"You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Holocaust denial and related subjects.
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"You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:10 am

The title of this topic is part of a denier comment I saw on youtube once. Someone mentioned Zisblatt and Peer and simillar people, then a non-denier said "just because 9 people you mentioned were liars doesn't mean that all millions of survivors are liars too", which the denier replied with "No. They are ALL liars. ALL of them are just incredibly good actors. Off course their 'testimonies' would seem genuine, the practice them on a daily basis to make sheep like you buy their lies and get money from the Holocau$t industry and the goverment of Israel. You'd be surprised how low people would go to get some Shekels".

Well, I guess he's right. Them so called Holocaust survivors are all pimpin'-rich, with {!#%@} mantions and blingin' and stuff. And yo, I mean, if Kike liars abroad get lotsa money, than-a the Kikes in Israel are probably ever richer Am I right???!!

Well, new reports today (which are published now as next week will see the Israeli Holocaust memorial day) show that out of a 100 million shekels proposed budget of state support of Holocaust survivors in Israel, only 4.3M were actually put to use in the last 4 years. Reports also show that out of 158k Holocaust survivors in Israel, around 12k don't have enough money for basic foods, 9k live deep under the poverty line, thousands have horrible living conditions (lacking basic things like a heat system for winter days) and yet are not put in state-funded eldery care housing centers, and many more don't get the health care they supposadly deserve according to the goverment itself.

Looks like "lie-witnesses" are in Israel are just not good enough actors.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:03 am

Be prepared to hear "that's just how evil they are, stealing from everyone - even each other like that". :roll:


But just think how successful the Holocaust industry and propaganda are. Considering what White House press secretary Sean Spicer said about Hitler and his qualms... :lol:

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:18 am

Do you know that in Greece, the 5.500 persons Jewish community can't even afford print their magazine, which it has been published since 1960, and now they give it only on-line? Yes, the 'powerful tycoons Jews' don't have the money to print a magazine in a few hundreds copies.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:34 pm

Kleon_I XYZ Contagion wrote:Do you know that in Greece, the 5.500 persons Jewish community can't even afford print their magazine, which it has been published since 1960, and now they give it only on-line? Yes, the 'powerful tycoons Jews' don't have the money to print a magazine in a few hundreds copies.


Well the denier answer too that would be:
Greece = bad economy = because of the EU = multiculturalism = Jews.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5Il6KQrd8
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:14 pm

Inglorious Basterds is an all time favorite.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Im_Not_Creative_Enough » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:26 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Inglorious Basterds is an all time favorite.


It is not my all time favorite, but it is the movie that I watched the most times (9, I think). As someone who wishes to become a filmmaker (yeah goodluck with that pipe dream...) in the future, this film is perhaps the best learning matrial out there. Each time I watch it, I learn something new about story crafting, direction, character building and many many other aspects.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:02 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:But just think how successful the Holocaust industry and propaganda are. Considering what White House press secretary Sean Spicer said about Hitler and his qualms... :lol:


It's still legal in the states of Arizona, California, Missouri, Wyoming, and Oklahoma, to perform capital punishment by use of chemical weapons.*

* The post-11 April 2017 revised definition of "chemical weapons" is employed here.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:37 pm

BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:But just think how successful the Holocaust industry and propaganda are. Considering what White House press secretary Sean Spicer said about Hitler and his qualms... :lol:


It's still legal in the states of Arizona, California, Missouri, Wyoming, and Oklahoma, to perform capital punishment by use of chemical weapons.*

* The post-11 April 2017 revised definition of "chemical weapons" is employed here.


I don't know about the other states but in Oklahoma the execution method is lethal injection. The last time they tried to execute two prisoners they botched it and the two men wound up in the hospital (which is somewhat ironic).

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:40 pm

According to the following site, lethal injection is the primary method used in the five states I listed, but executions can still be carried out by "chemical weapons" [revised post-11 April 2017 definition].

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution?scid=8&did=245
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:44 pm

BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:But just think how successful the Holocaust industry and propaganda are. Considering what White House press secretary Sean Spicer said about Hitler and his qualms... :lol:


It's still legal in the states of Arizona, California, Missouri, Wyoming, and Oklahoma, to perform capital punishment by use of chemical weapons.*

* The post-11 April 2017 revised definition of "chemical weapons" is employed here.

