The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:32 pm

VFX wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Why is the near extinction of the American Native Indians not viewed as a Holocaust on par with any of the others?

The term Holocuast refers to the Shoah: The lower-case “holocaust” has described the violent deaths of large groups of people probably since the 18th century, according the Oxford English Dictionary. Before World War II, the word was used by Winston Churchill and others to refer to the genocide of Armenians during World War I.
Holocaust“ comes from the the Greek word holokauston, itself a translation of the Hebrew olah, meaning “completely burnt offering to God,” implying that Jews and other “undesirables” murdered during World War II were a sacrifice to God. While Shoah, the Hebrew word for “catastrophe,” is the preferred name — Yad Vashem now advocates using Shoah to refer to the near destruction of European Jewry and the word is used throughout Israel.

Your Indian point is a good one. The "Trail of Tears", involved the displacement of indigenous people, specifically the Cherokee people, resulting in a massive death toll. This was enacted by the Treaty of New Echota, which involved the Native people signing their own death warrant as well: the Cherokee Nation Council had earlier passed a law calling for the death of anyone agreeing to give up tribal land.
Under orders from President Jackson the U.S. Army began enforcement of the Removal Act. The Cherokee were rounded up in the summer of 1838 and loaded onto boats that traveled the Tennessee, Ohio, Mississippi and Arkansas Rivers into Indian Territory. Many were held in prison camps awaiting their fate.

An estimated 4,000 died from hunger, exposure and disease. The journey became a cultural memory as the "trail where they cried" for the Cherokees and other removed tribes. Today it is widely remembered by the general public as the "Trail of Tears". The Oklahoma chapter of the Trail of Tears Association has begun the task of marking the graves of Trail survivors with bronze memorials.
President Andrew Jackson signed Senate Bill 102, i.e., the Indian Removal Act (IRA). That legislation forced primarily five Southeastern indigenous nations, including the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole, as well as the Fox, Kickapoo, Lenape, Miami, Omaha, Ottawa, Potawatomie, Sauk, Shawnee, and Wyandot (along with a few other smaller ones), to trek up to 2,200 miles- on foot!- from as far as Florida to what’s now known as Oklahoma where the government’s newly created so-called Indian Territory was established.

These native people were brutally compelled to vacate their homeland on a continent where their ancestors had lived for approximately 14,000 years. That’s 12,508 years before Columbus and his murderous gang of white invaders arrived in 1492.

Today the US people, mostly white (and sadly Black) might argue that the “Trail of Tears” brought Civilization to the Indians: on this basis it does not count as a genocide and dismissed. It is off course a holocaust and needs to be recognized as having the same significance as the death of Jews in WWII.
Image
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:33 pm

Thanks for proving that you're racist with your unattributed copy pasta, VFX.



Edit: Example of copy pasta:
VFX wrote:The lower-case “holocaust” has described the violent deaths of large groups of people probably since the 18th century, according the Oxford English Dictionary. Before World War II, the word was used by Winston Churchill and others to refer to the genocide of Armenians during World War I.


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/the-word-holocaust-history-and-meaning_n_1229043.html wrote:The lower-case "holocaust" has described the violent deaths of large groups of people probably since the 18th century, according the Oxford English Dictionary. Before World War II, the word was used by Winston Churchill and others to refer to the genocide of Armenians during World War I.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:53 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Thanks for proving that you're racist with your unattributed copy pasta, VFX.


No one gives a screw what you think. The information is important not your thoughts as you do not have any. I have only seen you troll.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I will cut and paste what the hell I want. Please look at the arguments and the thoughts expressed without side tracking. Comment on those only.
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:55 pm

And may I remind you that I already reminded you in regard to citing and forum rules here.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:56 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:And may I remind you that I already reminded you in regard to citing and forum rules here.

Please stop trolling. Thank you and reply to the posts.
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:57 pm

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Thanks for proving that you're racist with your unattributed copy pasta, VFX.


No one gives a screw what you think. The information is important not your thoughts as you do not have any. I have only seen you troll.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I will cut and paste what the hell I want. Please look at the arguments and the thoughts expressed without side tracking. Comment on those only.

I'm once more reminding you of proper citing and use of copyrighted material. Please heed it. Otherwise the mod will be mightily impressed by your declaration.



