Best stand-alone evidence?

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Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:53 am

Most Holocaust-Denial our days happen online (Youtube, Twitter, etc) and most online debates are fast and instant.
A denier, or a person who is slightly into denial, will ask you to show him CLEAR evidence that the Holocaust happened RIGHT NOW.
Sending a link to Holocaust Controversies blog or other similar blogs won't do the job because it's a wall of text to read. On the internet, people want an INSTANT stand-alone evidence and they want it RIGHT NOW. They want a picture or a short piece of text that will prove the Holocaust happened and they want you to deliver it on the spot.

I wonder to myself what "good" stand-alone evidence there are, and by saying "good" I mean that it's difficult to question them or to call them fake. I know deniers will question anything by overall, but still.

Here are some I have in mind :

1) Korherr Report. Where over 2 million Jews are allegedly evacuated to Russian East via camps. That's a good stand-alone piece of evidence but deniers can play around with it, saying "evacuation" actually means what it is and 2 million Jews indeed found themselves in the USSR and vanished there into the void.

2) Hofle Telegram, that goes hand-in-hand with the Korherr Report.

3) The Meldung 51 document, which tells of massacare of partisans and Jews. The document speficially says 363,211 Jews were massacared within 4 months in the area of Biyalistok. I think this is a good stand-alone evidence because it speficially says "Juden Exekutiert" and deniers cannot play with the meaning of the words here.

4) The 97,000 and 3 vans document. The document which tells how 97,000 were processed using 3 vans, and later on saying the load is panicking and pushing against the door - leaving no question the load here is a living creature. I know that in the HC blog there is an article linking this document to Chelmno.

5) Jager Report.

6) Posen Speeches by Himmler.

7) Graphic pictures from events like the Lviv Pogrom or the Liepaja Massacare.

Do you have any other pieces of evidence coming to mind?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:17 am

discussed here
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:28 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:discussed here


Jeff_36 provided there a pretty lengthy list and I am not aware to most of its items

"- German foreign office docs from the Netherlands indicating that "The Jews have figured us out and know what is behind the deportation to the east""

Can you tell me what is it about?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:51 am

that one I can't dredge up . . . Jeff_36! Help!
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby nickterry » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:00 am

It's one of the documents on the Yad Vashem Holocaust Resource Center, section on deportations - a report from the Foreign Office representative (there are many translated in the YV HRC from this official) in the Netherlands from 1942.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:18 am

Danke - I assume this one (which I'd forgotten about), from Bene in the German Foreign Office, report of August 1942 . . . http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micro ... 205211.pdf (good to read along with Bene's November note: http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micro ... 205212.pdf in which Bene discusses the destination - Auschwitz; perceived quieting of suspicions and tensions among the Dutch Jews; the Germans' timetable for completing the deportations from the Netherlands and numbers involved; and exemptions)
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:54 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Danke - I assume this one (which I'd forgotten about), from Bene in the German Foreign Office, report of August 1942 . . . http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micro ... 205211.pdf (good to read along with Bene's November note: http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micro ... 205212.pdf in which Bene discusses the destination - Auschwitz; perceived quieting of suspicions and tensions among the Dutch Jews; the Germans' timetable for completing the deportations from the Netherlands and numbers involved; and exemptions)


Are the original documents available online anywhere?
You know deniers, if you give them a copy made by Yad vaShem they will say Yad vaShem can write up anything they want, and will discredit it as fake.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:12 pm

The online versions contain, at the end, a citation to where the original document is held in the YV archives. You could search here http://collections1.yadvashem.org/searc ... NG&rsvr=8# to see if the archival copies have been digitized. I don't know.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby nickterry » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:14 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Danke - I assume this one (which I'd forgotten about), from Bene in the German Foreign Office, report of August 1942 . . . http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micro ... 205211.pdf (good to read along with Bene's November note: http://www.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micro ... 205212.pdf in which Bene discusses the destination - Auschwitz; perceived quieting of suspicions and tensions among the Dutch Jews; the Germans' timetable for completing the deportations from the Netherlands and numbers involved; and exemptions)


Are the original documents available online anywhere?
You know deniers, if you give them a copy made by Yad vaShem they will say Yad vaShem can write up anything they want, and will discredit it as fake.