Which isn't the topic.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:46 pm

No matter what Spicer really meant and the outcome of that was, it would appear he still was wrong in saying "You had someone as despicable as Hitler, who didn’t even sink to using chemical weapons."

A quick Google search brought up this Snopes article which mentions and links to
Nazis did not use chemical weapons against American and British troops in the field, though they reportedly employed them against Russian forces at various points.


However, that's not a subject I'm very familiar with - corrections welcome.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:23 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:No matter what Spicer really meant and the outcome of that was, it would appear he still was wrong in saying "You had someone as despicable as Hitler, who didn’t even sink to using chemical weapons."

A quick Google search brought up this Snopes article which mentions and links to
Nazis did not use chemical weapons against American and British troops in the field, though they reportedly employed them against Russian forces at various points.


However, that's not a subject I'm very familiar with - corrections welcome.


It was obvious what Spicer meant, and he was correct in that matter. Idiots and opponents of the current Administration have rewritten the definition of "chemical weapons" just to take a cheap pop-shot at the man. Holocaust historians have just stood back and watched as the Holocaust was once again used as a tool to score political points.

The snopes article is, unsurprisingly, rubbish. I mean, what type of "fact checking" did they do for the alleged use of chemical weapons [old definition] in the Soviet Union, a google books search? :lol:

The Poles also made some highly dubious claims about the Germans using chemical weapons [old definition]:

Image
Meriden Record [CT], 4 September, 1939, p.1.

Perhaps snopes and other vocal opponents of the current Administration who have no qualms about rewriting definitions and using the Holocaust for political point-scoring should take a look at what FDR said 8 June 1943:

FDR wrote:Statement Warning the Axis Against Using Poison Gas.
June 8, 1943

From time to time since the present war began there have been reports that one or more of the Axis powers were seriously contemplating use of poisonous or noxious gases or other inhumane devices of warfare.

I have been loath to believe that any Nation, even our present enemies, could or would be willing to loose upon mankind such terrible and inhumane weapons. However, evidence that the Axis powers are making significant preparations indicative of such an intention is being reported with increasing frequency from a variety of sources.

Use of such weapons has been outlawed by the general opinion of civilized mankind. This country has not used them, and I hope that we never will be compelled to use them. I state categorically that we shall under no circumstances resort to the use of such weapons unless they are first used by our enemies.

As President of the United States and as Commander in Chief of the American armed forces, I want to make clear beyond all doubt to any of our enemies contemplating a resort to such desperate and barbarous methods that acts of this nature committed against any one of the United Nations will be regarded as having been committed against the United States itself and will be treated accordingly. We promise to any perpetrators of such crimes full and swift retaliation in kind and I feel obliged now to warn the Axis armies and the Axis peoples, in Europe and in Asia, that the terrible consequences of any use of these inhumane methods on their part will be brought down swiftly and surely upon their own heads. Any use of gas by any Axis power, therefore, will immediately be followed by the fullest possible retaliation upon munition centers, seaports, and other military objectives throughout the whole extent of the territory of such Axis country.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=16407

Seems that FDR was using the same definition of *weapons* as Spicer, the older, antisemitic, Holocaust denying definition.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:34 pm

Speaking of "political point scoring," it seems that it was Sphincter who went down that road. Lord knows why smooth-talking Sphincter felt it important to draw a contrast between Assad and Hitler, to Assad's detriment, in the first place and why he didn't, in the second place, simply reply that he been referring to gas warfare. Probably because he'd flummoxed himself. His follow-up on "Holocaust centers" showed a keen insight into things. Spicey left a hell of a lot on the table that day.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:53 pm

Shitty nazi analogies are ten-a-penny. I've never seen the critics of "Sphincter" [that's clever, all your own work?] getting upset when they're used by individuals or groups they aren't opposed to.

At least Spicer didn't use Donant's "Holocaust Kingdom". What phrase would you have preferred he had used in reference to the various centres where poison gas was employed to conduct what is now generally referred to as the Holocaust?
Last edited by BRoI on Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Mary Q Contrary » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:55 pm

Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:The title of this topic is part of a denier comment I saw on youtube once. Someone mentioned Zisblatt and Peer and simillar people, then a non-denier said "just because 9 people you mentioned were liars doesn't mean that all millions of survivors are liars too",

Millions of survivors? Doesn't sound like much of genocide, does it? :lol: :lol: :lol:

which the denier replied with "No. They are ALL liars. ALL of them are just incredibly good actors. Off course their 'testimonies' would seem genuine, the practice them on a daily basis to make sheep like you buy their lies and get money from the Holocau$t industry and the goverment of Israel. You'd be surprised how low people would go to get some Shekels".

