Documentaries

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
User avatar
Balsamo
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Documentaries

Postby Balsamo » Wed May 31, 2017 1:08 am

Interresting video indeed,

It's indeed disturbing to observe that the "american peace" or "pax americana" promoted in the video - if it had of course "reduce the number of casualties of war" - has broken every record of civilians dying during peacetime: It would be very interesting if the video would put in charts the human beings dying from hunger each year for example.
A child is dying from hunger every 6 seconds...while the the world wealth has never been that high, or so we are told... Adding those data would add an additional nice perspective...

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:21 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I watched the documentary "Nazi Concentration Camps" on Netflix yesterday.
American occupation forces documented the various concentration camps as they liberated them, this movie is the result.
They talked about the following:
Hadamar (not a concentration camp)
Leipzig (camp near the town)
Penig (camp near the town)
Ohrdruff (Patton and Eisenhower documented as examining) One interesting thing documented is a grill system used to burn bodies. It's amazing how prevalent this system of burning was.
Breendonck in Belgium
Hanover
Nordhausen
Belsen
Dachau (gas chamber shown and demonstrated)
Mauthausen
Buchenwald

The images of corpses and starving prisoners still burn. Victims showed the results of torture. A US officer testified on camera about the existence of a gas chamber at Mauthausen. I know we've discussed this bit before.

There were obvious issues with this, camps were described as "death camps," a misconception understandable at the time.
I was reluctant to watch this, but, it was not bad. If nothing else it showed the conditions in the camps at the end of the war.



Night Will Fall also mentions the grill system to burn bodies.

User avatar
Denying-History
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: Documentaries

Postby Denying-History » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:49 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I watched the documentary "Nazi Concentration Camps" on Netflix yesterday.
American occupation forces documented the various concentration camps as they liberated them, this movie is the result.
They talked about the following:
Hadamar (not a concentration camp)
Leipzig (camp near the town)
Penig (camp near the town)
Ohrdruff (Patton and Eisenhower documented as examining) One interesting thing documented is a grill system used to burn bodies. It's amazing how prevalent this system of burning was.
Breendonck in Belgium
Hanover
Nordhausen
Belsen
Dachau (gas chamber shown and demonstrated)
Mauthausen
Buchenwald

The images of corpses and starving prisoners still burn. Victims showed the results of torture. A US officer testified on camera about the existence of a gas chamber at Mauthausen. I know we've discussed this bit before.

There were obvious issues with this, camps were described as "death camps," a misconception understandable at the time.
I was reluctant to watch this, but, it was not bad. If nothing else it showed the conditions in the camps at the end of the war.



Night Will Fall also mentions the grill system to burn bodies.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Mca34lwgM
« Lies written in ink cannot disguise facts written in blood. »
- Lu Xun

User avatar
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion
Poster
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Documentaries

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:12 pm

Misplaced recordings of Holocaust survivors singing melodies and recounting their pasts have resurfaced at the University of Akron. The recordings were made by David Boder, a psychologist from Chicago, who visited former prisoners and recorded their songs on a newly rediscovered reel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3V83GdHYNA
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29440
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: Documentaries

Postby Gord » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:26 am

I just found this video. Not a documentary exactly, just a quick examination of Witold Pilecki:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3qHnfxQmKk
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
Upton_O_Goode
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2742
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:15 am
Custom Title: Dear [Salutation][First Name]
Location: The Land Formerly Known as Pangea

Re: Documentaries

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:25 pm

I have just begun watching Un village français on DVD. It's a multi-part series based in a small village called Villeneuve and covers the period from June 1940 to the war's end in 1945. I had hoped to practice my French comprehension with it, but it is subtitled, and my eye refuses to resist the subtitles. Just as well, perhaps, as the French is very authentic, spoken rapidly and not enunciated distinctly, which further handicaps me in addition to the hearing aids I have to wear to be sure of understanding even what my wife is saying to me.

