Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
User avatar
Oozy_Substance
Poster
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:48 am

Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Oozy_Substance » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:33 pm

I was reading a bit through Eric Hunt's manifesto, archived here, where he declares he no longer denies the Holocaust and accepts it as historical truth.

The manifesto is extremely long, as you probably remember, so I kinda skimmed through it. There was one thing Hunt said which caught my attention :

Revisionists have performed excellent work throughout the years. They have caused real “Revisions” to the official story, getting closer to the truth of what happened. They pushed for the correct lowering of the Soviet propaganda death toll figures of Auschwitz, Majdanek, Dachau, and elsewhere, of exposing certain structures which were falsely claimed to have been used for decades for homicidal gassing, such as five entire rooms at Majdanek.


Now, I know Eric Hunt is at the bottom line, a denier, or an ex-denier, so I'd take stuff he says with an extra grain of salt.

Yet I wondered if it's true that deniers somehow managed to cause any influence or revisions to the "official story".
I often see this claim coming from deniers.

For instance, that Majdanek's original death toll used to be 2 million and that the work of deniers managed to reduce it to the current death toll (78k if I ain't wrong). Of course this is not true. the current death toll is derived out of the Hofle Telegram, found in British archives in the year of 2000.
Last edited by Oozy_Substance on Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 16917
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:56 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:For instance, that Majdanek's original death toll used to be 2 million and that the work of deniers managed to reduce it to the current death toll (78k if I ain't wrong). Of course this is not true. the current death toll is derived out of the Hofle Telegram, found in British archives in the year of 2000.

Hilberg on Majdanek death toll, 1961: about 50,000 Jews (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... tcount=279); as to the number of gas chambers at the camp, I think Pressac is the person who worked out which rooms originally thought to be gas chambers were not used for killing people. Revisionist clams about the camp are not accepted by historians, no matter what Hunt says (e.g., revisionists do not claim 79,000 deaths at Majdanek - they accept about half that number - and they don't accept mass murder there, Mattogno & Graf denying Erntefest among other things).

There may be some such cases - but mostly in this claim Hunt and others trade on the gap between popular views and/or early understanding and the ongoing work done by scholars (Auschwitz death tolls are a case in point - and, again, it is funny for a revisionist to claim a victory when Piper estimates nearly 1 million Jews murdered!).
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

Im_Not_Creative_Enough
Poster
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:32 pm

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:06 pm

All changes in the holocaust narrative that were made in the past are the results of studies made by mainstream holocaust scholars. "Truth fears no investigation", deniers say, but in reality the Holocaust is invastigated on a daily basis by people who are actually educated about the subject. Whenever there's genuine, objective evidence, based on real historiographical science, that a previously-agreed-upon detail was inaccurate, the academics will fully admit it - and nobody will be thrown in jail for it.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:59 pm

I look at it as a retroactive thing, deniers claim that their “research” caused the changes but realistically they had nothing to do with it. Gerald Reitlinger in his book on the subject put the number of dead at Auschwitz at less than a million, he wrote his book on the subject in 1953. Hilberg also got close to the actual number in the early 1960’s. The Chelmno Trials in Germany in the 1960’s gave us the currently accepted number of 152,000.

It’s just denier backslapping over things they had nothing to do with.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 16917
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:15 pm

They pretend that scholars are biased propagandists poked by embarrassing "revelations" made by HDers - utterly failing to comprehend how scholarly fields work in general and being unaware of the ongoing work on the Third Reich/Holocaust in particular. And they count on their audience to be similarly without knowledge of the scholarship - which is often the case in that their audience is assuredly not scholars but people only lightly or popularly informed and/or pretty much in the dark.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balsamo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:16 pm

To pretend that "revisionist" "studies" have directly influenced historical research is absurd.
Any honest person - that is a person without prejudice - who read those "studies" can only shake his head in disbelieve considering the unscientific methodology used.

What can be conceded though is that the denier phenomenon might have given an impulse to look deeper into some aspects of the Holocaust - although i think that this would have had happened anyway.

I think here of the first Faurisson case in France when the Justice had actually to prove legally that Faurisson was wrong. It certainly gave a kind of wake up call which resulted in the organization of a couple of symposiums on what in France is known as "negationisme"in the 80's.

One can also said that it is denierism that motivated the creation of blogs like Holocaust controversies that now offers a formidable amount of knowledge to anyone visiting the blog, allowing people willing to learn to be much more "educated" on the Holocaust.

And i guess that this forum would not exist without this thing called "Holocaust denial".

