Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

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Balsamo
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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Balsamo » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:35 am

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:LOL (although for Macron the lyrics need a tweak - jokers on his far right, stuck to the right with Macron . . . )


Macron is too socially liberal to be a total creature of the right. Recall that he was savaged by the mainstream right for his comment of Algeria. However, economically he is most assuredly right-wing in every way. I have mixed feelings on the man but I hope his loss will not be Le Pen or Melenchon's gain.


Precisely Jeff, the "comment on Algeria" is the perfect illustration of what i meant. The traditional right did not liked it, and felt hurt, the far right lost their nerves. Macron knew very well what he was doing. What he wants is to break the traditional "values" of both sides. The attempt is aimed to discredit those same values, to break them in order to make room for a new way of doing politics, more the "American way (democrats)", which is by all standard more right than any traditional "right" political parties in continental Europe. Continental Europe is in the tradition of the Social democracy, and within this frame, there is right and a left.
Macron deams himself in becoming a French Barack Obama and to turn France into a full liberal economy as in the USA.

Consider it as the ultimate offensive to achieve full globalization. This is what today EU is trying to achieve for Europe.

I know that most of you are Americans, and therefore are probably considering that it is a good option ( although i doubt regarding Statmec), but it is not what the European wants, hence the slide.
Keep in mind that compare to any continental European system, the USA are at the right of the far right on domains like the Economy, Social Wellfare, Health system, etc.
To turn the EU, and France, into a European form of USA is the dream of Macron and his supports.

And i hope it will never happen, and if we have to get through a Melanchon experiment, i would chose the latest.

As a side note, i really thank the American people, Trump has been more effective to break down the far right movements progressions across Europe than anything that had been attempted before. Thanks Donny, continue the good job.
A couple of month ago, the AfD in Germany was expected to blow into the Bundestag, with around 20%, they are now back to the lowest teen.
Marine Le Pen, is probably regretting having been the first to congratulate Donny for his election.
By turning the White House into a flying circus, Trump brought on them the worst hangover the European far right has ever known.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:46 pm

Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:20 pm


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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Balsamo » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I'm not making this up



Yeah...almost died laughing this morning when it came to me.
Big question: who will be kicked out from presidency Dummy Trump or the "little Jupetarian princess"?

Even Boy Georges does not match this.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeff_36 » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:17 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I'm not making this up


How is that even possible? Honestly, if I were to ever go into politics, I would never wear makeup. I'm not some chick.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Balsamo » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:13 pm

The downfall continue for our "little Marques", beating all previous record.
President Macron sits now well into negative territory.
Asked if they were "very satisfied", "rather satisfied" or "rather dissatisfied" or "very unsatisfied",
- only 4% declared to be "VERY SATISFIED"
- 36% "RATHER SATISFIED"
TOTAL 40% ( at the same time, President Hollande still had an approval rating of 52% while President Sarkozy still enjoyed 64%)

On the other side:
- 20% declared to be "VERY unsatisfied"
- 37% "RATHER Unsatisfied".

(3% have no opinion.)


To the question " Who does represent the best opposition?"
- 59% answered Jean-Luc Melanchon
He is followed by Marine Le PEN

The opposition between "Pro-System" vs "anti-System" is confirmed.
Given that Macron has not even started to try passing any important reform, the end of holidays is going to be hot in France

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:04 pm

Balsamo wrote:The downfall continue for our "little Marques", beating all previous record.
President Macron sits now well into negative territory.
Asked if they were "very satisfied", "rather satisfied" or "rather dissatisfied" or "very unsatisfied",
- only 4% declared to be "VERY SATISFIED"
- 36% "RATHER SATISFIED"
TOTAL 40% ( at the same time, President Hollande still had an approval rating of 52% while President Sarkozy still enjoyed 64%)

On the other side:
- 20% declared to be "VERY unsatisfied"
- 37% "RATHER Unsatisfied".

(3% have no opinion.)


To the question " Who does represent the best opposition?"
- 59% answered Jean-Luc Melanchon
He is followed by Marine Le PEN

The opposition between "Pro-System" vs "anti-System" is confirmed.
Given that Macron has not even started to try passing any important reform, the end of holidays is going to be hot in France


I hope that the French people will learn to accept the inevitable here - Macron may be a wastrel, but the alternative (Melanchon's Bela Kun-esque "Workers Paradise" or Le troiseme Reich de le pen) is sooooooo much worse.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Balsamo » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:10 pm

I could agree with you, Jeff.