Anyway, the main characters are laid out in the part I just watched. One of them is a prosperous businessman, Monsieur Schwartz. Just as in America, that name tips the viewer off that he's probably Jewish and is going to have trouble. By the end of Episode 1, the Germans are requisitioning his spacious house for military use. Schwartz has a crew of Spaniards working for him, and the foreman of the group is a Communist organizer. The local French police and the French security service appear at the beginning, looking for the source of Communist propaganda, and finding it in Schwartz's mill. I suspect the Security guy is going to stay around and collaborate with the Nazis (the local policeman tells him that, given the occupation that is beginning, it is not worthwhile to hunt for Communists), and that some of Schwartz's friends and neighbors are likely to turn against him, so it's going to be tense. The first episode is mostly get-acquainted with the characters, amid incredible chaos. But it looks like it will be interesting.
"Reserve a part of your wrath ; you have not seen the worst yet. You suppose that this war has been a criminal blunder and an exceptional horror ; you imagine that before long reason will prevail, and all these inferior people that govern the world will be swept aside, and your own party will reform everything and remain always in office. You are mistaken."

George Santayana, "Tipperary" (1918)

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:59 pm

I'm shifting this here:
http://m.zumvo.me/watch-film-unfinished-2010-4347

From Upton's thread, BBC documentary.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:50 pm

Someone just sent me this, it's some footage of the liberation of Dachau, there's no sound.
https://www.facebook.com/ShoahSocialArchive/videos/1760683297279940/

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:57 pm


User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:03 am

Much as my wife and I have not liked anything by Ken Burns, we've decided to watch his 18-hour Vietnam documentary on PBS. For some of us here (ahem, the old folks), that war touches us in different but intensely personal ways.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:20 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Much as my wife and I have not liked anything by Ken Burns, we've decided to watch his 18-hour Vietnam documentary on PBS. For some of us here (ahem, the old folks), that war touches us in different but intensely personal ways.



I've got it set up on my DVR. I won't watch it until it's done, then I'll binge watch it.

I went through a period where I studied the Vietnam War to the exclusion of everything else. One of the best books on it is Vietnam: A History by Stanley Karnow, another is a A Bright Shining Lie by Neil Sheehan. The Karnow book is based on a PBS Documentary, I've never seen it.

I'll probably revisit the period when I get a chance but it will have to wait.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:22 am

Part one was actually decent.

Of course, being active in the antiwar movement, I read books, magazines, pamphlets, reports - everything I could get my hands on. I read government position papers, US military publications, Vietnamese publications, peace studies material, GI produced brochures and stuff, religiously oriented material, teach-in stuff, and on and on. I knew or met people like Dave Dellinger (Fifth Avenue Vietnam Peace Parade and Chicago 7) and the Berrigans, David Horowitz (yes, he started out antiwar!), Michael Klare (I knew him very well), and then some really radical folks like Dave Blalock (VVAW) and David Fine (chilling memories of that dude). I cheered wildly when LBJ decided against running for president in '68, watched war footage on nightly news, threw things at the TV when Nixon and Kissinger spoke, commiserated with close friends who served and came home to rabble-rousers like me trying to stop the war :) I got my ass tossed in jail during Mayday '71 - and won a lawsuit against the government for violating my rights in arresting and holding me (I actually received real cash money!).

As an undergrad I studied Vietnamese history one year (reading David Marr, Joseph Buttinger, Paul Mus, and many other authors), focusing mostly on the long, rich history of Vietnamese anti colonialism. Still later I read just about every work of fiction on the war I could find - my favorites being Tom Suddick's A Few Good Men and Tim O'Brien's Going After Cacciato. I think I have these right, it was a long time ago.

Without giving anything away, I will say that Burns' approach to his audience is to allow his interview subjects to have their say (with people you haven't heard of, from many diverse pov's), so that very different voices and perspectives are presented; part one, which dealt with anti colonialism, was very focused on Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh, to the exclusion of deep anti colonial background and almost nothing on the sociology of the Vietnamese countryside, about which Paul Mus wrote so well. But the first part is worth watching and includes some stuff that is quite informative along with a lot of stuff that isn't commonly known or appreciated.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4527
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm
Location: At the hundredth meridian, where the great plains begin

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeff_36 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:34 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Much as my wife and I have not liked anything by Ken Burns, we've decided to watch his 18-hour Vietnam documentary on PBS. For some of us here (ahem, the old folks), that war touches us in different but intensely personal ways.


I have been watching it and I really like what I see. Good Lord the footage of the Hanoi March was hard to watch.........

