Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balsamo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:05 am

Back to Germany.
You may have followed that a deal was reached between the CSU and the CDU, on the creation of "transit camp" for Migrants already registered in other EU States. I admit that i was quite scared of the reaction of the SPD who had not been consulted before the former deal had been made public.
It seems that one day was enough for Merkel to rally the SPD, which i see as a good sign in regards of what i wrote above about the needs for the democratic parties to realize the gravity of the situation. So the Wake up call has been heard.

Note that those "transit camps" are only meant for Migrants already registered in another EU country. Those won't be expelled back to where they came, but to the country where they first sought asylum.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:37 am

long read, profile of George Soros and assessment of his "Open Society" ideas in the context of Trumpism and the weakening of the EU: "The Globalist: George Soros after the open society"
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balsamo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:16 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:LOL true dat. I am rooting, of course, for Sweden. As is my wife, with a strong nod from her also to France. After our trip to Berlin and Sweden, we are home for a bit, then in Paris for 2 weeks later in the fall, where she can dazzle me with her command of the French language. She has a strong affinity for France. My 2nd choice is Brazil.


BYE BYE BRAZIL...Next on the Menu the "Frog Eaters"·...
:award:

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:19 pm

LOL
You know, I haven’t watched any of the World Cup this year. Been busy...
I watched it back in 1994 when it came to the United States. I was taking Summer classes at the university and spending the Summer in the dorms. We had a community TV room where we went to watch it.
Ah, youth, where have thy gone?
:D
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The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:45 pm

congratulations, that's awesome - one of Russia, Croatia, England, or Sweden will be in the final, which is really weird; if you beat France, your path looks almost clear LOL
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balsamo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:24 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:congratulations, that's awesome - one of Russia, Croatia, England, or Sweden will be in the final, which is really weird; if you beat France, your path looks almost clear LOL


Objectively we are the best team left...But Football is a mean sport...it is not always the best team that wins the match...France while not impressive on the fields (except against Argentina) will still be a hard fight...But yes, it is THE historical opportunity to reach the grail...
Given that politically, the first party is still the nationalist (quite far right) Flemish Party...Belgium winning the world cup would be the biggest blow that could hit it hard...The country really needs this bloody world cup...

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:40 pm

Well, I guess it’s appropriate...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5b3e0ef7e4b05127ccef8d35/amp

Never seen any of the films, don’t want to.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:39 pm

I ran into a very nice young Swedish couple today - the guy from Gävle in Norrland, the woman from Småland. We chatted in Swedish, best I could. The point is that both of them, wearing Swedish nationalist regalia, were very sad by the time we met. They're visiting the US for two weeks.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:14 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I ran into a very nice young Swedish couple today - the guy from Gävle in Norrland, the woman from Småland. We chatted in Swedish, best I could. The point is that both of them, wearing Swedish nationalist regalia, were very sad by the time we met. They're visiting the US for two weeks.


They will be welcomed with open arms. Those are the kind of visitors that certain people like.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:39 pm

But the reason they were sad is actually the same reason why Brits are deliriously happy, Russians are miserable - although Trump (I have heard) is saying that the officiating was very unfair - and Croatians are jumping for joy.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:05 pm

Since yesterday David Davis, Brexit secretary, his deputy, and Boris Johnson, UK foreign secretary have all resigned from May's cabinet. Leavers are leaving . . . although Boris' intentions are not entirely clear, eh.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Darren Wilshak » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:25 pm

Much loud singing of Its Coming Home has ensued. Driving me nuts. Had me heart set on Russia winning it an all. But it might not be World Cup Willie all over again anyway. That did seem important at the time but legend and myth have overtaken everything. Won't see Croatia Inglan on Weds as status update pending... ooops this isn't FB ;-)

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:15 pm

France.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balsamo » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:52 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:France.

:slapfight:

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:03 pm

LOL Now the Ustasha must, simply must do away with the Redcoats . . .
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:23 pm

The Ustasha score at 108 - making the score 2-1. I couldn't find the match on English TV and am watching a Spanish language broadcast. First Boris Johnson resigns, now this . . . :oops:
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:38 pm

The sun has set . . . fun match, IMO, Ustasha 2, the crumbled empire 1.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balsamo » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:51 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:The sun has set . . . fun match, IMO, Ustasha 2, the crumbled empire 1.