That would be about it.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Balsamo wrote:One can also said that it is denierism that motivated the creation of blogs like Holocaust controversies that now offers a formidable amount of knowledge to anyone visiting the blog, allowing people willing to learn to be much more "educated" on the Holocaust.


I agree that sites like Nizkor and PHDN, along with Holocaust Controversies, wouldn’t exist without HD becoming prevalent in the internet in the 1990’s. They’ve been invaluable to me, I’ve learned to head over HC when I don’t know something. Nizkor is good for debunking hoary old denier memes and PHDN is good for specific essays and studies. One invaluable one I found on PHDN is on cremation.

And i guess that this forum would not exist without this thing called "Holocaust denial".

That would be about it.


This forum, along with the above sites, provided me with invaluable resources and reading material.

For me, personally, finding HD on-line helped focus my study of history in general and the Holocaust in particular. It renewed my interest in a period of history that I never studied in detail, my interest was European history in general.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 16917
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:29 pm

All true - but I don't see where scholarship has been "corrected" by HD: researchers be researching.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:19 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:All true - but I don't see where scholarship has been "corrected" by HD: researchers be researching.


I agree. HD hasn’t corrected anything, that happens naturally over time.

User avatar
Aaron Richards
Poster
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:03 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Aaron Richards » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:29 pm

Who made the switch from diesel engines in the AR camps to gasoline engines? I think credit belongs to the HC blog rather than any mainstream scholarly consensus? Kindly correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, more rubbing salt in the deniers' wound with this Eric Hunt video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLQrEIL_B6s
"...we had the duty towards our Volk (the German people) to kill this Volk (the Jewish people) that wanted to kill us." - Himmler in his 1943 Posen speech reminding any future holocaust denier how absurd their beliefs really are.
I compile rebuttals to popular holocaust denier canards here: http://imgur.com/a/725A7

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:59 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:Who made the switch from diesel engines in the AR camps to gasoline engines? I think credit belongs to the HC blog rather than any mainstream scholarly consensus? Kindly correct me if I'm wrong.


The interviews that say petrol instead of diesel have been around for years. I do give HC credit for connecting those dots, I’ve run across “Diesel Engines” on some relatively recent books written in the last 10-20 years, for example Nigel Ferguson in “War of the Worlds” said Diesel but to be fair that was not a book specifically written about the Holocaust. Anthony Beevor also used it in his recent book on WW II but again this was not specifically about the Holocaust.

HDOT recently changed their website to reflect petrol, I think USHMM did the same though it’s been awhile since I’ve looked at the Action Reinhard Camps section.

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balsamo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:All true - but I don't see where scholarship has been "corrected" by HD: researchers be researching.


Of course not!
Had those Revisionist at least respected the fundamentals of historical methodology, they could have in some specific case have played a role. But i am still waiting for this Revisionist Opus.
The main problem with revisionism is that they do not seem to be able to address the question they are posing in the first place, maybe because they do not actually ask question...they just...well deny...

But it kind of gave a new "sense of urgency" to boost historical research on the Holocaust.
I remember when i started University, at least in Belgium, beside Max Steinberg - who was a wonderful person - there was no one really interested in this topic. Well that was quite a long time ago, in the 80's, but then denial appeared in force only in the 70's.
My humble opinion is that it put a kind of end to a form of complacency that could be found somed of the original research on the Holocaust, probably motivated a new generation of Historians.

But i also agree with the fact that these development would have taken place anyway, but maybe in a slower way.
Pressac is the first one, as far as i know, who really try to get deeper in the killing machine, well he was first sent by Faurisson...

On the other hand, i cannot remember having engaged a Denier who was really aware (and following) the actual research on the Holocaust, most just don't read what they perceived as propaganda, confusing the broad memorial approach - which might have created a false sense of safety - with the scientific activities on the subject.

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balsamo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:27 pm

Aaron Richards wrote:Who made the switch from diesel engines in the AR camps to gasoline engines? I think credit belongs to the HC blog rather than any mainstream scholarly consensus? Kindly correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, more rubbing salt in the deniers' wound with this Eric Hunt video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLQrEIL_B6s



Well i have to admit that Eric, as dumb as he might be otherwise, has some Balls, and the way he brings Fritz to a state close to apoplexy is really enjoyable...crying out insanity like "Nazi were the heroes of the 20th century"...at some point there is hope that Fritz words " Its a LIEEEE" would be his last...sorry for him...
And there are people who call Fritz Berg a revisionist SCHOLAR...!!!
Pathetic...Thanks for posting that...