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:57 am

The material on the inside decision making in Hanoi and Washington is very good. The tapes of LBJ's phone calls show those calls to have been exactly as one imagined them. The Hanoi stuff, not so much, he's got material that we didn't know about in the '60s.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4527
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm
Location: At the hundredth meridian, where the great plains begin

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeff_36 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:14 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Without giving anything away, I will say that Burns' approach to his audience is to allow his interview subjects to have their say (with people you haven't heard of, from many diverse pov's), so that very different voices and perspectives are presented; part one, which dealt with anti colonialism, was very focused on Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh, to the exclusion of deep anti colonial background and almost nothing on the sociology of the Vietnamese countryside, about which Paul Mus wrote so well. But the first part is worth watching and includes some stuff that is quite informative along with a lot of stuff that isn't commonly known or appreciated.


A few observations on parts 1-4

1. I was always aware that Ho was much more of a Nationalist than a Communist, but I was of the opinion that Giap was the same. Evidently Giap was much more of a doctrinaire Marxist than Ho - the dynamic between the two is strikingly similar to that of Castro and Guevara for those of you who have read heavily into the Cuban Revolution.

2. The discussion of the War between the French and the Viet Minh lacked detail, but I understood that brevity was needed. For example, the critical role of Jean de Lattre de Tassigny was never touched upon (even though he he was shown in archival footage several times). De Tassigny had been one of the finest Free French generals of the Second World War and as commander of the French troops in Indochina he absolutely dominated Giap's Viet Minh in multiple engagement, inflicting huge casualties. It was only after De Tassigny fell terminally ill and had to return to France that Giap started raking up major victories. That being said, the description/coverage of Dien Bien Phu was phenomenal.

3. I was always under the impression that Vo Nguyen Giap was pronounced "Vowh New-yen Jee-yaap" LOL, it's actually "Vaaowwww Nyinnn Zap". I felt like an absolute moron when I heard that and I am still kicking myself over it lol.

4. Part three discusses how Le Duan had basically marginalized Ho and Vo as early as 1963. This, IMO, vindicates my earlier argument on the limited roles of both in the ensuing war with the US.

5. I maintain that there is nothing morally wrong with the US acting in a limited way to prevent the mass shootings, collectivization of agriculture, and mass deportations that would have (and did) accompany North Vietnamese rule over the whole country. However everyone in their right mind should have known that sending in hundreds of thousands of troops was doomed to ignominious failure, the warning signs were there from the beginning.

6. McNamara is a case study in how analytics are not the answer to literally everything.

7. I hated it when that old VC dude with the jacked teeth bragged about hacking a man to death - he's a sick {!#%@} and I'm upset that he's lived this long, the VC were really no different from the SS in my opinion and this series shows it.

8. Morely Shafer was at some point not an ancient dude on 60 Minutes! Who would have thought!?!?!?!? Unbelievable!!!!!!

9. Speaking of which - you don't win hearts and minds by burning villages, I mean come on guys.........

I have yet to watch this past Sunday's episode on Tet - but I did record it. That was really the turning point of the war from a US PR perspective IIRC......

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:45 am

Jeff_36 wrote:A few observations on parts 1-4 . . . 5. I maintain that there is nothing morally wrong with the US acting in a limited way to prevent the mass shootings, collectivization of agriculture, and mass deportations that would have (and did) accompany North Vietnamese rule over the whole country. However everyone in their right mind should have known that sending in hundreds of thousands of troops was doomed to ignominious failure, the warning signs were there from the beginning.

But not Pinochet, Trujillo, the Duvaliers, Stroessner, Diem, the Shah, Marcos, Suharto, the colonels in Greece, the House of Saud, Vorster or Botha in South Africa, Erdogan today . . . nary a peep about the dirty war conducted by the junta in Argentina with Kissinger's covert support for the murders . . . how odd? So many countries to set straight, so little time, a great shame.

And this doesn't really get at the problem: "everyone in their right mind should have known that sending in hundreds of thousands of troops was doomed to ignominious failure"; time and again, US misunderstanding and devaluing of Vietnamese nationalism and anti colonialism - "the US acting in a limited way" in the country, for example, having decided not to support the Vietnamese anti colonial movement after the war - drove the Vietnamese to harder and harder positions, and strengthened the hand of the hard liners in the Communist party and in the South (leaving aside the question of the legitimacy itself of the South). And set up what eventually came to feel like an inevitability.

And yet, one of my thoughts watching the documentary - I actually don't feel like debating this again - is sadness - sadness over the number of opportunities that were lost early on and the consequences of this - and how fundamentally, in the period after WWII, the US took a position that more or less ensured the litany of lost opportunities.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeff_36
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4527
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:45 pm
Location: At the hundredth meridian, where the great plains begin

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeff_36 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:24 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:And yet, one of my thoughts watching the documentary - I actually don't feel like debating this again - is sadness - sadness over the number of opportunities that were lost early on and the consequences of this - and how fundamentally, in the period after WWII, the US took a position that more or less ensured the litany of lost opportunities.


