Documentaries

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:54 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:in lieu of a more appropriate thread, I am posting this here: Alon Confino said at a conference in 2012, “you didn’t have to imagine Babi Yar if you already imagined a world without Jews . . . what we call the Holocaust was representable, was imaginable . . . somehow people had ways.” 1920s movie restored: "The City without Jews"



Aly discusses this, there were books written at that time with that theme.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:48 am

My wife and I watched Downfall tonight. A friend told me that through it all the ending is happy. I thought the movie was really good. Ganz was superb.

(I happen to be reading about the battle of Berlin in Erickson, which fit nicely.)
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:49 am

I’ve watched bits and pieces of Downfall, never the whole thing.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:49 pm

before last night, I'd only seen the various "Downfall" parodies :)
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:29 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:before last night, I'd only seen the various "Downfall" parodies :)



https://youtu.be/QSYk8ofhYFY

:D

I watched some of it when it was on Netflix, it’s not there anymore.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:34 am

that one is funny!

tonight we watched The Big Red One, with Lee Marvin and friggin' Mark Hamill, excellent movie
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:48 am

That's a blast from the past.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:14 am

waaaay baaaack LOL but quite good, another one I'd never seen . . .
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:25 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:waaaay baaaack LOL but quite good, another one I'd never seen . . .


How is it I’ve seen it before you have????

:D

The odd thing is I always enjoyed the old war movies, The Dirty Dozen, The Bridge on the River Kwai, Patton, The Guns of Navarone, etc. I used to watch them with my dad.

On the other hand, maybe they were just crap and I’m looking back on them with fond nostalgia.... :lol:
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:29 am

Lee Marvin was in The Dirty Dozen, so it was by definition not crap :)
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:32 am

Now you are putting me in the mood to watch something like that.

One I’ve never seen is “Night of the Generals,” a friend recommended it a long time ago but I never got a chance to watch it. Less of a war movie, more of a mystery.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:32 pm

I tried to watch something called “The Wannsee Conference” on Prime Video. I made better documentary films while at school, didn’t bother.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:59 pm

Was it as good as a BROI special?
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:07 pm

You know, I’ve never seen one of the rabbit’s masterpieces.

I can tell you it didn’t make me laugh like one of Eric Hunt’s messterpieces... :lol:
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:12 pm

I can recall only two of BROI's specials. One was overkill on a dubious Majdanek testimony in which he tucked a few bits of dishonest BS. The other was a short, hysterical - and thoroughly dishonest - reaction, featuring his usual docu-porn approach, to posts I made in this forum discussing Majdanek with Nessie. I might have seen others - I am pretty sure I did - but I can't recall them.

Hunt's videos were consistently terrible - they were torture to watch; I cannot imagine anyone but the faithful, and apparently Nessie, sitting through them and falling for them.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:54 pm

I only watched a little of Hunt’s crapfest videos, they alternately made me laugh and cringe.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:11 pm

Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I watched the documentary "Nazi Concentration Camps" on Netflix yesterday.
American occupation forces documented the various concentration camps as they liberated them, this movie is the result.
They talked about the following:
Hadamar (not a concentration camp)
Leipzig (camp near the town)
Penig (camp near the town)
Ohrdruff (Patton and Eisenhower documented as examining) One interesting thing documented is a grill system used to burn bodies. It's amazing how prevalent this system of burning was.
Breendonck in Belgium
Hanover
Nordhausen
Belsen
Dachau (gas chamber shown and demonstrated)
Mauthausen
Buchenwald

The images of corpses and starving prisoners still burn. Victims showed the results of torture. A US officer testified on camera about the existence of a gas chamber at Mauthausen. I know we've discussed this bit before.

There were obvious issues with this, camps were described as "death camps," a misconception understandable at the time.
I was reluctant to watch this, but, it was not bad. If nothing else it showed the conditions in the camps at the end of the war.



