The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:23 pm

Thanks Balsamo.

Here's a thorough analysis for last month's reconciliation agreement, between Fatah and Hamas, it could have a title like 'Resistance' theology has brought an impasse to Palestinians

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-day-p ... e-gave-up/

At the beginning of this month, Hamas ceded its control over much of the civilian governance of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority (PA). In doing so, argues Haviv Rettig Gur, Hamas has relinquished the task of being a terrorist group that also governs territory so as to refocus on its primary mission: violence. Meanwhile, Mahmoud Abbas has reached a point where his strategy of curbing terror while trying to organize international pressure on Israel has not borne fruit. Gur writes:
Among Palestinians, the violent “resistance” is no mere tactic employed by a small handful of extremists. It is a fundamental pillar of their narrative of national liberation, a vehicle for reclaiming the dignity lost by their history of dispossession, a crucible that for many lends the sheen of redemptive theology to their long suffering. . . .
Abbas . . . cannot pursue the violent strategy he watched fail so spectacularly [under Yasir Arafat], nor can he acknowledge the flaw at the heart of his diplomatic strategy—the sad fact that Israelis who could not be frightened off by waves of suicide terrorism are not likely to be dislodged by waves of international tut-tutting. Worse, the trap is permanent. Israeli recalcitrance is shored up against foreign pressure by the very expectation of more waves of terrorism. The one Palestinian strategy fatally undermines the other. . . .
In the unity deal struck between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority last month, Abbas effectively swallowed into his PA . . . the very architects of [the Palestinians’] defeat, the party most responsible for the hardening of Israeli politics against Palestinian aspirations.
And, as might be expected, he has done so without any capacity to control what Hamas does or says in Palestine’s name. Hamas, after all, seems eager to surrender every instrument of sovereignty it possesses in Gaza—except the one that matters: its armed wing will remain intact, and under its control.
This was not Hamas’s “red line,” as some commentators suggested, implying that Hamas was being magnanimous with its other concessions. It was the original point and purpose of the entire exercise of reconciliation. Hamas could not give up its military wing because it was in the process of becoming its military wing, shorn of the extraneous trappings of civil politics. . . .



Read more at:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-day-p ... e-gave-up/

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:08 pm

This continued terrorist activity will continue to harden Israeli attitudes and keep sympathy high for Israel in the west, which is really what Israel needs.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:16 pm

I thought Israel needed "peace" ? No????? So...."in context" Israel needs Western Sympathies to increase its settlement activities.....Yes?????? aka: No two State Solution. We'll all be Zionists soon.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Balsamo » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:17 am

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Thanks Balsamo.

Here's a thorough analysis for last month's reconciliation agreement, between Fatah and Hamas, it could have a title like 'Resistance' theology has brought an impasse to Palestinians

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-day-p ... e-gave-up/

At the beginning of this month, Hamas ceded its control over much of the civilian governance of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority (PA). In doing so, argues Haviv Rettig Gur, Hamas has relinquished the task of being a terrorist group that also governs territory so as to refocus on its primary mission: violence. Meanwhile, Mahmoud Abbas has reached a point where his strategy of curbing terror while trying to organize international pressure on Israel has not borne fruit. Gur writes:
Among Palestinians, the violent “resistance” is no mere tactic employed by a small handful of extremists. It is a fundamental pillar of their narrative of national liberation, a vehicle for reclaiming the dignity lost by their history of dispossession, a crucible that for many lends the sheen of redemptive theology to their long suffering. . . .
Abbas . . . cannot pursue the violent strategy he watched fail so spectacularly [under Yasir Arafat], nor can he acknowledge the flaw at the heart of his diplomatic strategy—the sad fact that Israelis who could not be frightened off by waves of suicide terrorism are not likely to be dislodged by waves of international tut-tutting. Worse, the trap is permanent. Israeli recalcitrance is shored up against foreign pressure by the very expectation of more waves of terrorism. The one Palestinian strategy fatally undermines the other. . . .
In the unity deal struck between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority last month, Abbas effectively swallowed into his PA . . . the very architects of [the Palestinians’] defeat, the party most responsible for the hardening of Israeli politics against Palestinian aspirations.
And, as might be expected, he has done so without any capacity to control what Hamas does or says in Palestine’s name. Hamas, after all, seems eager to surrender every instrument of sovereignty it possesses in Gaza—except the one that matters: its armed wing will remain intact, and under its control.
This was not Hamas’s “red line,” as some commentators suggested, implying that Hamas was being magnanimous with its other concessions. It was the original point and purpose of the entire exercise of reconciliation. Hamas could not give up its military wing because it was in the process of becoming its military wing, shorn of the extraneous trappings of civil politics. . . .