:slapfight:

My mother in law being English, i know have to console my dear wife, and will have to refrain from supporting Belgium on Friday too loudly...
Worse, i will have to support those Ustasha next Sunday...That is going to be difficult...Bloody English, they had the game until they just let go...
A final between the frogs eaters and the Brits would have had a nice symbolic...too sad.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:17 am

Oh no, I too am supporting the Ustasha, partly because Croatia is a small country and underdog, partly to troll my wife and her sympathy for France . . .
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:11 am

Interview with Adam Tooze (The Wages of Destruction: The Making and Breaking of the Nazi Economy) on the situation in Europe - and "elephants and mice."
I’m not very compelled by the populism argument.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:14 pm

The American president this morning told reporters about the sickening insight into Europe countries which he he'd gotten during the NATO summit:
Now what you have to understand is some of them have their own parliaments, their own Congresses, they have a lot of things to go through. . . .

Which is, you know, so unfair to America.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:04 am

Time to check in on Sweden's September elections and worry about the far right's progress again (change is from last tabulation):

Government (37% -1 pt)
Social Democrats 24% (-2 pts)
Left 9% (+1 pt)
Greens 4% (n/c)

Opposition Alliance (37% -4 pts)
Moderaterna 20% (-2 pts)
Liberals 5% (n/c)
Christian Democrats 3% (-1 pt)
Center 9% (-1 pt)

Sweden Democrats 22% (+4 pts)
Feminist Initiative 2% (n/c)

Undecided/? 2% (+1 pt)

Commentary focuses on the formerly neo-fascist Sweden Democrats possibly overtaking the Social Democrats, the country's longstanding largest party - that is, on the Sweden Democrats' recent gains and the Social Democrats' recent losses in polling support. The Sweden Democrats' rise is impressive and gaining - but a lot of the far-right party's support seems to be coming from the Opposition Alliance, which has dropped 4 pts since our last tabulation, not so much the government parties. Of the alliance parties, the Moderaterna have taken a position that they are willing to work with the Sweden Democrats.

Since January OTOH the Social Democrats have lost 4 pts, the Moderaterna have lost 2 pts, the Left has gained 2 pts . . . and the Sweden Democrats have gained 5 pts.

A number of recent polls have the Sweden Democrats in first place.

Baseline: in the 2014 election the Social Democrats got 31% of the vote and the Sweden Democrats just under 13%.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:19 pm

This is such a great picture of our Commander-in-Chief touching down in London:
Image
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:26 pm

I wish we could install the friggin' balloon in the presidency - we'd be better off.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:27 pm

I’m desperately trying to find a good picture of that to use as an avatar.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:51 pm

How Trump views the world and why it doesn’t work:
“I’m going to get a little wonky and write about Donald Trump and negotiations. For those who don't know, I'm an adjunct professor at Indiana University - Robert H. McKinney School of Law and I teach negotiations. Okay, here goes.

Trump, as most of us know, is the credited author of "The Art of the Deal," a book that was actually ghost written by a man named Tony Schwartz, who was given access to Trump and wrote based upon his observations. If you've read The Art of the Deal, or if you've followed Trump lately, you'll know, even if you didn't know the label, that he sees all dealmaking as what we call "distributive bargaining."

Distributive bargaining always has a winner and a loser. It happens when there is a fixed quantity of something and two sides are fighting over how it gets distributed. Think of it as a pie and you're fighting over who gets how many pieces. In Trump's world, the bargaining was for a building, or for construction work, or subcontractors. He perceives a successful bargain as one in which there is a winner and a loser, so if he pays less than the seller wants, he wins. The more he saves the more he wins.

The other type of bargaining is called integrative bargaining. In integrative bargaining the two sides don't have a complete conflict of interest, and it is possible to reach mutually beneficial agreements. Think of it, not a single pie to be divided by two hungry people, but as a baker and a caterer negotiating over how many pies will be baked at what prices, and the nature of their ongoing relationship after this one gig is over.

