Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:27 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:. . . Tonight Russian officials are starting to make statements about what the 2 leaders agreed, which has White House officials and department heads on their back heels, as they haven't a clue - and have already stated that there were no agreements on areas where the Russians are signaling agreements (Syria). . . .

Have since seen The Hill's gloss (http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/ ... with-putin) and the original WaPo story (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... f0c2333e8e) on this debacle.


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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:14 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:btw nice to see you scrmbldggs :)

Thanks. Happy to be here. :-D
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:17 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Now we may see this shift after midterms. I said this from the beginning, if the Republicans take a bath in November it may cause more Republicans to take an oppositional stance because they will have nothing to lose. They may realize that pissing Donald’s base off can’t hurt them more than they already are.

Ed Kilgore thinks not: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... sinki.html (last few paragraphs)
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:21 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Now we may see this shift after midterms. I said this from the beginning, if the Republicans take a bath in November it may cause more Republicans to take an oppositional stance because they will have nothing to lose. They may realize that pissing Donald’s base off can’t hurt them more than they already are.

Ed Kilgore thinks not: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... sinki.html (last few paragraphs)


You’re right. The GOP doesn’t have a complete spine between any of them.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:33 pm

Kilgore, not me! I just linked to Kilgore's column! Like you, I'd been thinking that a blue wave might damage Trump's standing . . . LOL, but, I agree, Kilgore's arguments are good ones, and not just about spinelessness but about how both parties rally after bad midterms. Related: in 2 polls this week, 80 to 90% of Republicans thought Trump did great in Helsinki.

Here (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... -few-words) is a Grauniad piece with more on the larger significance of the Montenegro affair.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:08 pm

No, I agree. As long as the Republican base remains committed to Thud the Republican Party will not stand up to him. They might mildly rebuke him here and there but that's it.
I still sit in wonder over this turnabout amongst the base towards Russia.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:11 pm

l'affaire Contrescarpe, or, to borrow Jeff_36's phrase, "the President who dragged France kicking and screaming into the 21st century"
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:39 pm

Say boys: just wondering. How come you don't post Trump material in the Trump threads? so many inquiring minds failing to benefit from your insights. ((While this sounds sarcastic, it is, but still true.))

You ought to think some more about why you isolate yourself so...……..what is being...…….. denied????
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:06 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:l'affaire Contrescarpe, or, to borrow Jeff_36's phrase, "the President who dragged France kicking and screaming into the 21st century"

Le "Pinkerton" - Monsieur 21e siècle - has been brought in by police for questioning, is being investigated for a variety of crimes, and will be fired from his Élysées position - as Macron is accused of coverup and worse. Jean-Luc Mélenchon: “If we accept that anyone can be allowed to pretend to be police alongside the police, we are no longer in a state of law.” President Macron is proving reticent to answer questions about the assaults carried out by the senior presidential security aide. The Grauniad reports.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:29 pm

btw Macron's approval rating: 39% (Trump's: 43% Gallup, 42.9% Fivethirtyeight.com)
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:13 pm

Andrew Sullivan's non-collusion, ideological-psychological argument about Trump & Putin: "Why Trump Has Such a Soft Spot for Russia"
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:02 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:btw Macron's approval rating: 39% (Trump's: 43% Gallup, 42.9% Fivethirtyeight.com)


That's because 61% of Frenchl like 43% of Americans, cannot comprehend greatness.

More later if I dont fall asleep when I get home.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:34 pm

Another piece on with a non-collusion/non-puppet argument about affinities among Trump and Putin (and the radical right in Europe) - "the globalization of a hard-right hyperpartisanship in which Russia makes alliances not with nations per se, but with the racist white nationalist and plutocratic movements and candidates within those countries": "Putin, Trump and the New Cold War Between Liberalism and White Supremacy"
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:36 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:btw Macron's approval rating: 39% (Trump's: 43% Gallup, 42.9% Fivethirtyeight.com)


That's because 61% of Frenchl like 43% of Americans, cannot comprehend greatness.

sadly, this is so far off that it isn't even wrong
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:03 pm