Read more at:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-day-p ... e-gave-up/


Good you posted that.
It shows that there cannot be no deal made with Palestinians in a bilateral approach, even less i would say.
The change of attitude of the Hamas is not the result of a decision by a would be council of Hamas leaders, it is a decision that has been forced upon them. Every single big Palestinian leader is connected to a network which is lodged within the Arab league. Therefore any changes within the league will have effect on those Palestinian leaders.
For example, the change of Regime in Egypt has huge repercussions on Gaza (the fall of the Muslim brotherhood), but mostly, the things that are going on in Saudi Arabia could prove fundamental in the future.

From the start my main critics toward the peace process was this will to keep it a "Israelo-Palestinian" issue, stung in a bilateral dialogue that failed for the last 30 years. It failed mainly because it does not officially recognize all the actors of this crisis.

If attitudes can be changes in the backrooms of the AP, and i may be naive, but Saudi Arabia might play a big role in the future, that is if the Arab league can be convinced that a new way is necessary, then i would bet my left hand that most of the Palestinian leaders would change their attitude overnight.
The Arab league is more or less (more less than more) the equivalent of what the USA are for Israel.

I won't enter into the details, but it is no secret of who finances all those groups.

Imagine that the Arab league decides to finally recognize the State of Israel (i do not guarantee it would recognize it as a Jewish State, but a "State for the Jews" could be achieved. which in fine would be the same), wouldn't that change a great deal of perspectives and possibilities? This could break a lot of the "ideological and religious appeal" to actually keep on "fighting" for something that is now accepted by all the neighbors.

But it is not by confining the "debate" between Israel and the PA only that it will be achieved. The Journalist in my perspective is wrong that the Hamas has kind of infiltrated the PA, it did not do it on its own will is what i think.

Of course, Israel would have to make some important concession ( essentially regarding the prisoners), even if a bit pushed in the back, but there could be great benefits for the State quite even short term. I believe that the "right to return" can be bought back, the same way as fair borders be negotiated and that a fully recognized Palestinian State, member of the international community, and therefore submitted to its rules and obligation, with all the responsibilities involved, would play its part.

But this would imply the participation of the Arab league major, the USA, the European Union (could provide financing and relation with North Africa), Russia that would need to take care of Syria (quite easy under the circumstances), actually one should profit from the current high tension between Sunnites and Shiites to enforce the changes. In a eventual confrontation with Iran, actually, Saudi Arabia needs US support just as much as Israel...as well as all those monarchies...

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:05 pm


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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:37 pm


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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Balsamo » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:17 pm

Jesus...still three years to go... :(

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:20 pm

Balsamo wrote:Jesus...still three years to go... :(


Feels like 20.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:43 pm

This is important, an hour ago:
[UPDATE: It WAS important, and it was MORE than an hour ago :lol: JeffK posted it in the meanwhile, too! :|

- Trump will recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital in Wednesday speech -- report | The Times of Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-wil ... ch-report/

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:53 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:This is important, an hour ago:
[UPDATE: It WAS important, and it was MORE than an hour ago :lol: JeffK posted it in the meanwhile, too! :|

- Trump will recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital in Wednesday speech -- report | The Times of Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-wil ... ch-report/



LOL, I know how you feel, Kleon, I’ve come here fired up about something, pleased that I found something....only to find someone posted it first!!!