The documents come from the German Foreign Office archive, which is not digitised (and no denier can reasonably expect everything to be digitised). They are however also in NG-2631 as a bundle, and a copy of this is online at YVA P.13/125 - you can retrace the link by googling NG-2631 Yad Vashem

http://collections1.yadvashem.org/noteb ... site=sapir

without going through the file, which would be your job since you're the one interested in this issue, I cannot say whether the copies of NG-2631 in this file are complete, or are translations, or transcriptions, or photocopies.

Since these are documents used in the successor Nuremberg trials - they may have been used in the so-called Ministries Trial that prosecuted a number of Foreign Office senior civil servants - then deniers might well start alleging forgery, but the originals will be in the Politisches Archiv des Auswaertigen Amtes: http://www.archiv.diplo.de/

Deniers would also likely try to minimise the significance of the document - which doesn't indicate firm knowledge of Auschwitz circulating among Jews in the Netherlands at this time nor is there independent corroboration of such knowledge for the summer/autumn of 1942 - although some like to play the 'it doesn't mean anything/but it's a forgery anyway' card to have their cake and eat it.

Still: it's important to understand that just because a document was used at Nuremberg or is copied at Yad Vashem doesn't mean what many deniers think it means:

Principle 1: the documents used at Nuremberg were copied or kept by the powers that captured them; the Americans microfilmed the *collections* from which the trial documents were taken and kept copies at NARA, before restituting the paper files to West Germany (to the Bundesarchiv, Bundesarchiv-Militaerarchiv and PA AA); the Soviets kept the paper copies of the *collections* in Moscow or Podolsk (in GARF, RGVA and TsAMO Podolsk).

Principle 2: Yad Vashem, like other archives such as the Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte or USHMM as well as the West German war crimes investigation office (ZStL, Bundesarchiv Ludwigsburg), ordered copies of the Nuremberg trial documents and trials, as well as NARA microfilms, and other archival collections. East Bloc countries also ordered copies of NARA microfilms and were often sent photocopies for trial purposes. YV and USHMM have copies from virtually every relevant archive. So this means that many important documents are actually copied in six or more locations. Just because a source is referenced to Yad Vashem or can be found on the Yad Vashem digital archive doesn't mean that Yad Vashem originated the document.

A final point: while deniers online revert to Carlos Porter-level paranoia about forgeries, denier gurus like Mattogno very rarely allege that a document is forged. Mattogno has not cited NG-2631 as far as I know, but he would understand that it originated from the Foreign Office records and would not resort to a kneejerk forgery accusation - remember that Mattogno does NOT claim the Wannsee Protocol is a forgery.

So an effective tactic in a more elevated platform than Twitter (eg YouTube comments threads or forums) is to inflict cognitive dissonance by pointing out that the supposedly most respected deniers don't think such-and-such a document is actually a forgery, and maybe to jeer at deniers for disagreeing with each other, so why take them seriously?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby nickterry » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:29 pm

YV's documents archive has detailed descriptions and googles well; there are copies of the file descriptions on the EHRI archives index portal as well. So googling for specific Nuremberg documents or sources can often find copies on YV. For example, NO-511, aka Meldung 51, is in YVA O.51/124, as I found after googling NO-511 Yad Vashem
http://collections1.yadvashem.org/noteb ... site=sapir

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:32 pm

yeah, even the report mentioning Auschwitz doesn't say what happened at Auschwitz: we need other evidence to know that - the "silver bullet / killer doc" standard, which Monstrous tried and which the impatient nitwits on Twitter or YouTube demand, falls apart as soon as you try using it; nobody seriously trying to understand what happened in the past (Holocaust or whatever) would try to figure it out using such a method
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:41 pm

I searched the link which Nick gave and found typescript versions of English translations of both documents I linked to - on pp 28-30; following a series of English translations there are typed German documents which appear to be from 1943.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby nickterry » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:42 pm