The problem with Trump is that he sees only distributive bargaining in an international world that requires integrative bargaining. He can raise tariffs, but so can other countries. He can't demand they not respond. There is no defined end to the negotiation and there is no simple winner and loser. There are always more pies to be baked. Further, negotiations aren't binary. China's choices aren't (a) buy soybeans from US farmers, or (b) don't buy soybeans. They can also (c) buy soybeans from Russia, or Argentina, or Brazil, or Canada, etc. That completely strips the distributive bargainer of his power to win or lose, to control the negotiation.

One of the risks of distributive bargaining is bad will. In a one-time distributive bargain, e.g. negotiating with the cabinet maker in your casino about whether you're going to pay his whole bill or demand a discount, you don't have to worry about your ongoing credibility or the next deal. If you do that to the cabinet maker, you can bet he won't agree to do the cabinets in your next casino, and you're going to have to find another cabinet maker.

There isn't another Canada.

So when you approach international negotiation, in a world as complex as ours, with integrated economies and multiple buyers and sellers, you simply must approach them through integrative bargaining. If you attempt distributive bargaining, success is impossible. And we see that already.

Trump has raised tariffs on China. China responded, in addition to raising tariffs on US goods, by dropping all its soybean orders from the US and buying them from Russia. The effect is not only to cause tremendous harm to US farmers, but also to increase Russian revenue, making Russia less susceptible to sanctions and boycotts, increasing its economic and political power in the world, and reducing ours. Trump saw steel and aluminum and thought it would be an easy win, BECAUSE HE SAW ONLY STEEL AND ALUMINUM - HE SEES EVERY NEGOTIATION AS DISTRIBUTIVE. China saw it as integrative, and integrated Russia and its soybean purchase orders into a far more complex negotiation ecosystem.

Trump has the same weakness politically. For every winner there must be a loser. And that's just not how politics works, not over the long run.

For people who study negotiations, this is incredibly basic stuff, negotiations 101, definitions you learn before you even start talking about styles and tactics. And here's another huge problem for us.

Trump is utterly convinced that his experience in a closely held real estate company has prepared him to run a nation, and therefore he rejects the advice of people who spent entire careers studying the nuances of international negotiations and diplomacy. But the leaders on the other side of the table have not eschewed expertise, they have embraced it. And that means they look at Trump and, given his very limited tool chest and his blindly distributive understanding of negotiation, they know exactly what he is going to do and exactly how to respond to it.

From a professional negotiation point of view, Trump isn't even bringing checkers to a chess match. He's bringing a quarter that he insists of flipping for heads or tails, while everybody else is studying the chess board to decide whether its better to open with Najdorf or Grünfeld.”

— David Honig

I posted the link in the Trump thread.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:02 am

Along with Trump’s making comments to The Sun and later in his press conference with T May echoing WN themes (the great replacement), the US administration has recently taken up the cause - via religious liberty ambassador Brownback - of English Defense League founder Tommy Robinson. Robinson is currently serving a 1 year jail sentence in the UK. Presumably the Trump administration views details of Robinson's incarceration as religious persecution.

From Reuters:
A spokesman for Hope Not Hate, a British anti-racism group, said, “In the week President Trump comes to the UK, his hand-picked diplomat allying himself with a far-right convicted fraudster perhaps shouldn’t be too much of a shock.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1K331J

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tr ... ght-figure
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:13 pm

The reception which the British (god bless them, or at least the top 77% of them) gave Trump this weekend falls somewhere on the welcoming scale between the reception given the Führer received by the Soviets after Barbarossa and the welcome given him by Poles on Hitler's entering Poland in '39 - but nowhere near as friendly as the the generous French welcome - what with Vichy, Laval, and all - given Hitler. But the Brits were a lot funnier about it, although I wouldn't push them too far if I were Donald.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:16 pm

"God save the Queen
From the fascist tangerine."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC4RFY8vtuM
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby landrew » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:14 pm