Well, I guess he's right. Them so called Holocaust survivors are all pimpin'-rich, with {!#%@} mantions and blingin' and stuff. And yo, I mean, if Kike liars abroad get lotsa money, than-a the Kikes in Israel are probably ever richer Am I right???!!

Well, new reports today (which are published now as next week will see the Israeli Holocaust memorial day) show that out of a 100 million shekels proposed budget of state support of Holocaust survivors in Israel, only 4.3M were actually put to use in the last 4 years. Reports also show that out of 158k Holocaust survivors in Israel, around 12k don't have enough money for basic foods, 9k live deep under the poverty line, thousands have horrible living conditions (lacking basic things like a heat system for winter days) and yet are not put in state-funded eldery care housing centers, and many more don't get the health care they supposadly deserve according to the goverment itself.

Looks like "lie-witnesses" are in Israel are just not good enough actors.

Unfortunately, nobody has an endless supply of money. You need to make choices in life. What's more important? Providing health care to elderly Jews who have suffered so much in life or organizing yet another day to remember the Holocaust? A small room with heat and indoor plumbing where an elderly survivor can live out their last days in dignity or another Holocaust museum? Sending social workers to provide human contact for lonely survivors who saw all two thousand of their family members go through the chimney or sending the great great grandson of somebody who was a baby when their family "fled" Nazi Germany in 1934 to grammar schools to tell third graders about the horrors of the Holocaust?
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:56 pm

BRoI wrote:... "Sphincter" [that's clever, all your own work?]..

No, it was his nickname in college.

BRoI wrote:At least Spicer didn't used Donant's "Holocaust Kingdom".

?

BRoI wrote:What phrase would you have preferred he had used in reference to the various centres where poison gas was employed to conduct what is now generally referred to as the Holocaust?

One that betrayed at least the slightest familiarity with what he was talking about.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:58 pm

Mary Q Contrary wrote:
Im_Not_Creative_Enough wrote:The title of this topic is part of a denier comment I saw on youtube once. Someone mentioned Zisblatt and Peer and simillar people, then a non-denier said "just because 9 people you mentioned were liars doesn't mean that all millions of survivors are liars too",

Millions of survivors? Doesn't sound like much of genocide, does it? :lol: :lol: :lol:

What's so funny? The quantity of genocide, as you put it, would depend on what was done to those survivors and how many Jews didn't survive.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Jeffk 1970 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:59 pm

Mary's back.
Can Monstrous be far behind?

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:06 pm

SM wrote:
BRoI wrote:What phrase would you have preferred he had used in reference to the various centres where poison gas was employed to conduct what is now generally referred to as the Holocaust?

One that betrayed at least the slightest familiarity with what he was talking about.

That's not a very brave answer. He wasn't giving a lecture on the Holocaust; he was making a reference to centres where gas was used to murder.

Speaking of people with no familiarity of what they're talking about. In the Huff Post's article on Spicer's factually accurate statement, it wrote the following:

The U.S. Holocaust Museum also seemingly fact-checked Spicer in a tweet.

US Holocaust Museum ✔
@HolocaustMuseum


WATCH: Footage from our collection shows what US forces discovered when they liberated #Buchenwald.
7:30 PM - 11 Apr 2017
4,436 4,436 Retweets 3,777 3,777 likes

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/assad-hitler-chemical-weapons_us_58ed19cfe4b0c89f91221b5a

:roll:

The footage of the corpses and the medic aren't even from Buchenwald, but from the crematorium area of Dachau.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:11 pm

BRoI wrote:
SM wrote:
BRoI wrote:What phrase would you have preferred he had used in reference to the various centres where poison gas was employed to conduct what is now generally referred to as the Holocaust?

One that betrayed at least the slightest familiarity with what he was talking about.

That's not a very brave answer. He wasn't giving a lecture on the Holocaust; he was making a reference to centres where gas was used to murder.