Edit: grammar/spelling x 2
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:59 pm

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:And may I remind you that I already reminded you in regard to citing and forum rules here.

Please stop trolling. Thank you and reply to the posts.

I already did.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:02 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:And may I remind you that I already reminded you in regard to citing and forum rules here.

Please stop trolling. Thank you and reply to the posts.

I already did.

You have an inability to read content, process it and respond accordingly. Your very childish smilies may amuse others but do not amuse most people. You have no reason to react to any post as you do not contribute only troll. I see little value of anything you post.
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:04 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:I'm once more reminding you of proper citing and use of copyrighted material. Please heed it. Otherwise the mod will be mightily impressed by your declaration.

If there was proper moderation here you would have been gone many moons ago, as would the rest of the trolls.
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:04 pm

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:And may I remind you that I already reminded you in regard to citing and forum rules here.

Please stop trolling. Thank you and reply to the posts.

I already did.

You have an inability to read content, process it and respond accordingly. Your very childish smilies may amuse others but do not amuse most people. You have no reason to react to any post as you do not contribute only troll. I see little value of anything you post.

I'm not surprised.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

Balmoral95
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2121
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Balmoral95 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:06 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:And may I remind you that I already reminded you in regard to citing and forum rules here.

Please stop trolling. Thank you and reply to the posts.

I already did.


Plaigiarism too...excellent.

Now what was he saying about "credibility"? :lol: :lol: :lol:

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:09 pm

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:I'm once more reminding you of proper citing and use of copyrighted material. Please heed it. Otherwise the mod will be mightily impressed by your declaration.

If there was proper moderation here you would have been gone many moons ago, as would the rest of the trolls.

Aren't you glad that the HD subforum enjoys... special treatment? :twisted:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:11 pm

It would be appreciated if you could respond to the assertion that the "trail of tears" is not given the same recognition as the alleged shoah. If not why not? I gave a back ground to the situation in case others may not be aware of the genocide in the US. However, that is not part of this thread, but as Bobbo did bring it up it should be responded to accordingly. Valid point.
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:14 pm

VFX wrote:It would be appreciated if you could respond to the assertion that the "trail of tears" is not given the same recognition as the alleged shoah. If not why not? I gave a back ground to the situation in case others may not be aware of the genocide in the US. However, that is not part of this thread, but as Bobbo did bring it up it should be responded to accordingly. Valid point.

You're talking to and agreeing with yourself - it figures... :lol:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1763
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Balsamo » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:33 pm

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Thanks for proving that you're racist with your unattributed copy pasta, VFX.


No one gives a screw what you think. The information is important not your thoughts as you do not have any. I have only seen you troll.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I will cut and paste what the hell I want. Please look at the arguments and the thoughts expressed without side tracking. Comment on those only.


Well this is one of the few rules of the forum that have to be respected.
If you copy/paste something, using the quote button and giving the source is the least you could do.

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:39 pm

Balsamo wrote:
Well this is one of the few rules of the forum that have to be respected.
If you copy/paste something, using the quote button and giving the source is the least you could do.

Thank you for that reminder Balsamo. It is the least one can do.
Ich bereure nichts...

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:47 pm

I've always thought that THE holocaust was the Jewish shoah but "a" holocaust could refer to any mass killing. I get the impression that the holocaust following THE should have a capital H? Fair enough, live and learn.

Trail of Tears is only one of dozens of forced movements of the Indians by the USA directly causing by intent unnecessary suffering and death of the dispossessed people. Ourright genocidal attacks such as at Wounded Knee was also commonly used...but starving to death was the most effective.....like the Ukraine. I was thinking more of the intentional killing and near extinction of the buffalo, another small h holocaust if allowed to include animals/species, which was the primary food and cultural foundation of the plains Indians.

All these terms including genocide, holocaust, shoah and such have quite specific meanings and then a more generalized set as well. Allows for precision by those in the field, and sloppy miscommunication for the rest of us. Come to think of it, and closer to the theme of this offshoots beginning is the meaning of "horrific." Degrees of and continuums all over the place. All bureaucracies are horrible, but I can't quite call the DMV horrific....except near closing time.

