WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:01 pm

(Since this forum has a special Trump thread, I guess that it is okay to put another alt-right related discussion in here, because as we all know right wing politics have a lot to do with holocaust denial)

When I was only started to get introduced to the holocaust denying-antismetic right, I was initially surprised to see that it was made up of a lot of atheists. Yeah, here and there I could see some "christ killer" chants, but phrases like "all religion is cancer but Judaism is by far the worst" were much more common. Hell, I'm pretty sure that Richard Spencer is an a self-identified atheist.

But that shock was not big as my realization that many right-wingers have this slightly odd affiliation with pre-christian European paganism, mostly Nordic and Germanic Tribal shamanism. I mean, it does make sense when you think about it, I guess in some eyes christianity is bascially just another Jewish thing that was brought to europe and brutally replaced the one true "white european" religion, but still, {!#%@} caught me offguard. I think the weirdest place I've seen this thing happen is in an all-female alt-right blog called "Heathen Women", where one of the writers is our good ol' red headed friend Sinead O'Connor who I guess needs no intrucotion. I don't know - or care - if Mrs. Goyim Goddess is also a paganist in her spare time, but I find it funny that someone who would probably critisize Judaism for stuff like cirmuncision, calling it "barbaric", would vicariously associate herself with a religous where people would eat Elk testicles or something like this.

Other strange examples off right-white-paganism expressions could be found of the comment section of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRg_8NNPTD8

I guess I'm not the only one who have noticed this whole thingit, which leaves me only with a question - is this some kind of trolly joke, or are there really right wingers who are so up-their-own-ass with their white pride that they actually turn to Old Germanic religion as something they hold dear?

Happy Hannukkah, by the way :P
Last edited by Im_Not_Creative_Enough on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Denying-History » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:39 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:Happy Hannukkah, by the way :P

Hannukkah = anti-white holiday

The Hasbara exposes himself.

Now that I am done representing the "otherside" of the issue its good to know you found that music, its part of a recent trend I have noticed with a rise in the number of Pagans. Its starting to become a problem as Paganism is sort of being a retreat for white-nationalists to "express their culture" that has been dead since before the end of the roman empire.
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:42 pm

.

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:50 pm



This is some "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" {!#%@} right there.
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Balsamo » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:56 pm

Great game back then...

Oh, and merry Christmas too ;)

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:06 pm

Ahem, Wintersonnenwende. :-P
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:15 pm

Happy Holidays to y'all! :shrubbery:
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:17 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Happy Holidays to y'all! :shrubbery:

ekki-ekki-ekki-ekki-ptang. zoom-boing. z'nourrwringmm
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:23 pm

That’s io, Saturnalia!, Jew!!!!!


:lol:
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:35 pm

Paganism and Occultism was big with NSDAP bigwigs. The Nazis build several "Thing"-sites, which refers to gathering sites of Germanic tribes, all over Germany for rallies
No wonder modern Nazis want to follow suit.
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:22 pm

From what I remember Hitler thought Himmler’s cult obsession rather silly.
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Gord » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:22 am

When I was scouring the internet a few years ago for articles on Old Norse mythology, I came across a number of websites promoting pagan white Norse cult-like religious weirdness. I was involved in a few discussions concerning it, and apparently there are (or were) right-wing nationalists going to prisons and preaching their neo-pagan religions to inmates. It made the internet a poor source of information at times, including for instance one brief conversation I had with someone who claimed she was providing me with mythological sources when actually she was just telling me stuff her deity was relaying to her through some form of mediumship. (Or to put it bluntly, when I asked her where she was getting her "lore" from, she replied, "Freya told me herself. I talk to her all the time.")

Even weirder, many of the left-wing pagans I encountered were raging against the "false beliefs" of the right-wing pagans, and vice versa. And there I was, stuck in the middle of a whole lotta crazy folks! But at least the lefties tended to be more pleasant conversationalists.... :lol:
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:29 pm

Gord wrote:When I was scouring the internet a few years ago for articles on Old Norse mythology, I came across a number of websites promoting pagan white Norse cult-like religious weirdness. I was involved in a few discussions concerning it, and apparently there are (or were) right-wing nationalists going to prisons and preaching their neo-pagan religions to inmates. It made the internet a poor source of information at times, including for instance one brief conversation I had with someone who claimed she was providing me with mythological sources when actually she was just telling me stuff her deity was relaying to her through some form of mediumship. (Or to put it bluntly, when I asked her where she was getting her "lore" from, she replied, "Freya told me herself. I talk to her all the time.")