But in the end, we also have to get out from this "intellectual dishonesty" based on the assumption that the Liberal Model we are following is the ONLY way to go. If those in charge does not realize this, well then individuals like Melanchon or Le Pen - the latest being the worst case scenario - will force them to reassess their original convictions, assuming those in charge have any conviction left.

I already wrote about that, but i'll repeat it here. It is not a matter of choosing between Capitalism vs Communism, Liberalism vs collectivism. It is a matter of addressing what is fundamentally wrong in the way things go today. Capitalism was not always this nasty thing it is today, there was times when States did address the problems of inequality and had the powers and the will to do so. When Wealth used to be concentrated into the hands of too few, the State step in and raise taxes in an effort of redistributing this wealth. It happened many times, even in the USA, no matter if a Republican o a Democrat sat at the White House.

European History clearly shows that political Revolution are never motivated by ideology, that is at the popular level - so i am excluding the philosophers and the leaders political theories (most of the common people don't care).
A Revolution basically take place when three conditions are fulfilled at a same time:

1. Economic and social inequality is at a all-time high
2. The State has lost the mean to do anything about the situation - most of the time because it is bankrupt so it cannot address the real issues.
1789 in France was not so much because of the Enlightenment, but because the Kingdom was very populated (almost 30 million inhabitants) and suffered - we would have called because of climate change - three consecutive years (starting in 1786) of poor harvests which naturally condemned 2 millions or so to starve. The Kingdom had also a public debt comparable to the one France has now (because they actually paid the US independence, something France could not afford).
3. and this is essential, when the Elite (social, economical or political (religious) are blind to the above realities, whether because their are philosophically blind or economically too involved in the current system, etc.
This third point being resumed in "When the Social contract" is broken.

Today's Elites have completely forgotten what should be their classics about the "Contrat Social", i translate it into "Social Contract", but maybe there is a more appropriate expression in English.

The social link, assuring the stability of any society, is this contract. People will be loyal to any kind of Regime as long as this Regime takes care of their problems, worries, fears... When the contract is broke, Revolution takes place and people can get rid of Monarchies, Dictatorships, and...democracies.
This is because of the false believe that a "democracy" is such a natural organization for any society, that it becomes "immortal". Democracy is viewed in a Darwinist perspective, as the ultimate "social organization". This is a false premise.

Melanchon or Le Pen are just symptoms, they personally don't really matter. The issue is why a majority is sensitive to the message of each of them. This what the current Elite should pay attention to. But it seems they don't. They sincerely believe that "our way of life" is kind of a "Natural State", that it cannot be changed because it is the only way to go. This is what the point 3./ above is all about. And usually, it is because of this point 3./ that a Regime gets point 1 and 2.

And if a wake-up call does not ring soon, even I-phones won't prevent the people to really get pissed. A when an entire people get pissed, it is no longer time to think or to talk it out.

All this because i don't think the French people is going to accept this "70 years old" "INEVITABLE", and frankly there is no such thing as "inevitable".
Nothing is inevitable and nothing should be taken for granted.
The city of Rome under Julius Cesar had over 1.5 million inhabitants...6 century later it had like 40.000...
Actually, Humankind will have to wait to the XIXth or the XXth century to see a city of over 1.000.000 again. ( not related to the post but i like the perspective it forces, )

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:09 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:I hope that the French people will learn to accept the inevitable here - Macron may be a wastrel, but the alternative (Melanchon's Bela Kun-esque "Workers Paradise" or Le troiseme Reich de le pen) is sooooooo much worse.

two cheers for the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:43 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeff_36 wrote:I hope that the French people will learn to accept the inevitable here - Macron may be a wastrel, but the alternative (Melanchon's Bela Kun-esque "Workers Paradise" or Le troiseme Reich de le pen) is sooooooo much worse.

two cheers for the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie


I would take a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie over a dictatorship of the proletariat. History has shown us that the latter is infinitely worse. And yes, I consider Nazisim to be a dictatorship of the proletariat in a way.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:46 am

Nazism is not a dictatorship of the proletariat by any definition I can think of. My point is that Balsamo is right that Macron's program is foundering - I meant to emphasize one of the reasons why. And, FSS, can't we have an end to the dictatorships, including that of the corporations?
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeff_36 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:34 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:FSS, can't we have an end to the dictatorships, including that of the corporations?


In a perfect world, yes. However, sometimes we are forced to chose between unlikable options.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:07 pm

I would choose Melanchon knowing that he is not like Bela Kun and not likely to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat. :) More to the point, his actual, specific criticisms of Macron's labor proposals are ones I share.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:59 pm

I found it interesting:

- Six months into his presidency, that spirit of forgiveness is gone: Far from being irrelevant, rivals say Macron’s apparent disdain for the public has a long-term, and potentially major, impact on his reform plans.
http://www.politico.eu/article/emmanuel ... e-problem/

Macron’s approval scores have fallen by a third since election day, and the rot shows no sign of stopping.