I do support the notion of links and quotes and attribution. Its what makes the forum more than a bitch fest....an actual opportunity to learn, when desired.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:06 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I've always thought that THE holocaust was the Jewish shoah but "a" holocaust could refer to any mass killing. I get the impression that the holocaust following THE should have a capital H? Fair enough, live and learn.

Trail of Tears is only one of dozens of forced movements of the Indians by the USA directly causing by intent unnecessary suffering and death of the dispossessed people. Ourright genocidal attacks such as at Wounded Knee was also commonly used...but starving to death was the most effective.....like the Ukraine. I was thinking more of the intentional killing and near extinction of the buffalo, another small h holocaust if allowed to include animals/species, which was the primary food and cultural foundation of the plains Indians.

All these terms including genocide, holocaust, shoah and such have quite specific meanings and then a more generalized set as well. Allows for precision by those in the field, and sloppy miscommunication for the rest of us. Come to think of it, and closer to the theme of this offshoots beginning is the meaning of "horrific." Degrees of and continuums all over the place. All bureaucracies are horrible, but I can't quite call the DMV horrific....except near closing time.

I do support the notion of links and quotes and attribution. Its what makes the forum more than a bitch fest....an actual opportunity to learn, when desired.

The term Holocaust is fairly recent, more or less coming after Schindlers list from memory. Earlier on it was referred to the Nazi genocide of the Jews. It seem the Jews are demanding more and more attention to their plight at the expense of the other 70 million who perished. The 6 million figure of alleged deaths has been around since long before WWII. Six Million
Thank you for your advising me on the other atrocities committed on the Indian people. I referred to the "Trail of Tears" due to a Cherokee friend explaining his perception of events There have been many genocides throughout history, which were real. World Genocides by death., and some which were not as depicted. Only a third of the world's population believe the alleged Holocaust has been accurately described in historical accounts. This data was gathered by a survey carried out by the Anti Defamation League,
Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth. Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust." World Genocides by death.
Image
Great post, would love to know more about the real tragedy of the American Indians.
Ich bereure nichts...

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:35 pm

VFX....The Holocaust has been around ever since I can remember. Easy to google the etymology of the word.

Likewise, I was taught as a kiddie that The Holocaust killed 6 million Jews and 6 million other categories of undesirables under Nazi pure blood theory. You get above that number by including war casualties and collateral civilian deaths. I would think all issues would remain of full import regardless of the "actual" numbers. Nothing for honest people to quibble over.

Yes, the eradication of Native First Peoples. Somehow, even with taking the statues of Christopher Columbus and his ilk down, there is not the concern showed for Jews and other hapless victims. Sarc On: I guess its good to run Hollywood?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:02 pm

Bobbo...I know the figure has been around. Please watch the link to the video I gave on the 6 million: you should find it very revealing. Some of our guys did the calculations of Jewish deaths in WWII if they were treated as normal civilians and not deported. There should have been 1 million who perished as Jews made up roughly 1.5% of the population of 70 million who died. 1.5 x 10-2 x 70 x 106 = 1,050,000 . Due to the fact of a deliberate policy of eviction by the Reich with death by Typhus thousands more can be added to that figure. To a small group of people world wide ( though they claim another 90 million to their ranks now) 1 million or so people is a huge calamity and treated as such. The deaths of the other 69 million people including 30 million Russians must also be deeply respected.
No matter how you look at it this was not a tragedy but a calamity.

I think the plight of the indigenous American Indians should be revisited, as despite what they think, it is just not Jude who have suffered: the reality is that in that conflagration they were very much a minority. Very few people speak of the 4 million Germans who perished, it always just about the Jews. Even the Prime Minister of Israel Mr Netanyahu stated publicly that he thought that the Jews have over played the Holocaust and that is now bankrupt.
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:04 pm

VFX wrote:Bobbo...Please watch the link to the video I gave on the 6 million: you should find it very revealing...

That link goes to RODOH and not directly to a video.


VFX wrote:...The 6 million figure of alleged deaths has been around since long before WWII. [url=https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3410]Six Million[/url...
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:08 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:That link goes to RODOH and not directly to a video.

So it does. My apologies. :oops: Please feel free to watch this video on the 6 million below.
https://youtu.be/OtAnuXl5VZY
Last edited by VFX on Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:08 pm

Thanks. :yawn:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 10557
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am
Contact:

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Pyrrho » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:11 pm

Trolling is one thing...posting of copyrighted content is quite another. I take the latter very seriously because it can become a legal problem.