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 16917
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:34 pm

Fritz is hatstand.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balsamo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:38 pm

haststand???

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:46 pm


Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:13 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Aaron Richards wrote:Who made the switch from diesel engines in the AR camps to gasoline engines? I think credit belongs to the HC blog rather than any mainstream scholarly consensus? Kindly correct me if I'm wrong.


The interviews that say petrol instead of diesel have been around for years. I do give HC credit for connecting those dots, I’ve run across “Diesel Engines” on some relatively recent books written in the last 10-20 years, for example Nigel Ferguson in “War of the Worlds” said Diesel but to be fair that was not a book specifically written about the Holocaust. Anthony Beevor also used it in his recent book on WW II but again this was not specifically about the Holocaust.

HDOT recently changed their website to reflect petrol, I think USHMM did the same though it’s been awhile since I’ve looked at the Action Reinhard Camps section.


Roberto was the author of the first post on that topic, iirc, although Sergey also had a thread at RODOH 1 entitled "Why Diesel is Irrelevant".

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balsamo » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:41 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Balsamo wrote:haststand???


https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... m=hatstand


Thanks,
But then the term seems quite mild when it comes to this old senile Nazi...
It was enjoyable, thanks to Hunt, to hear with our own ears how crazy and lunatic this so called Revisionist scholar actually is...
his " I don't know and I DON'T CARE" is still in my ears.
Hunt managed to achieve the biggest humiliation of this fossil... This video deserves to be diffused.

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:45 am

Balsamo wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Balsamo wrote:haststand???


https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... m=hatstand


Thanks,
But then the term seems quite mild when it comes to this old senile Nazi...
It was enjoyable, thanks to Hunt, to hear with our own ears how crazy and lunatic this so called Revisionist scholar actually is...
his " I don't know and I DON'T CARE" is still in my ears.
Hunt managed to achieve the biggest humiliation of this fossil... This video deserves to be diffused.


True, a bit mild but gets the point across. And, yes, the Hunt take down is quite good.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:48 am

I just enjoy listening to Berg rave. He’s a vile old toad.

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:52 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I just enjoy listening to Berg rave. He’s a vile old toad.


He's been doing that Julius Streicher schtick since the days of alt.revisionism back in the '90's. :lol:

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:54 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I just enjoy listening to Berg rave. He’s a vile old toad.


He's been doing that Julius Streicher schtick since the days of alt.revisionism back in the '90's. :lol:


I’m quite proud of the fact that Berg called me a lying, filthy Jew.
:D

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:56 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I just enjoy listening to Berg rave. He’s a vile old toad.


He's been doing that Julius Streicher schtick since the days of alt.revisionism back in the '90's. :lol:


I’m quite proud of the fact that Berg called me a lying, filthy Jew.
:D


As a "kike" I outrank you. :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balsamo » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:59 am

Toad ???
What is wrong? do you feel some sympathy for this "undefined {!#%@}"?
I do not like Toad, especially in the country of central America where i live, as they are poisonous, and kind of really dangerous. But compared to this insane and senile "undefined kind of {!#%@}", they look like pets to me... ;)
He is like Goebbels without the IQ, and that leaves not much to be saved...

The good news is that this video actually shows the real strength of "Revsisionist scholarship", it can be ridiculed within half an hour by a former unstable teen...

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:01 am

Balsamo wrote:Toad ???
What is wrong? do you feel some sympathy for this "undefined {!#%@}"?
I do not like Toad, especially in the country of central America where i live, as they are poisonous, and kind of really dangerous. But compared to this insane and senile "undefined kind of {!#%@}", they look like pets to me... ;)
He is like Goebbels without the IQ, and that leaves not much to be saved...

The good news is that this video actually shows the real strength of "Revsisionist scholarship", it can be ridiculed within half an hour by a former unstable teen...



You are right, Balsamo, I apologize to all the toads for comparing them to the vile old goblin.
Better?

:lol:

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 16917
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:13 am

Hatstand is not all that mild: http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/fo ... read/3347/ - I always took the connotation to be mad as hell but also just weird - whatever, I enjoyed when poosh tried convincing Fritz that he (Fritz) was a Jew, it made ole Fritz lose his mind.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:19 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Hatstand is not all that mild: http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/fo ... read/3347/ - I always took the connotation to be mad as hell but also just weird - whatever, I enjoyed when poosh tried convincing Fritz that he (Fritz) was a Jew, it made ole Fritz lose his mind.