Anyone who watched Trump on The Apprentice with much regularity saw in him a great affinity towards people with corrosive personalities, and much animosity towards the decent types who showed good character and integrity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urReg9O6MwA
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:19 pm

critical piece on the 4 approaches of European conservative parties to populist-nationalist challenges:

1) "The first approach is to try to ignore the populist radical right — and even treat it as some kind of pariah" (e.g., CDU in Germany, Moderaterna in Sweden - although Moderaterna have recently switched to or flirted with approach 3)
2) "The second approach taken by the center-right is to toughen its stance on migration and multiculturalism, promising to make life more difficult both for those who want to come to the country and for those who’ve already made it." (e.g., Netherlands, Denmark, UK)
3) "The third approach takes this kind of support arrangement to the next level [to] full-blown coalition with populist radical-right parties, at least partly in the hope that doing so would expose the latter as blowhards incapable of delivering on their ramped-up rhetoric." (e.g., Austria, Italy)
4) "The fourth and last approach is the most radical of all. Rather than trying to isolate, borrow from or govern together with a populist radical-right insurgency, a center-right party actually turns itself into one." (e.g., Hungary)

The author concludes, "So, trying to beat a radical right-wing populist insurgency by becoming one — or for that matter, by adopting its agenda and even inviting it into government — turns out to be a fool’s errand." He fails to outline the better approach, however.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:17 pm

No, seriously, for real, today is the day when President Trump finally became presidential.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:25 pm

The more I see Trump and Putin together the more convinced I am that the pee tape is real.
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:41 pm

Especially when Putin blatantly declines a chance to answer Jonathan Lemire about whether Russia has dirt on Trump.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:22 pm

Well, Putin says he didn’t do it. OK, I guess that settles everything. Nothing to see here, move along......
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:35 pm

"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balsamo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:33 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:critical piece on the 4 approaches of European conservative parties to populist-nationalist challenges:

1) "The first approach is to try to ignore the populist radical right — and even treat it as some kind of pariah" (e.g., CDU in Germany, Moderaterna in Sweden - although Moderaterna have recently switched to or flirted with approach 3)
2) "The second approach taken by the center-right is to toughen its stance on migration and multiculturalism, promising to make life more difficult both for those who want to come to the country and for those who’ve already made it." (e.g., Netherlands, Denmark, UK)
3) "The third approach takes this kind of support arrangement to the next level [to] full-blown coalition with populist radical-right parties, at least partly in the hope that doing so would expose the latter as blowhards incapable of delivering on their ramped-up rhetoric." (e.g., Austria, Italy)
4) "The fourth and last approach is the most radical of all. Rather than trying to isolate, borrow from or govern together with a populist radical-right insurgency, a center-right party actually turns itself into one." (e.g., Hungary)

The author concludes, "So, trying to beat a radical right-wing populist insurgency by becoming one — or for that matter, by adopting its agenda and even inviting it into government — turns out to be a fool’s errand." He fails to outline the better approach, however.



Thanks for this great post.
The article is right none of those approach really worked at the end of the day. But if i may add, the reason of this failure is a little bit more complex. Actually, one thing that is not mentioned in the article, is that the main reason for the failure is that all of those approaches have been tried successively in all countries mentioned in the article. And it in this succession that lies the reason of the failure.

Approach number 1: was the obvious reaction adopted in every single European countries i followed, and in some countries is still followed. It started, depending the country, in the late 80's and the 90's. It was called " cordon sanitaire" ( same in English i think) in Belgium, or "Front Republicain" in France, that is a huge coalition of every democratic parties in order to prevent FN candidate from being elected.

The problem of this approach reside, besides its kind of "undemocratic" nature, in that the populist parties are allowed to stay clean from any scandal that could result form exercising responsibilities. The second mistake was that while this approach was the chosen one, the same "cordon sanitaire" was established on the political reasons why people actually voted for those far right parties.
So while, back them, an adoption of the approach number 2 could have produced results, not only were the issues ignored with disdain and buried, the people were sermonized with condescension, distilling the notion that only the "Elite" knew, while the people (and voters) were basically ignorant. So at the same time, the poor people had to be educated not to vote for the wrong party.