VFX, please reduce the amount of content you copied from Huffington Post to a very brief excerpt and provide a link to the online source.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:17 pm

I think that post in question is a mix of various sources.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:36 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Trolling is one thing...posting of copyrighted content is quite another. I take the latter very seriously because it can become a legal problem.

VFX, please reduce the amount of content you copied from Huffington Post to a very brief excerpt and provide a link to the online source.

It was from three different sources. I deleted that. I should have made links to those but it was for Bobbo to peruse really. Thank you.
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:46 pm

VFX wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Trolling is one thing...posting of copyrighted content is quite another. I take the latter very seriously because it can become a legal problem.

VFX, please reduce the amount of content you copied from Huffington Post to a very brief excerpt and provide a link to the online source.

It was from three different sources. I deleted that. I should have made links to those but it was for Bobbo to peruse really. Thank you.


So you did:

VFX wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Why is the near extinction of the American Native Indians not viewed as a Holocaust on par with any of the others?

The term Holocuast refers to the Shoah: The lower-case “holocaust” has described the violent deaths of large groups of people probably since the 18th century, according the Oxford English Dictionary. Before World War II, the word was used by Winston Churchill and others to refer to the genocide of Armenians during World War I.

However, relying on sourcing that's provided on another page and by another user, as also on that only your target of deception will read your post, shows little sincerity on your part.


Wasn't your professed purpose of dashing wildly through topics and admonishing users here to improve decorum and adherence to rules and regulations? Rules, that, by your own admission, you didn't even know existed, and when made aware of, simply dismissed.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Upton_O_Goode
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4106
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 am
Custom Title: Unlimited_Oracular_Guidance
Location: The Land Formerly Known as Pangea

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:58 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Monty: when both sides practice apartheid, how do you only blame one side?

The UN does not intervene ANYWHERE. It will establish peace keeping forces when BOTH SIDES invite them in. This is a real basic lack of knowledge/history/formal purposes on your part.

Again...both sides claim/feel they are chosen.

I don't think investing in foreign wars is in the interest of the USA, or any other country, but I agree the powers that be must profit from it, so that is what is happening. Just as other actors find it in their interest to oppose the USA/Israel combo using Palestinians as a proxy staked goat?

There is no need to conquer the ME....as long as they sell us their oil. Its why we gave the land back after we did conquer the Ottoman Empire. Like China in Africa today....don't conquer, just bargain.

Where specifically should Upton or anyone else be putting their emphasis? Its not clear at all.

Blather.


Thanks, bobbo, but when it comes to arguing with Montgomery and VFX, you might as well try to teach a moose to tango. It's a huge waste of your time, and it annoys the moose.
"Still, doubts gnawed at everyone. And under no circumstances could I acknowledge my own similar doubts. In order to coax the participants into psychic stability, I had to appear to be rock-solidly convinced of the necessity of carrying out this horrifyingly cruel command."

Rudolf Höß, hanged facing Auschwitz, the camp he commanded, in April 1947. He admitted to 1.1 to 1.5 million murders carried out under his command. Eichmann told him the number was 2.5 million.

montgomery
Regular Poster
Posts: 636
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:30 pm

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby montgomery » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:14 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Monty: when both sides practice apartheid, how do you only blame one side?

The UN does not intervene ANYWHERE. It will establish peace keeping forces when BOTH SIDES invite them in. This is a real basic lack of knowledge/history/formal purposes on your part.

Again...both sides claim/feel they are chosen.

I don't think investing in foreign wars is in the interest of the USA, or any other country, but I agree the powers that be must profit from it, so that is what is happening. Just as other actors find it in their interest to oppose the USA/Israel combo using Palestinians as a proxy staked goat?

There is no need to conquer the ME....as long as they sell us their oil. Its why we gave the land back after we did conquer the Ottoman Empire. Like China in Africa today....don't conquer, just bargain.

Where specifically should Upton or anyone else be putting their emphasis? Its not clear at all.

Blather.


Thanks, bobbo, but when it comes to arguing with Montgomery and VFX, you might as well try to teach a moose to tango. It's a huge waste of your time, and it annoys the moose.


