Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by public

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Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by public

Postby Oozy_Substance » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:11 pm

Opening of UN files on Holocaust will 'rewrite chapters of history'

Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by public

War crimes files revealing early evidence of Holocaust death camps that was smuggled out of eastern Europe are among tens of thousands of files to be made public for the first time this week.

The once-inaccessible archive of the UN war crimes commission, dating back to 1943, is being opened by the Wiener Library in London with a catalogue that can be searched online.


So you've heard about it, right?
Is there really any new material here or is it some media fuss?

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:37 pm

Judging by some private comments I've read, it is at least partially media fuss. The extent of it remains to be seen. Maybe there will be something new.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:46 pm

As we talked previously with StatMech and JeffK, in 2015 Guardian's piece on Oskar Groening (the loyal SS who never denied nazism but denies ... denial to the deniers)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ ... -auschwitz

... there's a link to a sample of these UNWCC files, with 37 original pages, probably from Plesch's work, since I see a 'SOAS' logo up right on the first page.
http://www.unwcc.org/wp-content/uploads ... uments.pdf

Plesch is the director of the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at Soas in the University of London and has a book as we can read here:

Access to the vast quantity of evidence and indictments is timed to coincide with the publication on Tuesday of Human Rights After Hitler: The Lost History of Prosecuting Axis War Crimes by Dan Plesch, a researcher who has been working on the documents for a decade.


I'm curious about this:

The documents record the gathering of evidence shortly after the UN was founded in January 1942. They demonstrate that rape and forced prostitution were being prosecuted as war crimes in tribunals as far apart as Greece, the Philippines and Poland in the late 1940s, despite more recent suggestions that this was a legal innovation following the 1990s Bosnian conflict.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby NathanC » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:41 am

I'm curious about the Philippines as well.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Kleon_I XYZ Contagion » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:10 pm

Ben Barkow, the library’s director, said Mr Plesch’s findings may not change the general understanding of the Holocaust, but were interesting and had significance to scholars.

He said Mr Plesch had doggedly continued to search a difficult-to-access archive that most scholars had assumed contained nothing new. “People didn’t recognise the value of it,” he said.

He said the material uncovered by Mr Plesch was particularly interesting because it showed that 70 years ago, the international community was considering the issue of sexual crimes as part of the broader war crimes narrative. He said: “It shows that this was not something that was only thought about after events like Rwanda.

Plesch told the Independent that the archival material amounted to a “cartload of nails to hammer into the coffins” of Holocaust denial.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 88036.html

“The major powers commented [on the mass murder of Jews] two-and-a-half years before it is generally assumed,” Dan Plesch, author of the newly published Human Rights After Hitler, told The Independent.

“It was assumed they learned this when they discovered the concentration camps, but they made this public comment in December 1942.”

Mr Plesch, a professor at the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy at SOAS University of London, said the major powers began drawing up war crimes charges based on witness testimony smuggled from the camps and from the resistance movements in various countries occupied by the Nazis. Among his discoveries were documents indicting Hitler for war crimes dating from 1944.

Image

In late December 1942, after the US, UK and others issued a public declaration about the Jewish slaughter, UK Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden told the British parliament: “The German authorities, not content with denying to persons of Jewish race in all the territories over which their barbarous rule extends, the most elementary human rights, are now carrying into effect Hitler’s oft-repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people.”

Mr Plesch said that despite the collection of evidence and the prosecution of hundreds of Nazis – a judicial process that has been overshadowed by the trial of the Nazi leadership at Nuremberg – the Allied Powers did little to try and help those in peril. He said efforts by President Franklin D Roosevelt’s envoy to the United Nations War Crimes Commission (UNWCC), Herbert Pell, were pushed back by anti-semites in the US State Department.