Brave? You asked me what I thought, I replied. Spicy has consistently, on topic after topic, shown himself unable to speak clearly and knowledgeably. Many of his statements and answers are convoluted and baffling. I get the idea he's an ignoramus. This dust-up seems to be more of the same. If I were Trump, I'd shitcan him.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:14 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:... "Sphincter" [that's clever, all your own work?]..

No, it was his nickname in college.

That doesn't appear to be true. It was just a name someone who didn't like him called him.

I shudder at citing the Mail as a source, but its journalist did dig up the 1993 article, so credit where it's due:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4146020/WH-Press-Sec-Spicer-s-media-grudge-began-college.html
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Yeah, that's right, thanks for reminding me, glad to have this clarified, the college paper called him that and he took offense. He's been a doofus since college, apparently..
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:22 pm

:hmm: I blame the ginormous backlash effect of the denial movement. :mrgreen:

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:22 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Brave? You asked me what I thought, I replied. Spicy has consistently, on topic after topic, shown himself unable to speak clearly and knowledgeably. Many of his statements and answers are convoluted and baffling. I get the idea he's an ignoramus. This dust-up seems to be more of the same. If I were Trump, I'd shitcan him.

No, I asked you for your preferred phrase for the various centres where gas was used in the Holocaust.

Spicer's "Holocaust centres" and "Hitler never used chemical weapons" are complete non-issues that have been inflated and hyped by individuals who cynically use the Holocaust as a tool for bashing people they don't like.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:34 pm

Maybe it wouldn't have gotten that big without the recent history of that administration? And the fact that it is that administration with all that that entails...

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:36 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Maybe it wouldn't have gotten that big without the recent history of that administration? And the fact that it is that administration...

I agreed entirely with the second part, which makes the first part redundant.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:42 pm

BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Maybe it wouldn't have gotten that big without the recent history of that administration? And the fact that it is that administration...

I agreed entirely with the second part, which makes the first part redundant.

Ho do you interpret "that"? It could be read as "The WH" (and which was meant) or "Trump's WH".


(And I guess my late edit to that post didn't change the meaning, eh?)

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:51 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:Ho do you interpret "that"? It could be read as "The WH" (and which was meant) or "Trump's WH".

Seeing as that "that" was followed by "administration", why are you even asking when you meant Trump's Administration?

scrmbldggs wrote:(And I guess my late edit to that post didn't change the meaning, eh?)

Obviously I didn't see your late edit, but, no, it doesn't change what you meant by "that administration".
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:51 pm

BRoI wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Brave? You asked me what I thought, I replied. Spicy has consistently, on topic after topic, shown himself unable to speak clearly and knowledgeably. Many of his statements and answers are convoluted and baffling. I get the idea he's an ignoramus. This dust-up seems to be more of the same. If I were Trump, I'd shitcan him.

No, I asked you for your preferred phrase for the various centres where gas was used in the Holocaust.

And I told you, something recognizable and demonstrating awareness. I don't care beyond that.

BRoI wrote:Spicer's "Holocaust centres" and "Hitler never used chemical weapons" are complete non-issues that have been inflated and hyped by individuals who cynically use the Holocaust as a tool for bashing people they don't like.

Not by me. I've freely bashed Spicer for many, many things, not saying much about this one, I don't recall. I view Spicey's tying himself in knots over this as just another case of his ineptitude. This performance is of a piece with others.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:56 pm

BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Ho do you interpret "that"? It could be read as "The WH" (and which was meant) or "Trump's WH".

Seeing as that "that" was followed by "administration", why are you even asking when you meant Trump's Administration?

Whut?

scrmbldggs wrote:(And I guess my late edit to that post didn't change the meaning, eh?)

Obviously I didn't see your late edit, but, no, it doesn't change what you meant by "that administration".

Thanks. I guess. :-P


(Just to be clear, I meant the current administration in the first sentence, the general and formerly hallowed office in the second.)
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:57 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:No, I asked you for your preferred phrase for the various centres where gas was used in the Holocaust.

And I told you, something recognizable and demonstrating awareness. I don't care beyond that.

No you didn't. You outlined what you would accept as a phrase, yet you're still bottling sharing with us your own example.

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:Spicer's "Holocaust centres" and "Hitler never used chemical weapons" are complete non-issues that have been inflated and hyped by individuals who cynically use the Holocaust as a tool for bashing people they don't like.