His chief political rival, the far-left firebrand Jean-Luc Mélenchon, is getting ready to stage massive protests against Macron’s labor reforms this weekend. And the president, instead of reaching out to the protesters, is enraging them with quips about “slackers,” “people who are nothing” and their “unreformable country.”

Confronted by a journalist about the use of the term “slackers,” Macron said he “absolutely did not regret” it.

For many Macron supporters, his choice of words — coupled with liberal economic reforms — is puzzling, if not downright infuriating. Is this the same man who vowed to unify France behind his La République en Marche (LRM) centrist movement, and who campaigned for greater “protection” for all French people?
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Balsamo » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:26 pm

The Jupiterian President just failed to get a majority at the French Senate...yet another historical event for a recently elected president...
I bet he will not finish his mandate...
But this election is based on the vote of "grand elector" among the ones already elected in the various regions.
Anyway, the President will be able to rely on 27 Senators...That will calm things down.
A big blow to Macron though...

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Balsamo » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:13 am

Meanwhile in Germany,
yet another disaster for the polls.
Merkel's CDU get only around 33% (vs 36-38% in the Polls) and the SDP falls into the abyss with a small 20%...
The AfD does much better than expected, led by a Lesbian in couple with a woman form Sri Lanka if i got it right (so Nationalist maybe, but not particularly racist or homophobe), again much better than the polls with 13%. I did not expect that.
Die Linke is behind with 9%, while the Liberals (European definition) of the FDP as well as the Green Party will both enter the Congress...the FDP realizes its best performance in decades with around 10% ( i suspect many voters coming from the CDU)...

The real Bad news is that the SDP - which realized that to govern in the shadow of Merkel does not make it any good - declared that it will no longer participate to the government...that will create quite a mess...he challenge will be to conciliate the Green and the FDP, which won't be easy...
I personally hole that the SDP will pay for this.

Nevertheless, compared to what have taken place in other country, there is not much to worry about in a purely German's perspective, but things will get complicate at the EU level, given the context of the Brexit...

Sorry not much time tonight...

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:27 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I would choose Melanchon knowing that he is not like Bela Kun and not likely to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat. :) More to the point, his actual, specific criticisms of Macron's labor proposals are ones I share.


He is closer to Kun than to Bernie Sanders - recall that he was Trotskyite at one point, is an unreconstructed admirer of Hugo Chavez, and an apologist for Nicolas Maduro. Vile vile vile vile vile.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:35 pm

Is he calling for an armed overthrow of the republic and establishment of a dictatorship of the communists? I am not aware that he is. That he is no longer a Trotskyist is a point in his favor :) I prefer thinking about what he is saying and what people are responding to - to tossing around scare adjectives like "unreconstructed."

Like you said, you don't always get what you want - in the context, I prefer what I know he's advocating for - over the program Napoleon of the Banks.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:56 pm

Well this was entirely unexpected. Evidently there have been tensions in the AfD between Petry and Jorg Meuthen for some time, with the former advocating entry into a coalition government with the CDU and the latter insisting that the AfD act as an opposition party.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:03 pm

I suggest either setting up a European politics thread or keeping Germany discussion in the Trump thread, which is really about politics and to some extent right wing populism in our times and where it started (broadening the Trump thread would make it more relevant, whereas this thread started as France '42!?!?!?!). I actually thought some time ago about asking Pyrrho to split off the Macron discussion from the France '42 beginning of this thread and create a European politics thread, which is another idea. But we'd started discussing Germany in the Trump thread . . .
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeff_36 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:06 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I suggest either setting up a European politics thread or keeping Germany discussion in the Trump thread, which is really about politics and to some extent right wing populism in our times and where it started (broadening the Trump thread would make it more relevant, whereas this thread started as France '42!?!?!?!). I actually thought some time ago about asking Pyrrho to split off the Macron discussion from the France '42 beginning of this thread and create a European politics thread, which is another idea. But we'd started discussing Germany in the Trump thread . . .


Apologies. I generally haven't been contributing to the Trump thread lately out of frustration at the illogical stupidity of the GOP, and as a result was unaware of the Germany discussion.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Balsamo » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:19 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:FSS, can't we have an end to the dictatorships, including that of the corporations?


In a perfect world, yes. However, sometimes we are forced to chose between unlikable options.