Seriously, though, I can’t see anything positive come out of this, can you? I realize your perspective is different than mine but this just tosses petrol on a smoldering fire. It will immediately place all the Muslim/Arab governments on the defensive and make them have to condemn this. The same with the U.N. It’s a move that the US avoided for years for exactly those reasons.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:25 pm

What difference does it make?

There is nothing but "uproar" in the area on about five different main issues? If its what Israel wants, what SPECIFIC REASON is there not to do it?.........you know, BESIDES the uproar.

If it was actually part of a plan.......like the Plan I announced as what Israel "could do" to move the issue along rather than agree to be stuck in a quagmire designed by their enemies, this would be a consistent move: to normalize and regularize normal Nation relationships. aka: resolve the dispute because HISTORY.........is moving on.
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:36 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:This is important, an hour ago:
[UPDATE: It WAS important, and it was MORE than an hour ago :lol: JeffK posted it in the meanwhile, too! :|

- Trump will recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital in Wednesday speech -- report | The Times of Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-wil ... ch-report/



LOL, I know how you feel, Kleon, I’ve come here fired up about something, pleased that I found something....only to find someone posted it first!!!

Seriously, though, I can’t see anything positive come out of this, can you? I realize your perspective is different than mine but this just tosses petrol on a smoldering fire. It will immediately place all the Muslim/Arab governments on the defensive and make them have to condemn this. The same with the U.N. It’s a move that the US avoided for years for exactly those reasons.


I'll try to give some context on this issue, which de facto isn't an element for resolving the equation, but in this particular moment here's the factor 'Trump' that make it more complexed these days.

Meanwhile, we all have to know that there are so many levels and so many players, that in fact there is a new unknown strange other universe over there, once someone bypasses the language barrier. Israel speaks English more or less, so beyond it, we Westerners don't have a clue what's going on. See an example, it's almost a crazy world:
https://www.memri.org/reports/twitter-c ... resistance
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:00 am

Here’s something amusing:

http://writerbeat.com/articles/19680-No-Palestine-Only-Israel---70-Years-Later

Yours truly is Jeffrey Kelly. I realize my avatar is a little grimmer than what I use here.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:35 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Here’s something amusing:

http://writerbeat.com/articles/19680-No-Palestine-Only-Israel---70-Years-Later

Yours truly is Jeffrey Kelly. I realize my avatar is a little grimmer than what I use here.


That Tom Purcell Jew-hater guy over there seems a whack job, everything in the mixer, from Herzl and Rothchild to 9/11 truth.

Leaving aside this 1961 Benjamin Freedman for which it's the first time I hear, everything else he says is absolute lies, fakes, conspiracies and distortions. Not a single word has any truth in it. You did a great job reminding him of what he doesn't know (or want to know).

A quick, note, for this 5-stages of Palestine map that lies.
The graphic being used is a thoroughly debunked piece of propaganda that has already prompted MSNBC to apologize for showing it on air and has prompted McGraw-Hill to withdraw and destroy an entire textbook that included it because it is a set of indefensible lies

- The MSNBC case:
http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/msnbcs-k ... ake/275035

- Israel: MSNBC's 'Palestinian Land Loss' Map Is Propaganda
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/42 ... ian-tuttle

- MSNBC Admits Anti-Israel Graphics Were ‘Wrong’ and broadcast was ‘factually wrong’
http://freebeacon.com/issues/msnbc-admi ... ael-wrong/

- Textbook Destroyed, McGraw-Hill Education, after being told maps in a political science textbook were anti-Israel, withdraws the volume and eliminates all copies, 08/03/2016
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/201 ... nti-israel

It's a meme made by dishonest people targeting well-intentioned people that don't know much of History, with a single aim: To deceive and to misinform and to make them more uninformed and uneducated than they are today.

http://www.thetower.org/article/the-men ... nian-loss/

I have some notes on this 'map that lies' and its variations. Usually the lying map has 4 stages, the one that Purcell provides has 5 stages, in a desperate attempt by these forgers to make it seem more credible and 'academic'.

But it's not. Here there are a lot of English links that debunk the map, scroll down a little and they are all there, in detail:

- Google Translation in English:
https://goo.gl/uhQwUQ

- Original in Greek with a lot of English links:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/protocol ... 908513856/

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:37 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:
That Tom Purcell Jew-hater guy over there seems a whack job, everything in the mixer, from Herzl and Rothchild to 9/11 truth.