Even weirder, many of the left-wing pagans I encountered were raging against the "false beliefs" of the right-wing pagans, and vice versa. And there I was, stuck in the middle of a whole lotta crazy folks! But at least the lefties tended to be more pleasant conversationalists.... :lol:


Left-wing pagans usually have good weed. Or so I'm told . . .
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Gord » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:32 am

Where were also into frolicking naked the woods. Oh, and archery.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:04 am

Gord wrote:Where were also into frolicking naked the woods. Oh, and archery.



I’m not sure “archery” and “naked” really go together.

:D
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Gord » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:05 am

I heard things about chafed nipples that I have since managed to suppress.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:16 am

LOL
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:39 am

Why shock? And why would an old Germanic religion be any sillier than any old Abrahamic religion?

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:16 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:Why shock? And why would an old Germanic religion be any sillier than any old Abrahamic religion?


Do you REALLY want me to answer this?
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:42 am

Sure? It's all myths and legends. Yahweh, Allah, Heavenly Jesus and Wotan are fairy tales. Are followers of Abrahamic religions "up-their-own-ass" for following their gods just like the pagans do, or is there a double standard?

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:05 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:Sure? It's all myths and legends. Yahweh, Allah, Heavenly Jesus and Wotan are fairy tales. Are followers of Abrahamic religions "up-their-own-ass" for following their gods just like the pagans do, or is there a double standard?


Paganism is would deal with the question of how you make crops grow. Abrahamic religions are about what exactly to do with the crops, how to distrbute them in your community, etc.. Paganism is about nature, it's about the trees and the rocks and the beasts and the clouds. Abrahamic religons, while defienatly not the first of only ones to so, are about less... matrialistic questions. The Talmud is just a big long book of morale and social disscussions. Even if it is origintated in fairy tales, It's still a more... conceptual system, something that tries to deal with things that are beyoond the here and now, which makes it much more intellecutaly adavanced, IMO.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Balsamo » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:03 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:Sure? It's all myths and legends. Yahweh, Allah, Heavenly Jesus and Wotan are fairy tales. Are followers of Abrahamic religions "up-their-own-ass" for following their gods just like the pagans do, or is there a double standard?


Paganism is would deal with the question of how you make crops grow. Abrahamic religions are about what exactly to do with the crops, how to distrbute them in your community, etc.. Paganism is about nature, it's about the trees and the rocks and the beasts and the clouds. Abrahamic religons, while defienatly not the first of only ones to so, are about less... matrialistic questions. The Talmud is just a big long book of morale and social disscussions. Even if it is origintated in fairy tales, It's still a more... conceptual system, something that tries to deal with things that are beyoond the here and now, which makes it much more intellecutaly adavanced, IMO.


My feeling is that you simplify to the extreme what "paganism" actually represented.
The term was invented by Christians to designate every religions that was not Christians or Jewish, that is a lot of things.
As for Moral and social discussions, there were a couple of Greek authors who were quite good at it... ;)

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:05 pm

Balsamo wrote:As for Moral and social discussions, there were a couple of Greek authors who were quite good at it... ;)


"Abrahamic religons, while defienatly not the first of only ones to so"...
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:21 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:
Sergey_Romanov wrote:Sure? It's all myths and legends. Yahweh, Allah, Heavenly Jesus and Wotan are fairy tales. Are followers of Abrahamic religions "up-their-own-ass" for following their gods just like the pagans do, or is there a double standard?


Paganism is would deal with the question of how you make crops grow. Abrahamic religions are about what exactly to do with the crops, how to distrbute them in your community, etc.. Paganism is about nature, it's about the trees and the rocks and the beasts and the clouds. Abrahamic religons, while defienatly not the first of only ones to so, are about less... matrialistic questions. The Talmud is just a big long book of morale and social disscussions. Even if it is origintated in fairy tales, It's still a more... conceptual system, something that tries to deal with things that are beyoond the here and now, which makes it much more intellecutaly adavanced, IMO.