The fun part of that was that it had Ralph wondering. :lol:

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 16917
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:20 am

LOL true dat
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balsamo » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:38 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Hatstand is not all that mild: http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/fo ... read/3347/ - I always took the connotation to be mad as hell but also just weird - whatever, I enjoyed when poosh tried convincing Fritz that he (Fritz) was a Jew, it made ole Fritz lose his mind.


FRiTZ Losing his mind? LOL

I was still under the shock i received from Berg a couple of years ago when he declared without even humor that "The Nazis treated the Jews extremely well" (also in a Radio interview). I thought at that time that actually no one could be so delusional to state such a thing.
Then just as you, i dealt with his so satirical Anti-semitism which was so extreme i thought for a little while that he could be a fake.
But what he expressed here, along with the Nazis being the heroes, that is:
HUNTL: " 1.5 million Jews were sent to T, B, S, where are they?"
BERG: " I don't know and i don't CAAARE" and he screams in despair...It would have brought Eichmann to tears.
Beats whatever he might have said or written before.
So ok for "Hatstand", although i will keep my "undefined {!#%@}" (adding radioactive in it)

Poor old man, he was so proud claiming he would debate anyone, even on international TV, and got nailed deep by Hunt within minutes (hardcore way).
My christian part tells me i should feel sorry for him...but i don't

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:47 am

Berg once challenged me to a debate. I flat out refused, I didn’t want my voice associated with the old goblin.

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:58 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Berg once challenged me to a debate. I flat out refused, I didn’t want my voice associated with the old goblin.


I think he's actually managed to piss off more internet HDer's (with a couple exceptions) than anyone else on the planet. He seems to have generated an "aura" that most of them tried to quietly move upwind of.... Kinda like... Streicher at Nuremberg: "Bitte, Col. Andrus, stretch my neck, but ach, no lunch mit Streicher tomorrow.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 16917
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:02 am

I had a hunch when Eric abandoned HD that he'd really floundered on the question of what happened to Warsaw's Jews in '42 - remember his appeal to revisionists to find some Jews sent to Treblinka at that time and subsequently resettled to the East - and also on his inability to identify any Jews "transited" from Treblinka during '42. Indeed, Eric spent some time on these points, which only wound up poor old Fritz further - somehow the conversation went on to Auschwitz, and Fritz, after pretending not to get Eric's question whether he'd visited there, started shouting that Auschwitz was a picnic. An old Nazi shrieking in near hysterics that Auschwitz was a picnic is always a good ad for HD.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:18 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I had a hunch when Eric abandoned HD that he'd really floundered on the question of what happened to Warsaw's Jews in '42 - remember his appeal to revisionists to find some Jews sent to Treblinka at that time and subsequently resettled to the East - and also on his inability to identify any Jews "transited" from Treblinka during '42. Indeed, Eric spent some time on these points, which only wound up poor old Fritz further - somehow the conversation went on to Auschwitz, and Fritz, after pretending not to get Eric's question whether he'd visited there, started shouting that Auschwitz was a picnic. An old Nazi shrieking in near hysterics that Auschwitz was a picnic is always a good ad for HD.


Do recall... With Berg it's hard to tell on the internet where the BS begins and ends... He's certainly been consistent (and mind-numbingly so) over almost 30 years. I pretty much consider it an irrational obsession that turned into an act. That's not to say he doesn't believe his own garbage. More's the pity.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:41 am

Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Berg once challenged me to a debate. I flat out refused, I didn’t want my voice associated with the old goblin.


I think he's actually managed to piss off more internet HDer's (with a couple exceptions) than anyone else on the planet. He seems to have generated an "aura" that most of them tried to quietly move upwind of...



I saw a denier on Incoherent History describe Berg’s temper tantrums as “Bergian.”

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:07 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I had a hunch when Eric abandoned HD that he'd really floundered on the question of what happened to Warsaw's Jews in '42 - remember his appeal to revisionists to find some Jews sent to Treblinka at that time and subsequently resettled to the East - and also on his inability to identify any Jews "transited" from Treblinka during '42.


I think this is the great denier bugaboo, what happened to the Jews they say didn’t die. All they have is random speculation, they died in the Gulag, immigrated to Israel and the United States, changed their names (that’s a personal favorite), etc. They can gripe about diesel fumes, Leuchter and partisans but they can’t figure out what happened to them.

Balmoral95
Regular Poster
Posts: 853
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Balmoral95 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:14 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Berg once challenged me to a debate. I flat out refused, I didn’t want my voice associated with the old goblin.