Leaving aside this 1961 Benjamin Freedman for which it's the first time I hear, everything else he says is absolute lies, fakes, conspiracies and distortions. Not a single word has any truth in it. You did a great job reminding him of what he doesn't know (or want to know).



It surprised me that that a tape of the audio actually existed. I only listened for a minute or two, I prefer to read transcripts because I can read quicker than listen.

I did some brief research on Freedman. Turns out he was a far-right whackaloon so, a completely unreliable source.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:10 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:
That Tom Purcell Jew-hater guy over there seems a whack job, everything in the mixer, from Herzl and Rothchild to 9/11 truth.

Leaving aside this 1961 Benjamin Freedman for which it's the first time I hear, everything else he says is absolute lies, fakes, conspiracies and distortions. Not a single word has any truth in it. You did a great job reminding him of what he doesn't know (or want to know).



It surprised me that that a tape of the audio actually existed. I only listened for a minute or two, I prefer to read transcripts because I can read quicker than listen.

I did some brief research on Freedman. Turns out he was a far-right whackaloon so, a completely unreliable source.


You're mean. We have to him credit for his predictions being accurate and in spot. He predicted in 1961 a WWIII and it did happened, right? Don't be so cruel. he was just another truth-seeker and reality narrative pusher.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:17 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:This is important, an hour ago:
[UPDATE: It WAS important, and it was MORE than an hour ago :lol: JeffK posted it in the meanwhile, too! :|

- Trump will recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital in Wednesday speech -- report | The Times of Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-wil ... ch-report/



You know, maybe in this instance Trump was right. According to this Arab moderates are continuing their back door talks with Israel:

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-12-14/signs-of-arab-israeli-detente-in-aftermath-of-trumps-jerusalem-decision?int=news-rec

Maybe in this instance there is real “Palestinian” fatigue and pragmatism is taking over.

Maybe the current situation will simply continue until the idea of a two-state is simply dropped.

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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:15 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Maybe in this instance there is real “Palestinian” fatigue and pragmatism is taking over.

Maybe the current situation will simply continue until the idea of a two-state is simply dropped.


Thanks, JeffK, for this. This Dennis Ross mentioned in the article was the guy behind almost everything for the US delegation in the 2000 talks with Arafat. I've read his memoirs back in the time, and he showed me almost everything a person has to know about the Palestinian state of mind, and how they do things. There are also some interviews of him in the web, very enlightening.

I was about to write some of my thoughts, but then I've learned some new stuff, and I thought of Trump's personality a little longer. So, I postponed it for later, when I would fill the holes in my knowledge. But I have a deep suspicion that Trump, besides 'Undo' what Obama did, as with everything, he was really mad at Abbas, because he lied to him, back in May, for the convicted terrorists' life-time salaries. Probably he went mad when he found out about this Abbas' trick. As for the larger picture, I, personally, will just wait to see. Maybe the Palestinians

We have to keep in mind:
- Trump's statement does not exclude that Jerusalem will be also a Palestinian capital one day.
- The declaration did not recognize all Jerusalem as Israeli.
- And the recognition did not destroy the peace process, because there was no peace process. Abbas refuses to come to the table for 8 years now. For Palestiniaas, 'peace process' is almost zero about 'peace', and almost everything about 'the process'. Actually, pretending of destroying the peace process destroys the peace process.