On that I will concur 100%. They should never have saddled up with the French, and I think Ho should have been co-opted at the end of WWII. Doing so would have hopefully marginalized the likes of Le and Giap and produced a stable US ally. The fact that the US failed to respond to Ho's overtures irks me - I constantly wonder what could have been.

User avatar
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion
Poster
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Documentaries

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:46 am

I was a little shocked I didn't know about this

The Jew Who Tried Singlehandedly to Take on American Nazis

In 1939, some 22,000 members of the German-American Bund—a pro-Nazi group—flocked to a rally in Manhattan’s Madison Square Garden, ostensibly to celebrate George Washington’s birthday. Isadore Greenbaum, a twenty-six-year-old resident of Brooklyn, snuck in to hear what was being said. At some point during a speech by the Bund’s leader, Fritz Kuhn, Greenbaum became so incensed by the anti-Semitic rhetoric that he rushed the stage, yelling “Down with Hitler!” As Philip Bump recounts, he was swarmed and beaten by a group of uniformed thugs until rescued by the police, who promptly arrested him. Video footage can be seen here:

https://youtu.be/MxxxlutsKuI?t=3m45s

When the U.S. entered World War II, Greenbaum joined the Navy, in which he served for the duration of the conflict.

See also:
- Field of Vision - A Night at the Garden
https://fieldofvision.org/q-a-with-a-ni ... hall-curry

- When Nazis rallied in Manhattan, one working-class Jewish man from Brooklyn took them on, Washington Post (What a dialogue with the judge!)
https://archive.is/LzGwH
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:54 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Much as my wife and I have not liked anything by Ken Burns, we've decided to watch his 18-hour Vietnam documentary on PBS. For some of us here (ahem, the old folks), that war touches us in different but intensely personal ways.



I’ve started watching this. This is the opening song, one of my favorite Bob Dylan songs:

https://youtu.be/T5al0HmR4to

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:57 am

I gave up, actually. I really loathe Ken Burns. This made his whole Civil War thing - with its interminable Shelby Foote interviews and melodramatic voiceover - come crashing back. I should go back to it - I don't know if I will.

My favorite Dylan song is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AxfGzW7AdY

Oh, jewels and binoculars hang from the head of the mule
But these visions of Johanna, they make it all seem so cruel
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:41 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:I gave up, actually. I really loathe Ken Burns. This made his whole Civil War thing - with its interminable Shelby Foote interviews and melodramatic voiceover - come crashing back. I should go back to it - I don't know if I will.


I’m annoyed with the switching back and forth between time periods. If you are going to give me a background episode stay on target.

I’m not the biggest Bob Dylan fan, my dad was but what a song writer.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:58 am

I like Blonde on Blonde, for some reason. I saw him once and it was god-awful.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion
Poster
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Documentaries

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:24 pm

I have very mixed feelings about this, and some very uncomfortable, I have to say:

- When the Holocaust Debuted on 1950s Reality TV
https://www.thejewniverse.com/2016/when ... eality-tv/

As Holocaust survivors leave us, we can be thankful that their testimony has been recorded in hours of interviews and in memoirs. But in 1953, one of the first primary sources the American public digested was not in the pages of Night, but on prime-time television: It was the story of 32-year-old Hanna Bloch-Kohner, the first non-celebrity to appear on Ralph Edwards’s This Is Your Life, the reality series that aired on NBC radio and television from 1948 to 1961.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ckFEnn5Bo

Bloch-Kohner, born in Czechoslovakia, was arrested in 1943 and eventually sent to Auschwitz. Edwards leaves out a grisly detail she would reveal in later interviews]
https://vogcharity.org/vog/der-spiegel-article/

Upon her deportation, she was pregnant, and to survive, had a secret abortion. She listens as he describes her separation from her brother Gottfried – who later steps from behind the curtain – and the death of her first husband in the gas chambers.

Throughout Edwards’s narration — which bends toward Allied liberation and the goldene medina of America — Bloch-Kohner alternates expressions: of delight at seeing loved ones, and of profound discomfort. She puts her hands to her cheeks, touches her hair, and hugs herself. Watching from 2016, you can’t help rooting for Bloch-Kohner to tell her own story. When Edwards comes to the moment when, at Auschwitz, she hears her brother is still alive, she interrupts him, as if needing to tell the rest herself. For that minute, her life finally feels like her own.