Mr Pell would later claim that individuals within the State Department were concerned that America’s economic relationship with Germany after the war would be damaged if such prosecutions went ahead. After Mr Pell went public with the scandal, the State Department agreed to the prosecution of the Nazi leadership at Nuremberg, something that gathered pace after the highly publicised liberation of the concentration camps in the summer of 1945.
According to experts and scholars, the 10 stages of every genocide are
Classification Symbolization Discrimination Dehumanization Organization Polarization Preparation Persecution Extermination
... and finally the 10th stage:
Denial
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocide/t ... ocide.html

XYZ Contagion (‘Because the truth is contagious‘), an investigative/research political and historical website, deals also with the Srebrenica Genocide
https://xyzcontagion.wordpress.com/about/#English

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:49 pm

> “It was assumed they learned this when they discovered the concentration camps, but they made this public comment in December 1942.”

This guy seems relish in building strawmen. Assumed by whom? The public comment is well-known too - because it was public - so how is this news? It is also known what the USSR knew, they were preparing a detailed statement on the murder of Jews in 1942 (incl. a mention of HCN gassings), but then simply added their sig to the allied statement and their own detailed statement remained unpublished.

And how exactly does this disprove denial? Deniers reject state claims.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:03 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:It is also known what the USSR knew, they were preparing a detailed statement on the murder of Jews in 1942 (incl. a mention of HCN gassings), but then simply added their sig to the allied statement and their own detailed statement remained unpublished.

I didn't know this, thanks. I knew that they'd joined Allied statements but not that they had this sort of draft unreleased.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:05 pm

Lev Bezymensky published it in his Wallenberg book. The underlying NKVD report (even more detailed, I presume) by Sudoplatov is apparently unpublished (I only saw an excerpt).

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby NathanC » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:35 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:And how exactly does this disprove denial? Deniers reject state claims.


It undermines one of the fundamental assumptions of denial. Holocaust denial rests on the assumption that there was a "hoax"; a plot by Jews and the allies to Fabricate the Holocaust for whatever reason. The article if not the actual evidence proves this didn't happen. Kleon for example cites a passage talking about American antisemites in the state department blocking the intel about the Holocaust. I know it also talks about how the Allies' fear of communism made them hesitant to prosecute Nazis. Thus, reality was the opposite of the hoax Deniers allege, which disproves denial.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:05 pm

This doesn't disprove the hoax though, in the minds of the deniers it's all propaganda, whether it started in 1945 or 1942. Besides the thesis that this propaganda started near the end of the war is repeated mostly by twitter chimps. The likes of Mattogno have been using the early sources for years now and are as non-plussed by them as you can imagine. I don't see what info about state actions should come out to make the deniers believe in what the govts said, even internally. Antisemites' resistance will be met with an appeal to the new-fangled (and old as dirt) deep state CT: some parts of the govt were yet free from the, ahem, influence, but the, ahem, Jared Kushners of that period won the day.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby BRoI » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:43 pm

Here's one item that I hope to find in it [or at least its serial number]:

I also appeared before the United Nations War Crimes Commission, which is composed of representatives of the United Nations, and of which Sir Cecil Hurst, the legal advisor of the British Government, is chairman. I told them what I had seen in the Warsaw ghetto and the Belzec death camp. My testimony was placed on record and I was told that it will be used as evidence in the United Nations indictment against Germany.

- Jan Karski, Story of a Secret State, 1944 edition, p.384.


Karski was in the US c.July-August 1943, but was back in the UK in September apparently.

The UNWCC first convened officially on 11 January 1944.

Karski had plenty of time to meet with the UNWCC before the late-November 1944 release of his book.

His testimony should be easier to locate now. I spent a day in January blindly looking through TS 26 files in hope of finding some sort of list of exhibits/received reports. I didn't actually know that any listing was effectively restricted then.

The minutes of the UNWCC have been freely available for years in TS 26/67 and FO 800/921. The Far East division minutes are available in the British Library: Asian and African Studies. An enormous amount [all?] of UNWCC docs [from the London collection] were transferred to the PRO ages ago, but up until now there's never been any publicly available finders guide.