Some links on Ross et al:

- Dennis Ross on Fox News Sunday (transcripted excerpt), 21/04/2002
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2002/04/21 ... unday.html

- Dennis Ross, Think Again: Yasir Arafat, Foreign Policy Magazine, July/August 2002
http://www.peacewithrealism.org/recread/drossfpm.htm

- Explaining of Camp David summit failure
https://bbcwatch.org/2017/08/10/bbc-ws- ... t-failure/
Arafat would get a sovereign Palestinian state, demilitarized and contiguous, in 90-something percent of the West Bank and a hundred percent of the Gaza Strip. Including exit points to the neighboring countries, a hold in East Jerusalem and the right of return to the Palestinian state but not to Israel. Israel would agree to accept a certain amount of refugees on a humanitarian basis but not a single one on the basis of the right of return.
In an interview he gave to Haaretz in 2002, Ehud Barak cast light on the circumstances behind Helal's claim that he "locked himself up in his cabin" and the allegation that the Palestinian delegation's negative responses were the product of Barak not being "engaged".
http://www.haaretz.com/eyes-wide-shut-1.35090

As for Haider's claims that "both sides were clearly under pressure from some of their own supporters not to make concessions" and her description of Jerusalem as "a red line […] for Ehud Barak", Israel's top negotiator at Camp David, Shlomo Ben Ami, has some interesting recollections.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/isr ... d-summit-2


- Daniel Doron, Non-Solution What, exactly, would a Palestinian state look like?, 26/09/2016
http://www.weeklystandard.com/non-solut ... le/2004361
The Israel Project notes that American diplomat and U.S. peace negotiator Dennis Ross recounts in his book The Missing Peace how the Israelis called Washington with proof that the Palestinians were 'planning massive, violent demonstrations throughout the West Bank and the next morning, ostensibly a response to the Sharon visit.' Washington pressured Arafat to dampen the violence, but the Palestinian leader -again per Ross- 'did not lift a finger to stop the demonstrations, which produced the second Intifada.'
http://www.thetower.org/ariesharon/
In 2003 a team of American accountants hired by Arafat's own finance ministry began examining Arafat's finances. The team claimed that part of the Palestinian leader's wealth was in a secret portfolio worth close to $1 billion; with investments in companies like a Coca-Cola bottling plant in Ramallah, a Tunisian cell phone company and venture capital funds in the U.S. and the Cayman Islands. Though Arafat himself had always lived modestly, Dennis Ross, former Middle East negotiator for presidents Bush and Bill Clinton stated that Arafat's "walking-around money" financed a vast patronage system known as neopatrimonialism. In other words, he used state funds to generate others' loyalty to himself and his agenda.


- Yasser Arafat, secret portfolio worth close to $1 billion; with investments in companies like a Coca-Cola bottling plant in Ramallah, a Tunisian cell phone company and venture capital funds in the U.S. and the Cayman Islands, New World Encyclopedia
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent ... l_dealings

- Muslim campaign to erase any Jewish connection to the Temple Mount. Dennis Ross, the former Middle East envoy under president Bill Clinton, told of Yasser Arafat’s position on the Temple Mount during the 2000 Camp David talks.
“The only new idea he raised at Camp David was that the temple didn’t exist in Jerusalem, it existed in Nablus,” Ross told Fox News a year after the peace negotiations broke down. “He was denying the core of the Jewish faith.”
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Editors-no ... unt-500257


- The Pattern of Palestinian Lies to US Presidents - Yasser Arafat lied to President George W. Bush when he promised that he was no longer involved in terrorism or importing weapons into PA territories, Algemeiner, 05/07/2017
https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/07/05/t ... residents/

- Richard Landes, Why the Arab World Is Lost in an Emotional Nakba, and How We Keep It There, Tablet, 24/07/2014
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-an ... onal-nakba
The day when Israel was founded created the basis for our problems. ... It’s because we always lose to Israel. It gnaws at the people in the Middle East that such a small country as Israel, with only about 7 million inhabitants, can defeat the Arab nation with its 350 million. That hurts our collective ego. The Palestinian problem is in the genes of every Arab. The West’s problem is that it does not understand this.
Sheikh’s conclusion is not that ending the fight with Israel might lead to democracy, but rather that once the West lets the Arabs win against Israel, then they’ll build democracies.
As transparently inaccurate an understanding of the Arab world’s problems with democracy as this appeal might be, it has many Western takers, eager to preserve their 'rational choice models.' Many post-Orientalists, in the tradition of Edward Said, have predicted the outbreak of democracy any decade now, from the 1990s to the 'Arab Spring.' Thus, while Yasser Arafat’s 'no' at Camp David shocked Bill Clinton, Dennis Ross, and a public fed on the idea of a win-win peace process, those familiar with the values of Arafat’s primary honor-group predicted that rejection. If 'that which has been taken by force must be regained by force,' then nothing Arafat 'got' in negotiations could possibly wash away the shame of a cowardly stroke of the pen that legitimized Dar al Harb in the midst of Dar al Islam. As a result, while Bill Clinton and Ehud Barak (and, reportedly, some younger Palestinian negotiators) mourned, Arafat returned to the Middle East a hero.


