but I never seem to get BroI's tone.. if he is being cynical or straight serious.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:30 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:I don't know if it's because that I am not a native English speaker, but I never seem to get BroI's tone.. if he is being cynical or straight serious.



He’s trying to score points, that’s all. That seems to be his only purpose here.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:30 pm

Thanks Hans and Sergey. I am guessing that whatever I read a few years back (written by Sergey) was so convincing to me that I remembered Franke-Gricksche I as virtually unassailable (and Renk's article to have been dealt with).

Oozy: in this case, sarcasm would be the operative concept. (Sorry for leading you on a wild goose chase.)
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:34 pm

Does anyone have a copy of the original German and translation of Erhard Wetzel’s “Stellungnahme und Gedanken zum Generalplan Ost des Reichsführers SS (Opinion and thoughts on the master plan for the East of the Reichsführer SS")? It’s referred to in several places, I came back to it while re-reading Browning’s “Origins.”

The date I have for it is April 27th, 1942.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:35 pm

I came across references to it but no text in a lot of different sources. A Polish author published it in 1962.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:17 pm

This is why I think it’s important:

Browning writes:

“It was perfectly clear to Wetzel, however, that with the “Final Solution” the Jews were already being “liquidated”
and therefore the resettlement of of the Jews referred to in the Plan was “superfluous.” It was also clear that the Germans could not liquidate either the Poles or the Russians as they could the Jews.”

Browning, page 241
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:45 pm

http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/heftarchiv/1958_3.pdf pp 297-324 German only; discussed in HC White Paper, p 133
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:05 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/heftarchiv/1958_3.pdf pp 297-324 German only; discussed in HC White Paper, p 133


Thanks, I’ve seen it quoted and referred to any other places, Mazowar’s “Hitler’s Empire” comes to mind. Reading Browning again reminded me of it.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:that one I can't dredge up . . . Jeff_36! Help!

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... -bene.html

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:23 am

APMA-B Garrison Trial, Vol 38, p 117, radiogram of 2 October 1942 from Liebehenschel (office DI of WVHA) with approval for "a trip by a 5-t. truck with trailer to Dessau for the purpose of delivering material for resettlement of Jews." [Photo 32 in Pressac; in F Piper, Jews in Aushcwitz, pp 318-319]

(Well, not quite stand-alone, you need to know that Dessau was a producer of Zyklon B and supplied the chemical to Auschwitz.)
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:56 am

Oozy, I have Alfred Rosenberg’s speech to a group of reporters in November 18th, 1941:

In the east some six million Jews still live and this question can only be solved in a biological eradication of the entire Jewry of Europe.


This is from Browning, Page 404. Looking to grab the source, I also remember seeing in Mazowar’s “Hitler’s Empire” and in a few other places. I don’t have the original but maybe someone else does.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby nickterry » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:34 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Does anyone have a copy of the original German and translation of Erhard Wetzel’s “Stellungnahme und Gedanken zum Generalplan Ost des Reichsführers SS (Opinion and thoughts on the master plan for the East of the Reichsführer SS")? It’s referred to in several places, I came back to it while re-reading Browning’s “Origins.”

The date I have for it is April 27th, 1942.


StatMech posted a link to a published transcription in VfZ. There's no full translation into English as far as I am aware.

While it's not online, the 'Stellungnahme' can also be found in the trial records of Josef Buhler, Hans Frank's deputy, in Poland - the file reference would be AIPN NTN 252, i.e. the archive of the Institute of National Memory in Poland. This is a photocopy and marked as Nuremberg document NG-2325. It's likely to have been used in the RuSHA trial, one of the 12 successor Nuremberg trials.

I can't say I've seen any citations to the archival filing of the original document - but it should have one, probably in the RKFDV records. Nearly everyone cites it from Heiber or a further reproduction in a collection edited by Czeslaw Madajczyk, Vom Generalplan Ost.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:43 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:APMA-B Garrison Trial, Vol 38, p 117, radiogram of 2 October 1942 from Liebehenschel (office DI of WVHA) with approval for "a trip by a 5-t. truck with trailer to Dessau for the purpose of delivering material for resettlement of Jews." [Photo 32 in Pressac; in F Piper, Jews in Aushcwitz, pp 318-319]

(Well, not quite stand-alone, you need to know that Dessau was a producer of Zyklon B and supplied the chemical to Auschwitz.)

This will be countered as being for delousing.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:55 pm

It has been IIRC (Mattogno?) but "resettlement of Jews" is such an odd phrase to use for delousing, by contrast earlier truck trips were noted as being for fighting the (typhus) epidemic and disinfecting the camp - summer 1942.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:02 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:It has been IIRC (Mattogno?) but "resettlement of Jews" is such an odd phrase to use for delousing, by contrast earlier truck trips were noted as being for fighting the (typhus) epidemic and disinfecting the camp - summer 1942.