See pdf linked at bottom of the page: http://wiener.soutron.net/Portal/Defaul ... ndex/92681

Sounds very interesting.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Balsamo » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:13 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:This doesn't disprove the hoax though, in the minds of the deniers it's all propaganda, whether it started in 1945 or 1942. Besides the thesis that this propaganda started near the end of the war is repeated mostly by twitter chimps. The likes of Mattogno have been using the early sources for years now and are as non-plussed by them as you can imagine. I don't see what info about state actions should come out to make the deniers believe in what the govts said, even internally. Antisemites' resistance will be met with an appeal to the new-fangled (and old as dirt) deep state CT: some parts of the govt were yet free from the, ahem, influence, but the, ahem, Jared Kushners of that period won the day.



Absolutely,
the core "logic" of Holocaust denial is that there are no proofs - witnesses are liars, confessions were obtained under torture or extortion, documents are faked, and so are pictures.
Deniers have been attacking any form of proofs that the IMT - show trial by itself - has produced, to a point there have nothing left to attack.

Actually, my fear is that those "new proofs" will just give them a new kick, a boost to their activities.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:47 pm

IMT was a show trial in the sense that it had a supplementary goal of giving a lesson, so to say. However what one usually means by a show trial is a staged trial, and IMT was no show trial in that sense. Just a point of order ;)

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Balsamo » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:09 am

LOL..
I was describing the Denier's point of view, insisting that the IMT has produced massive elements of evidence on which focused the Deniers for decades. For this reason, the IMT was one of their favorite targets.
Whatever one might think of the IMT and its methods, its documentary role - that is gathering and classifying documents - has been amazing.
Butts - IIRC as it's been a long time i have not read this {!#%@} - essentially focused on the IMT in an effort to nullify everything that might have come out of it, including the documents and evidences.

I have often written that Deniers have never left the courtroom and never felt concerned by decades of progress in historical research.
And so seems to have the journalists and some of their readers. What a title "The Allies knew 2 years before the discovery of the camps!" no kidding!

Any, my point was that after several decades, Revisionism basically went to the limits of its logic, without any achievement.
Those files therefore present the risk to reveal some dubious "proofs" - like Karski's description of Belzec - that will re-joy CODOH tired lunatics who would just love some "free meals", while the possibility that it "revolutionizes the History of the Holocaust" seems very limited to me (to be polite).

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:21 am

>> Those files therefore present the risk to reveal some dubious "proofs" - like Karski's description of Belzec - that will re-joy CODOH

Let them. I think any concern about this is overblown - Karski in Bełzec is a denier obsession, not a key element of the explanation of and evidence for Einsatz Reinhard. (Underground documents which Karski carried to the Allies are different to his "Bełzec" visit.) E.g., Silberklang never mentions Karski, nor does Bryant. Cesarani casts doubt, in an aside, on whether Karski ever visited Bełzec. Deniers whooping and hollering: it's what they do.

I think we could safely conclude, in addition to saying "Deniers have never left the courtroom," that, unless they are defendants for assault or whatnot, deniers have not really ventured into courtrooms and the legal arena.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Xcalibur » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:37 am

"Deniers have never left the courtroom," we can say that, unless they are defendants for assault or whatnot, deniers have not really ventured into courtrooms and the legal arena.