Night Will Fall also mentions the grill system to burn bodies.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Mca34lwgM


Also described in a letter of one of the American soldiers who entered the camp after liberation:

“As we approached this next “attraction” it looked as if someone had been digging huge holes. Nearby was a charred piece of field-perhaps twenty feet by ten in dimensions. It looks as if someone had a log fire at one time. As you get very close, though, you realize they did have a log fire, with human beings as logs. Visible are the forms of men-heads, backbones, ribs, legs, all blackened and charred. Here, too, the Germans were systematic. They constructed parallel rails, somewhat like a railroad, and placed them cross wise on this, making sure the rails were elevated so a draft would come up underneath the bodies.”

Daniel Blatman, Page 146, The Death Marches
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Adolf Hitler
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun May 06, 2018 11:34 pm

My wife and I have started watching Band of Brothers - it's only 17 years old . . . :)
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon May 07, 2018 5:44 pm

moved to proper thread!
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat May 12, 2018 12:29 pm

I have to say that Band of Brothers is really good. The action scenes are harrowing to watch but excellent.

So now a question: a friend recommended "Babylon Berlin" to me. Anyone watched it?
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:51 am

This is a cool graphic listing the German advance into the USSR in 1941.
https://mobile.twitter.com/history1history/status/1002389930369277952
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: Documentaries

Postby mark_gr » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:53 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I watched the documentary "Nazi Concentration Camps" on Netflix yesterday.
American occupation forces documented the various concentration camps as they liberated them, this movie is the result.
They talked about the following:
Hadamar (not a concentration camp)
Leipzig (camp near the town)
Penig (camp near the town)
Ohrdruff (Patton and Eisenhower documented as examining) One interesting thing documented is a grill system used to burn bodies. It's amazing how prevalent this system of burning was.
Breendonck in Belgium
Hanover
Nordhausen
Belsen
Dachau (gas chamber shown and demonstrated)
Mauthausen
Buchenwald

The images of corpses and starving prisoners still burn. Victims showed the results of torture. A US officer testified on camera about the existence of a gas chamber at Mauthausen. I know we've discussed this bit before.

There were obvious issues with this, camps were described as "death camps," a misconception understandable at the time.
I was reluctant to watch this, but, it was not bad. If nothing else it showed the conditions in the camps at the end of the war.



Night Will Fall also mentions the grill system to burn bodies.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Mca34lwgM


Also described in a letter of one of the American soldiers who entered the camp after liberation:

“As we approached this next “attraction” it looked as if someone had been digging huge holes. Nearby was a charred piece of field-perhaps twenty feet by ten in dimensions. It looks as if someone had a log fire at one time. As you get very close, though, you realize they did have a log fire, with human beings as logs. Visible are the forms of men-heads, backbones, ribs, legs, all blackened and charred. Here, too, the Germans were systematic. They constructed parallel rails, somewhat like a railroad, and placed them cross wise on this, making sure the rails were elevated so a draft would come up underneath the bodies.”

Daniel Blatman, Page 146, The Death Marches


Was the railroad cremating site he described because of typhus?

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:00 pm

mark_gr wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I watched the documentary "Nazi Concentration Camps" on Netflix yesterday.
American occupation forces documented the various concentration camps as they liberated them, this movie is the result.
They talked about the following:
Hadamar (not a concentration camp)
Leipzig (camp near the town)
Penig (camp near the town)
Ohrdruff (Patton and Eisenhower documented as examining) One interesting thing documented is a grill system used to burn bodies. It's amazing how prevalent this system of burning was.
Breendonck in Belgium
Hanover
Nordhausen
Belsen
Dachau (gas chamber shown and demonstrated)
Mauthausen
Buchenwald

The images of corpses and starving prisoners still burn. Victims showed the results of torture. A US officer testified on camera about the existence of a gas chamber at Mauthausen. I know we've discussed this bit before.

There were obvious issues with this, camps were described as "death camps," a misconception understandable at the time.
I was reluctant to watch this, but, it was not bad. If nothing else it showed the conditions in the camps at the end of the war.