It could have worked though, had the "democratic Parties" been clean and trustworthy, but to take the example of Belgium got struck in financial scandals that reinforced the image of those populist parties pf being "at least" clean.

The best known example is the case of Italy, with the famous operation " Mani Pulite" (clean hands) led by some judge that completely destroyed the traditional post war "democratic parties" and which opened the Berlusconi era.

For those reason, this approach was doomed to fail.

In most case, as i wrote, the second approached replaced the first one. And because of that, it was perceived and exploited by the populist parties to claim " You all see, We were right". Gone was the "pedagogic approach" and the "sermons of civicism", but this change was rather more rhetorical than practical, and for the people nothing really changed. And it is because only the discourses changed, that the second approach actually gave credit to the populist parties that could pretend to be the "only ones" who could actually lead such a policy, of course, given that the pertinence of the "policy" was recognized through the democratic parties speeches, there were no longer anything wrong with it.

this trend was clearly observable in France, with soon to become president Chirac recognizing publicly the "problem" of having "numerous, noisy and smelly Muslim neighbors living without working on social benefits" - that was around 1991 - but become official policy under president Sarkozy - and back then it quite hurt the Front National quite a lot even if only momentarily.


The third approach is what we are seeing now, and given that it follows the first two approaches, has turned counter-productive, as just for the same reason that approach 2 failed because it succeeded to approach 1, approach 3 succeeds to approach 2. At this stage, it basically gives those "populist" parties were in fine given a greater public recognition of their positions.

Then we have the fourth approach, and it is effectively the case, not only in Hungary, which then appears as the "only" way but then again, only because we started with approach 1, then 2, then 3.

But this is valid only in a purely political perspective.
So in this political perspective, results might have been different if we actually started with approach 3, that is neutralizing those populist politicians by offering them, at least, local responsibilities while the democrats would only kind of control their action using constitutional rights, law, etc.

Approach 2 would have been made easier and prevent abuse. It is now agreed that things had to be changed, but by starting to let those dickheads - who most had absolutely no solution to propose - some responsibilities, while the majority of the population were still attached to the natural democratic values, those parties would have lost a lot of credibility.

The big mistake was to start with the approach 1 while well handled this approach could have been successful as approach number 4.

But then, it would be a mistake to reduce the problematic to just an "immigration" crisis. There a many and many elements that contributed to the current situation, too many today. To give only the most obvious: the constant degradation of the standards of living, the lack of future (that includes, the absence of a vision for the future, an absence of a common social project), the constant peeling of social rights and social welfare the previous generation fought so hard for, the abandon of the core democratic values which in the end changed and corrupted the "spirit of the people" if you know what i mean by that.

To be continued.
Last edited by Balsamo on Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:33 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:The more I see Trump and Putin together the more convinced I am that the pee tape is real.


I am uncertian as to whether there is a piss tape in the most classic sense of the term but they definitly accumulated compromising information. Its just a standard FSB strategy for any high profile visitor.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:34 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:The more I see Trump and Putin together the more convinced I am that the pee tape is real.


I am uncertian as to whether there is a piss tape in the most classic sense of the term but they definitly accumulated compromising information. Its just a standard FSB strategy for any high profile visitor.



Yup.
Welcome back...
A joke going around Moscow during The Great Terror:

The NKVD knocks on a door.
The inhabitants ask who it is.
“NKVD.”
“You’ve got the wrong apartment. The Communists are upstairs.”

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:41 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:The more I see Trump and Putin together the more convinced I am that the pee tape is real.


I am uncertian as to whether there is a piss tape in the most classic sense of the term but they definitly accumulated compromising information. Its just a standard FSB strategy for any high profile visitor.



Yup.
Welcome back...


I will never "leave" in the classic sense. Its just that working 9-5 has left me with a bit less time on my hands.

I could take up an essay on this but I will be succinct: this is the hour of decision for the GOP. Here is where they will get to choose once and for all whether they are a legitimate center-right political party (like the UK or Canadian Tories, the Aussie liberals or the German CDU) or a north american clone of the Rassemblement Nationale or AfD. Whatever choice they make will be final and everything we have seen in the past two years points to the latter unfortunately.


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