See also:
https://www.cinema.ucla.edu/sites/defau ... TIYLv8.pdf

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:50 pm

Watching “Hitler’s Dark Charisma” on Netflix.

I read the book a couple of years ago, unfortunately I left the book in my car and my oldest son spilled something on it.

Quite amazing, if you get a chance I suggest watching it.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:31 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Watching “Hitler’s Dark Charisma” on Netflix.

Watched a lot of this last night, at my wife's suggestion - I would say that the archival footage is quite interesting but at the same time the hokey evil/hate narration, the pop psychology "theory" of charisma, and graphics of doom spoiled it for me. It felt to me as though whoever put this together was afraid that if they didn't pepper the narration with lots of "hate" and "evil," the audience would misunderstand, so they hit on familiar - and Manichean - words and concepts very hard.

I was even arsed to see if they had historian-advisers - being sure that they did - and was surprised to find Laurence Rees writing and producing the thing as I think there's a strong mischaracterization of Hitler's appeal going on throughout.

Eventually I dozed off, as I often do trying to watch TV, especially late in the evening - it just lulls me to sleep. So after dozing on and off as the war unfolded, I forced myself, somewhere deep into Russia, to wake up for real - and read some more of Griffin's book, A Fascist Century. I'll go back to the documentary, for the contemporary images and sound, which are really good, when I can stay awake.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:11 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Watching “Hitler’s Dark Charisma” on Netflix.

Watched a lot of this last night, at my wife's suggestion - I would say that the archival footage is quite interesting but at the same time the hokey evil/hate narration, the pop psychology "theory" of charisma, and graphics of doom spoiled it for me. It felt to me as though whoever put this together was afraid that if they didn't pepper the narration with lots of "hate" and "evil," the audience would misunderstand, so they hit on familiar - and Manichean - words and concepts very hard.


I’ll admit that Rees sometimes descends into overkill on the above. He did this with his Auschwitz documentary. He is a filmmaker and as such feels the need to hammer on certain points to make sure you get it. I’m not interested in dramatics, I want to learn and understand what was going on at the time.

I also understand that this was made for a mass audience so needed to keep their attention throughout. I agree the archival stuff is great so when I get a chance I’ll also continue watching. I find the film and pictures from the time period interesting. It’s also fascinating to watch Hitler speak, whatever else you can say about him he had a talent for theatrics.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:27 pm

Watching Hitler speak is really something - different time, different style expectations. The posed shots of him acting out his theatrics were so unlike contemporary sensibilities. My wife found that in the shots of Hitler he came across as coarsely ugly. Fascinating as it is to see the speeches, and rallies, the footage of ordinary life, street scenes, common people really struck me, too.

I just react badly to portrayals of the period that make out that the Nazis only pulled some kind of con or scam on behalf of something called Evil (or pathology or, in the Marxist formulation, Big Capital) and seduced Germans or fooled them. Sadly, Nazism in large part constituted a shared narrative . . . ok, climbing down off soap box now :) I will go back to vol I and then keep going. I just have to set aside the Manichean narrative - and stay awake!
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:23 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Watching Hitler speak is really something - different time, different style expectations. The posed shots of him acting out his theatrics were so unlike contemporary sensibilities. My wife found that in the shots of Hitler he came across as coarsely ugly. Fascinating as it is to see the speeches, and rallies, the footage of ordinary life, street scenes, common people really struck me, too. I will go back to vol I and then keep going. I just have to stay awake!


It helps me that I watch as I do stuff around the house.

It’s weird, I’m back to getting e-mail notifications when someone comments....that stopped a couple of months back.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:26 pm

I never set that up . . . (sorry for editing whilst you replied . . . oops!)

It's funny. I can sit and read, or write, and be fine till late in the night, but if I try to watch TV, zzzzzz. LOL
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:35 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
I just react badly to portrayals of the period that make out that the Nazis only pulled some kind of con or scam on behalf of something called Evil (or pathology or, in the Marxist formulation, Big Capital) and seduced Germans or fooled them


Yeah, that strikes me as too simple. It also annoys me when Hitler is reduced to a madman.....he wasn’t.

Trying to simplify something is a cop out, easier than delving into something.