Night Will Fall also mentions the grill system to burn bodies.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Mca34lwgM


Also described in a letter of one of the American soldiers who entered the camp after liberation:

“As we approached this next “attraction” it looked as if someone had been digging huge holes. Nearby was a charred piece of field-perhaps twenty feet by ten in dimensions. It looks as if someone had a log fire at one time. As you get very close, though, you realize they did have a log fire, with human beings as logs. Visible are the forms of men-heads, backbones, ribs, legs, all blackened and charred. Here, too, the Germans were systematic. They constructed parallel rails, somewhat like a railroad, and placed them cross wise on this, making sure the rails were elevated so a draft would come up underneath the bodies.”

Daniel Blatman, Page 146, The Death Marches


Was the railroad cremating site he described because of typhus?



Quite possibly, yes. Or starved prisoners.

BTW, a welcome is in order. Welcome to the forum.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:41 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Denying-History wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I watched the documentary "Nazi Concentration Camps" on Netflix yesterday.
American occupation forces documented the various concentration camps as they liberated them, this movie is the result.
They talked about the following:
Hadamar (not a concentration camp)
Leipzig (camp near the town)
Penig (camp near the town)
Ohrdruff (Patton and Eisenhower documented as examining) One interesting thing documented is a grill system used to burn bodies. It's amazing how prevalent this system of burning was.
Breendonck in Belgium
Hanover
Nordhausen
Belsen
Dachau (gas chamber shown and demonstrated)
Mauthausen
Buchenwald

The images of corpses and starving prisoners still burn. Victims showed the results of torture. A US officer testified on camera about the existence of a gas chamber at Mauthausen. I know we've discussed this bit before.

There were obvious issues with this, camps were described as "death camps," a misconception understandable at the time.
I was reluctant to watch this, but, it was not bad. If nothing else it showed the conditions in the camps at the end of the war.



Night Will Fall also mentions the grill system to burn bodies.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8Mca34lwgM


Also described in a letter of one of the American soldiers who entered the camp after liberation:

“As we approached this next “attraction” it looked as if someone had been digging huge holes. Nearby was a charred piece of field-perhaps twenty feet by ten in dimensions. It looks as if someone had a log fire at one time. As you get very close, though, you realize they did have a log fire, with human beings as logs. Visible are the forms of men-heads, backbones, ribs, legs, all blackened and charred. Here, too, the Germans were systematic. They constructed parallel rails, somewhat like a railroad, and placed them cross wise on this, making sure the rails were elevated so a draft would come up underneath the bodies.”

Daniel Blatman, Page 146, The Death Marches



From "The Liberators" :

"While the horror of a pit filled with the decomposing bodies of slave laborers is incomprehensible, Irzyk saw something worse as he continued to explore Ohrdruf. “The cadavers were stacked on a grill of logs and rails, and firemen with their spruce and pine kept the fires hot and blazing.” Later, he learned that captured SS guards had told interrogators that between December and April, perhaps two or three thousand corpses had been burned in the woods near the camp. The evidence was all around. “The ash was shin high, and the skulls were all over the place. We saw fragments of skin that had not burned.”
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:06 am

I watched the documentary Berga yesterday. I find it incredible that BroL is nitpicking the Acevedo diary over items of secondary importance. The US Army can certainly verify the hundreds of bodies these prisoners saw, shot in the back of the head along the forced march they made after the Americans closed in on Bad Orb. And the condition of the surviving prisoners, exactly like those of the other slave labor camps, is beyond question. How can all this be covered up with a smoke-screen quibble that "Acevedo didn't mention the cat soup in his diary"? He was writing a diary in a slave labor camp, and he was part of the slave labor. How much time and space did he have for detail? He wasn't writing a comprehensive report on the camp. The diary entries are almost all confined to complaints about the delay in receiving Red Cross packages, page after page of logs of the prisoners who died (most of malnutrition), and the forced marches themselves.