I have never understood this fatalistic attitude that considers that "Yes, the world we live in is not perfect, but it could have been worse", like if a human society was a kind of natural phenomenon.
Of course, one can argue that a society, being a human organization, will never be perfect; but there is no reason not trying to make it the best possible for the greater number, which is what a democracy should seek.

As i have written many times, "our days" are among the most outrageously unequal ever, social rights that have been fought for are being destroyed one by one at a rhythm unseen before, all this because an economic dogma - developed in the late 70's and 80's - has been imposed internationally.

People do not vote for Melanchon for what he is, or might be, but because in the loud silence of other politicians, he is one of the few who does not agree with this fatality. They do not vote for him because they would be tempted by any form of socialist dictatorship, most just want to try to correct the path that leads to a social nightmare for the sole profit of so few.
You should really listen to one of his speech.

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:30 pm

Jeff_36 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:I suggest either setting up a European politics thread or keeping Germany discussion in the Trump thread, which is really about politics and to some extent right wing populism in our times and where it started (broadening the Trump thread would make it more relevant, whereas this thread started as France '42!?!?!?!). I actually thought some time ago about asking Pyrrho to split off the Macron discussion from the France '42 beginning of this thread and create a European politics thread, which is another idea. But we'd started discussing Germany in the Trump thread . . .


Apologies. I generally haven't been contributing to the Trump thread lately out of frustration at the illogical stupidity of the GOP, and as a result was unaware of the Germany discussion.

No reason to apologize! I was just making a suggestion . . . here, in Trump, or a European politics thread? What think you?
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Balsamo » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:12 pm

I think the Trump thread is too active, and things related to other subjects would get lost in there.
A new thread on European politics could be an idea or keeping this one - as David is no longer around - is another option.
And given the situation in some European countries the "& beyond" kind of makes the link...

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:14 am

Had a request to split this topic. I might do that but it's a bit late here. Maybe in the morning.
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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:20 am

We're all gettin Pyrrotechical in heeere!

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Re: France '42-'44: La Grande Rafle & beyond

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:46 pm

:shock:

Locking temporarily while I screw this up.
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Pyrrho » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:02 am

Okay...looks like that worked.

:posting:
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:50 am

Thank you! This already looks a lot better :)
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:30 pm

Brexit update: T May plagued by persistent Clintonian Coughing Spasms - and much else - in key speech to rescue her PM-ship
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:03 am

Can we get one of these in the US, we need one? Marina Hyde on T May and the Tory gabfest
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:45 pm

Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeff_36 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:22 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Can we get one of these in the US, we need one? Marina Hyde on T May and the Tory gabfest


I had high hopes for May - I thought she would be true One Nation Tory like Disraeli. She has well and truly {!#%@} everything up. However, make no mistake, she is infinitely preferable to Corbyn - which has nothing to do with her and everything to do with him.

Brexit, all things told, will have a negative impact on the UK for a generation.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:53 am

T May has - how shall I put this? - met, then exceeded expectations.
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeff_36 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:35 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:T May has - how shall I put this? - met, then exceeded expectations.


She took a 20 point lead and basically ate it. A {!#%@} like that is hard to accomplish.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Gord » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:59 am

I enjoyed her coughing speech. Especially when the letter F fell off the wall behind her. I want to make a joke about "F off" but I can't think of one.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:32 am

Gord wrote:I enjoyed her coughing speech. Especially when the letter F fell off the wall behind her. I want to make a joke about "F off" but I can't think of one.

Jimmy Kimmel did:

Image

Image

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-sBE5YyoTE)
Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:16 pm

Nazism conspired to create a sense of festival time. . . . Tragically for humanity, the party generating it was the type not associated with the coloured costumes of the Brazilian Carnival, but with the brown-shirted thuggery of the NSDAP. The contrast between the dance and the march, between the samba and the strains of the Horst Wessel Lied, points to the gulf separating a life-asserting community from a community which exists only by creating a demonized other. - RG '97

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:47 pm

Nice to know the sickness the US has isn't confined here.

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Re: Populism and Nationalism in Europe Today

Postby Balsamo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:56 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Austrian snap election


According to the result i received,
The OVP (Conservative) got 30.2% as forecasted, but the FPO (Far right) got their best score since 1999 and is second with 26.8%, the SPO (left) fell to 26.3%.

EDIT: Last projection from Austrian TV:
OVP : 31.6% (+7.7)
SPO: 26.8% (+0)
FPO: 26% (+5.5)
Grune (green Party (the president) : 3.9% (-8.6)

Results can change when Vienna unfold


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