User avatar
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion
Poster
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Documentaries

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:32 am

Since we're talking genocides in here, and since probably most of the members know about my team's work of sending Golden Dawn's members to the Court for their involvement in the Srebrenica massacre, well, here's some updates from the Greek front against the Srebrenica deniers, if someone wants to take a look.

For the occasion of Mladic's conviction, I've unearthed a very rare video from 1995, from a Greek TV show, with a now deceased famous actor and pop-rock singer Vlassis Bonatsos, who was the son in law of the prominent Greek lawyer Alexandros Lykourezos, who said he was defending Mladic against the ICTY at the time, this lawyer (in English):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gauz3xcaUc

It was a very popular TV light pop show that was aired in Greek television for many years. The actor made a favor for his father in law, and decided to make a special show for Mladic and for raising money for the Serbian elites of the time. This is December 1995 and the Sarajevo siege was not over yet. The singer traveled to Bosnia and have a nice chat with Mladic, letting him say whatever nonsense he liked, like for example that the Pope ordered NATO to bomb Serbia, with no objection at all. Just compliments, kisses, hugs and laughter.
A very prominent Greek journalist, Pavlos Tsimas, was used at the time, to give the pop show a feeling of credibility, and Tsimas is seen saying multiple times 'what a hero is Mladic', and how much we have to give money to the show for the Serbian elites of the time.

The highlight of the video is on 10.00', at the end of the interview, when the singer asks Mladic for his star-sign! It was disgusting, and thank God I saved it back in 1995 in VHS form, from which I made it digital this week.

https://youtu.be/UhvpFG01GrY

His star-sign!
That was the most important thing to know about Mladic!
What a beautiful question for the man who committed genocide just five months ago!
My team decided to publish this video just now, in order to show to my co-patriots what we were doing at the time in Greece, and I've posted online yesterday, the day of the conviction. Here's a one-minute clip with the highlights, in Greek, unfortunately:

https://twitter.com/KuKabonga/status/933304936573689856

You don't want to know the reactions. Of course, I am 'an agent of NATO and American imperialism' and I'm working for some dark agency or foreign Embassy or the Bilderberg Club or the Elders of Zion or something, I don't know.
People in Greece don't want to look at our past, when almost everyone believed that supporting the fascist and genocidal Serbian elites of the time was the right thing to do, kind of taking revenge on the Turks for what they did to us Greeks during 1821 Greek revolution.

Here is the article in Greek, of course, but maybe Google Translate with help. I think it was a great moment.

https://goo.gl/SsG6em

The original in Greek:
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/2017 ... 7-verdict/
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:16 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Much as my wife and I have not liked anything by Ken Burns, we've decided to watch his 18-hour Vietnam documentary on PBS. For some of us here (ahem, the old folks), that war touches us in different but intensely personal ways.



I’ve started watching this. This is the opening song, one of my favorite Bob Dylan songs:

https://youtu.be/T5al0HmR4to



Continuing to watch this.

A few things:

1) The archival footage is really good.

2) The interviews are very powerful, from the Vietnamese to the Americans.

3) The soundtrack is also really good.

I don’t have an issue with Burns. It’s also rekindling my interest in the time period which I’m fighting off so I don’t get sidetracked and buried under more reading material.

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6427
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am

Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:19 am

My complaint is that no real time was paid to the background, from ancient Vietnam through the French Colonial Period. The filmmakers could have spent more time on it, maybe the first episode.

I also realize that this is centered on the American involvement so they didn’t have me in mind when they made it.

User avatar
Kleon_I XYZ Contagion
Poster
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Documentaries

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:26 am

The only German concentration camp in British soil. Alderney Island, where the graves of Nazi victims were at risk of being desecrated.

- UK-France power project may put WWII graves at risk of desecration
Jewish organizations have objections.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/2017/11/ ... esecration

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Has No Life
Posts: 17369
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:19 pm
Custom Title: Dostawca - sciany tekstu
Location: still in Greater Tomainia

Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:54 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:My complaint is that no real time was paid to the background, from ancient Vietnam through the French Colonial Period. The filmmakers could have spent more time on it, maybe the first episode.

I also realize that this is centered on the American involvement so they didn’t have me in mind when they made it.

I haven't gone back to it. Neither my wife nor I can tolerate Burns . . . but we will at some point force ourselves to watch the rest of it.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817


Return to “Holocaust Denial”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest