Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

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Oozy_Substance
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Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Oozy_Substance » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:57 pm

I happened to read today on the Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941. Symbolically, today is October 29, but that is just a coincidence.

Being honest, the number of victims here is quite amazing. As quoted in the Jager Report we talk about 9200 victims here, with a victim breakdown of 2007 men, 2920 women, and 4273 children. All murdered in 1 day, at the Ninth Fort near Kaunas, Lithuania.

I wonder to myself if this is the 2nd biggest 1-day massacre of the Holocaust after Aktion Erntefest ?

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Re: Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Denying-History » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:40 pm

No I think they killed more people in the first night at Babi Yar.
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Re: Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Balsamo » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:43 pm

Actually, there was also the Odessa massacre, Babi yar, the Rumbala massacre. These are that come to mind...What is the point, again?

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Re: Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Oozy_Substance » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:51 pm

Balsamo wrote:Actually, there was also the Odessa massacre, Babi yar, the Rumbala massacre. These are that come to mind...What is the point, again?


No specific point, I guess. I am just overwhelmed by the numbers. I also must say that I can imagine the typical denier's response to that "10 people supposedly killed 9200 people in 1 day, LOL !"

Well, given Jager's figures are accurate, I can kinda see it happens. Just spraying groups of people with machine guns.

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Re: Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:53 pm

I’ve never listed one-day massacres of Jews in rank order (I should do this sometime) - and this is simply off the top of my head, what I can think of quickly and spot in a quick skim through some old notes . . . but no, not close, not even in the Baltics, where the Rumbula slaughters in Latvia (about a month later) claimed 12-13,000 lives on a day in late November and the same number one day in early in December. Nearly 24,000 Jews were shot at Kamanets-Podolsk in Ukraine at the end of August 1941 over 2 days - so at least one day and maybe both saw more victims than at Kaunas. At Babi Yar (end of September 1941) the Germans killed almost 34,000 Jews in 2 days. On 12 October the SS and local auxiliaries murdered maybe 12,000 Jews in Stanislawow - the infamous Bloody Sunday massacre. Romanian troops slaughtered about 25,000 Jews in Odessa on 23 October 1941 and maybe 10,000 the following day (I’m iffy on the numbers and too lazy to look anywhere but in my confused notes on this). I believe the October-November massacres at Nikolaev (over 35,000 victims) might have had a one-day death toll higher than 9,000 but I’m not sure. Treblinka alone probably had 20 days or more with higher death tolls - during the Hungarian action the daily death toll at Birkenau was about 6,000 (I don’t know about the highest daily death toll - Hans or Nick Terry would). And so on . . .
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:02 pm

Oozy_Substance wrote:
Balsamo wrote:Actually, there was also the Odessa massacre, Babi yar, the Rumbala massacre. These are that come to mind...What is the point, again?


No specific point, I guess. I am just overwhelmed by the numbers. I also must say that I can imagine the typical denier's response to that "10 people supposedly killed 9200 people in 1 day, LOL !"

Well, given Jager's figures are accurate, I can kinda see it happens. Just spraying groups of people with machine guns.

Deniers typically underestimate the numbers of perpetrators involved (covered in the Einsatzgruppen thread) but even so, in the recent Las Vegas massacre, from 500 yards away, a single shooter killed 58 people and wounded over 500 in less than 10 minutes of shooting. Do the math for a slaughter over 10-12 hours, with even just 10 shooters at most a few yards away ...
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Oozy_Substance » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:45 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Oozy_Substance wrote:
Balsamo wrote:Actually, there was also the Odessa massacre, Babi yar, the Rumbala massacre. These are that come to mind...What is the point, again?


No specific point, I guess. I am just overwhelmed by the numbers. I also must say that I can imagine the typical denier's response to that "10 people supposedly killed 9200 people in 1 day, LOL !"

Well, given Jager's figures are accurate, I can kinda see it happens. Just spraying groups of people with machine guns.

Deniers typically underestimate the numbers of perpetrators involved (covered in the Einsatzgruppen thread) but even so, in the recent Las Vegas massacre, from 500 yards away, a single shooter killed 58 people and wounded over 500 in less than 10 minutes of shooting. Do the math for a slaughter over 10-12 hours, with even just 10 shooters at most a few yards away ...


I must say that it's even difficult a bit for me to imagine it. Killing 9200 people at one day, almost half of them are children, as Jager Report suggest, is extremely horrific. Almost unimaginable. On the other hand it's quite consistent with other horrific large-scale executions that took place during the Holocaust. This specific execution was done by a group of about 10 men. So yes, I can imagine it, simply rounding up people at the fort and shooting them all with no mercy, even shooting the children.

I assume deniers would question it, and will call it "a tale out of Hollywood" or anything of that sort. Deniers tend to downplay the wicked human nature.

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Re: Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:41 am

The same mentality says "crisis actors" faked the Las Vegas massacre.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Kaunas massacre of October 29, 1941

Postby Balsamo » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:The same mentality says "crisis actors" faked the Las Vegas massacre.


Oh...shame on me...i thought it was "fake news"...you know with all those "Fake news" alert, it is hard to follow...Just got a last fake news this morning...Russia could be involved in the presidential election...LOL...and that Trump former campaign director has been charged...LOL and LOL...

More seriously, i learnt that there was indeed some conspiracy theories about the shooting, probably like the Bataclan hoax...
Can i call our societies mad ?


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