I think he's actually managed to piss off more internet HDer's (with a couple exceptions) than anyone else on the planet. He seems to have generated an "aura" that most of them tried to quietly move upwind of...



I saw a denier on Incoherent History describe Berg’s temper tantrums as “Bergian.”


Previously "Bergundian"...

User avatar
Aaron Richards
Poster
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:03 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Aaron Richards » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:17 am

Balsamo wrote:Well i have to admit that Eric, as dumb as he might be otherwise, has some Balls, and the way he brings Fritz to a state close to apoplexy is really enjoyable...crying out insanity like "Nazi were the heroes of the 20th century"...at some point there is hope that Fritz words " Its a LIEEEE" would be his last...sorry for him...
And there are people who call Fritz Berg a revisionist SCHOLAR...!!!
Pathetic...Thanks for posting that...


It's not a verbatim excerpt of the interview though: its focus was to be a response to, and hammer home to the Youtube crowd Eric Hunt's revised positions on his former holocaust denial (as expressed in, say, his old video "The Last Days of the Big Lie" and others that are still circulated like crazy on that "family friendly" site visited by hundreds of millions), therefore I cut away most of Fritz Berg's responses, so in the video you get the impression Berg barely gets to speak back.

In reality, if you listen to the 4 hour original "debate", your ears will bleed from the Bergian temper tantrums throughout. :x :lol:

Balsamo wrote:I was still under the shock i received from Berg a couple of years ago when he declared without even humor that "The Nazis treated the Jews extremely well" (also in a Radio interview). I thought at that time that actually no one could be so delusional to state such a thing.


You haven't heard the worst of it. Fritz is a psychopath, and I'm not talking about his anger issues. Later on in the original debate, well past the 1 hour mark, Eric Hunt tells Fritz Jews were packed like sardines in the cattle cars when brought to these camps. Guess what Fritz says? He says the Nazis could have made them walk all the way but didn't, they got free train rides on rail gauges that were needed for the war, so the Jews should be thankful. I didn't include it in the video as this was mostly about Hunt's views, but sheesh.
"...we had the duty towards our Volk (the German people) to kill this Volk (the Jewish people) that wanted to kill us." - Himmler in his 1943 Posen speech reminding any future holocaust denier how absurd their beliefs really are.
I compile rebuttals to popular holocaust denier canards here: http://imgur.com/a/725A7

Sergey_Romanov
Poster
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:15 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:20 pm

I'd say yes.
"Good", detail-oriented research into Auschwitz began with Pressac, a former denier. So here we have a denier trying to debunk Auschwitz, getting converted and influencing accepted history (e.g. his Krema conversion thesis).

I would also give partial credit to Cole, Mattogno and Graf for certain Majdanek revisions. The death toll revision from 235k to 78k is to Kranz's credit, and if I'm not mistaken the abandoning of some GCs too; but a) Kranz has read M&G's book and actually has it in several footnotes. Pretty sure he was influenced by it. b) Cole relays his talks with Kranz about those gas chambers later finally abandoned.

Credit goes to Kranz for being open-minded, and these revisions were a long time coming, but yeah, I think the prodding was from the denier side.

Otherwise? By poking holes at the edges of history deniers sometimes find true mistakes, in answering them we correct the mistakes and revise history (cf. http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... useum.html )

Sergey_Romanov
Poster
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:15 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:22 pm

Balmoral95 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Aaron Richards wrote:Who made the switch from diesel engines in the AR camps to gasoline engines? I think credit belongs to the HC blog rather than any mainstream scholarly consensus? Kindly correct me if I'm wrong.


The interviews that say petrol instead of diesel have been around for years. I do give HC credit for connecting those dots, I’ve run across “Diesel Engines” on some relatively recent books written in the last 10-20 years, for example Nigel Ferguson in “War of the Worlds” said Diesel but to be fair that was not a book specifically written about the Holocaust. Anthony Beevor also used it in his recent book on WW II but again this was not specifically about the Holocaust.

HDOT recently changed their website to reflect petrol, I think USHMM did the same though it’s been awhile since I’ve looked at the Action Reinhard Camps section.


Roberto was the author of the first post on that topic, iirc, although Sergey also had a thread at RODOH 1 entitled "Why Diesel is Irrelevant".

You may rather mean this post?

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... evant.html

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6243
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Did deniers actually manage to cause "revisions" ?

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:43 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:You may rather mean this post?

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... evant.html



Sergey, I found your post while researching the lethality of diesel fumes while arguing with a denier on FG’s blog, it made life a lot easier!


Return to “Holocaust Denial”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Balmoral95 and 2 guests