- For nearly a century, no solution accepted - Isn’t it obvious by now that any “solution” involving the permanent existence of a Jewish state of any size will never be sincerely accepted by the Palestinians? - Jared Kushner is Right, There's No Solution, JNS, 02/08/2017
http://www.jns.org/latest-articles/2017 ... o-solution
US State Department officials Daniel Kurtzer and Dennis Ross came up with a new “solution” in 1989. They convinced outgoing president Ronald Reagan and incoming president George H.W. Bush that the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was for the US to pretend that Yasser Arafat and the PLO wanted peace, and to negotiate with them. Yet Bush had to withdraw US recognition of Arafat 18 months later, when PLO terrorists were caught on their way to slaughter Israelis on the Tel Aviv beachfront and take hostages at the nearby American embassy.
But Kurtzer and Ross revived their “solution” 12 years later — and managed to embarrass the next President Bush in the same way. They persuaded George W. Bush that Arafat, having signed the Oslo Accords, really wanted peace this time. But in January 2002, Arafat was caught trying to smuggle in 50 tons of weapons on a ship called the Karine A. Now it was the other Bush’s turn to declare that “the Palestinians must develop a new leadership, not tainted by support for terror.” Like father, like son.
The Palestinians didn’t heed Bush’s advice. Instead of developing a non-terrorist leadership, they made Arafat’s number-two man, veteran terrorist Abu Mazen — whom we know as Mahmoud Abbas — their new leader. And — was this so hard to predict — Abbas promptly continued Arafat’s policies of glorifying terrorism, paying salaries to terrorists and encouraging terrorist attacks. So much for the Kurtzer-Ross “solution.”
Two desperate Israeli leaders, Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, came up with “solutions,” too. Prodded and pressured by the State Department, Barak (in 2000) and Olmert (in 2008) offered the Palestinian Authority (PA) massive concessions. The Palestinians still wouldn’t accept.
‘Solution’ Offered in 2010: Let Hamas Import Cement
Does anybody remember Dennis Ross’ “solution” in 2010? He claimed that more Palestinian housing would lead to peace. He pressured Israel to let Hamas import cement. “I argued with Israeli leaders and security officials, telling them they needed to allow more construction materials, including cement, into Gaza so that housing, schools and basic infrastructure could be built,” he later wrote in the Washington Post. “They countered that Hamas would misuse it, and they were right,” Ross admitted. Hamas used the cement to build “a labyrinth of underground tunnels, bunkers, command posts and shelters for its leaders, fighters and rockets,” he said.
But the State Department just wouldn’t give up. Martin Indyk and his assistant David Makovsky came up with a “solution” of their own which, as usual, would have involved Israel making sweeping territorial concessions and the Palestinians getting an armed, sovereign state that would be jammed against Israel’s throat. Israel needed to release 104 terrorists (who had killed 70 Israelis) just for the “privilege” of negotiating with the PA. But then right in the middle of the 2013-2014 Indyk talks, the PA’s Abbas suddenly announced the creation of a PA-Hamas unity government. The Indyk-Makovsky “solution” was left in tatters.
Does anybody notice a pattern here? Isn’t it obvious by now that any “solution” involving the permanent existence of a Jewish state of any size will never be sincerely accepted by the Palestinians?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
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Re: The History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:48 pm

"Does anybody notice a pattern here? Isn’t it obvious by now that any “solution” involving the permanent existence of a Jewish state of any size will never be sincerely accepted by the Palestinians?" //// Never is a long time. Usually...not more than 2 generations.

History, moves on. Often, with little regard to the personalities on stage at any one time.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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