"Steve Bannon plans Brussels-based foundation 'The Movement' for EU far-right"; according to The Sunday Times and other media sources, Bannon has been having discussions with Brexit leader Nigel Farage and members of Le Pen’s Reassamblement National party about leadership of this new initiative. Targeting spring's EU elections, Bannon and company project winning over as many as 1//3 of the MPs in the European parliament.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:32 pm

l'affaire "Pinkerton": as the scandal grows, with Jean-Luc Mélenchon saying that «l'affaire est du niveau du Watergate», even Macronist deputy Sonia Krimi (LREM) has tweeted, «Je suis abasourdie. On avait été élus pour la transparence. Ça ressemble au vieux monde.» Le vieux monde, eh?
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:46 pm

Oh my. Latest polling in Sweden, for 9 September elections - with a yuuuuge change taking place as the country burns:

Government Bloc (37% n/c)
Social Democrats 23% (-1 pt)
Left 10% (+1 pt)
Greens 4% (n/c)

Opposition Alliance (36% n/c)
Moderaterna 18% (-2 pts)
Liberals 5% (n/c)
Christian Democrats 4% (+1 pt)
Center 9% (-1 pt)

Sweden Democrats 24% (+2 pts)
Feminist Initiative 1% (-1 pt)

Undecided/? 2% (n/c)

The formerly neo-fascist Sweden Democrats have overtaken the Social Democrats, at least in the latest polling, as the country's largest party. The Sunday Times (London) writes,
A nationalist anti-immigration party with its roots in the white supremacy movement has surged into the lead in the Swedish election campaign in a backlash against the country’s liberal asylum and migration policies.

The Sweden Democrats have become a focus for anger about gang crime in city centre immigrant communities and the influx of asylum seekers in 2015-16.

Forming a government, given that all parties except the dwindling Moderaterna decline coalition with the Sweden Democrats, will be difficult. Swedish political scientist Nicholas Aylot discussing prospects for continuation of government by a conservative or left bloc: "The rise of the Sweden Democrats completely disrupts that because it deprives each of the two blocs of a realistic chance of winning their own majority."

Along with their focus on migration and crime, the Sweden Democrats are calling for a Swexit referendum.

Since January the Social Democrats have lost 4 pts, the Moderaterna have lost 5 pts, the Left has gained 3 pts . . . and the Sweden Democrats have gained 7 pts.

Baseline: in the 2014 election the Social Democrats got 31% of the vote and the Sweden Democrats just under 13%.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:23 pm

Adam Tooze (Wages of Destruction) on economic nationalism and trade today: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/23/opin ... ncker.html
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:12 pm

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:28 pm

Austerity wars in Italy: Italexit?
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:18 pm

Might could be time to re-read JG Ballard's The Drowned World . . .
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:27 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Elin Ersson from Göteborg

more on Ersson's protest - "The man whose deportation Elin Ersson tried to prevent: By refusing to take her seat on a flight, Elin Ersson planned to prevent the deportation of Ismail Khawari back to Afghanistan. However, the man was not on board and has now been deported after all. DW spoke with him."

Did you integrate well? What was your life like in Sweden?

I wasn't allowed to work in Sweden and I didn't learn anything either. Although I lived there for a long time, I don't speak the language. I had a lot of psychological issues and I didn't go out.

Why were you marked for deportation?

I was just sitting at home in Sweden. After I was rejected for asylum three times, I went to Germany hoping to perhaps apply for asylum there. After a few months I realized that this was not going to happen and so I went back to be close to my family. When I arrived back in Sweden, the police arrested me.

I was then held in deportation detention for eight months, first in Malmö, then Gothenburg and finally in Stockholm. It was terrible there. They treated me very badly; I was barely able to stand it. It's horrible and almost creepy. They call it deportation custody but it's more like a prison where you're treated like cattle. The guards are racist and refuse to help you. They just sat around and played their own games.

Do you have friends or acquaintances in Afghanistan?

No, I don't know anybody here. I know one other boy from deportation custody but no one else. I don't know where to go now.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balsamo » Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:06 am

Thanks

Regarding this thread, i thought was important also to focus on the 76% who won't vote for the "Swedish democrats". Dear Elin is a reminder of what Sweden used to be, showing that Sweden can also stay that way.