Hans's index of Auschwitz evidence is a good reminder of that, and also a useful one-stop shop or one-link response.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:46 pm

This one:
Translation:
https://www.historiography-project.com/nca/nca06/3428-PS.php

Original German:

http://www.ns-archiv.de/imt/ps3401-ps3600/3428-ps.php

It specifically points to the liquidation of the elderly and children. It also specifically forbids any unauthorized transfers of foreign Jews into Lohse’s territory under a very specific death sentence.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:53 pm

A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:55 pm

A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:59 pm

I agree single documents won’t magically convert the hard core. Deniers screech about “forgeries” or weird word meanings (I had an endless debate about the word “liquidate” and how it related to human beings) so to them it doesn’t really matter.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:19 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:This one:
Translation:
https://www.historiography-project.com/nca/nca06/3428-PS.php

Original German:

http://www.ns-archiv.de/imt/ps3401-ps3600/3428-ps.php

It specifically points to the liquidation of the elderly and children. It also specifically forbids any unauthorized transfers of foreign Jews into Lohse’s territory under a very specific death sentence.


Is there a name for this document? I wonder how deniers chew on this one.

Edit : Oh. I see. 3428-PS.

And using google I found a photo of the original in YV.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:48 am

Quoting Jeff_36's list from the other thread again ...

Can you tell what are these items referring to ?

- Lwow Garrison report
- Ostrow Garrison report

Google is not very helpful.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:33 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:- Lwow Garrison report

Search this link for "Lwow," where it says "Oberfeldkommandant of the Lwow ghetto . . ." (document cited in fn's 41 and 42)

Oozy_Substance wrote:- Ostrow Garrison report

Search this link for "Ostrow," where it says "Wehrmacht commander of Ostrow . . ." (document cited in fn 51 and shown here in entry for 24 October 1942)
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:05 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Oozy_Substance wrote:- Lwow Garrison report

Search this link for "Lwow," where it says "Oberfeldkommandant of the Lwow ghetto . . ." (document cited in fn's 41 and 42)

Oozy_Substance wrote:- Ostrow Garrison report

Search this link for "Ostrow," where it says "Wehrmacht commander of Ostrow . . ." (document cited in fn 51 and shown here in entry for 24 October 1942)


The comment from the commander of Ostrow about Treblinka is interesting.
I wonder if Monstrous had a thing to say about it ?

Edit : Ah. I found an article by some denier trying to refute this diary entry.

There is one thing he wrote here that caught my eye :

German

Auf Anordnung OKW solen kgf. sowjetruss. Offiziere, die bei

ihrer Vernehmung als Boschewistengegner besondere hervorge

treten sind, eines Sonderlager sugeuehrt werden.

erlaesst eine Verfg. ueber Ersatz der Juedischen Arbeitskraefte Anlage



English

In order [that] High Command W. consoles kgf. Soviet Russia. Officers, upon
being questioned as [they are] special Bolshevik opponents, have
brought it to attention, [that] a special camp will be led below.

O.Q./Qu.2 adopt a Constitutional Court, about [concerning] the Jewish workers
compensation system (s. location/plant 256)


But the second paragraph is even more amazing. The Jewish workers are being paid?
I was always told this was a "slave labor" camp. Looks like that was wrong. Not only
that, but the Jewish workers are getting their own court or council? Self-governing?
That definitely doesn't fit the "death camp" scenario either.


Is it really the case here?

As for the Treblinka's line, by short he claims it refers to a cemetary to bury dead workers in a labour camp.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:31 am

OK = Ortskommandant, or local high commandant (http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... no-to.html) (using the search function at Holocaust Controversies will bring up a lot of this kind of material - http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... h?q=ostrow).