None of this, even it were true (the Talmud is actually very "practical" in that it deals with numerous minutia of everyday life, even going into very intimate details), deals with the fact that this is all a figment of imagination. As silly (or not, depending on perspective) to believe in as the other thing.

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:24 pm

All religion is a vehicle to control.
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:25 pm

In fact it has been a frequent "criticism" of Judaism among various anti-Judaic and antisemitic authors, namely that the Talmud and Judaism as a whole are very materialistic and concerned with the life "here and now", whereas Christianity ... (blah blah blah). You're basically mirroring their arguments vis a vis "paganism".

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:38 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:In fact it has been a frequent "criticism" of Judaism among various anti-Judaic and antisemitic authors, namely that the Talmud and Judaism as a whole are very materialistic and concerned with the life "here and now", whereas Christianity ... (blah blah blah). You're basically mirroring their arguments vis a vis "paganism".


You've met some weird anti-semties. The common notion among nazis is the exact opposite: they mock Judaism becuase it focuses more about the conceptual and the spiritual. They find these stuff "gay" or "unmanly" or something like that.

"A people -- a real people -- derives its genius from the land: the sun, the sea, the soil. This is how they know themselves. But the Jew doesn't have soil. He can't hammer a nail, plow a field. He can only buy and sell, invest capital, manipulate markets. He takes the life of a people rooted in soil and turns it into a cosmopolitan culture based on books, ideas, numbers."

- A quote from "The Believer", a film that critisizes anti-smetism but Nazis usually love to quote in a non-sarcastic manner.
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:00 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:... He can't hammer a nail...

That's precisely why Jewish artisans were temporarily given a different kind of SB...
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:57 pm

I've never met such Nazis and I'm not sure that they exist. This, however, was written by you know who.

"Here also
everything is copied, or rather stolen; for the Jew could not possess
any religious institution which had developed out of his own
consciousness, seeing that he lacks every kind of idealism; which means
that belief in a life beyond this terrestrial existence is foreign to
him. In the Aryan mind no religion can ever be imagined unless it
embodies the conviction that life in some form or other will continue
after death. As a matter of fact, the Talmud is not a book that lays
down principles according to which the individual should prepare for the
life to come. It only furnishes rules for a practical and convenient
life in this world.

The religious teaching of the Jews is principally a collection of
instructions for maintaining the Jewish blood pure and for regulating
intercourse between Jews and the rest of the world: that is to say,
their relation with non-Jews. But the Jewish religious teaching is not
concerned with moral problems. It is rather concerned with economic
problems, and very petty ones at that."

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Balsamo » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:16 am

scrmbldggs wrote:All religion is a vehicle to control.


To some extent, maybe...
But i tend to think that primitive religions appeared to fulfill a human need to apprehend, interpret in some ways, the hostility of nature. To give sense to its brutality and its beauty, and the necessary comfort in case of deadly consequences. Dead has always been painful, and to be close to it is a period when even the most atheist will try to get some spiritual support.
Where i live, there are still some authentic pre-Columbus "indian" tribes. All their "spiritual lives" is based on "Mother Nature" from which they come from. The Shaman is the privileged interpret of Nature, and of course also the traditional medic, they treat the bodies as well as the soul.

Religion is this one thing that is to be found in every parts of the world where Humans live, not all civilizations became a theocracy. But of course, as civilizations developed themselves, ancient "Believes" kept their places in the new society at various level or disappeared.

I am not aware of a primitive religion - but then, i am far to be a specialist - that had any pretension of "universalism". Ancient Rome did not conquer Europe to spread the words of Jupiter and his fellow gods.
Actually, Rome never tried to suppressed "local believes" until it adopted Christianity.

As far as i am concerned, i consider that it is monotheism and its imposed interpretations that are the roots of "religious" problems. There are things i really don't like in "the religions of the book", whether it is exclusivity (Judaism) or "Universalism" (Christianity or Islam).

Just to say that i do not agree with the OP.
Granted, in some Nazi minds, Himmler mainly, there was a worship of ancient Germanic culture and pre-christian religions, hence its symbols. But this should not be exaggerated or generalized. The same way, one should not exaggerate the "spirituality" of "modern skin heads"...most are just to intellectually limited for that.