Was wondering if you had contact with Swedish who actually do vote for the SD? What are their profound reason, i mean beyond crisis like the migrants on.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:00 am

It will probably not come as a surprise that the only people I know in Sweden do not support the Sweden Democrats! I know one "dissenting' Liberal - he wants the Liberals to join the government coalition, in part to bolster the government against the right. Two Greens. One supporter of the Left. A person who does youth work among immigrants in infamous "no go" Rinkeby - don't know his party affiliation. Other people haven't mentioned their party preference to me but are generally on the progressive side of things.

Oddly, to my knowledge, I know no one who considers himself or herself a Social Democrat, until now the largest party. Löfven is seen as honest, not slick or polished, maybe a little rough around the edges, but decent.

Most of those whom I know are still very upset by the period of Moderaterna rule and what they call "the British" or "the American" model (privatization, deregulation, less social programs). Moderaterna "reforms" remain a sore spot, an open wound, for them. Their view of the Sweden Democrats is so hostile that they almost discount them.

So privatization, education (seen as a victim of "the British model"), sustainable growth and environmental issues (ironically, given recent news, protection of forest land often comes up - allmansrätten), and housing are the top political issues I hear about. There is a lot of concern about housing - the general tightness of the market, the real estate bubble, and lack of rentals.

Near where some of my friends used to live were Roma encampment in the forest (written up in the NY Times actually) and also a new modular housing center (maybe 200m x 200m behind cyclone fencing) for refugees. It was subject to various attacks - hostile graffiti, small fires, etc. When I visited this area, before anyone had moved into the units, there was a sign outside the housing center asking for information on vandalism. Eventually, the modular housing units were torched and burned to the ground. My friends were very upset that this could have happened. The Roma were described as difficult neighbors who did not clean up around their campground.

One view I hear among these "left leaners" is that whilst the government mishandled the refugee admissions (they focus as much on poor integration efforts and lack of support as on the large number of admissions), without the nationalist agitation, the situation would work itself through over some years - with patience. It is important to recall that all parties, except the Sweden Democrats, have supported the generous admission policy - it actually began under the Moderaterna and continued under the current government until a little over a year ago. A number of those whom I know are themselves either immigrants or children of immigrants, from an earlier period - they say that they experience prejudice in economic opportunity and in everyday life.

No one I know talks much about crime, a wedge issue for the Sweden Democrats. I may have posted about this the last time I was in Sweden - there was a gang murder at a Middle Eastern restaurant about 200-300 meters from where I was visiting - the neighborhood was shut down by police vehicles, helicopters hovered, officers and dogs searched the area, etc. This murder was not, despite our being unable to leave the neighborhood for a few hours, cause for much concern, other than sympathy for the guy who was shot, let alone panic, chatter about immigrant crime, or other extreme reactions.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balmoral95 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:13 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:It will probably not come as a surprise that the only people I know in Sweden do not support the Sweden Democrats! I know one "dissenting' Liberal - he wants the Liberals to join the government coalition, in part to bolster the government against the right. Two Greens. One supporter of the Left. A person who does youth work among immigrants in infamous "no go" Rinkeby - don't know his party affiliation. Other people haven't mentioned their party preference to me but are generally on the progressive side of things.

Oddly, to my knowledge, I know no one who considers himself or herself a Social Democrat, until now the largest party. Löfven is seen as honest, not slick or polished, maybe a little rough around the edges, but decent.

Most of those whom I know are still very upset by the period of Moderaterna rule and what they call "the British" or "the American" model (privatization, deregulation, less social programs). Moderaterna "reforms" remain a sore spot, an open wound, for them. Their view of the Sweden Democrats is so hostile that they almost discount them.

Near where some of my friends used to live were Roma encampment in the forest (written up in the NY Times actually) and also a new modular housing center (maybe 200m x 200m behind cyclone fencing) for refugees. It was subject to various attacks - hostile graffiti, small fires, etc. When I visited this area, before anyone had moved into the units, there was a sign outside the housing center asking for information on vandalism. Eventually, the modular housing units were torched and burned to the ground. My friends were very upset that this could have happened. The Roma were described as difficult neighbors who did not clean up around their campground.