Every time the OK Ostrow note came up (Jeff_36, NathanC, Lemmy Caution, Denying History and I raised it altogether a number of times), Monstrous dodged each and every mention, once complaining that he asked for the best evidence in general, not about Treblinka (!) and other times complaining about our giving too many documents and sources, e.g., "Still no attempt to list the most important items of evidence as asked. Instead, the Believers prefer to attempt stampede their opponents with a large herd of claimed evidence items. . . . All the individual evidence items are very weak and are easily dispatched if separated from the herd. The Believers know this, which is why they attempt the herd stampede tactic, hoping that a massed assault will be a successful bluff and conceal their weakness." Which didn't mean that Monstrous tried "dispatching" any of the evidence with which we confronted him. (You can search the forum for "Ostrow" to see examples.)
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:43 am

Oozy_Substance wrote:As for the Treblinka's line, by short he claims it refers to a cemetary to bury dead workers in a labour camp.

This is dealt with at length in the HC article I just linked you to.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:51 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Oozy_Substance wrote:As for the Treblinka's line, by short he claims it refers to a cemetary to bury dead workers in a labour camp.

This is dealt with at length in the HC article I just linked you to.


Thanks, I am reading it now.
Regarding the anonymous denier's article I linked to above, I think he is mistaking Ostrow to being Treblinka. What's reported in this diary is concerning Ostrow, not Treblinka. Therefore his explanation of a standard cemetary near Treblinka does not hold water, as Ostrow is pretty remote from Treblinka.
Yet the "Jews being paid" part still seems strange to me. Is there an explanation to this?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Balsamo » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:05 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Oozy_Substance wrote:- Lwow Garrison report

Search this link for "Lwow," where it says "Oberfeldkommandant of the Lwow ghetto . . ." (document cited in fn's 41 and 42)

Oozy_Substance wrote:- Ostrow Garrison report

Search this link for "Ostrow," where it says "Wehrmacht commander of Ostrow . . ." (document cited in fn 51 and shown here in entry for 24 October 1942)


The comment from the commander of Ostrow about Treblinka is interesting.
I wonder if Monstrous had a thing to say about it ?

Edit : Ah. I found an article by some denier trying to refute this diary entry.

There is one thing he wrote here that caught my eye :

German

Auf Anordnung OKW solen kgf. sowjetruss. Offiziere, die bei

ihrer Vernehmung als Boschewistengegner besondere hervorge

treten sind, eines Sonderlager sugeuehrt werden.

erlaesst eine Verfg. ueber Ersatz der Juedischen Arbeitskraefte Anlage



English

In order [that] High Command W. consoles kgf. Soviet Russia. Officers, upon
being questioned as [they are] special Bolshevik opponents, have
brought it to attention, [that] a special camp will be led below.

O.Q./Qu.2 adopt a Constitutional Court, about [concerning] the Jewish workers
compensation system (s. location/plant 256)


But the second paragraph is even more amazing. The Jewish workers are being paid?
I was always told this was a "slave labor" camp. Looks like that was wrong. Not only
that, but the Jewish workers are getting their own court or council? Self-governing?
That definitely doesn't fit the "death camp" scenario either.


Is it really the case here?

As for the Treblinka's line, by short he claims it refers to a cemetary to bury dead workers in a labour camp.



Who the hell made this translation????
Is this a joke?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:22 pm

It doesn’t seem to match the German, which isn’t even about Treblinka.
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:22 pm

Yeah this is one weird article. Sorry to bring it up. lol.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Balsamo » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:39 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:It doesn’t seem to match the German, which isn’t even about Treblinka.


Worse than that, not only is the German text full of typos, but the translator was under LSD.
The text only says that those among the captured soviet officers who have been during their interrogation identified as opponent to Bolshevism, should be sent to a special camp.

Auf Anordung does not mean In order to, but "On an order" or "Unpon request"
There is no trace of a verb "to console".

sugeuehrt does not exist at all and can only stands as "zugeführt".

The one Denier who wrote that text is quite a challenger to the "most stupid" championship.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:25 pm

And most dishonest scumbag too
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:29 pm

Balsamo wrote:Auf Anordung does not mean In order to, but "On an order" or "Unpon request"
There is no trace of a verb "to console".

sugeuehrt does not exist at all and can only stands as "zugeführt".

"Zugeführt" is the word on the original document. Indeed.