Not by me. I view Spicey's tying himself in knots over this as just another case of his ineptitude.

Yes, by you, in this very thread, in your bitching over his phrase "Holocaust centres".
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:05 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Ho do you interpret "that"? It could be read as "The WH" (and which was meant) or "Trump's WH".

Seeing as that "that" was followed by "administration", why are you even asking when you meant Trump's Administration?

Whut?

Are you serious?

You wrote:

scrmbldggs wrote:Maybe it wouldn't have gotten that big without the recent history of that administration? And the fact that it is that administration...

In the context of this discussion and the timing of you post, the first "it" could only refer to the brouhaha over Spicer's comments.

scrmbldggs wrote:(Just to be clear, I meant the current administration in the first sentence, the general and formerly hallowed one in the second.)

Well, you {!#%@} up royally then, coz that's not how it reads, and such a reference to the Obama Administration doesn't even make sense.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:13 pm

BRoI wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:No, I asked you for your preferred phrase for the various centres where gas was used in the Holocaust.

And I told you, something recognizable and demonstrating awareness. I don't care beyond that.

No you didn't. You outlined what you would accept as a phrase, yet you're still bottling sharing with us your own example.

I said I don't care, something recognizable. Not a neologism that betrays that he didn't know what he was talking about.

BRoI wrote:Yes, by you, in this very thread, in your bitching over his phrase "Holocaust centres".

Hardly. I replied to a long post of yours on Spicey's difficulties and made the rather obvious point that "Holocaust centers" hadn't helped him in his predicament. The "original sin" here was his using Hitler politically, and he compounded that with not-very-swift follow-ups. And, no, I've not been, as you wrote "inflating" and hyping" this. As I said at the outset, I don't think Spincter is knowledgeable or swift enough to know how to talk his way out of the stupid place he put himself into. Or much else. And that's leaving aside his propensity to fling BS ...
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:15 pm

BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
BRoI wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Ho do you interpret "that"? It could be read as "The WH" (and which was meant) or "Trump's WH".

Seeing as that "that" was followed by "administration", why are you even asking when you meant Trump's Administration?

Whut?

Are you serious?

You wrote:

scrmbldggs wrote:Maybe it wouldn't have gotten that big without the recent history of that administration? And the fact that it is that administration...

In the context of this discussion and the timing of you post, the first "it" could only refer to the brouhaha over Spicer's comments.

Correct.

scrmbldggs wrote:(Just to be clear, I meant the current administration in the first sentence, the general and formerly hallowed one in the second.)

Well, you {!#%@} up royally then, coz that's not how it reads, and such a reference to the Obama Administration doesn't even make sense.

See, that's what I was 'afraid' of - misunderstanding. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough. And I didn't reference Obama. I spoke of The Presidency in general, The (any) WH administration in the second sentence.

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:21 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:You outlined what you would accept as a phrase, yet you're still bottling sharing with us your own example.

I said I don't care, something recognizable. Not a neologism that betrays that he didn't know what he was talking about.

You'll happily make endless amounts of posts criticising his choice of phrase yet you're too afraid to suggest a phrase of your own.

As you're too cowardly to suggest a phrase, perhaps you can detail, without using ad homs about Spicer, deniers, or unspecified others, why "Holocaust centres" is the mother of all bad phrases as a collective term for the centres where gassings occurred during the Holocaust.

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Hardly. I replied to a long post of yours on Spicey's difficulties and made the rather obvious point that "Holocaust centers" hadn't helped him in his predicament. The "original sin" here was his using Hitler politically, and he compounded that with not-very-swift follow-ups. And, no, I've not been, as you wrote "inflating" and hyping" this. As I said at the outset, I don't think Spincter is knowledgeable or swift enough to know how to talk his way out of the stupid place he put himself into. And that's leaving aside his propensity to fling BS ...

You mean the post in which you learnt of FDR's June 1943 declaration of chemical weapons, one that doesn't bode well with the new, spicy—if you will—definition of "chemical weapons".

Again, the "original sin" of "using Hitler politically" is only a "sin" when it's done by unpopular persons.