IMHO no more than Entwesungsanlage für Sonderbehandlung as a ref to the Central Sauna. Which we do not see as a criminal trace.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:35 pm

I went back through the various docs on the truck to Dessau doc, plus what I have on the July-September 1942 typhus epidemic - and, yeah, I think the doc can be interpreted either way and the case for its being about the gas chambers relies on a web of other evidence (e.g., what does "resettlement of Jews" refer to), so, true, far from a slam dunk. Sorry for a "false positive," Oozy.
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:07 pm

The Dessau SB doc is also not a slam-dunk since without Mulka's testimony it could be interpreted to refer to SB in an expanded sense (which would include delousing).

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:47 pm

Oozy:
German:
http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/documents/1253-letter-to-heinrich-himmler?q=evidence:no*#p.1

Translation:
http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/documents/116-letter-to-heinrich-himmler?q=evidence:no*#p.1

This is easier to read for translation purposes:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/memoranda-to-himmler

It details that more men were detailed to Globocnik to carry out his “special task.”

Brack also requests that Himmler consider sterilizing 2-3 million Jews so they can be kept alive for labor purposes.

Key phrases

On this occasion Brigadeführer Globocnik pressed the view that the whole action against the Jews should be carried out as quickly as it is in any way possible, so that we will not some day be stuck in the middle should any kind of difficulty make it necessary to stop the action. you yourself, Mr. Reichsführer, expressed the view to me at an earlier time that one must work as fast as possible, if only for reasons of concealment.


According to my impression there are at least 2-3 million men and women well fit for work among the approx. 10 million European Jews. In consideration of the exceptional difficulties posed for us by the question of labor, I am of the opinion that these 2-3 million should in any case be taken out and kept alive. Of course this can only be done if they are in the same time rendered incapable of reproduction.


The Germans never bothered to conceal deportation because they couldn’t, it was too public. The concealment deals with the killing action, not the deportation action.

Why “kept alive?” Why not held back or not deported?


It goes without saying that sterilized people can’t reproduce, therefore the end result is genocide.
Last edited by Jeffk 1970 on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:53 pm

BTW, here is Himmler’s reply:

German:
http://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/documents/1257-letter-to-viktor-brack?q=heinrich+himmler#p.1

Translation:
Letter from Reichsführer-SS Himmler to SS-Oberführer Brack, August 11, 1942 (Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 722):

Dear Brack,

It is only today that I have the opportunity of acknowledging the receipt of your letter of June 23. I am positively interested in seeing the sterilization by X-rays tried out at least once in one camp in a series of experiments.


See the link above to the JVL. We do know that experiments were carried out but nothing like what Brack envisaged.
When my son had his barmitzvah, and his wedding, there was no family whatsoever -that’s the way the second and third generation feel the Holocaust, they miss their family. My son hasn’t experienced a family life –having uncles, aunts, grandmothers, grandfathers. There is just that hole.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:07 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Oozy, I have Alfred Rosenberg’s speech to a group of reporters in November 18th, 1941:

In the east some six million Jews still live and this question can only be solved in a biological eradication of the entire Jewry of Europe.


This is from Browning, Page 404. Looking to grab the source, I also remember seeing in Mazowar’s “Hitler’s Empire” and in a few other places. I don’t have the original but maybe someone else does.


This should not be quoted outside of the immediate context:

Some six million Jews still live in the East, and this question can only be solved by a biological extermination of the whole of Jewry in Europe. The Jewish Question will only be solved for Germany when the last Jew has left German territory, and for Europe when not a single Jew stands on the European continent as far as the Urals... And to this end it is necessary to force them beyond the Urals or otherwise bring about their eradication.
So for him this bio-eradication from Europe may not have necessarily meant wholesale murder.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby nickterry » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:35 pm

Not at all 'stand-alone' and still incomplete, we've updated the HC listings of open-access sources and literature.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... s-and.html

This now includes a breakdown of digitised record groups at the Yad Vashem document archive (over 20,000 files have been uploaded, from what I can work out) as well as links to other important digitised collections, e.g. the records of the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial, the Lodz ghetto administration and Judenrat records, contemporary publications, newspapers, source editions, memoirs, testimonies and oral history collections, online exhibitions of selected sources, digitised journals, dissertations, and ebooks.

All material is open-access and free; there is enough in English to keep anyone busy for ages.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:42 pm

Thank you so much, damn, I have to get busy . . .
You know, my dear Colonel General, I don't really believe that the Russians will attack at all. It's all an enormous bluff. - Heinrich Himmler to Heinz Guderian, December 1944


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