So we're going to lose you so soon to the dark side Upton. By that I mean, the side that is so angry and frustrated on not getting their way, that they are quivering with anxiety over any mention that their claims are questionable. So be it, and I could care less if that's your choice.

As for bobbo's remarks, I don't agree with any of it and it's likely that you don't either. Further discussion between us is welcomed but it now comes with conditions. You will have to act in a respectable manner and not continue with the spamming and personal insults. Fair enough Upton?

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:20 am

scrmbldggs wrote:

Wasn't your professed purpose of dashing wildly through topics and admonishing users here to improve decorum and adherence to rules and regulations? Rules, that, by your own admission, you didn't even know existed, and when made aware of, simply dismissed.

That is not my aim, I said I support Monty. :lol:
Ich bereure nichts...

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Real Skeptic
Posts: 23376
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: somewhere

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:22 am

VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:

Wasn't your professed purpose of dashing wildly through topics and admonishing users here to improve decorum and adherence to rules and regulations? Rules, that, by your own admission, you didn't even know existed, and when made aware of, simply dismissed.

That is not my aim, I said I support Monty. :lol:

Duh. Unless one plays a different game, that's normal of one's alter ego... :roll:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

Balmoral95
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2121
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:14 am
Location: The Free Nambia Healthcare Nirvana

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:42 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
VFX wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:

Wasn't your professed purpose of dashing wildly through topics and admonishing users here to improve decorum and adherence to rules and regulations? Rules, that, by your own admission, you didn't even know existed, and when made aware of, simply dismissed.

That is not my aim, I said I support Monty. :lol:

Duh. Unless one plays a different game, that's normal of one's alter ego... :roll:


He should feel more at home here in his own skin... but we'll be able to address that in greater detail tomorrow. 8-)

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:19 am

Upton: I've watched a series of youtubes showing some kind of weasel catching rats. Mink, ferret, mongoose...all real close....maybe not the tango, but some kind of two step was observed? The Twist?....or maybe "The Dirty Hully-Gully"..both favorites of mine for different reasons. Ha, ha.....some guy did bring his ferret to our High School Grad party. "Is that a weasel in your pants?"====>Why, yes it is, would you like to see it? Good Times.

VFX. You may never learn to dance, but you may learn not to get on the dance floor? I did follow the link to RODOH but when I saw it was to debunk the death toll numbers (5 seconds total?) I turned away. In the main, denying the numbers is not credible. If you want to lie and manipulate a (xxxxxxx==pick your own word, I am thinking "rational") person like me, you have to find a more credible argument. As already stated, the number, to me, is not all that important. As Upton highlighted it was the whole apparatus the Nazi's put in place to do the job. It was horrific on its own, REGARDLESS of the number murdered UNLESS you want to join the Moon Landing Conspiracists as well and say the number killed were very near zero. No rational person can believe that.

You can quibble/deny the numbers involved, but do you deny the activity? Are you rational?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:00 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
You can quibble/deny the numbers involved, but do you deny the activity? Are you rational?

Thank you for your apparently considered post. There was no Jewish Holocaust, this is a total fabrication, though I think there were rogue elements in the SS that did commit crimes. If this is not true then you or others need to provide convincing evidence: most of the world at the moment is not convinced.
Ich bereure nichts...

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:55 am

I'm hesitating as I'm sure this has all been gone through before...……………..ha, ha...….how come you aren't bored to death arguing for what is so clear to you and so denied by others? ((((and just saying that on review: no rational person can believe what you just posted. So, the conclusion is you are not rational. but you are not incoherent, so what gives? How does a person come to believe such nonsense.....or in not believing it, choose to promote it for whatever nefarious reasons???===>what are your reasons VFX. Does it promote some pro-Palestinian or anti-USA interest of yours..... or what? And to tag my Nom-de-Flame and temp the Demons of Man: why not find a better argument and be more effective?====>>>>>NOT that I think you should, but its my first reaction to such as you post. ////// People are silly bunnies.)))))

But...….I've watched the newsreels of the US opening up the camps and filming the piles of bodies and char and the walking skeletons the Nazis could not get rid of. I watched the local citizens being marched through those camps so that your kind of denial could not be validated by willful ignorance.

I've visited several of the camps preserved as History. Silly waste of a war effort to build such camps....for what other purpose?