Contrast the reception to Spicer's "original sin" of using Hitler to justify bombing Syria with that of Hilary Benn's "original sin" of using Hitler to argue for Labour MPs to vote for Britain to bomb ISIS in Syria. Benn's 2 December 2015 speech was acclaimed as up there with best ever heard in the Commons.
Wednesday’s Commons debate will be remembered for Hilary Benn’s extraordinary wind-up speech, in which he powerfully (but politely) challenged his own leader and asserted Labour’s claim to be the party of activist, hard-edged internationalism. Towards the end, he compared the imperative to bomb Isis in Syria to ‘why this entire House stood up against Hitler and Mussolini’

Video on link
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2015/dec/03/hilary-benn-airstrikes-vote-speech-full-must-confront-isis-evil-video

Seems that there's "Indulgences" available for the "original sin".
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:29 pm

BRoI wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:You outlined what you would accept as a phrase, yet you're still bottling sharing with us your own example.

I said I don't care, something recognizable. Not a neologism that betrays that he didn't know what he was talking about.

You'll happily make endless amounts of posts criticising his choice of phrase yet you're too afraid to suggest a phrase of your own.

What on earth would I be afraid of?

BRoI wrote:As you're too cowardly to suggest a phrase, perhaps you can detail, without using ad homs about Spicer, deniers, or unspecified others, why "Holocaust centres" is the mother of all bad phrases as a collective term for the centres where gassings occurred during the Holocaust.

Because, as I wrote, it is a term he made up on the spot as he floundered, and raised the question if he had any knowledge about the topic.

BRoI wrote:You mean the post in which you learnt of FDR's June 1943 declaration of chemical weapons, one that doesn't bode well with the new, spicy—if you will—definition of "chemical weapons".

You are the greatest. You teach, we learn.

BRoI wrote:Again, the "original sin" of "using Hitler politically" is only a "sin" when it's done by unpopular persons.

As I told you, I have posted a lot about Spicer's BS and gaffes, not very much about this one.

BRoI wrote:Contrast the reception to Spicer's "original sin" of using Hitler to justify bombing Syria with that of Hilary Benn's "original sin" of using Hitler to argue for Labour MPs to vote for Britain to bomb ISIS in Syria. . . .

Where did I say a word about any of this?
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:42 pm

>>> What on earth would I be afraid of?
You're afraid of suggesting a phrase as a collective term for the centres where homicidal gassings occurred in the Holocaust.

>>> Because, as I wrote, it is a term he made up on the spot as he floundered, and raised the question if he had any knowledge about the topic.
That doesn't explain why you think "Holocaust centres" is such a bad phrase for the centres where homicidal gassings occurred in the Holocaust.

>>> You are the greatest. You teach, we learn.
Thanks.

>>> As I told you, I have posted a lot about Spicer's BS and gaffes, not very much about this one.
I've only seen your comments on this thread.

>>> Where did I say a word about any of this?
No one said you had, but I was documenting, with evidence, the absurdity in your assertion that it's a "sin" to *use Hitler politically*.
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:07 pm

BRoI wrote:>>> What on earth would I be afraid of?
You're afraid of suggesting a phrase as a collective term for the centres where homicidal gassings occurred in the Holocaust.

No, I answered that he would have served himself better by using a recognizable term instead of inventing one. He could have named some examples, he could have said camps, I don't know and don't care, something that wasn't simply floundering about.

BRoI wrote:>>> Because, as I wrote, it is a term he made up on the spot as he floundered, and raised the question if he had any knowledge about the topic.
That doesn't explain why you think "Holocaust centres" is such a bad phrase for the centres where homicidal gassings occurred in the Holocaust.

I told you why it was bad. Now it it your turn to quibble about quibbling.

BRoI wrote:>>> You are the greatest. You teach, we learn.
Thanks.

No need. You're brilliant and selfless.

BRoI wrote:>>> As I told you, I have posted a lot about Spicer's BS and gaffes, not very much about this one.
I've only seen your comments on this thread.

And on this thread I didn't do what you said, inflate and hype; in fact, my reply to you criticized Spicey for his being in over his head.

BRoI wrote:>>> Where did I say a word about any of this?
No one said you had, but I was documenting, with evidence, the absurdity in your assertion that it's a "sin" to *use Hitler politically*.

I used "sin" to mean that the politicization in this case, which you seem to care about inordinately, was first done by Spicer.