I took this to mean that they've never abandoned the idea that they can create "reasonable doubt" as to all the evidence rather than a literal litigation of same.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:40 am

Me too, and I agree . . . I just find interesting how clueless deniers are about legal process, what goes on in courtrooms and how to evaluate trials.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:49 am

Reading the Göth case I noticed that the Polish typists had a trouble differentiating between Belzec and Belzyce. Has the possibility that Karski visited the transit ghetto at Belzyce rather than Izbica ever been considered? Because that might explain the confusion.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:37 am

I see that it was Engel's hypothesis that preceded Izbica.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Darren Wilshak » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:47 am

There was a thread discussing the matter recently:

We concluded that he visited a camp, it wasn't Belzec or Izbica.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27414&hilit=Karski

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:03 am

Belzyce seems like an option then.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Balsamo » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:59 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:>> Those files therefore present the risk to reveal some dubious "proofs" - like Karski's description of Belzec - that will re-joy CODOH

Let them. I think any concern about this is overblown - Karski in Bełzec is a denier obsession, not a key element of the explanation of and evidence for Einsatz Reinhard. (Underground documents which Karski carried to the Allies are different to his "Bełzec" visit.) E.g., Silberklang never mentions Karski, nor does Bryant. Cesarani casts doubt, in an aside, on whether Karski ever visited Bełzec. Deniers whooping and hollering: it's what they do.

I think we could safely conclude, in addition to saying "Deniers have never left the courtroom," that, unless they are defendants for assault or whatnot, deniers have not really ventured into courtrooms and the legal arena.



I know, we spoke about this report in some thread here.
Of course it is not a key element, and this is why i suspect that among those files, one will find other "not a key element" kind of "proofs.

Anyway, the articles i have read about it are really "much ado about nothing", not far from being plain stupid. Nothing new here.

Xcalibur:
I took this to mean that they've never abandoned the idea that they can create "reasonable doubt" as to all the evidence rather than a literal litigation of same.


Exactly, thanks.
I was really searching for my words, last night.
Precisely what i wanted to say.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:48 pm

Balsamo wrote:. . . really "much ado about nothing", not far from being plain stupid. Nothing new here.

But you raised the specter of new findings in this material: "Those files therefore present the risk to reveal some dubious 'proofs'" . . . I'm confused, is there new material risking revelation of dubious proofs or nothing new here?

I haven't read where the files have been compared to previously released ones and/or the information in these files has been correlated to what we know. I reserve judgment.

Balsamo wrote:Xcalibur:
I took this to mean that they've never abandoned the idea that they can create "reasonable doubt" as to all the evidence rather than a literal litigation of same.

Exactly, thanks.
I was really searching for my words, last night.
Precisely what i wanted to say.

As I clarified above, I was making a different, or additional, point: much as they like using legal materials and proceedings to raise doubts, deniers I've read have shown little competence in this arena.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Balsamo » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:38 pm

Statmec:

But you raised the specter of new findings in this material: "Those files therefore present the risk to reveal some dubious 'proofs'" . . . I'm confused, is there new material risking revelation of dubious proofs or nothing new here?


I meant that there are maybe more such testimonies (like Karkis') from the same time (42), which had not surfaced before, but could present the same "approximations", which could provide some food for our bored deniers.
Now, for those who have studied those issues, there will be nothing new, as there is already a knowledge about the dissemination of those early information about the massacre of the Jews, something that those journalists seem not to be aware of when they write that "the Allies knew 2 years before discovering the camps" (lol), and something those same journalist believe their readers did not know neither.

What i meant is that those earlier information leaking from Poland and the East were rightfully taken with caution by the Allies, and even by some Jewish organizations. So some of us know about them, their nature and how they reached the West, but we also know that they are not "key elements" of our knowledge about the genocide, as you pointed out about Karski.

My position being that i am not sure we need a couple of more Karski-like documents, even less that by revealing them one would somehow "revolutionize" the "History of the Holocaust".

Hence my somewhat confusing words: More documents like this would kind of revive Denier's activity on documents presented as impòrtant by the press, read by uninformed people, and exposed those uninformed people to new offensives by Deniers, while at the same time those documents would be nothing conclusive or new for informed people.

I have expressed my suspicion based on the articles i have read, it is indeed wise to wait for those files to be released before pronouncing a definitive judgment, of course.

As I clarified above, I was making a different, or additional, point: much as they like using legal materials and proceedings to raise doubts, deniers I've read have shown little competence in this arena.


