Documentaries

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:09 am

better than I expected - Gröning comes off not well but is oddly informative; Morris Venezia, Dario Gabbai, Henryk Mandelbaum, and other members of Sonderkomanndo are very interesting; my wife found it irritating that I could predict who'd be introduced next (here comes Joel Brand . . . oh they will be introducing Konrad Morgen here . . . and like that) and that lines I'd toss out (e.g., Posen speech) would be quoted shortly afterwards LOL - I think it is a decent introduction to the camp - when his British captors beat the {!#%@} out of Höss, my wife found it the first human and welcome moment in the series, the one thing she found understandable . . . the brothel was covered in some depth - also SS sexual assaults in the camp - stuff that's not always front and center, a lot of material on Höss . . . if you had time, you could compile criticisms (e.g., little on the Hungarian role in the deportations) but for what it seeks to be, it succeeds . . . the "marathon" was weird in that episodes were sequenced out of order . . . 1943 came after the liberation of the camp, the death marches, and Höss's hanging . . .
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:33 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:better than I expected - Gröning comes off not well but is oddly informative; Morris Venezia, Dario Gabbai, Henryk Mandelbaum, and other members of Sonderkomanndo are very interesting; my wife found it irritating that I could predict who'd be introduced next (here comes Joel Brand . . . oh they will be introducing Konrad Morgen here . . . and like that) and that lines I'd toss out (e.g., Posen speech) would be quoted shortly afterwards LOL - I think it is a decent introduction to the camp - when his British captors beat the {!#%@} out of Höss, my wife found it the first human and welcome moment in the series, the one thing she found understandable . . . the brothel was covered in some depth - also SS sexual assaults in the camp - stuff that's not always front and center, a lot of material on Höss . . . if you had time, you could compile criticisms (e.g., little on the Hungarian role in the deportations) but for what it seeks to be, it succeeds . . . the "marathon" was weird in that episodes were sequenced out of order . . . 1943 came after the liberation of the camp, the death marches, and Höss's hanging . . .


My wife doesn’t watch things like that with me. She tolerates my interests but that’s it. I get odd looks sometimes, I’ll watch stuff like that while doing stuff in the kitchen. She’ll walk in right in the middle of a filmed execution or a witness talking about gas chambers.....

I liked Rees’ book on the subject, it’s not a bad introduction to the subject, not only Auschwitz but the Holocaust in general. Rees wrote a general history on the Holocaust a couple of years ago, I don’t think I’ll get it. I have enough general histories, I’m looking to focus more on specific aspects.

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:35 am

my wife suggested watching "Einsatzgruppen: The Nazi Death Squads" on Netflix this evening; I will report back of course
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:38 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:my wife suggested watching "Einsatzgruppen: The Nazi Death Squads" on Netflix this evening; I will report back of course



I’ve seen it, as usual the actual contemporary footage is the best part.

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:44 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:my wife suggested watching "Einsatzgruppen: The Nazi Death Squads" on Netflix this evening; I will report back of course



It’s where I got the sequence for these pictures:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=28922

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:15 am

I think that this movie was discussed before; we watched only the first two segments. It's quite good. The historians interviewed are Matthaus, Browning, Ingrao, and Ioanid. Much excellent footage, including a lot unknown to me. The ten or so minutes during which a Liepaja Jew, who'd been hidden with a Latvian family, narrates the infamous Skede Beach shootings of December 1941, remarking on Strott's photographs and even giving the story of the Epstein family, shown in one of the photos, is amazing. Highly recommended. (French with English subtitles)
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:16 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:my wife suggested watching "Einsatzgruppen: The Nazi Death Squads" on Netflix this evening; I will report back of course



It’s where I got the sequence for these pictures:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=28922

Yup, just saw this after posting, that's the sequence I just posted about. Your earlier post identified the photo of the Epstein family.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:18 am

My wife says that she might puke.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:26 am

Jeffk 1970 wrote:I’ve seen it, as usual the actual contemporary footage is the best part.

It will not "prove" the extermination in the East, which isn't it's goal - however, for someone not versed in this stuff, it is a very good IMO survey; for someone who knows the history halfway well, there's a lot there, like you say in the footage; but also the details given by the local witnesses. They basically align with what I have read. It was interesting for me to see the historians, having read 2 books by Ingrao, 1 by Ioanid, several by Browning and several by Matthaus.
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:55 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:I’ve seen it, as usual the actual contemporary footage is the best part.

It will not "prove" the extermination in the East, which isn't it's goal - however, for someone not versed in this stuff, it is a very good IMO survey; for someone who knows the history halfway well, there's a lot there, like you say in the footage; but also the details given by the local witnesses. They basically align with what I have read. It was interesting for me to see the historians, having read 2 books by Ingrao, 1 by Ioanid, several by Browning and several by Matthaus.


We discussed the idea of a parallel economy growing up around areas where mass killings took place, it interested me to hear witnesses who actually took part in that parallel economy.

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:43 pm

Maybe no more watching this one with my wife: she woke up in the middle of the night last night from a nightmare - we'd gone to Second City for chrissakes (it was funny, too) - in which an Einsatzgruppen squad had, as she put it, "already killed" me. I'd been shot dead. Now, in her dream, with me whacked, the killers were coming for her with lethal injections. She woke up as Rod Rosenstein, a member of the Kommando, approached with a large syringe in his hand aimed at her chest . . . when she told me I could not help laughing even though I knew she was really rattled . . .
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:00 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Maybe no more watching this one with my wife: she woke up in the middle of the night last night from a nightmare - we'd gone to Second City for chrissakes (it was funny, too) - in which an Einsatzgruppen squad had, as she put it, "already killed" me. I'd been shot dead. Now, in her dream, with me whacked, the killers were coming for her with lethal injections. She woke up as Rod Rosenstein, a member of the Kommando, approached with a large syringe in his hand aimed at her chest . . . when she told me I could not help laughing even though I knew she was really rattled . . .


It’s hard to remain unaffected, especially when you see children standing in those lines. It helps, only a little, to remind yourself that those people are long gone and that nothing could have saved those poor souls. IMO it’s worse when you see the starving ones, those that lived long enough to make it to the hell holes the Nazis sent them to. To see the dead and see that they succumbed so close to liberation or to make it to liberation only to die, that is hard.

My wife won’t watch those with me and I won’t let my boys look. I told them when they are older I will talk to them about it or if they read about it in school I will talk to them.

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:07 pm

All true. But Rod Rosenstein with a syringe?
. . . I mean Negative Capability, that is, when a man is capable of being in uncertainties, mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason—Coleridge, for instance, would let go by a fine isolated verisimilitude caught from the Penetralium of mystery, from being incapable of remaining content with half-knowledge. - John Keats, 1817

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:08 pm

Yeah, that’s different....

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Re: Documentaries

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:42 am

“The Unseen Holocaust”

I watched this on Amazon Prime:

https://www.amazon.com/Unseen-Holocaust-Paul-Brown/dp/B074XKF4RY/ref=nodl_

It’s based on the research on Dr. Jeremy Hicks. He discusses what he found going through the old Soviet Archives.

Of particular interest was footage he found from a Soviet newsreel, it is reported to be the first recorded footage of a mass grave of Jewish victims.

I can find it for free by searching but I don’t want to provide links in fear of Russian viruses..... :D


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