I don't know why you chose this band to illustrate your post. "Heilung" means nothing more than "Heeling", That some dummies on youtube get confused by the "Heil" illustrates best than words what i just said.
Personally, i quite like the song. It reminds me of "Dead can dance". (i am less fond of the male singer!! But the girl sings great ;) )

By the way, in our purely materialistic world, it is no wonder that some feel tempted to get spirituality among those ancient believes, much closer to a Nature that is today constantly under attack, no need to see some new Nazi threats in there.

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby Balsamo » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:17 am

Sergey_Romanov wrote:I've never met such Nazis and I'm not sure that they exist. This, however, was written by you know who.

"Here also
everything is copied, or rather stolen; for the Jew could not possess
any religious institution which had developed out of his own
consciousness, seeing that he lacks every kind of idealism; which means
that belief in a life beyond this terrestrial existence is foreign to
him. In the Aryan mind no religion can ever be imagined unless it
embodies the conviction that life in some form or other will continue
after death. As a matter of fact, the Talmud is not a book that lays
down principles according to which the individual should prepare for the
life to come. It only furnishes rules for a practical and convenient
life in this world.

The religious teaching of the Jews is principally a collection of
instructions for maintaining the Jewish blood pure and for regulating
intercourse between Jews and the rest of the world: that is to say,
their relation with non-Jews. But the Jewish religious teaching is not
concerned with moral problems. It is rather concerned with economic
problems, and very petty ones at that."


:? Hum...Too long to be a tweet from Donny... :mrgreen:

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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby BornAgainDisciple » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:47 pm

There seems to be same kind of "pagan" trend among leftists and anarchists in Europe.
Both sides are into viking stuff such as runes and viking religion.
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:16 am

Balsamo wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:All religion is a vehicle to control.


To some extent, maybe...
But i tend to think that primitive religions appeared to fulfill a human need to apprehend, interpret in some ways, the hostility of nature. To give sense to its brutality and its beauty, and the necessary comfort in case of deadly consequences. Dead has always been painful, and to be close to it is a period when even the most atheist will try to get some spiritual support.
Where i live, there are still some authentic pre-Columbus "indian" tribes. All their "spiritual lives" is based on "Mother Nature" from which they come from. The Shaman is the privileged interpret of Nature, and of course also the traditional medic, they treat the bodies as well as the soul.

Religion is this one thing that is to be found in every parts of the world where Humans live, not all civilizations became a theocracy. But of course, as civilizations developed themselves, ancient "Believes" kept their places in the new society at various level or disappeared.

I am not aware of a primitive religion - but then, i am far to be a specialist - that had any pretension of "universalism". Ancient Rome did not conquer Europe to spread the words of Jupiter and his fellow gods.
Actually, Rome never tried to suppressed "local believes" until it adopted Christianity.

As far as i am concerned, i consider that it is monotheism and its imposed interpretations that are the roots of "religious" problems. There are things i really don't like in "the religions of the book", whether it is exclusivity (Judaism) or "Universalism" (Christianity or Islam).

Just to say that i do not agree with the OP.
Granted, in some Nazi minds, Himmler mainly, there was a worship of ancient Germanic culture and pre-christian religions, hence its symbols. But this should not be exaggerated or generalized. The same way, one should not exaggerate the "spirituality" of "modern skin heads"...most are just to intellectually limited for that.

I don't know why you chose this band to illustrate your post. "Heilung" means nothing more than "Heeling",

I think it means "Healing".

That some dummies on youtube get confused by the "Heil" illustrates best than words what i just said.
Personally, i quite like the song. It reminds me of "Dead can dance". (i am less fond of the male singer!! But the girl sings great ;) )

By the way, in our purely materialistic world, it is no wonder that some feel tempted to get spirituality among those ancient believes, much closer to a Nature that is today constantly under attack, no need to see some new Nazi threats in there.




As to religion/spirituality, human sacrifices to appease feared forces of nature sounds at least a little controlling to me. ;)
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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scrmbldggs
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Re: WTF is up with the alt-right and Paganism

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:18 am

BornAgainDisciple wrote:There seems to be same kind of "pagan" trend among leftists and anarchists in Europe.
Both sides are into viking stuff such as runes and viking religion.

Um, sure. :nuts:
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