And a very good additional point, indeed. Well those guys are not Historians, i would not even expect that the vast majority of them would be jurists. ;) Certainly not among those who used to post on this forum.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:57 pm

It's awfully warm due to the hot air being vented on this thread.

I've been after this Karski testimony for a while because I hope it will go someway to settling the debate as to where Karski originally claimed he went, and if he ever modified his story as the *Ghetto Speaks article represents his original version* people claim.

If it still exists, I don't think it will be any different to the version he first transmitted from Lisbon, which was the one he told Koestler, the one he wrote in his 1944 book, the same one he frustrated Hilberg and Lanzmann with, and the one he retold for the final time in the 1999 Polish edition of his book.

Why on earth this would fuel denialism?
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Balsamo » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:11 pm

BRoI:

Why on earth this would fuel denialism?


I did not say fuel, i said revive (give them a new impulse, a boost.
Anyway, it already started.

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11079


Sorry for the copyright, but Hannover just declared:
This should be entertaining.


:lol:

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Statistical Mechanic » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:24 pm

Balsamo wrote:I meant that there are maybe more such testimonies (like Karkis') from the same time (42), which had not surfaced before

Right - and that's what confused me, because then saying "nothing new" doesn't make sense.
"World peace is certainly an ideal worth striving for; in Hitler's opinion it will be realizable only when one power, the racially best one, has attained complete and uncontested supremacy. That can then provide a sort of world police, seeing to it at the same time that the most valuable race is guaranteed the necessary living space. And if no other way is open to them, the lower races will have to restrict themselves accordingly."

- Rudolf Hess, letter, 1927

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:59 pm

Balsamo wrote:BRoI:

Why on earth this would fuel denialism?


I did not say fuel, i said revive (give them a new impulse, a boost.

You know full well that in this context "fuel" is synonym of both those terms.

Balsamo wrote:Anyway, it already started.

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11079


Sorry for the copyright, but Hannover just declared:
This should be entertaining.


:lol:

Hannover's a sad clown. He demands that docs be put online for viewing, but when they are [such as many of the Nuremberg interrogations], he claimed it was just a hoax and refused to even look at them.
https://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?p=82304#p82304

Hannover and his ilk will never bother going to the Wiener Library or USHMM to look at the UNWWC records as it would involved some actual effort. Even if if the records were put online [which they should be IMO], odds are that Hungover wouldn't even bother looking through them. He's yet to produce any previously unknown information in his decades long career as an online denier.
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Sergey_Romanov » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:14 pm

Mr. KL Vershiedene, albeit a learned assistant librarian, is more of a writer than a reader (as a Russian joke goes).

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby BRoI » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:43 pm

Sergey_Romanov wrote:Mr. KL Vershiedene, albeit a learned assistant librarian, is more of a writer than a reader (as a Russian joke goes).


That made me recall a memorable part of the film Quills about the Marquis de Sade.

THE MARQUIS:
You can't--! You mustn't--! I've all
the demons of hell in my head; my only
salvation is to vent them on paper--

COULMIER:
Try reading, for a change. The writer
who produces more than he reads? The
sure mark of an amateur.

http://www.screenplay.com/downloads/scripts/Quills_Script.pdf
"... these witnesses would swear to anything if it gets the Germans killed."
- Solomon Surowitz, Assistant Prosecutor at the 1947 Buchenwald trial.

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Re: Archive used in prosecution of Nazis reveals detailed evidence of death camps and genocide previously unseen by publ

Postby Xcalibur » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:36 am

Balsamo wrote:BRoI:

Why on earth this would fuel denialism?


I did not say fuel, i said revive (give them a new impulse, a boost.
Anyway, it already started.

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11079


Sorry for the copyright, but Hannover just declared:
This should be entertaining.


:lol:



Not nearly so entertaining as reading Hannover. :lol:


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