I was particularly interested in the fact that these prisoners were captured at the Battle of the Bulge. A very good friend who, with me, belongs to a group of seven geezers who meet for lunch every third Friday, was actually IN the Battle of the Bulge, as a medical aide. (He is now 92, and still very sharp; he's the oldest member of the group by more than a decade.) He was sent out with another aide one night in December 1944 to bring back a wounded soldier. The other aide stepped on a trip wire, and he and the soldier were killed. My friend was badly wounded and shipped back to the US, where a piece of his skull had to be removed. If not for that accident, it is likely I'd never have met this friend.

Berga was perhaps one of the minor stories of the Holocaust, lasting only a few months, but one well worth remembering. There were heroes in it, not least Acevedo (one of those Dreamers Trump wants to throw out of the US), and Hans Kasten, a second-generation German-American who spoke German and was regarded by the Nazis as being "lower than a Jew, a German who has betrayed his country."
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Upton_O_Goode » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:23 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:My wife and I watched Downfall tonight. A friend told me that through it all the ending is happy. I thought the movie was really good. Ganz was superb.

(I happen to be reading about the battle of Berlin in Erickson, which fit nicely.)


I agree. I believe this was the first actual representation of Hitler in a German movie. Of course, the satirists have gotten hold of the notorious rant scene, where Hitler's advisers have to tell him bad news. It's been seized upon by Right and Left with fictitious subtitles added to make Hitler appear to be ranting about Obamacare or all manner of things.

What was particularly chilling was the scene of Magda Goebbels forcing her children to take poison. Of course, we don't know the details of that act, so the struggles of one of her daughters to resist amount to artistic license. But the fact is not in dispute. It's a sobering reminder of the evil that comes from devotion to a charismatic leader. You watch it slack-jawed in amazement that any mother could so worship a political leader that she would murder her own children.
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:43 pm

"Operation Finale" - new movie (late August release) on the capture of Eichmann with Ben Kingsley playing Eichmann
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:35 pm

Shoah
The Criterion Collection
Box Set

Blue ray. I just wonder about the version, I will look into this more. It might be worth a purchase at some point.

Shoah (Criterion Collection) [Blu-ray] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BX49B6G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3TkyBbF7EBCC4
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Re: Documentaries

Postby landrew » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:01 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Shoah
The Criterion Collection
Box Set

Blue ray. I just wonder about the version, I will look into this more. It might be worth a purchase at some point.

Shoah (Criterion Collection) [Blu-ray] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BX49B6G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3TkyBbF7EBCC4

You're still using physical media? Can't you purchase it digitally?
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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:00 pm

landrew wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Shoah
The Criterion Collection
Box Set

Blue ray. I just wonder about the version, I will look into this more. It might be worth a purchase at some point.

Shoah (Criterion Collection) [Blu-ray] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BX49B6G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_3TkyBbF7EBCC4

You're still using physical media? Can't you purchase it digitally?


I prefer the physical media. Call me old fashioned.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Final Will and Testament

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:01 pm

It’s also only available for Blu Ray or DVD through Amazon.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
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Final Will and Testament

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:14 pm

I've been utterly unable to find it available for streaming. I think I mentioned that I purchased a set of DVD's at the Shoah Museum in the Marais which turn out to be incompatible with my ancient DVD player.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:22 pm

It’s the first time I’ve run across it for sale.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:38 pm

Who Will Write Our History?, a movie about the "Oyneg Shabes Archive, buried on the eve of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising," will have its midwestern US premiere on 16 September. The film's title uses the same question as the title of Kassow's masterful book on the Oyneg Shabes. The filmmakers will appear at the midwestern premiere, which I, alas, will miss due to travel plans which I have.
"It was still at the stage of clubs and fists, hurrah, tala"

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:55 pm

That might be worth a look. I doubt I will see it in a theater but hopefully it will show up on Netflix.
‘I have not left anybody in the dark about the fact that this time, millions of adult men would not die, and hundreds of thousands of women and children would not be burnt or bombed to death in the cities, without the actual culprit, albeit by more humane means, having to pay for his guilt.’
Adolf Hitler
Final Will and Testament


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