Obviously, my reply to you gave Spicey the benefit of the doubt. I think he's not good at his job. He spoke of gas warfare IIRC, but Assad wasn't charged AFAIK with using gas weapons against the enemy in combat but with gassing civilians.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:45 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:>>> What on earth would I be afraid of?
You're afraid of suggesting a phrase as a collective term for the centres where homicidal gassings occurred in the Holocaust.

No, I answered that he would have served himself better by using a recognizable term instead of inventing one. He could have named some examples, he could have said camps, I don't know and don't care, something that wasn't simply floundering about.

But the centres used in the T4 and Action 14f13 gassings weren't camps, so you goofed there. Perhaps you could learn a thing or two about the Holocaust from Spicer, he came up with a term on the spot, whereas you're still floundering even after having hours to think about it, and your sole suggestion was factually inaccurate.

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:>>> Because, as I wrote, it is a term he made up on the spot as he floundered, and raised the question if he had any knowledge about the topic.
That doesn't explain why you think "Holocaust centres" is such a bad phrase for the centres where homicidal gassings occurred in the Holocaust.

I told you why it was bad. Now it it your turn to quibble about quibbling.

No, you didn't, and you still haven't

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:>>> You are the greatest. You teach, we learn.
Thanks.

No need. You're brilliant and selfless.

Too kind.

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:>>> As I told you, I have posted a lot about Spicer's BS and gaffes, not very much about this one.
I've only seen your comments on this thread.

And on this thread I didn't do what you said, inflate and hype; in fact, my reply to you criticized Spicey for his being in over his head.

In fact, you did and you still are inflating and hyping the significance Spicer's references to the Holocaust as a means of denigrating the man. No reasonable person would expect chapter and verse on Hitler's gassing programme in phrase uttered by a politician during a Q&A session.

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:>>> Where did I say a word about any of this?
No one said you had, but I was documenting, with evidence, the absurdity in your assertion that it's a "sin" to *use Hitler politically*.

I used "sin" to mean that the politicization in this case, which you seem to care about inordinately, was first done by Spicer.

"First done" in the sense it had been done many, many times before, but they don't matter as you don't hold personal animosity towards the individuals who committed the "sin" prior to Spicer.
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Re: "You'd be surprised what people would do for Shekels".

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:54 pm

BRoI wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:
BRoI wrote:>>> What on earth would I be afraid of?
You're afraid of suggesting a phrase as a collective term for the centres where homicidal gassings occurred in the Holocaust.

No, I answered that he would have served himself better by using a recognizable term instead of inventing one. He could have named some examples, he could have said camps, I don't know and don't care, something that wasn't simply floundering about.

But the centres used in the T4 and Action 14f13 gassings weren't camps, so you goofed there.

Are you tedious by nature or is it something you practice? Are you trying to say that Jews weren't gassed in camps? Are you back to that?

Btw, you ignored part of what I wrote, I wrote that he could have named some examples (you do know what an example is, don't you? let me help, an example is a case and is not exhaustive or not fully precise, but also not clueless), he could have mentioned camps . . . as I said, this is important to you, not me, he could have used some examples to show he knew what he was talking about instead of babbling. Anyway, I'd have allowed him to generalize . . . depending on what he himself meant . . . which is what I said hours ago . . . but mostly I wouldn't have gone down the road he did.

BRoI wrote:Perhaps you could learn a thing or two about the Holocaust from Spicer, he came up with a term on the spot, whereas you're still floundering even after having hours to think about it, and your sole suggestion was factually inaccurate.

T-4 was part of the Holocaust? T-4 gassing sites were "Holocaust centers"?

BRoI wrote:No, you didn't, and you still haven't

Sure I did. You didn't like the answer, but I gave it.

BRoI wrote:In fact, you did and you still are inflating and hyping the significance Spicer's references to the Holocaust as a means of denigrating the man. No reasonable person would expect chapter and verse on Hitler's gassing programme in phrase uttered by a politician during a Q&A session.

Right. My point, which you've been trying to ignore.

BRoI wrote:"First done" in the sense it had been done many, many times before, but they don't matter as you don't hold personal animosity towards the individuals who committed the "sin" prior to Spicer.

"In this case," the one you were writing about.

The funny thing is that my reply said that Sean's a goofball and this was another of his {!#%@}. Pretty much the opposite of what you're reading into my replies.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927


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