It really does come down to: who you gonna believe? Your own eyes, the overwhelming consensus....or any story that denies the same? Go Green.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:12 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I'm hesitating as I'm sure this has all been gone through before...……………..ha, ha...….how come you aren't bored to death arguing for what is so clear to you and so denied by others? ((((and just saying that on review: no rational person can believe what you just posted. So, the conclusion is you are not rational. but you are not incoherent, so what gives? How does a person come to believe such nonsense.....or in not believing it, choose to promote it for whatever nefarious reasons???===>what are your reasons VFX. Does it promote some pro-Palestinian or anti-USA interest of yours..... or what? And to tag my Nom-de-Flame and temp the Demons of Man: why not find a better argument and be more effective?====>>>>>NOT that I think you should, but its my first reaction to such as you post. ////// People are silly bunnies.)))))

But...….I've watched the newsreels of the US opening up the camps and filming the piles of bodies and char and the walking skeletons the Nazis could not get rid of. I watched the local citizens being marched through those camps so that your kind of denial could not be validated by willful ignorance.

I've visited several of the camps preserved as History. Silly waste of a war effort to build such camps....for what other purpose?

It really does come down to: who you gonna believe? Your own eyes, the overwhelming consensus....or any story that denies the same? Go Green.

My intention is not to demean your thoughts, feelings or emotions. Every one of those photo is shown to you was allied propaganda. They were Buchenwald victims who perished due to Typhus. At the end of the war, there was a total break down of food, medicine, toilets. This was caused by allied bombing. I have no other interests apart from the truth. If you are interested I can show you the truth. The issue you might have to face is that you were were lied to, and this lie continues. I think there is no better argument than the truth. Now to be honest it is possible my analysis and that of others is wrong, but at the moment that does not seem likely. The idea of these forums is to discuss these ideas. What do you think. Did you know that in all those photos you saw that they were all victims of disease. There are only 6 alleged extermination camps now and they are all in the Soviet over run sector. This whole myth seems to be created by the USSR. More work to be done, I don't care if you support or not, I would like an open mind. Politically I am National Socialist.
Ich bereure nichts...

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:31 am

"Wisdom of the Crowd" + Considered Academic Study + Eye Witness Acccounts==== makes the Holocaust happened as generally believed the most credible bet. Making other bets less credible. Rolling dice that come out balanced on their tipping points: not credible at all.

There are "lots of" filmed evidence of the camps at their liberation. Not just Buchenwald. With the war causing all kinds of breakdowns...…..why did sick people all decide to move out of town to concentrate as they did?

Make no sense. Know what I mean?====>Makes no sense.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am
Custom Title: bobbo da existential pragmatist

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:33 am

Oh...….forgot courtoom testimony such as Nuremberg and other trials.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Gord
Obnoxious Weed
Posts: 31617
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Gord » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:42 am

VFX wrote:Your very childish smilies may amuse others but do not amuse most people.

:| :laff:

:quix: :rulez: :strawman: :jester: :nyanya:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
VFX
Regular Poster
Posts: 613
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:36 am
Location: Arctic

Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby VFX » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:54 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Oh...….forgot courtoom testimony such as Nuremberg and other trials.

You seem like a concerned rational man, and sorry if I misjudged you initially.
In the Nuremberg trials, there was a judge, his name was Nikitchenko. (: Иона Тимофеевич Никитченко) This Judge was biased as was all the Judges: the Nuremberg Military Tribunal was not a real court in modern day sense.
This Judge was also on the Soviet Special Commission to investigate National Socialist war crimes. However, its true purpose was to cover up Soviet atrocities. This may seem like bantering but, this commission blamed National Socialist Germany for the massacre of 20 000 Polish intellects: this accusation seemed reasonable considering the Nazis were accused of horrible things. The information is here
People for many years believed the Germans did this disgusting deed and it so was written into history.
An investigation conducted by the office of the Prosecutors General of the Soviet Union (1990–1991) and the Russian Federation (1991–2004) confirmed Soviet responsibility. In other words the Soviets murdered the people and not the Nazis. This is a common theme running through everything. It does seem the holocaust was a construct of the Soviets.
Ich bereure nichts...


Return to “Holocaust Denial”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Balmoral95 and 2 guests