How's this?
Injured cared for in September in the region/district of the O.F.K. 365:
Supporting/caring commando Brody 44 225 injured
" Lemberg 29 896 "
" Tarnopol 4 185 "

By order of OKW, Soviet officer POWs who during interrogation stood out as strong opponents to Bolsheviks, are to be admitted to a Sonderlager.

O. Q./Qu.2 issues an order regarding replacement of Jewish workers (see supplement 236).

(thanks to a friend!)
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby BRoI » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:41 pm

Message decoded at Bletchley Park:

From............Hiroshi Ōshima, Japanese ambassador, Berlin
To.................Minister for Foreign Affairs, Tokyo
Date.............20 May 1944
Regarding....Ōshima's recent meeting with Paul Karl Schmidt, press spokesman of the German Foreign Ministry, a "person who is in the confidence of both the Führer and the Foreign Minister [Ribbentrop]."

2. The British and Americans were prating without ceased post—war [? prosperity] but, as was clear even if one took the Atlantic Charter as a sample, this [merely] gave rise to a flood of snivelling discussion, all to no purpose, and produced, if one took away whatever propaganda value it had, "minus" [English word) results. That being so, German propaganda, as a general rule, did not touch on war aims. The peoples of the different countries in EUROPE, unlike [those in] occupied territories of East ASIA, all enjoyed a high degree of cultural life, and to control them would be impossible if particular promises like [those in] the Atlantic Charter were made to them. The Führer also was mindful of this, and in the communiqué [issued when] TISO lately visited GERMANY the expression "freedom of all peoples" was avoided and that of "Security of existence" was used instead. But this must not be taken to indicate that GERMANY proposed to deny to other races and other peoples their rights, or to subject them to oppression. Racial discrimination was what BRITAIN and AMERICA had hitherto subscribed to, but GERMANY, unlike them, while recognising that racial differences did exist, maintained the attitude that irrespective of race or people, all should be afforded the blessings of life. The question of the Jews, of course, called for treatment on a different footing - they were the nations' internal parasites and as such she would relentlessly eliminate them.


Found in: UK NA: HW 1/2843
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4466024

Image
Image
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Balsamo » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:09 am

This is indeed a good one coming from an Axis power...
Not sure it will be immune to the "Fake" accusation, of course.

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Oozy_Substance
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:32 am

Balsamo wrote:This is indeed a good one coming from an Axis power...
Not sure it will be immune to the "Fake" accusation, of course.


I guess a denier would ask to see the original written in Japanese, I assume?
And in addition, a denier would cast doubt in the Japanese ambassador understanding of the German language and that he mistranslated "evacuation" as "elimination" ?

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:24 am

I am bumping the thread with hope for more stand-alone evidence.

I present one of my own, from this HC article.

Kube re-entered the fray on December 16 by expressing his concerns to Lohse about the Reich Jews who had been deported to Minsk. He asked, "Is the slaughter to be carried out by the Lithuanians and Letts, who are themselves rejected by the population here?" (3665-PS; O.18/204; translation here). Kube was expressing the wish that Reich Jews, whom he regarded as culturally superior to Russian Jews, should be killed in a more humane manner than those Ostjuden had been, and should not be left to die of cold, starvation and disease.


The document is available here.


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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:07 pm

I forgot about this one until this morning:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2017/07/the-kinna-report-german-document-on.html?m=1

I didn’t see it duplicated anywhere in this thread.

The key is this:

"Imbeciles, idiots, cripples and sick people have to be removed from the camp within a short time by liquidation to unburden the camp. But this measure has insofar complications as, according to the order from the RSHA, the Poles have to die of a natural death contrary to the measures applied on the Jews."


Oozy, the link includes the original document in German, a transcription and a translation.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:10 pm

Here is the image of that document:

Image

Image
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Oozy_Substance
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:24 pm

Thanks.
I totally forgot about the existence of this one (Kinna Report.)

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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:30 pm

I might have something else for you, Oozy but it’s going to require some additional research. If I can track it down I’ll post it here.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Oozy_Substance
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Re: Best stand-alone evidence?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:42 pm



Do you happen to know where this document is from? Which camp or whatsoever.


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