One view I hear among these "left leaners" is that whilst the government mishandled the refugee admissions (they focus as much on poor integration efforts and lack of support as on the large number of admissions), without the nationalist agitation, the situation would work itself through over some years - with patience. It is important to recall that all parties, except the Sweden Democrats, have supported the generous admission policy - it actually began under the Moderaterna and continued under the current government until a little over a year ago. A number of those whom I know are themselves either immigrants or children of immigrants, from an earlier period - they say that they experience prejudice in economic opportunity and in everyday life.

No one I know talks much about crime, a wedge issue for the Sweden Democrats. I may have posted about this the last time I was in Sweden - there was a gang murder at a Middle Eastern restaurant about 200-300 meters from where I was visiting - the neighborhood was shut down by police vehicles, helicopters hovered, officers and dogs searched the area, etc. This murder was not, despite our being unable to leave the neighborhood for a few hours, cause for much concern, other than sympathy for the guy who was shot, let alone panic, chatter about immigrant crime, or other extreme reactions.


Been_there und cohort aren't out policing the streets? :roll:

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:17 am

LOL well, maybe, but been-there is not among those I know - thank goodness! . . . sorry, I added a sentence or two after you posted as follows: "So privatization, education (seen as a victim of 'the British model'), sustainable growth and environmental issues (ironically, given recent news, protection of forest land often comes up - allmansrätten), and housing are the top political issues I hear about. There is a lot of concern about housing - the general tightness of the market, the real estate bubble, and lack of rentals."
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:11 am

Balsamo wrote:Just a question ... can anyone explains to me what kind of thread Russia poses to the USA?
Please, not your elections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dy26HE28Gc&feature=youtu.be
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:33 am

Speaking of Sweden - ok, I know we weren't - half the country, which has been subject to drought and excessive heat, seems to be on fire, the other half seems to have drowned in flash floods that occurred when rain finally came. Here, from a day or two ago, is a photo of Uppsala's Centralstation (central railway station):

Image
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:17 am

Sweden Democrats on Bannon's pitch in Europe: ”Inte intressant för oss” [not interesting to us]
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:21 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Speaking of Sweden - ok, I know we weren't - half the country, which has been subject to drought and excessive heat, seems to be on fire, the other half seems to have drowned in flash floods that occurred when rain finally came. Here, from a day or two ago, is a photo of Uppsala's Centralstation (central railway station):

Image


Typhoid shots must be free there.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balmoral95 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:25 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Sweden Democrats on Bannon's pitch in Europe: ”Inte intressant för oss” [not interesting to us]


Apparently the cosmopolitan appeal of a fat, dipso, American slob isn't what it once was. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:41 pm

I know we cleared out the Trump thread but in case you were wondering:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/31/politics/donald-trump-collusion-defense-tweet/index.html

Trump didn’t do it but even if he did it is not a crime. So even if it is found he was colluding it wouldn’t matter because that’s not a crime.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:03 pm

Brexit contingency planning: It's all good, no worries, food supplies should be adequate, possibly, and “We are not going to run out of food — this isn’t about the return of rationing. But there could be some shortages and an erosion of choice.”
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:06 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Brexit contingency planning: It's all good, no worries, food supplies should be adequate, possibly, and “We are not going to run out of food — this isn’t about the return of rationing. But there could be some shortages and an erosion of choice.”



It reminds me of my standing rule:

Never believe an IT person when they tell you everything will be fine and don’t worry about it.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:13 pm

2016: vote Leave: more funding for NHS, economic prosperity and booming trade, control over our borders, jobs and income!

2018: support Leave: we will try to ensure adequate food
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:44 pm

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balmoral95 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:47 am

I think Jews did it! (saving been_there the trouble):


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45028732

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:14 pm

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby landrew » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:30 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Brexit contingency planning: It's all good, no worries, food supplies should be adequate, possibly, and “We are not going to run out of food — this isn’t about the return of rationing. But there could be some shortages and an erosion of choice.”

As long as the U-boats don't sink the convoys.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Jews attacking Sweden from all angles: "Sweden's highest point set to lose title as glacier melts: Glacier on the southern tip of Kebnekaise mountain shrinks due to record Arctic temperatures" - Swedes are counting on been-there to stop all this mayhem


He'll need to look at some "primal sources" on "zionist yoga" beforehand. :roll: :lol:


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